I have a '01 Qx4. I love this car except for a few things.
1. Gas mileage. I know its winter and all but 13 MPG in city and 16 hwy? 2. Wind noise from roof while on hwy 3. Running boards that get the back of your pants every time you exit. 4. Slow CD changer
Most vehicles have some drawbacks in one way or another. Its up to you to decide witch ones you can live with.
By the way I bought my Qx4 in Richmond B.C. (Canada) under 2 hrs. from Seattle. I paid 31,500 for my fully loaded titanium Qx4 plus around $900 duty at the US border. It's well worth the trip but they didn't want my US trade. The dealer said it would have to go through customs in Canada to make sure it meets their safety standards. Not worth it.
My friend bought a Jeep GC w/ the 4.7 V8. How does he beat me every time we race and get better gas mileage with a motor that is 1.2 liters larger??
Could I get some feed back on what your MPG is?
To all the people who can not decide between a Qx4 or a PF. All I have to say is drive both of them. Then go to Canada and buy one!
Just wanted to comment on an someones comment that with Infiniti's promotional 3.9% apr. you couldn't negotiate price. I just got a great price on a new Infinity AND I got the 3.9%. I had to walk off the lot twice, but finally got the deal I wanted. I pick it up Saturday.
I had posted previously about a blow out but have come to find the news is much worse. After hitting a relative small pot hole, the wheel actually bent causing the tire to go flat. So, it's an $800 tire/wheel replacement. I'm kind of disappointed that my big tough truck crumbled under one little pot hole. Beware!
Still no progress with my case. The eastern region office last week asked me to fax them the appraisal that shows that I have lost a ton of value as a result of the weld problem. They told me that they are looking at possible resolutions, but so far nothing....
I am a bit alarmed to see that Nissan is answering people who e-mail them with a form letter e-mail that says I am not presenting all of the relevant facts on my site. I wonder what I am supposedly leaving out.
What I can't understand is this: Several dealers around the country have told me that Infiniti should have taken the vehicle back as soon as a loose frame weld was evident. The guy in the eastern region office laughed when I told him this. I don't know why I am being disrespected like this. It's really disconcerting that nothing's happening in the face of such obvious evidence.
Looks like I am going to have to get my attorney involved.
How would you like Infiniti to treat you if you were in my shoes?
It has the premium and sports package, sunroof, rear wind deflector,and some dealer add-ons such as brush guards, clear mask, wheel locks. 37,800. I live in Colorado. With the 3.9, I think I made a fair deal.
I've considered trading my PF (older engine) for a new Qx4, but I see they "require premium" and many of you talk about bad mpg. Is everyone using premium or is the bad mpg, caused by using lower octane?
Well, I am sad to say that I must push forward with legal means to get the refund that I have been pursuing. I hope that readers of this board will keep my situation in mind when considering a vehicle purchase.
Last week, the Eastern Region Office Parts & Service Manager, David Hart, asked me to fax the appraisal that showed my vehicle as having possible frame damage and a very low market value because of it. I did this, and waited several days for a response. I had hope that someone reasonable would be dealing with my case and would see the obvious problems.
After a few days of not getting my calls returned by Mr. Hart, I called this morning and caught him in the office. He put forth this proposal:
He wants me to take my vehicle to a dealership and meet with the service manager and tech rep to look at my vehicle and set some timetables to fix these concerns. He specifically mentioned the damage done to the dash and said how he could tell from the pictures that it detracted from the vehicle.
I asked him whether a repurchase negotiation would be part of this meeting. He told me that it would not be- and asked if I was surprised.
This is an insult! I sent them final repair requests, and they waived that by telling me I had no problems. NOW they want another chance to try to fix the vehicle??
I was angered and asked whether the technical person would be qualified to assess what kind of diminished value resulted from the repairs to the loose weld. He told me that probably no one employed by Infiniti was qualified to judge soemthing like that. WOW- that directly contradicts what the dealership and Consumer Affairs office told me back in October- that the repair had no effect on the value!
Mr. Hart tried to argue that he was addressing the concerns I had come to him with. I countered by stating that I had come to him with the firm position that I am seeking a refund. I again asked whether Infiniti intended to buy the vehicle back. Mr. Hart told me no.
I cannot believe that after all of this Infiniti thinks its "proposal" to look at my vehicle to fix it is adequate. It seems ridiculous that it took them over a week to decide to make this "offer." I have already suffered through enough repairs with this lemon, one that has problems I am told cannot be fixed, and Infiniti wants to initiate more repairs.
