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Comments
AFTER READING THE FIRST DRIVE REVIEWS FROM EDMUNDS AND MOTOR TREND I HAVE TO ASK THE OBVIOUS QUESTION.
HOW DOES A MAGAZINE REMAIN CREDIBLE WHEN IT USES BRAND NAME ONLY TO DISCREDIT A CAR? MT SAYS THIS CAR IS PRETTY SOLID IN NEARLY EVERY RESPECT AND THEN SAYS "EH". WHY? B/C IT'S A HYUNDAI!! IF AN "ESTABLISHED" CAR COMPANY COMES TO MARKET WITH A TOAL P.O.S. WHY DOES THE NAMETAG MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE?
I TRY TO THINK THAT I LIVE IN AN OBJECTIVE UNIVERSE. IN THAT WORLD A CAR IS A CAR. IT PERFORMS THE WAY IT PERFORMS REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT IS MADE OR WHAT NAME IS ON THE BACK. IF THIS CAR IS REALLY AS QUICK, QUIET, WELL EQUIPPED, AND SOLIDLY BUILT AS TESTERS SAY, THEN WHERE IS THE RESPECT?
THANKS FOR LETTING ME RANT FOR A SECOND. ANYWAY, I AM GOING TO GET TO DRIVE ONE OF THESE ON THE 24TH AND AM LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.
IF ANYONE WANTS ANY HARD FACTS ON THIS CAR, I HOPE THAT I CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THE FORUM WITH SOME GOOD INFO.
Does make it kind of hard to read, doesn't it? :confuse:
3.8V6- 18city/27hwy
4.6V8- 17city/25hwy
I do not know if the V8 mileage ratings are on regular or premium however.
What's the differnece in Toyota's being made Tennesse and a Hyundai in Alabama?
I like the Genesis name, and maybe Hyundai can consider maketing these vehicles on their own nameplate down the road if they are successful.
All the same, this sounds (and looks) like a great car, and I hope Hyundai has great success with it. I know they will if they keep that price under 45g. And the respect will come- soon if the Genesis has anything to say about it.
Ok- that makes since. Because there is no way in- well theres no way I'd pay that much for a BMW and get cloth. I should have paid more attention to that when I bought mine.
My point was simply that they seemed to be selling the product short not on its merit, but on its origin. Said another way, they are being auto racists. "This car is second rate b/c its not from Japan or Germany" stuff.
All I was saying is that I would like to see them be objective regardless of brand. If the car sucks, just say so. If the car is solid, say that as well.
I am going to reserve saying anything until I sit in the vehicle and drive it myself. I have been with Hyundai close to ten years and have seen them bring good ideas to market with less than impressive follow-through before. With that being said, I do think that I am generally objective, even if I am in the auto business.
As to Hyundai being on par with the brands that you mentioned, I think that it is a model by model issue. I think if you drive the 2009 Sonata back to back with the Camry and Accord you will find the Sonata to hold its own with the other two. Also, the Elantra is a very solid competitor to the Corolla and Civic. If you are speaking of brand equity in general though, you are right, the Honda and Toyota names obviously carry the heavy weight.
That whole issue really hits at the heart of what I was trying to say. A car is a means of transportation. That does not mean that you can't enjoy yourself while you are getting there though. If a person is doing a professional review of a product, then they should give it a fair shake on its own merit. Also, the next time you go car shopping, stop by your local dealer and try out Hyundai's competitive set. Kick the tires and really see what the car is made of, maybe you'll be impressed and maybe you won't.
By the way, the hard loaded Genesis will top out at $42k.
Thanks for the reply.
The soon-arrival of the Hyundai Genesis, and later Genesis Coupe, if nothing else, will help to place a greater emphasis on the brand. Further, the intangibles created from the Genesis line should benefit across the brand and its products.
A few thousand dollars and a longer warranty?
A few thousand dollars and a longer warranty?
That is the most humorous and well said response I've read in quite some time.
I also agree that the perception is the key hold-back. I believe this will change quite significantly with the arrival of Genesis.
This is one SWEET car. He was one of the lucky few who got to "live" with one of the prototype cars from Hyundai. He is the ONLY one between NJ and GA. Too bad he has to give it back. Its a shame they send those cars to the crusher when they're done. I would gladly pay the tariffs for the vehicle. This particular iteration had the adaptive cruise control( coming later in '09) as well as some other features he said wouldn't be on the ones soon to be on sale. He was VERY pleased with the car and he currently owns an Azera.
