Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

greg1288 · February 8

Congrats on the punch! Nice car! I like it! Thank-you for supporting my state's economy! Enjoy

The profits did but sorry but the sales tax went to Hochul

jmonroe1 · February 8

explorerx4 said:
@jmonroe1,
Ram's just don't do it for me. GM's trucks suck fuel like it's 50 cents a gallon.

————————————————
From everything I’ve heard the interior and the pricing is what sells Ram’s. Being it’s a Chrysler product, I’d do what our poster buddy @tjc78 did. I’d only have one as a lease and even then I’d be holding my breath until I turned it in. Although I think @tjc78 has had good luck with his.

jmonroe

sda · February 8

I understand Ram has the best almost car like ride of its competitors.

corvette · February 8

@greg1288 - congrats on the punch... first one of 2025, I think!

oldfarmer50 · February 8

jmonroe1 said:

explorerx4 said:
Locally, on a Ram truck, ;ooking at the Ram website, I can get $7250 in cash incentives plus a $1250 finance incentive.
ALthough F Series sales were up 20% in January, I hope they will up their incentives also.
————————————————
Why rely on hope, just get the Ram.

jmonroe

According to the internet experts Ram is looking at 30-50% price cuts soon.

oldfarmer50 · February 8

explorerx4 said:
@jmonroe1,
Ram's just don't do it for me. GM's trucks suck fuel like it's 50 cents a gallon.

You want bad, try a Nissan Titan.😩

oldfarmer50 · February 8

sda said:
I understand Ram has the best almost car like ride of its competitors.

Yes it does. Followed by Chevy with Ford being the most truck-like. But nowadays all pickups ride like cars.

au1994 · February 8

To answer the earlier question, I just saw something on FB that showed the combined Silverado and Sierra sales at 560k to 460k for the F150.

venture · February 8

benjaminh said:
@venture If you feel like saying, how are things going with your 2025 Forester? Any features you especially like? Any issues or problems?

Everything is OK with it. My wife drives it exclusively so as far as features, I have no idea. What I do know, from the few times I have ridden with her is she does not use most of the features I paid extra for.

Her HVAC is set on either HI or LO the few times I've been in the car, even though it has dual zone automatic climate control. She regulates the temperature by using the fan speed. It makes me nuts, but I've learned to keep my trap shut.

She has adaptive cruise control - never used it and never uses cruise at all.

I could go on... It only has about 4,000 miles on it.

I really like the subtle changes to the 2025's and the Autum Green Metallic color.

qbrozen · February 8

Spent the better part of the day with the truck.
Lots to unpack here.

I. Discovered the side of the crossmember still attached really wasn’t. The PO shoved a pipe through it. Yikes.

II. I can’t remove the bed. Well, not unless I’m willing to cut apart the bedliner, which I’m not.

III. The cordless grinder was not up to the task, and I am now very surprisingly impressed with a $22 Walmart corded angle grinder.

IV. My arms are incredibly sore from 5 hours of cutting and grinding rust.

V. The repair kit came in pieces. That was unexpected. The pic was of it all together. Even the shock mount has to be welded on, and it is disappointingly skimpy compared to stock.

VI. Still figuring out how to properly weld.

VII. Once I got the crossmember free of the frame rails, I found several pounds of dirt hiding in the frame. That’s fun.

VIII. It’s going to be tough to cover everything with rust reformer without dying from asphyxiation.

explorerx4 · February 8

@au1994,
That's probably right for Light Duty models. For Ford that excludes F-250, F-350, etc...

benjaminh · February 8

@qbrozen That's rough work. Hang in there. Have you considered a new truck?

stickguy · February 8

q, highly recommend a respirator of some kind when spraying that stuff. Even the Youtube guys put one on. eventually.

is it a drop in bedliner? They are supposed to be removable (aren't they just in with double sided tape? )Though after that many years many have become one with the metal.