Remember, back in December Consumer Affairs told me that they were gathering financial information and were considering repurchasing my vehicle. Every time I have asked Mr. Hart about this he quickly changes the subject. I really feel that I am being treated in a neglectful and unethical way.
tclub, thats what i did. replace a 98pathfinder (old engine) with a 01QX4 mainly for the engine.
the milage that you have on the old engine is just as bad as what you will be getting. even the old engine is known for the horrible gas milage. but at least you get some extra power as a trade of now. reason is its a different familty of engines VQ same as the maximas but with bigger displacement 3.5L. i haven't calculated exact figures yet but its about the same fuel consumption...pathy sucked 16L/100kms)
so if you are happy with the way your current car is doing....fuel is not a new issue.
regarding premium fuel. i use the regular 87 octane. the engine has knock sensors that will retard the timing to prevent detonation. so no harm, the sensor will retard the timing. only problem would be a loss if performace. i don't notice it....its one hell of a powerfull engine.
its the same engine as my 95 maxima which has been running on 87 octane gas for 170,000kms. problem free. (they recomend premium 92+ octane)
they design cars with higher compression to get more power out of an engine of the same displacemt. higher compression requires higher octane fuel. but they also have the knock sensors.
you'll get varying opinions about prem/regular fuel....but regarding the bad on gas matter. yours is just as bad.
thanks for qx4's info on using 87 octane. as long as i don't mind the loss of a little performance will the retarded timing have any long-term effect on the engine?
Yes, it will. The constant retardation of the ignition (among other things that the engine computer does to compensate for the lower octane) will not only produced lower fuel economy - hence negating the lower cost of regular vs. premium fuel - but will prematurely wear out your engine.
The occasional tank of mid-grade or regular now and then is okay, but I wouldn't do it continuously.
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The more I read about this case--I am buying a Acura MDX. Same price and won Motor Trend Car of the Year. If a dealer and corporation cannot settle this single case any better than what they have they are getting an instant bad reputation when someone really has a problem. It is easy to fix the little problems--when you have a big problem that is when you can tell the true attitude of the corporation. Why would a multi-million dollar corporation put any consumer through this??? Go to your local TV stations and see if their consumer affairs reporter will help you. Bad Press may be the only thing that motivates them to act responsibly. What a shame!!!! Even if we only know one side of the story--the consumers--I would think they would settle just to get an unhappy customer on down the road and everybody could move on.
When I was monitoring the Acura boards I recall a few nasty incidents like this also. I still think Acura is a good "corporation". I agree that the MDX is a pretty great effort on Acura's part (I guess I'm biased because I own a 2001 Honda Odyssey EX which is the same platform, and I love it). One of the things that scares me about it is the fact it's a first model year (the 1999 Odyssey is really feeling the "first model year blues" with a number of recalls and a very unHonda-like reliability record). I also caught its review on Car and Driver television where they raved about its highway manners but completely trashed it on its off-highway performance mentioning that a "well-graded gravel road" or something to that effect was the most difficult offroading you should throw at it. Neither of these is an issue with the QX4. Just my $0.02.
I bought a QX-4 this week. I would have preferred the MDX, but I needed a new vehicle fairly quickly, and I saved several thousand $$ over a similarly equipped MDX, mainly due to the fact that MDX's were selling at list, while I got my QX-4 at about $700 over invoice, which was about $500 lower than Edmund's FMV. I did not read this message board until this weekend, so I was surprised at Lemon guys problems. Even if he were just a whiner/complainer/perfectionist (not saying he is), I would think that Infiniti would just give him a new vehicle just to stop the bad publicity. My wife and I are exceptionally pleased with our QX-4 so far. It represents a night/day difference from the Explorer that we also drive. Much smoother ride, much more acceleration. Climate control is great, we like the automatic seat position adjuster as well. I have not noticed any vibrations, squeaks or noises, which by the way are rampant on our 3 y.o. Explorer. However, I will keep an ear tuned for such irregularities as I drive around this week. Negatives: Upon reading the owners manual, I was also annoyed at the need for premium octane fuel. The gas mileage is bad enough. My wife was somewhat miffed at me for paying so much for a vehicle. We had been looking at a Mazda Tribute, Honda CRX, Ford Escape as our second vehicle, but I came into some extra cash (sold a rental property that I bought and lived in when I was single) and moved up to a vehicle $10K - $15K more expensive. In addition to the MDX, we also looked at the RX-300 and the Land Rover Disco II. The RX-300 does not accomodate our dogs. That is, the rear cargo space is miniscule. We both liked the Land Rover, but decided against it due to poor power and spotty reliability. We actually do a little lite off-roading, for which the Disco would be nice, but we've still got our Explorer for that. Needless to say, my wife finally got a chance to drive the QX-4 yesterday, and now doesn't want to have anything to do with the Explorer. Reading some of the other message boards for MDX, RX-300 and Disco II, it seems that those owners are very satisfied with their vehicles and want to share there joy with other owners. A sense of joie de esprit, perhaps. Even the Disco owners seem rabidly faithful to their choice, in spite of various weak points. I do not sense that here on this board. I haven't read too far back, but it appears that most of this board is dominated by Lemon guy and a discussion of his situation. I see some positive testimonials from satisfied QX-4 owners, but I would like to hear more commentary to see if Lemon guy is more of an isolated incident, or a tip of the iceberg. You all who have just bought QX-4's, what are your experiences thus far??
