Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

xwesx

If I ever have a car apply the brakes without my input, that'll be the last time I drive it! I think that if I were to get a new Subaru, the first thing on my list of mods would be to apply a strip of vinyl over the "eyesight" section of the windshield.

nyccarguy

@corvette said:
@nyccarguy - most of the SEs did not have BSM, IIRC. Maybe also consider the 2020-ish Accord Hybrid if it's in the same price range, I rode in one of those as an Uber and really preferred it to the Camry

I’ll check it out, but Accords are expensive. I think a 2020ish hybrid Accord would be way out of my price range.

graphicguy

@benjaminh ...yeah...that's a lot more damage than I originally thought. That's a "total". Airbags alone probably would be $8K-$10K.

jmonroe1

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:

Well, heck. No one hurt, thank goodness. Other driver at fault. They went around a corner in their 2007 4Runner too fast on a two lane road, spun around and went out of control into our cars's lane. The back of their 4100 pound truck-based Toyota SUV collided with the front of our Outback at around 25-30 mph or so (just a guess). Speed was the main factor, but I wonder about their tires.

My wife and I weren't actually in the car. For those who have understandably lost track of our story, we recently helped our next generation, who really liked our red Outback and sometimes borrowed it, to get a blue Outback. But our grown child has migraines that were triggered by the new car smell, and so we had switched cars (telling insurance) for the next month or so.

Anyway, the other people were insured by Nationwide, which seems pretty good, but we've still taken a hit. Damage was about 19k, but to my surprise the car was totaled out today with a payout of $31,100. We paid $34k + TTL in June of 2024, and so that's more than we could have expected. But with tax and so on it was more like 37.5k out the door, and so we paid about $6500 to use the car for 1 year and 3 months.

Thought it was a car we might keep for ten years, but now it's already gone.

Currently we have a Jeep Cherokee rental provided by the insurance company.

Paperwork is detailed and is in process. We go get things notarized tomorrow, and then supposedly our bank loan gets paid off, and then we get a check for the remainder.

Sigh. So, I'm back in the chronic car buying line. But since my wife loved that Outback we'll almost certainly get another one, esp. considering the 0.9% financing.

Glad everyone is OK. Speed isn't really the factor, it's going too fast for conditions, or unsafe excessive speed, which has zero to do with speed/speeding as normally defined by most people and institutions. This is called a driver error (mental/physical) shortcomings.

————————————————
Hint: Too fast for conditions IS speeding which of course is a mental error.

jmonroe

In most States, by a legal definition you'd be correct, but most people define speeding only as exceeding the two arbitrary black numbers on a white aluminum sign. If conditions are very bad, you could easily be unsafe at under the speed limit.

Accepting that your legal definition is the one we'll use, then you must accept by the EXACT SAME RATIONALE that you can legally exceed the two numbers on the white aluminum sign as long as it is safe, prudent, and reasonable to do so given the existing conditions.

Or do you only use logic when it suits your narrative?

————————————————
Why would you say exceeding the posted speed limit is fine as long as the conditions are right. Limits are limits whether you agree with them or not. FWIW, I don’t agree with most of them either but I don’t want speeding tickets, so I slow down. I can’t imagine you’d win a speeding ticket charge in court with your reasoning. That sounds pretty logical to me.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

If I ever have a car apply the brakes without my input, that'll be the last time I drive it! I think that if I were to get a new Subaru, the first thing on my list of mods would be to apply a strip of vinyl over the "eyesight" section of the windshield.

————————————————-
Don’t be surprised if the car won’t start if you do that. I’ll have to see if that’s true with Mrs. j’s 2018 Legacy and let you know but right now we’ve loaned that car to grandson #2 and he’s at school. His car is getting some work done on it by his older brother. Could be a week before it’s returned.

Maybe, another Subie owner in here like @Michaell could tape some cardboard over the windshield on his Outback which I’m sure has the same Eye Sight nanny as her Legacy.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

xwesx said:

If I ever have a car apply the brakes without my input, that'll be the last time I drive it! I think that if I were to get a new Subaru, the first thing on my list of mods would be to apply a strip of vinyl over the "eyesight" section of the windshield.

