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Comments
My point is that MSRP would be a fair price to charge based on the amount of training and work that I think a salesperson will have to do in order to sell this car. Most sales people are going to be paid 25%-30% of the profit over invoice. So you are talking about a max of $750 commission per sale. I think that the expectation from most people is going to be that their dealer and salesperson will be there to accomodate them for service appointments and questions that they have down the road. It's just my thinking that the guys at my store that will be authorized to sell this car need to have some reward for the work that they will be putting in.
On an Internet sale, there is no special work that a sales rep needs to do on a Genesis. The buyer knows what he/she wants, communicates with the Internet sales rep about availability and price, they strike a deal, and the buyer comes in (maybe from out of state), does the paperwork, and drives off in the car. The rep should take a few minutes to point out the key features of the car, but that would be true for any car (just a few more features to cover on the Genesis vs. a typical Hyundai).
Anyway, what you said led me to believe that perhaps dealers would not be permitted to sell the Genesis through the Internet, with Internet pricing. That all deals would go through special "Genesis reps" with special training. That's why I asked my question. Thanks for the clarification.
There is nothing that Hyundai Motor America is doing that will make any dealer handle the Genesis in any particluar way. I am going to set up my two best sales people to handle all Genesis traffic simply to ensure that each person interested in that car gets the best treatment. I'm sure many people have been to delaerships where there is little or no sales training and they get stuck with the guy that can barely carry on a converstaion or even tie his shoes. I just want to be sure that the "elevated" clients that we will be seeing on this car are handled in a manner that they will be happy with, a la Lexus.
As far as the internet pricing is concerned, that is just going to be a dealer to dealer decision. I do not think that any dealer with an internet department will shy away from selling this car via that outlet. The pricing is going to go by supply and demand. It will be that simple. With a fairly small supply virtually certain it is going to be interesting to see how many people are going to show up and sign the dotted line. If there are only a few (Azera/XG300/XG350) then you, as a dealer, will have to compete on price a bunch to move the metal. However if the Santa Fe launch at the end of 2000 or the first of 2001 repeats itself, then you, as a consumer, will have to get in line to get a car and pay for it.
I like to haggle on stuff as much as anyone. Ask the lady that built my house. But hey, as it has been said many times here and other places, this car should be hanging with cars that are $10k-$20k more expensive. Even at MSRP, the case can be made that you getting a heck of a deal. That was really all I was getting at. Do some research here on edmunds and get TMV and invoice data. Make and offer and see what kind of response you get. It never hurts to ask for some money off. You might get it :shades:
With the Genesis being a 20,000 unit per year model, and Hyundai saying that they are going to turn a profit on them at the prices that are at, I expect them to keep the incentives at bay however.
Expecting to get MSRP or over on a high volume model for any length of time is a little silly. Heck, Chevy can't even get MSRP on a Corvette a month or so after launch of a new model.
You know though, I don't think that too many dealers are going to be stuck on MSRP on principle. If a person has an opportunity to record a sale and put a reasonable profit on the books, I think that most would be willing to come down some on the price. Even from the start. Just thinking out loud.
However, when Hyundai moves upward to Azera (failing soon) and Genesis, it is quite a different story. One can talk all day how good these cars are and what great "value" they represent compared to the competitors. Many people can talk the talk, but how many are really ready to walk the walk --> buy a 30-40K Hyundai? Brand factor plays a huge part in luxury car buying (unlike "utility" car in say I don't think you'll have trouble getting MSRP for the Genesis while suppy is limited. For how long that will last, who knows? If each dealer only has 2-3 at a time, prices could stay up for a long time. I remember when the 2006 Sonata and Azera were introduced, some dealers were asking sticker or above for them. But the few "gotta have the all-new Sonata/Azera" buyers were satiated pretty quickly, and prices got more real. Of course, Sonatas sell at 10,000-15,000 per month.
When you pay 42g for one w/ the tech package, does that mean there are no options?
Part number is 08620-2L000 for the Hyundai iPod cable.