You also are not selling me on an old truck! Unless I pick one up on a business trip to Dallas! Should be less rust down there. And a big selection.

stickguy · February 8

Venture, your wife sounds like mine. She sucker punched me into getting the fancy Acura. And pretty much never uses the extra features. She still keeps asking me how to answer a phone call when one comes in. And we have had the car for almost 5 years.

Cruise control, I know she would never consider using it, if she even had any idea how (no, she doesn't). she can adjust the temperature and fan speed (we don't use auto). And turn on the heated seats and change radio stations. I think she can change input source (to Spotify). Getting carplay working right for google maps is hit or miss. We never even discuss things like the drive mode selector.

stickguy · February 8

from reading road tests and checking them out at car shows or the dealer, if I had to get a full size PU it would be Ram first, then Ford and Chevy a distant 3rd.

I did discover that my wife's nephew got himself the PU we have been talking about for years. Picked up a new Tundra at New Years.

jmonroe1 · February 8

qbrozen said:
Spent the better part of the day with the truck.

Lots to unpack here.

I. Discovered the side of the crossmember still attached really wasn’t. The PO shoved a pipe through it. Yikes.

II. I can’t remove the bed. Well, not unless I’m willing to cut apart the bedliner, which I’m not.

III. The cordless grinder was not up to the task, and I am now very surprisingly impressed with a $22 Walmart corded angle grinder.

IV. My arms are incredibly sore from 5 hours of cutting and grinding rust.

V. The repair kit came in pieces. That was unexpected. The pic was of it all together. Even the shock mount has to be welded on, and it is disappointingly skimpy compared to stock.

VI. Still figuring out how to properly weld.

VII. Once I got the crossmember free of the frame rails, I found several pounds of dirt hiding in the frame. That’s fun.

VIII. It’s going to be tough to cover everything with rust reformer without dying from asphyxiation.

————————————————
Welding is something I never learned how to do. When I was working my way through night school for the last two years I landed a job with a very large engineering company that I eventually retired from (they were very big on continuing your education and liked the idea that I was torturing myself by going to night school). Anyway, I worked in the installation/maintenance group that was comprised of all of the trades. I was an Electrician Grade B (fancy name for a helper). There were two expert welders in the group and each of them tried to give me some pointers a couple times about how to weld. I failed miserably, all I could do was make smoke and grapes.

If you don’t think you’re up to the welding task at this time, you could advertise for a welder to give you a quote. If that doesn’t work see if there is an after high school trade school in your area and see if they can recommend a young graduate. I know a couple guys who did that for carpentry work and plumbing and they were both very satisfied. It seems like the young guys, while they want to make a buck, are more interested in getting experience.

Just a thought.

jmonroe

roadburner · February 8

benjaminh said:
Three years ago when vehicles were still in short supply even my local Hyundai dealer seemed to be charging above list for most of their cars. Just looked at their website for the first time in a while, and prices have plunged for some vehicles. Here's a new Sonata sel with awd, heated seats, xm, Michelin tires, wireless android auto/carpay, a first aid kit and lots of other stuff for $24k. They must be losing lots money at that price. I'm guessing/hoping that the Hyundai/KIA engine issues have now been fixed?

https://www.oxmoorhyundai.com/inventory/new-2024-hyundai-sonata-sel-awd-4d-sedan-kmhl64ja4ra424777/

A problem with Oxmorons (one of many) is they install that moronic Pulse flashing brake light on both new and used vehicles. That is always a hard pass for me.

roadburner · February 8

The C43

jmonroe1 said:

