Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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Comments

  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Adaptive curise control is available in the home market Genesis, and has been since launch. I'd venture to guess it's not here yet on the US model due to the weak dollars.

    The EPA fuel effiicency ratings:

    V6 - 18/27
    V8 - 17/25

    Both ratings are very very good.
  • jeffreidjeffreid Member Posts: 162
    Do you plan to keep the new vehicle for only a year or two or for an extended period of time?

    If you are going to trade in the very near future then the Maxima may make a better short term deal financially, especially if you are going to continue to trade at a Nissan dealer. It seems as though the Maxima customer is pretty loyal, and as such, a Nissan dealer would put some extra money into a car that was only a year or so old.

    The flip side of this is that if you usually keep a car for a while then the value may not be a big deal. In 10 years, you have a ten year old car no matter what. Past that, the Genesis will be under warranty longer, possibly offsetting some potential costs vs. the Max.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    In 10 years, you have a ten year old car no matter what.

    Uh, well, a ten year old Lexus isn't just a ten year old car. Dealers think they can still get ridiculous amounts on these cars. If the Genesis was really in that category, then resale value wouldn't plummet.
  • jeffreidjeffreid Member Posts: 162
    There's a guy across the street selling Lexus emblems installed for only $2500. Seems like he's always busy.

    Lexus new=$40k-$50k ish
    Lexus at 10yrs and 100,000 miles- $10000 (just a guess)
    $30k- $40k depreciation cost. Divided by 120mo=$250mo-$333mo

    Genesis new= $33k-$42k
    Genesis at 10yrs and 100,000 miles- $3500 (thinking this is low, but who knows)
    $29.5k- $38.5k depreciation cost. Divided by 120mo= $245mo-$321mo

    Which one cost more per month to drive and which one cost more over the 10 years? Money is money. ;)
  • akumaakuma Member Posts: 70
    i was looking at the pricing/options on the following link and was a bit confused :confuse: .

    http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=136

    the base V6 is $33,000. the base V8 is $38,000. the base V8 is equipped like a premium plus packaged V6 (supposedly $36,000, or is it $34,000 since only one package can be picked :confuse: ), but also includes such niceties as:

    "ultra"-premium leather
    power sunshade
    electrochromatic outside mirrors
    Illuminated scuff plates
    chrome body-side moldings
    wooden trimmed steering wheel

    let alone the obvious engine upgrade and an arguably better transmission (ZF instead of Aisin).

    all those "extra" things are probably worth around $1,000, so the engine/tranny upgrade is basically only $1,000 more, or only about $2,000 more than the premium packaged V6 with the 17 inch wheels/tires. this makes the base V8 look like a great value compared to the premium plus or even premium packaged V6.

    where things get really strange is with the tech package. for just $1,000 more ($37,000), you can get:

    navigation system/backup camera
    HID auto-leveling headlights with auto-cornering
    cooled driver seat
    upgraded Lexicon audio system (17 speakers, 528 watts, logic 7)
    some other stuff integrated with the nav (driver info system, multimedia controller)
    parking sensors (redundant with the backup camera, at least the rear sensors)

    separately, all that stuff might be worth around $2,500 or so, but not the $4,000 that you need to pay to get it on the V8. a nice aftermarket GPS might cost around $500 (no backup camera though), a decent HID setup will also be around $500, but probably no auto-cornering. does the 15 speaker Lexicon really need to be upgraded? the cooled driver seat is nice for hot summers, but again it's just the driver's seat which is kind of half-a$$ed, no pun intended.

    so it appears the best value is the loaded V6 for $37,000 or the base V8 for $38,000. that is unless you can do without the Lexicon audio system and moonroof, which is basically what the premium package is (i guess you also do get rain sensing wipers and auto defogging windshield, and a leather wrapped dash). in that case you can pay $33,000 for a base V6, but then you get a Genesis that's equipped comparable to a limited Sonata without navigation, for around $10,000 more (tmv pricing). you do get a smart key and an acoustic windshield which is not available on the Sonata, but you don't get a moonroof on the base Genesis either. a much better equipped limited Azera with ultimate package, even with navigation is around $3,000 less (again tmv pricing). don't get me wrong, i'm sure the Genesis is a better car. it has a better transmission, better Lambda engine, probably better interior and paint, rear wheel drive with better handling. but compared to the lesser Hyundai offerings, it doesn't really provide better value.

    if that's how the pricing/options are working out, what to do?
  • gensungensun Member Posts: 1
    jeffreid, thanks for your posts. It really helped me clarify ambiguities regarding the Genesis pricing. The only thing that I'm still confused, though, is that the technology package for both V6 and V8 has the same features at the same price ($4,000). But it sounds like you're suggesting that the tech package for V6 includes premium plus package as well (so the loaded V6 has an MSRP of $37,000). Would it be so that Hyundai gives $3,000 worth of package for free? It seems not reasonable to assume that be the case. Again, I appreciate your insider's comments on pricing et al.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I don't think it's fair to compare it like that. It's kind like justifying a GS over an ES, or an Avalon....