How about a few more
Is there any difference in the Calif version vs other states as it relates to how the vehicle is equipped to handle the exhaust pollution?
Big + that with the V8 can run on regular and only loose a few HP
With the 5 year 60k bumper to bumper warranty, does that mean it covers everything except tires and brakes?
Is the Lexicon audio system in a class all its own and really state of the art?
Could an extended bumper to bumper warranty be offered after the 5 yr 60k ?
Any idea what the service schedule may be?
Any idea yet what the main colors are being ordered by the dealers?
Would you know when the dealers will begin taking orders?
Guess enough for now, going to be hard to wait until end of August.
But good things do take time
Here's all the details on the Hyundai warranty for the U.S.:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/global/warranty/warranty.aspx
The first Hondas in this country were smaller than the first Civics, and much much worse. They had engines half the size of today's nicer Honda motorcycles. The first ACCORD was smaller than today's Honda Fit, I'm guessing, and certainly had less room.
The first Subaru cars here were particularly laughable. They were smaller than today's Smart Fortwo, and they were unmitigated crap.
Corollas throughout the 70s and 80s, huge successes that made Toyota credible in America, had bulletproof drivetrains (so long as you remembered to adjust the valve clearances) but rusted like Chevy trucks. I recall saying affectionately for years that a Corolla's engine would still be running as the body crumbled into a pile of oxide around it, which proved true with several editions in my own family.
And while we lump Toyota and Honda reliability together today, they were more distinctly different then. Civics were more like cars you'd expect from a maker of race cars and motorcycles. Even the Civics that helped build Honda's reputation for economy, tossability and reliability were high-strung, lightweight cars that were trouble-free and fun for about 3 years and then could be tossed in the ashcan, being used up both under the hood and in the rapidly rusting sheetmetal.
What's different about Hyundai's ascent is mostly that 1) they didn't do it first, and 2) partly because of that, they're doing it a lot faster.
BTW - I got rid of a CLK320, and test drove an Infiniti, a Maxima, a Mercedes C-Class, the Azzera and some others. The Sonata just had everything and I couldn't beat the price and the sales experience...
As to the Cali emissions, the Genesis is rated as a ULEV II vehicle and (as are all Hyundai vehicles) meets emissions requirements in all 50 states.
I haven't heard the sound system yet. 10 days and counting. But there has been so much made of the comapro between this system and the Rolls system that you would have to think that it would be pretty good.
Also, the service schedule should have a requirement of 6mo/7500 miles on regular oil changes and then a transmission service at 60k or 90k depending on how you read your owners manual. Other than that it should be pretty mucgh gas and go.
The colors are up to each dealer, but I'll tell you one thing for sure. White Satin pearl will be in no short supply. After the first order batch, Hyundai sent out order #2 and said no Pearl White and no tech packages!! Why? B/C all of us Hyundai dealers ordered exactly that since we thought that would look and sell the best.
Almost any dealer should be able to take your order right now. mmmm, so, hard, not, to, ask, for, the, sale.......
Hope this was helpful.
I presume one is a really dark blue like Monaco Blue on the BMW 3 & 5 series.
Is the other a light silver blue or a medium blue like Montego Blue on the BMW 3 series. Is there any web site with paint chips? Thanks.
I do not think that any paint chips are on the web yet. I just got them in my order guide last week.
Have you got it all wrong! I know because I had one.
Can you name the year or anything else about that car?
I will bet not.
1st US Honda car
What do I win?
Now back to the Genesis...
how many V8 did you order or should I ask, how many were you allocated
where is your dealership located?
I am in Southern California
I also had an opportunity to take another V6 if I were to choose. For now, I have decided to leave that one on hold to see what kind of response that I get on this car.
I am in Arkansas.
Thanks
In my area, there isn't a model in the Hyundai line that is sold at MSRP, without rebates and without dealer participation resulting in even further price reductions.. Genesis will be no different.
