we do all of our fitment and testing in south bend Indiana at our home office. If you would let me know what type of car you have i would be happy to find out if they have that car scheduled or if they would like to except your generous offer.
You would have to let me know excatly which wheel you are referring to. There are 89 different alloy wheels listed for this vehicle. without knowing which one you are referring to i wouldn't be able offer any wheel specifications.
My BMW 330i ZHP has Michelin Pilot Sport tires as OEM. Are these scheduled to be discontinued shortly and replaced by the Michelin PS2? Isn't this a step back, to replace the directional design of the Pilot Sport thread with the non-directional thread of the PS2? Do tires have a "stock" life?,i.e.can I get a set and store it indoors to have it ready if needed? If so what is this "tire stock" life?
i would only partially agree with the "Consumer report" article. I will explain by addressing each individual area in your post. The '04 Lexus RX330 will accept either 17 or 18" on the 2 and 4 wheel drive models. specifically there are no restrictions on the AWD models for 17" wheels. The ride difference between a 17" and 18" wheel package would be negligible and you more than likely wouldn't even notice.
As for the comment "performance tires have a harsher ride, wear faster and are more subject to road hazards." This is a very generalized statement that is only slightly true. It is true that a performance tire will tend to wear faster than a touring tire in the exact same size simply due to the fact they have a softer tread compound for higher traction ratings.
Stating that "performance tires" are more susceptible to Road hazards is also not true. It is the size of the tire that is going to determine how easily the tire can be damaged. the shorter the side wall the easier it will be to damage the tires and wheel from road impacts (i.e. potholes, high curbs, railroad tracks). whether it is a performance, touring, or passenger all season tire doesn't make any difference.
One of the best benefit/perks to this job is that we have access to many different types of cars for first hand testing and knowledge of the products. we are also the only retail company in the world that goes to the great length for product testing so that we can relay the information to our customers ensuring they are buying the right products for their needs.
I am looking for tires for a 2001 Rav4 with P235 60R16 originals. When I checked the Michelin website, they do not list the Hydroedge as being available for this car, but Tirerack does. The only difference is the load rating - the original tires have a 100 load rating, while the Hydroedge tires have a 99 load rating. Is it okay to put the Hydroedges on this car? Thanks, and I am looking forward to my first order from Tirerack.
I just ordered my 14th set of tires (these for a coworker friend of my wife's) from the Tire Rack and my 6th set of struts, 3 sets of springs, and 3 sets of high performance brake pads and hot rod rotors.
I've been dealing with them since 1997 and they've never dropped the ball once. In fact, living near Philly as I do, if I order before 2-3 on one day and select FedEx 2-day (about $25-28 on a set of tires), and the tires come out of the Delaware warehouse, I'll have them by noon the next day. You just can't beat that.
I've worked with Connor a couple of times (he sent me Tire Rack decals for one of our autocross cars), but I usually work with Brandon, no real reason, both guys are great.
I just ordered brake rotors through another store, on my son's urging, and not the Tire Rack - this other store had some whiz-bang items that my kid really wanted - whatever. The Tire Rack truly has me spolied. This other store (PLanet Performance), shipped the wrong part number, double and triple charged my Visa debit card (my checking account!) and on an original order of 4177,96, a total of $589.97 was charged and it took five weeks, a gillion phone calls, very few return calls or straight answers, and only today was it finally resolved.
Ironically, in the middle of all this, while we had the car partially disassembled, we ordered a different set of rotors from the Tire Rack, they were here the next day, and the car was on the road - if it was up to the other store, the car would still be on jack stands after a month - and I don't live in a trailer park!!
Again, in nearly 30 orders with the Tire Rack, there's never been a glitch.
Before I repeat anything else, I would like to let you know that I did try to search for an answer here but could not find a discussion regarding my problem. If this is a repeat, please accept my apology.
OK, I have a 2003 Ody which was purchased back in April 2003. Somewhere around September I did get a flat tire stemming from a screw that I forgot to pick up while working on the other car. I had the tire fix, patched up and was good to go. I never drove the car, I took the tire out, and brought it to the shop using our other car.
Now, I see this ring all around the sidewall. I go to the nearest Michelin dealer and what they said was that because I drove the car for a long time with poor inflation thats why the tire deteriorated like it did. I could probably accept that reason except that this car for being one year old only has 7,000 miles on it. We only use it during the weekend outings. The van was never driven because we saw that it was flat when we drove it out of the garage. So now it is my words against theirs.
I have called Michelin and they basically repeated what their location had reported to me.
I don't think this is fair when we never drove the van with poor inflation. I have had flat tires before and never did they show this type of defect.
Do I have an issue here or are these guys correct and that I will have to pull out the wallet and charge $125 for a tire.
I have never had a manufacturer own up to a defect. They always claim that the driver has hit something, drove with the tire under-inflated, etc.. Occasionally, you will have a tire dealer stand up for you, or eat it out of their own pocket, if you are a regular customer, but that is rare.
According to most manufacturers, they have never made a tire with a defect, unless itis proven in court by the evidence of thousands of drivers.. (See: Firestone 500s in the '70s, or more recently Bridgestone/Firestone and the Explorer fiasco).