    Yes, the Genesis is more expensive than the Azera, and much more when compared to the Sonata - as it should be. At which point is that premium not worth the upgrade, well, that, everyone may have a different opinion.

    FWIW, the pricing range for the Genesis is great to me. I don't know if I can find a more competitive RWD luxury/sport (more luxury) sedan for what the price it's asking for.

    The other thing that works well with the pricing - it doesn't step on the toes of the Azera. Like most automakers, there is a natural progression with Hyundai's line in terms of product and price.

    If nothing else, the Genesis will bring the intanible goods to the brand and the rest of the line, it provides empahsis on the brand - it's not a Hyundai Genesis, rather, the Genesis, from Hyundai ;)
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Nice write-up - more details on the Genesis + interesting Hyundai tidbits:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/17/let-there-be-technology-whats-under-hyundais-- - new-genesis-seda/
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,058
    it's not a Hyundai Genesis, rather, the Genesis, from Hyundai

    That "naming technique" was tried once before on the "Aurora by Oldsmobile".... we all know where they are now. ;)

    All joking aside, this vehicle looks great on paper. I am looking forward to some of my local dealers getting one, so I can check it out in person. I am not looking to buy (lease) until around March next year but my short list is the Genesis V6, and the '09 Max. If all else fails I'll lease another Avalon as it has been a great car but the '09 isn't really any different than my '06.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • gary045gary045 Member Posts: 81
    Well joe, I wouldn't buy a Challenger either.
    I was making a point about how car makers like to jack up prices on stuff they think people "gotta have" like HP.

    I find it kinda funny that Dodge would charge $18K on top of the base price of $22K for the SRT8 "Hemi eng" gas guzzling model.
    And it appears 11 thousand people in a country of 300 million would want to buy it for $40K and keep it in their garage as a collector or whatever with gas at $4 or better.
    But in order to sell enough to make the Challenger worth making, Dodge hands out a basic model for $22K...lol

    The SRT8 comes with the 6.1-liter Hemi V8 that pumps out 425 hp. Five-speed automatic and six-speed manual transmissions are available. Standard equipment includes 20-inch forged aluminum wheels and functional hood scoops. The race-inspired interior has reconfigurable displays that show 0-to-60-mph and lap times.

    Dodge launched the Challenger this year as an '08 with limited availability--only 6400 were available, outfitted as SRT8s--and the automaker got more than 11,000 requests to buy the car.

    I like the progress and work Hyundai has done over the yrs, but they need to prove themselves a little more in the muscle car/ luxury sector before they jump out with products with no history and want to charge premium prices.

    When Hyundais have the resale value of say a Honda, then they can jack up prices all you want. Till then, don't get ahead of yourself.............
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I like the progress and work Hyundai has done over the yrs, but they need to prove themselves a little more in the muscle car/ luxury sector before they jump out with products with no history and want to charge premium prices.

    Agreed for the most part. Hyundai has to continue to do everything they have done and more to have a stronger establishment of the brand in the US market, for example. The Genesis lineup (coupe and sedan), Veracruz, Azera are great starts laying down the foundation it needed, but still a lot of work ahead.

    In terms of charging premium pricing, I am not sure if I'd agree. We were on the subject of the Genesis coupe, I believe? Well, the rumored pricing on the coupe (i.e. sub-20 for the turbo 4; and mis 20 on the V6), I don't agree it is at a premium - actually, very affordable, as a matter of fact. Even the Genesis sedan, is almost untouchable for everything it offers.
  • akumaakuma Member Posts: 70
    actually, my main point was that the options pricing (in particular tech package with V6 and V8) was unusual in that the V8 already was equipped like a premium plus packaged V6, but priced only about $2,000 more than the V6 with said package, but priced $5,000 more than the tech packaged V6. :confuse:

    i already said that the base V8 was a great value. there is no V8 rear-wheel sedan that can touch it except maybe Pontiac G8. the 300C SRT-8 is a few thousand more with crummy gas mileage 13/18, and is probably worse at both luxury and sport, but it still sold over 100,000 units a year for most of its cycle (the whole 300C line).

