Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

backy

Toyota Avalon Limited with VSC and power seats, $36,275 list, or $32,897 Edmunds TMV. Compared to the Genesis V6 with more power and features at $33,000 list. Which would you rather have?

aneesh

I was surprised to hear the $33,000 price tag but it does offer a lot of features

My major gripe is about the tires-shouldn't a sport sedan come with sport tires?(at least as an option)

The Genesis rides on all-season 235/50R18 or 225/55R17 series tires-i would like to see optional 245/45R18 summer performance tires on both the 6 and the 8 cylinder version.

Also what about more wheel choices?

tjc78

OK... I am an Avalon owner so this may sound a little biased. However, 1st the small power difference will probably have little to no effect on acceleration (due to the slightly increased weight of the Gen)

2: Resale, we have no idea what the resale of the Genesis will be like... but if its anything like the current line up of Hyundai it could be pretty bad.

3: The Avalon is the class leader in terms of ride, FE, & reliability. Genesis is completely new, so its a little difficult to compare except on paper.

4: What does the base model Genesis have that the Av Limited doesn't? Does the base V6 come with HIDs, upgraded stereo, Rainsensing wipers, memory seats, sunshade? All options that will bring the price = to or above the Avalon.

I am all for the Genesis being a great vehicle. However, I want to see a full review and some real world FE #s. I think its still a little too early to really compare it to anything. Just the "first drives" confirm that it will not be a sports car by any means.

My current Avalon lease goes back in less than a year, so I will be car shopping soon enough. The Genesis may be on my list, but, for now there are too many ?s. Already, I am surprised that Hyundai is going to start this car at 33K. That will scare many right away. I tell this story all the time but when I was looking at the Azera I can't tell you the amount of people that said 30K for a Hyundai? Are you nuts?.... 2 years later I don't think the world is ready for a 40K Hyundai. Mark my words, there will be rebates, special financing/leases within a year IF they want to get the volume to 30/40K units a year. If they are happy with 15/20k on a "niche" vehicle than maybe not. Only time will tell.

P.S. in times of $4 gas this isn't the best time to introduce a 375HP V8 car, even if the economy #s look good for a sedan of this size and power. If gas keeps going up the only things selling at MSRP may be Hybrids and 4cyls (but that is a different discussion)

backy

For those who think the resale on the Genesis will be bad and plan on ditching it in a couple of years, as you seem to have in mind with your Avalon, there's always leasing.

As for the Genesis not being a sports car... do you think the Avalon is?

Did you know Hyundai sold quite a few Veracruzes in the mid-'30s? (Lots of "nutty" people out there, I guess.) If they can do that, why couldn't they sell a low-volume luxury car for that kind of money?

If I had to choose between a gussied up Toyota FWD sedan (and one with styling I consider quite ugly) and the Genesis, for about the same money, it would be no contest for the Genesis. But then, I don't own an Avalon so I have no bias one way or the other.

allthatblue

The Avalon is the class leader in terms of ride, FE, & reliability. Genesis is completely new, so its a little difficult to compare except on paper.

The Gen. is new to the US. that's right, but Gen. has been sold in Korea since Jan. this year and it will be 7~8 months after the launch when it wander in the US. I think 7~8 months are enough to find out critical problems and no flaws has been issued yet.

technishawn

Well I am not Impressed I am only seeing two maybe three features "never before seen in this price range" Lets look at what it does not have that other cars in this price range do. 60/40 split folding rear seats, power folding mirrors, tilt down mirrors in reverse, power pedals, keyless entry probably not linked to memory system, 8 way power passenger seat (all of my Chryslers had that), remote start, reclining rear seats, remote power window feature for keyless entry ?, external trunk lid release, wood grain steering wheel for v6 (it would probably just chip off anyway), full size spare tire, cylinder deactivation. This car makes my Azera Limited Ultimate look like grand theft auto at the $26,900.00 I paid out the door. Hyundai is right the Genesis will help sell all other models , especially the Azera. Just the facts... not looking for a fight.

mcc6256

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/28/hyundai-genesis-sedan-to-start-at-33k/

carbunt

I suppose the 700 plus pre-sold Genesis buyers must not count. I understand that some may not find the styling to their liking, but just as another poster, Backy has said, he hasn't driven an Avalon so can't make a judgment, well neither have I. So I am in agreement with him there.

