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Comments
Thank you for the very informative review!
In the past week, I have taken three months of interest in the Genesis and almost completely abandoned it in favor of the 2009 Maxima with Tech + Premium package. I am not sure; maybe it was a culmination of impatience with the lack of info on the Genesis mixed with very positive reviews of the '09 Maxima.
Both cars should be on the lots in the next few weeks and I feel (based correctly or incorrectly on everything I have read to date) that it is going to be a difficult decision. I wish it were as easy as asking myself the question of whether I want a FWD, smaller, well appointed stylish vehicle from a reputable manufacturer vs. a RWD, larger, well appointed stylish vehicle from a manufacturer with less respect (but clearly increasing) -- but it is still going to be a tough decision...
Your post is enough to get me excited about the Genesis again to the point where it will come down to what it always should have: a test drive in each car.
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?p=996&posted=1#pos- t996
After seeing the car in person, I want to have you ask yourself one question.
If you were looking at a 2009 Max and a 2009 E350 for about the same price, which would you choose?
I think most people would go for the E350 without hesitation. Now I know that the Genesis still says Hyundai on the back and there is no 3-pointed star, but the Genesis really is as nice as the M-B. Seriously. No, I'm not on drugs.
I'm just saying that you should go drive the car. If you do, I think you'll be a Genesis owner. I was just blown away. By the way, depending on where you're at, there may be some very appealing finance offers right at launch.
First of all, of course not. Lexus doesn't even have a corner carving BMW fighter. And Second, Hyundai didin't ask for a BMW fighter, but a competitor for Japenese luxury vehicles.
Oh, and the Genesis is not as nice a car as the E350. Maybe the GS or the M, but Hyundai isn't quite ready for Mercedes yet (or BMW, for that matter). Still, Hyundai did a good job with this one.
And as long as it works when I want it to. 8-way great when it works, but aska Mercedes owner about the $800 repair for the non-functioning headrest, or the seat that is laid back and will not move.
How about a chocolate fondue set too? As long as you are at it.
Think about what it means to you when gas is $7gal.
Coming soon to a filling station near you.
I stopped by a Nissan dealer on my way home tonight and saw a 2009 Maxima in person but did not get to drive it. Very nice interior and really sweet body design. But...I was reminded of how I really want something a little bigger.
The lease on the Genesis is very attractive (as long as there are not a lot of hidden fees) so I am definitely anxious to take it for a spin!
did they mention why the price would increase in six months? Would it be that Hyundai would be offering a couple extra features that got left off this time around?
Have you driven a Genesis?
The Genesis has more room, more power, more comfortable seats, has a better warranty, is quieter, and has a comprable level of equipment to the E-class. For $15k less.
Why is the E-class better?
I did not get the feeling that there would be any additional features, just that maybe the rising cost of steel and diesel (for ships and such) was contributing to the additional cost.
They have to keep this car as inexpensive as possible for launch you know.
One other note, the guy that told me this is a regional sales manager for HMA. He also told me that the tech pkg V6 should be $37k. He actually gave me a look like "You're a moron to even ask such a question". He (and another guy from HMA) said that what it says in the order guide is correct $33k plus the $4k.
I did not notice any issue with headroom. As I have mentioned previously, the inside of the Genesis is very generous with room in pretty well every dimension.
I do not have the interior specs here, but I will try to make a guess based on observation. We sold a 2009 Sonata yesterday to a gentleman that is about 6'3" or 6'4" and weighs in around 280. He and his wife both commented on how they were amazed at the headroom for him even with the moonroof that the car had. With that being said, the Genesis is a little bigger inside than the Sonata and as such should be at least as roomy.
Hope this helps.
The Autoblog review is not as positive as others. Very nice photos in the gallery!
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/first-drive-2009-hyundai-genesis/
Matt
Yes.
Have you driven a Genesis?
No.
The Genesis has more room...
True.
more power...
But the E is quicker.
more comfortable seats
I wouldn't say that. Or:
is quieter
My point is Hyundai has done a great job for the first time around. Lexus didn't get this close until 10 years ago. But the Genesis isn't there yet. There are still little things inside, and a lot of performance that make the MB still superior to this and a lot of other models. But don't worry. Lexus still isn't quite there. It takes time.
Also, seeing as how the Benz comes in at 13.96 pounds per horse versus 10.87 pounds per horse on the Genesis (V8 running regular gas), I just don't see how you can say that the E is quicker. Doesn't make any sense. Also, I am not losing any fuel mileage for the extra power.