Sandman6472 said:
Like OF, prefer knobs & hate touch screens. Luckily, mine still has knobs and the steering wheel buttons to get to what I need. Like to keep things simple in my life so am happy with my old tech in the Golf. Many vehicles with those touch screens have dirty finger prints all over them when I get in which kind of freaks me out. I'm guessing most folks don't wash their hands as much as I do & noticed I wash them ore at work. Also carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer in my backpack which I do use frequently. Another thing I notice frequently is how much nasty stuff folks leave in their returned rentals! Just awful some of the stuff I find and wonder if these folks trash their personal vehicles in the same manner? I know I had to do some extra cleaning with the vehicle I rented the beginning of the month. Finding out that most people are slobs!!
————————————————
My Dad had a very crude expression about folks like that and every time he said it, it drove my poor Mom up a wall. When he saw sheer laziness he’d say, “some folks are so lazy they’d **it in bed and kick it out with their feet”. I learned this when I was around 6 or 7. I’ve seen this going through life more times than I can count and it sounds like you have also. Some things NEVER change.

jmonroe

My wife worked at my son's school and often handled the car line. She was constantly amazed at the number of cars that had interiors resembling the inside of a dumpster. No way would either of us tolerate any garbage in our cars- or in the luggage compartment.

roadburner · February 8

The voice recognition in the C43 works pretty well- as well or better than the system in my M235i, although the C43 voice recognition needs about a minute to boot up on the first start of the day. I use it primarily for entering navigation addresses and radio station selection. I use the Jeep's system primarily to select radio stations.

venture · February 8

stickguy said:
Venture, your wife sounds like mine. She sucker punched me into getting the fancy Acura. And pretty much never uses the extra features. She still keeps asking me how to answer a phone call when one comes in. And we have had the car for almost 5 years.

Cruise control, I know she would never consider using it, if she even had any idea how (no, she doesn't). she can adjust the temperature and fan speed (we don't use auto). And turn on the heated seats and change radio stations. I think she can change input source (to Spotify). Getting carplay working right for google maps is hit or miss. We never even discuss things like the drive mode selector.

She can answer and talk on the phone. Surprised me. I'm pretty sure she can use the heated seats. If you can't find that on a Subaru there is no hope!

She has one radio station set. One!

oldfarmer50 · February 8

stickguy said:
from reading road tests and checking them out at car shows or the dealer, if I had to get a full size PU it would be Ram first, then Ford and Chevy a distant 3rd.

I did discover that my wife's nephew got himself the PU we have been talking about for years. Picked up a new Tundra at New Years.

Some of the Rams around here are the most rusty pickups around. You hardly ever see front render rot on Fords or Chevys but the Rams rot right through the fender into the bumper. I remember one joker at work claiming that on a still night you could hear them rust.

stickguy · February 8

forgot to add, for that reason, would probably lease one.

Around here you see major rot on all 3. Older GMs seem to be really bad. Was next to one today that had half the bumper, half the tailgate, and most of the rockers and lower bed rusted off. Not sure how it was all holding together, and I assume the frame was on life support too.

corvette · February 8

roadburner said:
A problem with Oxmorons (one of many) is they install that moronic Pulse flashing brake light on both new and used vehicles. That is always a hard pass for me.

My parents bought their Ranger there... I need to check to see whether that stupid thing is installed on it. It irritates me to see all the vehicles around town with the blinking third brake light... BMW did it right by flashing the hazards if the ABS engages.

nyccarguy · February 8

@venture

“Her HVAC is set on either HI or LO the few times I've been in the car, even though it has dual zone automatic climate control. She regulates the temperature by using the fan speed. It makes me nuts, but I've learned to keep my trap shut.”

Hysterical!

qbrozen · February 8

@stickguy said:
q, highly recommend a respirator of some kind when spraying that stuff. Even the Youtube guys put one on. eventually.

is it a drop in bedliner? They are supposed to be removable (aren't they just in with double sided tape? )Though after that many years many have become one with the metal.

You also are not selling me on an old truck! Unless I pick one up on a business trip to Dallas! Should be less rust down there. And a big selection.

