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All cars today have incentives, unless they're truly limited in supply, such as the new Alfa Romeo, or other exotics.
So it seems you understandmy point in saying that while the Hyundai is a much better value, the MB is still a superior car, though not by much. But that's okay. MB hasbeen developing it's world class stigma twice as long as Hyundai has been a car company. So that's expected. How successful Hyundai's execution was the first time around was not.
Where did that number come from? Like I said, MT got 6.8. 6.2 would defeat the purpose of the 8 cylinder.
By the way, the Genesis V8 uses a 4.6L, while the E550 uses a 5.5L - almost a whole liter larger but horsepower rating only marginal better than the Genesis, a little better on the torque.
Okay. Doesn't the Audi A6 have a 4.2 that makes 350hp? And the MB is still better tuned for better driving dynamics.
The final comparison took place on an unused straight-a-way. It was essentially a "drag race" between the Genesis 4.6 and a BMW 750i. As expected, the lighter and more powerful Genesis won each time.
This shows nothing. They even say that the 750 is heavier. The 550 can outrun the 750. The E500 can outrun the S550. The GS outruns the LS. When Hyundai creates a fullsize luxury car in 5-10 years (if they do well enough here) the Genesis will outrun it. And the Genesis will either have to shrink to compete squarely with the 5/E, or grow the S-class size so an E fighter can slot under it.
Like I said, Hyundai really didn't add the "technology" on this iteration - direct injection, cyclinder deactivation. Still, it comes out well ahead, with excellent power figures, and fuel economy ratings to match.
By the way, ALG gives the Genesis 50% (V6) and 49% (V8) residual value after 3 years, if I recall correctly. Good stuff. Actually, I am not surprised, the Azera, Veracruz, and rest of the line all have much improved ratings.
I think that buying fully-loaded V8 matching the size of BMW 7-series and the performance of Infinity M only for 42K is almost steal as it is. V6 trim is not much different. IMO the pricing of Genesis wasn't done wrong. Instead poor dealership experience or late and untimely shipment might be problems. As many papers and articles said, product won't matter for the price. hyundai's marketing and sales policy would matter though.
Here it is:
http://jalopnik.com/393792/2009-hyundai-genesis-priced-starting-at-33000-most-ex- - - - - pensive-kimchi-ever#viewcomments
Well, remember yesterday how we talked about the 2009 Hyundai Genesis being a value proposition at a sub-$30,000 price point with a V8? Well, Automotive News is reporting Hyundai Motor America has priced the new Genesis luxury sedan at $33,000 for the V6 version and $38,000 for the V8.
I predict that within a year or less, Hyundai will be tossing heavy incentives on the hoods of these cars, and the people who purchased out of the gate close to MSRP will be cursing Hyundai.
I've been wrong before, but I feel very confident that I will be proven correct on this thesis.
That sub-30k Genesis may be a reality after all.
I just checked Fitzmall's site, Backy.
$12,000 Elantras. Hyundai is smartly pricing them.
$15,500 Sonatas. Hyundai is smartly pricing them.
$22,000 Azeras. Hyundai is smartly pricing them.
$35k to $42k Genesis (Genesi?). Hyundai has lost its mind.
JMHO.
You are forgetting the rest of the story, though: Elantra sales are surging, and the SE model is closer to $15k than $12k. Those $15.5k Sonatas (not at Fitzmall, btw, theirs start over $16k with an AT) are base GLS models; the loaded Sonatas are $20k or more. And loaded Azeras are at least in the mid-$20s. Veracruz? In the mid-$30s. And people are buying at those prices. Mid-$30s for a near-luxury Hyundai SUV...so why not mid-$30s to low-40s for a Hyundai luxury sedan? Just because you don't mind paying over 12 grand more for a different brand doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.
And one more thing: say what you want about the Genesis, take all the pot shots you want, but IMO jokes about genocide are in extremely poor taste.
