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Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    Before we make HYUNDAI the second coming, can they build a best-in-class vehicle first?

    Depends on what you think would make something best in class.

    Count me as one of the people who doesn't see HYUNDAI as a Tier 1 manufacturer in the States.

    As someone who is driving a 2000 Elantra wagon with well over 140K virtually trouble free miles on it you can count me as one who does see Hyundai as a tier 1 player in this game.

    Again, they've had 2-3 good years.

    They have had far more than 2-3 good years. Funny back in 2000 when I bought mine I did so because people were talking how much improved Hyundais were and how there are as good as most other cars. You are late to the party friend.

    Forgive me if I'm not impressed with their track record. They have a lot to prove, to me.

    Well my guess is that there are some who will not accept anything Hyundai does as any good regardless of what supports that claim. Hyundai has proved a lot to me and as far as I am concerned they have proven themselves more than any other car I have had.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Car makers are in business to make a profit. Best-in-class, quality rankings, hp, prestige and image all are secondary to the primary focus of producing profit. Kindly inform me should that primary focus ever change because I'll need to start a company to take advantage of such a change.
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    That is when Hyundai introduced the now famoes 10 year and 5 year bumper to bumper that has literally changed the industry. Oh and their were many naysayers then that said Hyundai would go under. They went under alright. They ended up saving over $100 million dollars they had budget for warranty repairs because their claims came in even lower than they had predicted...why? Their quality went thru the roof. When they introduced that warranty, which really brought out the haters, they were selling under 100,000 cars. This year they will sell over 500,000 and with Kia over 800,000. So their vision and direction, even which was against what the 'experts' said, brought them at least a 400,000 more sales, billions in profits and, oh, they bought Kia too. I think they have a good handle on this car building thing. They also will have two plants on our soil worth over $3 billion and with a capacity to product over 500,000 cars annually.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I see a lot of ambition, but not a whole lot of talent, yet. Their recent Azera commercial (using the Lexus LS) is particularly wanting.

    You just missed the whole point of the ad. Just like Sonata vs. 525i and Santa Fe vs. LR3, right?

    :)
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    In America, the only market that matters (along with China), HYUNDAI is WAY BEHIND Honda and Nissan in sales, or brand equity. And they haven't even started opening a luxury channel yet.

    There are other important world markets other than the US and China. Certainly those are two of most important markets but there are plenty of others which automakers / industry consider to be important (but that's for discussions on the other side and at another forum).

    Way behind? Wouldn't you think that's a bit of a stretch call? The combination of Hyundai and Kia counted approx. 3 quarter of a million units last year in the US. While shy of both Nissan and Honda, understand however, Hyundai has the least amount of time spent in the US, and the fewest model ranges than the former two mentioned. Sure it has its past baggage, which has hurt the brand and the reputation but considering how much ground they've made up, especially within the last few years, with the least amount of experience and fewest available models, it's no wonder many people are taking the company seriously, most notably from its own competitors.
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    This Genesis is far from a can't-miss, IMO.


    How the hell do you know? It hasn't been produced yet.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I'm not the one using HYUNDAI and Lexus in the same breath.

    The only thing we know about the car is it's not made out of iron.

    That's a pretty stange response. You pretty much said what I said, but don't want to agree with me. Whatever. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Haven't seen the BMW commercial. Did see the Land Rover commercial.

    You know, that important in itself.

    I see those commercials and I see a Lexus commercial, or a Land Rover commercial.

    You see it and see a reaistic comparison.

    I see desperation. You see inspiration. :surprise:

    Anyway, those type of commercials are old hat. Pontiac used to do that with the Bonneville, compared to an Acura. That did a lot of good!

    The point of those commercials is "Yeah, we're bottom-feeders now. But we're drinking milk!"

    Hyundai's voice is still cracking. Needs a few more years before it's ready to challenge a Tier 1 company. Maybe 15 years before climbing Mount Toyota.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Way behind? Wouldn't you think that's a bit of a stretch call? The combination of Hyundai and Kia counted approx. 3 quarter of a million units last year in the US. While shy of both Nissan and Honda, understand however, Hyundai has the least amount of time spent in the US, and the fewest model ranges than the former two mentioned. Sure it has its past baggage, which has hurt the brand and the reputation but considering how much ground they've made up, especially within the last few years, with the least amount of experience and fewest available models....

