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The Stock Market and Investing

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Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I appreciate that everyone has their own investment techniques, but I just don't understand how some of you can sit back and watch your investments go through this blood bath.

    I feel great that I completely removed myself from the market before this major decline. I just couldn't stand back and watch what this kind of situation would have done to my bottom line.

    Other than a small, speculative purchase of Citigroup, I am totally out of stocks, and my primary objective has been, and still is, "preservation of capital".

    To be clear, I do not see this latest decline as a buying opportunity... not yet.

    TM
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I really believe that Obama means to do well... He is a good-hearted individual.

    On this I completely agree. I like Obama as a person and he's a good man in principles. But as a leader and President - no.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    I like Obama as a person and he's a good man in principles.

    You might like him as a person, but... Obama is a TERRIBLE president, with TERRIBLE policies that are putting this country in serious jeopardy. Unless he miraculously wakes up to reality, we are all going to pay a serious and painful price as a result of his presidency.

    TM
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Well, I agree about the part that Obama is a horrible president. I thought he was OK as a person at first, but no more. I am not sure what his motives are but I do not like the fact that the rest of the world is fairly uniformly against anything that we do here in the U.S. We don't need Obama to agree with them.

    I don't think he will be happy until the people in the U.S. are living in as miserable conditions as people in the lowest third world country.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited May 2010
    Patience....at the end of the day, it's only money. Funny how some people put such an emphasis on the stuff. Here's why I follow the loooooong term approach...learned it from Sweet Lou Rukeyser:

    Comforting the nation after the 1987 crash, he quipped how “Everybody who really loved you a week ago still loves you tonight, and that’s a heck of a lot more important than the numbers on a brokerage statement.” The market recovered within two years.

    Why worry about things out of your control? When you think you control it, it slips away.... ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited May 2010
    "Obama is a TERRIBLE president, with TERRIBLE policies that are putting this country in serious jeopardy."

    Totally agree - which is why a second term with him would be disatrous for us. I haven't liked Obama since day one of his running for President. The guy wrote a book and ran nothing big and served no time in the military and had no foreign affairs experience. The momenmt he said "we're going to spread it around" you knew he had no economic sense. I was hoping for mediocrity at least but that now seems to be real wishful thinking. As for leadership, can you imagine that we can't even say the words Islamic trerrorist re the Times Square incident?? The only person in politics that gets me madder these days is Pelosi. The third would be Holder. He'd label Pearl Harbor as a criminal act to be tried in Honolulu. We have some real lulu's running this country right now. We have a bunch of booksmart theoretical people in office with no streetsmarts at all.

    BTW - anyone remember Obama's speech about surgery. He stated he'd be like a surgeon and fix things with a laser rather than re-inventing the wheel. That's the last thing in the world this guy has been faithful to. Witness the healthcare bill.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    "Fear has obviously gripped the market, and we're trading accordingly," analyst and trader Stephen Schork said.

    Benchmark crude for June delivery lost $5.34 at $64.53 a barrel on the contract's final trading day on the New York Mercantile Exchange. If that holds, it'll be the sharpest one-day drop since April 2009. Prices tumbled as low as $64.24 earlier in the day, the lowest price for oil since July.

    Most of the trading already has moved to the July contract, which lost $3.52 at $68.96 a barrel.

    If the world doesn't start sopping up excess supplies, oil prices may fall into the $40-per-barrel range this year, Lynch said.


    Pay the Piper Time

    Len, the fundamentals are FINALLY in play now...just like everyone that is over-extended will need to snap back!

    Here it comes...I can hear it now... "NY to London $90RT/PP", Porsche 911 - 0% Financing!!, "Open a $10K CD and get a Smart for Two!"