However, I have test driven a Chrysler 300, which is a nice riding car. But if the Genesis is an even nicer riding car than either of these two vehicles, then the choice is simple. I don't make judgments on cars I haven't driven.

Until I have some wheel time with Genesis, I am going to reserve judgment. But the specs and the numbers look very good.

circlew

Not the first year Genesis. Perhaps in summer '09 after the bugs come out and go away...oh, and the MAP (Market Adjustment Price) dies!

Regards,
OW

circlew

Car does look good on paper. Definitly a consideration for anyone smart enough to wait until 2009.

Regards,
OW

tjc78

For those who think the resale on the Genesis will be bad and plan on ditching it in a couple of years, as you seem to have in mind with your Avalon, there's always leasing.

Poor resale also makes for expensive leases due to lower residual values. I do see your point however, and my current Avalon is leased and my next car will be too.

As for the Genesis not being a sports car... do you think the Avalon is?

Of course not... not even in the "touring" form

Lots of "nutty" people out there, I guess

No... maybe well informed consumers. My point was there still are a lot of bad perceptions out there about Hyundai.

If I had to choose between a gussied up Toyota FWD sedan (and one with styling I consider quite ugly) and the Genesis, for about the same money, it would be no contest for the Genesis

Thats a tough call considering you haven't even driven a Genesis. As for being ugly... I can respect your opinion as looks are purely subjective anyway.

tjc78

I think 7~8 months are enough to find out critical problems and no flaws has been issued yet.

Possibly, Hyundai's quality has been constantly improving. However, like I said in my previous post, perception means a lot.

viking967

are available here:

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=136

backy

I said I haven't owned an Avalon. I've driven it... pretty nice, but not worth the asking price IMO. If I were to get a Toyota V6 I'd get the Camry SE, or maybe the Hybrid, and save a lot of money compared to the Avalon.

louiswei

This is what I said back in 5/27 (before the official price was released):

Really? Here's my prediction...

V6 Genesis to start at $29,500 (so Hyundai can keep its promise) and tops out at $36k. The V8 Genesis would start at around $36k and tops out at around $41k.


So according to the detailed pricing/packages, a V6 would top out at $40k and V8 at $42k...

Funny that even an in-optimistic predictor and so called "Hyundai basher" like me has completely low-balled the Genesis pricing. This is really depressing.

So where is that poster who claimed that there is no way that the Genesis would go over the $40k barrier?

circlew

No way year one is a good bet to purchase this at this price point IMHO. BTW, it's not depressing if you never intended to buy it in the first place.

Heck, a base DTS with a good deal of options is $44.6K and with the current $3K incentive trumps the Gen. if you compare that with the V-6 Gen, the Caddy looks real good!

Now that's depressing!

Regards,
OW

carolinabob

1. The Azera Limited is the car most comparable to the Avalon Limited. I looked at the Avalon Ltd. with ESC, sunroof, upgraded stereo, et.al., but it had less than the Azera and cost $10,000 more bottom line.
2. Genesis is aimed at Lexus, BMW, Acura and Infiniti markets. Will have a hard time breaking in as the "badge prestige" is what many people pay for in these makes.
3. I will look at the Genesis, but very carefully and only after it has been on the road for a couple of years.
4. One of Hyundai's major selling points is the extremely well equipped cars it offers for a very low price and with an outstanding warranty. My Azera is much better equipped than a 2008 Acura RL I recently drove.
5. Based on what I have read, Hyundai does not intend for this to be a sports car.

tjc78

2. Genesis is aimed at Lexus, BMW, Acura and Infiniti markets. Will have a hard time breaking in as the "badge prestige" is what many people pay for in these makes.

Yes... that is why it will most likely sell to Avalon/Azera/Lucerne/Town Car drivers and not BMW 5 and Lexus GS drivers. Its just the way its going to be. I don't see it any other way.

I am in no way bashing Hyundai. The Azera is a hell of a car that gives the Avalon a run for its money. Do I prefer the Avalon? Yes, but mainly because of the looks and slightly better handling and interior.

As I have said before the Genesis will be on my short list of cars in March/April of '09. The V6 with the premium package looks pretty good. However, if this vehicle is going at MSRP or above I will certainly look elsewhere. There are too many other alternatives at 35K+ (such as the new '09 Maxima)

joe97

Obviously the pricing is higher than a lot of us first forecasted, I'd blame mostly on the weak dollars.