Since these are OEM tires, and you didn't buy them from a local retailer, you will have no one on your side. My advice is to save a lot of grief and buy another tire.
but that's a textbook, confimed example of what happens when a tire gets driven when low. Did you think about the possibility that you didn't pick up a nail IN your garage?
You had to pick up the nail or screw somewhere else besides in your garage, so the tire was definitely driven on as it was deflating.
Not trying to be smart here, I just know there's little chance that you got a flat in your garage.
It is incidents like these that make you think about the truth about the warranty on anything. I was ready to purchase an extended warranty for the van, for the soul purpose that I think these power sliding doors will give out. While researching it, all these sales people tell me that it is covered. NOW, I am starting to find out that some internal parts aren't covered. Well if there was a way for me to keep those parts in good condition I would do it, but there isn't, so if these doors go, and the warranty won't cover it, then why bother. (sorry just venting some more).
Again thank you, and I will just go ahead and whip out that credit card.
I agree with this also... I wasn't trying to pass judgement on what happened to your tire, just that it really doesn't matter. You won't get any satisfaction from the tire companies.
I know I got the screw from the garage because it was a screw from the car I was working on. (Funny I always end up with one extra screw when I am putting back the car I am working on. )
Anyway, the screw does match the ones on the other car. Now that I think about it, you may be right that it may have punctured the tire the weekend before and I didn't notice it until the folloing weekend.
As Rex said, "Now I have guilt" for thinking these guys were scamming me.
and around racing tires, and I've never seen that "wear ring" develop unless a vehicle was driven with low pressure.
Figure this - if it was only flat in your garage, the wear ring (stress point) would've only been on the flat portion, not the rest of the tire - there would be no stress on the rest of the tire.
The Michelin Pilot Sport tires are not discontinued for your vehicle. The Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 was created as a completely new tire line for Michelin. Many people don't like the directional tread design because they are harder and more expensive to rotate. in response to this Michelin created the PS2 tire which has an asymmetrical tread design. this mean the tire can rotate either direction once it is mounted on the wheel. this tire has a definite inside and a definite outside so it does have to be mounted correctly on the rim. The ability to rotate a tire can increase the life of the tire as well as ensure even tread wear. The PS is an excellent tire and i believe will become the dominant tire with Michelin performance in time.
What is the Sumitomo company like? I thought I read that they did not make passenger tires, but only contracted with other companies to have the tires made. Sears told me they were German made (sirixon 4) someone on the forum said they were Japanese. What who are they? thanks
Sumitomo is a high quality Japanese tire manufacturer that produces tires out of Japan. To my knowledge they are a privately owned company with no other Tire manufacturer affiliates. They have their own processing plants and testing facilities for producing there tires. Sumitomo produces performance oriented tires for cars and trucks and i believe they have a commercial tire line that the tire rack doesn't sell. Their primary focus tends to lean toward High speed rated summer only tires with only a couple "H" rated all season tires. they also produce a performance truck tire with an "H" and "V" rating. Just to summarize, Sumitomo is a high quality tire. the prices tend to be a little lower simply because they are a smaller company with out the huge marketing overhead of the larger tire manufacturers
I would have to agree with driftracer that this is common to a tire that has been run with low air pressure.
Just on a side note, and this isn't directed towards anyone specific or meant to offend anyone. i moderate several forums as well as help a few hundred customers a day, and that doesn't include emails from our website. most manufacturers tend to be leery and defensive when they have a person telling them their product is defective. the reason for this is 99% of the time when people have a problem with a product or it doesn't perform the way "the customer" thinks it should, then they consider it defective. i would say 98.9% of the time the product is not defective. i will give two of my most common situations as an example:
"I have a blister or bubble in my side wall" - these are due to impacts in the road, nothing else. to prove this fact, when your tire is dismounted you will find a rip on the inner Halybutyl rubber liner on the inside of the tires side wall. this is happens when the tire gets pinched between the edge of the rim and the pavement at the point of impact. when the air escapes past the inner lining and broken cords it causes a air to build up at the tires weakest point causing a bulge in the side wall. most people automatically assume the tire was defective.
"i just bought tires from you and they are leaking air" - Every tire produced is air pressure tested at the factory to ensure it holds air. the most common reasons for the tire losing air is because to save a few dollars most people choose not to replace their valve stems. these should be replaced every time you replace your tires. normally when tires are in stalled the valve cores are removed for faster beading of the tire. the older valve stem can have dry rotted seals and/or bodies that can be damaged during installation. taking your tire to garages that use out dated equipment can also be a problem on newer aluminum wheels. I would always recommend using a shop that has touch less mounting equipment. if they don't you can end up with scratches in the mounting bead area of the wheel or possibly a damaged bead on the tire. All of these problems can cause slow leaks in a tire that most people assume are manufacturer defects.
When the manufacturers literally have hundreds of people a day with problems similar to what i listed above calling them saying their tires are defective when there not. the manufacturers have to take a stand at some point and say it's not the product that is the problem. more than likely it is a combination of things on the vehicle.