Could not have been happier with this 01 QX4 detailed comments about my experience can be read if you go further back in the messages
i give this car 100 out of 100 the ONE and ONLY week point would be the fuel economy. and by the way...i am a very picky person when it comes to cars and mechanical designs in general. i am also a very picky person when it comes to customer service....and they've managed to keep my experience to the best possible ppoint.
enjoy yours had mine for about 3 months now ialso had a 98LE which ran problem free perfect satisfaction with nissan/infiniti so far.
i would have to say that the lemon case is an insolated incident and i never judge a case by looking at the facts from one side of the battle.
I have been extremely happy with it. Fit, finish, quality and performance have exceeded my already high expectations after having owned a 99.5 PF LE. With most of the differences between the QX4 and the PF LE being a few (albeit very enviable) creature comforts, a very good barometer of the quality, dependability and ownership experience can be found on the Pathfinder boards. Over there you'll find an overwhelming majority of extremely satisified owners of the 2001 Pathfinder.
You guys don't know how I wish that I was singing with the chorus of satisfied voices. I thought I was really rewarding myself by buying the QX4.
Unfortunately I have a lemon, and feel it's my duty to keep the board posted with what happens. In dealing with Infiniti Consumer Affairs and Corporate, I have only talked to one person that I felt really cared about me as a customer. Too bad that this is the western region manager- I am in the east. He actually told me that he tried to get information on my case and was told to butt out! As for the people I have dealt with who can make decisions in my case, I am constantly frustrated. How would you feel if someone insisted that your car was found to be problem-free on a date that they never looked at it??
I am not saying that all Infiniti QX4's are lemons. Mine happens to be, and I'm just pointing out how they are treating me. Statistically, most people should be happy with their vehicles. But what happens when you are the unlucky guy who has problem after problem? This is the true test of the character of the company.
I plan to update my site soon with another letter they sent me, and the appraisal that shows "possible frame damage." It's not possible for me to present both sides of the story, but I think their behavior speaks for itself. It's troubling that they are sending e-mails to people saying that I am not presenting all of the facts. I have asked them a few times now what they think I am leaving out, and they won't respond.
I wouldn't be complaining if my problems had been resolved. Months ago I told them I would be happy with a new QX4 - after all I've been through I don't think they deserve another chance from me. Seeing as how many many people have expressed interest in how this situation is resolved, I will continue to update regularly. Hopefully soon I can spend my time in better ways.
We are contemplating making an SUV purchase and have narrowed the search to these two. I wonder if anyone has additional information on the comparison between these SUV's. The service Infinity will provide for the life of the car is certainly a compelling factor but I want to check with other folks to see if there is additional data to review.
Today I sent an e-mail to Infiniti setting forth some conditions to their proposed meeting which I believe are reasonable and common-sense. I am willing to give Infiniti another chance to look at the vehicle to aid them in responding to my demand for a refund. I am not meeting with them to discuss any repair options.
I also just received some very interesting e-mail from a television producer interested in doing a story. If Infiniti is content to let this drag on, it is my duty to let other consumers know what has happened to me.
I agree that Nissan/Infiniti should buy back infiniti_lemon's QX4. Although Nissan/Infiniti builds reliable and dependable vehicles (I won a 2001 PF LE with no problems), they are not immune to have one or two bad apples. And if a consumer does get a bad apple, Nissan/Infiniti should just buy it back from the consumer.
I feel fortunate that I am not in infiniti_lemon's situation. If I were, I'd probably be doing the same things infiniti_lemon is doing. I am really surprised in the manner in which Nissan/Infiniti is handling this case. It's a bit shameful, especially since they are trying to win consumers back to their side.
infiniti_lemon, I think that the suggestion of invoking bad publicity via local TV networks is a good idea. No one wants bad publicity, it may just tip the odds in your favor. Good Luck, I feel for you.
The biggest differences you will find between the Infiniti and the Jeep are in terms of reliability. In the past year we have traded 3 Jeep grand cherokees with around 60K on the clock every single one has needed a new rear diff. The other difference will be in the ride and road manners. The Infiniti is a much more comftorable ride and much easier to drive. Jeeps have a tendancy to require constant attention to keep in a strait line. The Infiniti is also going to offer a much longer warrenty and much better customer service.
Unfortunatly it does not matter if a repair has diminished the value of a vehicle. If by welding the frame Infiniti brought the car within Manufacturers specifications that is considered repaired with out reguard to the value.
The same thing would happen if someone scratched your car and you had it repainted. Paint work is paint work it does not matter why it happened and as long as it is repaired that is all your insurance will cover.
It ABSOLUTELY matters if a defect/repair to said defect diminished the value of the vehicle. Under lemon law terms, a defect that substantially impairs the use, value or safety of the vehicle qualifies. Should I choose to sue, there are several other areas where I am covered. No one can make the argument that damaging a vehicle to try to fix it is acceptable.
Now, it can also be argued that the repair to the faulty weld could never bring the vehicle to factory specs, because the weld repair was done with a different technique of welding, and factory robots did not make the weld. Because the repair varies from the original factory job, it is questionable whether the frame can now perform as designed- leading me to wonder if the vehicle is safe to drive now.
