Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy

nice looking unit. and only about $7k cheaper than that F350!

roadburner

Yesterday I saw an E60 525i with a loud f*rt can exhaust. I was in the C43 and would have handed his *ss to him had my wife not been in the car.

roadburner

I dropped off my 2021 Sahara 4xe at my dealer today for the 95B recall. The service writer knew exactly what was involved and she thanked me for charging the HV battery before bringing it in. There was another 4xe in the service lane and I overheard another writer telling a customer that their Jeep was getting a new HV battery. I've been very pleased with this dealer (it's where I bought the 4xe as well as the 1999 Sahara I bought in 2002).

xwesx

When I brought the F250 up from NC, I came up I95, dropped off at 17 to 522 up to Bedford, PA, then up I99 toward Altoona before heading west on 422 to I79. Somewhat roundabout, but no tolls and gorgeous country on a day to equal it. Some of the grades on those roads were impressive, and there were a few times that I got hung up behind various machines that were just crawling up the grades.

That Powerstroke can flat out MOVE that 9,500# beast; I could zip by some of those vehicles in an instant, which was quite convenient given the limited visibility and 55 mph speed limits. And, I still managed 19(ish) miles per gallon on the trip with a single tank of fuel (and some to spare!) for the distance traveled that day.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

she blew by tons of cars and remarked 'This thing has unlimited power'.

That's it. Should I ever meet her, I will bow and say, "Chancellor Palpatine."

benjaminh

stickguy said:

OK experts, what is considered normal, top tier credit, new car loan rates for 60 months? 5.99% seem about right?

If by any chance your daughter might be interested in Outback, Subaru currently has 1.9% for 4 years, and 2.9% for up to 6 years on the Outback only. That's would save thousands over regular market-rate financing of 6-8%. A loaded Premium Outback lists for about $35k, and a discount of around 2k might be possible.

https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tools/special-offers.html?offers=LowRate

stickguy

She was not a fan.

benjaminh

Too much of a station wagon?

stickguy

Style, size is bigger than she wants. General “vibe”. Plus would incur some offsetting costs having to pay the disposition fee on the lease.

ab348

explorerx4 said:

When we went lot walking on Sunday my wife liked this one.
https://www.autonationfordamherst.com/new/Ford/2024-Ford-F-350-4a85f15cac18363d30b1999c4f99c0e8.htm

If a woman owns a Brodozer, what is the proper term for it? Sisdozer?

benjaminh

The Mazda CX-5 and CX-50 both currently have 0.9%, but only for 36 months. A Preferred model for both of these is somewhere around $34k or so. Nice vehicles, although in a few areas we thought the Subaru was better.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

I dropped off my 2021 Sahara 4xe at my dealer today for the 95B recall. The service writer knew exactly what was involved and she thanked me for charging the HV battery before bringing it in. There was another 4xe in the service lane and I overheard another writer telling a customer that their Jeep was getting a new HV battery. I've been very pleased with this dealer (it's where I bought the 4xe as well as the 1999 Sahara I bought in 2002).

Is that THE BIG ONE? I thought according to the recall we weren't supposed to charge it?

explorerx4

i think the last car I had with a column shift was my 1974 Plymouth Duster.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

this is captive credit through the dealer. So much easier. Plus turning in a lease early and getting waivers on that, so possible need to go through them. In any case seems to be certainly reasonable.

I think half a point spiff for the dealer is about right and you might not have a choice to shop elsewhere. Even 5.49% would be too much for me but I’m used to only financing at 0-2%. What’s your kid’s credit score?

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

When we went lot walking on Sunday my wife liked this one.
https://www.autonationfordamherst.com/new/Ford/2024-Ford-F-350-4a85f15cac18363d30b1999c4f99c0e8.htm

Is she planning on hauling a trailer full of bricks?😂. That’s actually not a bad price seeing that regular F-150s are going for at least that.

stickguy

@oldfarmer50 said:
I think half a point spiff for the dealer is about right and you might not have a choice to shop elsewhere. Even 5.49% would be too much for me but I’m used to only financing at 0-2%. What’s your kid’s credit score?

Probably high.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

And they wonder why Accord sales are down. They need a hardy thump on the head.

