Toyota Sequoia

jimxo

Yes, I said hybrid. Toyota plans to offer a V8 Hybrid engine soon after the new redesign Lexus GS430 gets it in 2007.

katzat

Steve, reading your original post and the responses to it made me laugh. My wife and I sort of did the same thing (I thought I was buying the truck for her). Since the purchase, (still not delivered) she constantly refers to the truck as if it were mine (Mr. Katzat as opposed to Mrs. Katzat) although as soon as it is delivered we will transfer the baby seats from the old Volvo to the Sequoia and I will assume ownership (or at least perpetual drivership) of the Volvo. Furthermore, she has forbidden me from using it for any of the following:
Hunting
Fishing
Doing anything in it with my Father (he is a slob)
Using it for business travel

She now claims that if the decision were hers, she would have rather have purchased a Land Cruiser/LX-470 (too small/can’t afford) or a Range Rover (scared of its reliability and can’t afford). I don’t really believe this as she was the first to notice the Sequoia and has stopped countless moms in shopping center parking lots to get their take on their Sequoias (all have raved about them) over the past couple of years.

It has become apparent to me that I will be keeping the old F250 4x4 for all of my recreational purposes until the newness of the Sequoia wears off.

BTW: My wife has also begun to worry that with the slew of new technology that the competitors are pouring into their SUVs, the Sequoia will be due for an overhaul within a year or so, and she will be forced to wish she had a new one. She really wanted the factory Navigation system and the flat folding rear seats. Based on my read of this site and Toyota in general, I am not expecting a design overhaul before mid-year ’05. Even then, it will probably not be terribly drastic. Even if we knew this for certain, I doubt she would have wanted to wait the extra year and a half to pay the premium for this new design.

istargazer

The Limited does not have dual front (driver/passenger) climate control. It's not available on the current Sequoias at all.

stevek80

Yea.. That stinks.. It's on the 4Runner but not on the Sequoia.. I asked why not?? and got the blank look.. It's not the sales guy's fault but since he represents Toyota.. He takes ownership of all issues.. 8-)

jm459387

istargazer, thanks for the reply. I test drove a Limited and could have sworn it had two front zones. It's not a huge deal but it would be nice. Toyota.com lists auto. climate control as an option on the SR5 which is confusing if it's standard.

bp3959

For all of you who hate not being able to disable traction control, here's an easy solution(this is temporary and will not harm the truck). On the side of the brake fluid reservoir(clear plastic with fluid level markings on the side and a filler cap on top) there are two wires, simply pull out the connector(you should tape the end of the connector if you are going to do this for any extended period of time to keep out water). Check your dash lights and you will see that traction control is turned off. If you do this with the truck running, it will stay disabled until you stop and restart the engine. Surprisingly this does not disable ABS as I first expected. I've confirmed with my local dealer that doing this will not harm the brake or traction control system in any way.

If you wish to do something like this on a regular basis, you can simply hook a toggle switch between either wire going to the connector. When driving down the road simply hit the switch and it'll disable traction control, and then restart your engine when you wish to re-enable it.

ar15

Why would I want to do that?

wwest

disable ABS and keep VSC/Trac....

sequoiasoon

I was driving on Saturday in the "blizzard" on Long Island, road covered in snow. I'm doing 45 mph and lovin' life. '03 Sequoia in 4wd (center diff unlocked) 4 Nokian snows gripping good, hit a snow rut/mound and BAMM throttle cuts, VSC lights up, still going perfectly straight almost 10 seconds before it reset itself now doing 10 mph almost getting rear ended! SCARRY!!!! Locked center diff after that to disable VSC which would have been the perfect opportunity to have it on. With the drive by wire you can give it as much gas as you want, computer says nope, I think your skidding out of control. If it was raining and the wife had it when it did this who knows what would have happened. Only way to disable to VSC otherwise is with a locked center diff.

pschreck

VSC can be disabled by pressing the switch on the dash. As for the dethrottling function of TRACS, that disengages when you put it into 4WD.

Can you lock the center diff on a newer than '01 Sequoia without putting it into 4WD Low and in 1st gear? I know you can't do it on a '01 unless you are in 4WD Low with the tranny in first gear. At that point you won't be going 45mph.

