In my opinion, if someone wants a luxury car, they want some luxury features, not a stipped down model. There is no such thing as a cheap "luxury car".
Genesis V6 starts at 30K on up to 36K with options. V8 starts at 35K and on up to 42K with options.
I'm sorry but If Hyundai sets these prices the Genesis will fail... Just my humble opinion. Doctors, Lawyers, Executives are not the target buyers for this car, or shouldn't be, at least not off the bat. These professionals are too status driven and they are your typical Audi, BMW, Mercedes buyers. I think if hyundai is sucessful in 2-3 yrs they might be able to get those prices, not off the bat, they are not proven producers in the luxury sports sedan market. It will be interesting to see what happens. I personally interested in the genesis, but honestly not over the low 30K price range, and wouldn't at all be interested in a stripped down version either.
These professionals are too status driven and they are your typical Audi, BMW, Mercedes buyers.
I don't think their target market are Audi, BMW and Benz drivers. I think their market will be Dodge Charger, Chevrolet Impala and Volkswagen Passat drivers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
IMO the targets are entry level BMW,Audi, Lexus, Infiniti,Acura,Benz, and Cadillac "newcomers"...maybe even entry level Jags.....1st timers who don't want to go $60k or higher for the package...
I really don't think thats the case simply because all those brands have entry level cars in the $30K range. I really think those who would more likely spend their $30K+ on something with some RWD power like a Charger will look at the Genesis as an alternative.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hmm, so something like a Pontiac G8 without the ugly air dams? Sounds good, but something tells me the Genesis will ride softer than the G8 and Charger. Time will tell.
If you can find one of those new @~$30k, you'd better grab it..and all are smaller...3 Series starting @ $35k,Caddy @ $31k, M35 @ $43k,Jag S @ $49k,ES 350 @ $35k,MKZ @ $32k,Benz C Class@ $32k, Volvo S80 @ $40k..these are all base prices for the low end models..add on $5-$7k in options.....Check your dealers and they will not have any base models....Big $$ in the add-ons..
Most of those brands have their entry level cars at around $30K.
Up until the 2008 model year caddies came in at under $30K. BMW's start at around $32K, Jag $34K, Benz just over $31K Volvo has 4 models under $30K (3 starting under 25K) and lexus has 2 models under $31K. So first timers for those brands will be paying about what a Genesis will go for.
and all are smaller.
Just my point, these cars are smaller and appeal more to those who want the badge. OTOH those who will be getting a Genesis won't be so concerned about badges. Those are the ones who would also be looking at stuff like the Impala and the Charger.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
- Infiniti's entry model is the G35, not M35. The G35 starts around $32K
- Jaguar's entry model is the X-type, not S-type.
- Lexus' entry model is the IS250, not ES350. The IS250 starts around $32K
- Volvo's entry model is the S40 (which will be dropped with the S60 taking over that slot), not S80.
Most luxury entry models start around low $30K and top out around low $40K. A loaded Lexus' IS350 can be around very high $40K and the 3-series, as well as the C-class all top out at low/mid $50K range.
I think the Genesis will be very competitive if Hyundai price it at low $30K and tops out (loaded with V8 and navi) at mid $40K. It'll be even better if it comes with a different badge but so far I don't see that happening.
The Genesis will succeed if the marketing does not become exceedingly ambitious.
Let the status seekers have their "badges". Hyundai must seek out those such as myself looking to be in the market for a $25K to $35 decent car, which this appears to be if Hyundai lives up to its initial promise of an "under $30,000 V6".
For me, this car becomes the "perfect car" if they add a Lane Departure Warning System. From what I have read, there are many single chip options out there to combine many features economically such as Lane Departure Warning with Adaptive Cruise Control and other computer based options.
If Genesis goes for the market I describe, (think today's American economy with interest rates due to drop to possibly 3% in 3 to 6 months) the opportunity to grab a large middle income market share is enormous.
Yes they did. But if you go back to this post and follow the rest of the thread you'll see that the "well below $30K" promise is most likely not going to happen.
