I believe Hyundai buyers are ready for a $30K+ vehicle, the demographic of the Azera buyers proves this point.
Unless the actual transaction price of the Azera is over $30K I don't see it proves any point.
Many Azera buyers I ran into brag about they got the Limited trim for around $26K. That's a HUGE discount from its over $30K MSRP. Luxury cars don't sell this way...
With products like Genesis and Veracruz, Hyundai is ready.
Wow, everyone who works at Hyundai should just leave work now b/c drfill is predicting a failure years before the car even debuts in the showroom. All hail Toyota.
There is a forum on this so I won't dwell on it too much but sources are saying this could have either the I4 Turbo pushing 230hp, or the second genearation of Lambda V6 expected around 300 horses, or the Tau V8 (Hyundai has 4.6L 5.0 and 5.5L, including supercharged). I would think two of the three (I4, V6, V8) would make it at launch.
Hi everyone, I read the Korean news in English online everday, and i happen to come across this article about the Hyundai Genesis. It suggests that Hyundai will come out with a new brand name for its luxury line, but i wouldn't allow this article to be the official news from Hyundai..
The price is not fixed but will likely range between W45 million and W60 million (US$1=W925).
Huh...If somebody didn't misplace a decimal or more than likely didn't lose a digit; this says everyone on this thread was all wet and therefore, blows everyone here out of the water as far as having a Genesis in their driveway. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If somebody didn't misplace a decimal or more than likely didn't lose a digit; this says everyone on this thread was all wet and therefore, blows everyone here out of the water as far as having a Genesis in their driveway.
Could be a misprint or typo. Or it just could be someones speculation or that Hyundai is pricing it differently in different markets. Not to mention its not an official Hyundai statement.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The article is from Chosonilbo which is one of most unreliable newspapers in Korea. There is no conformation from Hyudai about creating luxury division. IMHO, Hyudai should make a luxury brand in future.
A top of the line Azera (in Korea it's Grandeur) is around W40 million in Korea and that translates to US$43K. A top of the line Azera Limited has an MSRP of $31K here in the US. That's 72% of the price in Korea. With that in mind...
W45 million = US$49K W60 million = US$65K
72% of that are $35K and $47K, respectively.
Looks like the US-bound Genesis will start at mid-low $30K and top out around mid $40K. This pricing makes sense to me. Pretty much Hyundai is charging 3-series kind of price for a 5-series plus kind of car. Still a great value.
Top of the line Sonata goes for W35 million and top of the line Tiburon (in Korea it's called Tuscani) for W26 million in Korea. Convert to US dollar that's $38K and $28K, respectively.
The MSRP of a top of the line Sonata is $26.5K and a top of the line Tiburon is $23.5K. Compare to the Korean version, that's 70% and 83% of the prices, respectively. If Hyundai is following the current pricing strategy one can safely to assume that the US Genesis will cost somewhere between 70% to 80% of the price of the Korean version.
I know a lot of y'all have great expectation that the Genesis will start "well below" $30K so I am sure posts like this won't be well received :P . However, I am not here to play "Debbie Downer", just merely stating the facts.
"I had a chance to drive the final stage Genesis prototype yesterday.
And to the poster who asked how we could know for sure that this coupe is a Hyundai... I can tell you it is a Hyundai vehicle because I saw the coupe with my own eyes while I was there. More on this at the bottom.
Without revealing corporate secrets, I can tell you that the Genesis is simply stunning. I am not able to tell you what kind of options or powertrains it will come with because it is still being finalized (and I value my job), but it certainly won't lack in the power department or luxury features.
The drive... wow. I was smiling ear to ear after the test drive, and I drove a base model test mule. If I didn't know any better, I would have asked if it were a Mercedes Benz S-class or a Lexus LS. I mean, it was just incredible. I could not believe that a car like this would be offered in the 30k-40k range. I thought I was excited about the G8, but I can tell you that when the time comes, I will be at the Hyundai dealership, not Pontiac.
Unfortunately, the front and rear fascia design were still under development and thus heavily camouflaged. I wasn't allowed to take pictures, anyway.
Bottom line is that Hyundai has built a real contender in the luxury rwd market and V8 is definitely being considered for the U.S. market from what I was told. As much as I love my TL, I may be replacing her next year.
I am still in shock and awe of how stunning the Genesis was as I type this. If you guys are getting your hopes up for the Genesis, then I can confidently say that you will not be disappointed.
Now onto the coupe... I was not able to get a close look because it was being driven away and it was very heavily camouflaged. But I could still make out the overall shape of it and it was BEAUTIFUL. I'm talking Aston Martin DB9 greenhouse meets Ferrari 599 Fiorano roof line. You may think that I am exaggerating, but I can tell you that very few cars strike me as beautifully sculpted. But Hyundai got the lines on this (at least the parts I could see) very nicely. Solid and hard, yet soft and flowing lines. We are on a very subjective topic, yes, but it definitely gave me a chubby looking at it.
Oh and we hit 130 in an Azera on a 40-degree bank high speed test track. That was frigging fun. I was on the inside and it felt like I could just reach out the window and touch the pavement. It feels like you are sitting vertical to the ground and the g-forces pulling you toward the outside. Screw road racing, I'm going NASCAR. "
I can't wait to see it and drive it! When I buy this car (and I will) I'll make sure I buy as far away as possible so I can enjoy it to death driving it back home!
Once again, it'll be the fastest sell they make with me!
I've had my Azera for almost a year now and have +30,000KM on my car and am still deeply in love with it! BEST car I've ever owned! My 3 previous cars were Camry's. My AZERA is so comfortable, quiet, fun, spacious to drive and can't believe the comments I get from it. If the GENESIS is the SLIGHTEST bit better than the AZERA, then OMG I'm going to die and go to heaven!
anyway, i just can't wait. i'm more intrigued by the new turbo tibby!
anyway, he is a legit source who knows what's he talkin about. he never even bought a hyundai before and he drives acura. he isn't a typical hyundai homer like some of us.