If the Genesis guru dealer salesperson has to be compensated more for doing their job at the expense of the consumer via pricing, you've just admitted that Genesis sales will be uphill beginning the day of the launch.
Salesperson training is the responsibility of dealer management and Hyundai factory field reps. Hyundai has the added responsibility of training service department personnel writing the service order, and those performing the repairs. Using Azera as a recent example, those factory efforts failed miserably.
2) Crash test data
3) "Real world" fuel economy figures
4) Dealerships having them in stock for test driving.
5) Specified promotional incentives (i.e. lease deals)
6) Owner reviews
I figure I'm at least six months away from getting those things. I can wait.
I agree with you that it will be a challenge to get this car rolling. That's my opinion. Glad you agree.
And since you took that part of my comment out of context, I would like to say again that invoice to MSRP on this car is only about 5%-6%. I was saying in that comment that with the small (compared to Toyota and most domestic makes) markup that Hyundai usually has in their cars that the spread was a fair profit to ask on a $35k-$40k product (of any type).
Please, if all of your responses are going to be "I'm not ever going to pay MSRP for that car or any other, and you're a crook to try and get it........" save me the trouble. I'm just putting some factual information out to the public and then throwing in some inside opinion to try and help out those looking for some insight.
Hope everyone had a great Father's Day!! :shades:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=126520
Assuming that I can get the Maxima or the Genesis for ~$38k (which would be closer to the invoice for the Genesis), the main differences that I see are just (1) RWD vs. FWD, (2) Genesis is bigger and (3) Maxima uses premium fuel only? Otherwise, they both appear to have luxurious interiors and all the bells/whistles.
Opinions anyone?
I am about 30 minutes from them
Did they take over the old AAA building or the Pharmacutial building?
I too drive by them weekly and it never crossed my mind to stop in and say hello.
Here I am jumping at the bit to see one and its right beside me !!
My hunch is that Maxima will be more fun to drive but for those who want the roomy rear seats, Genesis may be their choice.
Nissan Maxima is more proven IMHO, but what it comes down to is really driving the car and see how it handles the road.
All things being equal, even if Genesis has a bit of an edge over others, the resale and maintability is still questionable. So, if Hyundai dealers became snobbish and keep the pricing at sticker or above, then I'll definitely go for Maxima (or a few other choices at the $35k range).
Hmm. I mentioned a little comparison b/t these two in the 2009 Maxima board. I think it really comes down to size. The Genesis is half a foot longer. But that's it. The V-6s are about the same. The Genesis should be only a little slower. But the genesis would be more like driving an Infiniti M. The Genesis would be much bigger inside. I think I'd go with the Genesis. But I've only seen the Maxima from the outside, not the inside.
Sorry for getting off topic.
In terms of fun to drive, a rear wheel drive usually has the advantage.
Who knows about resale right now, really? If the Genesis is as solid a performer as we hope, then it will remain desireable over time, and as such, retain its value.
Also, maintainence should be at a minimum with this car. 6 months/7500 miles oil changes. 1 transmission serive in the first 100,000 miles.
Here in a few weeks we can drive the cars and that will be the easiest way to make the decision.
What I meant about maintenance is the potential repair hassle. When a new model comes out, it often takes a few years to work out the kinks. So, for example, I would hate to have to bring my car in every 3 months to get things repaired.
Don't get me wrong, I am still very positive about the Genesis (hence checking this board), so I can't wait to test drive the car and compare it head-to-head with others in similar price range.
FWIW, we jumped on the new generation 2007 SF and the only thing it went in for was a bad O2 sensor. After 20k miles, no bugs and no problems!
V-6G base = $33k
+$2k for Premium Package
+$1k for 18" Wheels
+$4k for Tech Package
= $40k -- less 7% gets you to an approx invoice cost of $37.2k
Thst is where the difference in price is.