"99% of the time when people have a problem with a product or it doesn't perform the way "the customer" thinks it should, then they consider it defective. i would say 98.9% of the time the product is not defective"
So, when a customer has a "perceived" problem with your product, 989 times out of 990, you get to tell them they are wrong. I sure hope your main focus is in sales, and not customer service. If we did that in my business, we'd be out of business.
are very difficult to get when rolling slowly. You have to be very unlucky, as the nail/screw has to be sitting on the head pointing up! On the road the front wheels bump the nail/screw off the road and sometimes it lands on the head just in time for the rear wheel to pick it up. Or it can be tumbling from the car in front of you and get a front wheel.
In my many years of working on cars I've also noticed punctures of any kind are rare in dry conditions. Most "sharp objects" require lubrication to penetrate a tire - usually rain (water). I have watched drivers drive over beer and soda-pop bottles without problems in the dry. I've only seen two drive over them in the wet, and both resulted in punctures.
it's not "their" product, it's the manufacturer's product. They go to the manufacturer for warranty claims, just like most other tire dealers.
Having spent many years in the tire and service business, plus racing autocross where tires are your main competitive edge and their importance is on the priceless level, I must say that after viewing thousands and thousands of tires, I've only seen a couple of "defects".
Most perceived "defects" are caused by damage that the owner is either unaware of or won't admit to.
I won't say that I've NEVER seen a tire defect, but unlike the old bias-ply days, it just doesn't happen much. Like one in a million - literally.
i'm not sure why Michelin woudn't list this size Hydroedge on their website. It is made in the 235/60/16 and is completely suitable for your Toyota. i currently have them listed at 121.00 each plus shipping. just let me know if you would like to order them i will help you get your account set up.
as the nail/screw has to be sitting on the head pointing up!"
Not to argue with your hypothesis, but having repaired many flat tires, and replaced many, many more, I've seen a lot of strange things puncture tires - most were not screws or nails mounted in some kind of "launcher", held at that perfect 45 degree angle for proper attack. In fact, the front tire tread can pick up a nail or screw, hold it a while, then project it just right to kill the rear tire.
Personally, I've had tires fail because one picked up a 6mm allen wrench (?), a pair of pliers, rocks, glass, etc.
I find it funny when poeple feel they need to analyze WHY their tire went flat, as if they plan to take it as a personal affront against the violating foreign object.
You got a flat. Could it have been prevented? Perhaps, perhaps not. Live with it, get it fixed, or get the tire replaced. There are things that are much more important where we can utilize or analyzation skills to better good -
I can see I have opened a can of worms here. I can understand both sides of the token here. I think the problem may be in trying to explain to the customer that yes the tire treads are still in good condition, but the defect (ring,bubble, etc) is something that is caused by a cause that the manufacturer has no control of. In my situation, I think it would have been best served if they came out and said "SOMETIME" between getting the flat and noticing it, I may have driven it while under inflated. Part of the problem is that, not all of us are tire experts, and unfortunately, there are a small amount of mechanics that give the good mechanics a bad rap. Same thing as Car salesman.
Anyway, I think the best way to end this is, as someone said, "the best customer is an educated customer".
Now I at least know some possible "defects" to the tires that may be my fault.
Every manufacturer at some point will have something go out that may be defective. my point was that what most people percieve as defective is not a defect. about the only form of defect a consumer will ever really see is if a tire "delaminates". this is when the adhesive between the tires tread plys have not bonded correctly and they literally come apart leaving the tire in pieces.
But, as you can see.. my original statement is pretty much correct. If anything goes wrong with your tire, just get out your wallet. It doesn't really matter why or what the situation is. That is really my only point.
I am glad we have someone from tirerack here to answer questions. Welcome to Edmunds (seriously!!)
and to expect at least 989 of 1000 tires to be defect free is not expecting too much I don't think. I would truthfully expect the number to be more like 998-999 of 1000 to be defect free. To me that says only 1 or maybe 2 out of 1000 would truly have a defect to be dealt with, the rest being use/misuse and/or owner perception problems.
The whole Firestone/Explorer thing was based on an incredibly low percentage of tires that may have had a problem. I believe it was something like 4xx out of hundreds of thousands of tires. Our wonderful litigious, over lawyered society did as they usually do and looked for deep pockets. If you want to see defective product in extremely high percentages look at what the law schools turn out. That's got to be the highest percentage of defects of anything produced on the planet.
Go back and read his original post.. He didn't say anything about percentage of defects in tires.. It was regarding the number of actual defects per complaint.. Out of the 99% of people that complained, 98.9% had no actual defect... ergo, 989 out of 990. 11 out of 1000 for a failure rate would be abysmal for tires.. Considering you usually buy four at a time, that would give you approx. a 1 in 25 chance of having a bad tire everytime you bought a set.
regards, kyfdx (all math is approximate, but decimals are in the right place)
actually all that statement said was that customer may misunderstand what an actuall defect is. it never stated how the customer is taken care of. At the Tire Rack you will normally find that if the customer experiences problems with a tire in the first 30 days we will do everything we can to help them out. after that it is on a case by case basis depending on what the problem is, the specific product, and the manufacturer's warranty coverage. You will also find that in many cases we cover tires even when they are not covered by a manufacturer warranty simply as a customer courtesy.