————————————————-
Don’t be surprised if the car won’t start if you do that. I’ll have to see if that’s true with Mrs. j’s 2018 Legacy and let you know but right now we’ve loaned that car to grandson #2 and he’s at school. His car is getting some work done on it by his older brother. Could be a week before it’s returned.

Maybe, another Subie owner in here like @Michaell could tape some cardboard over the windshield on his Outback which I’m sure has the same Eye Sight nanny as her Legacy.

jmonroe

Yes, my Outback has Eyesight - and I love having it.

explorerx4

Any vehicle with adaptive cruise is going to apply the brakes at some point if you are using it.

tjc78

nyccarguy said:

@tjc78 said:

That's a nice example of that generation of Camry. I thought the price was high too until I looked at comps on Carmax. It is priced well! If you could grind another $1000 off even better.

So I took a closer look at the CarFax. Owner #2 had it for a year and put over 52K miles on it. That screams ride share driver. I looked at the comps on carmax. It is so MUCH cheaper than anything they offer. There’s got to be a reason it isn’t Toyota gold or silver certified…. A salesman from that dealer bought some material from me. He gave me his card. It might be worth a phone call.

Based on where that dealer is located, that could have been a hard first year if it was an Uber/Lyft car.

tifighter

My one and only mod -
Before

After

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

nyccarguy said:

@tjc78 said:

That's a nice example of that generation of Camry. I thought the price was high too until I looked at comps on Carmax. It is priced well! If you could grind another $1000 off even better.

So I took a closer look at the CarFax. Owner #2 had it for a year and put over 52K miles on it. That screams ride share driver. I looked at the comps on carmax. It is so MUCH cheaper than anything they offer. There’s got to be a reason it isn’t Toyota gold or silver certified…. A salesman from that dealer bought some material from me. He gave me his card. It might be worth a phone call.

Based on where that dealer is located, that could have been a hard first year if it was an Uber/Lyft car.

So the Toyota salesman came back in today for a few more items. I pulled up the listing on my phone and asked him what's the deal with this car. He said it is another salesman's who bought the car and commutes from far away. He says he thinks it has BSM, but he will check. It is truthfully a lot more than I was looking to spend, but if it does check out then it might be a solid buy.

ab348

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
You might want to look into a coolant change due to time if it hasn't been changed yet.
It gets acidic over time.

That was done in late 2022. It is that GM Dexos stuff so I don't know how long it lasts.

oldfarmer50

tifighter said:

My one and only mod -

Before


After

That’s gotta be good for what, maybe 50 horsepower?😂

andres3

corvette said:

@nyccarguy - most of the SEs did not have BSM, IIRC. Maybe also consider the 2020-ish Accord Hybrid if it's in the same price range, I rode in one of those as an Uber and really preferred it to the Camry.

@xwesx - in my state, the insurance company "may" (but is not required to) exclude the cost of airbag replacement in the threshold for totaling the car, or at least that used to be the law. It's very anti-consumer... if an airbag deployed, I never want to see that car again, other than to remove my personal items.

@benjaminh - similar thing happened to my cousin, a deer ran out in front of her, and the car slammed on the brakes before she did. Unfortunately, didn't avoid a collision, but it was less severe than it otherwise would have been. Sounds like a good price on the OE extended warranty!

Anyone know if the nannies are smart meaning if you go to swerve around an obstacle like a deer it won't slam on the brakes and make you fish tail by removing all weight and traction on the rear just as you swerve? I'd be deathly afraid the safety nannies are "dumb."

kyfdx

Ever hear of stability control?

andres3

xwesx said:

If I ever have a car apply the brakes without my input, that'll be the last time I drive it! I think that if I were to get a new Subaru, the first thing on my list of mods would be to apply a strip of vinyl over the "eyesight" section of the windshield.

Even worse, imagine it slamming on the brakes when your backing up in a parking lot and there's not a moving mouse nor bug in site!!!!! More than once.....

andres3

kyfdx said:

Ever hear of stability control?

Yeah, but I've heard stability control can't fix stupid, nor defeat physics and Newtonian laws.

andres3

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:

Well, heck. No one hurt, thank goodness. Other driver at fault. They went around a corner in their 2007 4Runner too fast on a two lane road, spun around and went out of control into our cars's lane. The back of their 4100 pound truck-based Toyota SUV collided with the front of our Outback at around 25-30 mph or so (just a guess). Speed was the main factor, but I wonder about their tires.

