A V6 in a Caprice? :sick: I think a smart fortwo gets to 60 faster than that thing would. :P Nobody buys new cars for $350 a month anymore; they lease at that price for 3 years, then someone else comes along and buys the depreciated ride for $350 @ 5 years or so.
There were some Accent hybrids running around as test vehicles a year or three ago, but the build cost was too high to hit the target price point, so they're on the back shelf for the time being. Those "poor folks" will probably be running around in depreciated Priuses ten years from now, which beats the heck out of the gas-swilling Explorers they're stuck in today.
Maybe I'm in for some sticker shock when I buy my next car, but our 2000 Sienna was $334 a month for 48 months - borrowing about $14.5K at 5%.
Well nowadays an $18,500 loan at 5% for 60 months is about $350 per month. The $20,389 I borrowed for my 2000 Intrepid would be about $385 per month at 5%.
And just factoring in inflation, $350 per month back in 1999 (when I bought my Intrepid), would be like $443 per month today.
The old rule of thunb used to be $25 per $1,000 borrowed for a 4 year loan, but I think that was 10% interest.
Anyway, with my paid off car getting 20 to 28mpg, gas would have to go up a lot more to justify taking on a new car payment. Even if I could theoretcially double my gas mileage, that wouldn't save enough to justify the payments.
I saw BMW has a prototype X5 with a diesel AND the new 2-mode hybrid trans they share with GM and Chrysler. Best of both worlds. (Seems like hybrid "fans" and diesel "fans" like to bash each other on these boards)
A gallon of gas now costs $3.10 on average, up over 75 cents from prices at this time last year.
I guess I've just gotten so used to paying around $3.00 per gallon for gas that I totally forgot that it was that cheap that recently. But now, looking back, I do remember it getting down to about $2.00-$2.25 per gallon back around October/November 2006. It didn't stay down for long, though!
over the weekend I saw a few media reports that fuel demand in USA is down from last year, so that's some evidence about what people have already done due to fuel price increases - even before we reach $4.
The Big Island of Hawaii has free mass transit bus service for the whole Island. How many places in the USA can match or beat that? We may have to give it a go in April while we are there.
As more models become available, will the price go up even further, compared to gas?
Think about it, demand will increase as more consumer vehicles have a diesel option. The price gap may stretch to balance supply and demand.
Makes sense to me. There will probably be some amount of "lag time" between more diesel engines being sold and more diesel fuel being refined and available at your local station....at least in the short term.....
ateixeira says, "Diesels are the best out on the highway. "
Like all "rules" there are exceptions.
I think that might need to be re-worded:
"On a highway which is not perfectly FLAT, Diesels are best on the highway."
Here's why I say that: My TCH consistently gets 38-42 MPG on flat highways. That's pretty darn good for a car of it's size.
My question is:
Is there a 5-passenger diesel sedan available in the USA which is comparable to the TCH in size and amenities which can do 38-42 MPG on flat highways?
The Passat is very close, and will do better on mountains or hills than the TCH. The 2007 Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec is close (rated 37 hwy) but at twice the price of the TCH.
But a flat highway? I'll put my TCH against any of the comparably-sized diesels available today in the USA.
"...diesel-electric hybrids are best on the rails! "
There, and don't some cruise ships now use that approach?
Problem always comes down to economics - adding two extra-cost systems (diesel + hybrid) will have a lot of trouble paying off over the life of the vehicle.
Yep - I'm sure it's technologically possible to build a Prius sized car that gets 60 or 70mpg or more, if you use exotic materials like carbon fiber, diesel power, etc.
Or runs on hydrogen like the Honda or GM Equinox
The challenge is getting it to market at a price the "Average Joe" can afford. (and building the infrastructure in the case of hydrogen)
My Matrix payment is about $360/mo (I think it's $358.xx to be exact) for 60 months and I didn't put anything down. I do remember the rate from the credit union being really good.
As for the earlier diatribe about pipe dreams etc, I live 5 minutes from work by car, 15 by bike, and I live alone in 600 square feet of space which is ideal for my preferences. It's so funny when people at Edmunds talk about things being "totally impossible" or "completely absurd". It isn't either, it is just outside their own range of experiences, but often is commonplace for many people.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
When I was single, a 2 bedroom apartment with a modest living room and kitchen area was just fine. When I first got married, the same space was adequate. I can't imagine trying to raise 3 kids that same amount of space. I would have a psychotic episode.
