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There is no such thing as a cheap "luxury car".
Genesis V6 starts at 30K on up to 36K with options. V8 starts at 35K and on up to 42K with options.
I'm sorry but If Hyundai sets these prices the Genesis will fail... Just my humble opinion. Doctors, Lawyers, Executives are not the target buyers for this car, or shouldn't be, at least not off the bat. These professionals are too status driven and they are your typical Audi, BMW, Mercedes buyers.
I think if hyundai is sucessful in 2-3 yrs they might be able to get those prices, not off the bat, they are not proven producers in the luxury sports sedan market. It will be interesting to see what happens. I personally interested in the genesis, but honestly not over the low 30K price range, and wouldn't at all be interested in a stripped down version either.
I don't think their target market are Audi, BMW and Benz drivers. I think their market will be Dodge Charger, Chevrolet Impala and Volkswagen Passat drivers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
300C, maybe, but I doubt the Korean suits will spend marketing moolah on an alternative to a police car.
If you can find one of those new @~$30k, you'd better grab it..and all are smaller...3 Series starting @ $35k,Caddy @ $31k, M35 @ $43k,Jag S @ $49k,ES 350 @ $35k,MKZ @ $32k,Benz C Class@ $32k, Volvo S80 @ $40k..these are all base prices for the low end models..add on $5-$7k in options.....Check your dealers and they will not have any base models....Big $$ in the add-ons..
Most of those brands have their entry level cars at around $30K.
Up until the 2008 model year caddies came in at under $30K. BMW's start at around $32K, Jag $34K, Benz just over $31K Volvo has 4 models under $30K (3 starting under 25K) and lexus has 2 models under $31K. So first timers for those brands will be paying about what a Genesis will go for.
and all are smaller.
Just my point, these cars are smaller and appeal more to those who want the badge. OTOH those who will be getting a Genesis won't be so concerned about badges. Those are the ones who would also be looking at stuff like the Impala and the Charger.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
- Infiniti's entry model is the G35, not M35. The G35 starts around $32K
- Jaguar's entry model is the X-type, not S-type.
- Lexus' entry model is the IS250, not ES350. The IS250 starts around $32K
- Volvo's entry model is the S40 (which will be dropped with the S60 taking over that slot), not S80.
Most luxury entry models start around low $30K and top out around low $40K. A loaded Lexus' IS350 can be around very high $40K and the 3-series, as well as the C-class all top out at low/mid $50K range.
I think the Genesis will be very competitive if Hyundai price it at low $30K and tops out (loaded with V8 and navi) at mid $40K. It'll be even better if it comes with a different badge but so far I don't see that happening.
Let the status seekers have their "badges". Hyundai must seek out those such as myself looking to be in the market for a $25K to $35 decent car, which this appears to be if Hyundai lives up to its initial promise of an "under $30,000 V6".
For me, this car becomes the "perfect car" if they add a Lane Departure Warning System. From what I have read, there are many single chip options out there to combine many features economically such as Lane Departure Warning with Adaptive Cruise Control and other computer based options.
If Genesis goes for the market I describe, (think today's American economy with interest rates due to drop to possibly 3% in 3 to 6 months) the opportunity to grab a large middle income market share is enormous.
What do you think would be a good sales target for Genesis? Something they can consistently reach and say the car is a success with a straight face?
The Azera is good for 25k a year, and the +$30k leaders sell 70-80k.
Does it need to outsell the Azera? :confuse:
DrFill
I am going to stand by my previous prediction, the Genesis sales number will be:
(Santa Fe #) / (Azera #) x (Veracruz #)
It could still be below $30K, like $29,555 I predicted. :P
They are really asking: We think we can buy your respect if we make expensive cars, and really don't want to wait to earn it.
Can we pull a VW, and just start building cars too expensive for us to sell? Please? Pretty Please? With sugar on top?
DrFill
It takes money and time to make more money. Apparently the Japanese understands this but Koreans don't.
When someone else's works so much better? :P
DrFill
G35 is RWD, Maxima is FWD.
IS250 is RWD, Camry is FWD.
X-type is AWD and sure, call it a Ford since it's based on Ford Mondeo's platform. I'll take the Ford Mondeo over anything Ford has to offer here anyway.
In your previous post you've said that all the models you've listed are "low end model". Which is NOT TRUE so I posted the correction.
Also, the 3-series, C-class and ES350 are all midsize or compact so either way you were wrong. Don't know what is a CST but if by that you meant the CTS then you are wrong again. CTS will be a main competitor to Genesis due to the similar strategy, which is to offer a 5-series kind of car at a 3-series kind of price. It'll be great if you can get the fact straight or do some study before coming here accusing other people that they are wrong.