    my comparing the Genesis (V6) with Sonata and Azera is that they are all full sized cars within the same company and still within $10,000 of each other. all 3 cars will be at the same dealership. the Lexus GS is a little over $10,000 than ES but equipped better: HIDs, power folding, electrochromatic, reverse tilting mirrors, multi-level heated seats, better stock stereo, bluetooth, etc. the base GS is also equipped better than the Avalon at any trim, although those two cars are more different (dimensions, purpose) than Genesis and Sonata. actually the Avalon limited is better equipped than even the base Genesis V8. that was more my point with the comparison. not that Sonata shoppers will strongly consider Genesis or vice versa, but that shouldn't the Genesis (a true luxury sedan even in base V6 trim) have more separation (feature content) between it and a family sedan like the Sonata limited?

    as for Azera, the only options the tech packaged V6 Genesis will appear to have over it are the Lexicon system, backup camera, parking sensors, ventillated driver's seat, HID lights, keyless ignition, leather wrapped dash, auto defogging acoustic windshield, but it still won't have power folding mirrors, power adjustable pedals, or sunshade(?). but who knows? maybe there are all these other neat features on the Genesis that hasn't been disclosed. what Hyundai needs is for the 3.8 Genesis to be very different from the 3.8 Azera as their pricing (MSRP) whether fully loaded or base is only about $4,000 apart although it can get as little as $1,000 when comparing loaded Azera with base Genesis or as much as $8,000 when comparing loaded Genesis with base Azera..

    my guess is that the 3.8 Genesis doesn't drive that differently than the Azera at 7/10ths driving, or most normal driving. only the V8 gets upgraded brakes for seemingly no extra cost. yet another reason to get the V8. all 3 cars will probably have similar acceleration and braking numbers. this isn't a diss to the Genesis, but more like praise to the Sonata and Azera. more the Sonata than Azera, because it looks like Hyundai has neglected the Azera. it wasn't refreshed at all. the GLS with the 3.3 lambda only makes 234 hp compared to Sonata's 249 with worse mileage at 18/26 compared to Sonata's 19/29. and the Azera actually costs more despite being equipped worse. no leather, no moonroof, heated seats, premium stereo, etc. :confuse: but that's another story for another post.

    it could come down to marketing. make the Genesis the much more desirable car, and even potential Azera customers step up to the Genesis. the ones that can't afford the Genesis or aren't willing for whatever reason to pay around $40,000 out the door for a Hyundai can buy a $20,000 Sonata instead or stick with the Azera. the halo effect, so to speak.

    but again, who really knows what kind of customers will buy the Genesis? maybe it will be Sonata/Azera owners looking to move up. or Avalon/300C customers that want better value, luxury or power, handling, or something. or maybe even Infiniti/Lexus/Acura/Volkswagen/Volvo customers voting with their dollars. the unthinkable might even happen and a BMW or Mercedes owner trades in their comparably overpriced vehicles.

    didn't mean to get so long winded.
  • deeezldocdeeezldoc Member Posts: 23
    Jeffreid-First let me thank you for being so helpful and trying to help those of us who are hopeful that this car is as good as it seems. I have gotten to know the local Hyundai dealer here in Arizona pretty well-and to be honest-they don't understand the pricing for options. The manager told me that premium, premium plus and tech package could all be ordered separate and they did not depend on each other. If the purchase of a 4K tech package gets me premium and premium plus this is a great deal-but my dealer told me that this isn't the way it works. The district rep is advising him-seems like there needs to be something written up that defines this better. There are package numbers associated with these options that the dealers can't explain- :shades: so of course they can't explain to potential buyers. Is the wording that bad on the options sheet and the 4K buys you all the subordinate packages ? What do you expect the timeframe for a fully loaded V8 to be available ?

    Thanks Again
  • rotaryrotary Member Posts: 71
    Let alone BMW or Mercedes.

    So says an apparent fair and balanced review by Popular Mechanics.

    The Bottom Line
    But that’s the rub with the Genesis. The Genesis is a good car that gets nearly to “luxury” levels. But it’s lacking the fit, finish and quality control one expects from the leaders in the segment. Considering we’re even comparing this Hyundai with the leaders like BMW and Lexus, that says a lot. We suspect Hyundai will reach those same levels in due time.


    http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4265762.html

    Don't shoot the messenger. Maybe they're right, or maybe they're wrong.

    Oddly enough, the Genesis may boost Azera sales, if they price are aggressive with the Azera in an increasingly cost-competitive field.
  • carbuntcarbunt Member Posts: 40
    Excerpted from Popular Mechanics
    The Bottom Line:

    But that’s the rub with the Genesis. The Genesis is a good car that gets nearly to “luxury” levels. But it’s lacking the fit, finish and quality control one expects from the leaders in the segment. Considering we’re even comparing this Hyundai with the leaders like BMW and Lexus, that says a lot. We suspect Hyundai will reach those same levels in due time.

