Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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Comments

  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 621: I wouldn't call maxed out Limited Santa Fe's, Veracruz and Azera's "inexpensive" in the just below, at or just over $30K range prior to negotiating. Lexus and Infinity prove everyday consumers demand 300 plus HP / RWD well above 35+k. Bottom line, Genesis will sell, but it will be a tough sell at the existing Hyundai dealer network.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Bottom line, Genesis will sell, but it will be a tough sell at the existing Hyundai dealer network.

    Of course the Genesis will sell with the current dealer network. But if it can sell better with a new and upscale dealer network I don't see any reason why shouldn't Hyundai invest in it. This new dealer network might not be profitable in the early stage for Hyundai but I believe in the long run, it'll be beneficial.

    Lexus and Infinity prove everyday consumers demand 300 plus HP / RWD well above 35+k

    Lexus and Infiniti prove that everyday consumers demand 300+ HP/RWD well above 35K WITH A LUXURY BRAND EMBLEM ATTACHED TO IT. Do you see any RWD with 300HP and 35+K MSRP in Toyota and Nissan's lineup?
  • gamlegedgamleged Member Posts: 442
    "Very few of the features available on the Korean version are offered here in the US market..."

    Or the (as I recall) Dubai market. A poster from there mentioned that their Azeras come with a nav system, and that system includes a button to show them where Mecca is located! :surprise:

    Hopefully, the Genesis will have been more closely attuned to the US purchaser before sales here begin...
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE:627
    Right!
    Those manufacturers made the investment to get into the luxury segment of the market. If they had determined that it could be executed in their prior brands, they would not have made the enormous outlay of cash required to market these "high end" products.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Somewhere between Chrysler/Dodge hemi sedans and high dollar Lexus/Infinity/5-Series BMW "Luxury Emblems" will be the consumer price point slot Hyundai targets. The warranty will be an important pull-through. This kiss of death will be the dealers with their grab & grin selling approach.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Somewhere between Chrysler/Dodge hemi sedans and high dollar Lexus/Infinity/5-Series BMW "Luxury Emblems"

    OMG, I hope Hyundai isn't aiming for that demography for the Genesis. If that's the case they'll be luck if they can sell more than 10K of these every year.
  • drdonrsdrdonrs Member Posts: 164
    RE:622
    I will agree with you, in part. I will admit that the ambiance of my dealership may not be up to the level of the Acura dealership where I have purchased 7 Acuras over the years. That being said I came in for my first Hyundai (06 Sonata LX V6) being well equipped from a knowledge-wise point of view as regards features and price. I dealt with the sales manager and received excellent and fair treatment. I subsequently bought my second car (06 Azera Limited) and my son just bought an 07 Santa Fe. Bottom line I treated the staff with respect, recognized that the dealer's are in business to make a profit and in my case I know it was fair. Any businessman will tell you that in order to stay in business you must make some sort of profit. I expected fair treatment and received it. The service manager is conscientious and customer oriented and I have a good rapport with all. I have recommended this dealership and will continue to do so.
    Yes the showroom is cramped, not opulent, and has a less than luxurious appearance. So what! Be nice and you get treated nicely. Be knowledgeable, and don't try to be a "wiseguy" and in most cases you will get fair treatment in return. In every business there are bad apples but when you find a "good one" the results can be most satisfying. in my "many years" of buying and leasing ( I am a real senior citizen) my Hyundai dealership, Hyundai of Westchester in Yonkers, NY ranks up there with the best, and I have no financial interest only happy to be a satisfied customer and recommend others to see how nice the purchasing of a car can be.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re613: "OMG, I hope Hyundai isn't aiming for that demography for the Genesis. If that's the case they'll be luck if they can sell more than 10K of these every year."

    Then, what's your suggestion? Open a proprietary dealer network selling one sedan?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Open a proprietary dealer network selling one sedan?

    Well, definitely not. My suggestion is:

    Hyundai should debut a luxury brand that's independent to Hyundai dealerships with an opening-day lineup :P consisting:

    A large size RWD luxury sedan with standard V6 and optional V8 engines - Genesis.
    A medium size luxury CUV - Move the Veracruz from Hyundai, load it up and insert it here.
    A RWD performance-base coupe with luxurious touches - The coupe can be based on a shortened Genesis chassis.