Maybe you're confusing TRACS with VSC. Locking the center diff will disable TRACS not VSC. I believe what you experienced was VSC kicking in because it sensed your rearend jumping around after hitting the bump. That caused it to dethrottle.

What's cliffy's take on this situation?

watchdog3

I live in the Mid west and am hearing of $7500-$10,000 discounts on 2003 4X4 Sequoias in Southern California. Can someone confirm from experience if these are only on Limiteds? I want leather but don't need all the bells and whistles. I would like to find something in the $44K MSRP range. A friend said to look at Longo because they are the biggest? Which other dealers are the most aggressive. Since I have to travel to get either way, I can go to any dealer. Who is the EXPERT out there that has first hand experience???????

sequoiasoon

on the '03 Sequoia there is no button to turn off the VSC. You have 2 button choices. 4WD (actually AWD) and next to it a button to lock the center diff (like other 4WD systems) The center diff can be locked at any point (but not recommended for dry / high traction) as other 4wd systems operate due to the stress by not allowing slip in turns etc. 4LO automatically turns off the VSC as indicated by a light on dash as well as when you lock the center diff it turns off. Maybe it was the TRACS maybe it was both but when I had my Exploder there was never an issue in those situations (many other problems TRANNY). I did many years in the Adirondacks and Canada and Berkshire (MA)/ Green Mountain (VT) snows as long as a little common sense and good snows are invloved driving in snow can be FUN. This made it NO fun as I felt unconfident when I had to go around the 20" rim tuner special Civic with performance tires in case power was cut again.

watchdog3

I have made some calls to several dealers in Southern California re: 2003 4X4 Sequoias. Here is what I am finding over the phone: Longo will do $6500 off MSRP both Limited and SR5. Hollywood $5000 off MSRP Wondries will do $7500 off MSRP for Limiteds.

Sounds like any more off is unobtainable unless I am doing this the wrong way....... can anyone confirm...............

yickwo

When I did my shopping in late Oct./early Nov. So. Cal area advertised discounts were in the $7,500 - $10,000 off MSRP range (the $10,000 is on 4X4 limited only). I bought a '03 Limited 4X2 with $9,500 off MSRP from No. County Toyota. I don't think they are runing that special any more. At that time, the cash rebate was $1500 (it is now $1000). About two - three weeks ago, I saw an ad from Power Toyota Irvine with $6,000 off '04 limited. I have not seen any more So. Cal. ads on sequoias since then. For more information, read my prior posts. Also, Longo is the biggest but they did not even bother to respond to my inquries about matching other dealer's ad price. I would suggest that you wait and see if there are any more ad specials. I'll be happy to post them if I see them.

cliffy1

The throttle down issue shouldn't happen in 4WD. Well, it will a little bit, but only enough to get you moving in the direction you are pointed. The severe reaction that was described sounds a whole lot more like what happens when you are NOT in 4WD.

stevek80

I've read posts but I'm not sure what this is.. Is it like auto 4wd. Your ride with VSC on and when the truck feels slipage it locks into 4wd? These last posts sounds like the truck shuts down some how.. Thanks in advance..

pschreck

A quote from cliffy1. This applies to the 2001 but I think it is the same on current models.

"The other part of this system is the VSC or vehicle skid control. VSC will selectively apply brakes and throttle to prevent understeer or oversteer. It works in both 2 and 4 wheel drive. This is a rather amazing system and does an incredible job of giving the driver control of the vehicle. Understeer is responsible for a large number of SUV rollovers and oversteer is very common on icy surfaces. The Sequoia will allow you to turn off the VSC but only when you are in 4WD. The only reason to turn this off is if you are off road and want to be able to slide sideways. On the Runner and Land Cruiser, the VSC and TRACS are disabled when you lock the center differential."