It is a drop-in, sort of. It is a Line-X. Apparently it gets sealed in. All of the edges are basically spray-in liner holding the pieces down and together. So the only way to remove is to cut it out, from all reports I read and viewed.

ab348 · February 8

@greg1288 - That’s an interesting-looking vehicle. I like the exterior design. I have never seen one of those on the roads here. The paint job is, uh, interesting. Reminds me of a raccoon.

It seems to have a lot of power but I’m surprised by your assessment of the interior given the price point. I saw a few early reviews or assessments of it when they were previewed to the automotive press and as seems usual for most of those reports, most were very positive towards it. Good to hear a real-world opinion.

nyccarguy · February 8

Drove into NYC to see a play tonight. Hell’s Kitchen featuring the music of Alicia Keys. It was a quick 1ish hour ride in with very light traffic. When we got out of the show, there was 3”
Of heavy, wet, unplowed snow on the ground. The roads were a mess and even the major highways weren’t plowed yet. I realize this a regular Tuesday in April for @xwesx . It took us a little over an hour and a half to get home. Our Highlander and its Cross Climate tires was up to the task and handled the conditions like a champ! We hit 65,500 miles (our car will be 3 at the end of the month) on the way home. I think we are going to pass @Michaell ’s 10 year old Outback in a few months.

Michaell · February 8

nyccarguy said:
Drove into NYC to see a play tonight. Hell’s Kitchen featuring the music of Alicia Keys. It was a quick 1ish hour ride in with very light traffic. When we got out of the show, there was 3”

Of heavy, wet, unplowed snow on the ground. The roads were a mess and even the major highways weren’t plowed yet. I realize this a regular Tuesday in April for @xwesx . It took us a little over an hour and a half to get home. Our Highlander and its Cross Climate tires was up to the task and handled the conditions like a champ! We hit 65,500 miles (our car will be 3 at the end of the month) on the way home. I think we are going to pass @Michaell ’s 10 year old Outback in a few months.

How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.

benjaminh · February 9

Just looked it up, and I bought CrossClimate2 tires for my TLX back in August of 2021, and so about three and a half years ago. They now have 37,000 miles on them, and they look like they are maybe halfway through in terms of tread. Consumer Reports estimated that CC2s might go as much as 90k miles (!), but that seems optimistic. But even 75k would be 15,000 more miles than Michelin says they'll last. Even though I do road trips in my Acura it looks like I'll need to replace the tires based on years before mileage. Don't most recommend new tires after six years regardless of mileage? So based on that I'm only 2.5 years away from getting new ones. Prices have gone up: $750 for 4 @ 225/55R17 at Costco in 2021 compared to $900 today for the same tires.

I have been getting them rotated with every oil change, and so wear seems even. I was taking advantage of the free Costco rotations for a while, but that added an inconvenient service trip I didn't otherwise need to do. Yes, I could do a shop, but even with that I was often waiting almost an hour after that, and so to pay myself for my time doing it at the dealer seemed better. Plus if the dealer doesn't rotate the tires they don't check the brakes. So for me the Costco rotations didn't pan out the way I thought.

Anyway, these CC2 tires still seem worth it. We had our biggest snow storm in many years recently, and even with only two-wheel drive the Acura with the CC2s was able to handle it.

The Subaru on the same route, however, when I drove them back to back to get gas for both cars as we were getting snowed in was not surprisingly much better in the snow, even though the Outback came with Yokohama tires that aren't three peak mountain snowflake rated. The TLX was able to handle the snow, but it was sliding around sometimes, especially on turns even taken at very low speeds. The Outback in contrast was just very stable and controlled at all times on the same route and driving the same way. The symmetrical full-time awd also seems better than our CR-V in the snow.

benjaminh · February 9

Turns out Michelin says their tires can go up to ten years before replacement...

"2. Ten years is a maximum

If the tires haven't been replaced 10 years after their date of manufacture, as a precaution, Michelin recommends replacing them with new tires. Even if they appear to be in usable condition and have not worn down to the tread wear indicator."

https://www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-buying-guide/when-do-i-need-new-tires

That's good news for me.

