The Stock Market and Investing

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  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited January 2013
    I'm not into real estate but for those of you who are here's a story from todays NY Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/business/housing-markets-future-still-has-many- - -clouds.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They just want it even though a stock split of 5 to 10:1 would bring in so many other buyers.

    I would buy some AAPL if the price was down under $100. I just cannot bring myself to pay $400 or more for one share of stock. We bought MCD when it was $14 and sold at $90+. I would not buy it back at that high of a price. I know it does not make a lot of sense. I don't think I would not buy GOOG even if they split 10 for 1. In my mind it is vaporware. Here today gone tomorrow. Though they are getting more diversified.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I wouldn't call GOOG vaporware but I know what you mean. It can so easily be threatened and renderred as useless. That's why they give away Android as they just want to make sure no one ever threatens them.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree with the article. It is buyer beware. This last place I squeezed the bank hard. They held hard at our final agreed price. Would not come down another $500. And they have sat on the place almost a year. I read something where the banks get reimbursed by the Feds for the difference between selling price and the loan they have out. Around here the banks are tough to negotiate with because they own so many foreclosed properties. You need a real good income and down to get into a home they do not own. I hope they have learned their lesson about lending to poor risk buyers.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    A very rational and well thought out article that makes a lot of sense. Reminds me of all those other things that work just fine in practice, but in theory will never work ! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was remembering all the good search engines that are laying beside the Internet trail. I loved Dogpile, but never use it anymore. It is still there but a shadow of its once dominant position.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Microsft and Apple should get together on BING, mapping & social networking. That would scare the life out of GOOG.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    It is indeed a crying shame that Apple's management will not listen to this sound advice. I would love to see a stock split. However, I have heard some analysts say that a split would not make a bit of difference. I think they are dead wrong.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    On Apple Management

    I think Jobbs missed the boat on the new iPhone buy not having two versions narrow and wider.....I personally rarely use the internet part as it it is just too small other than to glance at it, and the phone part is fine other than Verizon sometimes doesn`t have a very clear signal...

    In the old times, management would split the stock , sometimes twenty percent sometime two for one....What that meant was to take some off the table....Not sell the whole amount but just the split part.....Pay the lower taxes, and re-invest the rest......Also management would pay a decent dividend that would represent a good amount of the earnings, leaving management more than enough money to make future plans.....They would also pay out five percent stock dividends like two or three percent twice a year..... I am surprised many companied don`t follow that practice today....It would fit in perfectly with a smaller cash payout, and the companies buying back stock only to pay it out is small dribs and drabs makes for good long term income that is taxed lower......Of course that is what they are doing for themselves.....

    Jobs, rightly so imo, was abused by Wall Street and from his perch on the West Coast ran the company to his liking....He did a fine job, and we do not know how he would have changed had he lived......The new management and board of directors better listen to the pain they have inflicted by not doing and acting `smart`, or the company will loose it`s momentum ---which will really hurt---

    It is possible that `they` are going to try and keep almost all the funds that have piled up, only to invest the funds themselves , to assure management a long term job...With the funds, and just replacement phones and computers they will do well for themselves, just as IBM has done over the last twenty years....Buying back stock thereby increasing earnings......This needs to change Tony
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...they could do a reverse split and price it so high that only institutional investors would be able to afford it.

    Nobody shorts BRK-A.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I wonder if the iPhone will finally jump on the expanding screen size bandwagon created by Samsung. I am using a Galaxy Note II now, and it makes an iPhone seem like a child's toy - it's a beast.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do you like the Note II? I was about to get one when I read they are going to unveil the Note 8.0 at the Mobile show in February. That is about the size I want. I played with the Note 10.1 and it is too big. They will not sell the Note 2 with month to month data only service on Verizon. I don't really want it to talk on, just for Internet and Google maps traveling. Plus email and blogging on the road.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    It's fantastic. I use it as a phone too - I have a big head/hands etc, so it works for me, but might be cumbersome for smaller people. I don't own an actual tablet - this is kind of a cross between that and a phone ("phablet"). Easy to use maps/play games/watch movies. If I wanted a tablet, I would get something larger like you mention. But as a big phone, it is excellent - enough processing power to be smooth with no lag, excellent keyboard, no issues. Only complaint I have heard is that the glass, due to size, lacks rigidity, and scratches easier than a smaller phone.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The only problem I have is justifying the $90 per month for service I will not use except traveling. Most of the tablets can be bought outright and get month to month data service for about $40. I like the Apple Mini, if it had VZ Navigator and SD card slot, I would consider it. Have to keep looking. The Note 2 is the best thing on the market right now. I see lots of people with them. Closest thing to having your office computer with you.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Yeah, the mobile providers are getting into a bit of a data gouging game - likely to make up for downward pricing trends in voice and text. If not on a family style plan, often prepaid can come out ahead.