    Most likely the coupe will need more time to develop but looks like the Genesis and upscale Veracruz is ready to go. Hyundai can start the new luxury brand off with the sedan and CUV and have the coupe coming online a year later. If both Acura and Lexus can start off with 2 models I don't see why can't Hyundai pull the same trick off.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 634 "If both Acura and Lexus can start off with 2 models I don't see why can't Hyundai pull the same trick off."

    I agree they could start with a "Premium" version of the Veracruz and the 2 grades of Genesis with a coupe following. Hyundai certainly has the bucks to subsidize an independent dealer network But...where do they find and establish such a network for upscale products and the support elements of service to make it work? By & large the existing Hyundai dealers are a disgrace, even to the Hyundai brand name let alone similiar new dealers of the same ilk selling a new luxury brand.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE:634
    If Hyundai intends to introduce the Genesis in 08, they certainly don't have the time to establish a seperate dealership network.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Wait until you are ready to go upmarket.

    They aren't ready to move up. Say they are, but obviously are not. :(

    You can only do this once. You better do it right. I don't see any signs of them going down the right path. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 637 "I don't see any signs of them going down the right path."

    Strange how some of us can see this but they can't. Speaking of the "right path", now they have the negative press of one of their Korean executive fleeing the US after a DUI resulting in a fatality in So CA. :blush:
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    While I agree with you Hyundai has to do it right initially, but what gives the automaker can't do it right in the first place?

    FWIW, Hyundai is taking the right apporach by improving its fleet, brands, and everything else in between and around. When the time is right, it will attack the luxury brand angle. The question is not if, it is when...
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I think it was a former exec.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 640 Yes, former...but still very much in the local news out here
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    can't we just leave and forget that one? I didn't mention forgiving him, I just said forget it. :surprise:

    drdonrs...I appreciated your comments for many reasons regarding dealing with dealers' salespeople. It's true, if one of us goes in to the dealer yapping it up about how much we know about a particular rig or two we're interested in and don't even really listen when our salesman is talking, nor show him/her any respect whatsoever, are we really giving them a fair chance? Sure, they should know more about the car but if they don't, does that mean Hyundai's are crap, or Kia's are crap? I say it doesn't mean that and really shouldn't even imply that. Learn all you want and test drive and negotiate. What a particular salesperson knows about your favorite rig really need not be involved in your negotiations. If you correct them and they keep forgetting, well, then, yes that can be irritating. That much is true.

    I don't think Hyundai is going to differentiate and make a 'Genesis' separate dealer location/business. I see them selling these RWD cars right off their Hyundai lot. And sell many of them they most certainly will. My admiration for both Kia and Hyundai grows with each passing month.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    If you check the Hyudai website, it seems that they have made the decision to market the Genesis at Hyundai dealerships.
    The Genesis site is done very well, with a full 360 view of the exterior and full mention of the toys.
    They do not show or mention the cars interior.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I see Sonata, Altima, and 5-series in the design, all cars I like. It's a good looking car, but no Chrysler 300.

    It would be best to market it as a sporty alternative to Totota Avalon/Buick Lucerne.

    If you did that, you could get 30-40k a year. If everything broke right.

    I'd expect about the same number sold as Azera. Azera would lose some buyers to it, but some wouldn't move up over $30k. And you didn't do something stupid like market against Lexus. :lemon:

    DrFill
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Is there anything anybody would like to see changed on the Genesis before the production model rolls out in the second half of 2008?
  • docrwdocrw Member Posts: 94
    Honestly, without knowing exactly what the interior will look like, my first suggestion would be to offer AWD as an option. Here in the Northeast, I do not enjoy driving RWD cars in the snow, I actually think the VDC, ESC or whatever acronym they are using gets in the way more than it helps. I also live on an unpaved road near the top of the hill, so AWD is a must for me.

    Honestly, the 300, STS, GS350, M35, 5-series, E-series, and, of couse, the A6 all have AWD as an option. In fact, I am hard pressed to think of a car with more than 300hp that does not offer AWD as an option other than Jaguar and the 7-series. I think it will be hard to compete in this segment without offering AWD as an option.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Living in northern Utah, AWD would be very welcome. I would like that option as well. I have never had a AWD but have found myself wishing I had one on several occasions. Between the FWD and the RWD, however, I would take a RWD just for the feel and handling even though it will probably do worse in snowy conditions.