The information that i posted was simply in trying to educate rather than just direct. If i tell a person what they need all they got out if it was a piece of merchandise. If i can educate them on why i recommend a certain product as well as why one product may perform better than another, then the customer also got a better understanding of the products he is interested in. this is why the Tire Rack moderates websites such as this one. It is to help the general public have a better understanding of the characteristics of the tires, wheels, suspension, and brake components they are interested in.
words, I've never seen a tire delaminate - not a radial, passenger car or light truck tire, anyway. Old bias-ply tires and retreads, that's a different story.
Anyone still putting retreads on their passenger car because they're too ignorant to do some quick internet tire shopping...I'll just have to hold my tongue.
And yes, you can buy retread passenger car tires - even performance tires - but why?
to remember Firestone 500s.. They were radials, and had large problems with delamination. But, I agree, that is mostly in the past.
You guys keep making my point for me.. According to the salesmen and manufacturers, they have never made a defective tire until they lose the case in court. It doesn't mean a tire dealer won't step up and make it right, it just means it is a long tough slog for the customer, and I recommend they suck it up and buy a new tire.
Firestone 500s. You were a real winner if you were driving one of the exploding Pintos that had these tires as standard. I remember Johnny Carson calling folks the "ultimate loser" if they were drivig this combination.
"According to the salesmen and manufacturers, they have never made a defective tire until they lose the case in court"
I may have been a salesman at one time, and a retail regional manager, but I stil attest that since 1983, I haven't seen a real tire defect in a passenger car or light truck radial tire. I've seen lots of damaged tires that the owner swore was a defect, though.
A couple of summers ago, the wife and I went to a cavalacade of homes (new home models) show in a new development with many homes under construction. The next day, a tire (Michelin) on the vehicle we used had lost most of its air. I check tires for air periodically and none of them ever lost any air. The vehicle was 2 years old and had good quality factory alloys. Upon inspection, a small nail was found in the tread. Perhaps we picked it up at the construction site.
Took the tire in to NTB and had it repaired with a plug and patch. After 2 weeks, noticed that the tire was low 7 pounds. Looked it over again and could find no other nails or holes. Put it in a tub of water and found no air leaks at the plug nor the valve. Took it back to NTB and they put it in tub of water and could not find any leaks. They concluded that rim was dirty where tire bead bonds to it and they cleaned it and rebalanced it at no charge. But, guess what--- it still leaked about 1/2 pound per day.
Went back to NTB again and they examined patch, gave new valve, cleaned bead again and rebalanced. But, again, it still lost 1/2 pound per day.
Knowing that water tub did not show leaks I tried ordinary liquid dishwashing soap but could not find bubbles. Then, I bought a large bottle of blowing bubble soap that kids play with. Using the soap, I found a tiny-tiny cut in the groove, barely discernable, that bubbled up slightly. I marked the spot with chalk and took the tire and bubble soap back to NTB. They did the bubble soap test, saw the bubbles and then patched, plugged and rebalanced the tire. This solved the problem - no more lost air.
The almost invisible cut was in the vicinity of the nail hole. My theory is that the nail first did the little puncture cut and then bounced and imbedded itself in another spot on the tire. Or alternatively, there were two nails involved. One of them imbedded itself while the other just made the tiny puncture and then fell away. What say the tire experts on these theories?
and bubble soap, or just plain dish soap, especially when sprayed from a bottle, is the best "cause of the flat" finder there is.
You could have also gotten a puncture and had the culprit fly away due to rotation.
I'm an investigator - that's my job - I may just have to look into licensing myself and advertising as a "what caused your flat tire" investigator.
I KNOW for a fact there are people who would pay me to find out - for what reason, I don't know, nor do I know what they'd do with the information, but I've witnessed the strong determination in their eyes to establish the exact color and size of the nail or screw that violated their tire!
The last flat I got was due to a roofing nail. I recognized it immediately. It came from my roof and I narrowed the section of roof it came from down to the roofing square :-)
I get about one flat a year, while most folks seem to go years without getting one.
Why is that, Conner?
Never mind, my real question is about those plugs and patches. I had one tire fixed with a plug and patch but suffered "tread separation" a few thousand miles later. After a while you could easily see where the tire had been patched. I didn't drive that tire very long.
Is a patched tire safe to ride on and is there a limit on how many patches you can get on one tire?
My son is about to buy his Grandma's 1992 Mercury Sable with only 24K miles on it, in mint condition and still with the original tires. The car obviously was driven little and garaged a lot in an upper midwest unheated garage.
Just due to age, we are thinking of replacing the OEM tires, though they do not show any cracking.
In your opinion, should they be replaced, and if so, can you recommend a decent but inexpensive replacement, size P205-65-15? He is a college junior on a limited budget, and will use these year round, no snow tire change in winter.
because they hurt the radial cords and can cause separation. A patch is better.
Here in PA, at the dealership I worked at, our technicians decided that plugged tires would not pass PA inspection (pretty stringent), because that area is up to the technician. Patched tires were OK.
Inspector Driftracer, here's one for you. I once had a tire go flat suddenly on the freeway. I pulled over, and my left rear tire had a quarter-sized hole in the sidewall. This was one of the early Bridgestone Turanzas, S-rated, when there was only 1 "Turanza," before they started adding things like "EL42" or "LS-V" to the name. The hole seemed to be smoking, too.