    Of all the reviews and previews of Genesis that I have read, this publication was the most lukewarm and falsely nitpicky. Their assertion that "fit and finish" wasn't up to par is awfully judgmental, awfully badly biased. Their claim is not supported by the vast majority of reviewers. At least not according to AutoBlog, Edmunds, Winding Road, Automobile, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc. that wouldn't compare favorably to BMWs 530 series, or Mercedes E series or Lexus' GS.

    Certainly, there are some legitimate critiques of the driving characteristics of Genesis, but fit and finish isn't one of them. Having read the entire review from PM and knowing their Hyundai bashing history, there should be an *asterisk* labeled 'bias' checked off against them.
  • deeezldocdeeezldoc Member Posts: 23
    The road test and review they gave looks pretty fair to me. They did bash the Genesis a bit about the tolerance, but also stated that they were driving a pre-production model and that Hyundai would probably work any shortcomings out in time. I read the article and if I knew nothing else about the Genesis, I would still go and consider one based on their article. A lot of these journalists are way too picky and anal retentive-in my opinion. Looks like they may definitely be leaning toward Japanese and German luxury cars-they probably get freebies and goodies from the established luxury car makers and don't want that to dry up....just my opinion.
  • allthatblueallthatblue Member Posts: 29
    it seem to be improper use of "just" to call that kind of difference between Genesis and Maxima "Just".

    RWD vs. FWD / Size / Fuel Economy are the most critical factors of car specification.
  • jeffreidjeffreid Member Posts: 162
    Okay, lets start with the option package situation. I agree that the wording on the option packages is REALLY confusing and that the pricing makes even less sense. However, if your local dealer told you that you can order the packages seperately, and that do not depend on each other, then they are either not paying attention, or you got in touch with someone that really isn't that involved with this car.

    There are two things here that can not be correct. #1, when you actually order this car through Hyundai's DCS order system, you only get ONE option package. You have to choose pkg, 1,2,3, or 4. You can not pick more than one. Second, on the pricing guide, it clearly states that as you move up the option ladder that each successive package requires the previous package. Point is , you could not get a tech package without the wheels or the moonroof.

    Now, as I said before, my district rep told me that a V6 with tech would be $37000. He said that you do not have to pay for each package like they are listed. Such as $2000+$1000+$4000, which would make the car $40000. I ordered a car like this and thought that it would be $37000 when I did. Now, if my guy is wrong, then so am I, so I am sorry in advance if what I am telling you is wrong.

    The V8 cars should be here in late August or September. It is usually a 2.5-3 month turnaround from the time you take a car until it hits your lot. We ordered our V8 car a week or two ago.

    I get to drive the car in 5 days!!!
    :shades:
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    I think we'll need to wait until an actual car is delivered with pricing on the sticker. It could be either way. The fact that you can only enter ONE package really doesn't mean anything. If all previous packages are dependent upon the latter, the system could just "automatically" put the packages in. For example, If you enter the technology package for $4000, the system could automatically put in the other packages -- $2000 + $1000. That's why it's only necessary to enter ONE package.

    Other reasons why I doubt that the $4000 package includes the other packages of $2000 and $1000 in that price is that the technology upgrades certainly are worth much more than $1000. And if you look at the V8 model where only the tech package is offered (because the 38K starting price includes the other packages as "standard"), it is a full $4000. Why would the tech package for the V6 be $1000 and for the V8 be $4000? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    I'd be very pleasantly surprised if the $4000 package includes all other packages in that price. That would make the final price 37K instead of 40K. It would also make the price differential between the V6 and the V8 at 5K -- which is a lot considering the performance difference is probably not very much.

    If I were betting on it, I'd have to think that the $4000 tech package does not include the other packages at that price point. I think the retail price when all packages are added will be close to 40K, not 37K.

    We'll see.
  • rv65rv65 Member Posts: 1,076
    Hyundainews.com says it comes with the premium package. Hyundainews is the official media website for hyundai. Also the tech package bypasses the premium package. It upgrades some of the premium package features and adds the tech features. Also by adding the premium plus on the v6 it would be a better deal. Hope this helps.
  • tom17tom17 Member Posts: 134
    I get to drive the car in 5 days!!!

    Does this mean that you are going to have cars hitting the lot in less than a week?
    Or do you have a special dealer only event you are going to where you will get to drive the car?

    I am also concerned that you only ordered one car with the V8.
    My local dealer sells up to 500 new Hyundai's a month.
    To only order one V8, I dont understand.
    Do you expect that no one will be willing to pay the $40K+ for it?
    It is at least $10K less than anything comparable.
    I would think you could sell at least one a day.