    Regards,
    OW
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    TM, I can only speak for myself, when the markets show down trends, I would hedge my bigger bets (calls) with puts, so the past couple of weeks has not lowered my portfolio all that much. Now the challenge is to determine when to sell the puts for some gain when the markets start going the other way. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    but our government is out-of-whack and sold-out to special interests, our markets are out-of-whack, and our economy is out-of-whack

    Sounds like business as usual to me. :D

    I took a mini-vacation over to Yellowstone last weekend. Midst all the doom and gloom you hear from the talking heads, it's pretty nice out there in the real world. I killed my TV years ago. Next I'm going to kill Drudge and CNN. :P
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    the fundamentals are FINALLY in play now

    Here it comes...I can hear it now... "NY to London $90RT/PP", Porsche 911 - 0% Financing!!, "Open a $10K CD and get a Smart for Two!"

    Nothing about that is based upon any fundamentals... terrible desperation based upon yet another dose of severe irrationality is more like it, IMHO.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Len, you and I really agree on our politics!

    TM
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited May 2010
    The more leveraged something is the faster it will fall. That price point meant oil fell 27% in 2 weeks! Also oil isn't much of a currency in a rising dollar environment and think about the near world record of oil sitting in storage and on containers at sea, much of it bought in the 78-85 range.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    But Charlie's going to kill us both over our Obama opinion.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    But Charlie's going to kill us both over our Obama opinion.

    Of course not... He'll discuss it with his advisors and they will come up with some sort of political/social reform package to solve the problem. Of course he will have to print up some money to pay for the program, and then he will increase your and my taxes... but it will all be worth it, because we will all then live in perfect harmony together, and share everything equally, that is until someone sneaks over the border and takes it from us, and then Charlie will send Hillary Clinton on a fact-finding mission. She will return to tell him that it had nothing to do with the Islamic world, so Charlie will then go after the banks and blame them for all the problems. But before he can do that, he'll need to talk to his advisors about creating a reform package, print up some more money... and, of course, raise taxes.

    So... no... don't worry about Charlie... he is a well-meaning guy with good principles.

    TM

    (Charlie... Please forgive me... I couldn't resist!... LOL)
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I sure agree with you......Today I spent three hours working with a friend, so I treated him to lunch and shared forty five dollars out my pocket.....He was about out of gas in his remarkably comfortable ten year old car..so we also put ten dollars worth in it...That bought a little more than three gallons....To me the cost of fuel is quite expensive if you perceive it from the other fellows eyes.....As you say` patience ` Tony
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes, like I said, everyone over-leveraged has to unwind. You play, you pay.

    I get a particularly large smile on when it has to do with the "Liquid Gold" market. :D

    Nothing wrong with a nice, cheap European vacation! The Parthenon would be nice for under $100 round-trip AF! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    What a great day in the Market...All my yields went up considerably !!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    What a great day in the Market...All my yields went up considerably !!!

    Absolutely! ;)

    The fixed securities part of my portfolio is doing great, as well. Not only returning steady yields, but appreciating in value at the same time.

    And, I am sure that Tony is also doing well. He's also into those fixed securities.

    Stocks suck right now. I warned everyone. I really did.

    TM
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Len, you and I really agree on our politics!

    You can put me down on that side also. I believe Obama embodies all that was bad with FDR, LBJ and Jimmy Carter. We need to turn off the spigot. Getting rid of the worst Congress in our history this November will be a good start.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,990
    Yes, replacing them with the same idiots who were voted out in 06 is a sure way to cure the economy. The false boom of the early 'oughts is what we need again.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I sure as hell don't want to replace one idiot with another. It's an American tragedy when that's our only choices!

    When we cast our ballots, we can choose between two idiots, and try to predict which one will cause the least damage.

    This is Tagman's simple list of 5 things to help save the United States:

    1. a balanced budget amendment
    2. an end to lobbying
    3. term limits
    4. flat tax
    5. illegal aliens are in fact ILLEGAL.

    Let's start with those 5, and we'll move forward from there.

    TM
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    1. a balanced budget amendment
    2. an end to lobbying
    3. term limits
    4. flat tax
    5. illegal aliens are in fact ILLEGAL.