Recently I noticed lots of Elantra and 2009 Sonata in my neighborhood (Burlingame, CA). I see more Sonata's than the new Accord now. In a few days Hyundai will release the June sales result. It'll be very interesting to see.
I stand by my comment about the pricing, though. Hyundai made a very big mistake by leaking pricing of below 30k (which they definitely did - some in the blogosphere claim even for the V8 model, while others for the V6), and then coming in with what I guarantee will be a near 80% mix of 35k and up vehicles on dealer lots.
In the league Hyundai now wants to play in - with Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac and even mid sized BMWs and Mercedes - they are either extremely confident or extremely naive to price the Genesis closer to the 40k price point by the time all fees, including TTL are factored in, rather than the 30k they originally spoke of.
...especially given economic conditions now and the penchant for fuel sippers.
Only time will tell if confidence or naivety reigns supreme.
Sonatas are certainly selling decently, but nowhere near accord levels though. 13K doesn't compare to 50K. But I love the amount of advertising they're doing on the Sonata though. It's all over the edmunds website.
Anyways if you compare the genesis to comparable vehicles, it's certainly cheaper. As a brand new model, everyone should know that there's a new owner cost in terms of cost and reliability and whatnot. It's kinda like buying an Iphone early, you pay for being the early adopter. I think the Genesis is priced fine, it's way too feature filled to be under 30k normally. I figure with rebates 6 months from now, it'll be more of a 32-37k car, still pricey, but reasonable and basically similar cost to entry bmw/mercedes/lexus.
I was saying that the IDEA of the M-B is tops, not the car itself. That is where the prestige factor comes in. I am going to hold fast to my opinion that the Genesis having more passenger room, more power, better fuel economy, and other advantages that still makes it the better buy.
But yes, M-B is the better logo.
Also, on another note. There will be white cars available. If you can't find one at your local dealer,and they can't dealer trade for one, contact Hyundai Motor America and ask them to locate one for you. They will give you the dealers that have the car that you want.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yjia6K0Rnqg
there's another video (about 6 minutes) where the main ride and handling engineer, Wendell Collins, talks about what they were trying to do with the Genesis. he says how the end result of the Genesis exceeded his expectations. which says a lot considering the BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Infiniti were the benchmarks. of course, this is the Hyundai guy talking, so it's very biased, but stil interesting.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tb4i9betEf8
finally, on the genesis owners website, there's someone who actually bought and took delivery of a 3.8 premium plus Genesis. he was a previous owner of the second generation Acura TL (worst version), the E39 BMW 528 (the best one), and a 2006 Lexus GS 430 (eh). never owned a Hyundai before, and so far, he says it's way better than the Acura and Lexus, although he was annoyed that the current IPod support/compatibility was minimal.
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=154
The 30K comment was made with the intention of the 3.3 model. Which Hyundai corporate wanted to send, and Hyundai USA didn't want. Plus, had the 3.3 model existed for the North American market, it would have been something like 29,995.
Trust me on this, and you can verify this with Hyundai if you'd like, the pricing range for the Genesis (in the US) was NEVER a sub-30K car!!! STOP listening to rumors and start relying on FACTS.
Had the Genesis be a sub-30K car, it would have overlapped with the Azera (at least in terms of pricing).
I don't get how you even think the pricing for Genesis is too much, when some of the other cars in the class you'd have to fork over 25-50% premium, or more.
Understand the Genesis is a brand-new car. I remember when the M first came out, you really couldn't find much discounts, if any. It's all about demand and supply.
Still, the M35 vs. Genesis V6, in terms of pricing, you'd come out ahead on the Genesis, unless the Infiniti dealers are giving them away
If M35 is at $42K and Genesis is at $40K and I cannot wait for 6-9 months to get the Genesis price reduced, why would I buy the Genesis? The reason I am asking is some of you are very knowledgeable and would appreciate your insight. It is also a very pro-Genesis board.
Any insights would be appreciated.
