Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I know this is off topic but isn't there a forum here with the title something like "Buying American what does it mean"?

    On topic does anyone know what kind of tranny this car will have. It would be great if Hyundai offered it in a manual but I don't think they will.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    isn't there a forum here with the title something like "Buying American what does it mean"?

    Why yes, thanks for asking! ;)

    Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

    It would be great if Hyundai offered it in a manual but I don't think they will.

    I agree on both counts.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I'd think the same 6 speed that is in the Veracruz.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Sorry for the [Rant] guys, but just seems like everytime someone mentions something good about a foreign car, someone comes in and trys to play the "but it's not helping America" card....

    Back to the discussion.... MT would be nice, and if it's going against the M5 it SHOULD have one available. It'll get a 6 or more speed AT although not sure if it'll be out of the veracruz, is that FWD or RWD based?

    -mike
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The Veracruz is either FWD or AWD. So I am not to sure i it will be the Veracruz tranny, but it most likely be a 6 speed auto I doubt if it will be more than that (in reality a six speed auto is borderline over kill).

    When Cadillac came out with the CTS it was a MT and the V series is only available in a MT. I think Hyundai would be smart to follow that and have it in a manual.

    But since all MT Hyundais (Sonata and above) have a shiftable auto transmission there will be some that would say offering a MT is not needed. I say not.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Auto-shift is nothing like an MT. It's really a hoky cutsy way of choosing what gear is electronically chosen by the TCU. Any car with an auto-trans can be "tiptronically, autosticked" or otherwise shifted in the same manner. All it does is "suggest" to the TCU what gear the car should be in.

    I think they should definitely take the 5 series and CTS path and have an optional MT for these vehicles. Would probably sway me more toward considering the purchase if they did and would show that they are serious about performance luxury rather than just another full-size car.

    -mike
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I fully agree with what you said. However my understanding is that the shiftable manuals will always go into the gear you "suggest" unless it produces a RPM that is to high or to low. IOW as long as the engine is not red lining or at a stall speed it will be in the gear you select.

    Yet it is nothing like a MT.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Depends on the implementation of the TCU programming.

    For instance, in my old SVX, when I tracked it I ran the AT in "2" or "1" once you hit redline, it would automatically upshift to the next highest gear. Once in the higher gear, if you slowed enough that it would not be past redline when going to the lower gear it would downshift automatically. This setup of all the automatics I've driven on-track, is the most ideal. Essentially providing perfect shifting each time. I would be coming down the front straight at Limerock Park in 3rd gear with the selector in "2" as soon as I started to brake near just before the bridge, it would shift down to 2nd gear and apply engine braking perfectly.

    Some systems despite what gear you select will put you in what it feels it should be in, although when in "manual" mode it is a bit more agressive, holding you at redline longer.

    I played with the setup on my mom's optima, it was cool but like the other manumatics, could never really get comfy with it and just kept it in D.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Member Posts: 202
    however will not ever buy one until these cars get made in the U.S. with more than just 5% domestic content and are american union made

    At the risk of my well being, I worked as a liason officer with the UAW benefit representatives for over three years. These people were appointed by the UAW leadership without reagard to their capabilities. I inherited this role in a job change and these "reps" were meeting with my customer service reps every Friday. They were crude, rude and cared little for their fellow employees. They spent most of their time hitting on the female customer service reps. I heard things like "sit on my f!@#" and worse. I had to immediately go to corporate counsel because they were opening my company and theirs to EEO suits. My Uncle worked on the Corvette line until he retired and could not stand to be around his non Corvette "union brothers". He witnessed them stealing tools, putting rivets into heater hoses and much more.
    As far as benefits the UAW wanted everthing in beneftis along with high salaries for unskilled labor. That helped destroy the US automobile industry. I was called to Detroit to be "verbally whipped" by the head office but after they learned of the EEO ramifications they changed their demeanor right away. Are all UAW workers like this? Certainly not. In my location the Chrsler and Ford reps were capable men qualified to do their representative jobs and there were no sexual inuendos. I was threatened by on of the GM reps and on one occasion he tried to punch me in the lobby of my building. He was so drunk I simply ducked and he fell on the brick floor and knocked himself out.
    In any event, the UAW leadership let their employees down by demanding too much for unskilled labor. Granted, an assembly line is a monotonous job but I bet there are people who would line up to do the work for half the price. We sent our customer servic reps to the GM assembly plant to work in American made rental cars. At the GM plant they broke the windshield out of a Chrysler.
    Are these the type of people we want building US cars? Can we trust them to build quality vehicles?
    After my experience with these crude people I have the answer to that question. The answer is no.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/Concept_Cars/GENESIS/Press_Release.asp

    These are the only known facts we have, right ?........