    Since Hyundai already makes AWD vehicles, it shouldn't be that hard to implement in the Genesis.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Do they have a F-R setup for AWD though? They have a F-F AWD system in the crossover SUVs. In their framed SUVs (Sorento and one not imported to USDM) they have AWD/4WD but that has a traditional transfer case.

    I'm sure they could come up with one though, or purchase one from another company.

    -mike
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    My bet is on there will be no AWD option for Genesis if Hyundai kept the promise that the base V6 will start "under" $30K. Even at around $31K - $32K it will be too costly for them to derive the Genesis platform for AWD capability.

    This is basically a 5-series plus equivalent car at a sub 3-series price, something's got to give here. Even Hyundai can't perform miracles.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Or perhaps the other companies are just milking people on a grand scale?

    -mike
  • ssangyong_carsssangyong_cars Member Posts: 14
    The Concept Genesis will not compete with the Lexus LS
    it will compete with Mercedes-Benz E Class, BMW 5,
    and Lexus GS
    Also i readed that Hyundai will redesign the Hyundai Santa Fe to compete with Mercedes-Benz M Class, and redesign the Hyundai Azera in 2009 to compete with Lexus LS, BMW 7, and Mercedes-Benz S Class
  • ssangyong_carsssangyong_cars Member Posts: 14
    Also i forgot to about the redesigned Hyundai Tucson, it will compete with BMW X3 and soon to come Mercedes-Benz MLX
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    And where, may I ask, have you read this?

    So, you're saying that in two years, the redesigned Azera will be at a higher level than the Genesis and would, obviously, be priced higher at, maybe $45-50K? Hmm. . . I need time to process that one.
  • etcarrolletcarroll Member Posts: 87
    "Hyundai Azera in 2009 to compete with Lexus LS, BMW 7, and Mercedes-Benz S Class"

    That doesn't make any sense at all.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Member Posts: 234
    "Also i readed that Hyundai will redesign the Hyundai Santa Fe to compete with Mercedes-Benz M Class, and
    redesign the Hyundai Azera in 2009 to compete with Lexus LS, BMW 7, and Mercedes-Benz S Class."


    Time will tell as it always does, but I for one don't believe a word of it. Where did you readed that bad information?

    :)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Well, basically he was saying...

    In couple years, Hyundai will be competing with the luxury brands such as MB, BMW and Lexus.

    :surprise:
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    FYI - the Santa Fe was only recently redesigned (a great redesign in that regard), and the Azera (and the Santa Fe) may (should) get a facelift 09 (not that it needs one) but the redesign will follow its regular cycle. I am not sure what to say about the competitions you posted but perhaps you could post a link, certainly the home market is the only plausible answer per your post.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    If I understand what "ssangyong cars" was saying . . . The 2008 Azera will compete with a Toyota Avalon and cost, oh, $28,000 and the 2009 Azera will compete with a Lexus LS and cost, oh, $50,000. That's quite a change.

    So, what's next. . . the Hyundai Tiburon in 2009 will compete with a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    So, what's next. . . the Hyundai Tiburon in 2009 will compete with a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti?

    Nah...just the BMW 650i.

    :P
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    Hyundai must be installing brain altering chemicals in the ventilation system of their cars to get owners to believe that these are the best cars on the market at any price.
    Reminds me of my early 60's college day's ventures to Greenwich Village.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    Hope you all enjoyed the New Motor Trend comparison test of the Veracruz versus the Lexus RX350. Care to guess which one Motor Trend picked as the winner???
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Member Posts: 234
    Speaking of, which issue of Motor Trend contains the article?

    I will wager that M T gave the nod to Hyundai. How much did I win?

    Someone at the magazine messed up big time and added 'Apt 1' to my street address and some stupid
    P O employee sent an issue back as 'undeliverable' and I have missed the last three issues.
    The most recent issue I've received was the one for April.

    It's so hard to get good people these days! :cry:

    :)
  • drdonrsdrdonrs Member Posts: 164
    I love my Azera and Sonata LX however when someone posts fiction it amuses me no end. I have no doubt that in time Hyundai will compete as an equal, almost there in some instances. However folks please let's keep the information posted here, on the up and up. I too am awaiting a source, which I personally don't think exists. :confuse:
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    I just got mine Friday. Basically, it says the $10,000 difference in price is not really worth it for the small differences that were in favor of the Lexus. I think the ability to have 3rd row seat, and that the handling on the Hyundai was actually better (MT felt the electronic nannies on the Lexus let the Hyundai win) and the fact that it runs on regular gas were big items.