    That's a pretty darn good list.
    Except NOT a BB amendment -- balance the ACTUAL budget every time! No talk, DO! California is supposed to have a balanced budget by law every year and they have been resorting to accounting games for a long time. And now the crows have come home to roost! So the amendment is not as important as actually doing it.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    edited May 2010
    TM, make sure you let us know when the markets is about to hit bottom.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    TM, make sure you let us know when the markets is about to hit bottom.

    Well... let me put it this way... I purchased 14 stocks early this morning.

    That leaves me with 15 stocks in total (I already purchased Citi earlier in the week)

    I think that helps to answer your question. But, be careful... because I do still believe that there is a very good chance that there is more downnside down the road. But, there is no way that I could not purchase at this point. I now own some of the same stocks for a far better price than when I sold them at a much higher price.

    Also, let me point out that I purchased a moderate level of shares at this point.

    These are the exact stocks I now own, in varying amounts:

    AAPL
    AMAT
    AMD
    AMT
    C
    CRUS
    CSCO
    F
    GE
    GOOG
    HPQ
    INTC
    JDSU
    S
    VFC

    To be clear, there might be more downside ahead... but I believe it is time to start buying, in moderation, with extreme caution, and I did so this morning, as I indicated.

    TM
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Obama is a TERRIBLE president, with TERRIBLE policies that are putting this country in serious jeopardy. Unless he miraculously wakes up to reality, we are all going to pay a serious and painful price as a result of his presidency.

    Man, I leave you guys for a few days and there is a MAJOR meltdown. BTW, I drove to Chicago for some business meetings Wednesday afternoon and Thursday morning. I knew the stock market was collapsing, but I never had the time to post anything here.

    Now back to our President. I really think that some of you guys are getting brainwashed by the far right wing Republicans. Can you imagine what would have happened if the President and this administration would not have made some of those difficult decisions they made about a year to a year and a half ago? I cringe at the possibilities. I really think we would have had a new and major Great Depression. It's easy to point fingers and say after the fact that someone else could have done a lot better.

    Did any of you hear the President's speech on the proposed financial regulations late yesterday afternoon? I was listening intently as I was driving back home from Chicago on I-80. I thought it was a great speech and I did not find one thing on which I had a disagreement. My thinking at the time was that investors would consider that speech a positive for the market.

    BTW, I would not live in Chicago if you paid me a $million. The congestion is incomprehensible. It took me an hour to drive the last 7 miles into downtown.

    Now I'm sure I'll be hearing it from all you Obama haters.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    Oh, c'mon Charlie... you know better than that.

    Tax and spend, help the special interests, create a new entitlement program, print more money... more illiegal aliens and bigger deficit.

    Tax and spend, help the special interests, create a new entitlement program, print more money... more illiegal aliens and bigger deficit.

    Tax and spend, help the special interests, create a new entitlement program, print more money... more illiegal aliens and bigger deficit.

    Tax and spend, help the special interests, create a new entitlement program, print more money... more illiegal aliens and bigger deficit.

    It's an addictive and destructive cycle.

    How is that insanity good for America?

    TM

    Charlie, this market is crazy and amazing to me!
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited May 2010
    OK, OK, let's not discuss politics now because it will get us nowhere. Let's agree to disagree.

    The market has been amazing to me as well. The volatility is beyond description. Hopefully, we are near the bottom of a big correction. I bought more AAPL yesterday at $237 or so. I have never invested this much in a stock, ever.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    edited May 2010
    I want to borrow that crystal ball of yours. It sure looks like you made your moves with perfect timing. :)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    OK, OK, let's not discuss politics now because it will get us nowhere. Let's agree to disagree.

    We can disagree and still discuss it... nothing wrong with that. That's how people change their minds. Think about it... I have considered a Toyota product, and Len drives a Mercedes... so it's a good thing to be able to discuss the pros and cons, even if we don't agree.

    The market has been amazing to me as well. The volatility is beyond description. Hopefully we ar near a bottom. I bought more AAPL yesterday at $237 or so. I have never invested this much in a stock, ever.

    Yes, it's volatile... an 850 point swing this week!