"The drive... wow. I was smiling ear to ear after the test drive, and I drove a base model test mule. If I didn't know any better, I would have asked if it were a Mercedes Benz S-class or a Lexus LS. I mean, it was just incredible. I could not believe that a car like this would be offered in the 30k-40k range. I thought I was excited about the G8, but I can tell you that when the time comes, I will be at the Hyundai dealership, not Pontiac."
unbelievable. again, he is a car enthusiast. he knows what he talkin about.
anyway, i saw a heavily camoed genesis on 1-75 near toledo, and i was like "wow is this really happening?" it seemed like it's little bigger than M45. i tailed it for about 20 minutes. it looked powerful, and elegant.
> i saw a heavily camoed genesis on 1-75 near toledo
Why would they be test driving in the Toledo area? What's the connection?
I saw a Buick Park Ave before the last redesign in 1997? being driven in that area and figured out what it was despite the camoflage of the rear end taillight pattern. That's between Detroit and Flint. Why's Hyundai in that area?
Companies test drive stuff all over. I have friends who work at Subaru which is based in NJ and built in Japan and Indiana and they've tested them all over the country, CA, AZ, CO, KS, OH, TN, wherever they want to test them. I wouldn't call it bogus just because they saw it in OH.
>Hyundai has an engineering facility in Michigan about an hours drive north of Toledo.
Let me make it perfectly clear I was not questioning anyone"s veracity about the Hyundai sighting around Toledo. I asked "Why there" and someone just answered it.
I recall when I worked for Dow I was going into the city to visit a college friend who worked at Ford. I saw a Thunderbird being thrown back and forth on across the lanes of I696 I believe was the number, near Wixom. I was in the height of my glory having been a Ford fan in those days... having seen the new Thunderbird being tested out on the road.
What does he do anyway? Why is he allowed to test drive the prototype Genesis? Does he work for Hyundai? I wouldn't think so since he "never cared about Hyundai". Does he work for one of the car mags? I highly doubt it since the Genesis is still at least a year away from production. So it makes little sense that Hyundai will let the press to test drive it now.
Again, not trying to bash the Genesis here. Just raising a few questions.
he works for the hyundai's bama plant. and yes, he is a classy white dude, not korean and definitely not a hyundai salesman. i believe he is an engineer.
this is other quote of his. hope he doesn't mind it
"Yep, they are doing prototype testing in the U.S. as well. But the 3 test mules I examined were at the Namyang R&D center in Korea. The one you saw probably came from HATCI near you in Ann Arbor. (Probably doing suspension and NVH testing on the horrible I-75 pavement )
When Hyundai unveiled the car at the NY Auto Show, one thing they did not show was the interior. The story is that they had an initial interior design, but scrapped it for a new one. The one in the prototype I drove was very nicely done. It reminded me of the S-class and to an extent, the Infiniti Q45. Even the base model had an LCD screen setup and a higher trim level vehicle had a central control station for the vehicle's functions (think iDrive but more intuitive). In other words, you will not be disappointed.
Derrick is right. Hyundai is not trying to sway BMW and Mercedes buyers into buying the Genesis or any other products in the line-up. These brands do not just command loyalty from their buyers, but it is largely a status symbol. People in that market do not care about value; they want image.
But if you want to advertise your products, you should advertise where you want it to be, not where it is today (Toyota/Lexus is the benchmark). Hyundai is looking into the future and is trying to build up the brand image. The BH is the first step and will not be the last in this market segment."
he works for the hyundai's bama plant. and yes, he is a classy white dude, not korean and definitely not a hyundai salesman
OK, but let's not go down the road of implying that someone who does not fit your description is less reliable for that reason. Let's just say you trust him
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I know the quality of Hyundai vehicles has improved dramatically since the original Excel of the '80's, but there are still major obstacles facing the company... regardless of the branding.
The Hyundai models do quite well in JD Power IQS studies, as well as Consumer Reports, but let's face it, very few people would feel "proud" to own one! Basically, the brand sucks! When your friends or family ask you "what kind of new car did you buy?", do you want to tell them "Hyundai"? You're going to have to come up with a good excuse as to why you bought one...
To make matters worse, Toyota/Nissan/Honda now all offer small cars at essentially the same price. It used to be that you could buy a Hyundai at a significant discount to other, better-known brands such as Toyota. Have you seen the Hyundai prices recently?!?! With each new model, the prices are going up big time. Yes, they are much better vehicles than the ones they replace, but personally I don't think they've earned the reputation/value part yet. Santa Fe's going up to $30,000!? Veracruz even higher?!?!
That said, I did see and read about the "Concept Genesis" RWD V8 sedan the company showed at the NY Auto Show. It sounds good, but I, for one, will withhold final judgment until it arrives. If it's priced like a Lexus/Infiniti/Acura (or a German make), I'll pass for sure! Even if it's the same price as a Toyota/Nissan/Honda, I would have to think long and hard about considering it. In order to win customers, they need a product that's BETTER than competitors for same or ideally LESS money. And PLEASE, PLEASE, don't make the new car drive like a Buick!! You have it make it worth my while to buy a Hyundai. There are a ton of great cars out there with more prestigious brands, and for similar prices!
If the guys at Hyundai think that a simple renaming of a brand will suddenly increase their sales (or prices), they are sadly mistaken and need a reality check. Who's going to pay $30k for some unknown brand?! I would buy a loaded Accord or Camry for under $30k, and not have to think twice.
Also, there are only so many auto manufacturers in the world. If a "Genesis" goes on sale one day, don't you think people will be asking "who makes that thing?" Once it's associated with Hyundai, it's got the same brand problem.
Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I am the only one with this perspective.
P.S. -- When the Chinese car companies come, do you think their new, unknown brands will be able to suddenly command Toyota prices?! I may be dating myself, but I remember back in teh '70's when Toyota's were considered cheap and tinny, though they were never unreliable. It's taken 25-30 years for them to establish their brand. How many years of good product has Hyundai given us??
When your friends or family ask you "what kind of new car did you buy?", do you want to tell them "Hyundai"?
You’ve got a point there, so when I bought my 05’ XG350, to avoid this embarrassment I grabbed a cold chisel and a hammer and removed every Hyundai badge both inside and out that I could find. I wanted to just pull them off or unbolt them but those guys even put their badges on with the same quality as they build the car itself. Imagine that, they must have known people like me would try to do something like this, but I’m just too smart for them.
Prestige is everything, so I bought some MB badges and glued them on. Note, I had to buy these on line because when the local MB dealer got wind of what I wanted to do he refused the sale. I think he had his nose in the air too. I can’t tell you how thrilled I am just knowing that now my friends and family are not ashamed of me.
Oh to live in a society where you are judged by what you have. Especially cars. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Funny you should say that, there is a Camry near me that has been debadged and has has a Benz star attached to the truck and Buick side holes along the front. I bet the owner thinks its cool but its laughable.
For me I couldn't care less what others think about my car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Funny you should say that, there is a Camry near me that has been debadged and has has a Benz star attached to the truck and Buick side holes along the front.
I think you may have found one of my long lost cousins. Put him in a box and send him home. I think there's a reward.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think what is significant here, at least in part, is that there is a certain amount of risk associated with buying a so-called unproven brand, such as Hyundai. I spent six months researching cars until I purchased my Azera with the ultimate package.
I am not a risk taker when it comes to this much money. But after reading what other owners and reviewers had to say, I was convinced that I was buying a quality car at a value price. And this has proven to be true in every sense.
I consider myself a member of the pioneer group which must exist to get fledgling cars off the ground and on their way to fame.
Truthfully, I considered what others, including my family, might think. But I soon put those thoughts aside. I now find myself quite proud of my purchase. My friends and family are definitely supportive and impressed.
Bottom line: don't buy based on what others think... buy based on quality, performance, and value.
When your friends or family ask you "what kind of new car did you buy?", do you want to tell them "Hyundai"? You're going to have to come up with a good excuse as to why you bought one...
I can only say... wow. I hope to never find myself in such a superficial state of existence that I feel even the slightest urge to justify my purchases (of anything) to a single other person on this planet.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
The article hit the nail on the head. Hyundai has done nothing to inspire brand loyalty, other than it's poorly created "loyalty discount". The Consumer Affairs dept sucks. The people at the other end of the phone know little about the product, which becomes evident after the first minute of conversation. Management has done little to support the dealer network with necessary technical information. It is unbelievable that an owner must go to the service department with a TSB in hand to get action on an acknowledged problem. The sales staff, in most cases, also knows little about their products. Most forum participants have knowledge far exceeding the typical dealer staff member. Why don't they read the forums? As a Hyundai owner,I have received no updates from the company about upcoming projects. Hyundai must do something to improve its image and communications if it wants to succeed in the upper end market.
Hyundai has done nothing to inspire brand loyalty, other than it's poorly created "loyalty discount".
I am not to sure about that. Making good cars that stand up creates brand loyalty. They have my business again and almost all Hyundai owners I have talked to will easily buy another one.
It is unbelievable that an owner must go to the service department with a TSB in hand to get action on an acknowledged problem.
My only experience with this is that I dropped off my car when the dealership was closed (filling out a form, putting the key in an envelope and dropping it off through a slot for the service manager) the next time I heard back from them was about 10:30-11:00 the next morning telling me my car was ready to be picked up. They fixed the problem no questions asked and quickly. So I don't know where you are getting your information.
Most forum participants have knowledge far exceeding the typical dealer staff member.
LOL thats the case with Hyundai as well as Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Ford, GM, BMW, MB, Lexus, Acura, Nissan and every car manufacturer.
As a Hyundai owner,I have received no updates from the company about upcoming projects.
Gee when I owned a Ford I didn't get any updates about upcoming projects, no did I when I owned a Chevy or a Dodge or a Chrysler nor does my sisters with their cars (Toyotas and Chevys). I think you are expecting to much.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
RE; 615 Hyundai is attempting to enter the "luxury" range. My past 3 vehicles were 2 BMW's and an Infiniti Q45. Although I admit that they were higher priced cars, there is no question that the other companies and the dealerships were more knowledgeable about their products, as well as more responsive to customer needs and desires. If you are comparing price only, the Hyundai is a great price, and a good car. I am not unhappy with my Azera, but with a little more effort from Hyundai, I could be a lot happier.
I have to mostly agree with floridabob. Although my dealership is very responsive, it is not as knowledgeable as I would prefer. I get the "My Hyundai" or whatever it is called newsletter, so I am seeing updated info via that.
My perception is that Hyundai is advertising more and working to improve customer service, they just need to keep at it and doing a little more would not hurt. I expect the "Genesis" or whatever to be a hit, but I do think it will take at least a couple of years for Hyundai to be thought of as having higher end cars. With what they say they can do with variations on the Genesis platform, I would expect a more robust higher end lineup in about 4 to 5 years and that Hyundai will have a lot more capability and credibility at that point.
RE:617 In 2005 when Hyundai announced their new flagship model the Azera, many of us were excited and waited in great expectation for the car to hit the showroom. I purchased mine prior to its actual arrival at the showrooms. At that time, wanting this new, great flagship model, I paid very close to MSRP. I am not unhappy with my purchase, but I am disappointed by the fact that they seem to be abandoning this product. Very few of the features available on the Korean version are offered here in the US market, and I am aware of no formal announcement by the company indicating that future models will include these features.