    Thanks.
  • jeffreidjeffreid Member Posts: 162
    Hey Tom. Well, I'll try to answer all of that. No, I will not have cars on the lot next week, and so yes, I will be going to a dealer-only event to see and drive the car.

    Now if your local dealer is selling up to 500 new Hyundais a month then I would assume you are in New York or Las Vegas. If I was Planet Hyundai or Atlantic Hyundai (two of the best candidates for your 500+ club) I would be taking several more of the cars for sure. However, even as the largest volume dealer in my three state area, I am still selling mostly Sonata's, Elantra's, and Santa Fe's. I just really don't want to pay the floorplan interest on a $40k car if it sits here for 400 days.

    I agree that the $10k savings on this car is AWESOME. Also, if the car is as quiet and smooth as we hear, the cost difference may just be icing on the cake. However, after we stocked 20-25 XG300's when they first hit the ground and then watching the Azera flounder on our lot, we are simply choosing to be a little careful.

    Lastly, I only had one or two V8's allocated to me, so even if I wanted more, I would have been out of luck. Also, if we have demand for the car the says that we need to have a large inventory, then believe me, we'll get it as quickly as possible!!
  • gary045gary045 Member Posts: 81
    However, after we stocked 20-25 XG300's when they first hit the ground and then watching the Azera flounder on our lot, we are simply choosing to be a little careful.
    ***************
    That's the point I'm making. If people balked at paying up for a luxury Azera, why would they pay $40K for a Genesis with no history of being an outstanding car they just have to have with no "look at me badge" on the hood? Looks like another flounder in the making to me.

    I think the Genesis V-6 coupe will sell much better if it's priced right, and the car mags don't trash it too bad when they check it out.
  • flatibbyflatibby Member Posts: 28
    I wonder if it is at all possible to special order the car with the Genesis Wing Badge instead of the "H"..?? I would'nt mind waiting for it to be made just for that reason. Otherwise I hope Hyundai Corp is reading this and I'm sure everyone agrees that this car should be badged with a Genesis Wing like the KDM and make it standard around model 2010 or 2011... :shades:
  • gccmngccmn Member Posts: 11
    $37K for a V6? What happened to a starting price of under $30K?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    $30K was based on the 3.3L V6, which the trim Hyundai Motor America didn't want, I believe. Also, under 30K creates too much of an overlap with the Azera, which could cause cannibalization. The other reason, almost for certain, the weak dollars - car prices have gone up across the board.

    $37K is the price of a well-appointed/loaded V6 version. V6 starts at $33K (MSRP), with freight included - very well-equipped already, IMO.
  • sg2ksg2k Member Posts: 19
    Korean Won is not that strong compared to US dollar. I think Genesis price was set a bit higher than expected because Hyundai wanted to get rid of cheap car/value oriented car company image.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    The "H" is already not on the front of the car. What else could hyundai do? They have to raise their brand image somehow. Not sure if they applies, but Lexus engines have toyota printed on them.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    but Lexus engines have toyota printed on them

    Uh what?

    I just popped the hood and all I see was the "L" logo...

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    Need I go on?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Alright. I'll admit it. I've heard that but never seen it for myself. But it doesn't sound like something completely made up. I'd bet there's some Lexus engine with Toyota on it. Maybe it was the case on older models. Or maybe you just have to take some stuff apart to see it.
  • jeffreidjeffreid Member Posts: 162
    Well, this is about the 1,458th time that I've had this conversation with my salespeople, my general manager, my wife, my goldfish (okay, so I don't have fish).

    There is one huge difference between the Azera and the Genesis that I think could make this car sell better.

    The Genesis actually has a number of things about it that make people (real car people) excited about seeing and driving it. This car has a 375 horse V8. It is rear wheel drive. This car has a real luxury interior, not a close-to-lux interior. This car has almost all of the luxury tech that one wants to want (nav, auto headlights, HID's, etc.). Edmunds says that this car is one of the quietest that they have ever tested. When you have people really excited about a car then it becomes something that they WANT, not something that we have to SELL them. Seriouosly, don't most of us that are in the market for a 4 door sedan WANT a powerful (yet still fuel efficient) engine, a responsive tranny, a high grade interior, a quiet ride, and lots of fun buttons to push?

    When you take out an Azera for a test drive, you are selling it on being a good car, that is almost as good as it's competitors at a slightly lesser price. I feel like I can sell a Genesis because it is equal to it's competitors (or better, from what I read thus far) and is tens of thousands of dollars less.