    Rocky
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    In my opinion, Hyundai should attempt to solidify it's position in the market by further developing the Azera.
    Adding all of the toys of the Korean model, such as smart key, navigation, lazar guided cruise control, blue tooth, Ipod connect, etc. would bring in more of the entry level luxury buyers.
    I'm not sure that enough true luxury buyers will have enough faith, at this time, to invest in this model.
    If they would continue to improve the Azera, it would be an easier transition.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    DO BOTH. Loving my AZZY
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 432: Hyundai today is a classic example of Dr. Deming's CPI theory Toyota learned from him long ago. Hyundai, like Toyota continues to improve their products increasing global market share and owner loyality. They have done all the right things with US manufacturing and vastly improved product rolling out on both sides of the Pacific.

    Of course they can improve Azera as you point out, and no doubt will. Will they build and launch Genesis as an entirely different platform and logical upgrade over Azera? Of course, because they can. Will the consumer buy it from the majority of the existing US dealer network? Are you listening Hyundai?
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE: 434
    I would have expected Hyundai to add the luxury and high end features of the Korean model to the 07 Azera.
    They did not!
    As the features are already in the non US models, no new technology or manufacturing concerns were needed.
    In my opinion, they missed a great opportunity to move their customer base to a higher level.
    This leads me to believe that the lower end is still their primary target.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    ...and I certainly haven't read ALL the posts (good lord you guys have been busy) but I have a question:

    For the amount of money it takes to develop a new RWD chassis from the ground up, is there any word on any OTHER new RWD Hyundai models?

    Like a big 2-door coupe/convertible (akin to the MB CL series or BMW 6-series or even the Lexus SC?). Or maybe a dedicated sportscar?
  • sairajeshsairajesh Member Posts: 1
    Some one mentioned in this forum that the mileage could be as bad as 12 in city and 20+ in highway (say for a V8). I agree that the cost of the car could outweigh the high gas cost that may incur for gas, to some extent. What I would like to know from the experts looking at this forum is a good estimate of what they think could be a reasonable numbers for mileage in city and highway.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 435: "This leads me to believe that the lower end is still their primary target"

    With the price of Veracruz and what we know about Genesis pricing if in fact it is launched? North of 30K is hardly "lower end."
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 436: "Like a big 2-door coupe/convertible (akin to the MB CL series or BMW 6-series or even the Lexus SC?). Or maybe a dedicated sportscar?"

    I read somewhere Tiburon was a candidate for a complete makeover to include rwd/v8.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I read somewhere Tiburon was a candidate for a complete makeover to include rwd/v8."

    I just answered my own question.

    According to a write-up in this months "Winding Road", the BH platform will form the basis for the Genesis sedan, and extended Genesis "Plus" model, a 2-door sportscoupe, and a sedan for the Kia dealerships.

    They have a multi-page writeup including interior photos (from prototype testing TWO-YEARS ago), as well as a photo of the coupe and the long-wheelbase "plus" version.

    www.windingroad.com

    You have to subscribe to read this electronic-only on-line magazine but subscription is free.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE; 438
    Only time will tell if Hyundai customers are willing to shell out close to 40k for these new models.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Well . . . I own an Azera which is a V6 -- about 275 horsepower and I get about 15 city and 28 highway. I would guess that a V8 with 350 HP would be less. I wouldn't be surprised if the city mileage is 12-14 and the highway is 24-26 in "real life" driving. The EPA figures are often not accurate -- at least from my experience.

    I guess there's always hope that they can come up with some amazingly efficient V8 engine that gets better mileage than the V6 Azera engine, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    But I would sure LOVE a RWD V8 car with 350+ HP -- good mileage or not!
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE:444
    If they are introducing a 350 HP V8, it certainly isn't meant to deliver great fuel efficiency
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    Preety happy with my Azera's mpg. I am averaging 23.8 combined over last 3,000mi. I would expect the Genesis to range from 16 to 24. Average mileage seems to keep going up across the industry. Technology is always improving.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Unfortunately there is only so much energy in a gallon of gas. And while technology is always improving there is the law of diminishing returns which states that it gets harder to increase gas mileage as you go along.