    I've resisted tablet temptation so far - about 4 years ago, I bought a netbook for travel use, and it still works - I usually don't ditch electronics until they break (I get phones subsidized by my employer). The netbook, still running XP, works fine, even after being dropped last year, which broke a hinge - but the old thing is still perfectly useful.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Was just talking about you on Facebook, lol and borrowed your serf n' elite society quote to describe the current economic system of today. Thought I'd drop in and say hello! :)

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    When will the NYSE move to Florida???

    The city’s hedge-fund executives are flying south — and it’s not for vacation.

    An increasing number of financial firms, especially private equity and hedge funds, are fed up with New York’s sky-high city and state tax rates and are relocating to the business-friendly climate in Florida’s Palm Beach County.

    And they’re being welcomed with open arms — officials in Palm Beach recently opened an entire office dedicated to luring finance hot shots down south.

    “Florida is a state of choice,” said Thalius Hecksher, global development chief for Apex Fund Services, who moved many of his operations to Palm Beach. “It’s organically grown. There’s no need to drag people down here. It’s a zero-income-tax jurisdiction.”

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/wall_st_flees_ny_for_tax_free_fla_Q6e4qSDMUet- hpylfznC4tO
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited January 2013
    I am surprised there hasn't been a real flight out of the NYC area already. The high expense public sector bureaucracy there has to be stupefying, cost of living insane, population density steep, weather often harsh, etc. Fun to visit, don't know if I would want to live there.

    Of course, much of Florida is second world, to put it nicely, but if you choose the right area, or live behind gates...the latter of which FIRE industry types probably should do.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I don't think that the financial sector will abandon New York anytime soon. Palm Beach County may have attracted a couple of small hedge fund managers but that doesn't mean the 10K+ employee firms will move there.

    The high cost of living is outweighed by the fact that New York is the financial capital of the world and the nfrastructure and talent to support that can't just up and move. It would take at least a decade to move that anywhere. Further New York has much more to offer (culture, dining, transportation) that Palm Beach County can only dream of.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Good points. And when these guys are siphoning off 8+ figure salaries, I guess the expenses become moot.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Don't forget that all those high paying jobs in New York would also become mediocre paying jobs in Florida. No administrative assistants earning $80K a year in Florida - maybe $40K.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited January 2013
    80K? A top notch admin asst for a key exec in NYC makes well over $100K and is almost rich by Obama's standards. I paid my secretary $65K and that was 12 years ago when she was in her early 30's. Today she makes $135K + bonus.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    I am using a Galaxy Note II now, and it makes an iPhone seem like a child's toy - it's a beast.

    The Galaxy Note II is a nice phone. I use a Galaxy SIII. Perfect size for me. I generally keep my phone in my front pants pocket and the Note just seemed to big for my tastes. But I certainly see why some would like it.

    Even my SIII makes the display of the Iphone seem small. What I really like about the android phones is the ability to share usb/power cables with other devices and being able to add memory. I added a 32gb micro-sd card to my SIII for $20.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    SIII is pretty much a smaller Note, similar specs. Note size is definitely pushing it, but I have made it work. The text and web experience is worth it. Samsung has a few home runs under their belt now, just a shame about the build quality.

    For me, no removable memory and battery is a deal breaker. HTC has moved to that on some models, too - just like the iPhone (I think). No thanks, I want as much control over my device as possible, and don't want to have to rely on data usage and cloud stuff to move files.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited January 2013
    Tony, et all, please read this article from Rocco Pendola of The Street: It puts things in perspective.

    http://www.thestreet.com/story/11825852/1/apple-hate-has-spun-out-of-control-and- - -it-needs-to-stop.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    No thanks, I want as much control over my device as possible, and don't want to have to rely on data usage and cloud stuff to move files.