    With all of that said, I still think that exercising some caution is warranted. Let's be real, our economy isn't exactly thriving right now. Anything higher in price makes people a little nervous. Now, there may be lots of folks that are smart and see that this is a great deal, but to take a line from Men In Black, "A person is smart, people are dumb" or something like that. I need to see that a large number of people are really going to plunk down $33k-$42k on a Hyundai car before I order a bunch of them regardless of how good of a deal the car really is. What can I say, I'm a realist.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    The real test will be after the "honeymoon phase" is over and the Genesis settles into the marketplace. I'd like to see about a year from now how the hype of the Genesis manifests itself in the real world. I remember all of the hype surrounding the Azera. It certainly IS a nice car. I've had mine now for 2.5 years. But it's about as common as an elephant on the freeway. In fact, I have only seen ONE other Azera on the road in the last 2.5 years and I live in large metro-city area.

    I certainly think the Genesis will spark a lot of interest initially. In fact, they may be short supply. The Azera was in really short supply as well at first. In fact I had to travel to a different city to buy my Azera. But now the Azera is pretty much forgotten and it's such a weak force in the marketplace that its competitors have absolutely nothing to worry about. In fact, they laugh at the Azera.

    Once things settle down, will the Genesis just turn into another Azera? Will it be pretty much forgotten a year or so from now? Will its competition actually be worried some or will they be laughing at the Genesis just like they do with the Azera?
  • gary045gary045 Member Posts: 81
    But now the Azera is pretty much forgotten and it's such a weak force in the marketplace that its competitors have absolutely nothing to worry about. In fact, they laugh at the Azera.

    Once things settle down, will the Genesis just turn into another Azera? Will it be pretty much forgotten a year or so from now? Will its competition actually be worried some or will they be laughing at the Genesis just like they do with the Azera?
    *****************************
    Once again that's my point. Hyundia wants to play with the big boys, yet hasn't proven itself in sports cars or the luxury level.
    Sure they made their name in great value economy cars that now last a good while and backed up with an excellent warranty. But the resale value still lags. I'd think by now that should improve.
    But I think Hyundia is getting ahead of themselves jumping from the Azera to now the Genesis luxury segment.

    In the $40K+ area people are more concerned about the proven brand or badge, and want to show up at work or the cookout in something they can be proud of and will evoke envy.
    And not spending their time trying to explain to people why they spent $40K on a Hyundai...lol Defending Hyundai's progress and feeling shame is not what these people are about.

    On the plus side, in this debt ridden high gas cost economy, the Elantra and Sonata are doing doing very well indeed......
  • gary045gary045 Member Posts: 81
    This car has almost all of the luxury tech that one wants to want (nav, auto headlights, HID's, etc.).
    ******************
    I'll try to avoid buying a car with xenon or HID headlights after seeing how much it costs to replace one, per car & driver july 08 long term test of the 07 Nissan Altima..
    $656 per headlamp....
    ********************************************
    "A person is smart, people are dumb" works here..

    I'll take a HD TV instead....lol
  • jeffreidjeffreid Member Posts: 162
    Your post makes me smile. And you're right about the cost of the lights, they are through the roof.

    $656 bought me a blu-ray player, a hd-dvd player, and got some change back.

    The person that wants those lights usually wants others on the road to know that they have a premium car.

    One other note though, my last car (suv actually) had HID's and we were really happy with them. I felt like the illumination was worth the potential cost.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    But now the Azera is pretty much forgotten and it's such a weak force in the marketplace that its competitors have absolutely nothing to worry about. In fact, they laugh at the Azera.

    That's a complete and total lie. They can't even see it.

    Someone said the Genesis might help boost Azera sales. I don't think so. But positively, I don't think the Azera will sell a model less than it has. The two may overlap on paper, but from my experience, not a whole lot in flesh.
  • technishawntechnishawn Member Posts: 26
    Yes, it does say Toyota...on engine castings...I have even seen it on the windows of the SC 400.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    But now the Azera is pretty much forgotten and it's such a weak force in the marketplace that its competitors have absolutely nothing to worry about. In fact, they laugh at the Azera.

    Disagreed 100%.

    You know what's going on right now with the economy? In fact, the whole large car class is in the sh*t hole. For example, Avalon has only sold a little over 21K units all told through May 2008, some 34% off the pace from same period last year; while the Azera is only off by about 10%. Put it in another way, last year, for every Azera sold, Toyota sold four-to-five Avalons; YTD 2008, that ratio has gone down to almost 2:1.

    Just because you don't see many (or any) in your area, doesn't mean same thing everywhere else...
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Yes, it does say Toyota...on engine castings...I have even seen it on the windows of the SC 400.