By the way, do you know what'll be the biggest difference between Azera and Genesis?
They're in a difficult position because the Elantra and Sonata are bread-and-butter cars for them, and they can't take the brand upmarket and eliminate them from their lineup without alienating their customer base.
I agree with everything that you said.
Well, maybe Hyundai will be "the one" that breaks the curse and actually have success with a luxury car in a mainstream brand.
We'll just have to wait and see.
I'm very expensive.
Hyundai has a lot of raw talent. They have just become unfocused, and are picking fights they can't win.
Some need to learn things the hard way.
DrFill
I think you're saying THEY might want to read their own ads and "Think about it.".
I like your style!
If you don't read your own ads, who will?
DrFill
Let me guess on your last question....could it be the RWD or maybe the V-8 power...or maybe even the price??
PS..Your opening statement is really inappropriate and rather immature...
louiswei's post 789: Infiniti's entry model is the G35, not M35. Jaguar's entry model is the X-type, not S-type. Lexus' entry model is the IS250, not ES350. Volvo's entry model is the S40 (which will be dropped with the S60 taking over that slot), not S80.
101649's post 798: We're comparing larger sedans here...G 35, S type, IS 250, S 40, and CST are all mid or compacts.....There are less optioned larger sedans that are considered entry level..here's the breakdown on compacts...G 35 is a Maxima, IS 250 is a Camry and X type is a Ford.....
louiswei's post 799: In your previous post you've said that all the models you've listed are "low end model". Which is NOT TRUE so I posted the correction.
101649's post 805: I don't believe that I've seen a Lexus lower priced than the 250, an Infiniti lower priced than the G, and a Caddy cheaper than the CTS, so in my book that makes these cars the "low end models."
louiswei's final reply on this topic: Thank you for supporting my argument which proves that you were wrong with the original post.
This is the first I've heard such an early release date promised for the Genesis, but the sooner it gets here the better, in my opinion. This car, if it's as good as they are promising, has the potential to shake the auto world like the first LS400 did almost 2 decades ago.
Not without a seperate dealer network, which is what Toyota/Nissan did when LS400 & Q45 hit the market. If Hyundai goes with their existing dealer network to launch Genesis they will stub their toe big time. If the dealers they have now still fumble around with Azera how can they possibly relate to a rwd "premium"?
DrFill
The reason why the LS400 is such a "hit" almost 20 years ago not only because it compares well to the S-class for almost half the price but also due to the introduction of the Lexus brand. Looking back of Lexus' short 18-year history I can say that the LS400 wouldn't be "it" with a Toyota badge.
Hyundai has to decide if they want short-term or long-term success. Toyota has made a right choice 18 years ago, now it's Hyundai's term.
The Chrysler 300 is a one-in-a-million success story, and most are bought below $30k. The design is what sells that car.
People aren't buying the Genesis based on it's design. They want to sell it as a great car, which it may be.
Are people going to run to Hyundai dealership to get a great $35k car? :sick:
IF, and this is a big IF, IF Hyundai wanted to do this properly, they'd.....
Forget it......I don't have time to teach them right now.
All I can say is IT COULD WORK, but they'd have to be INCREDIBLY well-thought out, and their advertising would have to be so sweet, a la Lexus 1989.
In essense, they'd have to have learned something intangible. I just don't think they're ready yet (So says Yoda). They'e behavior has proven that.
I gotta go. See ya!
DrFill
All the collective brain trust at Hyundai must realize that no matter whether they spend $150.00 or 150 million that a Hyundai in the minds of the average buyer means "an affordable, well built car". Thats all the currency it has.
Now if they are really serious about upselling in the premium market they had better create a separate new brand and dealer network for these cars. Thinking they can push their premium cars under the current Hyundai brand is not sustainable.
They grossly underestimate the American consumer and the rules of market branding if they believe they can successfully move significant numbers of their soon to be released Genesis models under their current "value" brand.
The best argument for Hyundai to create a separate dealer network is their current struggles to hit 550,000 unit Sales. Currently, sales in the U.S. have pretty much hit a wall at 455,520 unit sales as they have tried to gain market share.
More signs of their struggles is the apparent revolving door at Hyundai North America's corporate with the recent exit of their COO, Steve Wilhite, who failed to deliver the numbers that Hyundai unrealistically set for the U.S. market. He among other departed executives are among the casualties of this foolish ill fated bullrush to challenge the entrenched Asian market market leaders.
In my opinion, Hyundai is pressing too hard too fast to catch the two major players, Toyota and Honda. While I would like to see them succeed with the BH and Tiburon, their focus should more on doubling the sales of their Elantra, Sonata and Santa Fe models.