It could still be below $30K, like $29,555 I predicted. :P
I think they're saying the Genesis is the first in many ill-fated attempts to push the Hyundai brand into a economy/luxury marque mutation. You have to read between the lines.
They are really asking: We think we can buy your respect if we make expensive cars, and really don't want to wait to earn it.
Can we pull a VW, and just start building cars too expensive for us to sell? Please? Pretty Please? With sugar on top?
We're comparing larger sedans here...G 35, S type, IS 250, S 40, and CST are all mid or compacts.....There are less optioned larger sedans that are considered entry level..here's the breakdown on compacts...G 35 is a Maxima, IS 250 is a Camry and X type is a Ford.....
G35 is RWD, Maxima is FWD. IS250 is RWD, Camry is FWD. X-type is AWD and sure, call it a Ford since it's based on Ford Mondeo's platform. I'll take the Ford Mondeo over anything Ford has to offer here anyway.
In your previous post you've said that all the models you've listed are "low end model". Which is NOT TRUE so I posted the correction.
Also, the 3-series, C-class and ES350 are all midsize or compact so either way you were wrong. Don't know what is a CST but if by that you meant the CTS then you are wrong again. CTS will be a main competitor to Genesis due to the similar strategy, which is to offer a 5-series kind of car at a 3-series kind of price. It'll be great if you can get the fact straight or do some study before coming here accusing other people that they are wrong.
By the way, do you know what'll be the biggest difference between Azera and Genesis?
I see a lot of overlap between Hyundai and Kia right now. If they are trying to take the Hyundai brand upmarket, I'm not sure their current "think about it" campaign will do the trick--the message seems to be that their products provide class-leading safety features and quality. This might help put them in parity with Honda and Toyota, but it's not going to put them in Lexus territory.
They're in a difficult position because the Elantra and Sonata are bread-and-butter cars for them, and they can't take the brand upmarket and eliminate them from their lineup without alienating their customer base.
I don't believe that I've seen a Lexus lower priced than the 250, an Infiniti lower priced than the G, and a Caddy cheaper than the CTS, so in my book that makes these cars the "low end models." The Boxster is the less expensive of all the Porsche models...that makes it the low end, but no slouch...Debadge the Lexus and the Infiniti and park them next to their Toyota and Nissan cousins and 7 out of ten people wouldn't be able to tell the difference..The S Type is in it's last year and the X Type is in dire need of a makeover...very dated designs .BTW, no one is "accusing other people that they were wrong." Let me guess on your last question....could it be the RWD or maybe the V-8 power...or maybe even the price??
PS..Your opening statement is really inappropriate and rather immature...
101649's post 787: Series starting $35k,Caddy $31k, M35 $43k,Jag S $49k,ES 350 $35k,MKZ $32k,Benz C Class $32k, Volvo S80 $40k..these are all base prices for the low end models
louiswei's post 789: Infiniti's entry model is the G35, not M35. Jaguar's entry model is the X-type, not S-type. Lexus' entry model is the IS250, not ES350. Volvo's entry model is the S40 (which will be dropped with the S60 taking over that slot), not S80.
101649's post 798: We're comparing larger sedans here...G 35, S type, IS 250, S 40, and CST are all mid or compacts.....There are less optioned larger sedans that are considered entry level..here's the breakdown on compacts...G 35 is a Maxima, IS 250 is a Camry and X type is a Ford.....
louiswei's post 799: In your previous post you've said that all the models you've listed are "low end model". Which is NOT TRUE so I posted the correction.
101649's post 805: I don't believe that I've seen a Lexus lower priced than the 250, an Infiniti lower priced than the G, and a Caddy cheaper than the CTS, so in my book that makes these cars the "low end models."
louiswei's final reply on this topic: Thank you for supporting my argument which proves that you were wrong with the original post.
Allow me to be the first to mention that the Genesis roll out date may now be as early as April 2008. According to the Chosunilbo news in Korea, Hyundai is launching a $150 million ad campaign in the U.S. aimed at "upgrading the carmaker's image in the U.S. and hopefully stimulating sales of the premium Genesis sedan, due to roll out in April."
