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The Hyundai Azera may very well be the best car for the money, but if money is not the issue, do you think that it the best car on the road, compared to BMW, MB, Lexus, Avalon?
Have you driven the cars built by the competition?
The Hyundai Azera may very well be the best car for the money, but if money is not the issue, do you think that it the best car on the road, compared to BMW, MB, Lexus, Avalon?
Have you driven the cars built by the competition?
Money is always an issue, no matter how much of it you have. Besides there is always a more expensive, better riding, or driving car, no matter what car you own. So throwing the "money is not an object" arguement isn't really fair, IMO.
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
Rocky
Several off-topic posts have been removed by the cleaning staff.
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Mike,
My position is that although the Hyundai cars might be a great "bang for the buck", they are not the "best" cars on the road.
I really enjoy my Azera, but have never fooled myself into believing that it the finest performance or design machine.
http://www.motortrendautoshows.com/newmexico/features.html
Doesn't look like the Genesis will be there, but you do get to drool over the Sixteen. :shades:
I really enjoy my Azera, but have never fooled myself into believing that it [is] the finest performance or design machine."
How about: "One of the best overall, considering the whole package of performance, appearance, standard features, likely reliability and price?"...
Rocky
In my household there is only myself and my beautiful wife. While I could go out and buy a 5000 sq ft home in Scottsdale, I instead bought a 1350 sq ft home in El Mirage. Not because I had to, but because the home I bought was a good value, suited my needs, and made me happy.
My car is the same way. As a mortgage broker I have picked up clients and taken them to sign documents in my Sonata. Never once have I been embarrassed to take them in my car for fear of what they might think of me. I have even laughed quietly to myself when others have told me it was a nice car and asked "What is it?". I laugh when they change expressions when I tell them it is a Hyundai.
So again, yes, for $1000's more I could buy a "better" car. But when you figure a car is only a little better, but costs a lot more, the Hyundai makes perfect sense.
As you say, one can live in a 1000 sq ft home or a 5000 sq ft home.
Both the Hyundai and the Beemer get you from A to B.
It isn't only the badge in each case, it is also the engineering, quality control, materials and quality of labor that goes into the finished product.
In both instances the big house and the luxury car are more fun, taking money out of the equation.
As you say, one can live in a 1000 sq ft home or a 5000 sq ft home.
Both the Hyundai and the Beemer get you from A to B.
It isn't only the badge in each case, it is also the engineering, quality control, materials and quality of labor that goes into the finished product.
In both instances the big house and the luxury car are more fun, taking money out of the equation.
Let's put it this way....
I got a sizeable bonus this year from work. I had a choice, I could have bought let's say for example an M5 BMW with the money from that, free and clear. I opted not to buy that and instead purchased a slightly used Subaru Legacy 5MT GT Wagon and a Cigarette Boat. I'm going to have a lot more fun on the track keeping up 85% of the time with the M5, and in addition, out on the water in my 850hp boat doing 75-80mph on the water.
So it's choices, if one feels they want the BMW great, but the Genesis will give people the option to not drop all that cash and still get a well performing luxury car and have some coin left over for a boat, a vacation, or whatever they want to have "fun" doing.
-mike
That would depend on what you consider "best". One may think car 'A' is the best someone else may think car 'B' is the best.
Personally I think My Elantra station wagon is the best car there is, it runs and its paid for,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not always. A smaller house is more cozy as well as a lot easier to clean. A luxury car is no fun if the reliability isn't there and its in the garage 50% of the time.
Bigger and more luxury doesn't always equate to more fun.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That is until you hit the wrong wave the wrong way and your 850 HP boat is disintegrating as it flies through the air upside down.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Highly doubt that. If you are a 22 year old kid driving one, yeah, but if you've been around performance boats you know your limits.
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
I spent two boating seasons on a small boat station when I was in the Coast Guard. I pulled more than one body of someone who has been around high performance boats from among the wreckage of their high speed boat.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Along the same line, even 'overall value' is highly subjective. As a kid just starting out to drive, the 1998 Dodge Stratus that my younger step son drives has so far proven to be a great value. Cheap to get, fully loaded, decent gas mileage, no repairs, drives nice, and the kid LOVES it. Would he be happier with another type/make of vehicle? Sure. Would it be a better 'overall value'? HHMMM.. Time would have to tell..