However, Without a premium brand, Hyundai's drive to build even greater market share in the U.S. will be hindered and could stall.
Well written carbunt. However, you included Honda, and excluded Nissan. Honda still is not there with any (rwd-v8) upscale sedan above the Accord to include the Acura RS.
20 years ago when the big V8 rwd LS & Q's were launched, Toy/Niss did so with seperate single brand dealer networks. Hyundai can't pull that off in todays economic climate. The factory subsidy required to even try boggles the mind.
Genesis is doomed before the first shipload even reaches the Port of Long Beach. I can't visualize anyone walking past a row of Elantra/Sonata's and a couple of Azera's to see any version of Genesis, period.
I don't even think most Americans are giving them that. They are pretty much in the same boat as the domestics. They maybe making better cars, but their reputation preceeds them. And it will take time to earn enough respect to start selling $30-40k cars.
DrFill
It worked for Toyota with Lexus, Nissan with Infiniti and Honda with Acura. If they build the right car it can also work for Hyundai. The "RIGHT CAR" is the important issue.
Buyers will not pay 35 to 40K for a sub par model and Hyundai will not have entered the Luxury level.
Not adding enough of the luxury "gadgets" has hurt Azera sales, and by what I have read about the 08 features, or lack of them, will continue to hurt future sales. By the 3rd. year of production, they should have added more than XM radio and optional navigation
VWing this thing ain't gonna git it! :sick:
The LS 400 not only had to be virtually the best luxury car, from Day One, which it was, but it also had the best marketing plan, and the best new dealership network (albeit small).
It had game, a gameplan, and a company backing it up.
Hyundai needs to let this bake properly. They still have plenty of work to do.
DrFill
Sadly, the unique design of the concept version has seemingly been changed for the production version to the drab "same-old" generic design features we have all seen before. Although styling hasn't fully been revealed, what HAS been revealed appears to be nothing special at all. Thus far, I see no "wow" factor at all in the design.
I guess it's really no surprise since Hyundai is known for conservatism with design in past models. The Azera (which I drive) is a rather plain generic design as are all of the other sedans in the line-up. However, when I saw the drawing of the Genesis Concept, I had hope that things might change. Alas, it appears not. Too bad.
As far as function is concerned, it appears the features and technology for the Genesis will be pretty generic fare for a basic luxury car. Nothing has been revealed thus far that would cause much excitement. The most promising aspect of the vehicle is probably the new V8 engine (hopefully more efficient than the v6 engine currently in the Azera). But even that is not something that will separate it from the other cars it's supposedly competing with.
As of now (fall, 2007) I see the Genesis as a conservative and fairly generic basic luxury car and, unfortunately, that will not be enough to lift it above the cars in its class that have had many years of refinement and proven track records.
I am anxiously waiting to see and hear more about the Genesis and hope there are some surprises yet to be revealed that will turn heads and raise eyebrows. I still have the Genesis on my short list of cars to consider as an upgrade to my Azera some time in 2008.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0707_hyundai_genesis
check out the start button, I hope they keep it exactly like that, with the label-maker label and all :-)
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/july2007/3-genesis.jpg
Notice the lack of adjusting knob behind the gear shift selector on some pictures.
Still don't know what final configuration for production car will look like.
Few posters on Edmunds.com own a Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota simultaneously, but our family is one, and objectively, the Hyundai takes a back seat to no one as "an affordable, well- built car" - with emphasis placed on well-built.
Honda and Toyota proponents are analogous to Apple owners - they feel that no other quality computer (or, car in this scenario) exists. Such is not the case.
That being said, regardless how good the Genesis is, or will be, it will have tough sledding if sold at a Hyundai-specific store. Marketing, and more importantly image, is paramount in the USA, as VW found out with the Phaeton. In this country, successful marketers target Americans' ego, not their conservatism or intelligence.
Other pictures of the steering wheel have tape covering the center of the wheel so that no emblem is shown.
Engines will be a 3.8L 300 HP Lambda v6 with Direct Injection. The v8 will be a 4.6L 380 HP Tau v8 with Direct Injection and Cylinder Deactivation.
I believe, based on insider info, the departures of Finbarr O'Neill, John Krafcik and the recent departure of Steve Wilhite has a great deal to do with Hyundai Korea's stubbornness to do things 'their way' apart from knowledge of their execs in America. One of the decisions Hyundai is stubbornly holding to is their refusal to launch a new brand for the Genesis and other recently launched concepts which will be coming to market (Velostar, Portico, Tahoe Size SUV, etc.).
Stubborness rarely produces greatness.
Mr. Bush, you can put your hand down! :P
DrFill