Although I admit that they were higher priced cars, there is no question that the other companies and the dealerships were more knowledgeable about their products,
I don't know, I have shopped BMW's and found the salesmen knowledge to be sadly lacking. One guy didn't know the first thing about the I-drive. :confuse:
I could also talk about how few Infiniti salesmen knew that the G35 came in a stick.
Anyway this is not a manufacturer issue it is a dealership issue.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think many Azera owners will upgrade to Genesis, if and when it is launched next year. If for no other reason then some of us lust for a value priced V-8 / RWD
I think Azera is doomed, falling from grace from the one time "flagship" sedan position coupled with the recently added GLS downgrade. (who wants an Azera with a Sonata engine)?
Much has been speculated about a new seperate Hyundai selling division, al-la Toyota / Lexus. The 2 closest dealers to me are product line dual, one featuring Linc./Merc. and the other Mitsu. Everyone connected with these 2 dealers treat Hyundai as the "other line." There IMO is what Hyundai should be focusing on. They have proven upgraded product, they should follow suit with their selling network.
RE: 620 The Hyundai buyer is for the most part an economic driven consumer, interested in an inexpensive, good quality automobile, with a long warranty. Will that consumer be looking for a 350 HP rear wheel drive car at the 35+k price range. I doubt it! Toyota initiated the Lexus brand, sold at a different dealership for this same marketing reason. It worked! If Hyundai wanted the Genesis to be under a new name by 2008, the dealership network would be well under way.
Most forum participants have knowledge far exceeding the typical dealer staff member.
I have also experienced this. Maybe the sales people should do a little research on their own vehicles they sell. Last time I was in for service, I waited in the showroom for about two hours watching TV. So did the other sales reps. They were also chatting about "funny" customers and a pending ugly divorce of one of the sales people.
I don't know how much longer they sat around after I left, but maybe they should have gone on their computers and looked up information about their cars, or at least read their own brochures. I know MUCH more about the Azera than they do.
This particular dealership didn't even know how to do a lease when I first tried to get my Azera. I tried to explain to them in detail speaking very slowly and telling them how to enter the information on their computer. They still couldn't do it and insisted that the $600 per month 27 month lease was correct. When I laughed at them and shook my head, I was kicked out of the dealership. LOL. I ended up leasing the Azera from a competing dealership for around $350 per month.
I suspect out of 8 hours in a day, the average Hyundai sales person at that particular dealership spends no more than 1-2 hours actually "working." All the rest of the time they sit around watching TV or talking. What a life. How much do they get paid?
And I have more stories. Like the Hyundai dealership that jacked up the "invoice" pricing by about $800 on the Azera and told me all of the online invoice pricing services and all of the other Hyundai dealerships were wrong. LOL. Then they tried to tack on a "dealer name fee" of $350 for the "privilege" of putting the name "Ken Garff" on their dealership. LOL. I left, of course.
Oh . . . okay -- one more story. I looked up another Hyundai dealership in Utah and MADE AN APPOINTMENT to see them about leasing an Azera. I drove the 50 minutes or so there and found myself in an open field of weeds. I called them on my cell phone and found out that the address in the phone book was wrong -- which they didn't even know (how odd is that?). So, I drove the additional 15 minutes to finally get there.
When I arrived I knew exactly what I wanted and what the "correct" numbers were for the lease. I negotiated a good price for the Azera after about 25 minutes and then put in motion the lease arrangements. The saleperson left me for a LONG time -- almost 20 minutes. When he came back, he told me that the only person who knew how to work the computer for a lease was off that day and they tried but couldn't do it. They tried to get him on the phone without luck.
So, I drove back home after taking a half day off work without any lease aggreement. They didn't call me back for two days and when they did, they told me they could do the lease, but the negotiated amount on the vehicle was too low and they would have to raise it. I said, "no deal" and continued on my way thinking that there must be ONE Hyundai dealership within 300 miles that knew what they were doing.
Oh my, I have a lot of stories. Anyway . . . this is not exclusive to Hyundai, I realize, but I was just baffled by the incompetent nature of the sales people at several Hyundai dealerships. I mean, I spend hours and hours weekly educating myself on the latest in my job and I usually don't have an idle minute when I work. The contrast is totally outrageous, IMO.
My purpose for bringing up my Hyundai dealership experiences in post #622 was to point out that for Hyundai to want to sell a luxury line such as the Genesis when they act so incompetent with the current lower line is laughable.
In contrast to my Hyundai experiences, I also visited Acura and BMW dealerships. Besides the Azera, I was looking at the Acura TL and the BMW 330 as possible purchases. I found the sales people there MUCH MUCH more competent. They acted professional, knew what they were talking about, sounded educated and articulate, dressed well, and appeared "busy" most of the time. The dealership was clean and much more comfortable. Huge contrast to my Hyundai experiences. I was so stunned with how bad the Hyundai dealerships were that I almost scratched the Azera off my list – regardless of how much I liked the car. If it weren’t for a good dealership I found 2 hours away – which was my last try – I would have gone Acura TL.
If Hyundai wants to play with the "big boys" and offer a competing luxury line like the Genesis they're going to have to massively improve their dealerships and CS departments. I mean in a HUGE way or it will be a completely laughable mess. You can't expect to sell a 40K car and offer 15K service. That's why offering a 40K luxury car will cost them MUCH more than just the new line. They'll have to remodel their showrooms, hire new employees, revamp their training programs, offer services beyond what they are offering now. This is VERY expensive, folks. But if they want to get into that "market" they better suck it up and be prepared to compete in ALL those other areas.
Disclaimer: Just my opinion based upon my experiences.