Again I ask, what little things on the inside are leading to this conclusion, and where are we seeing that a $55k E350 is outperforming my $38k-$42k Genesis? I've been in both cars, and seriously, there really isn't a bunch of tangible difference. Especially not in the direction of the E. All I really saw was some extra adjustments for the passenger seat, an extra memory setting for the driver's seat, and a power headrest.
By the way, I really like the E-class. It will be on the short list for my wife and I when we buy again in the next couple of years. So, I 'm not bashing or anything, I'm just trying to look at facts from an objective point of view.
link title
The Black Genesis I drove was absolutely fantastic. I own an 06 Audi A4 3.2Q (6 Speed Manual), and I am generally very picky about giving good reviews on a car.
A common criticism of Genesis in preliminary reviews in magazines was that the car does not handle that well as a "sports" sedan. This is simply untrue, as I floored the test car on a 90-degree right turn several times at 35 mph+ and the car stuck to the road extremely well, without any ESC intervention. My Audi A4 3.2Q does NOT handle the road better than this car (in dry test conditions).
There is a lot of old-world charm to the car. The leather wrap-around in the dash is tastefully done, with perfect french-stitching and narrow / precise chrome surrounding each ventilation units. They shine like jewelry under direct sunlight. I own an `06 Audi A4, which is considered to be one of the finest near-luxury interiors. Let's just say Genesis was one grade higher than my (beloved) Audi.
Some also criticized the Genesis in the preliminary review as having a "softer" suspension than desired and "muffled" engine note. This is also untrue. The car had a perfect combination of comfort and sport, and the suspension re-tuning for the US market was firmer, so it legitimately felt like a sports sedan during a spirited drive. As an A4 3.2Q FSI driver I can attest to this.
When I floored the car, the Genesis created a sporty and quite pleasant engine growl; I preferred the Genesis 3.8's exhaust note over 3.2 Quattro FSI exhaust note. That's saying something. The Genesis 3.8 is also more fuel-efficient than my A4 3.2 Q FSI, although the Lambda 3.8 is a higher-displacement engine with more horsepower. Gensis generates 290 hp vs. Audi 3.2 Q's 255 hp.
Overall, Hyundai has done a beautiful (almost stunning) job on the Genesis. This car is a real luxury sedan, as opposed to a "wanna-be". If you are a confident person, you wouldn't give a damn about people's so-called "perceptions" anyway and instead just drive a superior car at 30~35% the cost of the competition with better warranty coverage. If anything, most people respect you for driving something good and different, because they will perceive you as a confiden person who creates his/her own image, as opposed to latching onto a conventional and boring cultural cliche.
If you test drive the Genesis, I think you will be very convinced to purchase the car, especially when you look at its value proposition.
People have compared the Genesis to Lexus and Mercedes Benz. I think the comparison is misplaced. The Genesis is tuned and feels more like an Audi, in its artistic interior execution to the suspension tuning (non-RS versions). If you are a recent Audi owner, I think you'll draw similar conclusions.
---------------------------
Per Autoblog's test, the V6 pulled to 60 in 6.2 seconds, and 5.7 seconds in V8.
I just knew the suspension would be the weak link in the car, and all three reviews, plus one video (the Korean one) unanimously confirm that. I will be surprised if my personal test drive leads me to conclude anything different. For whatever reason, Korean engineers just can't seem to button down a suspension properly - I mean, come on, "[h]owever, if the vehicle is faced with a set of rhythmic dips in the road, the softly sprung Genesis gently porpoises a bit more than expected. At legal speeds it was hardly noticeable. However, in excess of about 85 mph it became unsettling."
Unsettling! That's not exactly something I'd expect given who Hyundai said they benchmarked with the Genesis.
That's terribly disappointing for a car that benchmarks the BMW 7 series or Infinity M (I've driven the M35 over a weekend, and that car has a near perfect suspension, IMO).
And, to the person who said the Mercedes is 12k to 18k more - this is where Hyundai may have trouble threading the needle. 12k to 18k amortized over the lifespan of the car isn't really that much in exchange for the prestige of a Mercedes emblem. Maybe I'm being too shallow, or maybe I'm recognizing the general public as being too shallow, which may be the true reality.
One last thing, the Genesis doesn't seem to be a bad car by any means, but I think I actually like the interior of the Azera better. The Genesis interior is just bland.
I'll wait to test drive it before deciding that the criticism of the suspension rings true, and before finalizing my judgment on the interior styling.