You can find the rest of this post on the Toyota 4WE Systems Explained board. Go to the beginning.

pschreck

As for the Sequoia's 4WD system, it really isn't like Auto4WD at all. It is a Full-Time system that you can put into 2WD. When engaged it drives all four wheels all the time and can be used in any conditions. Auto4WD is a Part-Time system that will react to slippage after it happens. It only drives the front wheels after slippage has occured unless it's center transfer case (not a differential) is locked, at which point you wouldn't want to drive it on dry pavement.

cliffy1

Correct as usual.

sequoiasoon

Think there might be an issue with the VSC on mine? I was definitely in 4WD (all 4 green lights lit, no orange center(unlocked diff)) With the 20" of snow in 30 hours we got they had a REAL hard time clearing the roads. I did try 2 wheel a couple times on the back roads just to see how it did. When it throttled back as much as it did I was definitely in 4wd and was not happy. Problem is how do you re-create this one time during a blizzard scenario so it can be diagnosed? Is it possible to retro the '03 and install a throttle cable instead of drive by wire?

wwest

Is there any possibility that you had cruise on?

The scenerio you describe should only occur if someone persists on mashing the footfeed down after the vehicle has clearly lost traction. In the absence of a human doing it cruise certainly would.

Some car will automatically disable cruise the instant VSC or Trac "trips" but I don't know about the Sequoia.

wwest

My understanding of the Sequoia's AWD (full-time 4WD) is that it uses the same system as was introduced in the ML and is now used in the RX330 and the Sienna.

Open center differential with brake modulation for torque apportioning as needed. Torque delivered evenly to all for 4 wheels when equal traction is available.

cliffy1

Not an issue with the VSC. An issue with the traction control. They are similar systems but don't confuse them. The VSC only deals with lateral skids, meaning sliding side to side and there is not a huge amount of throttle down in this situation. The traction control does have a throttle down but only in 2WD.

I honestly don't know what to make of your situation.

rpnuge

I have an 03 Sequoia and just brought to dealer for 5k service. To my surprise, they put in 10W30 oil instead of 5W30 recommended in the manual. I live in New England and it's cold. How big of an issue is this? Manual says in cold weather 5W30 is best, 10W30 can be substituted.

Also, Edmunds.com suggests changing diff fluid every 5k, but Toyota manual has it being done at 30k. Is the diff fluid part of the 4WD system? I only use 4WD sparingly. Any comments?

Thanks to all the Sequoia owners on this board, I've learned alot.

I love my Sequoia.

Rich

stever

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide sometimes is wrong. Anyone else like to comment before I send in a Feedback Form?

Dealers buy oil in bulk and put the same stuff in every rig; I don't think any of them particularly care what the factory manual recommends so long as they can take the cheap way out :-)

Heaven help you if you d-i-y with the recommended grade and have an engine problem though; the dealers will scream that you didn't follow the oil change intervals recommended by the manual and deny warranty coverage.

Steve, Host

stakeout

I was starting to look at the Sequoia 4wd for my wife since her Subn 4wd lease is over in a few months.. sounds to me that this more complicated system suxxxxxx... and I thought GM was screwed up..wow.. why would they make such a simpified system as 4wd so complicated.. except to favor the service people

sequoiasoon

I went and got the owners manual and the manual calls it Active Traction Control system and says "The active traction control system automatically helps prevent the spinning of 4 wheels (4WD mode) or rear wheels (2WD mode) when the vehicle is started or accelerated on slippery road surfaces." The next page says to leave the system on during ordinary driving so it can operate when needed and then when it is operating, the following conditions occur. "The system controls the spinning of the 4 wheels (4WD mode) or rear wheels (2WD mode). At this time, the slip indicator light blinks."

So lesson learned, Always read the owners manual!!! (and not at 1 AM like I did when I first bought the truck).

So Cliffy you are correct it probably was the A-Trac and not VSC (I wasn't sure which one caused the issue since I thought only 2 wheels were on the bumps and maybe it sensed the slight wheel turn and one side with less traction).

wwest- definitely no cruise on, crazy not insane!