My wife and I weren't actually in the car. For those who have understandably lost track of our story, we recently helped our next generation, who really liked our red Outback and sometimes borrowed it, to get a blue Outback. But our grown child has migraines that were triggered by the new car smell, and so we had switched cars (telling insurance) for the next month or so.

Anyway, the other people were insured by Nationwide, which seems pretty good, but we've still taken a hit. Damage was about 19k, but to my surprise the car was totaled out today with a payout of $31,100. We paid $34k + TTL in June of 2024, and so that's more than we could have expected. But with tax and so on it was more like 37.5k out the door, and so we paid about $6500 to use the car for 1 year and 3 months.

Thought it was a car we might keep for ten years, but now it's already gone.

Currently we have a Jeep Cherokee rental provided by the insurance company.

Paperwork is detailed and is in process. We go get things notarized tomorrow, and then supposedly our bank loan gets paid off, and then we get a check for the remainder.

Sigh. So, I'm back in the chronic car buying line. But since my wife loved that Outback we'll almost certainly get another one, esp. considering the 0.9% financing.

Glad everyone is OK. Speed isn't really the factor, it's going too fast for conditions, or unsafe excessive speed, which has zero to do with speed/speeding as normally defined by most people and institutions. This is called a driver error (mental/physical) shortcomings.

————————————————
Hint: Too fast for conditions IS speeding which of course is a mental error.

jmonroe

In most States, by a legal definition you'd be correct, but most people define speeding only as exceeding the two arbitrary black numbers on a white aluminum sign. If conditions are very bad, you could easily be unsafe at under the speed limit.

Accepting that your legal definition is the one we'll use, then you must accept by the EXACT SAME RATIONALE that you can legally exceed the two numbers on the white aluminum sign as long as it is safe, prudent, and reasonable to do so given the existing conditions.

Or do you only use logic when it suits your narrative?

————————————————
Why would you say exceeding the posted speed limit is fine as long as the conditions are right. Limits are limits whether you agree with them or not. FWIW, I don’t agree with most of them either but I don’t want speeding tickets, so I slow down. I can’t imagine you’d win a speeding ticket charge in court with your reasoning. That sounds pretty logical to me.

jmonroe

The logic is pretty simple. Either conditions matter or they don't. If you think conditions matter, then you must accept that they do. If you don't think conditions matter, then you cannot call a speed under the speed limit "speeding." To refute the above you have to be a complete hypocrite.

This is actually a pretty basic defense to the "Basic Speeding Law" in CA and many States. Safety matters in the law. It's in the Nolo Press self-help law books, I didn't invent it. Of course, at 65 MPH the signs change from a speed limit to a "Maximum Speed Limit" complete with a separate vehicle code that explicitly makes it absolute and conditions and safety don't matter one iota, the only thing that matters in a max speed law case is the $$$$$$$.

28firefighter

Took entirely too long and at least one lawsuit in small claims, but my insurance company settled on both Loss of Use and Diminished Value at the full claim amount. Thankful to have put this whole ordeal to bed.

stickguy

good news. did you manage to come out whole on the deal overall?

stickguy

nyccarguy said:

tjc78 said:

nyccarguy said:

@tjc78 said:

That's a nice example of that generation of Camry. I thought the price was high too until I looked at comps on Carmax. It is priced well! If you could grind another $1000 off even better.

So I took a closer look at the CarFax. Owner #2 had it for a year and put over 52K miles on it. That screams ride share driver. I looked at the comps on carmax. It is so MUCH cheaper than anything they offer. There’s got to be a reason it isn’t Toyota gold or silver certified…. A salesman from that dealer bought some material from me. He gave me his card. It might be worth a phone call.

Based on where that dealer is located, that could have been a hard first year if it was an Uber/Lyft car.

So the Toyota salesman came back in today for a few more items. I pulled up the listing on my phone and asked him what's the deal with this car. He said it is another salesman's who bought the car and commutes from far away. He says he thinks it has BSM, but he will check. It is truthfully a lot more than I was looking to spend, but if it does check out then it might be a solid buy.

tough decision. but if you find a good one where the age and miles are reasonable, might not need to replace it before the kids are done. Something like the RX could cost more along the way and need to be replaced in a few years.

corvette

@28firefighter - "at least one?" Lol... Great result. It stinks that they dug their heels in, though.