    You are smart to buy AAPL, IMO. I listed the exact stocks I bought early this morning. AAPL is one of them.

    Check out the others, and look at today's gains, and see if you don't agree that those stocks should have good upside potential, even if we haven't hit the bottom of this market yet.

    If you have any questions on any of them , let me know.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    I want to borrow that crystall ball of yours. It sure looks like you made your moves with perfect timing.

    Ha... thanks!... It sure does look that way. But, I am only purchasing stocks right now as a stepping stone strategy. If they go further down, I am comfortable with today's position and moderate purchases, and I still have most of my cash on the sidelines, so I can buy even more at a new lower interval, in the event that happens.

    I feel like I am in a terrific position right now... so that whichever direction the market goes, I can take advantage of it. Gotta love it!

    TM
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited May 2010
    Check out the others, and look at today's gains, and see if you don't agree that those stocks should have good upside potential, even if we haven't hit the bottom of this market yet.

    I also own AMD, AMT, and F. I am losing a little on all 3 after the big move down in recent days. I cannot get in and out as easily as you can. Besides, as you know, I was not betting the farm and I was willing to ride this down. I did add to some of my stocks on the correction. Some of the other stocks I own include: AMZN, BGP, BZH, CF, DE (I encourage you to buy thi stock), ESLR, FDX, HOV, IDTI, LPL, LOW, PKX, & SIRI,

    I like your stocks. You will eventually make a "killing".
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I did add to some of my stocks on the correction. Some of the other stocks I own include: AMZN, BGP, BZH, CF, DE (I encourage you to buy thi stock), ESLR, FDX, HOV, IDTI, LPL, LOW, PKX, & SIRI,

    Sounds good... I will follow up on them... You have others?

    I like your stocks. You will eventually make a "killing".

    That would be nice. :)

    TM
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I feel like I am in a terrific position right now... so that whichever direction the market goes, I can take advantage of it. Gotta love it!

    For the markets to end on an up swing on a Friday, I think you are in a very good position for next week.
    I've only managed to unhedge my long bets on AAPL and RIMM, so I am hoping to complete my double-dipping in the coming week.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited May 2010
    Tax and spend, help the special interests (banks, GM, C), create a new entitlement program, print more money... more illegal aliens and bigger deficit.

    Just to be fair, looking at GWB, it was:

    Cut taxes and spend, help the special interests (Halliburton), create a new entitlement program (Medicare prescription drugs), print more money, more illegal aliens and bigger deficit...

    How WAS that insanity good for America?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,990
    I was going to say - all of those negative attributes weren't exactly dead during the previous regime, and they won't vanish with the next one.

    Weird markets today...looks like a few people bought into Germany's bailout plan. I can't say I think it is any kind of savior, as it doesn't seem to address anything in the longer term. Just like corporate and public sector America.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    How WAS that insanity good for America?

    It wasn't. It was sickening. And Dick Cheney was (is?) one of the most dangerous individuals on the face of the earth.

    ... the underlying ideology regarding tax policy was a wee bit better... nothing like a flat tax, though, which is what this country really needs.

    Shame we don't seem to have any better choices than an idiot from the Democrats, or an idiot from the Republicans.

    I sort of miss Ronald Reagan.

    TM
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    As someone who trades much less than you do, it is always a relief when you re-enter the market. And it is terrifying when you get out !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    looks like a few people bought into Germany's bailout plan.

    just a "few"? ;)

    I can't say I think it is any kind of savior, as it doesn't seem to address anything in the longer term. Just like corporate and public sector America.

    Agree.

    Just another band-aid, in a series of band-aids... best of which was Obama's "cash for clunkers"!... hahaha... loved that goofy program... it actually worked!

    Guess we can give Obama some credit afterall! ;)

    TM
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It wasn't. It was sickening. And Dick Chevey was (is?) one of the most dangerous individuals on the face of the earth.

    ... the underlying ideology regarding tax policy was a wee bit better... nothing like a flat tax, though, which is what this country really needs.