So the question is Can the TRAC system be turned off? The 2WD models have a TRAC OFF button but it automatically re-engages over 19 mph anyway. The 4WD models don't have this option though locking the center diff does turn off the VSC as it says in manual.

sequoiasoon

Most of the system is great! (I'm just not happy with the traction control) not sure if the SUBN has it or not. The AWD portion is great allowing you extra traction in all road conditions (like Subaru and Audi Quattro and the rest of the AWD minivans etc) The VSC does work well and many companies are now using it (I just tried it on a nice icy parking lot, purposely going too fast turning trying to brake and/or accelerate lots of beeps and buzz but never spun out of control)

I just am not happy with the traction control. I want full throttle when I want it!!! My cousin wrecked her ML320 and Land Rover Discovery in her driveway due to the traction control on both. (granted most people don't have a driveway 1.5 miles long with turns and and hills up to 45 degree angles, they live on top of a mountain in the Berkshires) From what she described the power just kept cutting on both until the wheels just stopped turning. Only thing the dealers and everybody could come up with was that the "extreme" conditions combined seriously confused the computers on both. She's now driving an older Toyota pick-up. They had too many reliability issues with the chevys and fords the business owned and refuse to buy any more (granted the older/regular 4WD worked great but they had other mechanical/electrical issues a lot)

wwest

The Trac on my 92 LS acts just as you describe, wheel slippage and instant brake and dethrottle, and then sometimes a few terrifying seconds before throttle control was returned.

My 00 GS300 would apply the brakes but give me a few hundred milliseconds to react and get off the gas before dethrottling.

The GS Trac being a great improvement IMMHO.

It seems strange that Toyota would go back to the earlier system. Is your Sequoia e-throttle and the ecu "thought" you were still applying throttle?

Were I you I would take it to the dealer and have them check it out.

wwest

I have seen reports right here on edmunds of Sequoias in AWD mode not being able to get themselves unstuck due to Trac activity. I have also concluded that the ABS pumpmotor has about a 45 second timeout to prevent overheating.

With no pumpmotor to replenished brake fluid pressure none of this, VSC, Trac, will work and you're stuck. I would also suspect that once the pumpmotor goes offline the engine may become dethrottled more quickly in a wheel slippage situation, and may remain there until the next restart.

sequoiasoon

by e-throttle if you mean the lack of throttle cable, sensor based set-up, yes. The ECU would be right because I was on the throttle. I did let off for a second but then tried again 2 -3 times with no response. The more I pressed the slower it went. All I ask is for a trac off switch that gives me a choice.

stakeout

we have two '01 Subn's both 4wd.. they have the normal 2wd button.. then an Auto-4WD button as well as separate 4wd Hi and 4wd Lo.. I like it that way.. it's my choice what and when I want to use it...I use mine for an escape on a trip or two or three to the OBx in the sand for surf fishing

 no separate optional traction control system on ours ..Chevy-GM calls it Stabilitrack.. not needed.. also the Autoride.. not needed.. both are good ways to add $750 + $1120 to gain nada.. ... not too much ice/snow down this way along the coast anyway.. I'll kick it in AWD if it's rainy ... both have 'posi' rears.. oops.. I'm dating myself..now called 'locking rear differential'..

2heeldrive

I have owned two Suburban 4WD's. I didn't buy a third because I wanted a 4WD vehicle that really was 4WD anytime, all the time. I use 4WD most of the time and like the way the vehicle handles. Can't do that in a Suburban. AWD... you mean AUTO 4WD... which is not the same. If you run your Suburban in 4WD in any situation other then getting unstuck, you are risking an accident (and/or damaging the drive train). I didn't understand it either until I lived with a true AWD Sequoia. I can't believe I didn't wreck my Sub while ignorantly running down snow covered roads in 4WD. Just lucky I guess.

Stabil trac... not needed... ok I would have agreed with you until I lived with such a system i.e. Toyota VSC. It is very very cool. Dry pavement, squirt around corners in town, full throttle... no problem just MOVES! Gravel road, wet road, snowy, icy, no problem... just feels like driving on dry roads. Amazing. Should be required on all vehicles... I think it is at least as important as anti-lock brakes and is essential safety equipment for all drivers esp. less experienced or savvy ones.

In my opinion, four wheel drive systems are the most mis understood part of the automotive world. There are only a very few companies who will spend the extra money and put a true, full time, mechanical center differential four wheel drive system in their vehicles. Toyota, Mercedes and Rover, for example.

A full time system is infinitely easier to use than a part time system. For the Sequoia pilot, there is really only one simple choice; do I want to use 2 or 4 wheel drive? Set and forget. On a Suburban (and other part time systems) for example, there are many more buttons to push and choices to make. Auto 4WD, 2WD, 4WD 4LOW. Indiscriminately pushing these buttons without knowing when how and why can result, best case, expensive drive train damage, or worst case, an accident.