This is the first I've heard such an early release date promised for the Genesis, but the sooner it gets here the better, in my opinion. This car, if it's as good as they are promising, has the potential to shake the auto world like the first LS400 did almost 2 decades ago.
This car, if it's as good as they are promising, has the potential to shake the auto world like the first LS400 did almost 2 decades ago
Not without a seperate dealer network, which is what Toyota/Nissan did when LS400 & Q45 hit the market. If Hyundai goes with their existing dealer network to launch Genesis they will stub their toe big time. If the dealers they have now still fumble around with Azera how can they possibly relate to a rwd "premium"?
With a separate luxury dealer network, the Genesis will be in the mix with the 5-series, E-class, GS and M. Without it'll be compared to the such like Chrysler 300 or even possibly the new RWD Impala.
The reason why the LS400 is such a "hit" almost 20 years ago not only because it compares well to the S-class for almost half the price but also due to the introduction of the Lexus brand. Looking back of Lexus' short 18-year history I can say that the LS400 wouldn't be "it" with a Toyota badge.
Hyundai has to decide if they want short-term or long-term success. Toyota has made a right choice 18 years ago, now it's Hyundai's term.
With a separate luxury dealer network, the Genesis will be in the mix with the 5-series, E-class, GS and M. Without it'll be compared to the such like Chrysler 300 or even possibly the new RWD Impala.
The Chrysler 300 is a one-in-a-million success story, and most are bought below $30k. The design is what sells that car.
People aren't buying the Genesis based on it's design. They want to sell it as a great car, which it may be.
Are people going to run to Hyundai dealership to get a great $35k car? :sick:
IF, and this is a big IF, IF Hyundai wanted to do this properly, they'd.....
Forget it......I don't have time to teach them right now.
All I can say is IT COULD WORK, but they'd have to be INCREDIBLY well-thought out, and their advertising would have to be so sweet, a la Lexus 1989.
In essense, they'd have to have learned something intangible. I just don't think they're ready yet (So says Yoda). They'e behavior has proven that.
While I am anxiously anticipating the launch of the new BH (or whatever it will be called) I am also still very skeptical that Hyundai badges on either the BH or new Tib will have the desired effect of lifting the brand further up the market ladder and increase market share.
All the collective brain trust at Hyundai must realize that no matter whether they spend $150.00 or 150 million that a Hyundai in the minds of the average buyer means "an affordable, well built car". Thats all the currency it has.
Now if they are really serious about upselling in the premium market they had better create a separate new brand and dealer network for these cars. Thinking they can push their premium cars under the current Hyundai brand is not sustainable.
They grossly underestimate the American consumer and the rules of market branding if they believe they can successfully move significant numbers of their soon to be released Genesis models under their current "value" brand.
The best argument for Hyundai to create a separate dealer network is their current struggles to hit 550,000 unit Sales. Currently, sales in the U.S. have pretty much hit a wall at 455,520 unit sales as they have tried to gain market share.
More signs of their struggles is the apparent revolving door at Hyundai North America's corporate with the recent exit of their COO, Steve Wilhite, who failed to deliver the numbers that Hyundai unrealistically set for the U.S. market. He among other departed executives are among the casualties of this foolish ill fated bullrush to challenge the entrenched Asian market market leaders.
In my opinion, Hyundai is pressing too hard too fast to catch the two major players, Toyota and Honda. While I would like to see them succeed with the BH and Tiburon, their focus should more on doubling the sales of their Elantra, Sonata and Santa Fe models.
However, Without a premium brand, Hyundai's drive to build even greater market share in the U.S. will be hindered and could stall.
Well written carbunt. However, you included Honda, and excluded Nissan. Honda still is not there with any (rwd-v8) upscale sedan above the Accord to include the Acura RS.
20 years ago when the big V8 rwd LS & Q's were launched, Toy/Niss did so with seperate single brand dealer networks. Hyundai can't pull that off in todays economic climate. The factory subsidy required to even try boggles the mind.