Most car salesmen are very new to what they are selling and many dealers just want warm bodies to sell. Yearly turnover at a lot of dealerships is close to 200%. I remember one time at a Subaru dealership the salesman showed me the 2,4 liter V6 they had. I looked at it and the first thing I said was that its a 4 cylinder engine. He insisted that it was a 2.4 liter V6 and I kept insisting that while it was a 2.4 liter it was also a 4 cylinder. The salesman was getting a little upset at me until I pointed out that there was only 4 spark plug wires. :sick:
Last time I was in for service, I waited in the showroom for about two hours watching TV. So did the other sales reps. They were also chatting about "funny" customers and a pending ugly divorce of one of the sales people.
When I was in sales I had the attitude that there was no down time. If I had no customers I was learning about our products, our competitors products and our industry. If I wasn't doing that I was trying to bring in new customers. When I supervised a sales staff I installed that into them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
Didn't understand a word they said but the pictures were nice.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Unless the actual transaction price of the Azera is over $30K I don't see it proves any point.
Many Azera buyers I ran into brag about they got the Limited trim for around $26K. That's a HUGE discount from its over $30K MSRP. Luxury cars don't sell this way...
With products like Genesis and Veracruz, Hyundai is ready.
Azera is luxury on some level but overall it's a premium sedan.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120740#5
I'd invest in a new name, as this Tiburon couldn't have less in common with anything previously offered.
I guess they're tossing the value card out of the window, as the Mustang and 2009 Camaro will have V8s for the same, or less.
If they brought it out this year, they'd have a shot.
But once the '09 Camaro hits, NO ONE WILL NOTICE A NEW TIBURON, except the fact that they will notice it's not a value anymore.
Saying its competing with the G37 is wishful thinking, again.
Too bad, this car has potential, if timed and marketed right. :surprise:
But Hyundai will drop the ball, on both accounts. :lemon:
Somebody seems to think they're Toyota/Lexus, all wrapped up into one. For shame! :sick:
DrFill
In 2009, whenever I see a new 09 tiburon on a road, I might think of this comment that you made.
'somebody said "NO ONE WILL NOTICE" :P
Wow, everyone who works at Hyundai should just leave work now b/c drfill is predicting a failure years before the car even debuts in the showroom. All hail Toyota.
There is a forum on this so I won't dwell on it too much but sources are saying this could have either the I4 Turbo pushing 230hp, or the second genearation of Lambda V6 expected around 300 horses, or the Tau V8 (Hyundai has 4.6L 5.0 and 5.5L, including supercharged). I would think two of the three (I4, V6, V8) would make it at launch.
Here's the link.
link title
The following is from the link.
The price is not fixed but will likely range between W45 million and W60 million (US$1=W925).
Huh...If somebody didn't misplace a decimal or more than likely didn't lose a digit; this says everyone on this thread was all wet and therefore, blows everyone here out of the water as far as having a Genesis in their driveway. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Could be a misprint or typo. Or it just could be someones speculation or that Hyundai is pricing it differently in different markets. Not to mention its not an official Hyundai statement.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I saw that, but since those numbers seemed so far off (I hope), I just had to comment.
Just as I was starting to believe what I read on the internet (especially here at Edmunds), my confidence is shattered once again.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Oh go ahead and believe everything you read on the internet.
You owe me a million dollars
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There is no conformation from Hyudai about creating
luxury division.
IMHO, Hyudai should make a luxury brand in future.
W45 million = US$49K
W60 million = US$65K
72% of that are $35K and $47K, respectively.
Looks like the US-bound Genesis will start at mid-low $30K and top out around mid $40K. This pricing makes sense to me. Pretty much Hyundai is charging 3-series kind of price for a 5-series plus kind of car. Still a great value.
I was not aware of this 72% factor but since I'm getting this info here at Edmunds, it must be true, right !!! :shades:
I wonder if 'snake' will give me this discount on what I owe him.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The MSRP of a top of the line Sonata is $26.5K and a top of the line Tiburon is $23.5K. Compare to the Korean version, that's 70% and 83% of the prices, respectively. If Hyundai is following the current pricing strategy one can safely to assume that the US Genesis will cost somewhere between 70% to 80% of the price of the Korean version.
Here's the link of the Hyundai Korea Website
I know a lot of y'all have great expectation that the Genesis will start "well below" $30K so I am sure posts like this won't be well received :P . However, I am not here to play "Debbie Downer", just merely stating the facts.
"I had a chance to drive the final stage Genesis prototype yesterday.
And to the poster who asked how we could know for sure that this coupe is a Hyundai... I can tell you it is a Hyundai vehicle because I saw the coupe with my own eyes while I was there. More on this at the bottom.
Without revealing corporate secrets, I can tell you that the Genesis is simply stunning. I am not able to tell you what kind of options or powertrains it will come with because it is still being finalized (and I value my job), but it certainly won't lack in the power department or luxury features.
The drive... wow. I was smiling ear to ear after the test drive, and I drove a base model test mule. If I didn't know any better, I would have asked if it were a Mercedes Benz S-class or a Lexus LS. I mean, it was just incredible. I could not believe that a car like this would be offered in the 30k-40k range. I thought I was excited about the G8, but I can tell you that when the time comes, I will be at the Hyundai dealership, not Pontiac.
Unfortunately, the front and rear fascia design were still under development and thus heavily camouflaged. I wasn't allowed to take pictures, anyway.
Bottom line is that Hyundai has built a real contender in the luxury rwd market and V8 is definitely being considered for the U.S. market from what I was told. As much as I love my TL, I may be replacing her next year.
I am still in shock and awe of how stunning the Genesis was as I type this. If you guys are getting your hopes up for the Genesis, then I can confidently say that you will not be disappointed.