What I have been told by several Infiniti dealers across the country is that once a loose weld in the frame was evident, the company should have taken the truck back immediately.
You cannot say that it doesn't matter that a factory defect has caused me to lose several thousands of dollars in value. I should not be stuck with Infiniti's mistake, especially when Nissan so proudly boasts of "precision welds by robots" in its commercials.
Dear Mr. Lemon, I, for one am quite interested in your saga, so do keep posting. I find it discouraging that you are having to put so much effort into having a car problem resolved. I believe this is why people just live with problems, because it just takes so much energy to have anything taken care of these days. Look at all you have had to go through just to have a reliable car to drive.
I hope that Infinity is listening. I did not purchase an Infinity because of your story. I purchased a Lexus, based upon their service reputation, even though I liked the look of the Infinity. I refuse to deal with a company that would be so ill mannered and inconsiderate.
Having said all of this, I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Infinity vehicle, and I will give it strong consideration when I purchase again (if they can spruce up their customer service). Does anyone have the navigation system and have you been satisfied with it?
We have only had our QX4 for about a month. We have a cabin in the mountains and wanted a special vehicle for the drive there. We tested everything and nothing, in our opinion, came close to the Q for responsiveness on the curves, four wheel drive, power, and handling on the rough terrain we encounter at times. As far as the fuel economy goes, it is poor, but a few bucks a tank full is not a concern. If I wanted good mileage, I would have looked elsewhere. Sorry to hear of the lemon. I will be very interested to hear what Infiniti does to give you support.
Beyond the comments from mvargo1, you may also want to consider the safety aspects of the SUV. Check out www.nhtsa.gov for crash test.
I have a 2000 QX4 for over a year. Other than the horsepower (fixed during 2001) and mileage, the vehicle has had no problems and perfect in every way.
The Infiniti Lemon appears to be an anomaly. Everyone else loves their Pathfinder/QX4.
I bought my 2001 last August and have had zero problems with it. The navigation system is way cool - I have it on all the time and it always knows where I am, even if I don't!
Everyone, I still get lots of requests from my previous posts on offering help to go to Canada and get your QX4. Just thought I should bring this up again for those who have missed it.
Prices are much less in Canada mostly due to the strong US dollar. I went up in September to buy and I know of about 25 who have since. We've been able to find some really good dealers who will sell for just over cost and do business over the phone. I've seen QX4's with AWD, Premium, Sport, and sunroof sell for under $31,500.
This is not difficult at all. There is a little paperwork to do of course. To save space here, I did put a few details at post #330 above. Take a look there. Then just email me with questions or for more info. I'm glad to help out.
The reason I have a QX4 now is because I settled with Chrysler on a lemon Jeep Grand Cherokee. What a difference. Jeep has never been able to fix the "clunking" front end or the axle problems or the grinding transfer case problems. Go to their Town Hall and listen to all of the complaints. I'm so much happier now that I have a 2001 QX4 with about 17,000 miles now.
I paid 32,775 not including taxes, tag and title for a 4x2 with premium package, sunroof and rear wind deflector in Miami. Plus, I got 3.9% financing. Let me know if you have any other questions.
I drove home a beautiful new QX4 last Saturday, and am loving it.
I paid $36,326, which included the Premium Package, Sunroof, Rear Window Deflector, and Sports Package. This price includes Destination Charge of 525.
Added to that, I got a brush guard, wheel locks, deflector, and mask. All totaled, including dealer handling of 299, but not including taxes, was $37,869.
I got the 3.9 financing, as well.
Hope you get a great deal on yours. Be willing to walk off the lot a few times and stand firm on the Edmund's TMV pricing.
If Mr. Infiniti-Lemon is settling with Infiniti, chances are we won't hear much more about the details. Standard operating procedure is to sign a non-disclosure agreement and the auto companies DO watch these chat rooms to see who is blabbing about the terms of their settlement. They won't stop there. They may even call 6 or 7 months later, psoing as a consumer who is interested in "buying" the vehicle that has been returned and wanting the former owner to "give me the details". Believe me, they want you to setle before the Lemon law is invoked because then they can re-sell the vehicle. If the vehicle is declared a "LEMON" they cannot re-sell it but donate it or "part-it-out".
Thank you iscatena for the information. Lemon's tone did sound remarkably different in that last post, so I think you have made a talented and wise summation.
Sometimes a bulletin board gets pre-occupied by one person with a bad vehicle, which often turns out to be a bad servicing dealer, and more often than not, a personality conflict. Our 2001 QX4 has been on the road since September, and is simply exceeding our expectations in every way. We are in Canada, so the 4x4 gets plenty of use. We've owned SUVs since 1980, and the quality on this one is excellent with superb dealer service. The Canadian QX4s have no options, only colour (note Canadian spelling?). They come standard with 17" tires, limited slip diff, sunroof, block heater. A huge improvement over our 97 Blazer, which had lots of mechanical problems, and (at least in Canada) great value for the money. List price is $48,000 CDN, which is cheap since exchange rate is $1.50CDN to $1.00U.S. Cheaper and better equipped than a Mercedes or Land Rover, and not much more than a Jeep or Explorer. So, it's not perfect, but close enough for me. I didn't compare it to the Acura MDX which is really a van on steroids, and not really considered a truck up here, where people REALLY like their trucks.