Genesis is doomed before the first shipload even reaches the Port of Long Beach. I can't visualize anyone walking past a row of Elantra/Sonata's and a couple of Azera's to see any version of Genesis, period.
All the collective brain trust at Hyundai must realize that no matter whether they spend $150.00 or 150 million that a Hyundai in the minds of the average buyer means "an affordable, well built car". Thats all the currency it has.
I don't even think most Americans are giving them that. They are pretty much in the same boat as the domestics. They maybe making better cars, but their reputation preceeds them. And it will take time to earn enough respect to start selling $30-40k cars.
I don't see the new Genesis succeeding if the high end model is priced any where above 35K.... even that is stretching it. Face it hyundai has no track record in the high end sport sedan market...respect and trust in quality has to be gained. I just don't see many willing to pay over 35K for this car. Hyundai's goal should be to offer this car at an affordable price for the middle income person. They need to keep cost of this car down, first and foremost, even if the don't fill it with every possible gadget available.
RE: 815 It worked for Toyota with Lexus, Nissan with Infiniti and Honda with Acura. If they build the right car it can also work for Hyundai. The "RIGHT CAR" is the important issue. Buyers will not pay 35 to 40K for a sub par model and Hyundai will not have entered the Luxury level. Not adding enough of the luxury "gadgets" has hurt Azera sales, and by what I have read about the 08 features, or lack of them, will continue to hurt future sales. By the 3rd. year of production, they should have added more than XM radio and optional navigation
You left out the marking a new marque, setting a new standard part.
VWing this thing ain't gonna git it! :sick:
The LS 400 not only had to be virtually the best luxury car, from Day One, which it was, but it also had the best marketing plan, and the best new dealership network (albeit small).
It had game, a gameplan, and a company backing it up.
Hyundai needs to let this bake properly. They still have plenty of work to do.
Although I'm very interested in the Genesis, it will need to have "wow" factor in order to succeed. It has an uphill battle because of name association and it will have to be "cutting-edge" in design and function.
Sadly, the unique design of the concept version has seemingly been changed for the production version to the drab "same-old" generic design features we have all seen before. Although styling hasn't fully been revealed, what HAS been revealed appears to be nothing special at all. Thus far, I see no "wow" factor at all in the design.
I guess it's really no surprise since Hyundai is known for conservatism with design in past models. The Azera (which I drive) is a rather plain generic design as are all of the other sedans in the line-up. However, when I saw the drawing of the Genesis Concept, I had hope that things might change. Alas, it appears not. Too bad.
As far as function is concerned, it appears the features and technology for the Genesis will be pretty generic fare for a basic luxury car. Nothing has been revealed thus far that would cause much excitement. The most promising aspect of the vehicle is probably the new V8 engine (hopefully more efficient than the v6 engine currently in the Azera). But even that is not something that will separate it from the other cars it's supposedly competing with.
As of now (fall, 2007) I see the Genesis as a conservative and fairly generic basic luxury car and, unfortunately, that will not be enough to lift it above the cars in its class that have had many years of refinement and proven track records.
I am anxiously waiting to see and hear more about the Genesis and hope there are some surprises yet to be revealed that will turn heads and raise eyebrows. I still have the Genesis on my short list of cars to consider as an upgrade to my Azera some time in 2008.
RE: 819 Notice the lack of adjusting knob behind the gear shift selector on some pictures. Still don't know what final configuration for production car will look like.
As one who is certainly in the minority here - our cars include a current generation Camry, a previous generation Accord, and a previous generation "lowly" Elantra - guess which one of these has been the more trouble-free and reliable car?? The Elantra . . . Rather than having to justify the purchase of anything else, I really need to justify in my own mind the purchase of our 2007 Camry. The purchase was based upon my excellent experiences with Toyota products beginning with my 1968 Corona; however, this purchase was a big mistake on my part.
Few posters on Edmunds.com own a Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota simultaneously, but our family is one, and objectively, the Hyundai takes a back seat to no one as "an affordable, well- built car" - with emphasis placed on well-built.
Honda and Toyota proponents are analogous to Apple owners - they feel that no other quality computer (or, car in this scenario) exists. Such is not the case.