Personally I think that the Hyundai Azera as well as the Genesis either already are great values or have the potential to be great values....for some people, most people, apparently and definitely (in the case of the Azera). For some it will not, might not, could not, for whatever reasons.
and I am still waffling if I should go out and get a new car (and the Azera might be one of the candidates) this year or should I wait for the Genesis...and if isn't the value I am looking for then, I can always go for an Azera at that time...
Are we talking about investments, budgets. or high end performance cars such as the market Hyundai is considering entering with the Genesis.
If we want to save our money, there are still some Yugo's around.
-mike
And the all new Veracruz which is priced up to $38,000 with options but has gotten good reviews as a budget alternative to the Lexus RX350 only sold 178 cars in March!! Obviously like I said, nobody wants to pay $30,000 or more for a Hyundai, very few even want to pay $25,000.
Hyundai needs to start a Genesis luxury division like Toyota did with the Lexus LS400, a RWD V8 $35,000 luxury sedan for $20,000 less than the competition, which is exactly the same as the Genesis sedan. Mazda's Millenia, VW's W8 Passat and Phaeton, and even Hyundai's own Azera and Veracruz are examples of cars that bombed because they tried to sell an economy brand car at a luxury price. Mazda had to cut $4000 off the price of a Millenia to $32,000 4 years after its intro and sales still sucked and they had to drop the car. Lexus' LS400 went from $35,000 to $50,000 in 5 years with huge sales. Hyundai by starting a new Genesis luxury brand would sell 3 times as many cars (15,000 to lux owners and 15,000 to econonmy owners as opposed to just 10,000 to economy owners) and make 6-8 times as much per car, as opposed to calling it a Hyundai. That's 20 times as much money for the 1 Genesis car alone, in addition to increased brand/company prestige and increased sales through the entire Hyundai/Kia line just like Toyota experienced after launching Lexus.
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DrFill
The Japanese 3 understand it, and the Domestic 3 don't.
Now what should the Korean do?
2,395 units sold in April.
And the all new Veracruz which is priced up to $38,000 with options but has gotten good reviews as a budget alternative to the Lexus RX350 only sold 178 cars in March!!
Veracruz was available in dealerships in end of March.
"Once again we are pleased to see such a strong March given the continued challenging sales conditions across the country," said Dave Zuchowski, Hyundai's vice president of National Sales. "We are excited to finish off the first quarter with such momentum and feel poised for continued sales growth in the second quarter with the launch of our new midsize crossover Hyundai Veracruz and continued strong performance from one of the freshest product lineups in the industry."
This Edmunds forum started a buying experience forum for the Veracruz on 3/20 and people immediately started posting so it's been available at least since then. Even if it went on sale that day that means it was on pace for only 500 units in the first month! Plus while the dealers tried in vain to start at MSRP, fitzmall is already offering it for just $500 over invoice and others buying it for even less. Expect prices WAY below invoice very soon, another crash and burn disaster from Hyundai trying to sell a $38,000 car with their brand name and badge.
Starting a Genesis luxury division is a no brainer, with the failures of the Millenia, W8 Passat, Phaeton, Azera, Veracruz, vs. the success of Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, how many more examples do they need?
I was at my "new" local Hyundai dealer recently on a minor Azera "Check Engine" dash warning. While looking around killing time I saw my first, (and only so far) Veracruz up by the showroom entrance. On the driver side rear window was a Dearler Additonal Markup sticker of $3,000. I asked the rep what's up with that and his response was "We only have 1 and the owner doesn't want to sell it." This is also a Linc / Merc dealer (Thousand Oaks, CA) I hope the Hyundai suits monitor this Forum, and I apologize for this post not being related to Genesis.
Azera, Veracruz sales tanking
Tanking? What?
1) Azera - a modest gain so far; what you didn't realize last year's figures included sales of the outgoing XG
Azera is a new (first generation) and unknown model, with few advertising spots in between...
Sales could have been better, with some much needed ad spots, which Hyundai is currently picking up...the demographics have been purchasing high-end trims, north of 30K MSRP, so if I was you, I would defn. re-think your theory.
2) Veracruz - the CUV just came out during mid-late March period (depending on dealer allocations), and your sweeping generalization - it's tanking already - oh wow...