    I knew it. But the window part doesn't shock me. GM is probably on the windows of Caddys, and Ford is definitely on the windoes of Lincolns.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    I wouldn't compare Azera to just the Avalon :surprise:

    Yes, all sales are down now because of the economy, but that actually should boost Hyundai sales over competitors since consumers get more bang for their buck. Actually several models in the Hyundai line have seen sales increases.

    But Azera, even in the Hyundai line, is a rather minor vehicle. Azera sales from January-March, 2008 show 5,706 sold. Sales for the same period show Sonata sales of 24,431 and Electra sales of 23,870. The Santa Fe sales were 17,691. Even the lowly Accent sold 10,214 and the Tucson sold 6,013. No wonder why Hyundai really doesn't advertise or push the Azera. It is a "minor" vehicle in their line-up. And if you look back to 2007 and 2006, the Azera average sales were actually LOWER than in 2008.

    So, Azera has never been a "force" in the marketplace. The weakening economy might actually HELP Azera because of its value and the weakening sales competitors in that class, but that still won't bring Azera up to their level.

    Timing for the Genesis might also be a problem. The economy is poor. Introducing a large car in the marketplace at a time when consumers are looking to downsize and conserve can be a problem. It may not be the best time to introduce a car with a V8 engine producing close to 400 horsepower. The weakening dollar will actually raise the price of the Genesis.

    What it looks like to me is that the Genesis might go the way of the Azera. I'm sure it will be in short supply initially, but, over time when things settle, I doubt we'll see sales figures over 2-3 thousand per month.

    I think what would really help to boost sales of the Genesis, is if they came up with a Genesis Hybrid or something inventive such as a Genesis NG (natural gas). The car would retain the great features and performance, but also be much cleaner and economical for a great price. That would be hot in our current marketplace.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    You seem surprised by the fact the higher-priced Azera sold less than lower-priced products in the fleet...

    And if you look back to 2007 and 2006, the Azera average sales were actually LOWER than in 2008.

    So have almost everyone in the large sedan class. Like I said, the Azera is doing okay without much media exposure - as per my example previously, the Azera is actually staying close to its pace from last year (about 10% off); that cannot be said for some others in the class (i.e. Avalon off about 34%).

    It makes little sense to compare the Azera to the sales of other Hyundai products. To come from another angle, let me compare the Avalon to other products in the Toyota line (i.e. Camry), and with that, man, Avalon sales just tanked...doesn't make much sense, does it? That is why I used the Avalon as an example, instead something like the Accent.

    I doubt we'll see sales figures over 2-3 thousand per month.

    Well, neither do I, especially considering Hyundai only estimated 20K for all export markets in 08 (partial year), which the US is one of those markets. FWIW, the average mid-to-large luxury sedan does not sell in large quantities, period.

    The Genesis family (sedan and coupe) is not out to be the king of sales, but moreso to improve the brand, to create an emphasis on the brand, and to bring the intanibles to the rest of the line. This is not a product for the beancounters, neither is the Azera, for the matter.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Timing is a difficult thing for manufacturers - look at what Ford and GM are having to do with their new version pick-ups and SUV's. With the recession, low value dollar and high gas prices, it is not a good time to introduce a V8 in a heavy car that will probably have poor MPG.
    Personally I think Hyundai should put more into really bringing the Azera up to where it is supposed to be so that it will be competitive with Avalon, top Honda Accord, Maxima and so forth.
    Most people in the $35,000+ field are looking for a badge as much as anything else. No matter how good the Genesis is, when you park it next to an Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, MB, etc., you just want feel the same.
    Hyundai needs to establish a minimum five year across the board for all models excellent reliability before a $35,000+ car will appeal to most people, if they can get the badge people to buy it at all.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    will probably have poor MPG

    Except that's not true. 17/25 is very respectable for a V8 375hp car that weighs almost 2 ton.

    Personally I think Hyundai should put more into really bringing the Azera up to where it is supposed to be so that it will be competitive with Avalon, top Honda Accord, Maxima and so forth.

    I don't agree. I firmly believe the Azera is on par with the competition. The owners I have spoken to seem to agree; ditto from the industry professionals.
  • carbuntcarbunt Member Posts: 40
    I have to concur here with regard to the questionable prospects of the Genesis badged Hyundai. My other thoughts are that I think although Hyundai has set U.S. sales target of 30k units, realistically, we may only see sales in the low teens. That would still be considerably better though than single digits, however.

    One of the main sticking points that I have had since the decision by Hyundai to remove the Genesis branding from their premium vehicle is that it undervalued the vehicle from a marketing standpoint. Given the fact that they opted not to develop a separate brand channel, they handicapped this car further by neglecting to establish this car with its own brand identity, resulting in a car possessing zero brand cachet.