I do realize that there are people who raise an entire family in a one-room mud hut. Good for them. I went to college to not live in abject poverty. Just because someone can do it in a war-torn third-world environment does not mean that I should too. Sorry. It sucks to be poor. Always has and always will.
That is a mega mansion compared to the 100 sq foot camp room I spent half my time in up in Prudhoe Bay. About half of those 25 years I had to walk down the hall to a community shower and toilet. Now I enjoy my 3000 sq foot home. We entertain a lot and family come to visit and get away from the stifling cities they live in. I was determined to do my sacrificing while I was young. Today many kids think they have to have it all right now. So they are in debt up to their ears and a little thing like a dollar per gallon jump in gas puts them into a tizzy.
Sure sure, I hear you. I am just saying I do not consider my lifestyle a sacrifice, in fact I would consider heating and lighting a larger place than mine for a single person to be quite wasteful (not to mention a pain to clean!). And 600 sq ft is on the large side for a single person, as you said. But we are rather far afield from the topic, no?
I guess my previous remark was meant to be more in the vein of the fact that so many people are making automotive choices governed by the parameters of what is, to them, "absurd" or "completely impossible", when they have sort of forgotten what impossible or absurd situations really are. You know?
As for gas, I paid $3.39 last night, and gas is up more than $0.20 in my area in the last ten days or so.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
..typically fall in the winter due not only to the colder weather but a change in the formula of the fuel?
Yeah, I think fuel economy would tend to drop a bit with the winter blends, although I never noticed that much of a change. But I'm wondering if something else is going on with my Intrepid. When I fill up tonite, I'll see exactly what its fuel economy on this last tank was. But 15-16 just seems awfully low, even for short-trip wintertime type driving. Heck, that's about what my old '82 Cutlass Supreme would get in that type of driving! Ditto my old Malibu.
>Yeah, I think fuel economy would tend to drop a bit with the winter blends,
A cold start takes a lot of fuel. It really hurts my mileage on my car with electronic fuel mileage computer. If your roomie was driving a short distance and the car sat for a couple hours or more and then was restarted... maybe it used a lot more fuel.
My Matrix payment is about $360/mo (I think it's $358.xx to be exact) for 60 months and I didn't put anything down. I do remember the rate from the credit union being really good.
Okay, I'm 'fused. I thought you got rid of that Matrix, Nippon, when you got the Echo? Or did you recently get another Matrix?
On the way into work this morning, I noticed a guy out by the sign of the Shell station, changing the prices on the back side. The front side prices were $3.129/3.249/3.369. I think Diesel was $3.699. So they're creeping up.
I drove my Intrepid this morning, which, according to my mileage records hadn't been filled up since February 3. I had been letting my roommate borrow it. The trip odometer only showed about 240 miles, yet the gas gauge was almost empty. I have no idea what my roommate did to it to get that kind of mileage out of it! It has a 17 gallon tank, and the low fuel light usually first comes on when it still has about 4 gallons left. But as low as the needle is, I imagine it only has 1-2 gallons left, so I'm filling up on my way home from work. That would put the fuel economy at around 15-16 mpg. OUCH! Now, this has been completely very short-trip driving, like 3-5 miles at a time. And I'm sure the cold weather is having an effect. And maybe the car's just getting old. Still, I remember back when that car was new, it was hard to get under 20 mpg with it, even when I delivered pizzas with it, in the wintertime.
It has improved interior space over the model currently on sale here — especially for rear-seat passengers — with its windshield moved forward nearly 5 inches and its wheelbase extended to 98.4 inches. The new model is also slightly wider.
I wonder if they did anything to improve the front seat legroom for the Fit. That's where it came up really short, for my needs at least. It was sort of like driving an old bus or van or something, with my legs practically tucked up under me. The back seat was actually fine for me, legroom-wise. Although the curvature of the sides forced me to lean inward and duck a bit.
If they'd improve the front legroom and make it a bit more slab-sided, it would be a perfect, umm...Fit! :P
2010 is the intro year for the new "affordable" hybrid (price promised to be under $20K).
Do you know if this new hybrid supposed to be a "standalone" model - a la the Prius or Insight? Or is it an adaptation of the Fit? I like the looks of the new Fit.
andre - maybe your room-mate used an ethanol blend. I see that alot at gas stations around here - 90% gas 10% ethanol....wouldn't that reduce your MPG slightly?
A cold start takes a lot of fuel. It really hurts my mileage on my car with electronic fuel mileage computer. If your roomie was driving a short distance and the car sat for a couple hours or more and then was restarted... maybe it used a lot more fuel.