That said, the uptick will allow the Azera some room to roam.

Hyundai certainly isn't the only automaker being affected.

docrw

Let me start by saying if you feel the need to say "not looking for a fight" it usually means that you are. Its like saying "no offense" right before you say something you know will be offensive. That being said, I will take the bait and point out a few things that you might have overlooked when typing out your mini-rant.

First of all, how do you know it won't have these features? Just because you haven't seen them published does not mean they are absent. I'd be surprised if it did not have fold-down side mirrors or an 8-way power passenger seat (at least as part of an option package). Otherwise, what cars in the $30-40K price range have power folding side mirrors or reclining rear seats.

As far as your other features: power pedals, remote start, remote power windows, these are all gimmicks that are rarely, if ever, used by the majority of people. Besides do any Lexus, Infiniti, BMW or Mercedes cars have these features-no, because they are gimmicks?

Also, not everyone likes the folding rear seats because that limits the amount of sound insulation you can use back there and makes the car noisier. In fact, most luxury cars don't have folding rear seats for this very reason.

If you don't like the car, fine, you don't have to. But stop making stuff up just to start an argument on a message board. Is your life that empty that you can't find any excitement in the real world?

moocow1

You know the one bizarre thing. Most sedans aren't sports sedans with only a few big exceptions. Everyone looking for that sporty and luxury vehicle should be staring directly at the genesis coupe. The genesis itself is obviously more in the inbetween arena where most standard mercedes-benz models would live.

dborth

If I read the English spoken Fountain Valley propaganda correctly, my '07 Azera has a couple of features the "new" Genesis RWD 3.8 does not. (with all option packages)

(Granted, Genesis has features my Azera does not).

1. Adjustable pedals
2. Rear sun shade

I may have overlooked something, and I am sure it will be brought to my attention.

Fast forward a year from today. Genesis rebates will equal or exceed Azera rebates.

backy

Well, you forgot to mention the Azera has FWD, which is not available on the Genesis.

A power rear sunshade is listed in the Premium package for the V6. Power pedals are mentioned on the features list, but shown as not available. That leads me to believe they are available on the Genesis someplace. Just not the U.S. Yet?

technishawn

I said I was not looking for a fight because I thought if I posted any criticism that someone would get their feelings hurt and lash out...omg. This is why I do not post unless I feel it is something important to me. I really enjoy power features in my cars. My wife is very short and uses the power pedals and our driveway is butted up with our neighbors so I have to get close to his truck and I often use my power folding mirrors...... why am I explaining this :confuse: I am really sorry if I offended anyone I was just disappointed and made the mistake of voicing it on this forrum...lesson learned...again. I was really looking forward to trading UP now I am not so sure Thats all...really...I promise...until I forget and do it again so sorry in advance...sorry

tom17

What I find interesting is that there is only a $2,000 price difference between a loaded V6 and a loaded V8. In the BMW/Infiniti/Lexus world a V8 adds at least $5,000 to the price. I think there will be many more buyers opting for the V8 at that price difference and they will be very hard to get. This is based on what I have read saying that the majority of Genesis produced will be V6 (like the majority of BMW/Lexus/Infiniti). Dealers will probably add an extra markup to the V8 and discount the V6 more aggressively.

tjc78

Dealers will probably add an extra markup to the V8

In the days of $4 and $5 gas? The performance difference of the V8 compared to the V6 doesn't seem to be all that great to take the FE hit.

Kirstie_H

We've moved to the "permanent" location on the Sedans board. If you look at the top of the page, you'll see "you are here." If you click on the link that says "Hyundai Genesis," you can add all of the Genesis discussions to your watched items, if you wish to do so, by "watching" the entire folder.

Good luck, and be nice to your new hosts, pat & karen!

docrw

You didn't offend me. I was just pointing out that the features whose absence you were lamenting were either aimed at a small demographic, or generally not found in cars in this price range.

You just so happen to be someone who wants those features. As far as the power pedal feature goes, if the Genesis has a power tilt and telescope steering wheel and power seats, that should make the need for power pedals moot. Power pedals are usually only offered in cars that don't have the power steering wheel. As far as the mirrors go, you can always fold them by hand. The only cars I have ever had with power-folding mirrors have been luxury cars or SUVs costing upwards of $50K. I'm sure if Hyundai thought people would pay that much for the Genesis they would have included that feature and probably a few more.