Now onto the coupe... I was not able to get a close look because it was being driven away and it was very heavily camouflaged. But I could still make out the overall shape of it and it was BEAUTIFUL. I'm talking Aston Martin DB9 greenhouse meets Ferrari 599 Fiorano roof line. You may think that I am exaggerating, but I can tell you that very few cars strike me as beautifully sculpted. But Hyundai got the lines on this (at least the parts I could see) very nicely. Solid and hard, yet soft and flowing lines. We are on a very subjective topic, yes, but it definitely gave me a chubby looking at it.
Oh and we hit 130 in an Azera on a 40-degree bank high speed test track. That was frigging fun. I was on the inside and it felt like I could just reach out the window and touch the pavement. It feels like you are sitting vertical to the ground and the g-forces pulling you toward the outside. Screw road racing, I'm going NASCAR. "
Thanks for the share!!!!
RE: GENESIS
I can't wait to see it and drive it! When I buy this car (and I will) I'll make sure I buy as far away as possible so I can enjoy it to death driving it back home!
Once again, it'll be the fastest sell they make with me!
I've had my Azera for almost a year now and have +30,000KM on my car and am still deeply in love with it! BEST car I've ever owned! My 3 previous cars were Camry's. My AZERA is so comfortable, quiet, fun, spacious to drive and can't believe the comments I get from it.
If the GENESIS is the SLIGHTEST bit better than the AZERA, then OMG I'm going to die and go to heaven!
Ciao
anyway, he is a legit source who knows what's he talkin about. he never even bought a hyundai before and he drives acura. he isn't a typical hyundai homer like some of us.
unbelievable. again, he is a car enthusiast. he knows what he talkin about.
anyway, i saw a heavily camoed genesis on 1-75 near toledo, and i was like "wow is this really happening?" it seemed like it's little bigger than M45. i tailed it for about 20 minutes. it looked powerful, and elegant.
Why would they be test driving in the Toledo area? What's the connection?
I saw a Buick Park Ave before the last redesign in 1997? being driven in that area and figured out what it was despite the camoflage of the rear end taillight pattern. That's between Detroit and Flint. Why's Hyundai in that area?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/abouthyundai/rethink/design/design.aspx
i believe every words he said. all he said was it drives like a dream. and i agree with his assessment on tibby. it's a terrific looking mule.
Let me make it perfectly clear I was not questioning anyone"s veracity about the Hyundai sighting around Toledo. I asked "Why there" and someone just answered it.
I recall when I worked for Dow I was going into the city to visit a college friend who worked at Ford. I saw a Thunderbird being thrown back and forth on across the lanes of I696 I believe was the number, near Wixom. I was in the height of my glory having been a Ford fan in those days... having seen the new Thunderbird being tested out on the road.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Okay, I am sold... :confuse:
What does he do anyway? Why is he allowed to test drive the prototype Genesis? Does he work for Hyundai? I wouldn't think so since he "never cared about Hyundai". Does he work for one of the car mags? I highly doubt it since the Genesis is still at least a year away from production. So it makes little sense that Hyundai will let the press to test drive it now.
Again, not trying to bash the Genesis here. Just raising a few questions.
this is other quote of his. hope he doesn't mind it
"Yep, they are doing prototype testing in the U.S. as well. But the 3 test mules I examined were at the Namyang R&D center in Korea. The one you saw probably came from HATCI near you in Ann Arbor. (Probably doing suspension and NVH testing on the horrible I-75 pavement )
When Hyundai unveiled the car at the NY Auto Show, one thing they did not show was the interior. The story is that they had an initial interior design, but scrapped it for a new one. The one in the prototype I drove was very nicely done. It reminded me of the S-class and to an extent, the Infiniti Q45. Even the base model had an LCD screen setup and a higher trim level vehicle had a central control station for the vehicle's functions (think iDrive but more intuitive). In other words, you will not be disappointed.
Derrick is right. Hyundai is not trying to sway BMW and Mercedes buyers into buying the Genesis or any other products in the line-up. These brands do not just command loyalty from their buyers, but it is largely a status symbol. People in that market do not care about value; they want image.
But if you want to advertise your products, you should advertise where you want it to be, not where it is today (Toyota/Lexus is the benchmark). Hyundai is looking into the future and is trying to build up the brand image. The BH is the first step and will not be the last in this market segment."
OK, but let's not go down the road of implying that someone who does not fit your description is less reliable for that reason. Let's just say you trust him
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The Hyundai models do quite well in JD Power IQS studies, as well as Consumer Reports, but let's face it, very few people would feel "proud" to own one! Basically, the brand sucks! When your friends or family ask you "what kind of new car did you buy?", do you want to tell them "Hyundai"? You're going to have to come up with a good excuse as to why you bought one...
To make matters worse, Toyota/Nissan/Honda now all offer small cars at essentially the same price. It used to be that you could buy a Hyundai at a significant discount to other, better-known brands such as Toyota. Have you seen the Hyundai prices recently?!?! With each new model, the prices are going up big time. Yes, they are much better vehicles than the ones they replace, but personally I don't think they've earned the reputation/value part yet. Santa Fe's going up to $30,000!? Veracruz even higher?!?!
That said, I did see and read about the "Concept Genesis" RWD V8 sedan the company showed at the NY Auto Show. It sounds good, but I, for one, will withhold final judgment until it arrives. If it's priced like a Lexus/Infiniti/Acura (or a German make), I'll pass for sure! Even if it's the same price as a Toyota/Nissan/Honda, I would have to think long and hard about considering it. In order to win customers, they need a product that's BETTER than competitors for same or ideally LESS money. And PLEASE, PLEASE, don't make the new car drive like a Buick!! You have it make it worth my while to buy a Hyundai. There are a ton of great cars out there with more prestigious brands, and for similar prices!