    Add to that that the Genesis will be larger (read heavier) with a more powerful engine (read less efficient in an MPG way) I seriously doubt you will be in the range of the Azera in gas mileage. I would expect 15-10% less than the Azera.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • chiefloadchiefload Member Posts: 31
    But then again, if I want excellent MPG, I would buy a Honda Civic Hybrid... What is the best MPG that one can expect out of a RWD V8? Does anybody have a list handy that shows a comparison of FE of various RWD V8 powered cars? Make no mistake, at 2.85 a gallon as it is today at the 4 gas stations within a 1/2 mile radius from my house FE is a factor but I realize that I will have some trade-off with such a car. (Growing up in Europe, paying per LITRE of gas what one paid/pays here for a GALLON of gas, even after 20 years, I still think I have hit the 'mother lode'.. Yeah, I know: SELFISH....)

    And one more: all statements that I have seen so far from Hyundai talk about the Genesis at 'well below 6 seconds for 0-60, well above 300 HP and well below 30,000 bucks. The optimistic person that I am, I am still thinking I will get that car for less than 30,000 well equipped and WITH A V8... What leads us to believe that this might not be the case?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I would seriously doubt that you would be able to get a fully equipped V-8 Genesis for under $30K, not unless the car bombed terribly and Hyundai was forced to sell them in a "fire" sale.

    A fully equipped V-6 Azera runs 26-27K so what makes you think that a fully equipped V-8 powered car that is a step up from the Azera will only be 2-3K less?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    All we are doing is guessing. My guess is that the Genesis will start at about $33,500 with the 3.8L and that the V8 model will start at about $35,500. With all options, I suspect the 3.8L to come in at about $36,000 and the V8 at about $38,750.

    With next year's Azera topping out at $31,500, that puts about a $4,500 miniimun difference between the two, when simiarly equipped. About like a Sonata and the Azera.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    It will start under 30K.
  • gamlegedgamleged Member Posts: 442
    I suspect the Genesis will be positioned to favorably compare with models selling at 1.5 times its price, at least...
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    According to the press release. The "Genesis" will be "well under $30,000" and have the V8 engine with "well over 300 HP". Right . . .

    Personally, I don't see how that can happen. We might look back on that press release in year and shake our heads and laugh when we realize the V6 Genesis will start at $35,000 and the V8 will be $40,000. I'm sure they will blame it on "increased manufacturing costs" or the "weakening of the won" or something. But I would be surprised if the V8 fully equipped Genesis is not at least $10,000 more than an Azera.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    "weakening of the won"

    Actually, weakening of the won would only lower the price, if anything. The reality for the longest time has been increased value of won.

    "Personally, I don't see how that can happen."

    That's pretty pessimistic. Wouldn't you say? Everything is speculation until prices are released but all sources, official and unofficial, points this being a sub-30K RWD luxury sedan starting.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    points this being a sub-30K RWD luxury sedan starting

    Yup, like V6 starting at $29,599 (which is "sub-$30K") and V8 starting at $35,000. Still, even at these prices it is still a good value if it can live up to the hypes.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    If the Genesis does come out, and is priced under $30k Hyundai would be forced to lower the price of the Azera.
    Hardly feasible!
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Not necessarily at at all. As we stand now, the BH would probably start at or around a loaded Azera.

    Hey if the price of Azera is lower, I certainly wouldn't be complaining, as many others :)
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Well . . . all we can do is wait and see. I am very excited about this car. I am leasing an Azera right now, but would love to move to a Genesis next year some time as long as it's not too pricey.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Sure am glad I leased my '07. The closer Genesis becomes reality the bigger the value hit Azera takes.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I wouldn't say that. The Genesis is a step or two above the Azera and is bound to be priced accordingly. I really don't think the value of the Azera is going to be hurt to much. Was the value of the Sonata hurt by the XG350 or the Azera?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 460: "Was the value of the Sonata hurt by the XG350 or the Azera?"

    The '06 Azera was a natural upgrade over the '06 Sonata in price point, size and product features. Huyndai would be fools to add to Azera now what will no doubt be available in the Genesis. Case in point is the recent addition of the Azera GLS which does 2 things, devalues the Limited and positions Genesis as the logical upgrade.
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Member Posts: 234
    You people can argue back and forth until the Genesis finally appears.
    Then and only then will we know what the MSRP will be! :D

    There is no way that a fully equipped (loaded) Genesis V8 will be made available for an MSRP of less
    than a minimum of $35K when a fully equipped and loaded Limited Azera is now over $31K.