    Agreeing with me, and reinforcing my point. Solid posting, if I do say so myself. ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Hyundai has a fleet of MARGINAL vehicles. Nothing that ANY manufacturer worries about, or is threatened by. All they have going for them is low-cost production, and a big warranty. Big Deal!

    It would be one thing if they picked a segment, or better yet, created a segment, and said "This is where we draw our line in the sand. This is our defining vehicle. This represents who we are." And the vehicle actually made an impact on the market.

    HYUNDAI doesn't have a vehicle like that. Not even close, really.

    If they used Nissan/Infinit, or Honda/Acura products, they'd be better off, because they have a better argument, as these brands aren't setting the US on fire.

    Can they build something that can be described as something more than "decent" before ujsing Lexus' and BMWs names to make a sale?

    Reeks of desperation. Hell, it's something Detroit has done to death, and to no avail.

    They make marginal vehicles, and are at the GM stages of rebuilding their quality reputation.

    Now is not the time to swing for the fences.

    The Lexus LS wasn't just cheaper than the $70k 750i or S420, it was clearly a better car. Better made, better engine, better quality, more luxurious. Better.

    HYUNDAI is not doing ANYTHING on par with Toyota, Nissan or Honda! So how do they open their mouths and even thing of saying BMW or Lexus?

    You have to walk first. And the warranty tells me they still need a walking cane. :sick:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    a Tier 1 company doesn't need a warranty, or even worse, another company's car, to make a sale.

    Some companies actually make money on there own merit. Good cars, good ads, word-of-mouth. That sort of thing.

    Not gonna mention any names. :blush:

    Calling Hyundai a Tier 2 company is generous.

    Tier 1: Toyota Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche.

    Tier 2: Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Cadillac, VW

    Tier 3: Everybody else (Hyundai fits here quite nicely) ;)

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    That is when Hyundai introduced the now famoes 10 year and 5 year bumper to bumper that has literally changed the industry.

    You mean 10 years/100K and 6 years/60K that has literally changed the industry. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I think the Doctor, needs a check-up. :surprise: I'm very surprised you "drfill" are underestimating Hyundai ????

    I think the Veracruz and Genesis, are the tip of the iceberg of great things to come. You know me as a loyal GM, fan but I can recognize a great car company when I see one. Hyundai, has presented themselves as a automobile manufactor that makes damn great cars cheaper than the compeition. They offer a warranty that tells the customer they stand behind what they make and if it doesn't hold up we will back it for a long time.

    Ya gotta respect that, right ?

    Rocky
  • DrFill, did you not get a deal you wanted on a Hyundai you really really wanted? Wow, are you bitter!

    As a former engineer at Ford, I looked at your tiering of companies and started laughing. GM, Ford, and Chrysler do not belong above Honda. Cadillac is a division of GM. Chrysler is simply the worst car company that still sells cars in the U.S. - they would've gone out of business a while back if Mercedes hadn't made the biggest mistake of their history bailing them out. Make friends with a service manager at any Chrysler dealer and they'll tell you what they really think of the cars they service.

    As for Hyundai, they still have work to do on exterior design theme, dealer network, and public perception but there is no mistake they make solid vehicles approaching Toyota and Honda these days.

    GM is on their way back. Ford is still struggling. Chrysler is up for sale, again.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    The point of those commercials is "Yeah, we're bottom-feeders now. But we're drinking milk!"

    No the point of those commercials is that you are paying more for a badge, something many of us knew a long time ago. Its just that snobs don't want to acknowledge.

    Needs a few more years before it's ready to challenge a Tier 1 company. Maybe 15 years before climbing Mount Toyota.

    Actually they are making cars just as good as Toyota for less.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    All they have going for them is low-cost production, and a big warranty.

    Don't forget well made highly reliable and value packed.

    Can they build something that can be described as something more than "decent" before ujsing Lexus' and BMWs names to make a sale?

    Sure take a honest (yes a honest) look at the Azera and the new Sonata.

    They make marginal vehicles,

    If they do then so does Toyota and Honda.

    HYUNDAI is not doing ANYTHING on par with Toyota, Nissan or Honda!

    Well if they are not on par with Toyota, Nissan or Honda then they must be exceeding them.

    I know more than one Honda and Toyota owner that are strongly considering a Hyundai when it comes time to replace their cars. I know a few that already have.

    And the warranty tells me they still need a walking cane.

    How so? The warranty says a lot about how well they car is made and the willingness of the company to stand behind their product. You don't put a warranty like that out on something that is junk.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    a Tier 1 company doesn't need a warranty, or even worse, another company's car, to make a sale.