Is it worth it to pay the extra money for a QX4 instead of a Pathfinder LE? I can get a loaded PF LE 4x2 with nav system for less than a QX4 without a navigation system.
Ordered my new 2001 QX4 from Discover Infiniti in San Diego two hours ago. Could not find a Titanium/Graphite interior in 4x4 with Navigation anywhere in the western US - had to order one directly from the factory ! Just wanted to let you potential buyers know - we agreed on $100 below invoice ($36,100 + TTL for 4x4, Premium, Sunroof, Navigation and Tow), and 3.9% financing. We could have actually gotten another $500-800 off (we own another Infiniti, and there is a "loyalty bonus" of $1000 for QX4), but since they had to order the car, we decided that it was acceptable to us. Most dealerships in So Cal are offering pretty good deals, especially on cars already in stock. Invoice price should be no problem to get, and with current low rate financing, I think it is a great deal. Miller Infiniti in Van Nuys are selling them at invoice; Carsdirect.com is about $500 above invoice; so is McPherson Infiniti in Tustin.
By the way, this truck is for my wife, and she thinks it was totally worth it to get the QX4 over Pathfinder LE (about $3000 difference in price). It just "feels richer" inside and out. As for me, better sound insulation alone was worth at least $1000 to me, plus extra year of warranty, loaner cars, etc... Pathfinder is still a great truck, though.
Nissan will be producing a full-size SUV for MY2003, so since Infiniti simply copies the Nissan design, don't expect a larger QX4 before MY2003 (fall of 2002).
Jack Gillis, Public Affairs Director for the Consumer Federation of America, published "The Ultimate Car Book&", along with the Center for Auto Safety, and names the Infinity QX4 the Best Mid-size SUV of the year.
Glad this great SUV got the recognition it deserves!
Infiniti will be producing all AWD performance oriented cross-over vehicle using the Skyline sourced AWD system currently found in the QX4 along with the 340HP V8 from the 2002 Q45. Look for it in about a year and a half.
I'm leasing a '98 QX4 which ends in May 2001. The Q has run fine--other than snagging seatbelts and anemic engine--for over 50K miles.
Here's the question: do I buy it at the end of the lease (I'm thinking $21/$22K) or move on to a new vehicle? I'm considering a new QX4, a Toyota HL and --don't laugh--possibly a 2002 Bravada. The MDX is too much ($40K from Clair Acura in MA)even though I thoroughly enjoyed the test drive. I'll test drive them all, natch, but I'd love to hear from the crew.
we had a 98LE pathfinder leased we decided to either move on to the new 01pathfinder or the 01QX4. final decision was getting the 01QX4.
if you are happy with the power of your engine, you might wanna save your money and stick with what you have. after driving an import SUV you will have a hard time getting satisfied with a domestic SUV.
I just purchased 2001 LE over the QX4. If I had the extra cash to burn, I would have probably purhcased the QX4. The LE was a slight stretch for me in terms of $$. I'm totally satified with the LE. I feel good knowing the QX4 is a gussied up LE. QX4 owners, please don't gang up on me for making that statement, it's not my intention to put your vehicle down...there both made by Nissan. They are both wonderful and hopefully reliable vehicles. I just traded in my 98 Grand Cherokee for the LE and have no regrets...what a difference in build quality, performance and ride.
Comments
1. Gas mileage.
I know its winter and all but 13 MPG in city and 16 hwy?
2. Wind noise from roof while on hwy
3. Running boards that get the back of your pants every time you exit.
4. Slow CD changer
Most vehicles have some drawbacks in one way or another. Its up to you to decide witch ones you can live with.
By the way I bought my Qx4 in Richmond B.C. (Canada) under 2 hrs. from Seattle.
I paid 31,500 for my fully loaded titanium Qx4 plus around $900 duty at the US border.
It's well worth the trip but they didn't want my US trade. The dealer said it would have to go through customs in Canada to make sure it meets their safety standards. Not worth it.
My friend bought a Jeep GC w/ the 4.7 V8. How does he beat me every time we race and get better gas mileage with a motor that is 1.2 liters larger??
Could I get some feed back on what your MPG is?
To all the people who can not decide between a Qx4 or a PF. All I have to say is drive both of them. Then go to Canada and buy one!
What did you end up paying for your qx4 excluding taxes, tag and title? What options does the car have? What area do you live in?
jpscatena@t-one.net
Still no progress with my case. The eastern region office last week asked me to fax them the appraisal that shows that I have lost a ton of value as a result of the weld problem. They told me that they are looking at possible resolutions, but so far nothing....