That being said, regardless how good the Genesis is, or will be, it will have tough sledding if sold at a Hyundai-specific store. Marketing, and more importantly image, is paramount in the USA, as VW found out with the Phaeton. In this country, successful marketers target Americans' ego, not their conservatism or intelligence.
Could have had some Korean parts bin stuff. The V emblem is the Korean version emblem. Means the Equus brand in Korea or a custom emblem. The US version will get a hyundai emblem. Some Korean spy pics indicate another possibly exclusive KDM grille design. Those pics I last posted in my flickr are Korean spec vehicles. The Navigation system will be like Audi's MMI system. There should be nice toys too. The US version will get an MMI like version of the current LG navigation system. On Korean and maybe US non navi models get a LCD info screen. So I believe the white steering wheel indicated it was an older mule. Newer ones don't get that one. That was found in the first spy pics. This design was frozen a couple of times.
Engines will be a 3.8L 300 HP Lambda v6 with Direct Injection. The v8 will be a 4.6L 380 HP Tau v8 with Direct Injection and Cylinder Deactivation.
In the Road and track magazine for the New cars of 2008 they list the Genesis as having the 263HP Azera engine and then a 310 V-8 even though I thought they were gonna put a 350 V-8 in it. They say the V-6 version is about $29,000 and 33,000 for the V-8 version. They say bunch of things will be standard but I don't know what. They talk about heated/cooled seats, adaptive cruise control, navigation with rear back of camera, all things I'm not sure if the base model would get standard. If they did that would be one way to set them apart by giving people more features for their money. Since it usually costs thousands extra to get the leather like on the BMW's and the heated/cooled seats cost extra.
Hyundai officials in Korea has no intention of developing another brand to market the Genesis line. This could reportedly cost over $1 Billion. I believe, based on insider info, the departures of Finbarr O'Neill, John Krafcik and the recent departure of Steve Wilhite has a great deal to do with Hyundai Korea's stubbornness to do things 'their way' apart from knowledge of their execs in America. One of the decisions Hyundai is stubbornly holding to is their refusal to launch a new brand for the Genesis and other recently launched concepts which will be coming to market (Velostar, Portico, Tahoe Size SUV, etc.).
Comments
There is no such thing as a cheap "luxury car".
Genesis V6 starts at 30K on up to 36K with options. V8 starts at 35K and on up to 42K with options.
I'm sorry but If Hyundai sets these prices the Genesis will fail... Just my humble opinion. Doctors, Lawyers, Executives are not the target buyers for this car, or shouldn't be, at least not off the bat. These professionals are too status driven and they are your typical Audi, BMW, Mercedes buyers.
I think if hyundai is sucessful in 2-3 yrs they might be able to get those prices, not off the bat, they are not proven producers in the luxury sports sedan market. It will be interesting to see what happens. I personally interested in the genesis, but honestly not over the low 30K price range, and wouldn't at all be interested in a stripped down version either.
I don't think their target market are Audi, BMW and Benz drivers. I think their market will be Dodge Charger, Chevrolet Impala and Volkswagen Passat drivers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
300C, maybe, but I doubt the Korean suits will spend marketing moolah on an alternative to a police car.
If you can find one of those new @~$30k, you'd better grab it..and all are smaller...3 Series starting @ $35k,Caddy @ $31k, M35 @ $43k,Jag S @ $49k,ES 350 @ $35k,MKZ @ $32k,Benz C Class@ $32k, Volvo S80 @ $40k..these are all base prices for the low end models..add on $5-$7k in options.....Check your dealers and they will not have any base models....Big $$ in the add-ons..
Most of those brands have their entry level cars at around $30K.
Up until the 2008 model year caddies came in at under $30K. BMW's start at around $32K, Jag $34K, Benz just over $31K Volvo has 4 models under $30K (3 starting under 25K) and lexus has 2 models under $31K. So first timers for those brands will be paying about what a Genesis will go for.
and all are smaller.