I bought a set of name brand (I will call Y) summer performance tires (15 inch 65 aspect) for my new Accord in early 98 from a local independent tire dealer. Within a few miles of the dealer I noticed a pull of the car to the left. Went back to dealer and he ordered a replacement for the offending tire. After he installed it a few days later, the car drove straight and I then enjoyed using the car and tires for about 2 years until I traded it in on another vehicle. I liked the tires. They were a noticeable improvement from the Turanzas that came with the new car. So, when it was time to replace tires on my Maxima in 2002, I decided to try the same brand and model again. BIG mistake.
The Maxima needed 16 inch 55 aspect. I’ve read before, perhaps Road and Track a long time ago, that a given brand and model tire can have different attributes from one size and aspect to another size and aspect. OK, but this should not mean severe pulling to one side.
I went to another independent tire dealer and bought the same brand and model tires for the Max that I had on the Accord. I noticed a pull to the left immediately. I told this to the tire dealer, but we agreed that I would check out my wheel alignment and brakes first. I then got a four-wheel alignment checkup and setup to spec at the Nissan dealer. I also verified that my brake calipers were functioning well and that the pistons were releasing and not locking the pads on the rotors.
Over the next couple of months I was back at the tire dealer many times, initially moving tires around to find the defective tire. Most of the pulling to one side or another was not minor but was very noticeable. The dealer thought he identified one tire as the defective, and then ordered and installed a new tire. This did not completely solve it and he did more moving tires around. We thought another defective tire was identified, so he ordered and installed another new replacement tire. This did not solve it. The dealer contacted the tire manufacture rep who agreed to take back the tires and give me a total refund. The dealer recommended another brand performance tire which I bought and he installed. With these tires, the Max tracks perfectly to this day.
The brand Y tires that I bought from dealers in 98 and 2002 were listed for sale by Tire Rack at those times. I notice in May 2004 issue of R & T that these brand Y tires are still listed, but only have a small amount of sizes available. I guess that the Y company has discontinued the model that I had bought.
Over the years, I have bought and was very well satisfied with summer, all-season and winter tires from company Y on a variety of vehicles. I use brand Y winter tires on the Max and am well satisfied.
I wonder why the model of brand Y tires that I bought for the Max were so defective. Were these defects in the manufacturing processes or in the design of the 16 inch 55 aspect?
ryoken - I do not wish to become a tire flat cause inspector - I was joking - I have enough investigatory and forensic work to keep me employed for a long time. I read and write on Edmunds to relax.
The hole in your sidewall was probably caused by a meteor rock that had been trapped inside your tire/wheel assembly at the time of mounting. Once it hit the magic centrifugal mass of rotating 1,834 times at exactly 58 mph, it escaped from the inner tire atmosphere.
Actually, probably a stress area caused by a curb or rock hit - it finally failed after it was used for a while and got really warm.
Any reason i gave without seeing the tire would be strictly speculative. another common cause of small puncture as you have described is brushing up against curbs. the tire gets pinched between the curb and wheel and causes the small hole. another common cause are the metal plates that are placed on the pavement in construction zones to cover open holes. people drive over the corners and edges of the steel plate and they find the small cuts later as the tire slowley loses pressure.
In 1999 I had just purchased a brand new Chevy Silverado which came with the General Ameri 660 A/S size 255/70R16. After driving approximately 300 miles I noticed the development of a vibration. Didn't think much about it. At 500 miles, the vibration increased to become noticeable at 45-60. I inspected the front tires and noticed rubber chunks about the size of 1/8 x 1/8 were missing out of the tire. I contacted General Tire who had advised me to contact the Chevy dealership. After the dealer had inspected the tires, General sent a replacement set (5) of tires and had them installed by the Chevy dealership. I thought what a great company sending 5 tires instead of 2.
Long story short, this new set and a third set also proved to be defective as the rubber chunks would fall off the tire leaving small holes. So the dealer has a fourth set set to arrive in a week. I said to myself with this track record forget it. I offered to pay the difference between the Generals and a set of Michelin LTX M/S as I thought I had wasted enough time dealing with the Generals. What a surprise when told of the price difference I would have to pay. Apparently, the General tire was worth $25 wholesale new compared to $90 for the Michelin making the difference of $260 for a set of 4. I would've objected but has shopped a similar General tire on tirerack and found that they sold it for $35 retail.
It gets even better. The dealer orders the Michelins and they send it out to a Goodyear store to have it mounted and balanced. When I picked up the truck, I drove directly to the freeway to test for a vibration and sure enough, the truck shook worse than with the Generals. Confused, I called the dealer who told me to take it directly to the installing Goodyear store. The manager was quite confused as he stated defects in Michelins are unheard of. So he removes the tire and test balances it.
The result was a 2 oz weight left in the tire by the installer. Manager was apologized, shook his head, and said good help is hard to find. All the while I'm thinking how many other cars out there that may have a similar problem....
6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!
kirstie_h Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Comments
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
As for the comment "performance tires have a harsher ride, wear faster and are more subject to road hazards." This is a very generalized statement that is only slightly true. It is true that a performance tire will tend to wear faster than a touring tire in the exact same size simply due to the fact they have a softer tread compound for higher traction ratings.
Stating that "performance tires" are more susceptible to Road hazards is also not true. It is the size of the tire that is going to determine how easily the tire can be damaged. the shorter the side wall the easier it will be to damage the tires and wheel from road impacts (i.e. potholes, high curbs, railroad tracks). whether it is a performance, touring, or passenger all season tire doesn't make any difference.