I am a bit alarmed to see that Nissan is answering people who e-mail them with a form letter e-mail that says I am not presenting all of the relevant facts on my site. I wonder what I am supposedly leaving out.
What I can't understand is this: Several dealers around the country have told me that Infiniti should have taken the vehicle back as soon as a loose frame weld was evident. The guy in the eastern region office laughed when I told him this. I don't know why I am being disrespected like this. It's really disconcerting that nothing's happening in the face of such obvious evidence.
Looks like I am going to have to get my attorney involved.
How would you like Infiniti to treat you if you were in my shoes?
http://sleepwalk.home.mindspring.com
Last week, the Eastern Region Office Parts & Service Manager, David Hart, asked me to fax the appraisal that showed my vehicle as having possible frame damage and a very low market value because of it. I did this, and waited several days for a response. I had hope that someone reasonable would be dealing with my case and would see the obvious problems.
After a few days of not getting my calls returned by Mr. Hart, I called this morning and caught him in the office. He put forth this proposal:
He wants me to take my vehicle to a dealership and meet with the service manager and tech rep to look at my vehicle and set some timetables to fix these concerns. He specifically mentioned the damage done to the dash and said how he could tell from the pictures that it detracted from the vehicle.
I asked him whether a repurchase negotiation would be part of this meeting. He told me that it would not be- and asked if I was surprised.
This is an insult! I sent them final repair requests, and they waived that by telling me I had no problems. NOW they want another chance to try to fix the vehicle??
I was angered and asked whether the technical person would be qualified to assess what kind of diminished value resulted from the repairs to the loose weld. He told me that probably no one employed by Infiniti was qualified to judge soemthing like that. WOW- that directly contradicts what the dealership and Consumer Affairs office told me back in October- that the repair had no effect on the value!
Mr. Hart tried to argue that he was addressing the concerns I had come to him with. I countered by stating that I had come to him with the firm position that I am seeking a refund. I again asked whether Infiniti intended to buy the vehicle back. Mr. Hart told me no.
I cannot believe that after all of this Infiniti thinks its "proposal" to look at my vehicle to fix it is adequate. It seems ridiculous that it took them over a week to decide to make this "offer." I have already suffered through enough repairs with this lemon, one that has problems I am told cannot be fixed, and Infiniti wants to initiate more repairs.
Remember, back in December Consumer Affairs told me that they were gathering financial information and were considering repurchasing my vehicle. Every time I have asked Mr. Hart about this he quickly changes the subject. I really feel that I am being treated in a neglectful and unethical way.
I own one and I don't understand.....
the milage that you have on the old engine is just as bad as what you will be getting. even the old engine is known for the horrible gas milage. but at least you get some extra power as a trade of now. reason is its a different familty of engines VQ same as the maximas but with bigger displacement 3.5L. i haven't calculated exact figures yet but its about the same fuel consumption...pathy sucked 16L/100kms)
so if you are happy with the way your current car is doing....fuel is not a new issue.
regarding premium fuel. i use the regular 87 octane. the engine has knock sensors that will retard the timing to prevent detonation. so no harm, the sensor will retard the timing. only problem would be a loss if performace. i don't notice it....its one hell of a powerfull engine.
its the same engine as my 95 maxima which has been
running on 87 octane gas for 170,000kms. problem free. (they recomend premium 92+ octane)
they design cars with higher compression to get more power out of an engine of the same displacemt. higher compression requires higher octane fuel. but they also have the knock sensors.
you'll get varying opinions about prem/regular fuel....but regarding the bad on gas matter. yours is just as bad.
The occasional tank of mid-grade or regular now and then is okay, but I wouldn't do it continuously.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Even if we only know one side of the story--the consumers--I would think they would settle just to get an unhappy customer on down the road and everybody could move on.
I agree that the MDX is a pretty great effort on Acura's part (I guess I'm biased because I own a 2001 Honda Odyssey EX which is the same platform, and I love it). One of the things that scares me about it is the fact it's a first model year (the 1999 Odyssey is really feeling the "first model year blues" with a number of recalls and a very unHonda-like reliability record). I also caught its review on Car and Driver television where they raved about its highway manners but completely trashed it on its off-highway performance mentioning that a "well-graded gravel road" or something to that effect was the most difficult offroading you should throw at it. Neither of these is an issue with the QX4. Just my $0.02.
I did not read this message board until this weekend, so I was surprised at Lemon guys problems. Even if he were just a whiner/complainer/perfectionist (not saying he is), I would think that Infiniti would just give him a new vehicle just to stop the bad publicity.
My wife and I are exceptionally pleased with our QX-4 so far. It represents a night/day difference from the Explorer that we also drive. Much smoother ride, much more acceleration. Climate control is great, we like the automatic seat position adjuster as well. I have not noticed any vibrations, squeaks or noises, which by the way are rampant on our 3 y.o. Explorer. However, I will keep an ear tuned for such irregularities as I drive around this week.