The Goodyear tires that came with the TLX seemed like they were having "rubber rot" after only three years. It was weird and worrying. Maybe a bad batch of materials? Although actually the car had been sitting around on the dealer lot for six months before I bought it, and maybe the tires were six months older than the date of the car being manufactured. Still that would mean the tires were only four years old, and it seems like quality control wasn't what it should have been. Have to say it put me off the Goodyear brand, which previously I'd liked and purchased a few times for various cars. But Michelin just seems like a better tire and worth the extra price. And anyway, maybe I'll get to go 7 years on these Michelins, which really makes them economical based on mileage and years.

oldfarmer50 · February 9

qbrozen said:

@stickguy said:

q, highly recommend a respirator of some kind when spraying that stuff. Even the Youtube guys put one on. eventually.

is it a drop in bedliner? They are supposed to be removable (aren't they just in with double sided tape? )Though after that many years many have become one with the metal.

You also are not selling me on an old truck! Unless I pick one up on a business trip to Dallas! Should be less rust down there. And a big selection.

It is a drop-in, sort of. It is a Line-X. Apparently it gets sealed in. All of the edges are basically spray-in liner holding the pieces down and together. So the only way to remove is to cut it out, from all reports I read and viewed.

I don’t know if that is brilliant or horrible. Would such an installation prevent dirt and moisture from getting between the bed and liner? If so it might be better than the liner I had in my old Toyota which was just dropped in and secured with clamps. By the time I sold it, there was nothing left of the bed but the liner.

oldfarmer50 · February 9

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
Drove into NYC to see a play tonight. Hell’s Kitchen featuring the music of Alicia Keys. It was a quick 1ish hour ride in with very light traffic. When we got out of the show, there was 3”

Of heavy, wet, unplowed snow on the ground. The roads were a mess and even the major highways weren’t plowed yet. I realize this a regular Tuesday in April for @xwesx . It took us a little over an hour and a half to get home. Our Highlander and its Cross Climate tires was up to the task and handled the conditions like a champ! We hit 65,500 miles (our car will be 3 at the end of the month) on the way home. I think we are going to pass @Michaell ’s 10 year old Outback in a few months.

How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.

The CCs on my Kia perform noticeably better in snow than the disappointing OEMs. I haven’t had any opportunity to drive in any real snow this winter until today where it looks like we got 6” of new snow. Just from coming out of the driveway I can feel the difference. It’s funny, as a kid I’d drive all winter on bald snow tires and take pride in my ability to negotiate the spinning and sliding but now I’d rather spend a few more dollars to feel secure.

kyfdx · February 9

Michelin Pilot 4 A/S on the GTI. Had them for a little over four years. But, with 23K miles, they are just about worn out. Which means I've had more fun driving than the rest of you.

qbrozen · February 9

@oldfarmer50 said:
I don’t know if that is brilliant or horrible. Would such an installation prevent dirt and moisture from getting between the bed and liner? If so it might be better than the liner I had in my old Toyota which was just dropped in and secured with clamps. By the time I sold it, there was nothing left of the bed but the liner.

I can only say the bottom of the bed looks very good.

stickguy · February 9

if the Continentals on the Acura ever wear out, I would probably get the CCs. Or maybe Vredesteins with the 3 peaks. I definitely need something with some snow capability up here! We are currently snowed in again.

nyccarguy · February 9

@Michaell said:
How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.