About all he was using my Intrepid for was going back and forth to work, which is about 5 miles each way. Although that gives the car longer to warm up while driving than my 3.5 mile trip to work does! I think the worst mpg I've ever gotten out of that car, since I moved so close to work, was around 17-18.
My roommate does tend to do jackrabbit starts, and wait till the last second to hit the brakes. Which isn't so hot for fuel economy or brake pad life. I just got my pickup out of the shop last Thursday, and my '79 NYer is in there now. I'm planning to send the Intrepid in next, for an oil change, general checkover, etc. Once the Trep gets back from the shop, I'll probably drive it mainly, and make my roomie drive the truck.
Gasoline prices, which for months lagged the big run-up in the price of oil, are suddenly rising quickly, with some experts fearing they could hit $4 a gallon by spring. Diesel is hitting new records daily and oil closed at an all-time high on Tuesday of $100.88 a barrel.
Regular gasoline was selling at a nationwide average of $3.14 a gallon, according to AAA, The price has jumped 19 cents a gallon in two weeks. Energy specialists predict that as demand picks up further this spring and summer, retail prices will surpass the high of $3.23 a gallon set last Memorial Day weekend.
Diesel prices rose to a record $3.60 a gallon.
The price of oil has quadrupled in six years, and Tuesday's close was not far below the inflation-adjusted all-time high set in April 1980. That record, $39.50 a barrel, equals $103.76 in today's money. .
Apparently the gas stations around here didn't get the memo to raise prices. I noticed it went down $.05 since yesterday. Regular is $2.87 today; it was $2.92 Monday and $2.97 last week.
It seems like they do the opposite of the trend, sort of like the mortgage companies when the feds recently lowered the prime and the lenders raised their interest rate, but that's another topic.
on my way to the mechanic, I stopped and filled my 2000 Intrepid up at a local Shell station. 87 octane was $3.319. The last time that car had been filled, on February 3, it had been "only" $2.879. Oh, fuel economy was slightly better than I had envisioned. Ended up going about 250 miles on that tank, and it took just under 15 gallons to fill up, so I figure 16.7 mpg total. Not as bad as the 15-16 I was fearing, but still pretty dismal.
Once I get the Trep out of the shop, I'm going to drive it and make my roommate drive my old truck. I'm gonna try to hyper-mile it, and see what kind of economy I get. Hopefully better than 16.7.
Also, the Prius tax credit is over, and the Civic Hybrid tax credit is cut in half now. So any new hybrid with a fresh tax credit will only further juice demand.
My understanding of that rule is that it's per manufacturer, so once the Civic Hybrid hits the production threshold, any new Honda hyrbrid won't have the tax credit....(but hey I could be wrong)....
...when diesel prices rise above $4 a gallon? Well, it's just about here! I was travelling north on Rte 611 near Warrington and spotted diesel at $3.97 a gallon at the Sunoco at Street Road and Rte 611! Now, if you don't think diesel prices don't affect you, think again. What runs on diesel? - Semi trucks, locomotives, heavy equipment, etc. Everthing is shipped via vehicles that run on diesel which will in turn affect the cost of those goods.
Honda hybrid is expected to be a smaller car than Civic, so perhaps the same size as the Fit, perhaps a little smaller even than that model.
Gas has shot up another 8 cents in my area just since Sunday. Regular is now going for just about $3.50, super has topped $3.70. In the space of 3 weeks, that is a 35 cent increase from around $3.15, which will be our low price for this year I imagine. Last year the run-up in prices was in early March, a full month earlier than usual. This year it is a month earlier even than it was last year. This trend sucks. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"I'm assuming it will be about the same size as the new 2009 Fit? If they actually price it under $20K, that could be my next car."
The CRZ will likely be the size of the old Insight, which was about the size of the old 1980s standard the CRX (hence the name 'CRZ').
It'll get great mpg, but will likely function only as a second "commuter" car.
They MIGHT price it under $20,000, but probably not much. Remember, the Insight cost $20 grand, and that was BEFORE gas cost $3 (or $3.50, or $4.00 ... whatever it is this week).
Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big fan of hybrids in general, and Hondas in particular. I own a HCH.
But with the price of raw materials skyrocketing, and $4 gasoline looming, I think car buyers' demand will jack up the price of any new hybrid coming out. Think "dealer premium" or "market adjustment."