Negatives: Upon reading the owners manual, I was also annoyed at the need for premium octane fuel. The gas mileage is bad enough.
My wife was somewhat miffed at me for paying so much for a vehicle. We had been looking at a Mazda Tribute, Honda CRX, Ford Escape as our second vehicle, but I came into some extra cash (sold a rental property that I bought and lived in when I was single) and moved up to a vehicle $10K - $15K more expensive. In addition to the MDX, we also looked at the RX-300 and the Land Rover Disco II. The RX-300 does not accomodate our dogs. That is, the rear cargo space is miniscule. We both liked the Land Rover, but decided against it due to poor power and spotty reliability. We actually do a little lite off-roading, for which the Disco would be nice, but we've still got our Explorer for that. Needless to say, my wife finally got a chance to drive the QX-4 yesterday, and now doesn't want to have anything to do with the Explorer.
Reading some of the other message boards for MDX, RX-300 and Disco II, it seems that those owners are very satisfied with their vehicles and want to share there joy with other owners. A sense of joie de esprit, perhaps. Even the Disco owners seem rabidly faithful to their choice, in spite of various weak points.
I do not sense that here on this board. I haven't read too far back, but it appears that most of this board is dominated by Lemon guy and a discussion of his situation. I see some positive testimonials from satisfied QX-4 owners, but I would like to hear more commentary to see if Lemon guy is more of an isolated incident, or a tip of the iceberg.
You all who have just bought QX-4's, what are your experiences thus far??
Warren
detailed comments about my experience can be
read if you go further back in the messages
i give this car 100 out of 100
the ONE and ONLY week point would be
the fuel economy.
and by the way...i am a very picky person when
it comes to cars and mechanical designs in general. i am also a very picky person when it
comes to customer service....and they've managed
to keep my experience to the best possible ppoint.
enjoy yours
had mine for about 3 months now
ialso had a 98LE which ran problem free
perfect satisfaction with nissan/infiniti so far.
i would have to say that the lemon case is an insolated incident
and i never judge a case by looking at the facts from one side of the battle.
best of luck with yours
Unfortunately I have a lemon, and feel it's my duty to keep the board posted with what happens. In dealing with Infiniti Consumer Affairs and Corporate, I have only talked to one person that I felt really cared about me as a customer. Too bad that this is the western region manager- I am in the east. He actually told me that he tried to get information on my case and was told to butt out! As for the people I have dealt with who can make decisions in my case, I am constantly frustrated. How would you feel if someone insisted that your car was found to be problem-free on a date that they never looked at it??
I am not saying that all Infiniti QX4's are lemons. Mine happens to be, and I'm just pointing out how they are treating me. Statistically, most people should be happy with their vehicles. But what happens when you are the unlucky guy who has problem after problem? This is the true test of the character of the company.
I plan to update my site soon with another letter they sent me, and the appraisal that shows "possible frame damage." It's not possible for me to present both sides of the story, but I think their behavior speaks for itself. It's troubling that they are sending e-mails to people saying that I am not presenting all of the facts. I have asked them a few times now what they think I am leaving out, and they won't respond.
I wouldn't be complaining if my problems had been resolved. Months ago I told them I would be happy with a new QX4 - after all I've been through I don't think they deserve another chance from me. Seeing as how many many people have expressed interest in how this situation is resolved, I will continue to update regularly. Hopefully soon I can spend my time in better ways.
caveat emptor
http://sleepwalk.home.mindspring.com
I also just received some very interesting e-mail from a television producer interested in doing a story. If Infiniti is content to let this drag on, it is my duty to let other consumers know what has happened to me.
I feel fortunate that I am not in infiniti_lemon's situation. If I were, I'd probably be doing the same things infiniti_lemon is doing. I am really surprised in the manner in which Nissan/Infiniti is handling this case. It's a bit shameful, especially since they are trying to win consumers back to their side.
infiniti_lemon, I think that the suggestion of invoking bad publicity via local TV networks is a good idea. No one wants bad publicity, it may just tip the odds in your favor. Good Luck, I feel for you.
The same thing would happen if someone scratched your car and you had it repainted. Paint work is paint work it does not matter why it happened and as long as it is repaired that is all your insurance will cover.
Now, it can also be argued that the repair to the faulty weld could never bring the vehicle to factory specs, because the weld repair was done with a different technique of welding, and factory robots did not make the weld. Because the repair varies from the original factory job, it is questionable whether the frame can now perform as designed- leading me to wonder if the vehicle is safe to drive now.
What I have been told by several Infiniti dealers across the country is that once a loose weld in the frame was evident, the company should have taken the truck back immediately.
You cannot say that it doesn't matter that a factory defect has caused me to lose several thousands of dollars in value. I should not be stuck with Infiniti's mistake, especially when Nissan so proudly boasts of "precision welds by robots" in its commercials.
I, for one am quite interested in your saga, so do keep posting. I find it discouraging that you are having to put so much effort into having a car problem resolved. I believe this is why people just live with problems, because it just takes so much energy to have anything taken care of these days. Look at all you have had to go through just to have a reliable car to drive.