Just my point, these cars are smaller and appeal more to those who want the badge. OTOH those who will be getting a Genesis won't be so concerned about badges. Those are the ones who would also be looking at stuff like the Impala and the Charger.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
- Infiniti's entry model is the G35, not M35. The G35 starts around $32K
- Jaguar's entry model is the X-type, not S-type.
- Lexus' entry model is the IS250, not ES350. The IS250 starts around $32K
- Volvo's entry model is the S40 (which will be dropped with the S60 taking over that slot), not S80.
Most luxury entry models start around low $30K and top out around low $40K. A loaded Lexus' IS350 can be around very high $40K and the 3-series, as well as the C-class all top out at low/mid $50K range.
I think the Genesis will be very competitive if Hyundai price it at low $30K and tops out (loaded with V8 and navi) at mid $40K. It'll be even better if it comes with a different badge but so far I don't see that happening.
Let the status seekers have their "badges". Hyundai must seek out those such as myself looking to be in the market for a $25K to $35 decent car, which this appears to be if Hyundai lives up to its initial promise of an "under $30,000 V6".
For me, this car becomes the "perfect car" if they add a Lane Departure Warning System. From what I have read, there are many single chip options out there to combine many features economically such as Lane Departure Warning with Adaptive Cruise Control and other computer based options.
If Genesis goes for the market I describe, (think today's American economy with interest rates due to drop to possibly 3% in 3 to 6 months) the opportunity to grab a large middle income market share is enormous.
What do you think would be a good sales target for Genesis? Something they can consistently reach and say the car is a success with a straight face?
The Azera is good for 25k a year, and the +$30k leaders sell 70-80k.
Does it need to outsell the Azera? :confuse:
DrFill
I am going to stand by my previous prediction, the Genesis sales number will be:
(Santa Fe #) / (Azera #) x (Veracruz #)
It could still be below $30K, like $29,555 I predicted. :P
They are really asking: We think we can buy your respect if we make expensive cars, and really don't want to wait to earn it.
Can we pull a VW, and just start building cars too expensive for us to sell? Please? Pretty Please? With sugar on top?
DrFill
It takes money and time to make more money. Apparently the Japanese understands this but Koreans don't.
When someone else's works so much better? :P
DrFill
G35 is RWD, Maxima is FWD.
IS250 is RWD, Camry is FWD.
X-type is AWD and sure, call it a Ford since it's based on Ford Mondeo's platform. I'll take the Ford Mondeo over anything Ford has to offer here anyway.
In your previous post you've said that all the models you've listed are "low end model". Which is NOT TRUE so I posted the correction.
Also, the 3-series, C-class and ES350 are all midsize or compact so either way you were wrong. Don't know what is a CST but if by that you meant the CTS then you are wrong again. CTS will be a main competitor to Genesis due to the similar strategy, which is to offer a 5-series kind of car at a 3-series kind of price. It'll be great if you can get the fact straight or do some study before coming here accusing other people that they are wrong.
By the way, do you know what'll be the biggest difference between Azera and Genesis?
They're in a difficult position because the Elantra and Sonata are bread-and-butter cars for them, and they can't take the brand upmarket and eliminate them from their lineup without alienating their customer base.
I agree with everything that you said.
Well, maybe Hyundai will be "the one" that breaks the curse and actually have success with a luxury car in a mainstream brand.
We'll just have to wait and see.
I'm very expensive.
Hyundai has a lot of raw talent. They have just become unfocused, and are picking fights they can't win.
Some need to learn things the hard way.
DrFill
I think you're saying THEY might want to read their own ads and "Think about it.".
I like your style!
If you don't read your own ads, who will?
DrFill
Let me guess on your last question....could it be the RWD or maybe the V-8 power...or maybe even the price??
PS..Your opening statement is really inappropriate and rather immature...
louiswei's post 789: Infiniti's entry model is the G35, not M35. Jaguar's entry model is the X-type, not S-type. Lexus' entry model is the IS250, not ES350. Volvo's entry model is the S40 (which will be dropped with the S60 taking over that slot), not S80.