    Definitely, I forgot about the battery.

    I've been happy with my SIII, it's a huge improvement over the Galaxy S I had.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I had an original Galaxy too (Vibrant). Was amazing at the time with the HD style display. Then a couple of HTCs - wonderful build quality, but they don't seem to have Samsung performance. If Samsung could make something with a metal and soft material case, it would be perfect.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Checked it out....I really think the management has more responsibilities to the share holder ....Not a lot, but forward management is important.....The size of the company is partially why I think this to be important....I read the letters in response also, and many of them are worthwhile, but they mostly act as though aapl doesn`t return anything to the shareholder, which as you know is incorrect....I`v said many years ago, the purpose to invest in a company is to share in the success....I hope they address that in the near future...

    As you remember a while ago when the stock seemed stuck in the mid three hundreds, and doing very well, the big holders were rightfully worried over Mr Jobs impending demise.....I think this problem now can and should be addressed in a more aggressive dividend policy....and investor relations ...

    The big holders of Costco paid themselves a large year end dividend...I think that was wrong as the holders over the years really earned that money, and should have been rewarded along the way....Just as an example Tony ps The grandson has a school project to invest a hundred thousand ....His group put fifty thousand in apple two days ago, so he is ahead on that, but way behind (along with me) in the real world......They are thinking of BA next...I`m not saying a word :)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    Was amazing at the time with the HD style display.

    True, I upgraded to the Galaxy S (Captivate) from a Samsung Black Jack running Windows Mobile (yuck). Sure, the Galaxy doesn't impress with spectacular materials. I sometimes wonder if the back cover will just break in half.

    My original Galaxy was always flaky. I had one exchanged out for a new one, the GPS was horrible, even after the update. I'd bring up a map and it would sometimes be miles off. Also, I made the mistake of upgrading to Froyo 2.2 (that or gingerbread, can't remember exactly). It would freeze, crash, and just gave me a lot of grief. I though about going Apple after that. But I must say, I'm pretty happy with the SIII. I got it on a one day sale at Best Buy for $100 w/ contract. I couldn't pass it up for that price. Plus I was able to sell my old Galaxy on Ebay for over $100. It's amazing what people will pay for used electronics considering mine was a first gen Galaxy S. Certainly not an up to date phone by any means.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Went to Verizon today. They will sell me the Galaxy Note 2 without a contract on a month to month data only plan. The kicker is it has to be activated at the time of purchase. I don't need it until I go on vacation. By then the Note 8.0 should be available. I buy $40 worth of service for our month on the road and use it Wifi the rest of the year.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I guess you could have it activated then cancel it. Most you'd be out is the $40 for the first month.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited January 2013
    Samsung phones were pretty lame before the Galaxy - I never even bothered with one before (I work in telecom and have exposure to many devices). I used HTC for years, but now they have gone a little lame in the performance category, and that's what matters no. Never had the iPhone urge, seems too controlled for me. But, as the market proves, a lot of people like that, along with the smooth seamless interface, and the trendiness factor.

    I sold my original Galaxy to my brother, he had it for another year or so, it eventually died, probably due to misuse. I never had a gps issue, but didn't use that feature often.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would just get it re-activated when needed.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Don't forget the $35 activation fee the first time you activate it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2013
    According to the Verizon website, you can get prepaid with no activation or reconnect fees. Here is the plan page.

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/prepay/processPrePayRequest.do?&type=pptablet- -

    Prepaid Monthly Plans for Tablets
    Monthly Access Fee $20 $30 $50 $80
    Monthly Data Allowance 1 GB 2 GB 5 GB 10 GB
    No activation or reconnection fees and no overage charges!
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Checked it out....I really think the management has more responsibilities to the share holder

    I hear you Tony! I do believe that management is listening to what's been going on in recent weeks and days and eventually, we will be rewarded.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Of course you guys still remember the MF Global fiasco. Well, it looks like folks like myself that held out to get 100% of our money instead of selling our claim to a fund, will reach a happy ending. Also, in the article, take a look and see what it says about Mr. Corzine. It will surprise you. Now, if only Apple can once again become a hot stock for investors and reach the $700 level, it would be the ultimate jubilation.