I hope that Infinity is listening. I did not purchase an Infinity because of your story. I purchased a Lexus, based upon their service reputation, even though I liked the look of the Infinity. I refuse to deal with a company that would be so ill mannered and inconsiderate.
Having said all of this, I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Infinity vehicle, and I will give it strong consideration when I purchase again (if they can spruce up their customer service). Does anyone have the navigation system and have you been satisfied with it?
full is not a concern. If I wanted good mileage, I would have looked elsewhere. Sorry to hear of the lemon. I will be very interested to hear what Infiniti does to give you support.
I have a 2000 QX4 for over a year. Other than the horsepower (fixed during 2001) and mileage, the vehicle has had no problems and perfect in every way.
The Infiniti Lemon appears to be an anomaly. Everyone else loves their Pathfinder/QX4.
Good luck!
I still get lots of requests from my previous posts on offering help to go to Canada and get your QX4. Just thought I should bring this up again for those who have missed it.
Prices are much less in Canada mostly due to the strong US dollar. I went up in September to buy and I know of about 25 who have since. We've been able to find some really good dealers who will sell for just over cost and do business over the phone. I've seen QX4's with AWD, Premium, Sport, and sunroof sell for under $31,500.
This is not difficult at all. There is a little paperwork to do of course. To save space here, I did put a few details at post #330 above. Take a look there. Then just email me with questions or for more info. I'm glad to help out.
-Jon
jonlofquist@aol.com
jpscatena@t-one. net
I paid $36,326, which included the Premium Package, Sunroof, Rear Window Deflector, and Sports Package. This price includes Destination Charge of 525.
Added to that, I got a brush guard, wheel locks, deflector, and mask. All totaled, including dealer handling of 299, but not including taxes, was $37,869.
I got the 3.9 financing, as well.
Hope you get a great deal on yours. Be willing to walk off the lot a few times and stand firm on the Edmund's TMV pricing.
Do you really want to buy a vehicle that they aren't going to make anymore?
Our 2001 QX4 has been on the road since September, and is simply exceeding our expectations in every way. We are in Canada, so the 4x4 gets plenty of use. We've owned SUVs since 1980, and the quality on this one is excellent with superb dealer service. The Canadian QX4s have no options, only colour (note Canadian spelling?). They come standard with 17" tires, limited slip diff, sunroof, block heater. A huge improvement over our 97 Blazer, which had lots of mechanical problems, and (at least in Canada) great value for the money. List price is $48,000 CDN, which is cheap since exchange rate is $1.50CDN to $1.00U.S. Cheaper and better equipped than a Mercedes or Land Rover, and not much more than a Jeep or Explorer. So, it's not perfect, but close enough for me. I didn't compare it to the Acura MDX which is really a van on steroids, and not really considered a truck up here, where people REALLY like their trucks.
jscatena, thanks for clarifying the non-disclosure agreement because I was quite surprised that infiniti_lemon did not go into details.
Any thoughts?
Could not find a Titanium/Graphite interior in 4x4 with Navigation
anywhere in the western US - had to order one directly from the factory !
Just wanted to let you potential buyers know - we agreed on $100 below
invoice ($36,100 + TTL for 4x4, Premium, Sunroof, Navigation and Tow), and 3.9%
financing. We could have actually gotten another $500-800 off (we own another
Infiniti, and there is a "loyalty bonus" of $1000 for QX4), but since they had to order
the car, we decided that it was acceptable to us. Most dealerships in So Cal are
offering pretty good deals, especially on cars already in stock. Invoice price should
be no problem to get, and with current low rate financing, I think it is a great deal.
Miller Infiniti in Van Nuys are selling them at invoice; Carsdirect.com is about $500
above invoice; so is McPherson Infiniti in Tustin.
By the way, this truck is for my wife, and she thinks it was totally worth it to get the
QX4 over Pathfinder LE (about $3000 difference in price). It just "feels richer"
inside and out. As for me, better sound insulation alone was worth at least $1000 to me,
plus extra year of warranty, loaner cars, etc... Pathfinder is still a great truck,
though.
Jack Gillis, Public Affairs Director for the Consumer Federation of America, published "The Ultimate Car Book&", along with the Center for Auto Safety, and names the Infinity QX4 the Best Mid-size SUV of the year.
Glad this great SUV got the recognition it deserves!
Here's the question: do I buy it at the end of the lease (I'm thinking $21/$22K) or move on to a new vehicle? I'm considering a new QX4, a Toyota HL and --don't laugh--possibly a 2002 Bravada. The MDX is too much ($40K from Clair Acura in MA)even though I thoroughly enjoyed the test drive. I'll test drive them all, natch, but I'd love to hear from the crew.
we decided to either move on to the new 01pathfinder or the 01QX4.
final decision was getting the 01QX4.
if you are happy with the power of your engine,
you might wanna save your money and stick with
what you have. after driving an import SUV you
will have a hard time getting satisfied with a domestic SUV.