101649's post 798: We're comparing larger sedans here...G 35, S type, IS 250, S 40, and CST are all mid or compacts.....There are less optioned larger sedans that are considered entry level..here's the breakdown on compacts...G 35 is a Maxima, IS 250 is a Camry and X type is a Ford.....
louiswei's post 799: In your previous post you've said that all the models you've listed are "low end model". Which is NOT TRUE so I posted the correction.
101649's post 805: I don't believe that I've seen a Lexus lower priced than the 250, an Infiniti lower priced than the G, and a Caddy cheaper than the CTS, so in my book that makes these cars the "low end models."
louiswei's final reply on this topic: Thank you for supporting my argument which proves that you were wrong with the original post.
This is the first I've heard such an early release date promised for the Genesis, but the sooner it gets here the better, in my opinion. This car, if it's as good as they are promising, has the potential to shake the auto world like the first LS400 did almost 2 decades ago.
Not without a seperate dealer network, which is what Toyota/Nissan did when LS400 & Q45 hit the market. If Hyundai goes with their existing dealer network to launch Genesis they will stub their toe big time. If the dealers they have now still fumble around with Azera how can they possibly relate to a rwd "premium"?
DrFill
The reason why the LS400 is such a "hit" almost 20 years ago not only because it compares well to the S-class for almost half the price but also due to the introduction of the Lexus brand. Looking back of Lexus' short 18-year history I can say that the LS400 wouldn't be "it" with a Toyota badge.
Hyundai has to decide if they want short-term or long-term success. Toyota has made a right choice 18 years ago, now it's Hyundai's term.
The Chrysler 300 is a one-in-a-million success story, and most are bought below $30k. The design is what sells that car.
People aren't buying the Genesis based on it's design. They want to sell it as a great car, which it may be.
Are people going to run to Hyundai dealership to get a great $35k car? :sick:
IF, and this is a big IF, IF Hyundai wanted to do this properly, they'd.....
Forget it......I don't have time to teach them right now.
All I can say is IT COULD WORK, but they'd have to be INCREDIBLY well-thought out, and their advertising would have to be so sweet, a la Lexus 1989.
In essense, they'd have to have learned something intangible. I just don't think they're ready yet (So says Yoda). They'e behavior has proven that.
I gotta go. See ya!
DrFill
All the collective brain trust at Hyundai must realize that no matter whether they spend $150.00 or 150 million that a Hyundai in the minds of the average buyer means "an affordable, well built car". Thats all the currency it has.
Now if they are really serious about upselling in the premium market they had better create a separate new brand and dealer network for these cars. Thinking they can push their premium cars under the current Hyundai brand is not sustainable.
They grossly underestimate the American consumer and the rules of market branding if they believe they can successfully move significant numbers of their soon to be released Genesis models under their current "value" brand.
The best argument for Hyundai to create a separate dealer network is their current struggles to hit 550,000 unit Sales. Currently, sales in the U.S. have pretty much hit a wall at 455,520 unit sales as they have tried to gain market share.
More signs of their struggles is the apparent revolving door at Hyundai North America's corporate with the recent exit of their COO, Steve Wilhite, who failed to deliver the numbers that Hyundai unrealistically set for the U.S. market. He among other departed executives are among the casualties of this foolish ill fated bullrush to challenge the entrenched Asian market market leaders.
In my opinion, Hyundai is pressing too hard too fast to catch the two major players, Toyota and Honda. While I would like to see them succeed with the BH and Tiburon, their focus should more on doubling the sales of their Elantra, Sonata and Santa Fe models.
However, Without a premium brand, Hyundai's drive to build even greater market share in the U.S. will be hindered and could stall.
Well written carbunt. However, you included Honda, and excluded Nissan. Honda still is not there with any (rwd-v8) upscale sedan above the Accord to include the Acura RS.
20 years ago when the big V8 rwd LS & Q's were launched, Toy/Niss did so with seperate single brand dealer networks. Hyundai can't pull that off in todays economic climate. The factory subsidy required to even try boggles the mind.
Genesis is doomed before the first shipload even reaches the Port of Long Beach. I can't visualize anyone walking past a row of Elantra/Sonata's and a couple of Azera's to see any version of Genesis, period.