Also, Hyundai is starting the US launch with a $399/mo (V6) lease program - fantastic rates.
A loaded M35 is mid 50K - you got it down to 42K, well done there!!
I believe M37/M50 should be around the corner, replacing the current M35/45, along with the 7 speed (5 speed currently).
I am reading the person who got perhaps the first Genesis (with premium plus package). The owner said the tech package was skipped over, implying it was available.
I have been reading all the posts on this forum and some other forum from quite some time now. I am really interested in buying / leasing V6 with premium plus package. Does anyone know the insurance cost on V6 and V8? I understand that it will depend on the driving history etc. but what would be the range for 6 month insurance on V6? I have a V6 honda passport and I am paying about $550 but with multicar it will go down to $450.
Thanks,
Milan.
That's exactly what I said. The Hyundai is a better value. But it's still not on MB's level- in mindset, or execution.
Yes, the M-B brand is ahead in terms of brand prestige (Could anything be more obvious?) but no, the E350 is NOT a better executed car than the Genesis. Matter of fact, in terms of content, drive dynamics, use of interior space, and nearly any other measure of a vehicle, the Genesis is one of the better examples of superior execution on the market.
The E350 is more money simply because of the three pointed star. There is absolutely no reason that that car should be $13000 more than a V8 Genesis is if you are looking at the execution of the car or the actual car itself. Strip off the badges and then explain the $13000+ to anyone!!!!!!
Glad to see many of you have been able to find and take delivery of your new automobiles. I look forward to hearing from you in the next few months about how you feel about the car then.
What you can buy a year end 08 and new 09 for are 2 differnt things, so it's not exactly a "fair fight".
I think the V8 genesis is a really good value on paper. Even loaded up G35's and Acura TL's are pushing 40k these days.
Now, if you base your decision on a car with history vs. a first time product...I can definitely see how your choice can be swayed. However...with Hyundai's recent history concerning quality, durability and reliability...I really don't think one could go wrong. However, that is just MY opinion.
Oh...and the Genesis losing out to the Avalon, yeah right. If the Azera is a close competitor to the Avalon and the Genesis proves to be even better than the Azera...the Genesis would be the one to take the sales as opposed to the Avalon. I mean...even though they would both be large sedans, the Avalon and Genesis are two different animals. Sorry, bad choice to compare to. Now if you had said, G8, 300C/Charger R/T, M35/45 or GS....well, now we're on to something.
Such as, from what I can tell, the V6 genesis blows avalon out the door. It's got the advantage of RWD, far more features, a more powerful engine, similar fuel economy, more interior space. and a lot more luxury.
IF you think the price is too much for a Hyundai then go spend another $8-15k more for your image icon, if your insecurity level is that high! Enough with the bashing on Hyundai because it's not "prestige" enough. The last time I checked, there's nothing "prestige" about MB when their reliability ranking/reputation has plummeted. The only thing that brings people to the dealers is the icon. Is that a smart consumer or a branding consumer?
Take ALL the options of the Genesis and COMPARE them with cars equipped of same and see if the price is close. Seems like the Genesis is in a class by itself. The only thing close to the V8 in power is the G8 GT and it doesn't even have half the options the Genesis does. Don't try to cover the sky with your hand... some of you are looking rather foolish with what's being said here.
How did Hyundai overlook including folding outside mirrors and adjustable pedals in the "luxury" Genesis when the "near luxury" Azera has those options available?
They may be different animals, however, they WILL be cross-shopped. They are in the same price range, close in equipment levels (Genesis does win here), and are roughly the same size. People shop cars based on their budget, sure there are people that can afford whatever they want and will buy the Genesis based on value alone. However, people like myself who are in the mid 30s price range there are ALOT of options ranging from something small like the G onto the Avalon, Max and yes the Genesis (V6). IMO these are the buyers Hyundai should want. I agree with many other posters, that the people who are driving MB/Lex/Inf/BMW are not "downgrading" to a Hyundai whether or not its the better car.