I was very impressed with the car inside and out! Its a tad bigger inside than the Azera and had the heated and cooled seats. The only thing I didn't care for and think is odd is that only the drivers seat is cooled. Kinda half-u-know-whated I think but oh well. I loved the Multi-Media controller. I found it very easy to use.
I think I may hold off a bit buying the car though cause I would like to have the car with some of the features that they wont include on this first go around.
What are the other features other than the adaptive cruise control, that will appear?
The funny thing is that the perception is held by folks that have never even set foot in a Hyundai showroom, much less parked their butts in the seat of a Hyundai car. Anyone that questions me about my selection, I simply tell them to go test drive one and see for themselves.
Hyundai has come a long way and they are headed in the right direction.
The thing is though, you only drop $1000 to go down to the package that brings the 18" wheels without the tech pkg. How many of these cars are you going to see with the 17's? Most people are going to want the bigger wheels and then for only $1000 more, hey why not add nav, the better sound system, etc.
MSRP prices are now listed on Edmunds.
That should put a stop to all this talk of how much the prices will be!
Well, that's probably because we still aren't completely used to seeing such quality cars from Hyundai. I think it will take another 3-5 years for Hyundai to truely break the stereotype. The Genesis will be a huge part od that. And when that happens, Hyundai will finally ge the respect it deserves.
As to Hyundai being on par with the brands that you mentioned, I think that it is a model by model issue.
True, but, in my experience with Sonata vs Camry/Accord/even Malibu (a friend cross-shopped the four) Idefinitely say the Sonata comes in fourth in terms of driving and comfort quality. But a lot of that is because all three of these are newer. When the Sonata is redesigned, it will compete sqaurely. And I have to agree with MT that the current Elantra benchmarked the last-gen. Civic. I think the Elantra is miles away from the new Civic. But I'd say the Veracruz is eqaul to or better than the Highlander, the Genesis obviously puts the Avalon to shame.
The Genesis tops out at 42k? Is that with a V8? I've read it starts at 45k with a V8. Hope thats not true.
As far as the model comparos go, I think we are pretty much in agreement. I was referring to the 2009 Sonata, not to the 2006-2008. With the interior and engine upgrades it is much more competitive. And I'm glad you said Genesis vs. Avalon b/c I think that the Avalon spanks the Azera out of the park!!!
Thanks for the reply.
Aside from all of the fancy features, technologies, and attractive pricing/warranty, the fuel economy was a lot higher than my expectation
A little OT, but I don't agree with the assessment the Civic is miles ahead of the Elantra. While I don't have a lot of driving time in either, I have driven both back to back, and I've found both to be excellent compact/medium size cars (note Elantra is rated a class above Civic in terms of interior space); in other words, they both do their jobs well, practical, delivery more than respectable MPG, and for most, relatively inexpensive to own. Both excel in certain areas but do have their shortfalls.
By the way, the Civic not new; the Elantra is actually newer in terms of release dates
Say what? Come on now... :sick:
As a person that is part of a Hyundai dealer I know it may sound funny, but in terms of ride, drive, overall assembly, comfort features, and power vs. real-world fuel economy, I think that the Avalon is just a superior vehicle. And really, I don't think its very close. Again, just my view.
Now, when the 2009 Azera hits the lot, my opinion might change. I have been VERY impressed with the upgrades to the 2009 Sonata and if the new Azera upgrades mirror that, then I may change my opinion.
And since this is a Genesis forum I must say that what I have seen SO FAR makes me smile. I think that Hyundai (for once) got this one right from the start. I have seen a bad habit in the past of new products being a little "incomplete". I see a little of that with this car (only driver's seat cooled?) but there isn't much to change, and what little there is seems a pretty easy fix. One other thing on that note. For the first time Hyundai is having the dealers order exactly what they want on the Genesis. I hope that they are seeing the fact that this car is going to need to be tailored to the customer's desires in terms of feature content and handling/ride. This also means that if you are patient (read 2-3 months) you can plunk down a deposit and have a Genesis made exactly how you would like. Please oh please just don't make me take 2 base model V6's (no roof, no 18" wheels, no leather dash...) to get one V8 when they come out..............