One of the best benefit/perks to this job is that we have access to many different types of cars for first hand testing and knowledge of the products. we are also the only retail company in the world that goes to the great length for product testing so that we can relay the information to our customers ensuring they are buying the right products for their needs.
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
It appears that I will have to keep up with progress if I want to take delivery of a RX330 and the performance tires that are a part of it.
I've been dealing with them since 1997 and they've never dropped the ball once. In fact, living near Philly as I do, if I order before 2-3 on one day and select FedEx 2-day (about $25-28 on a set of tires), and the tires come out of the Delaware warehouse, I'll have them by noon the next day. You just can't beat that.
I've worked with Connor a couple of times (he sent me Tire Rack decals for one of our autocross cars), but I usually work with Brandon, no real reason, both guys are great.
I just ordered brake rotors through another store, on my son's urging, and not the Tire Rack - this other store had some whiz-bang items that my kid really wanted - whatever. The Tire Rack truly has me spolied. This other store (PLanet Performance), shipped the wrong part number, double and triple charged my Visa debit card (my checking account!) and on an original order of 4177,96, a total of $589.97 was charged and it took five weeks, a gillion phone calls, very few return calls or straight answers, and only today was it finally resolved.
Ironically, in the middle of all this, while we had the car partially disassembled, we ordered a different set of rotors from the Tire Rack, they were here the next day, and the car was on the road - if it was up to the other store, the car would still be on jack stands after a month - and I don't live in a trailer park!!
Again, in nearly 30 orders with the Tire Rack, there's never been a glitch.
Jim Lewis
OK, I have a 2003 Ody which was purchased back in April 2003. Somewhere around September I did get a flat tire stemming from a screw that I forgot to pick up while working on the other car. I had the tire fix, patched up and was good to go. I never drove the car, I took the tire out, and brought it to the shop using our other car.
Now, I see this ring all around the sidewall. I go to the nearest Michelin dealer and what they said was that because I drove the car for a long time with poor inflation thats why the tire deteriorated like it did. I could probably accept that reason except that this car for being one year old only has 7,000 miles on it. We only use it during the weekend outings. The van was never driven because we saw that it was flat when we drove it out of the garage. So now it is my words against theirs.
I have called Michelin and they basically repeated what their location had reported to me.
I don't think this is fair when we never drove the van with poor inflation. I have had flat tires before and never did they show this type of defect.
Do I have an issue here or are these guys correct and that I will have to pull out the wallet and charge $125 for a tire.
PLEASE let me know what you think.
Thanks,
According to most manufacturers, they have never made a tire with a defect, unless itis proven in court by the evidence of thousands of drivers.. (See: Firestone 500s in the '70s, or more recently Bridgestone/Firestone and the Explorer fiasco).
Since these are OEM tires, and you didn't buy them from a local retailer, you will have no one on your side. My advice is to save a lot of grief and buy another tire.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
You had to pick up the nail or screw somewhere else besides in your garage, so the tire was definitely driven on as it was deflating.
Not trying to be smart here, I just know there's little chance that you got a flat in your garage.
It is incidents like these that make you think about the truth about the warranty on anything. I was ready to purchase an extended warranty for the van, for the soul purpose that I think these power sliding doors will give out. While researching it, all these sales people tell me that it is covered. NOW, I am starting to find out that some internal parts aren't covered. Well if there was a way for me to keep those parts in good condition I would do it, but there isn't, so if these doors go, and the warranty won't cover it, then why bother. (sorry just venting some more).
Again thank you, and I will just go ahead and whip out that credit card.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I know I got the screw from the garage because it was a screw from the car I was working on. (Funny I always end up with one extra screw when I am putting back the car I am working on.
Anyway, the screw does match the ones on the other car. Now that I think about it, you may be right that it may have punctured the tire the weekend before and I didn't notice it until the folloing weekend.
As Rex said, "Now I have guilt" for thinking these guys were scamming me.
Thanks again.
Figure this - if it was only flat in your garage, the wear ring (stress point) would've only been on the flat portion, not the rest of the tire - there would be no stress on the rest of the tire.
But relax, it was only flat on one side!!
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
I thought I read that they did not make passenger tires, but only contracted with other companies to have the tires made.
Sears told me they were German made (sirixon 4) someone on the forum said they were Japanese.
What who are they?
thanks
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
Just on a side note, and this isn't directed towards anyone specific or meant to offend anyone. i moderate several forums as well as help a few hundred customers a day, and that doesn't include emails from our website. most manufacturers tend to be leery and defensive when they have a person telling them their product is defective. the reason for this is 99% of the time when people have a problem with a product or it doesn't perform the way "the customer" thinks it should, then they consider it defective. i would say 98.9% of the time the product is not defective. i will give two of my most common situations as an example:
"I have a blister or bubble in my side wall" - these are due to impacts in the road, nothing else. to prove this fact, when your tire is dismounted you will find a rip on the inner Halybutyl rubber liner on the inside of the tires side wall. this is happens when the tire gets pinched between the edge of the rim and the pavement at the point of impact. when the air escapes past the inner lining and broken cords it causes a air to build up at the tires weakest point causing a bulge in the side wall. most people automatically assume the tire was defective.