They performed admirably in the bad weather. I just checked. We e had them for just about 30K miles. They are wearing very nicely. Maybe 1/2 way through. Our OEM tires (Bridgestone?) were shot at this point. So yes. I’m happy.

sda · February 9

That looks soothing. Time for an Irish coffee.

sda · February 9

The Good Year Assurance tires on mom’s CR-V are 7.5 years old and have 8/32 tread, evenly worn, no signs of cracking. They were replaced at 65k and now just under 77k. Rotated and rebalanced yesterday. The dealer and Discount Tire suggested tire replacement soon due to their age. As mom doesn’t do highway driving and rarely ventures more than 5 miles for her house, all roads with speed limit 45 or less, replacement will happen in the next few months.

kyfdx · February 9

A car being garaged makes a big difference. I’d have a hard time replacing those

venture · February 9

benjaminh said:
Just looked it up, and I bought CrossClimate2 tires for my TLX back in August of 2021, and so about three and a half years ago. They now have 37,000 miles on them, and they look like they are maybe halfway through in terms of tread. Consumer Reports estimated that CC2s might go as much as 90k miles (!), but that seems optimistic. But even 75k would be 15,000 more miles than Michelin says they'll last. Even though I do road trips in my Acura it looks like I'll need to replace the tires based on years before mileage. Don't most recommend new tires after six years regardless of mileage? So based on that I'm only 2.5 years away from getting new ones. Prices have gone up: $750 for 4 @ 225/55R17 at Costco in 2021 compared to $900 today for the same tires.

I have been getting them rotated with every oil change, and so wear seems even. I was taking advantage of the free Costco rotations for a while, but that added an inconvenient service trip I didn't otherwise need to do. Yes, I could do a shop, but even with that I was often waiting almost an hour after that, and so to pay myself for my time doing it at the dealer seemed better. Plus if the dealer doesn't rotate the tires they don't check the brakes. So for me the Costco rotations didn't pan out the way I thought.

Anyway, these CC2 tires still seem worth it. We had our biggest snow storm in many years recently, and even with only two-wheel drive the Acura with the CC2s was able to handle it.

The Subaru on the same route, however, when I drove them back to back to get gas for both cars as we were getting snowed in was not surprisingly much better in the snow, even though the Outback came with Yokohama tires that aren't three peak mountain snowflake rated. The TLX was able to handle the snow, but it was sliding around sometimes, especially on turns even taken at very low speeds. The Outback in contrast was just very stable and controlled at all times on the same route and driving the same way. The symmetrical full-time awd also seems better than our CR-V in the snow.

* *

I replaced the Yokohama Avid GT tires on my Legacy Sport at around 3,000 miles with the CC2 Michelins.

The Yokohama's had a traction rating of B. The letter didn't bother me, but the fact they felt like they were breaking loose on minor curves in the rain was a little unnerving. The CC2's are also rated B but they have the Severe Snow Rated symbol on them that the Yokohama's did not. I can tell the difference. Much better.

On the Forester, the Yokohama's on it have a traction rating of A so I left them alone.

I have 4 Yokohama tires, size 225/50-18 in my garage.

kyfdx · February 9

The OEM tires on my '08 Impreza were terrible. It should be a crime to put tires like that on an AWD vehicle.

jmonroe1 · February 9

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
Drove into NYC to see a play tonight. Hell’s Kitchen featuring the music of Alicia Keys. It was a quick 1ish hour ride in with very light traffic. When we got out of the show, there was 3”

Of heavy, wet, unplowed snow on the ground. The roads were a mess and even the major highways weren’t plowed yet. I realize this a regular Tuesday in April for @xwesx . It took us a little over an hour and a half to get home. Our Highlander and its Cross Climate tires was up to the task and handled the conditions like a champ! We hit 65,500 miles (our car will be 3 at the end of the month) on the way home. I think we are going to pass @Michaell ’s 10 year old Outback in a few months.

How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.
The CCs on my Kia perform noticeably better in snow than the disappointing OEMs. I haven’t had any opportunity to drive in any real snow this winter until today where it looks like we got 6” of new snow. Just from coming out of the driveway I can feel the difference. It’s funny, as a kid I’d drive all winter on bald snow tires and take pride in my ability to negotiate the spinning and sliding but now I’d rather spend a few more dollars to feel secure.