If the guys at Hyundai think that a simple renaming of a brand will suddenly increase their sales (or prices), they are sadly mistaken and need a reality check. Who's going to pay $30k for some unknown brand?! I would buy a loaded Accord or Camry for under $30k, and not have to think twice.
Also, there are only so many auto manufacturers in the world. If a "Genesis" goes on sale one day, don't you think people will be asking "who makes that thing?" Once it's associated with Hyundai, it's got the same brand problem.
Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I am the only one with this perspective.
P.S. -- When the Chinese car companies come, do you think their new, unknown brands will be able to suddenly command Toyota prices?! I may be dating myself, but I remember back in teh '70's when Toyota's were considered cheap and tinny, though they were never unreliable. It's taken 25-30 years for them to establish their brand. How many years of good product has Hyundai given us??
:confuse:
Sure why not? A lot of my friends and family own Hyundais, they know they are good cars.
You're going to have to come up with a good excuse as to why you bought one...
Yep the good excuse is the ride I give them in mine. :shades:
To make matters worse, Toyota/Nissan/Honda now all offer small cars at essentially the same price.
Yeah but if memory serves you get a stripped down Honda or Toyota for about the price of a nicely equipped Hyundai.
It sounds good, but I, for one, will withhold final judgment until it arrives.
Seems like you have your mind made up already.
How many years of good product has Hyundai given us??
I would say at least 7, most likely far more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You’ve got a point there, so when I bought my 05’ XG350, to avoid this embarrassment I grabbed a cold chisel and a hammer and removed every Hyundai badge both inside and out that I could find. I wanted to just pull them off or unbolt them but those guys even put their badges on with the same quality as they build the car itself. Imagine that, they must have known people like me would try to do something like this, but I’m just too smart for them.
Prestige is everything, so I bought some MB badges and glued them on. Note, I had to buy these on line because when the local MB dealer got wind of what I wanted to do he refused the sale. I think he had his nose in the air too. I can’t tell you how thrilled I am just knowing that now my friends and family are not ashamed of me.
Oh to live in a society where you are judged by what you have. Especially cars. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
For me I couldn't care less what others think about my car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think you may have found one of my long lost cousins.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am not a risk taker when it comes to this much money. But after reading what other owners and reviewers had to say, I was convinced that I was buying a quality car at a value price. And this has proven to be true in every sense.
I consider myself a member of the pioneer group which must exist to get fledgling cars off the ground and on their way to fame.
Truthfully, I considered what others, including my family, might think. But I soon put those thoughts aside. I now find myself quite proud of my purchase. My friends and family are definitely supportive and impressed.
Bottom line: don't buy based on what others think... buy based on quality, performance, and value.
You're going to have to come up with a good excuse as to why you bought one...
I can only say... wow.
I hope to never find myself in such a superficial state of existence that I feel even the slightest urge to justify my purchases (of anything) to a single other person on this planet.
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Secondly I agree with you. The best excuse to give for buying any car is that you like it and it fits your needs. Nothing more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hyundai has done nothing to inspire brand loyalty, other than it's poorly created "loyalty discount".
The Consumer Affairs dept sucks. The people at the other end of the phone know little about the product, which becomes evident after the first minute of conversation.
Management has done little to support the dealer network with necessary technical information.
It is unbelievable that an owner must go to the service department with a TSB in hand to get action on an acknowledged problem.
The sales staff, in most cases, also knows little about their products. Most forum participants have knowledge far exceeding the typical dealer staff member. Why don't they read the forums?
As a Hyundai owner,I have received no updates from the company about upcoming projects.
Hyundai must do something to improve its image and communications if it wants to succeed in the upper end market.
I am not to sure about that. Making good cars that stand up creates brand loyalty. They have my business again and almost all Hyundai owners I have talked to will easily buy another one.
It is unbelievable that an owner must go to the service department with a TSB in hand to get action on an acknowledged problem.
My only experience with this is that I dropped off my car when the dealership was closed (filling out a form, putting the key in an envelope and dropping it off through a slot for the service manager) the next time I heard back from them was about 10:30-11:00 the next morning telling me my car was ready to be picked up. They fixed the problem no questions asked and quickly. So I don't know where you are getting your information.
Most forum participants have knowledge far exceeding the typical dealer staff member.
LOL thats the case with Hyundai as well as Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Ford, GM, BMW, MB, Lexus, Acura, Nissan and every car manufacturer.
As a Hyundai owner,I have received no updates from the company about upcoming projects.
Gee when I owned a Ford I didn't get any updates about upcoming projects, no did I when I owned a Chevy or a Dodge or a Chrysler nor does my sisters with their cars (Toyotas and Chevys). I think you are expecting to much.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hyundai is attempting to enter the "luxury" range.
My past 3 vehicles were 2 BMW's and an Infiniti Q45.
Although I admit that they were higher priced cars, there is no question that the other companies and the dealerships were more knowledgeable about their products, as well as more responsive to customer needs and desires.
If you are comparing price only, the Hyundai is a great price, and a good car.
I am not unhappy with my Azera, but with a little more effort from Hyundai, I could be a lot happier.
My perception is that Hyundai is advertising more and working to improve customer service, they just need to keep at it and doing a little more would not hurt. I expect the "Genesis" or whatever to be a hit, but I do think it will take at least a couple of years for Hyundai to be thought of as having higher end cars. With what they say they can do with variations on the Genesis platform, I would expect a more robust higher end lineup in about 4 to 5 years and that Hyundai will have a lot more capability and credibility at that point.
In 2005 when Hyundai announced their new flagship model the Azera, many of us were excited and waited in great expectation for the car to hit the showroom.
I purchased mine prior to its actual arrival at the showrooms.
At that time, wanting this new, great flagship model, I paid very close to MSRP.