Also, the Prius tax credit is over, and the Civic Hybrid tax credit is cut in half now. So any new hybrid with a fresh tax credit will only further juice demand. .
to see what kind of sales pace the hybrids maintain once the tax credits are gone. It's funny, but people hear talk of those tax credits and end up hell-bent on getting them. No matter what the ultimate overall cost is. Maybe they just feel good about getting a tax credit, like they're sticking it to the Man or something?
I remember a couple years ago, one of my roommates (the one with the heavy foot) was trying to talk me into trading my Intrepid for a Prius, because of the tax rebate. I tried to explain to him that, as few miles as we drive in a year, it just doesn't make sense to swap a paid off car that still runs well, but has very little trade-in value, for a new car that could very well cost $25K or more, simply to get better fuel economy and a $3K or whatever tax credit.
Now if the Intrepid was on its last legs, there might be some incentive there. But I'm thinking if I do get a new car, it would be something along the lines of a 4-cyl Altima. Or, when the Intrepid does finally die, just split my driving between my pickup and my New Yorker, and force my roommate to get his own danged car! :shades:
A national newspaper is looking to speak to consumers who have or are considering moving closer to work because of gasoline prices. Please respond no later than Feb. 29 with your daytime contact information to Chintan Talati at ctalati@edmunds.com.
"...see what kind of sales pace the hybrids maintain once the tax credits are gone"
Prius never missed a beat after the tax credits were gone late last summer. Prius, as you may have heard, had a record year! ;-)
Honda has specifically promised that their new small hybrid will base under $20K. Obviously, that could be manufacturer-speak for $19,995. But with an increasing diversity of hybrids in the line-up, I think the likelihood of any one of them getting huge dealer mark-ups decreases.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
There were some Accent hybrids running around as test vehicles a year or three ago, but the build cost was too high to hit the target price point, so they're on the back shelf for the time being. Those "poor folks" will probably be running around in depreciated Priuses ten years from now, which beats the heck out of the gas-swilling Explorers they're stuck in today.
CNNMoney
Well nowadays an $18,500 loan at 5% for 60 months is about $350 per month. The $20,389 I borrowed for my 2000 Intrepid would be about $385 per month at 5%.
And just factoring in inflation, $350 per month back in 1999 (when I bought my Intrepid), would be like $443 per month today.
Anyway, with my paid off car getting 20 to 28mpg, gas would have to go up a lot more to justify taking on a new car payment. Even if I could theoretcially double my gas mileage, that wouldn't save enough to justify the payments.
I guess I've just gotten so used to paying around $3.00 per gallon for gas that I totally forgot that it was that cheap that recently. But now, looking back, I do remember it getting down to about $2.00-$2.25 per gallon back around October/November 2006. It didn't stay down for long, though!
http://www.hawaii-county.com/mass_transit/heleonbus.html
Maybe I'm in for some sticker shock when I buy my next car, but our 2000 Sienna was $334 a month for 48 months - borrowing about $14.5K at 5%.
Think about it, demand will increase as more consumer vehicles have a diesel option. The price gap may stretch to balance supply and demand.
Around me I see gas for $2.94, diesel for $3.50.
If diesel goes up much more it erases a big part of the savings.
Think about it, demand will increase as more consumer vehicles have a diesel option. The price gap may stretch to balance supply and demand.
Makes sense to me. There will probably be some amount of "lag time" between more diesel engines being sold and more diesel fuel being refined and available at your local station....at least in the short term.....
Diesels are the best out on the highway.
Hybrids are the best in the city.
Diesel-electric hybrid means ideal efficiency in every situation.
Like all "rules" there are exceptions.
I think that might need to be re-worded:
"On a highway which is not perfectly FLAT, Diesels are best on the highway."
Here's why I say that: My TCH consistently gets 38-42 MPG on flat highways. That's pretty darn good for a car of it's size.
My question is:
Is there a 5-passenger diesel sedan available in the USA which is comparable to the TCH in size and amenities which can do 38-42 MPG on flat highways?
The Passat is very close, and will do better on mountains or hills than the TCH. The 2007 Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec is close (rated 37 hwy) but at twice the price of the TCH.
But a flat highway? I'll put my TCH against any of the comparably-sized diesels available today in the USA.
I'd love a diesel hybrid sedan, though !!!
The real problem is not potential highway mileage (TDI Polo is like 70 something) but rather meeting CARB emissions.
Mercedes S400, coming around 2010....but it'll cost ya
There, and don't some cruise ships now use that approach?