It’s unbelievable that dealers are still pulling that ADM nonsense but having dealt with a Honda dealer recently I can tell you that they seem to feel entitled to charge whatever they want. Maybe Honda customers are conditioned to just lay down.

I would hope that this deer is an anomaly. Dealers around these parts are discounting Accords, as well as their best seller, the CR-V. Dealer addendum stickers would all but stop sales around here.

stickguy

@benjaminh said:
The Mazda CX-5 and CX-50 both currently have 0.9%, but only for 36 months. A Preferred model for both of these is somewhere around $34k or so. Nice vehicles, although in a few areas we thought the Subaru was better.

She is getting a hybrid premium. So the mid level model. Adds a lot of features she wants. Sticker on those is about $39.5 +/-

36 months might be too steep a payment even with low interest rate.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

She is getting a hybrid premium. So the mid level model. Adds a lot of features she wants. Sticker on those is about $39.5 +/-

36 months might be too steep a payment even with low interest rate.

Mazda only offers the 0.9 on the regular gas models. For the Hybrid CX-50 they do have somewhat reduced financing, but it's 4.9% for 60 months, even with that the monthly payment is about $790 a month.

Has she considered a lease?

The gas savings of a Mazda CX-50 hybrid compared to a regular Mazda CX-50 will only be about $400 a year if she drives about 12k a year. The higher interest rate is going to more than erase that savings, although there will be a small benefit to the planet + the hybrid has more power.

benjaminh

For a non-hybrid CX-50 with the 0.9% the monthly payment over 3 years is higher than the payment over 5 years with the hybrid. But the savings on interest is almost $5000 for the life of the loan.

explorerx4

@xwesx,
I like taking 522 to relax a bit on the way back from the Outer Banks after dealing with getting off the island, I-64 and I-81.

benjaminh

@stickguy : The hybrid CX-50 hybrid has a list price that's about $3700 more than the regular CX-50. Plus with some negotiating it's probably possible to get a thousand off of a regular CX-50, while the hybrids are hot and so are going at full msrp. So the real-world the difference in price between the regular CX-50 and hybrid is well over 4k. Then the interest rate is higher on the hybrid too, making the difference in price with the higher interest actually more like 8k. Since the gas savings is about $400 a year with the hybrid, that means it would take about 20 years for that to pay off. Since most people only own a car for 3-10 years that's obviously a bad bet.

I'm familiar with this because when we were car shopping early last summer my wife at first wanted a CR-V hybrid. The problem was the the list price of the CR-V hybrid was somewhere around 5k more than a competing non-hybrid Mazda or Subaru. Plus the Honda dealer added on a 3k protection package + the interest rate was higher. The result was that a CR-V hybrid actually cost about 10k more than a non-hybrid Outback. Again, it would have saved us about 400 a year in gas, but that would take about 25 years to pay off, which just didn't make sense. Plus we actually liked the Outback better than the CR-V anyway.

One difference between the CX-50 and the CX-5 is that the 50 has a torsion-beam rear suspension, which I didn't like and could feel. The CX-5 has an independent rear suspension, plus costs slightly less.

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

She is getting a hybrid premium. So the mid level model. Adds a lot of features she wants. Sticker on those is about $39.5 +/-

36 months might be too steep a payment even with low interest rate.

Mazda only offers the 0.9 on the regular gas models. For the Hybrid CX-50 they do have somewhat reduced financing, but it's 4.9% for 60 months, even with that the monthly payment is about $790 a month.

Has she considered a lease?

The gas savings of a Mazda CX-50 hybrid compared to a regular Mazda CX-50 will only be about $400 a year if she drives about 12k a year. The higher interest rate is going to more than erase that savings, although there will be a small benefit to the planet + the hybrid has more power.

If she buys in stickguy’s county the sales tax is only 7% so she might save a few bucks there.

stickguy

She wants a hybrid in general. In this case it is also quicker. A base engine gasser is too pokey and doesn’t want the turbo.

I think the discount is $1,200-1,400 (before rebates). No clue if the non hybrid has bigger discounts.

For the financing I expect her to pay it off quite a bit early. Would put more down if they were not paying for a wedding in June also! Her current Mazda is a lease and she does not want to do another one.

All the reviews I watched were complimentary to the driving experience. Has to be a step up (but feel similar) to the CX-30 she has now. In any case, she loves it which is really what matters!