I guess what Im saying is that if those are the only faults you can find with this car even you must admit that its a pretty strong offering. If you can find a car with all the features of the Genesis plus those you mentioned in the same price range, congratulations and please tell us about it.

circlew

link title

Regards,
OW

technishawn

"I", not speaking for anyone else, just want more features. I am sorry you feel the need to change my mind...ok....again, sorry I spoke up. Can we please move on. The end :shades:

pat

We appreciate your viewpoint, we really do. Keep it coming and ignore those comments that you find less than useful.

That's something we all should do, actually.

jason25

Hey guys! I've been a member of Edmunds for a while but this is one of my first posts. I usually just read the posts and don't comment, but I am really excited about the Genesis. Its seems like a heck of a car for the price. We're talking a 5-series, Infiniti M type of car for 10 grand less. Thats impressive.

-BUT-

I still believe that a lot of people are going to have sticker shock when they see the price of a loaded Genesis. $40,000 for a fully equipped V6 model? Ouch. And $33,000 just to get into one? If you look at the big picture, the Genesis is a huge bargain, but I just don't see too many people paying that much for this car. Then again, I could be completely wrong.

Personally, I'm waiting until 2011 to find a low-mileage '09 Genesis. If its like other Hyundais, I'll be getting a steal. And I'll still have the 5 yr/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. I can't wait... :shades:

flc2006

I agree with Jason 25 a GS OR 5 series would cost 10,000 more with standard equipment, the basic 5 series does not even have leather seating surfaces as standard equipment.

I'm gonna wait until 2012 for a 2009 genesis V8 or a 2010 V6 fully loaded with a CPO warranty.

I only drive two times a week so gas prices are not issue for me.

deeezldoc

I was discussing the Genesis with the General Manager at one of the local Hyundai dealers this week. He told me that the cars that are going to be in the initial launch of this model are already in Portland, Oregon and they will start distributing them to the dealers next week-so I would guess that Portland and that area would see them first. He told me what he thought the pricing would be-pretty much what you'll find in this discussion thread-lots of links here if you want to research. Looks like a great car that I am anxious to drive. I currently drive a 2002 Avalon XLS that is awesome-hard to follow up the ride and reliability of the Toyota flagship vehicle but I am hoping. I admit that I'm a little disturbed at the price of the vehicles after the options-40K for the 3.8 V-6 and 42K for the 4.6 V-8. A 3.5 Limited Avalon is right at 40K-so we will see what the final window sticker looks like for the Genesis. I've been promised a test drive as soon as the Genesis sedans get here-I was told in the next two weeks for sure. The dealers don't have any pricing details but they are all going to meetings in the next week to figure this out so they can speak intelligently to the public about this new product. Let's hope this is as good as it looks-I'm pumped........The manager told me that Hyundai believes that those customers who love the Genesis but can't quite afford one will pay a little less to get the 2009 Azera which has had suspension and other tweaks done to it. Hope this info is useful........

dean3927

Thanks for the link: reads like an objective, expert review. This would be in contrast to the one from Motor Trend that sounded curiously biased - toward the negative.

docrw

You stated what features you found the Genesis wanting, I expressed my opinion about those features. Is it not permissible to disagree with you. I was neither rude nor uncivil. If you don't want your opinions to be commented on then ignore the comments. If you don't agree with what I wrote then tell me why. I won't get upset, I promise.

If you didn't care about other people's perceptions you would not have posted your thoughts in the first place. Obviously, you were expected a chorus of huzzahs. I'm sorry your post was not universally adored but this is a forum based on give and take and sharing opinions. Just as you are free to express your opinions so too am I. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't be friends. :P

gccmn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSIEmKf8zBw

deeezldoc

THE ONLY PROBLEM IS-HYUNDAI OF TEMPE DOES NOT NOW, NOR HAVE THEY EVER HAD A GENESIS !. I work right around the corner and stopped by right after this posted-total B.S. They are expecting some at the end of June. Some marketing genius posted this trying to draw potential customers in-pretty cheezy if you ask me. Looks like the Genesis will be out in a few weeks-good luck everyone.

ricwhite

Looks like that was made by an average high school student in a 30 minute video editing class.

albook

From the looks to the features and the powertrain, everything sounds good for the Genesis. My only question is what will this do with the Hyundai brand image? From what I know it will be a Hyundai, but I see Hyundai does feel somewhat pressed in that area, as there is no "H" on the grille. I see a pattern-from the Azera to the Veracruz to this- so maybe Hyundai wants to go upmarket? This might be smart as Hyundai and Kia are virtually on the same level (Hyundai's cars are a little nicer). But it would take forever for Hyundai to truely reinvent its image without losing a ton of market share. After over 20 years, Acura still isn't on Mercedes Benz's level (but Lexus almost is).