Problem always comes down to economics - adding two extra-cost systems (diesel + hybrid) will have a lot of trouble paying off over the life of the vehicle.
$10000 is about $200 x 60
$20000 is about $400 x 60
$30000 is about $600 x 60
From Edmunds here...link loan calculator
Yep - I'm sure it's technologically possible to build a Prius sized car that gets 60 or 70mpg or more, if you use exotic materials like carbon fiber, diesel power, etc.
Or runs on hydrogen like the Honda or GM Equinox
The challenge is getting it to market at a price the "Average Joe" can afford. (and building the infrastructure in the case of hydrogen)
As for the earlier diatribe about pipe dreams etc, I live 5 minutes from work by car, 15 by bike, and I live alone in 600 square feet of space which is ideal for my preferences. It's so funny when people at Edmunds talk about things being "totally impossible" or "completely absurd". It isn't either, it is just outside their own range of experiences, but often is commonplace for many people.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I do realize that there are people who raise an entire family in a one-room mud hut. Good for them. I went to college to not live in abject poverty. Just because someone can do it in a war-torn third-world environment does not mean that I should too. Sorry. It sucks to be poor. Always has and always will.
That is a mega mansion compared to the 100 sq foot camp room I spent half my time in up in Prudhoe Bay. About half of those 25 years I had to walk down the hall to a community shower and toilet. Now I enjoy my 3000 sq foot home. We entertain a lot and family come to visit and get away from the stifling cities they live in. I was determined to do my sacrificing while I was young. Today many kids think they have to have it all right now. So they are in debt up to their ears and a little thing like a dollar per gallon jump in gas puts them into a tizzy.
And Memorial Day is coming. Yeah, that "summer driving season" always does wonders for the price of gas.
Start making plans for $4. It'll be here before you know it.
.
I guess my previous remark was meant to be more in the vein of the fact that so many people are making automotive choices governed by the parameters of what is, to them, "absurd" or "completely impossible", when they have sort of forgotten what impossible or absurd situations really are. You know?
As for gas, I paid $3.39 last night, and gas is up more than $0.20 in my area in the last ten days or so.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yeah, I think fuel economy would tend to drop a bit with the winter blends, although I never noticed that much of a change. But I'm wondering if something else is going on with my Intrepid. When I fill up tonite, I'll see exactly what its fuel economy on this last tank was. But 15-16 just seems awfully low, even for short-trip wintertime type driving. Heck, that's about what my old '82 Cutlass Supreme would get in that type of driving! Ditto my old Malibu.
A cold start takes a lot of fuel. It really hurts my mileage on my car with electronic fuel mileage computer. If your roomie was driving a short distance and the car sat for a couple hours or more and then was restarted... maybe it used a lot more fuel.
Does he have a heavy foot?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Okay, I'm 'fused. I thought you got rid of that Matrix, Nippon, when you got the Echo? Or did you recently get another Matrix?
On the way into work this morning, I noticed a guy out by the sign of the Shell station, changing the prices on the back side. The front side prices were $3.129/3.249/3.369. I think Diesel was $3.699. So they're creeping up.
I drove my Intrepid this morning, which, according to my mileage records hadn't been filled up since February 3. I had been letting my roommate borrow it. The trip odometer only showed about 240 miles, yet the gas gauge was almost empty. I have no idea what my roommate did to it to get that kind of mileage out of it! It has a 17 gallon tank, and the low fuel light usually first comes on when it still has about 4 gallons left. But as low as the needle is, I imagine it only has 1-2 gallons left, so I'm filling up on my way home from work. That would put the fuel economy at around 15-16 mpg. OUCH! Now, this has been completely very short-trip driving, like 3-5 miles at a time. And I'm sure the cold weather is having an effect. And maybe the car's just getting old. Still, I remember back when that car was new, it was hard to get under 20 mpg with it, even when I delivered pizzas with it, in the wintertime.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshows/newyork/2008/2009hondafitpreview.htm- l
They say the new Fit should increase slightly in fuel economy, but it will still be mid-30s real world, I would guess. Too bad it's not higher.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wonder if they did anything to improve the front seat legroom for the Fit. That's where it came up really short, for my needs at least. It was sort of like driving an old bus or van or something, with my legs practically tucked up under me. The back seat was actually fine for me, legroom-wise. Although the curvature of the sides forced me to lean inward and duck a bit.