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/mf-globals-bankruptcy-closes-in-on-a-happ- y-conclusion/
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    edited January 2013
    Great news. I know it must be a tremendous relief to you and your family. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Thanks Houdini! It certainly is a relief for us.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Sorry Charlie, I meant to answer you last night....Wonderful news....seems the authorities that theoretically insure us `muffins` should have long ago stepped in...Tony
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    And now today, as I get closer to taking some `bond` exposure off the table, the question arises ---What to do with the proceeds----No particularly exciting mutual funds, and the stock market getting ready to extinguish some `money`...Might put some in tax free leveraged municipal fund? but then again they might change the rules.....The tax increase is alot larger than I think people realize.....Might give some income to `grandchildren`til I need it again :) Any Thoughts ? :-) Tony
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You could buy a retirement villa in Belize, then put it into a rental pool. Or buy a nice sail boat and put it into a rental service in St Thomas. I think a lot of our Congress people are invested off shore to protect their assets.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    That might be a quick way to loose......I did , a few years ago, buy some Canadian oil producing stocks, but the accounting turned into a problem....for taxes....I didn`t too terribly but would have lost considerably had I stayed due to 2008....whew... I`l just stick with the old USA...:) Tony
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If I was a high roller I would consider investments outside the USA. I am not so I will plug along here making a few bucks here and there. Mostly in RE.

    What is with GOOG? I don't see the attraction at that price. I would buy AAPL first.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    There are just so many things that go on outside America, that you really need someone like Mobias (sp) , and even then I don`t think (until lately) he has been so good.....The last really decent fellow that gave reasonable, but not spectacular advice was Templeton.....

    Like you I am just shooting to make small hits, and not loose the principal...

    I at least understand aapl`s products and overall strategy, but goog is a great product, and I guess it is all based on advertisements, then other innovations...I too would buy aapl, but I want to see some more dividend enhancement.....to make me a believer in the current management....I have some at higher prices, but I am not worried about the current loss, as I believe in the company...Tony
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited February 2013
    I too would buy aapl, but I want to see some more dividend enhancement.....to make me a believer in the current management....I have some at higher prices, but I am not worried about the current loss, as I believe in the company.

    Tony, believe it or not I like what I have been seeing the way AAPL has been acting the past few days. Yes, it has closed lower each of the last 2-3 days, but it has not fallen off a cliff. I think that the big funds, etc. have all dumped AAPL by now. Even though the Dow was sharply higher today and AAPL closed about $1.80 lower, I am really optimistic for Monday. I would not be surprised to see AAPL gap open higher. There! I hope I have not jinxed it. I don't think I did. Let's see if I'm proven right on Monday.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I at least understand aapl`s products and overall strategy

    Maybe it is the strategy of hoarding a HUGE pile of cash in other countries that has investors leery of Apple. What is protecting that $130+billion in those countries. Wonder if some flake like the new President in France were to declare a big tax on all monies in the banks of a country where Apple has it stashed. Of course bringing it back to CA could cost them 45% or more. Would Apple even be able to buy a company in the USA they are interested in without being taxed heavily. I would have more interest in them if they paid a regular dividend.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    They do pay a regular dividend I think $2.65 a quarter.....A yield of a bit more than two percent.......

    I don`t care what everyone says, I believe a higher dividend would show confidence and reward the investor....The stock would appreciate accordingly..

    Personally I could not take such a large swing if aapl were a meaningful holding, therefore once they decide they want to take some of the volatility out, I`l be an aggressive buyer if I have the opportunity .....:) Tony
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,518
    All that cash seems great, but it makes me wonder about management, that the best use for their cash is to sit around making a 1% return...

    If management thinks the stock is undervalued, they should be buying it back, hand over fist.. (they aren't).

    Otherwise, double that dividend... Or, declare a special dividend ($10/share, for starters..)

    Or, buy REITs... ;)

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  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I saw somewhere a break down of their holdings, and although I do not know if it were truthful, it did plant the seed of doubt in my mind that possibly they would keep the cash --invest it however--and use the proceeds to continue building the company, sort of like Buffet and Berkshire.....

    I would have alot of Berkshire if they paid a dividend.......The idea behind Buffet , is to just sell off stock whenever, and pay a minimum tax.....The stock is now appreciating, but there were a number of years where it shrank.....I`m not that wealthy :) Tony
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