    Shame we don't seem have any better choices than an idiot from the Democrats, or idiot from the Republicans.

    I sort of miss Ronald Reagan.


    Completely agree. I don't disagree with your original post, I just didn't want to let the Republicans off the hook. :mad:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    As someone who trades much less than you do, it is always a relief when you re-enter the market. And it is terrifying when you get out !!

    LOL... True, generally.... although I was genuinely relieved to be out this last time. I think I had "too much for comfort" riding on it, with all that volatility, and I was particularly relieved when I saw the market nosedive after I rescued my capital. That felt real good.

    That said, you are right that there is a sense of relief to know that I don't have to keep wondering when to get back in... that's the hardest part. But, I'm not done... I'm doing this in intervals, and I'll need to determine the next window of opportunity. Stay tuned. :)

    TM
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,990
    It seems policymakers and various talking head politicos and suits don't understand the difference between a symptom and a disease. And look at the mess they have wrought...while all pretty much able to retire as wealthy men.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In the decade I've been here, I don't recall seeing anyone say that a political post on a thread has changed their mind. Probably just hardened their position. Think Ford v Chevy guys.

    We do have a political board that I suggest you check out if you like that sort of vitriol:

    Forget Bushisms, Biden Gaffes, We have Obama blunders
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Speaking of politics. Is there any word on this new set of regulations of Wall Street? And will it make it better or worse? With that mess caused by the 1000+ point drop, something is needed. Not sure what.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    OK, let's have a short deviation from markets. May be faces are not familiar to many, but words are of the most appealing actuality.

    Mischievous Times Cartoon

    Regards,
    Jose
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    if you like that sort of vitriol:

    Actually that forum is a LOT more polite than most out on the internet. We are a refined bunch here! :P :shades:
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited May 2010
    OK, OK, let's not discuss politics now because it will get us nowhere. Let's agree to disagree.

    Charlie, love and respect you buddy but the guy is getting worse and worse and he's graying fast too.

    But back to business. This link is what both of us were seeing in the economy too and why I'm expecting a rapid bounce back, possibly to new highs, if investors stop over-reacting to the European crisis.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAEgKSfj5dUg&pos=1
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    But back to business. This link is what both of us were seeing in the economy too and why I'm expecting a rapid bounce back, possibly to new highs, if investors stop over-reacting to the European crisis.

    I continue to be encouraged by the U.S. economic recovery. That is why I have been loading up on AAPL and a few other stocks recently. This brings me to an interesting question: Can't you, Tag, and others give Obama any credit at all for the gradual recovery? Are you guys saying that the economy is recovering in spite of Obama? I refuse to believe this view.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    How about we just stick to stocks in here?

    Thanks.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    Can't you, Tag, and others give Obama any credit at all for the gradual recovery? Are you guys saying that the economy is recovering in spite of Obama?

    I do give him some credit, yes. I have posted that in the past. I particularly liked the "cash for clunkers" program... LOL. It did, in fact, stimulate and jump start auto sales... I am convinced it was a factor in the increase in Ford's business and thus their share prices. :)

    Seriously, things could be a lot worse... I am realistic. But, it's always a double-edged sword... fix some things and ruin others. I am sick and tired of the trade-offs, from one set of problems to another.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    edited May 2010
    Steve,

    No one has gotten into a heated political argument here, and discussions have, for the most part, been with regards to the economy and the financial impact of politicians and policies.

    The forum is indeed about stocks and investing. It would be kind of naive to suggest that we shouldn't discuss the relevant factors that affect stocks and investments. Sometimes, particularly at this current time in history as we recover from a devastating global financial crisis, the political factors are directly relevant, as they are going to impact the recovery, and impact the global markets, and our investments.

    So far, it's been very civil and interesting and engaging.

    I post this all respectfully, of course... and I will personally try to be more careful to filter my own posts... but I hope we can all continue to make those policial references that are related to the economy or finances, the markets, and therefore stocks and investing. I think the others here would agree with me here on this, and I hope you will consider it. Thanks Steve!

    TM
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