Reviews overall are also very positive. It’s basically a rav4 underneath too (just with a Mazda ICE).

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

Style, size is bigger than she wants. General “vibe”. Plus would incur some offsetting costs having to pay the disposition fee on the lease.

————————————————
I’ve never leased nor do I ever plan to. But, am I to infer from what you said, that once you lease from a given manufacturer, you’re pretty much locked into that manufacture from then on unless you’re willing to bight the bullet and take a deal that’s probably not as good as you’ll get from the same manufacturer. If I’m right you better hit a home run the first time around.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

Style, size is bigger than she wants. General “vibe”. Plus would incur some offsetting costs having to pay the disposition fee on the lease.

————————————————
I’ve never leased nor do I ever plan to. But, am I to infer from what you said, that once you lease from a given manufacturer, you’re pretty much locked into that manufacture from then on unless you’re willing to bight the bullet and take a deal that’s probably not as good as you’ll get from the same manufacturer. If I’m right you better hit a home run the first time around.

jmonroe

Not true. My last two leases were a Hyundai, followed by a Volkswagen. Got out of the Hyundai lease a couple of months early (with damage and over miles), and kept the same approximate payment when I leased the VW.

jmonroe1

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

Style, size is bigger than she wants. General “vibe”. Plus would incur some offsetting costs having to pay the disposition fee on the lease.

————————————————
I’ve never leased nor do I ever plan to. But, am I to infer from what you said, that once you lease from a given manufacturer, you’re pretty much locked into that manufacture from then on unless you’re willing to bight the bullet and take a deal that’s probably not as good as you’ll get from the same manufacturer. If I’m right you better hit a home run the first time around.

jmonroe

Not true. My last two leases were a Hyundai, followed by a Volkswagen. Got out of the Hyundai lease a couple of months early (with damage and over miles), and kept the same approximate payment when I leased the VW.

————————————————
OK, I inferred wrong but in @stickguy’s case he specifically said his daughter would take a hit if she moved on and she didn’t like the thought of that. I’ve heard the same thing from a couple people I know that have leased. However, fortunately for them, saving the most bucks wasn’t important to them so they moved on and didn’t worry about it. FWIW, one of them had a BMW and moved on to a Benz lease and the other had a Honda and moved on to a Subie lease.

Just curious but overall, how often would you guesstimate that, money wise, you are better off staying with the same manufacturer?

jmonroe

au1994

No, other than back to back BMW’s once, I’ve never leased from the same make. A good deal is a good deal no matter what and I’ve often been able to trade out with a month, maybe 2 left into a new lease this avoiding any disposition charges by negotiating them as part of the trade in. Admittedly not as prevalent as it used to be because some manufacturers are not allowing it I am told.

Both the Q5 and Grand Cherokee should be completely new models by the time our current leases are up so there’s a possibility we just roll into 2 new models.

Both of us are satisfied and other than having to reset the Audi MMI (thanks, YouTube) both have been trouble free.

xwesx

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

When we went lot walking on Sunday my wife liked this one.
https://www.autonationfordamherst.com/new/Ford/2024-Ford-F-350-4a85f15cac18363d30b1999c4f99c0e8.htm

If a woman owns a Brodozer, what is the proper term for it? Sisdozer?

That's a GOMFW. You can use your imagination as to what that acronym abbreviates!

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

@xwesx,
I like taking 522 to relax a bit on the way back from the Outer Banks after dealing with getting off the island, I-64 and I-81.

It was a beautiful stretch of road! Very busy on the day I went through, but I'm glad you (or someone on here, I don't rightly recall which of you) suggested it. Even with a fair bit of traffic (labor day Sunday), it was still a much more relaxed drive than the interstate(s).

xwesx

I think we did an exercise several years ago where we looked at TCO over a lease period between leasing and buying/financing. If you keep the car for only the lease period, the lease wins. Within the lifecycle of leasing, the incentives for "pulling ahead" only really matter when it comes to your final out of pocket cost on the last lease. Either way, you're still on the hook for a new vehicle.

au1994

And I am perfectly ok with being on the hook every 36 months, or less. I had a great deal on a 24 mo on my 328i. Never see those anymore.

ab348

stickguy said:

Reviews overall are also very positive. It’s basically a rav4 underneath too (just with a Mazda ICE).