"i just bought tires from you and they are leaking air" - Every tire produced is air pressure tested at the factory to ensure it holds air. the most common reasons for the tire losing air is because to save a few dollars most people choose not to replace their valve stems. these should be replaced every time you replace your tires. normally when tires are in stalled the valve cores are removed for faster beading of the tire. the older valve stem can have dry rotted seals and/or bodies that can be damaged during installation. taking your tire to garages that use out dated equipment can also be a problem on newer aluminum wheels. I would always recommend using a shop that has touch less mounting equipment. if they don't you can end up with scratches in the mounting bead area of the wheel or possibly a damaged bead on the tire. All of these problems can cause slow leaks in a tire that most people assume are manufacturer defects.
When the manufacturers literally have hundreds of people a day with problems similar to what i listed above calling them saying their tires are defective when there not. the manufacturers have to take a stand at some point and say it's not the product that is the problem. more than likely it is a combination of things on the vehicle.
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
I think you just made my point from above.. no offense intended.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
So, when a customer has a "perceived" problem with your product, 989 times out of 990, you get to tell them they are wrong. I sure hope your main focus is in sales, and not customer service. If we did that in my business, we'd be out of business.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
In my many years of working on cars I've also noticed punctures of any kind are rare in dry conditions. Most "sharp objects" require lubrication to penetrate a tire - usually rain (water). I have watched drivers drive over beer and soda-pop bottles without problems in the dry. I've only seen two drive over them in the wet, and both resulted in punctures.
Having spent many years in the tire and service business, plus racing autocross where tires are your main competitive edge and their importance is on the priceless level, I must say that after viewing thousands and thousands of tires, I've only seen a couple of "defects".
Most perceived "defects" are caused by damage that the owner is either unaware of or won't admit to.
I won't say that I've NEVER seen a tire defect, but unlike the old bias-ply days, it just doesn't happen much. Like one in a million - literally.
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
Not to argue with your hypothesis, but having repaired many flat tires, and replaced many, many more, I've seen a lot of strange things puncture tires - most were not screws or nails mounted in some kind of "launcher", held at that perfect 45 degree angle for proper attack. In fact, the front tire tread can pick up a nail or screw, hold it a while, then project it just right to kill the rear tire.
Personally, I've had tires fail because one picked up a 6mm allen wrench (?), a pair of pliers, rocks, glass, etc.
I find it funny when poeple feel they need to analyze WHY their tire went flat, as if they plan to take it as a personal affront against the violating foreign object.
You got a flat. Could it have been prevented? Perhaps, perhaps not. Live with it, get it fixed, or get the tire replaced. There are things that are much more important where we can utilize or analyzation skills to better good -
Anyway, I think the best way to end this is, as someone said, "the best customer is an educated customer".
Now I at least know some possible "defects" to the tires that may be my fault.
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
I am glad we have someone from tirerack here to answer questions. Welcome to Edmunds (seriously!!)
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
The whole Firestone/Explorer thing was based on an incredibly low percentage of tires that may have had a problem. I believe it was something like 4xx out of hundreds of thousands of tires. Our wonderful litigious, over lawyered society did as they usually do and looked for deep pockets. If you want to see defective product in extremely high percentages look at what the law schools turn out. That's got to be the highest percentage of defects of anything produced on the planet.
regards,
kyfdx
(all math is approximate, but decimals are in the right place)
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
The information that i posted was simply in trying to educate rather than just direct. If i tell a person what they need all they got out if it was a piece of merchandise. If i can educate them on why i recommend a certain product as well as why one product may perform better than another, then the customer also got a better understanding of the products he is interested in. this is why the Tire Rack moderates websites such as this one. It is to help the general public have a better understanding of the characteristics of the tires, wheels, suspension, and brake components they are interested in.
connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269
Anyone still putting retreads on their passenger car because they're too ignorant to do some quick internet tire shopping...I'll just have to hold my tongue.
And yes, you can buy retread passenger car tires - even performance tires - but why?
You guys keep making my point for me.. According to the salesmen and manufacturers, they have never made a defective tire until they lose the case in court. It doesn't mean a tire dealer won't step up and make it right, it just means it is a long tough slog for the customer, and I recommend they suck it up and buy a new tire.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
This is the American way, innocent till proven guilty!
"According to the salesmen and manufacturers, they have never made a defective tire until they lose the case in court"
I may have been a salesman at one time, and a retail regional manager, but I stil attest that since 1983, I haven't seen a real tire defect in a passenger car or light truck radial tire. I've seen lots of damaged tires that the owner swore was a defect, though.
Took the tire in to NTB and had it repaired with a plug and patch. After 2 weeks, noticed that the tire was low 7 pounds. Looked it over again and could find no other nails or holes. Put it in a tub of water and found no air leaks at the plug nor the valve. Took it back to NTB and they put it in tub of water and could not find any leaks. They concluded that rim was dirty where tire bead bonds to it and they cleaned it and rebalanced it at no charge. But, guess what--- it still leaked about 1/2 pound per day.
Went back to NTB again and they examined patch, gave new valve, cleaned bead again and rebalanced. But, again, it still lost 1/2 pound per day.