Take a chance, take your wife and check out a Sequoia, you might be surprised. Be sure to engage 4WD.

Signed... a happy, 2.5 year long Sequoia owner.

2heeldrive

I think you just want to smoke the tires. Just put it in 4WD and floor it, you still won't be able to smoke em, but it will take off like a scalded dog.

wwest

The very instant you feel, see, or hear Trac kick in, rapid pumping of the brakes on the driven wheels, you need to release the gas pedal IMMEDIATELY.

Once the system detects the driven wheels slipping it will begin to apply the brakes, lightly somewhat. Then if you do not release the throttle it will begin to dethrottle the engine.

Supposedly the latter to prevent over-heating of the brakes.

On my 92 LS I learned that the longer I stayed on the gas in order to get the car up and going the longer it would take to recover once I got off the gas.

As I said earlier the 00 GS300 seemed to give me a few hundred milliseconds to react and get off the gas myself before beginning the dethrottling procedure.

stakeout

still say the traction control not needed...nor is the autoride super air suspension.. or the ridiculous third seat for that matter but it's a standard ripoff on the Subn.. not so much in a Subn but in anything smaller it's just an $800 seat that Ford started putting in their Expeditions in '98 to boost their profit margins.. most of them had it .. was tough to get an EB version w/o it at the time... I luckily had a '97 Expedition w/o the third silly seat..everyone followed.. all it does is eat up all the room that I bought my Subn for.. needless to say both third seats are dumped in my garage taking up fishing gear space in there..

I don't drive my so-called giant truck screeching tires and going around turns full throttle.. never have never will.. it's a truck not one of my previously owned sports cars like my '69 Vette, '75 280Z..83 RX7..or even my old '65 Goat.. been there.. done that... a truck is a truck.. ain't for jackrabbit starts or burning rubber.. for me anyway.. what they could do for the majority of the larger SUV's is develop better brakes that will actually stop the truck..

I used to live on Long Island.. 4wd hi is the way to go driving in the snow.. never heard of anyone having trouble with theirs.. drive mine on the beach at Hatteras in 4wd Hi all the time....no snow down this way along the coast near Myrtle it's the recommended way to go for the beach..

sounds like you really like your Sequoia.. I'm sure after having owned a number of Toyotas and Infinitis in the past they are a lot better quality-wise than the Chevys.. I can almost bet on that...

the last time we were at the Point at Hatteras on the beach, a brand new Sequoia was buried up to it's floorboards...stuck dead.. we all gave him the tip of the week..he kept on saying he had 4wd
(AWD).. we told him, 'yeah, air-down'..

cliffy1

I still think something is amiss with yours. There is not way to turn off the TRACS, short of using the "low-low" mode, but the throttle kill should be disabled in 4WD. Believe me, I've actually tried it. The only part of TRACS that functions in 4WD is the automatic pumping of the brake. Is it possible that this alone was responsible for slowing you down? If so, follow wwest's advice and pump the gas if it happens again. That should handle things.

wwest

Are your really sure about that?

It seems to me that one could easily get into a situation that requires almost continuous torque apportioning and/or virtual LSD(Trac??) via the brakes and I have little doubt that the brakes would quickly overheat and probably warp the rotors.

To be sure of what I'm saying I am referring to FULL-TIME AWD mode, not the part-time 4WD mode.

AND.

In part-time mode there is no non-driven wheels for Trac "reference" so it is very unlikely Trac would ever activate in that mode.

wwest

No, I said get your foot off the gas pedal immediately on realizing that Trac has activated thereby preventing the onset of automatic dethrottling.

cliffy1

Wwest, I'm still distracted by your description of the Sequoia 4WD system. You seem to still make a distinction between part time and full time systems. The Sequoia is "part time" only in that it isn't always in 4WD. Many people consider the term "part time" to mean the older, locked transfer case system similar to our pickup trucks. When in 4WD, the Sequoia is essentially an AWD or full time 4WD.

And no, I'm not 100% sure the throttle kill doesn't operate in 4WD. I am 99.9% sure and have actually tested it on icy roads, but perhaps there is more going on than I am aware of.