Not exactly. The Mazda hybrid uses a Toyota ICE paired with the hybrid motor. So the identical drivetrain as a RAV4 hybrid.

Since she has a CX-30 she probably has mastered the steep learning curve for Mazda’s antique infotainment system. I think that would be a big impediment to my ever considering a Mazda product.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

roadburner said:

I dropped off my 2021 Sahara 4xe at my dealer today for the 95B recall. The service writer knew exactly what was involved and she thanked me for charging the HV battery before bringing it in. There was another 4xe in the service lane and I overheard another writer telling a customer that their Jeep was getting a new HV battery. I've been very pleased with this dealer (it's where I bought the 4xe as well as the 1999 Sahara I bought in 2002).

Is that THE BIG ONE? I thought according to the recall we weren't supposed to charge it?

Yes. But the HV battery has to have at least a 75% charge to perform the drive cycle test, so if the Jeep arrives at the dealer fully charged it saves the dealer time.

roadburner

Speaking of the recall, my dealer texted me at 2:30 pm with the news that the 95B recall was complete on my 2021 Sahara 4xe. No issues- and my Jeep was out of service for less than 24 hours.

nyccarguy

@roadburner said:
Yes. But the HV battery has to have at least a 75% charge to perform the drive cycle test, so if the Jeep arrives at the dealer fully charged it saves the dealer time.

Thanks! Good to know. I have an appointment for ours next week. I’ll plug it in.

nyccarguy

@xwesx said:
I think we did an exercise several years ago where we looked at TCO over a lease period between leasing and buying/financing. If you keep the car for only the lease period, the lease wins. Within the lifecycle of leasing, the incentives for "pulling ahead" only really matter when it comes to your final out of pocket cost on the last lease. Either way, you're still on the hook for a new vehicle.

Part of the charm of the leasehackr calculator is that when you input all of the pertinent data, it spits out a score on the bottom. The score is in years. As in how many years it would take to lease the car at this price to own it.

If your score is 5/6/7 years, then you are better off financing.

stickguy

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

Reviews overall are also very positive. It’s basically a rav4 underneath too (just with a Mazda ICE).

Not exactly. The Mazda hybrid uses a Toyota ICE paired with the hybrid motor. So the identical drivetrain as a RAV4 hybrid.

Since she has a CX-30 she probably has mastered the steep learning curve for Mazda’s antique infotainment system. I think that would be a big impediment to my ever considering a Mazda product.

really? I thought they used their own engine. Not sure where I got that from, but makes sense they get the entire Toyota powertrain.

the infotainment IMO is one of those things that once you get used to it, is perfectly fine. She seems to have no issues and easily gets it to do whatever she wants (I know she always just plugs her phone in and streams stuff). The one day I used it, I couldn't get it to do much of anything (partly because it was all set up for her phone).

Actually the RDX was the same thing. It was different, and all kinds of drama from people on how impossible it is, terrible, yada yada. And when I tried to use it in my SILs RDX (she got one before us) it made little sense. But once I got one and read the instructions and played with it, no issues at all. I actually kind of like it, and there is some smart logic behind the design. Matter of opinion of course if you want a touch screen or not (some plusses and minuses to that for sure).

stickguy

the lease comment has a couple of components. first is she would like to get out of the lease a few months early, and Mazda will pay off the rest of the payments. And waive the disposition fee (not sure what that is on her car). They also have a loyalty rebate. If she went elsewhere and traded it in, all the goes away too but pretty sure it is appraising at less than the residual so would cost her on that end. And no loyalty of course.

worst option is taking it to the end and just giving it back, where you have to pay Mazda finance to take it off your hands (disposition fee) and the other brand doesn't give you any kind of spif.

stickguy

latest update, after much discussion she told the salesman that has been very patient with her she wanted to go ahead and do it. and found out they just sold that unit. So they are getting all her info together while they go on the hunt for another one (she wants a specific color combo, jet black (good luck with that since she is not known for washing her car!) over red leather which looks really sharp. The dealer is also going to appraise her car again to see if it works out better to just give it back, or trade it in, and go from there. Advantage to trading it in, no worries about the lease end inspection and getting dinged for damage! That might be important in this case.

roadburner

@nyccarguy said:

@roadburner said:
Yes. But the HV battery has to have at least a 75% charge to perform the drive cycle test, so if the Jeep arrives at the dealer fully charged it saves the dealer time.