    Of course they could’ve housed the Genesis under the ‘H’ umbrella temporarily while they carefully gauged its growth, market acceptance and still benefit from the carry over halo effect within the Hyundai value brand.

    Yet, we all know the rationale Hyundai has given or is it tried to justify(?) as to why they left the Hyundai logo on the rear deck lid and stripped off any identity for this car on the front hood.

    Regardless of how genuinely well made this vehicle is, I can't help but agree with all who have voiced concern about the lack of cachet that seemingly undermines this car.

    The Genesis Brand would have been an excellent 'trophy' car brand, especially for American consumers in the demographic target group that Hyundai plans to market.

    In my opinion, the Genesis’ prospects would’ve been greatly improved and had a wider appeal to this group BUT Instead, Hyundai may have squandered their U.S. launch by going against the grain, fighting the natural laws of branding and marketing because group think egos at Hyundai Corporate said, "Lets promote the Hyundai brand ahead of making this a premium, car called Genesis".

    Their desire to push and grow sales in the U.S. market is their single minded overriding objective which may explain why it has clouded their sound business sense by allowing them to succumb to “against the grain thinking”. Regardless of what Hyundai says, I believe they have made a magnificent blunder by not retaining the Genesis brand/logo.
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Joe,

    I guess we'll need to agree to disagree whether the Azera is doing well compared with the Avalon and other vehicles in that class and whether or not the Genesis will do well. We can all interpret the figures differently. When I look at the figures and see that the Hyundai Azera might sell 15,000 or so vehicles per year. I see that the Toyota sold 66,905 Avalons in 2006 and 54,560 in 2007. In 2008, it looks like they're down by 30% or so which might bring them down to 36,000 or so Avalons this year. Toyota sold 365,140 Camrys in 2007.; You say, that Azera is competing with the Avalon quite well. I say it's doing rather poorly. I guess we see things differently.

    My point with the Genesis is that I really don't expect the Genesis to do any better against its competition than the Azera is doing. Even with its lower price point, I don't expect it to sell nearly as well as BMW or Lexus, or Mercedes, etc. I think the whole luxury market is depressed and the Genesis enters at a very unfortunate time.
  • ladave1ladave1 Member Posts: 4
    I drove the Genesis last Saturday at the LA Chalk festival in Pasadena. I was a BIG FAN. Loved how it handled, looked, the room, air conditioned driver's seat... Now I am a 2 car Hyundai owner, but I will trade in my Sonata for the Genesis. The only thing that really bothers me is the no trunk release. It seems like a small thing, but I wonder what it would take to get one installed...aka trick my Genesis. Any idea next year's Genesis will have the automatic trunk openner? I was not aloud to really open it up on the freeway, but impressed with the ride. It was great.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe one big reason Hyundai didn't stick the Genesis brand on their new flagship sedan is because Genesis as a brand has almost no value or recognition. The Hyundai brand has very good value, and broad recognition worldwide. Did you know, for example, that the Hyundai brand is ranked 8th overall in value amongst automakers--ahead of brands such as Nissan... Porsche... and (!) Lexus?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Come on, the math is not that hard to figure out - as close as last year, Toyota was selling somewhere in the range of 4-5 Avalons for every Azera sold; so far this year, that ratio has come down to around 2 Avalons for every Azera.

    Let's also not forget the Avalon is well-established, vs. the Azera being a new product entry, new name, etc. Yes, the Azera sales aren't blowing anyone's socks off; yes, the numbers could be better, but let's not make it sound like no one is buying the Azera...
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    questionable prospects of the Genesis badged Hyundai.

    That's all speculative. FWIW, Hyundai has reported the cost of setting up a new marque and everything that comes with it (i.e. dealer network). I don't remember the exact number but Hyundai had estimated somewhere in the double digit in years just to breakeven from the upfront costs.

    I actually don't have a problem with it badging as a Hyundai. I see it as a win-win - the product itself is a winner, as well as the intangible benefits to the brand and the other line in the fleet. We'd have never known how a luxury marque would perform, but the outlook in current situation looks very good for the improvements of the Hyundai brand, it may also work as the better scenario long term.

    Hyundai has set U.S. sales target of 30k units

    This year Hyundai Korea has set a sales target of 20K for all export markets, US being one of them (partial year). I think they would need to re-assess the market condition for next year before releasing a fair estimate.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    You've got a jealous guy here :)

    About the trunk release, you'd have to use the key, or the release button inside the car - I agree w/ you on that one.

    I am patiently awaiting my drive soon!!!
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