    So Lexus and BMW and Benz don't offer a warranty? Thats news to me.

    Also FWIW they also compare their cars to other cars. Your statement is ignorant and meaningless.

    Some companies actually make money on there own merit. Good cars, good ads, word-of-mouth. That sort of thing.

    Your anti-Hyundai bias aside Hyundai is making cars that do stand on their own merit.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Chrysler is simply the worst car company that still sells cars in the U.S.
    Way off! Ford is the worst company to sell in the US. So many dumb moves. Chrysler was doing well. They just started struggling.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I see desperation. You see inspiration.

    I can't help you if you don't want to understand the meaning of those ads.

    Please have a read at this article regarding the ads:

    http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003569573
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Hyundai has a fleet of MARGINAL vehicles. Nothing that ANY manufacturer worries about, or is threatened by. All they have going for them is low-cost production, and a big warranty. Big Deal!

    MARGINAL in caps, even? I've tested many of Hyundai's offerings (e.g. Veracruz, Azera, Sonata, Santa Fe) and let me just saying they CAN run with the big boys from start to end, and a lot of people would agree with me on that point.

    Nothing to worry about from other manufacturers? Toyota, GM, to name a few.

    The warranty has been and is a big deal for Hyundai USA. Since the implementation IIRC in 98 was it? Hyundai has been able to trim its repair costs by half, while increase its sale by more than 400% (don't recall the actual figure). Point being, the best warranty is above and beyond a marketing ploy, but something Hyundai stands behind on its vehicles and has confidence in them. Obviously from the massive improvements over the past few years.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Agreeing with me, and reinforcing my point. Solid posting, if I do say so myself.

    DrFill


    Puzzle me in, if you would. I was agreeing with you? :)
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Tier 1: Toyota Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche.

    Tier 2: Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Cadillac, VW

    Tier 3: Everybody else (Hyundai fits here quite nicely)


    I am sorry but that's far from the truth. What year is the above list supposed to be from? Certainly not 2007 nor any timeframe within this decade.
  • gamlegedgamleged Posts: 442
    I'd say the "desperation" silliness has been adequately addressed by joe97 et al... well done!... ;)
  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    My Azera's gas mileage currently is about 15 city and 28 highway. With gas prices rising again (and who knows where they will be in a year or two) I am concerned about the fuel economy of the Genesis at "well over 300 horsepower".

    I don't know if I can afford a car that gets, say, 12 city and 24 highway when prices are $4-5 per gallon.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I don't know if I can afford a car that gets, say, 12 city and 24 highway when prices are $4-5 per gallon.

    Well one way to look at it is lets say you wanted a BMW 545i and it costs $64K. Lets say you bought a Hyundai Genesis "Ultimate" package for
    $39K (probably a lil' high est.) that gives you $25,000 worth of gas just on price diference. I think if you look at it in that perspective you can smile while going to the pump. ;)

    Rocky
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I feel like a Lexus walking into a Hyundai commercial! I get no respect, I tell ya! :P

    Points to ponder:

    1. I don't troll. Hyundai (and you guys) flippantly bring up Toyota/Lexus as points of reference.

    When this mistake is made, I will be there, anywhere, to point this out. I go where duty calls. Period.

    2. Hyundai sells a warranty, and a DECENT car to boot. Outside of this forum, I haven't heard of any Hyundai-worship. Toyota Camry and Lexus LS aren't losing sales, or sleep, over a Sonata or Azera. Tier 2 companies might have more to fear.

    3. No one make CRAPPY vehicles anymore. The days of the Yugo, Fiero, and Fiesta are over. Hyundai doesn't make CRAPPY cars. They are decent. If they are something more than decent, they need better PR than some Lexus/BMW ads to get that out there. This is the first I'm hearing of this late-breaking news! :surprise:

    4. If Hyundai is so scary talented, than why doesn't Toyota, or Honda even, match their warranty? Shouldn't they feel threatened? Hyundai cars and trucks are just as good, right? Just with a better warranty, and cheaper, right? So why doesn't anyone blink?

    5. My Tiers are based on sales, brand equity, and relative market significance.

    I damned Cadillac because they are no better than Infiniti or Acura in they have no flagship. Unless you consider the Escalade a flagship. I don't.