    No doubt the Lexus was the more high end vehicle, but not enough to justify the difference in price. I suspect this is where Hyundai is going with the Genesis. It may not be quite the egual of the 5 Series or similar cars, but it will be darn close and $10,000+ less. Sort of like the Azera and the Avalon. The Avalon is a great car, but the Azera is sooo close and thousands less in dollars (and runs on regluar - yes, I know the Avalon will run on regular, but that's not what Toyata recommends apparently).
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    $10K different is not worth it to MT but apparently is to the many RX owners. To each of his/her own...
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    RX will continue to outsell Veracruz but product for product, Veracruz is truly equal or better (tested back-to-back) than the RX. And for $11K less, it's a no-brainier. That said, all things being equal, most Americans would prefer the RX because:

    Reputation
    Badge
    Loyalty
    Brand Equity

    Above will take time to build for Hyundai (and the new luxury brand), especially since the Veracruz is brand new and few know about the fantastic vehicle.

    Interesting to note, 73% would purchase the Veracruz with the emblems/badges covered, while 52% would purchase when they find out it was Hyundai.

    Conclusion, it has nothing to do with the product (image and perception seem the more pressing issue) which obviously since Hyundai has caught up to Toyota and the likes, even Lexus!!

    This bodes well for Hyundai's perception. And check out the title to the press release, someone seems to be missing the party :)

    http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=27
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    obviously since Hyundai has caught up to Toyota and the likes, even Lexus!!

    I wouldn't make the conclusion basing on this one comparo. Remember, the Veracruz is all new in 07' and the RX (and Highlander) is on its way out. The new Highlander will debut this fall with RX possibly coming next year as an 09'.

    Basically what I am saying is...YES, you are right, Hyundai has caught up to [the five year old] Toyota and Lexus. But with the new entries from Toyota/Lexus coming soon, hold the cigars...
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Agreed. I just re-read what I posted...what I meant to say, Hyundai can now be compared favorably against Toyota with its portfolio.

    I am looking forward to see what the next RX will be like. I am getting an 08 Highlander test vehicle in a few months so I will have a firsthand experience. I am not liking too much on the styling but we will see if improvements are made from the areas which lacked on the (soon-to-be) outgoing Highlander. The one critical part on the Highlander from the general public so far seems to be justifying the price difference with the RAV4. (is it worth paying the premium?) Let's see how the range will be priced.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Member Posts: 234
    "Interesting to note, 73% would purchase the Veracruz with the emblems/badges
    covered, while 52% would purchase when they find out it was Hyundai."


    Of interest to some may be the upcoming test of the Veracruz to be
    published by Consumers Reports for the next, the August issue.

    Will the Veracruz come out on top of their ratings? :confuse:

    :)
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Let's compare Rav4 vs X3, Mazda3 vs C-Class, and Pacifica vs R-Class. :confuse:

    I guess MT had some extra space to fill.

    DrFill
  • scbobscbob Member Posts: 167
    While they favored the Hyundai, MT is not that good at reviewing cars for reliability or cost. However, as owner of a 2007 Azera Limited, Hyundai is better than Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. I took six months of test drives and research to prove that to myself.
    However, Hyundai better do something about gas mileage, the ride and name before they come out with the Genesis. They really need to do a better marketing job, e.g. new "division," rather than just another Hyundai.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Hyundai is better than Lexus, Infiniti or Acura.

    I am curious. In what category you meant Hyundai is better than Lexus, Infiniti and Acura?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Great post!

    If you drive everything, and like the car, and buy it, that's all that matters. Buyers buy what they want, and sometimes it is what they need. That's just the way it is.

    Not that I don't think you're crazy for cross-shopping Hyundai vs. true luxury cars, because I do. You might be an Army of One on that. But I respect your diligence.

    And you somewhat contradicted yourself, getting a Hyundai as a luxury car, but lamenting them not making a luxury channel, then you buy a psuedo-luxury car, from a non-luxury channel. You may be your own demographic. :blush:

    You definitely see the downside, which is potentially severe, with Hyundai's approach, or lack thereof. ;)

    DrFill
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