I will say this - It had better be much better than a Mercedes E350 for me to not be strongly tempted to fork over an additional 12k. I work in an industry where clients tend to judge one's capabilities and success by the prestige associated with the car they drive, unfortunately. Call it shallow and superficial, but it's the real world.
Also Hyundai does not have a program where you can exit your lease early (atleast 50% into) and hop into another lease unfortunately. The only option was to roll over the equity into the new lease, which kinda worked out good for me.
Also, I know there are 15 speakers in the car but where are they all located?? When I test drove the car, the sales mgr was with me and we both couldnt count up to 15!
With the Veracruz taking a year to get any money on them at all, and the fact that the Genesis is being planned as a realatively low volume model, any cash back will most likely be a ways off and fairly small when it does come around.
The best news though is the 0.9% finacing available for 48 months. If one can leave their cash in an investment at, say 5.00%, you would be talking about a net gain of around $5500 over 4 years. In my mind that's way better than $3kK-$4k if it was available.
And as to the review that you speak of, it seems to be in the minority. One other review I read stated that at 100+ MPH that the Genesis was "rock-solid". It seems hard to reconcile those two opinions.
Glad to hear that some of you did get to drive the car. I expected to hear positive things, but wow, you guys really are doing some great advertising!!
Hope you enjoy your new car.
Check this out. The last commnet in this review is impressive.
"A key marketing angle Hyundai wants to press home to Genesis is that it approaches the size of BMW 7-series in packaging, gives the performance of a 5-series, and is priced like 3-series. All true"
I understand that you feel for the price, you can compare the two, but you still have to compare apples to apples. The E500, though 60k, would blow the Genesis' doors off with it's 0-60 sprint of 4.8 (!) seconds. And I believe the E350 does it in 6.2 (I'm not completely sure, but around that). That's pretty close to 5.9, and the Genesis V6 does it in a hair under 7 seconds. Also, MT got a combined fuel economy of 17.6 for the E500, and i would bet big that the Genesis won't get any better than 19, so that won't be much of a difference.
Other stuff MT noticed (that aren't quite acceptable for a lux car):
"Hyundai didn't sweat the details, thoguh, because elsewhere they're less impressive. The hood gap is a bit too wide. The Genesis has gooseneck hinges (not bad, but they're not gas filled shockes) and parcel shelf speaker and subwoofer bottoms of that high end lexicon system are left expose. A 21K Malibu's trunk is finished better." -MT. I could go on, but that's enough.
My point is, The Genesis is nice, but Hyundai still has bugs to work out. Mercedes has been world class luxury leader for 20+ years. So to say the Hyundia's first try outdoes MB is simply silly. No doubt a better value, but not a better package. Though with time, that will change. As we are seeing, the Koreans like to play hardball.
By the way, I really like the E-class. It will be on the short list for my wife and I when we buy again in the next couple of years. So, I 'm not bashing or anything, I'm just trying to look at facts from an objective point of view.
I'm sort of in the same boat. When I decide to sell my 545 (which actually may be more than just a couple of years from now)This will get a look. So will the CTS, and upcoming TL.
The true test of a car's inherent quality, value and driveability is when you live with it, day in and day out, for a period of years.
That's when the warts begin to surface.
For those of us who haven't yet driven this vehicle (myself included), I will have to reserve opinion/bias/perceptions, etc. until I have had an opportunity to see some serious wheel time.
The speculation about this car was interesting before it landed. Now that it has, I think we are way past the speculative in terms of which vehicle Genesis exceeds or meets in quality and expectation.
I think judgment in regards to how best Genesis ranks against the established premium brands will be an open book until a comparison test between the established lux brands within striking target of the Genesis has been conducted.
Now, I will still throw out for debate the idea that a 375 horse V8 will provide more than enough thrust for nearly any driver. When you combine that with the $20k+ savings, I think that the extra bit of acceleration becomes very expensive.
A note about your MT review. This car must have been a test mule or complete preproduction model. This car DOES have gas struts on the hood, and it DOES have a fully finished trunk. Matter of fact, the trunk linings and the plastic that covers the trunk hinges in the Genesis and the E350 seem to have come off of the same assembly line. They look exactly the same!! I just point this out to say that MT must have gotten a car that was not finished, b/c there aren't any real world Genesis' that are like that.
I also understand the point of defending the M-B brand. They are the sign of success in my mind as they are in many other's. I just am of the mindset that the substance of what rolls of of the assembly line is more important than the "idea" of what is rolling off of that line.