    6. It sounds like the BMW ad is the best of the three. If you are saying you have MORE features, MORE power, MORE, room, and a lower price, than you have a high-value ad.

    Nobody is buying a Veracruz for slalom times or whatever. And the Lexus ad puts over the Lexus as much as hypes the Hyundai. It looks 3 times better, has a V8, and parks itself, plus has a Tier 1 dealership behind it. That's the silliest commercial. :lemon:

    I would buy a CX-9 over a Veracruz in a minute. And so would Edmunds.

    Hyundai is selling a warranty, and seems to be unwilling to sells cars based on their own merit. They NEED other cars to make a case. Which is fine. Everyone needs a sales strategy.

    But I don't wanna hear Toyota or Lexus out of Hyundai's mouth until they can generate their own buzz. That's my point.

    Let's do something original! Let's Build a GREAT HYUNDAI! Something that moves the market, that stands out from the crowd.

    Then we'll talk.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Just thought I'd look into just how strong Hyundai is hitting the market. Gotta say, I'm none too impressed, given the crowd support evidenced here. :surprise:

    Sales last year leveled off, even with many new products in the last 18 months.

    And sales this year are down. Here's the proof, if you can find some inspiration in these facts, let me know:

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/04/03/042382.html

    Forgive me if I can't find a pair of pom-poms. :sick:

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Let's Build a GREAT HYUNDAI! Something that moves the market, that stands out from the crowd.

    Well they are and it's called Hyundai Genesis, but some people refuse to see it. :P

    Rocky
  • Sounds like you need to get out of the U.S. for a while and get a real perspective instead of the watered down one you seem to have. Hyundai is 6th in the world and that is an undisputable fact, pretty good for your definition of a 2nd tier company.
  • splx81splx81 Posts: 23
    I also understand that the US dollar is weakening against the "won" and that will make it difficult for Hyundai to keep prices as low as they have been in the past.

    Here is a good news. Korea and USA have reacently agreed on FTA.

    That means Hyudai will be able to keep thier price almost as low as they used to be althogh the exchange rate is not so friendly.
  • splx81splx81 Posts: 23
    I am concerned about the fuel economy of the Genesis at "well over 300 horsepower".


    For that reason, I really want Hyudai to introduce their decent diesel lineup here. They have offered diesel cars in european and korean markets, and the diesel engines of Hyundai have great fuel economy and power.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    There are plenty of Class AA-AAA ball players who hit .290-.300.

    Doesn't mean the walk into Yankee Stadium and become All-Stars.

    As I've shown, Hyundai is treading water. Nothing more.

    I thought we agreed the Genesis was not a Hyundai, but some unnamed luxury marque's car? :confuse:

    They haven't shown me they are ready for Prime Time, and definitely not Lexus. But they can't really do any worse than Acura or Infiniti has done over the past 20 years.

    My advice: Attack the Cadillacs, Acuras, and Infinitis of the world. Work your way up. Keep BMW and Lexus out of your mouths. Build some credibility. Be smart.

    DrFill
  • washronwashron Posts: 5
    The Hyundai America CEO unveiled the Genesis. I think his comments on both Hyundai and their progress is important if you believe in our Company. Go to www.hyundaiusa.com and click on the lower right Genesis block. The unveiling "video" is excellent. Apparently our North American leadership team is upbeat about the future of Hyundai. :)
  • 54gradsteds54gradsteds Posts: 102
    How could Mercedes possibly be considered a "tier #1" car? Just look at the April issue of Consumer Reports! Mercedes cars, across the line, have an absolutely HORRIBLE frequency of repair record, which, considering the price of their automobiles, is disgraceful! And, before anyone considers bad-mouthing CR's findings, keep in mind that the repair statistics are based on responses submitted annualy by the OWNERS of said automobiles.....It is they who have found the cars to be unreliable!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    1. I don't troll.

    You seem to be.

    2. Hyundai sells a warranty, and a DECENT car to boot.

    No they sell a car, a good car. They just stand behind their products better than some.

    4. If Hyundai is so scary talented, than why doesn't Toyota, or Honda even, match their warranty?

    Thats a good question. If Toyota or Honda are so reliable then it should be no issue to extend their warranty to match Hyundais. So they question is why don't they?

    You look at a long warranty and see it as proof that the product is bad (or do you really?). Most others will see that and say, that must be a pretty good car to be backed that well.

    5. My Tiers are based on sales, brand equity, and relative market significance.

    So in other words its just your opinion and is meaningless to the 6,589,004,197 other people in this world.