————————————————
I wouldn’t call it “funny”, more like wisdom that comes with age.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · February 9

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
Drove into NYC to see a play tonight. Hell’s Kitchen featuring the music of Alicia Keys. It was a quick 1ish hour ride in with very light traffic. When we got out of the show, there was 3”

Of heavy, wet, unplowed snow on the ground. The roads were a mess and even the major highways weren’t plowed yet. I realize this a regular Tuesday in April for @xwesx . It took us a little over an hour and a half to get home. Our Highlander and its Cross Climate tires was up to the task and handled the conditions like a champ! We hit 65,500 miles (our car will be 3 at the end of the month) on the way home. I think we are going to pass @Michaell ’s 10 year old Outback in a few months.

How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.

————————————————
All tires look good with 18K miles on them unless you’ve abused them. Hell, even you probably looked good at 18K miles. It’s when tires get to around their half-life is when the last half seems to disintegrate rapidly. At least that’s been my experience.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · February 9

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell said:

How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.

They performed admirably in the bad weather. I just checked. We e had them for just about 30K miles. They are wearing very nicely. Maybe 1/2 way through. Our OEM tires (Bridgestone?) were shot at this point. So yes. I’m happy.

————————————————
It’s cloudy here too but without any of that white stuff.

jmonroe

greg1288 · February 9

ab348 said:
@greg1288 - That’s an interesting-looking vehicle. I like the exterior design. I have never seen one of those on the roads here. The paint job is, uh, interesting. Reminds me of a raccoon. It seems to have a lot of power but I’m surprised by your assessment of the interior given the price point. I saw a few early reviews or assessments of it when they were previewed to the automotive press and as seems usual for most of those reports, most were very positive towards it. Good to hear a real-world opinion.

This is the Crown Platinum interior. All black doesn't help. The door panels are plain looking. Overall it is very nice but I would have liked to see some wood or carbon fiber panels on the doors , steering wheel, dash and console. It does have some bronze metal touches but they are small and thin.

Here is a photo of the wife's XT5. The overall design is much more interesting. The matte finish wood is very nice and dash materials are softer. Of course the color also helps.

benjaminh · February 9

A year ago many analysts were still estimating that Tesla sales were going to increase for the next few years at least. But at the moment they seem to be declining, with sales falling in Europe, the US, and China. Difficult to tell if this is temporary or a trend.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/tesla-sales-germany-decline-furthering-161502417.html

Tesla (TSLA) shares are under pressure after the electric vehicle (EV) giant saw a 59% sales decline in Germany last month, furthering the company's recent weak sales in Europe overall.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-sales-fall-uk-france-101743161.html

But the latest UK figures follows a 63% decline in January sales for Tesla in France, drops of 44% and 38% in Sweden and Norway, and a 42% fall in the Netherlands. In California, the largest US car market with more than 1.7 million vehicle registrations in 2024, Tesla sales fell by 12%.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-car-sales-china-fall-143036328.html

Tesla’s (TSLA) car sales in China fell in January as competition from domestic rivals continued to heat up, Arjun Kharpal of CNBC reports. The company sold 63,238 units in January, which was down 11.5% from the 71,447 cars sold in December. Meanwhile, Chinese rival BYD (BYDDF) sold 296,446 pure electric and plug-in hybrids last month.

oldfarmer50 · February 9

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
Drove into NYC to see a play tonight. Hell’s Kitchen featuring the music of Alicia Keys. It was a quick 1ish hour ride in with very light traffic. When we got out of the show, there was 3”

Of heavy, wet, unplowed snow on the ground. The roads were a mess and even the major highways weren’t plowed yet. I realize this a regular Tuesday in April for @xwesx . It took us a little over an hour and a half to get home. Our Highlander and its Cross Climate tires was up to the task and handled the conditions like a champ! We hit 65,500 miles (our car will be 3 at the end of the month) on the way home. I think we are going to pass @Michaell ’s 10 year old Outback in a few months.