The spirit of what you are saying is pretty accurate about maintainence usually. Two things to keep in mind though. Hyundai sends all of it's new models to Korea for 6mo or a year to try and work out the bugs before they put the new stuff on sale here. And also, each new model goes to the Death Valley test facility for about 6mo for the same long term testing. That usually gets most of the bugs out. Hyundai is REALLY big on keeping little glitches out of their cars right now. They have no hope of turning their brand into a premium player if they have the "new car glitches" every three months.
By the way, if you don't really have to have Nav, you might wait a couple of months and get a base V8 for $38k. You would still get the wheels and the roof and that sort of stuff. Just an idea.
I really have my eyes set on a car with NAV system. As for V6 or V8, I currently have a German luxury car with V8 engine that guzzles gas at an average of 15 MPG, and I wanted to "downgrade" to a more practical car with a V6 engine. But I don't want to let go of the cabin niceties - a guy's gotta have his toys, right?
I think another thing that could lean in the favor of the Maxima is that it's FWD. In terms of inclement weather...the Max would have the edge compared to the RWD Genesis. Some folks don't feel the FWD vs. RWD is a factor, but you have quite a few folks that aren't comfortable with RWD as it gives a different driving dynamic as compared to FWD.
Personally...I don't think you could go wrong with either car. In terms of which to choose...if you want a car with more athletic leanings...get the Max (it certainly has touches of luxury this go 'round to boot), but if you want something more classy and luxurious...the Genesis would be the choice.
Probably at $26K with the automatic.
Plus Hyundai has no history of making hot sporty cars.
On the other hand, you can get a base SE 2009 Dodge Challenger with a V-6 and auto transmission for $22K.
The Challenger SE comes with a 3.5-liter V6, which makes 250 hp and is paired with a four-speed automatic. Other standard equipment includes 17-inch aluminum wheels, four-wheel-disc brakes and keyless entry.
I think I should be able to get a V-6 Genesis coupe with auto for $19K or $20K with a rebate, and I'll wait and see.
You can post pictures on your CarSpace page (see your My CarSpace link at the upper left) and then use the automatically generated code to display the pic in a post. That way it will be correctly resized.
Thanks!!
The Genesis coupe official pricing has not been annouced yet but here is what's known:
I4 turbo 212hp/223hp; V6 306hp/313hp - choices of 6 spd manual/auto trannies, LSD, Brembo, HID - rumored pricing sub 20k for the turbo 4 and mid 20s for the V6, I'd wish there are more affordable RWD coupes out there.
By the way, good luck finding a Genesis V6 auto for 19-20K anytime soon...
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=136
The correct answer is that if you buy the tech pkg for $4,000 then you get all of the rest of the packages as well. That means that the V6 with all options should be $37,000. I was a little confused about the wording myself so I called my district rep and he confirmed that this is correct.
I am getting my information from a person that works for Hyundai Motor America at a pretty high level. However, if he is wrong then so am I. One other reason that I am fairly confident about this is that when I order these cars, I can only pick one option package. If I was having to pay for each one seperately then I should have to choose to buy each package.
On a whole different note, I would like to offer my sincere (maybe) appologizes to this board for my post about the pricing of this car being fair. I did not mean to start a debate about MSRP vs. discounted prices and all of that. I was just making some observations that got taken a bit too far.
Oh, on a Genesis product note. We got a very interesting call yesterday. Our district rep gave us the "your car may be delayed a bit in arriving, but if you take one or two more, I'll be sure to get them to you on time" speech. What this may mean for you guys/ladies is that there may be more production capacity or vehicle stock available than we were led to believe. I am going to guess that most dealers are not taking their full allocation (just as we didn't) and that Hyundai is trying to get the line moving. This may make it easier to order what you want, but maybe a little harder to find that perfect color/equipment package right off the bat.
I really do like the body style and the interior of the Maxima, but at $35-$37k the Genesis wins in my mind based mostly on the larger size and somewhat on the RWD. I still need to drive both of them but that is where I am right now.
My only remainng concern is about a stiffer depriciation on the Genesis vs. projected Maxima. Hard to know since this is year one of the model...