That's great. Sounds good-even to a 5 series owner.
And I'm glad you said Genesis vs. Avalon b/c I think that the Avalon spanks the Azera out of the park!!!
I wouldn't say "spank" but I will give Toyota the advantage. Not a huge one, though.
Still, I think the Civic is nicer overall. Honda even stepped out of their comfort zone and gave it style. It had to grow on me. But now I love it. It has character now, and the Elantra doesn't, but that's just my oppinion. The Elantra still is a nice car and was really never too far away from the Civic- I know from personal experience.
To some people the "Avalon advantage" was worth $5,000...but not to me.
That's why Hyundai had to charge less. They knew that many would be willing to pay extra for a Toyota and so they had to give the Azera an edge in price.
Noooooooo...Hyundai had to charge less to stay in the niche they have created for themselves, competitive products for a lot less money than the competition offers. If the Azera sold for the the Avalon sold for, that wouldn't be very Hyundai-ish...would it?
These cars should be arriving at the end of August or the first of September. This is about a month ahead of the October date that was given at the start.
No. hyundai doesn't want to have to charge less for their vehicles. They want to - and will eventually be on level with Toyota. But for now, they have to do as you said and offer competitive vehicles for a very competitive price, because they aren't as establishedas Toyota, and most don't have the mentality that hyundai and Toyota are on the same level. However, they are getting there, as, if you haven't noticed recently, Hyundai's prices aren't as cheap as they used to be.
BTW, I visited the dealership in Santa Fe last week and the sales rep had just been in Albuquerque the day before getting training on the new Genesis. I don't know if he actually got to drive it or anything, but he said it was really nice. I sat in the Azera (sp?) and was somewhat underwhelmed. I have read up a lot on the Genesis and I have high hopes that it might be my next car.
...if you haven't noticed recently, Hyundai's prices aren't as cheap as they used to be.
As well as every other car makers prices. It's not like everyone else prices have stayed the same and Hyundai's have climbed over the years. Come on now.
I disagree. I think Hyundai is close to Toyota in all respects. They aren't quite there, but are quickly closing in. The problem is the stigma.
As well as every other car makers prices. It's not like everyone else prices have stayed the same and Hyundai's have climbed over the years. Come on now.
You don't understand. Years ago, the Sonata could be bought for much less than a Civic, and I (and I'm not alone on this) wouldn't pay a penny more. Now, the Sonata is priced much closer to the Accord, and with the bounds Hyundai has made, I think the current price is totally worth it. Eventually, when they are on level with Toyota, Hyundais will be more similarly priced. So I'd say don't get used to buying Hyundais because of the price advantage. But this is positive for Hyundai.
You disagree, but then say the same thing I just said! :confuse:
When I mentioned technology, I'm talking about the difference between the likes of Hyundai's 3.8 V-6 and Toyota's 2GR...as much a fan of Hyundai as I am, I'm no dummy to realize that Toyota has the superior engine. Does that mean that Hyundai's engines are bad...no, not at all.
The years you refer to is when Hyundai was making disposable cars. In terms of pricing, a Sonata Limited maxes out at just under $28K MSRP. The Accord EX-L is at just under $31K MSRP. I think the price advantage will always be there for Hyundai because in the other cars...you pay for the extra options you want. Hyundai gives you a long list of standard equipment and throws a couple of packages that give you the remaining couple of options that make the car fully loaded. Not to mention the warranty...some believe it's a gimmick, but I believe it shows a company not being afraid to stand behind their product.
I do agree...the quality has improved and with that, pricing has gone up, but...not as dramatically as pricing on various competitors.
Maybe the 2nd generation 3.8 will be slightly better than the orginal one. If the technology were equal, then Hyundai products would enjoy the same FE numbers that Toyota products get. It's not that far off that I'm sitting here complaining, but...Toyota has long been looked at as the FE king, with Honda running with or closely behind.
Please, understand...I'm not bashing Hyundai in any way, for God's sake...I have an Azera that I LOVE very much! In MY opinion, the only thing that keeps it from being rated up there with the Avalon is the overall ride (the wallowing). However, by saving $6000, the wallowing was easily overlooked when I purchased and I don't have a problem with it because I don't drive like a mad man.