The good news is, if you stay with that carrier, you're likely to be "on the board" for calling them out on their BS in an expensive way, and they'll think a bit more before crossing you again. At least, that was my experience with my former home/auto/umbrella carrier.

nyccarguy

@28firefighter said:
Took entirely too long and at least one lawsuit in small claims, but my insurance company settled on both Loss of Use and Diminished Value at the full claim amount. Thankful to have put this whole ordeal to bed.

That’s a fantastic way to start off the new year! Way to go!

nyccarguy

@stickguy said:
tough decision. but if you find a good one where the age and miles are reasonable, might not need to replace it before the kids are done. Something like the RX could cost more along the way and need to be replaced in a few years.

Right. Pay more now for a newer, lower mileage vehicle or pay more later for maintenance and repairs to an older vehicle.

If this Camry is the right vehicle, it could be used for all 3 kids. 19 year old can use it to drive to and from work over the summer. 16 year old can use it to drive to and from hockey practice. The princess is going to be 14 in November, so she’s still a solid 2 years away but time moves fast.

stickguy

so, 8 years. ballpark 8K/year average (kids don't tend to drive lots of miles), and you at the end have a 13 YO Camry with 130k on it, so should certainly still be reliable and safe. Besides, you were looking at a few options that were already at that age/miles and are not really all that much less money.

plus a big bonus, you won't have to put yourself through all this again!

tjc78

@nyccarguy said:
So the Toyota salesman came back in today for a few more items. I pulled up the listing on my phone and asked him what's the deal with this car. He said it is another salesman's who bought the car and commutes from far away. He says he thinks it has BSM, but he will check. It is truthfully a lot more than I was looking to spend, but if it does check out then it might be a solid buy.

That changes things for sure. It’s a good buy. Definitely worth a look.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy said:

So the Toyota salesman came back in today for a few more items. I pulled up the listing on my phone and asked him what's the deal with this car. He said it is another salesman's who bought the car and commutes from far away. He says he thinks it has BSM, but he will check. It is truthfully a lot more than I was looking to spend, but if it does check out then it might be a solid buy.

That changes things for sure. It’s a good buy. Definitely worth a look.

Don’t they say that highway miles are only the equivalent of 1/10 city mile as far as wear is concerned? 52k miles would only be like 5k miles of wear.

If they’re telling the truth.

stickguy

Plus if it’s at the dealership all the time better chance it got serviced!

graphicguy

nyccarguy said:

@corvette said:
@nyccarguy - most of the SEs did not have BSM, IIRC. Maybe also consider the 2020-ish Accord Hybrid if it's in the same price range, I rode in one of those as an Uber and really preferred it to the Camry

I’ll check it out, but Accords are expensive. I think a 2020ish hybrid Accord would be way out of my price range.

Had this same conversation with my son earlier this week. He has a GTI that's topped 100K miles and things are starting to go wrong. He's got a nasty stumble when accelerating. I helped him replace the plugs, the coil packs (which are a real PITA). We ran some Techron through the fuel system a couple of times.

Took it to VW. Spent $500 for diagnosis and some sort of reprogram of the ECU, which didn't help.

It's starting to use and leak a little oil. It needs brakes. He just put his 2nd set of tires on it. All minor stuff. Some is just routine maintenance, but irritating to him.

He wanted an Accord 2.0T (he really liked that drivetrain in my former TLX). Now, that they don't make them anymore, they are tough to find on the used market and are selling not that far off what they sold for new. For that money, I told him to look for used TLXs, but even there, they are holding value, too. Interesting, given Acura isn't going to make them anymore.

He's caught between dumping some serious money into the GTI in the hopes that takes care of it for a while, or going new (GTI, GLI, Integra), or keep looking for a used Accord 2.0 at a reasonable price.

HE looked at a new Accord. Actually, he found they are giving some decent discounts....about $2K off the Touring model (which is still high $30s). Told him if he's going that direction, look at a Camry, too. But, for some reason, Toyota is still restricting supply around these parts. Don't know why given they are made just a few hours down the road from us in KY. The local Toyota does have 4-Runners out the wazoo, though....all lined up in just about every color.