    They NEED other cars to make a case.

    You blast Hyundai for comparing their cars to other makes but do you do that for everyone else?

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    As I've shown, Hyundai is treading water. Nothing more.

    You have shown no such thing, just baseless arguments that show you have a bias against Hyundai.

    I thought we agreed the Genesis was not a Hyundai, but some unnamed luxury marque's car?

    I think you say it will be, but yet there is nothing that would say that it will be other than someones speculation.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • splx81splx81 Posts: 23
    This forum has a lot of good information about Hyundai, I think this is one of the best fourums in Edmunds. Folks, keep this up !!, and special thanks to drfill who gave us many arguable posts, making this forum HOT HOT!!
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Thanks, Agent 81! You're a good man. ;)

    You know how I do. If Toyota is the Devil, I'll be the Advocate. Let's dance! :)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Then you missed my link before.

    I'll give you another chance to get educated:

    Here's more information, for those who choose to be informed:

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/03/032859.html

    Hyundai isn't rockin' as hard as you think. They DEFINE treading water.

    Twenty years ago, they might've been a stronger threat. There are many decent vehicles out there. They are just one of many.

    They have a pretty new lineup, and sales are stagnant, if that. Why? :confuse:

    Hyundai is chasing greatness. Toyota/Honda don't need to. They've proven themselves. It shows.

    Hyundai has a lot of work to do. It shows.

    Maybe Genesis is the best vehicle they ever produce. That doesn't make Hyundai a superstar carmaker. Build Hyundai into something substantial. Show me an original marketing strategy. A dealer network worthy of attention. Some cars with swagger and presence. And keep Hyundai on the move while you multi-task.

    Toyota has done all of that. I've seen it happen before. This is not the same.

    They want to impress me? Change the industry in 5 years, like Lexus did, so everyone is chasing them!

    I don't think they can do it. It's that simple. They aren't Toyota.

    DrFill
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    As snakeweasel has already throughly and greatly dissected your post, I just would like to kindly ask you to stop analyzing those ads if you have no idea what they meant, or supposed to project. Perhaps you should read the article I posted in one of my earlier comments, if you hadn't already.

    Thank you.

    And the Lexus ad puts over the Lexus as much as hypes the Hyundai
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    No I think you missed the complete story.

    Yes sales are slightly off in the first quarter 07 (US) but let's see why. By the way, Kia sales are up fairly good amount compared to 1Q last year but you seem to have left it out. Anyway,

    1) New car sales are down overall through the end of the first quarter

    2) The unfortunate scandal and strikes have greatly affected production

    3) Specifically, the Accent and the Elantra, while up, dealers across the US are still plagued by some serious supply issues. Sonata is down because almost a year-long fleet initiative program ended recently (November 2006) to broaden the Sonata and brand's appeal. Numbers will be down compare to last year's as it shrinks such channel. Azera has been performing well, with almost 90% of the Limited trim being sold, and the shinning star presently seems to be the Santa Fe, which is an impressive product and possibly argued as one of the best in the class.

    Twenty years ago, they might've been a stronger threat. There are many decent vehicles out there. They are just one of many.

    ??

    20 years ago, Hyundai just started doing business in the US.

    I don't think they can do it. It's that simple. They aren't Toyota.

    I don't know if you are old enough but Hyundai has become a force in the industry (you probably wouldn't want to admit such fact but that's the truth) faster than others such as Toyota or Honda. I firmly believe all three are great companies but I guess you probably would not. Does Hyundai has its issues to work out and improve upon? Yes, and just like others, Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, etc. At the very least, you should give the credit Hyundai deserves.
  • Taken from a Forbes Article...

    Title: How Hyundai went from punch line to powerhouse--and is shaking up the world's auto industry. (Says it all)

    Last year Hyundai's cars sprang to a virtual dead heat with quality leaders Toyota and Honda in J.D. Power & Associates' annual study of initial vehicle quality.

    The April Consumer Reports found the 2004 Sonata the most reliable car on the road, with just two problems per 100 vehicles. (WOW, sounds pretty clear to me coming from your beloved Consumer Reports)

    Rivals aren't laughing anymore. In fact, Hyundai is now dictating trends that others must follow. (A tiny country like Korea doing all this, incredible)

    raised the safety bar for midsize sedans by including stability control, a feature it will make standard on all its vehicles. A month after the Sonata's debut in Detroit, GM announced it, too, would make stability control standard on all cars and trucks by 2010. (Once again the U.S. is riding coat tails...)