If they'd improve the front legroom and make it a bit more slab-sided, it would be a perfect, umm...Fit! :P
Do you know if this new hybrid supposed to be a "standalone" model - a la the Prius or Insight? Or is it an adaptation of the Fit? I like the looks of the new Fit.
About all he was using my Intrepid for was going back and forth to work, which is about 5 miles each way. Although that gives the car longer to warm up while driving than my 3.5 mile trip to work does! I think the worst mpg I've ever gotten out of that car, since I moved so close to work, was around 17-18.
My roommate does tend to do jackrabbit starts, and wait till the last second to hit the brakes. Which isn't so hot for fuel economy or brake pad life. I just got my pickup out of the shop last Thursday, and my '79 NYer is in there now. I'm planning to send the Intrepid in next, for an oil change, general checkover, etc. Once the Trep gets back from the shop, I'll probably drive it mainly, and make my roomie drive the truck.
It is supposed to be a standalone model, yes.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Gasoline prices, which for months lagged the big run-up in the price of oil, are suddenly rising quickly, with some experts fearing they could hit $4 a gallon by spring. Diesel is hitting new records daily and oil closed at an all-time high on Tuesday of $100.88 a barrel.
Regular gasoline was selling at a nationwide average of $3.14 a gallon, according to AAA, The price has jumped 19 cents a gallon in two weeks. Energy specialists predict that as demand picks up further this spring and summer, retail prices will surpass the high of $3.23 a gallon set last Memorial Day weekend.
Diesel prices rose to a record $3.60 a gallon.
The price of oil has quadrupled in six years, and Tuesday's close was not far below the inflation-adjusted all-time high set in April 1980. That record, $39.50 a barrel, equals $103.76 in today's money.
.
It seems like they do the opposite of the trend, sort of like the mortgage companies when the feds recently lowered the prime and the lenders raised their interest rate, but that's another topic.
Once I get the Trep out of the shop, I'm going to drive it and make my roommate drive my old truck. I'm gonna try to hyper-mile it, and see what kind of economy I get. Hopefully better than 16.7.
My understanding of that rule is that it's per manufacturer, so once the Civic Hybrid hits the production threshold, any new Honda hyrbrid won't have the tax credit....(but hey I could be wrong)....
It is supposed to be a standalone model, yes.
I'm assuming it will be about the same size as the new 2009 Fit? If they actually price it under $20K, that could be my next car.
Gas has shot up another 8 cents in my area just since Sunday. Regular is now going for just about $3.50, super has topped $3.70. In the space of 3 weeks, that is a 35 cent increase from around $3.15, which will be our low price for this year I imagine. Last year the run-up in prices was in early March, a full month earlier than usual. This year it is a month earlier even than it was last year. This trend sucks. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The CRZ will likely be the size of the old Insight, which was about the size of the old 1980s standard the CRX (hence the name 'CRZ').
It'll get great mpg, but will likely function only as a second "commuter" car.
They MIGHT price it under $20,000, but probably not much. Remember, the Insight cost $20 grand, and that was BEFORE gas cost $3 (or $3.50, or $4.00 ... whatever it is this week).
Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big fan of hybrids in general, and Hondas in particular. I own a HCH.
But with the price of raw materials skyrocketing, and $4 gasoline looming, I think car buyers' demand will jack up the price of any new hybrid coming out. Think "dealer premium" or "market adjustment."
Also, the Prius tax credit is over, and the Civic Hybrid tax credit is cut in half now. So any new hybrid with a fresh tax credit will only further juice demand.
.
I remember a couple years ago, one of my roommates (the one with the heavy foot) was trying to talk me into trading my Intrepid for a Prius, because of the tax rebate. I tried to explain to him that, as few miles as we drive in a year, it just doesn't make sense to swap a paid off car that still runs well, but has very little trade-in value, for a new car that could very well cost $25K or more, simply to get better fuel economy and a $3K or whatever tax credit.
Now if the Intrepid was on its last legs, there might be some incentive there. But I'm thinking if I do get a new car, it would be something along the lines of a 4-cyl Altima. Or, when the Intrepid does finally die, just split my driving between my pickup and my New Yorker, and force my roommate to get his own danged car! :shades:
Prius never missed a beat after the tax credits were gone late last summer. Prius, as you may have heard, had a record year! ;-)
Honda has specifically promised that their new small hybrid will base under $20K. Obviously, that could be manufacturer-speak for $19,995. But with an increasing diversity of hybrids in the line-up, I think the likelihood of any one of them getting huge dealer mark-ups decreases.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)