Thanks! Good to know. I have an appointment for ours next week. I’ll plug it in.

I didn’t charge mine until the night before I took it to the dealership. Some people have been charging as normal while some have parked their Jeep two miles away and won’t get within 50 feet of it without wearing a pair of asbestos underwear.

laurasdada

roadburner said:

@nyccarguy said:

@roadburner said:

Yes. But the HV battery has to have at least a 75% charge to perform the drive cycle test, so if the Jeep arrives at the dealer fully charged it saves the dealer time.

Thanks! Good to know. I have an appointment for ours next week. I’ll plug it in.

I didn’t charge mine until the night before I took it to the dealership. Some people have been charging as normal while some have parked their Jeep two miles away and won’t get within 50 feet of it without wearing a pair of asbestos underwear.

Almost four years of PHEV charging (120v) in the garage and I, along with my humble abode, remain singe-free.
Knock wood veneer.

roadburner

@laurasdada said:
Almost four years of PHEV charging (120v) in the garage and I, along with my humble abode, remain singe-free.
Knock wood veneer.

I’ve had the same experience. The thing is, when the 95B recall was issued Jeep recommended not charging the Jeep as well as parking it outside. Some people immediately freaked out while the majority were at least borderline reasonable.

Michaell

I wasn’t sure which was going to come 1st–10 years of ownership or 70,000 miles on the odometer.

Yesterday, on my way to work, I got my answer:



I only missed by 24 days.

stickguy

If I keep either that long for us definitely years.

RDX is a month short of 5 years and is sitting at about 28k. Ford is just under 8k and 3 months short of 2 years. And these days our usage is actually down!

sda

My SIL has a,2018 RDX Advance she bought new. It is closing in on 80k. The only issue she's had is the pano roof shade jammed and had to be replaced under warranty

laurasdada

roadburner said:

@laurasdada said:

Almost four years of PHEV charging (120v) in the garage and I, along with my humble abode, remain singe-free.

Knock wood veneer.

I’ve had the same experience. The thing is, when the 95B recall was issued Jeep recommended not charging the Jeep as well as parking it outside. Some people immediately freaked out while the majority were at least borderline reasonable.

To be honest, if Audi issued a similar recommendation, it would certainly begin my "time to consider moving-on" wheels spinning.
The closest issue for the A7, iirc, was to not use the portable EVSE supplied with the car for 240v (120 was okey dokey; I only have 120 in the garage), it was swapped out under recall for a more robust unit.
Growing pains; but I still enjoy the option of local drives without waking the sleeping dinosaur. Still considering a Lucid lease, if the wheel of spending lands on "moving on!"

au1994

laurasdada said:

roadburner said:

@laurasdada said:

Almost four years of PHEV charging (120v) in the garage and I, along with my humble abode, remain singe-free.

Knock wood veneer.

I’ve had the same experience. The thing is, when the 95B recall was issued Jeep recommended not charging the Jeep as well as parking it outside. Some people immediately freaked out while the majority were at least borderline reasonable.

To be honest, if Audi issued a similar recommendation, it would certainly begin my "time to consider moving-on" wheels spinning.
The closest issue for the A7, iirc, was to not use the portable EVSE supplied with the car for 240v (120 was okey dokey; I only have 120 in the garage), it was swapped out under recall for a more robust unit.
Growing pains; but I still enjoy the option of local drives without waking the sleeping dinosaur. Still considering a Lucid lease, if the wheel of spending lands on "moving on!"



The Lucid is a very attractive package. I am concerned with long-term viability of the company though. The upcoming SUV looks cool too.

stickguy

I am way too risk adverse to get involved with a potentially unstable company.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

I wasn’t sure which was going to come 1st–10 years of ownership or 70,000 miles on the odometer.

Yesterday, on my way to work, I got my answer:



I only missed by 24 days.

I’ve got a 2015 that only has 19k miles on it. I’ll own the truck one full year at the end of this month and I’m trying to put 2000 on it by then.