    Hyundai was the top seller in China in January and February, beating Volkswagen and GM. (Are you kidding me)

    "It's a company we must watch out for," says Honda Chief Executive Takeo Fukui. Even Toyota, widely considered the world's best automaker, is looking over its shoulder at the Koreans. Says Toyota President Fujio Cho: "We will watch them more carefully than in the past and try not to be overwhelmed by them." ( I think I read someone on this post saying these companies were not worried aout Hyundai, who could that have been?)

    For U.S. automakers Hyundai's rise is like a rerun of a bad movie. "To some extent they are doing what the Japanese did before them, but on a faster track," says Dieter Zetsche, chief of Chrysler. ( A faster track? Heard that here somewhere and someone questioned that, well here is your answer)

    The nonunion wage rate in Alabama is $14 per hour to start, rising to $21 in two years, versus $7 in Korea. (There is your problem with U.S. factories)

    To other automakers Hyundai is looking like the party guest who won't go home. (Great closing statement)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,602
    Hyundai isn't rockin' as hard as you think. They DEFINE treading water.

    According to the link it says "Hyundai Motor America 2006 - Records Eighth Consecutive Year-Over-Year Sales Increase"

    8 years of increasing sales is not treading water.

    Hyundai is chasing greatness. Toyota/Honda don't need to. They've proven themselves.

    Hyundai has proven themselves too. Just that you will not admit to it.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Regarding the ad, it is a backhanded compliment to the lexus, as it looks 10x better than the Azera side-by-side, and they show the car parking itself, which is one of it's defining, most-sought after features.

    A common question is: "is this the car that parks itself?" Lexus likes when the feature is associated with the LS. This is a good thing! :)

    Lexus will not be hurt by the flattering ad. That's what the ad means to me.

    If you can't see the flattery, maybe YOU shouldn't comment on the ad anymore. :confuse:

    3) Specifically, the Accent and the Elantra, while up, dealers across the US are still plagued by some serious supply issues. Sonata is down because almost a year-long fleet initiative program ended recently (November 2006) to broaden the Sonata and brand's appeal. Numbers will be down compare to last year's as it shrinks such channel. Azera has been performing well, with almost 90% of the Limited trim being sold, and the shinning star presently seems to be the Santa Fe, which is an impressive product and possibly argued as one of the best in the class.

    As I've said, maybe Hyundai should get their house in order before chasing White Elephants. That's what I said. Get your stuff tight, THEN chase your DREAMS. DREAMS is the key word here.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Two Tings!

    First Ting: Sales went up about 60 vehicles! In a year! I called it a sales plateau. Am I wrong, or is Hyundai sandbagging about 20k deals? :confuse:

    Let's remind the people: Sales are down this year, more than 60 deals. ;)

    And my funky #2: What am I supposed to admit?

    They've had 2-3 good years, as far as quality awards and such. This just gets them up to average, because they still have to live down the previuos decade. Just like GM.

    GM has had some nice awards for a couple of years to. I guess Toyota and Honda can just go home. Their reps mean nothing. If I want quality, I better, run, don't walk, and get a Cobalt or Elantra?

    Honda and Toyota have been leading for DECADES. They aren't having a good week in the business.

    And if I'm gonna invest in a company that is gonna have a good 2-3 year run, why would I go to Hyundai and not GM? I'd buy American, no doubt. Hyundai has to be BETTER, just to get in the game.

    They aren't better. Unless you have low expectations, besides a big warranty.

    Edmunds said Santa Fe is #3 in it's class behind Rav4 and CX-7, and CR-V wasn't included. The Santa Fe is supposed to be some big deal, right? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    You just don't get it. Do you?

    On a side note, the Lexus self-parking feature is great and all but then you have the Touran which can self-park much faster than the LS, and you can even maneuver the steering wheel in the process. I've tested the LS parking feature, it worked such a hassle. Personally I would rather park myself and be over with within less than half of the time.

    But...again that's not the point of the ad.

    As I've said, maybe Hyundai should get their house in order before chasing White Elephants. That's what I said. Get your stuff tight, THEN chase your DREAMS. DREAMS is the key word here.

    ??
  • punkr77punkr77 Posts: 183
    Hyundai sells a warranty, and a DECENT car to boot. Outside of this forum, I haven't heard of any Hyundai-worship. Toyota Camry and Lexus LS aren't losing sales, or sleep, over a Sonata or Azera. Tier 2 companies might have more to fear.

