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Comments
Hyundai invited a bunch of American auto journalist to its home ground -Namyang located in suburban area of Seoul, Korea - in May and held some comparison test drive event for them. I never heard that American journalists were invited to Korea for the launch of "A" new car. This is not trivial. Hyundai must pay all the flights, accomomdations, and other treats for that pre-sale. I know this would not be enough to grab full attention from the masses in the US. but, anyway, it seems sure that the Genesis is also special to Hyundai itself compared to other vehicles of its own.
Regarding the "market adjustment" (which is also called "additional dealer profit") -- just wait six-eight months after the novelty period is over. MOST large luxury cars will be heavily discounted. Gas will be $5.50/gal and rising. Other costs will be gong up. Paid raises will stagnate. People will be delaying auto purchases until they know the economy and oil prices are stabilizing. Then they will be likely looking for smaller more economical vehicles. That $2500 "market adjustment increase" will be a $2500 "decrease." They'll probably throw in a $500 gas card to boot.
On a positive note, I am pleased to read some very positive reviews. I'm pulling for Hyundai to do well with the Genesis. I'm in the "what should I do" mode right now. My Azera is only 2.5 years old and has only 20,000 miles. But I do like the Genesis. I'm worried about gas prices and other increasing costs, however, so I'm starting to think I should wait until next spring or so.
this isn't a truly loaded car. that would be $50,417 for one equipped with the premium package. which still isn't loaded, because the premium package can't be combined with the sport package (which isn't available at all on the Genesis). also the premium package includes many options that aren't available at all currently on the Genesis such as lane departure prevention, intelligent cruise, dvd players/screens in the front and back, rear heated and reclining seats. the tech package does include navigation with rearview monitor and a premium bose sound system, but doesn't have the power sunshade or "super-premium" sound system (both available on the premium package).
so you can get a comparably equipped car from a "luxury" make within a few thousand dollars of the Genesis (at MSRP). i also mentioned in a previous post the 2008 RL and CTS too. the 2009 RL is quite improved though. someone else said that the RL was just a gussied Accord, but as a previous Legend owner, the Accord (any generation) is no Legend (or RL). all those cars are still a few thousand dollars more (tmv), but you get consistently better dealer service, and a bit more "prestige" (however much that might be worth to someone). so the Genesis doesn't appear to be quite the slam dunk (pricing wise) as many people might think. then again, a year or two later, with discounts and model updates, who really knows?
So called up the dealer, and asked for a loaded M35 - got the following spec available on the lot: M35 with premium package, plus 18-in polished wheels with splash guards - $55,490 (MSRP), a little under 53K was the price offered. Of course, if I was remotely interested (and if I was, I would have probably waited for the next gen M anyway), I would certainly try to get the price further down a little. After the fact, I also found out there was factory cash available the dealer neglected to mention, that weasel
Anyway, back to the Genesis...
Did it occur to you though that other posters here were unaware of those omissions?
All I was saying, we heard you loud and clear the first time around...
Go ask Hyundai as to the reason (I think I have a pretty good idea though) but this is certainly not going to make me wanting to experience this car any less. This is the first Hyundai product where I am seriously considering, and probably not the last (hint hint Genesis Coupe).
Truth to be told, we all wish for the "perfect" car (insert vehicle here), and all of the features we want, and deletion of those we don't, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Some vehicles may come close, some vehicles may actually hit the sweet spot for some demographic but not others - this is not an one size fits all kind of deal.
I was taken by surprise when the major US auto journalists were invited out there. Without much saying, Hyundai is taking this vehicle seriously. Another press event was held late June in Santa Barbara, CA to test the Genesis, and more specifically, the North American versions of the vehicle, along with its competitors Hyundai USA brought along for the event.
After reading numerous reviews from the US journalists on both tests, the biggest difference I came away with is the suspension setup. Clearly the NA spec was made and catered to the NA market, and everyone had good things to say about it - a Hyundai with its handling as one of the strong points
Given the initial published Genesis list pricing, and the Hyundai competitive "benchmarks", it should be.
At these prices, what particle of difference would these 2 simple features amount to?
Invoice is just an arbitrary number that basically guarantees profit for the dealer. It is NOT a true dealer cost. Auto manufacturers and dealers are getting smarter in dealing with Internet-Age consumers.