Most who have test driven either of these two cars will tell you how good they are. Those having doubts they are not on par with the rest of the class, well, it's time to head out to your local dealership and test drive them. I'd bet you will be impressed.
AND, I hope you do realize Hyundai, just like other automakers, are in this business to make $$$, so forget about offering these products with excel pricing. FWIW, Hyundai still carries a very appealing feature-to-price advantage (value) over its competitors. While such advantage has shrunk somewhat in the past few years, mainly due to increased local currency, with the combination of lower prices from competitors (plus favorable currency rates), justifiable factors include the quality of its products...
Hyundai needs to start a Genesis luxury division
Again, we went over this already. A luxury division does not generate instant success, at least not with the logic you have been feeding. There is no guarantee having a luxury division will have the enough benefit to offset added costs, which can be quite a bit. I am reading Hyundai is currently exploring the possibility of a luxury division but the BH, when it hits production next year, will wear a Hyundai badge. So all these talks about the supposed feasibility of a luxury division, well, is speculation, at best.
Sonata @ 10K/month is about 1/4 of Camry sales
Sounds about right to me with the Azera being 1/4 of Avalon's sales.
This Edmunds forum started a buying experience forum for the Veracruz on 3/20 and people immediately started posting so it's been available at least since then. Even if it went on sale that day that means it was on pace for only 500 units in the first month! Plus while the dealers tried in vain to start at MSRP, fitzmall is already offering it for just $500 over invoice and others buying it for even less. Expect prices WAY below invoice very soon, another crash and burn disaster from Hyundai trying to sell a $38,000 car with their brand name and badge.
Trust me when I say this, by the end of the March, there were a good amount of Hyundai dealers having only one allocation, and most were using to demo. How did I know this? I work for a PR firm, and I have certain information that are not generally released to the public.
You're calling this a disaster by reading a few days of sale and what I would think your biased perception? We have a winner here...
If you basing everything on sales figures, then you are defn. looking at these issues and possibly others from the wrong angle.
Starting a Genesis luxury division is a no brainer, with the failures of the Millenia, W8 Passat, Phaeton, Azera, Veracruz, vs. the success of Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, how many more examples do they need?
Azera/Veracruz failures? News to me.
Lexus/Acura/Infiniti have been mostly success as nameplates, but certainly there were unsuccessful models within, just like every other company. You go through good cycles and bad.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-18-200- 7/0004568563&EDATE=
If there's nothing more to say about the Genesis right now, we can all simply ponder the mystery in silence.
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"What about the future of Hyundai ?"
Rocky
Rocky
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Rocky
Y'all can pretty much have this forum to y'all's selves as this one will be scratched off my list as I will no longer be a buyer.
Enjoy......
Rocky
I only had warranty work done on my car once. It was a very easy no questions asked procedure. Just dropped my car off Sunday afternoon and dropped the keys through the slot and Monday morning they called me saying the car was ready. No issues at all and all this when the car had over 120K miles on it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Y'all can pretty much have this forum to y'all's selves as this one will be scratched off my list as I will no longer be a buyer.
Enjoy......
[Rant]
I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again of every single person who brings up "UAW/American Made" in a car discussion.
Where are your clothes made?
How much did they cost?
Who made them?
I'll bet that 95% of the folks who are on the "American Made" car stuff are wearing clothes made in some sweatshop in SE Asia or other 3rd world country. That is how you are able to buy clothes so inexpensively at Walmart, etc. Why is it then not ok to make a major purchase like a CAR from the same sources? My ancestors were in the clothing and garment business, they lost their jobs because they couldn't compete with the low labor costs overseas, guess what? They adapted, changed and got different jobs. They didn't ask for us to subsidize(sp?) the jobs an blindly support their higher wages.
So I reject anyone's arguements about "American Content" and "American Labor" UNLESS he or she is living completely on American goods, and this includes the GAS you put in your said "American Made" car etc.
Sorry but that doesn't hold water in my book to pick and choose what you are "Patriotic" about, of course you are free to do as you choose in this country but you can't start throwing stones if you live in a glass house!
[/Rant]
I'm sure all of you can find the appropriate topic for your thoughts. If not, host paisan can help you.