I am not unhappy with my purchase, but I am disappointed by the fact that they seem to be abandoning this product.
Very few of the features available on the Korean version are offered here in the US market, and I am aware of no formal announcement by the company indicating that future models will include these features.
I don't know, I have shopped BMW's and found the salesmen knowledge to be sadly lacking. One guy didn't know the first thing about the I-drive. :confuse:
I could also talk about how few Infiniti salesmen knew that the G35 came in a stick.
Anyway this is not a manufacturer issue it is a dealership issue.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think Azera is doomed, falling from grace from the one time "flagship" sedan position coupled with the recently added GLS downgrade. (who wants an Azera with a Sonata engine)?
Much has been speculated about a new seperate Hyundai selling division, al-la Toyota / Lexus. The 2 closest dealers to me are product line dual, one featuring Linc./Merc. and the other Mitsu. Everyone connected with these 2 dealers treat Hyundai as the "other line." There IMO is what Hyundai should be focusing on. They have proven upgraded product, they should follow suit with their selling network.
The Hyundai buyer is for the most part an economic driven consumer, interested in an inexpensive, good quality automobile, with a long warranty.
Will that consumer be looking for a 350 HP rear wheel drive car at the 35+k price range.
I doubt it!
Toyota initiated the Lexus brand, sold at a different dealership for this same marketing reason. It worked!
If Hyundai wanted the Genesis to be under a new name by 2008, the dealership network would be well under way.
I have also experienced this. Maybe the sales people should do a little research on their own vehicles they sell. Last time I was in for service, I waited in the showroom for about two hours watching TV. So did the other sales reps. They were also chatting about "funny" customers and a pending ugly divorce of one of the sales people.
I don't know how much longer they sat around after I left, but maybe they should have gone on their computers and looked up information about their cars, or at least read their own brochures. I know MUCH more about the Azera than they do.
This particular dealership didn't even know how to do a lease when I first tried to get my Azera. I tried to explain to them in detail speaking very slowly and telling them how to enter the information on their computer. They still couldn't do it and insisted that the $600 per month 27 month lease was correct. When I laughed at them and shook my head, I was kicked out of the dealership. LOL. I ended up leasing the Azera from a competing dealership for around $350 per month.
I suspect out of 8 hours in a day, the average Hyundai sales person at that particular dealership spends no more than 1-2 hours actually "working." All the rest of the time they sit around watching TV or talking. What a life. How much do they get paid?
And I have more stories. Like the Hyundai dealership that jacked up the "invoice" pricing by about $800 on the Azera and told me all of the online invoice pricing services and all of the other Hyundai dealerships were wrong. LOL. Then they tried to tack on a "dealer name fee" of $350 for the "privilege" of putting the name "Ken Garff" on their dealership. LOL. I left, of course.
Oh . . . okay -- one more story. I looked up another Hyundai dealership in Utah and MADE AN APPOINTMENT to see them about leasing an Azera. I drove the 50 minutes or so there and found myself in an open field of weeds. I called them on my cell phone and found out that the address in the phone book was wrong -- which they didn't even know (how odd is that?). So, I drove the additional 15 minutes to finally get there.
When I arrived I knew exactly what I wanted and what the "correct" numbers were for the lease. I negotiated a good price for the Azera after about 25 minutes and then put in motion the lease arrangements. The saleperson left me for a LONG time -- almost 20 minutes. When he came back, he told me that the only person who knew how to work the computer for a lease was off that day and they tried but couldn't do it. They tried to get him on the phone without luck.
So, I drove back home after taking a half day off work without any lease aggreement. They didn't call me back for two days and when they did, they told me they could do the lease, but the negotiated amount on the vehicle was too low and they would have to raise it. I said, "no deal" and continued on my way thinking that there must be ONE Hyundai dealership within 300 miles that knew what they were doing.
Oh my, I have a lot of stories. Anyway . . . this is not exclusive to Hyundai, I realize, but I was just baffled by the incompetent nature of the sales people at several Hyundai dealerships. I mean, I spend hours and hours weekly educating myself on the latest in my job and I usually don't have an idle minute when I work. The contrast is totally outrageous, IMO.
I agree completely.
A good salesman will take the time to learn about the product he is selling.
The TV watchers are only marking time.
In contrast to my Hyundai experiences, I also visited Acura and BMW dealerships. Besides the Azera, I was looking at the Acura TL and the BMW 330 as possible purchases. I found the sales people there MUCH MUCH more competent. They acted professional, knew what they were talking about, sounded educated and articulate, dressed well, and appeared "busy" most of the time. The dealership was clean and much more comfortable. Huge contrast to my Hyundai experiences. I was so stunned with how bad the Hyundai dealerships were that I almost scratched the Azera off my list – regardless of how much I liked the car. If it weren’t for a good dealership I found 2 hours away – which was my last try – I would have gone Acura TL.
If Hyundai wants to play with the "big boys" and offer a competing luxury line like the Genesis they're going to have to massively improve their dealerships and CS departments. I mean in a HUGE way or it will be a completely laughable mess. You can't expect to sell a 40K car and offer 15K service. That's why offering a 40K luxury car will cost them MUCH more than just the new line. They'll have to remodel their showrooms, hire new employees, revamp their training programs, offer services beyond what they are offering now. This is VERY expensive, folks. But if they want to get into that "market" they better suck it up and be prepared to compete in ALL those other areas.
Disclaimer: Just my opinion based upon my experiences.
Last time I was in for service, I waited in the showroom for about two hours watching TV. So did the other sales reps. They were also chatting about "funny" customers and a pending ugly divorce of one of the sales people.
When I was in sales I had the attitude that there was no down time. If I had no customers I was learning about our products, our competitors products and our industry. If I wasn't doing that I was trying to bring in new customers. When I supervised a sales staff I installed that into them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D