Knowing that water tub did not show leaks I tried ordinary liquid dishwashing soap but could not find bubbles. Then, I bought a large bottle of blowing bubble soap that kids play with. Using the soap, I found a tiny-tiny cut in the groove, barely discernable, that bubbled up slightly. I marked the spot with chalk and took the tire and bubble soap back to NTB. They did the bubble soap test, saw the bubbles and then patched, plugged and rebalanced the tire. This solved the problem - no more lost air.
The almost invisible cut was in the vicinity of the nail hole. My theory is that the nail first did the little puncture cut and then bounced and imbedded itself in another spot on the tire. Or alternatively, there were two nails involved. One of them imbedded itself while the other just made the tiny puncture and then fell away. What say the tire experts on these theories?
You could have also gotten a puncture and had the culprit fly away due to rotation.
I'm an investigator - that's my job - I may just have to look into licensing myself and advertising as a "what caused your flat tire" investigator.
I KNOW for a fact there are people who would pay me to find out - for what reason, I don't know, nor do I know what they'd do with the information, but I've witnessed the strong determination in their eyes to establish the exact color and size of the nail or screw that violated their tire!
I get about one flat a year, while most folks seem to go years without getting one.
Why is that, Conner?
Never mind, my real question is about those plugs and patches. I had one tire fixed with a plug and patch but suffered "tread separation" a few thousand miles later. After a while you could easily see where the tire had been patched. I didn't drive that tire very long.
Is a patched tire safe to ride on and is there a limit on how many patches you can get on one tire?
Steve, Host
Just due to age, we are thinking of replacing the OEM tires, though they do not show any cracking.
In your opinion, should they be replaced, and if so, can you recommend a decent but inexpensive replacement, size P205-65-15? He is a college junior on a limited budget, and will use these year round, no snow tire change in winter.
Here in PA, at the dealership I worked at, our technicians decided that plugged tires would not pass PA inspection (pretty stringent), because that area is up to the technician. Patched tires were OK.
Steve, Host
The Maxima needed 16 inch 55 aspect. I’ve read before, perhaps Road and Track a long time ago, that a given brand and model tire can have different attributes from one size and aspect to another size and aspect. OK, but this should not mean severe pulling to one side.
I went to another independent tire dealer and bought the same brand and model tires for the Max that I had on the Accord. I noticed a pull to the left immediately. I told this to the tire dealer, but we agreed that I would check out my wheel alignment and brakes first. I then got a four-wheel alignment checkup and setup to spec at the Nissan dealer. I also verified that my brake calipers were functioning well and that the pistons were releasing and not locking the pads on the rotors.
Over the next couple of months I was back at the tire dealer many times, initially moving tires around to find the defective tire. Most of the pulling to one side or another was not minor but was very noticeable. The dealer thought he identified one tire as the defective, and then ordered and installed a new tire. This did not completely solve it and he did more moving tires around. We thought another defective tire was identified, so he ordered and installed another new replacement tire. This did not solve it. The dealer contacted the tire manufacture rep who agreed to take back the tires and give me a total refund. The dealer recommended another brand performance tire which I bought and he installed. With these tires, the Max tracks perfectly to this day.
The brand Y tires that I bought from dealers in 98 and 2002 were listed for sale by Tire Rack at those times. I notice in May 2004 issue of R & T that these brand Y tires are still listed, but only have a small amount of sizes available. I guess that the Y company has discontinued the model that I had bought.
Over the years, I have bought and was very well satisfied with summer, all-season and winter tires from company Y on a variety of vehicles. I use brand Y winter tires on the Max and am well satisfied.
I wonder why the model of brand Y tires that I bought for the Max were so defective. Were these defects in the manufacturing processes or in the design of the 16 inch 55 aspect?
The hole in your sidewall was probably caused by a meteor rock that had been trapped inside your tire/wheel assembly at the time of mounting. Once it hit the magic centrifugal mass of rotating 1,834 times at exactly 58 mph, it escaped from the inner tire atmosphere.
Actually, probably a stress area caused by a curb or rock hit - it finally failed after it was used for a while and got really warm.
Long story short, this new set and a third set also proved to be defective as the rubber chunks would fall off the tire leaving small holes. So the dealer has a fourth set set to arrive in a week. I said to myself with this track record forget it. I offered to pay the difference between the Generals and a set of Michelin LTX M/S as I thought I had wasted enough time dealing with the Generals. What a surprise when told of the price difference I would have to pay. Apparently, the General tire was worth $25 wholesale new compared to $90 for the Michelin making the difference of $260 for a set of 4. I would've objected but has shopped a similar General tire on tirerack and found that they sold it for $35 retail.
It gets even better. The dealer orders the Michelins and they send it out to a Goodyear store to have it mounted and balanced. When I picked up the truck, I drove directly to the freeway to test for a vibration and sure enough, the truck shook worse than with the Generals. Confused, I called the dealer who told me to take it directly to the installing Goodyear store. The manager was quite confused as he stated defects in Michelins are unheard of. So he removes the tire and test balances it.
The result was a 2 oz weight left in the tire by the installer. Manager was apologized, shook his head, and said good help is hard to find. All the while I'm thinking how many other cars out there that may have a similar problem....
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html
6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Is there a test wheel supplied by the manufacturer?