Some questions and judgments will be made about whether it handles, accelerates, meets NVH quality, luxury appointments, and whatever other finer points of the vehicle are to be assessed and judged by the experts. It will certainly let us know whether it is a game changer in terms of its value/quality equation.
At least, based on what we know, the value proposition is hard to argue.
No white, are they crazy??? Here in Florida I think white is the most popular color. I have 3 pearl white cars (Lexus & Infiniti). I was happy that Hyundai was supposed to have a pearl white. Apparently not. I guess it is like the Pontiac G8 where they advertised a medium blue color, even had one of the car mags test one and then discontinued the color. My dealer still claims it might be the end of July before they get their first car. This roll out seems REALLY slow.
So you said, but check out another:
The Genesis 3.8 tips the scales at 3,748 pounds and scoots to 60 mph in a decent 6.2 seconds.
The V8 at 5.7 secs...
You've got to hand it to Hyundai, they have two powerful engines, with very very respectable power ratings, combined with fantastic fuel economy ratings in a car that weighs almost two tons. And I haven't even mentioned price/value/packaging yet
By the way, the Genesis V8 uses a 4.6L, while the E550 uses a 5.5L - almost a whole liter larger but horsepower rating only marginal better than the Genesis, a little better on the torque.
This gives a good indication the power of the Genesis:
The final comparison took place on an unused straight-a-way. It was essentially a "drag race" between the Genesis 4.6 and a BMW 750i. As expected, the lighter and more powerful Genesis won each time.
Only if you are reading all of the good car reviews
Base on my first impression, the Genesis fits the bill as a quality product, and it is that very result of the product the Genesis has received more-than-positive reviews to-date.
The true test of a car's inherent quality, value and driveability is when you live with it, day in and day out, for a period of years.
True, but if everyone waited until deliberation, then who are buying the new cars :P
Outside appearance of the vehicle to myself and my wife
Inside appearance of the vehicle to myself and my wife
Pricing fully loaded with all options and the V8 for myself
Availability when, for both of us
Colors that can be ordered and not on allocation for my wife
Any special funding programs that may be available for us both by Hyundai
Don't care that Hyundai may not have the presence yet of Lexus BMW etc
Things that hit our hot buttons so far:
For what you get for the price
A sound system that must be awesome
A strong V8
Headlights that move
A large back seating area
The car from the rear really looks great especially with the dual exhaust
A V8 that can run well on regular and only loose a few HP
A very strong warranty
A good 20 gallon tank
Rain sensing wipers
Cooled seat, thats cool
NAV system with great extras
etc
So now we wait and wait until it comes to Southern Calif.
Sure wish they would put a fire under them to get some here
why is the Genesis so slow then? it has the almost the same power to weight ratio as the E550 (382 hp, 4099 lbs according to Motor Trend compared to 375 hp, 4006 lbs with the Genesis), but the e550 still goes 0-60 about 1 second quicker (4.8).
also, the G8 is heavier then the Genesis and has less power (361 hp, 4106 lbs), but is still consistently quicker (5.4 0-60 and quarter mile in 13.7 seconds).
incidentally, the Genesis even has a similar power to weight ratio as the E39 M5 (4024 lbs, 394 hp under the old rating), but is still considerably slower.
the Passat that won first place on Motor Trend, only makes 200 hp and weighs 3413 lbs compared to 290 hp and 3748 lbs for the V6 Genesis, but does 0-60 in 6.7 seconds and the quarter mile in 15.0 seconds. it's about as fast or faster than the Azera or V6 Sonata, and slightly slower than the Genesis.
straightline performance isn't everything, but it's a big part of what defines a sports sedan. i don't know why the Genesis doesn't perform better. maybe it's those German horses...
at $36,000 for a premium plus Genesis, i would consider waiting for the V8. yes, it gets worse fuel mileage, but we're only talking about 2 miles per gallon. unless you drive a lot, it probably translates to around $600 a year. that's at $5.00 a gallon and 20,000 city miles a year. at $4.00 a gallon, it would be around $120 more each year for every 10,000 highway miles; it would be about $245 more each year for every 10,000 city miles.
the only other negative with the V8 is that it's heavier so it might not be as "tossable" in the corners. 260 lbs is like an extra passanger and some more gas in the tank. and insurance premiums are probably higher. otherwise, the engine and transmission are more refined, the steering feel is supposedly better, and there are things standard on the V8 that are not available on the V6, such as premium leather and better brakes (i'm not completely sure on this). all for 2 grand. or as i would like to call it, the V8 package. :P
Well, if Hyundai is going to allocate a lot of $40k V6 Genesis cars to dealer lots, it WILL be their Phaeton - I don't care if they have an automatic kleenex dispenser and itch scratcher.