It's said that the competitors are the Avalon and the 300, but Hyundai wouldn't have spent so much time and money adding luxury features like the latest tech toys, rwd, a V8 and sport tuned suspension just to keep up with those. They want this to be a car that competes with the best. And I think this is a better effort than Acura has given in the last 10 years. I'm not sure how this will all play out, but since Hyundai has made such a strong effort, I hope it goes well.

allmet33

Albook, even though there is no "H" on the grille, there is still one on the trunk...either way, it's still a Hyundai.

Concerning Acura...it seems they've never been able to turn the corner. They produce very nice cars, but can't quite seem to reach that level of Lexus or Infiniti.

I don't know what you've read in regards to what the Genesis will be competing against. The Azera already competes with the Avalon, Maxima, 300 and the like. The Genesis is going after bigger fish such as the Infiniti M, Lexus G and if you were to say 300, it would have to be the 300C, but in either form (V-8 or V-6) the 300 can't compete with the Genesis.

Hyundai is indeed doing one thing..reforming the mold of what a car company should be. If you step back and take a look, the only thing missing from the Hyundai line-up is a pick-up truck. They've covered everything from sub-compact economy all the way up to large sedan luxury. It takes Toyota 3 companies to achieve this goal and Nissan has to do it with 2. Hyundai is showing you can indeed get everything from a single company (at this point). However, this is merely my opinion.

tenpin288

the only thing missing from the Hyundai line-up is a pick-up truck

They were planning a truck based on the next-gen Kia Sorrento, but it was recently cancelled. The reason given was the increase in fuel prices. Imagine that!

allmet33

Well...I know that Kia had a concept pick up a while back called the Mojave, but nothing ever came of it. There is talk of Hyundai using a diesel engine in the Veracruz, which might spread to the Entourage as well. If that is the case, the pick up could share that same engine and be a viable option.

tenpin288

Found the article about it...

No Hyundai Pickup

joe97

Already offered in its home market, the 3.0L V6 S-diesel engine is still on target for US release, if I recall correctly.

albook

I don't know what you've read in regards to what the Genesis will be competing against. The Azera already competes with the Avalon, Maxima, 300 and the like. The Genesis is going after bigger fish such as the Infiniti M, Lexus G and if you were to say 300, it would have to be the 300C

No. I know that Hyundai benchmarked the likes of the M and GS and 5 series, but when the media talks about the Genesis' competition, they clearly list the Avalon and Maxima, and the 300(C) and G8(yeah, I'm not sure about that one either).

So I understand the Genesis is well equipped to take on contenders on the more prestigous end of the spectrum, realistically it doesn't compete directly with these cars because of where the brand sits in terms of prestige. And Hyundai just made it to Toyota.

As for Hyundai having all everything from economy to luxury, that's the reason the Genesis can't truely be a real luxury sedan on par with Mercedes (okay, maybe Lexus; nothing is on par with MB or BMW). So maybe Hyundai should move upmarket. And why not? they have Kia, so that can move upto where Hyundai is now.

albook

the basic 5 series does not even have leather seating surfaces as standard equipment.

WHAT?! I'll have to see some sources that back that up. I don't think anything north of the 3 series even offers cloth seating.

I think Hyundai would be wise not to let the price of of the Genesis go north of 45g.

carbunt

albook you are definitely correct about the target market competitors for Genesis, here is an exact quote from John Krafcik, Hyundai's VP of product development and strategic planning, “While Genesis will compete for customers with cars like Chrysler 300 and Pontiac G8, our engineering benchmarks were Mercedes E-Class, BMW 5 Series, Infiniti M and Lexus GS,” Krafcik noted.

Clearly, although Genesis brings luxury aspirations to play, Hyundai is being quite realistic in understanding its market position. All indicators are that Hyundai's brand will benefit from a consumer perception lift.

Source:
Edmund's Autoobserver

albook

Exactly.

sg2k

www.bmwusa.com has it. It has "Leatherette" for base model. Leather is $1450 option.