    I don't agree, at least anymore. They offered the warranty to get people to give them a try. I'll bet their warranty shrinks shortly, especially since their cars are becoming more advanced and more loaded with features (read: more expensive to fix). People are starting to trust them again, and rightly so.

    3. No one make CRAPPY vehicles anymore. The days of the Yugo, Fiero, and Fiesta are over. Hyundai doesn't make CRAPPY cars. They are decent. If they are something more than decent, they need better PR than some Lexus/BMW ads to get that out there. This is the first I'm hearing of this late-breaking news!

    I don't entirely agree with this, either. While cars have gotten better across the board, there are still cars that I would call crap. Ford SUV's bursting into flames for example. Most Volkwagons and Mercedes post warranty.


    But I don't wanna hear Toyota or Lexus out of Hyundai's mouth until they can generate their own buzz. That's my point.

    Actually, Hyundai is generating buzz. It's not the "best in class" buzz that the teir 1 makes get, but that's not what Hyundai is aiming for. What they're aiming for, and hitting, is the "good-god this car has a lot of features for the money" buzz.

    I would buy a CX-9 over a Veracruz in a minute. And so would Edmunds

    So would I if they were priced the same and had the same features. Where Hyundai is getting their sales is by offering a car that's 95% (and growing) of the competitor in terms of refinement at thousands less, with more features, and a 10 year warranty. They won't (and don't) appeal to the car junkies for who that 5% makes a world of difference, but they will (and do) appeal to people who just want a generic car of a particular type.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,714
    >they show the car parking itself, which is one of it's defining, most-sought after features.

    I can think of few features of technology that are less useless to 99.9% of the population than being able to park yourself. Think how many times you have parallel parked in the last 5 years. In my case I might have parallel parked 1 times where I had to back in between two cars. Otherwise it's zip over to the curb in front of the post office and put 'er in park.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    My advice: Attack the Cadillacs, Acuras, and Infinitis of the world. Keep BMW and Lexus out of your mouths.

    Are you talking RWD sports sedans? Then Infiniti is better than Lexus. When GS and M came out, GS outsold M by quite a margin, but now M has caught and passes GS by quite a margin. G also is outselling IS by quite a margin each month (check the figures for March). Last year G coupe outsold 3 coupe by 2:1 ratio! If we talk RWD luxury sports sedans alone (excluding SUVs and heavy luxury sedans), BMW and Infiniti are one-two.

    Hyundai is a formidable competitor in China, India and, I guess, much of the developing world. But Hyundai hasn't repeated the success of Toyota/Honda in the US. In the developing world, most cars are bare bone, one notch above the Yugo, almost none are RWD v8 luxury cars.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    First Ting: Sales went up about 60 vehicles! In a year! I called it a sales plateau. Am I wrong, or is Hyundai sandbagging about 20k deals?

    Clearly you must have been in a cave and forgotten the whole scandal ordeal and numerous strikes, which greatly affected its production output. FWIW, Hyundai USA has rose its sales at more than 400% over the past decade or so.

    Let's remind the people: Sales are down this year, more than 60 deals.

    See my previous post, and only by a small amount of units. So far the decrease is the story for much of the industry. New car sales just aren't picking up their pace as they have been in the past.

    They've had 2-3 good years, as far as quality awards and such.

    You should really do some research before you post.

    Honda and Toyota have been leading for DECADES.

    You're probably too young to recall back in the days Honda and Toyota in the position of Hyundai's. Back then, no one gave a look to them, and they were proven wrong. Hyundai's got a really good shot replicating such result, with even faster pace, and you sound exactly like the naysayers of the old days who passed on the Japanese.

    Edmunds said Santa Fe is #3 in it's class behind Rav4 and CX-7, and CR-V wasn't included. The Santa Fe is supposed to be some big deal, right?

    All hail Edmunds then since they've got the final say in everything, right? After having had the opportunity, and with extensive time in these three CUVs, they were all terrific product, and I wouldn't mind having any of the three - it comes down to personal taste and preference. While all three shined, Santa Fe came down for me as the overall winner. The layout, features, build quality, and driving experience - exceptional, along with its practicability, a powerful 3.3 engine and quite cabin, the SF didn't just do well in one area, it did well in most areas.

    You should drive these vehicles to find out yourself.
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