The further north of 30k, the fewer of these cars Hyundai will sell.
It was supposed to be a sub-30k car when Hyundai first leaked details of it.
Now we have 40k V6 models. I wonder what the loaded V8 models will cost?
I'm more skeptical than ever.
We know exactly what loaded V8 models cost, at least the MSRP pricing. If you're curious, check out Edmunds.com's New Car listings for Hyundais--the Genesis details are right there.
Since you've made it clear that the Genesis is not the car for you, Hyundai will just have to sell one of those $33k to over $40k cars to someone else.
Now we have 40k V6 models. I wonder what the loaded V8 models will cost?
Who said it was going to be a sub-30K car? The Azera is a sub-30K car. Plus, the weak dollars had a lot to do with the pricing - everyone's raising prices, as a matter of fact.
Loaded V8 - I thought we've covered this a million times already. Anyway, with all of the bells and whistles, a loaded V8 MSRP for 42K. By the way, the 40K V6 is a loaded V6, but I've been told by a dealer a loaded V6 is 37K MSRP, going to have to confirm.
Let's get this out in the open, by the way, this information is also available all over the internet:
Genesis V6: 33,000 MSRP (with handling)
Genesis V8: 38,000 MSRP (with handling)
http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2009_Models/Genesis/Pricing.asp
Phaeton, are you kidding me? You do recall the cost of the Phaeton, right? I still don't understand how the pricing of the Genesis is anything like the Phaeton, actually far from alike. Still a fantastic car, nontheless
FWIW, I was saying the power per liter on the engine range of the Genesis is fantastic - 375hp from a 4.6L, while G8 and E550 use 6.1L and 5.5L, respectively.
I wouldn't say the Genesis is slow at all, after all, it passes the 750i with ease everytime
Consumer reports has it as there highest rated luxury car, outscoring the Mercedes S Class, BMW 7 Series, Lexus LS, Acura RL and Audi A8, even though some of these cars cost more than twice as much.
I absolutely love it, based on my experience. Consumer Reports has nailed it. The ride, handling and technology are all absolutely superb. The base model is loaded enough for me:
The standard rear-drive M35 comes with 18-inch alloy wheels, leather upholstery, 10-way power and climate-controlled front seats, dual-zone automatic climate control, wood accents, an auto-dimming rearview mirror, a sunroof, adaptive xenon headlights, Bluetooth and a six-speaker audio system with a six-CD/MP3 changer, satellite radio and an auxiliary audio jack.
Hyundai screwed up. I figured they would. I won't even bother test driving it now, unless it's purely out of curiosity.
That 11k difference, Backy? I'll more than make up for it when I resell my Infiniti, as the resale value is leagues above Hyundai's.
I am very disappointed in Hyundai's pricing scheme. If they thought they had a shot at conquest sales from the lower or upper ends, they couldn't have picked a worse price range if they tried. The will lose to Toyota Avalons on the low end, for about 26k, to Infiniti Ms, BMW 5s, Mercedes Es and even Lexus GSs on the upper end.
And I can guarantee you a LOT of people will feel this way when they catch that first screenshot of real dealer lot window stickers.
And that is a true disappointment. However, I still wish Hyundai and the Genesis good luck.
But keep in mind that you will need to sell your M35 for much more than $11k more than the Genesis to make up for the price difference, due to the time value of money. For example, if you keep your cars for a long time (which I prefer to do), say 10 years, the time value of $12k (let's not forget sales tax) after 10 years at just 6% interest compounded annually is nearly $21,500. So you need to add that investment gain (or avoidance of interest on a loan you pay off) into the depreciation calculation. It would be difficult if not impossible to make out better financially with the Infiniti.
Also keep in mind that near-MSRP pricing will probably only hold for the Genesis for a short time, until the "gotta be the first one in my neighborhood to own a Genesis" buyers are satiated. Then the prices will, I think, float to more realistic numbers. And in today's real world, most people expect discounts on cars like these, even if they start at a much lower price than competitors.
But it's not just about money, is it? It's about what you will enjoy driving more over those years.
Just curious, though: what would you think if CR rates the Genesis over the M35 when it gets around to testing it?
:sick:
You say you own an Infiniti, and you are complaining about the price? Come on now.
I won't even bother test driving it now
I was actually surprised you considered test driving the car, as late as about 18 hours ago. I really didn't think you would have bothered in the first place.