28firefighter

@stickguy I actually ended up coming out ahead by quite a bit.

@corvette my understanding is before my insurance company was acquired by the Emu people, they were far more customer oriented. Now I don’t think they’ll care and I’d expect them to dig in again if there’s a next time. That’s assuming they don’t drop me.

stickguy

Good deal. Something for your effort and aggravation.

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy said:

So the Toyota salesman came back in today for a few more items. I pulled up the listing on my phone and asked him what's the deal with this car. He said it is another salesman's who bought the car and commutes from far away. He says he thinks it has BSM, but he will check. It is truthfully a lot more than I was looking to spend, but if it does check out then it might be a solid buy.

That changes things for sure. It’s a good buy. Definitely worth a look.

In addition to searching carmax to get an idea of what the high side of the market is, I did a search on Car Gurus last night. Well technically it was this morning, but you get the point. It is pretty cool how many filters there are now so you can really narrow down what you are looking for. So I searched for Toyota Camrys within a 50 mile radius of me with blind spot monitior, under $20K, with less than 65K miles on the odometer. The car I referenced in my original post seems to be priced correctly. It does look cheap compared to what's on CarMax. The point being that I don't need to rush to go out and buy a car. They are out there.

Someone mentioned above that maybe a new Corolla isn't that much more expensive than the 65K mile $19K Camry. MSRP including destination on a '26 Corolla LE (gas) is $24,395. Finance for 60 months at 4.99% for 60 months, 5.99% for 72 months, or a 36 month lease on a car that will be worth well more than it's residual value. Good point.

benjaminh

Today's purchase. With 0.9% financing and c.7k down we have monthly payments for three years of $834. Total interest charges for the 3 year loan will be about $420. My spouse is happy about it.

stickguy

Only downside is new drivers in a new car! But at least that corolla has cost certainty. Only oil changes for many years.

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

Today's purchase. With 0.9% financing and c.7k down we have monthly payments for three years of $834. Total interest charges for the 3 year loan will be about $420. My spouse is happy about it.

Nice!

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Only downside is new drivers in a new car! But at least that corolla has cost certainty. Only oil changes for many years.

That's my biggest apprehension. I said I wouldn't buy a new car for a new driver again, but this isn't a pickup truck.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

Today's purchase. With 0.9% financing and c.7k down we have monthly payments for three years of $834. Total interest charges for the 3 year loan will be about $420. My spouse is happy about it.

Congrats on the new Outback! May you have many years of safe driving with it!

jmonroe1

benjaminh said:

Today's purchase. With 0.9% financing and c.7k down we have monthly payments for three years of $834. Total interest charges for the 3 year loan will be about $420. My spouse is happy about it.

————————————————-
Congrsts, very nice.

Given what happened to the old one, I think you should have opted for the front, rear and side monster bar protection package.

Good luck and give us a few reports as you mile it up.

jmonroe

tjc78

@benjaminh
Nice! Congrats.

tjc78

So .. I did a thing!

@jmonroe1
Go ahead and critique me!

I’m upset when I was pushing the box in I nicked the upper left a bit and the plate didn’t cover. Oh well it’s a garage.

2 hrs and 45 mins and that included taking the charger apart to change the amperage (I went low at 32 even though I installed 6 gauge with a 50amp)

Lack of pics because I was sweating and didn’t want to get my phone all dirty lol

jmonroe1

graphicguy said:

nyccarguy said:

@corvette said:
@nyccarguy - most of the SEs did not have BSM, IIRC. Maybe also consider the 2020-ish Accord Hybrid if it's in the same price range, I rode in one of those as an Uber and really preferred it to the Camry

I’ll check it out, but Accords are expensive. I think a 2020ish hybrid Accord would be way out of my price range.

Had this same conversation with my son earlier this week. He has a GTI that's topped 100K miles and things are starting to go wrong. He's got a nasty stumble when accelerating. I helped him replace the plugs, the coil packs (which are a real PITA). We ran some Techron through the fuel system a couple of times.

Took it to VW. Spent $500 for diagnosis and some sort of reprogram of the ECU, which didn't help.

It's starting to use and leak a little oil. It needs brakes. He just put his 2nd set of tires on it. All minor stuff. Some is just routine maintenance, but irritating to him.