Now that I have that out of the way.... I will be in the vicinity of a Hyundai dealer this weekend and will probably go in and see if they have any yet. Has anyone in the northeast seen any at the dealers?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
As of today there are exactly ZERO white Genesis sedans in the USA. There are also ZERO tech packages.
There have been others that have posted this info and I have said theat opposite, but this is the reality. Really stinks too, b/c one of the cars I ordered is a white tech pkg!! Hope it isn't at the bottom of the Pacific or something.........................
I would like to second the "amen" to bigelm. Well said. Hope I'm not an agenda guy............. :confuse:
jeffreid, that's the worst news I've heard in a long time. I was planning on leasing a tech package, and was excited about it. Have you heard any reasons for the delay? Was it Hyundai's plan to do it this way I wonder, or is there something wrong with the package?
The tech pkg on a V6 model IS $40,000. I sure wish it was $37,000, but, alas, it was not meant to be. We got an updated order guide over and this is the actual number.
Sorry for the previous error, but as I said previously, I was relaying what my reps told me.
For the rest of the story, the package will list as a $7000 option on the window. Invoice on that pkg is $6370. This will include the premium and premium plus packages as well.
MSRP= $40000
Invoice= $37363
V8 MSRP= $42000
V8 invoice= $38911
Again, sorry for the confusion before.
I thought I read somewhere during last week's press event in CA, Hyundai USA had a bunch of Genesis available for testing, including a white Genesis, if I am not mistaken.
The image factor makes this statement true, until Hyundai can establish themselves as one of the elite - which it has already taken a giant step.
That said, buyers choosing the Genesis over and/or from other luxury models are certainly not "downgrading"
This is why I predict the Genesis will get a good number of people jumping ship from the luxury end - those looking for a premium car but not necessarily image conscious or to keep up with the Joneses
I'll give you that, even just on paper its there. I haven't driven one yet, so I can't comment... yet. As for the "downgrading" I suspect one aspect of the luxury makes is the service. Hyundai dealerships are not known for great service and owners of MB/BMW and especially Lexus are. So, like anything you get what you pay for. The Genesis delivers a lot for the money but, the "frills" may be missing whether its plush dealerships with great service or a badge. For people with disposable income that could be the difference.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The best bet I have right now is that Hyundai was not prepared for a large percentage of units being ordered with the same package and color and may not have all of the hardware. That is total speculation though.
This is the first time that Hyundai has given dealers the ability to direct order a vehicle, and I wonder what effect that has had, if any.
One note on this though. I went ahead and called my rep to ask about a time frame. He wasn't really very informative, but he seemed to think that we were looking at a delay of no more than a month for white paint or a tech package. He either didn't know what the delay was about or just wasn't supposed to say. Not really sure. Point is, if you are wanting this particular ride, you might go ahead and start trying to see who around you has one of these coming in and see if you can get your name one the white with tech you want. Hopefully a dealer near you will have a premium plus package on the lot that you can drive. If you like the premium plus then you'll also like the tech pkg.
Hope this helps.
My source for the ZERO counts is my national dealer locator, not any of our reps. The locator seems to be more reliable.............. :sick:
Any firm data on lease packages that Hyundai will offer for either a V-6 w/Tech package or V-8 with Tech Package? The Hyundai website is back to saying "offer expired" under the special offer lease terms.
I know that you previously referenced a posting to another website with lease info but it seemed to have different info than the Hyundai site. Now that we are looking at $40k for a loaded V-6 MSRP then I am even more interested in a 24 or 36 month lease.
On a separate note, it is going to get tougher and tougher for automakers. Today GM reported sales -18.2%, Toyota reported -21.4% and Ford -28%!
Once some of those folks have gotten in and taken a ride, they're going to fight the very notion that Hyundai actually has produced a very, very nice car. At some point, they may even catch themselves asking, "Why pay more?" Just maybe.