I don't even think most Americans are giving them that. They are pretty much in the same boat as the domestics. They maybe making better cars, but their reputation preceeds them. And it will take time to earn enough respect to start selling $30-40k cars.
DrFill
It worked for Toyota with Lexus, Nissan with Infiniti and Honda with Acura. If they build the right car it can also work for Hyundai. The "RIGHT CAR" is the important issue.
Buyers will not pay 35 to 40K for a sub par model and Hyundai will not have entered the Luxury level.
Not adding enough of the luxury "gadgets" has hurt Azera sales, and by what I have read about the 08 features, or lack of them, will continue to hurt future sales. By the 3rd. year of production, they should have added more than XM radio and optional navigation
VWing this thing ain't gonna git it! :sick:
The LS 400 not only had to be virtually the best luxury car, from Day One, which it was, but it also had the best marketing plan, and the best new dealership network (albeit small).
It had game, a gameplan, and a company backing it up.
Hyundai needs to let this bake properly. They still have plenty of work to do.
DrFill
Sadly, the unique design of the concept version has seemingly been changed for the production version to the drab "same-old" generic design features we have all seen before. Although styling hasn't fully been revealed, what HAS been revealed appears to be nothing special at all. Thus far, I see no "wow" factor at all in the design.
I guess it's really no surprise since Hyundai is known for conservatism with design in past models. The Azera (which I drive) is a rather plain generic design as are all of the other sedans in the line-up. However, when I saw the drawing of the Genesis Concept, I had hope that things might change. Alas, it appears not. Too bad.
As far as function is concerned, it appears the features and technology for the Genesis will be pretty generic fare for a basic luxury car. Nothing has been revealed thus far that would cause much excitement. The most promising aspect of the vehicle is probably the new V8 engine (hopefully more efficient than the v6 engine currently in the Azera). But even that is not something that will separate it from the other cars it's supposedly competing with.
As of now (fall, 2007) I see the Genesis as a conservative and fairly generic basic luxury car and, unfortunately, that will not be enough to lift it above the cars in its class that have had many years of refinement and proven track records.
I am anxiously waiting to see and hear more about the Genesis and hope there are some surprises yet to be revealed that will turn heads and raise eyebrows. I still have the Genesis on my short list of cars to consider as an upgrade to my Azera some time in 2008.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0707_hyundai_genesis
check out the start button, I hope they keep it exactly like that, with the label-maker label and all :-)
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/july2007/3-genesis.jpg
Notice the lack of adjusting knob behind the gear shift selector on some pictures.
Still don't know what final configuration for production car will look like.
Few posters on Edmunds.com own a Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota simultaneously, but our family is one, and objectively, the Hyundai takes a back seat to no one as "an affordable, well- built car" - with emphasis placed on well-built.
Honda and Toyota proponents are analogous to Apple owners - they feel that no other quality computer (or, car in this scenario) exists. Such is not the case.
That being said, regardless how good the Genesis is, or will be, it will have tough sledding if sold at a Hyundai-specific store. Marketing, and more importantly image, is paramount in the USA, as VW found out with the Phaeton. In this country, successful marketers target Americans' ego, not their conservatism or intelligence.
Other pictures of the steering wheel have tape covering the center of the wheel so that no emblem is shown.
Engines will be a 3.8L 300 HP Lambda v6 with Direct Injection. The v8 will be a 4.6L 380 HP Tau v8 with Direct Injection and Cylinder Deactivation.
I believe, based on insider info, the departures of Finbarr O'Neill, John Krafcik and the recent departure of Steve Wilhite has a great deal to do with Hyundai Korea's stubbornness to do things 'their way' apart from knowledge of their execs in America. One of the decisions Hyundai is stubbornly holding to is their refusal to launch a new brand for the Genesis and other recently launched concepts which will be coming to market (Velostar, Portico, Tahoe Size SUV, etc.).
Stubborness rarely produces greatness.
Mr. Bush, you can put your hand down! :P
DrFill