    BTW, the lower priced Azera GLS was produced for some other reasons.
    One reason was for the smaller less powerful V6 as an answer to the relatively poor fuel economy of the 3.8L.
    The differences between a 3.3L and a 3.8L cannot cost that much less to produce when compared to a 3.8L.

    That is not to say that we will not be able to purchase a loaded V8 Genesis for less than the MSRP.
    After they've been out for while, I hope the Genesis will be available for less just as the Limited Azera is now.
    People have been saying that they bought fully loaded Azera Limiteds in the low $26K range.

    As I said above, time will tell. ;)

    :)
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Azera GLS paves the way, among others, for 4-cyl Sonata across the trims and increased fuel savings for gas consciousness consumers.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Comparing RWD apples to apples on models otherwise equally equipted, look at 300C (8) vs 300 Touring (6), MB E Class and BMW 5 Series. How much does the manufacturer think the buyer is willing to pay for an 8 upfront vs a 6?

    Hyundai will come in well below the $-radar compared with those named above.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Hyundai gets out front to prepare dealers for rwd

    Rick Kranz | Automotive News / May 7, 2007 - 1:00 am /

    DETROIT -- Can a dealer body with success selling small and mid-sized front-drive cars also move a rear-drive, V-8-powered, premium sports sedan?

    Hyundai wants to make sure the answer is yes. The first of several rwd cars it plans to sell in the United States - the Genesis - heads to dealers in the second half of 2008.

    "We know how to launch vehicles, but there will be some unique dealership stuff coming for that car," said Miles Johnson, a Hyundai Motor America spokesman. "This will be different from selling Elantras and Accents, and that is what we are sorting out."

    Johnson said Hyundai is developing the launch strategy. One requirement, he said, will be intensive training for at least one salesperson per dealership.

    That person needs to have "a thorough understanding of the marketplace, the product and where it stands," Johnson said. Training will cover the car's ride, handling, V-8 performance and rwd benefits.

    "We are looking down the road at three or four different products off this rwd chassis," said Johnson, who was interviewed at a Hyundai event near here.

    "The customer experience needs to be a notch" above that for other Hyundai products, he said, without elaborating.

    Genesis is the leading name for the new model. It is being touted as a premium sedan for driving enthusiasts but without the premium price. Hyundai says the car was benchmarked for torsional stiffness against a BMW 5 series.

    The optional 300-hp-plus, 4.6-liter V-8 will offer 0-to-60-mph acceleration in less than six seconds, Hyundai says. Premium features such as adaptive cruise control and a ZF six-speed automatic transmission will be offered.

    Hyundai has not disclosed pricing, but the company says the 3.8-liter V-6 model will be priced under $30,000, and a loaded Genesis will not top $40,000.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Now they say the "3.8-liter V6" base model will be under 30k while the loaded V8 will not be above 40k -- Probably $39,999 with taxes and title maybe $42,000. That latter figure is a little out of my price range. So, this is a little disappointing. Of course by the time 2008 arrives, there could be further "updates".
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Hyundai never said that the V8 version will be under $30K. Anyone with a common sense can figure out that the "under-30K" version is the V6.

    Hyundai is good value, but not that good of a value...
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    A 7er in size, with the V6 starting under 30K, and loaded under 40, that's great value if you ask me.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    Where is this Genesis pricing information coming from?
    Is it speculation or an actual Hyundai release?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    What does this mean for the Azera, selling a modest 25-30k units a year. I wouldn't call that a great american success story. How will a more expensive car do?

    The only way around this logjam is to have the Azera max out at $29k loaded, and have the Genesis start at $29k, and the V8 start at $35k.

    DrFill
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    What does this mean for the Azera, selling a modest 25-30k units a year.

    Nothing. The two wouldn't really overlap.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Is it speculation or an actual Hyundai release?

    Somewhere in between. Hyundai hasn't given us the exact pricing yet but we know ballpark figures would be ranged from sub-30 (below 30) to upper 30 (loaded).
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It came from a edmunds insideline video recording the launch at the NY Autoshow which included interviews of Hyundai staff that said it would not cross the $40K mark.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=97785?tid=edmund- - s.il.home.photopanel..1.*#1

    The bottom line is I think some of you guys are absolutely crazy not thinking this car will be a huge hit. :confuse:

    This is the millionaire next doors ride who is smart with his/her money and doesn't need a badge or cares to have to "show off" their status. ;)

    -Rocky
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