He wanted an Accord 2.0T (he really liked that drivetrain in my former TLX). Now, that they don't make them anymore, they are tough to find on the used market and are selling not that far off what they sold for new. For that money, I told him to look for used TLXs, but even there, they are holding value, too. Interesting, given Acura isn't going to make them anymore.

He's caught between dumping some serious money into the GTI in the hopes that takes care of it for a while, or going new (GTI, GLI, Integra), or keep looking for a used Accord 2.0 at a reasonable price.

HE looked at a new Accord. Actually, he found they are giving some decent discounts....about $2K off the Touring model (which is still high $30s). Told him if he's going that direction, look at a Camry, too. But, for some reason, Toyota is still restricting supply around these parts. Don't know why given they are made just a few hours down the road from us in KY. The local Toyota does have 4-Runners out the wazoo, though....all lined up in just about every color.
————————————————
Are you saying they charged you 500 bucks for a diagnosis and still couldn’t fix the problem. That would piss me off for sure.

A stumbling problem upon acceleration, especially when stopped, reeks of a mass air flow sensor problem. I’d try that before throwing more parts at it.

Let us know what actually fixed it.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

Only downside is new drivers in a new car! But at least that corolla has cost certainty. Only oil changes for many years.

That's my biggest apprehension. I said I wouldn't buy a new car for a new driver again, but this isn't a pickup truck.

Have you thought of the old standby for a used car to give a kid…a Buick?

https://www.autotempest.com/trends/orrq-1G4GB5G39GF152416?localization=country&make=buick&maxmiles=75000&model=lacrosse&year_buckets=2010-2020&zip=12065

explorerx4

I'm pretty sure there are some well known reasons why Honda doesn't offer the 2.0 turbo anymore.

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

That's my biggest apprehension. I said I wouldn't buy a new car for a new driver again, but this isn't a pickup truck.

If you feel like saying, what happened that enhanced this worry?

But I agree with the idea that a new car is going to offer you and your next generation a more trouble-free experience. Is Toyota the main brand you're leaning toward, or would you consider others as well?

corvette

@tjc78 - nice, I think you'll enjoy having the convenience of L2 charging at home. Mine's getting installed Wednesday!

corvette

@benjaminh - congrats on the new ride!

nyccarguy

@benjaminh said:
If you feel like saying, what happened that enhanced this worry?

But I agree with the idea that a new car is going to offer you and your next generation a more trouble-free experience. Is Toyota the main brand you're leaning toward, or would you consider others as well?

My oldest just turned 19 on Tuesday. He got his license a few weeks before his 17th birthday in the summer of 2023. Used cars were very high back then and I was having difficulty (as I am now) with wrapping my head around spending between $10 - $15K on a used car with over 100,000 miles on it that would still need a decent amount of preventative maintenance and maybe a moderate repair. I ended up leasing him a brand new, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD. The only option on the truck was factory all weather mats. MSRP was $36K. He drove back and forth to work for about 2 weeks. Then on the 3rd day of school I got a call from the head mistress at his private school. He has Autism Spectrum Disorder. She told me that he had been involved in an accident with another student in the parking lot. Nobody was hurt (this was the most important thing), but it was clear that my son was at fault. He backed up into another student and caused about $3,600 worth of damage to her Crosstrek. It was clear that the Tacoma was too big of a truck for a new, driver who has ASD to handle. One of the things he has issues with is depth perception.

So I’m ok with the driving. It’s the parking that makes me nervous.

suydam

Well, we had one kid who totaled his car after 3 weeks. Fortunately no one was hurt. Just inexperience. It was a VERY used Buick of some sort. It would have hurt a lot more if it was a new car!

explorerx4

The best vehicle choice?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/what-s-the-most-attractive-car-a-guy-can-drive-part-1/vi-AA1LwgOD?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=68d85a2c891540c1ac9014dda3085ada&ei=26

ab348

I think something like a used Buick Encore is a good choice for a new driver. They are favored to be bought new by many seniors, so they often have low miles and decent maintenance, and depreciation makes them cheap.

benjaminh

explorerx4 said:

The best vehicle choice?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/what-s-the-most-attractive-car-a-guy-can-drive-part-1/vi-AA1LwgOD?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=68d85a2c891540c1ac9014dda3085ada&ei=26

A Camry seems like a good answer to me!