Perhaps the term "feathering" the gas pedal is a more appropriate way to describe a good method for controlling the throttle kill.

rpnuge

Steve - thanks for the comments. Actually, Boch Toyota called me today to follow up and see if I had any questions about my service. I was shocked. Anyway, I asked about the 5W vs 10W oil and he said the dealer only has 10W and there is just a minor difference and since it said in the manual that 10W was ok, no warranty issues to worry about.

wwest

According to the 2002 Sequoia owners manual (page 137 and beyond)the ONLY way to be truly in 4WD (part-time, locked diff'l) is in "L4" and with the transmission shifter in "L".

I can't think of any reason for a delay in going in and out of the AWD/4WD drive modes except entering or leaving 4WD part-time mode as described above.

The way most vehicles lock the center diff'l is with the use of a "dog-clutch", a splined shaft engaging with a matching sleeve. If you're trying to engage 4WD the splines must line up and then slip into engagement. That generally requires them to be rotating slowly and at approximately equal speeds. Larger, or more worn tires on one end vs the other will almost always interfere with the "match" and delay the dis/engagement.

To disengage 4WD the dog-clutch must not be under stess, no engine drive nor lagging torque factor.

In AWD (full-time 4WD) "H" or "L4" the center diff'l is NOT LOCKED and the brakes are used to apportion torque equally as/if required. My guess would be that it is in this mode that the Trac system would be most likely to dethrottle the engine if the operator is into "lively" gas application and the brakes have been in continuous use for torque apportionment. Whipping around in a snow and ice covered empty parking lot for instance.

There could, of course, be some sort of mechanical delay in engaging AWD from 2WD or vice versa. There are some CAUTION notes in the manual regarding this.

wwest

My response to question on Prius thread...

The Toyota Sequoia has an AWD system using an open diff'l and using individual wheel(s) braking to apportion engine torque. Brake apportioned toque basically operates the same way as Trac on your FWD Prius.

On the Sequoia when a wheel spins the brakes are applied, lightly, to that wheel to force torque to the wheel(s) with traction. If no wheels has enough traction to move forward and the driver attempts to spin the wheels to get unstuck the engine will be quickly dethrottled.

On the Sequoia if the above condition exists for more than 45 seconds the ABS pump/motor is automatically disabled so the driver will not persist and thereby damage the brakes, rotors, or even the driveline, worse case.

But then the Sequoia, unlike your Prius, has a backup 4WD system wherein the center diff'l is locked and Trac is disabled.

And please remember that snowchains on a FWD vehicle can quickly become extremely hazardous.

My answer would be to leave the Prius, or any FWD vehicle, at home in a nice safe garage if the roads outside are slippery.

bp3959

Does anyone know if it's possible to put a winch on the front of a sequoia?

2heeldrive

LOL! You can't be serious. Embedded microprocessor controls are everywhere... and are very, very reliable. All the problems you state with your 15 year old vehicle would cause a VSC control system to either fail diagnostics and disable itself or just stop working. It would not run amok and take over (and I'm sure that's just not possible in any scenario). Take air bags for example, pretty reliable? they have been around since 1986, are computer controlled, and would cause big trouble if they self deploy yet have a sterling reliability record. I even get a discount on my automobile insurance just for having one. I think I should get a discount for having VSC too.

Just relax and enjoy technology. Cars are a lot more interesting now than they were 15 years ago.

Just curious, what did you do with all that food you had left over from Y2K ?

;-)

2HD.

seqlady

It's right next to the 40 rolls of duct tape!

gkatz1

Rise of the machines!

pschreck

So is it Sequoianator or Stabilinator?

fanman8

It appears you must have been up late watching one of Stephen Kings horror movies just before you wrote that doom and gloom post. If anybody's son, nephew or what have you drove a Sequoia on a highway 100 miles per hour it would not be a faulty VSC or Stability Control I would be concerned with. I really don't expect my Sequoia to turn into Stephen Kings "Christine" in the near future but I'll be keeping an eye on it just in case! Thanks for the heads up though!

wwest

It's raining microprocessors!!!

There are some things going a step beyond, but in general all of these things are going to a great improvement in our lives.