How did you like the CC's in the bad weather?

Ours have about 18K on them and still look like new. I don't think I've had a tire wear this well in, like, forever.
The CCs on my Kia perform noticeably better in snow than the disappointing OEMs. I haven’t had any opportunity to drive in any real snow this winter until today where it looks like we got 6” of new snow. Just from coming out of the driveway I can feel the difference. It’s funny, as a kid I’d drive all winter on bald snow tires and take pride in my ability to negotiate the spinning and sliding but now I’d rather spend a few more dollars to feel secure.
————————————————
I wouldn’t call it “funny”, more like wisdom that comes with age.

jmonroe

I’m not so old or so wise that I still don’t enjoy getting twitchy in a car on a snowy road.🤣

qbrozen · February 9

@benjaminh said:
A year ago many analysts were still estimating that Tesla sales were going to increase for the next few years at least. But at the moment they seem to be declining, with sales falling in Europe, the US, and China. Difficult to tell if this is temporary or a trend.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/tesla-sales-germany-decline-furthering-161502417.html

Tesla (TSLA) shares are under pressure after the electric vehicle (EV) giant saw a 59% sales decline in Germany last month, furthering the company's recent weak sales in Europe overall.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-sales-fall-uk-france-101743161.html

But the latest UK figures follows a 63% decline in January sales for Tesla in France, drops of 44% and 38% in Sweden and Norway, and a 42% fall in the Netherlands. In California, the largest US car market with more than 1.7 million vehicle registrations in 2024, Tesla sales fell by 12%.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-car-sales-china-fall-143036328.html

Tesla’s (TSLA) car sales in China fell in January as competition from domestic rivals continued to heat up, Arjun Kharpal of CNBC reports. The company sold 63,238 units in January, which was down 11.5% from the 71,447 cars sold in December. Meanwhile, Chinese rival BYD (BYDDF) sold 296,446 pure electric and plug-in hybrids last month.

Apparently there is a large group up in arms about something Musk. Can’t say I have a clue what. Something about his “political” career

suydam · February 9

Practically speaking, there is much more competition for Tesla everywhere now.

benjaminh · February 9

In terms of the larger picture with EVs in general in the US, just to say the obvious, it's clear that electric vehicles aren't going to take over nearly as quickly as projected just 2-3 years ago. The EV growth plans for GM and Ford, for instance, which were ambitious in early 2023, with the thought that they'd each be selling something like a quarter of a million EVs a year by 2025. I think the real numbers are going to be less than 200,000 each.

According to this article, GM sold a record 114,000 or so EVs in 2024, but it's not clear how much that will grow this year.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2025/01/03/gm-general-motors-2024-us-sales/77353052007/

Meanwhile Ford lost 5 billion on EVs in 2024, which means that for every EV it sold it lost well over $50,000

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-loses-over-5-billion-on-evs-in-2024/ar-AA1yy324

https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/06/18/heres-the-staggering-amount-of-money-ford-loses-on/

And 2024 was the first year that the $7500 tax credit could be taken at point of sale, rather than applied for later. The 7500 credit apparently is still available on many vehicles, and probably will be for a few more months, but it seems likely that before the end of this year it will be gone.

The charging infrastructure expansion around the US, which was supposed to be ramping over the next couple of years, has already been canceled I saw in one story.

https://electrek.co/2025/02/06/trump-just-canceled-the-federal-nevi-ev-charger-program/

EV sales still might grow a little in the US even with all of this, but the growth might be in the single digits it seems like.

Anyway, even though the growth plans of 20-50% a year were unrealistic, it seems unfortunate to just let go the progress that's been made.

But the gritty reality is that now that the first adopters already mostly have EVs, the second wave isn't always willing to pay enough to make these vehicles profitable.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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