Regarding market adjustment, it is determined by supply and demand. If dealers feel that the demand exceeds supply, they will jack up the price to adjust for it. There will be some consumers who want to be the first and pay the premium price. An analogy with the game consoles is a good one. And anyone shopping for a Wii last holiday season would know.
If you don't like market adjustments on cars (and I don't), your options are to wait for more supply to meet/exceed demand or to look elsewhere. Don't fall in love with one particular car or you'll pay more than others for it. Add the price adjustment to the car and shop for comparable cars. Even consider pre-owned (within 2-3 years). These are attractive since someone else has taken the biggest hit on depreciation. There are plenty of premium cars coming off lease. Just look around.
Just remember: You, the consumer, and the dealer combine to set the market value for a vehicle. The dealer can set their initial price (expecting the consumers to be willing to pay for it). But if they don't get a response from the consumers, they'll drop their price and/or offer incentives to move it off the lot.
I personally think that the "market adjustments" are kind of stupid. They were out there on the first Santa Fe as well, and if the market supports it, then ok. However, as I saw mentioned here earlier, if an item is selling THAT well, it wouldn't be sitting in inventory now would it..............
ALL items that are bought/sold in this country have their values determined at the point of sale. ALL things are worth what someone else is willing to pay for them. This goes for cars and sneakers. Joe consumer is willing to pay $XX,XXX for a Sonata/Genesis/M35 and when that cash trades hands the value of the product is established between THAT buyer and THAT seller. Same thing goes for a dealer taking a car in on trade or a guy buying a hamburger. There really isn't any difference.
Friday, I stopped by my local Hyundai dealer to see if they had any Genesis sedans on the lot. I pulled around the back side of the building...lo and behold, there it was. Now I thought the burgundy one at the auto show was nice, but the black one sitting on the lot was absolutely STUNNING!!!! It was a black 3.8 w/technology package and the window sticker was $36K. The interior was black with the brown leather dash.
Of course, it being the only one they had...I couldn't take it for a test drive. I asked him when he thought he would have more coming in so I could take one for a spin and he told me in about a week. I truly can't wait, the car is simply beautiful from any angle you look at it. I truly hope Hyundai does everything it can to market this car the way it should be, it has all the potential in the world to be THE car that changes everything for Hyundai. However, this is just MY opinion.
It really trips me out that the one area a lot of dealerships lack in, is the one that would bring them better business. Then again, maybe they're doing so well that they don't care if they sell cars or not. Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...that can't be it.
My understanding is that Fairfax Hyundai has a pretty good sales corp and I had a great experience out at Ken Dixon Hyundai in Waldor. Just a couple you can check out to see if you have a better experience as well. Good luck!
I've seen posts from Akuma that there is difference in leather, brakes, and of course engine, for $2000 more. Is that confirmed, or is the difference simply the engine?
Someone from Hyundai please confirm, I don't know if I should hold out for V8 if the only difference is the engine.
There are a couple of other extras such as illuminated scuff plates, some exterior chrome (which I thought looked really nice), electrochromic exterior mirrors, and a wood and leather steering wheel.
This info is taken straight off of my order guide, which I have been told is accurate. Seeing as how it has invoice amounts and package prices, it should be correct.
I'm with most of the other posters here, I would be all over the V8 for $2k more. I was told by one of the guys at my training session that he was using a V8 model for an airport shuttle and had been averaging about 24-25 MPG highway with it. I thought that sealed the deal. 375 horses and the tech pkg for $42k. No brainer.
Besides the engine, ZF's transmission is also recognized as more premium product than Aisin's(equipped in V6). With a more poweful engine and a more quick and precise gearbox, you could get more agile responsiveness in result(as you are aware of, V8 is 0.5 sec. quciker than V6 in 0 to 60mph test reported recently.)
This is the major difference you can get for extra 2K(or more?) dollars.
PS: It doesn't mean that Aisin's is a poor gearbox. Aisin is an affiliate of Toyota and.... also reliable
Personally it sounds like a better deal, but I need to first prove that I can sell my existing cat w/ V8 and convince her of the QPR, AND better gas mileage. Still it's going to be a challenge.
Just one question: how is it possible to buy something that you're not in love with? I mean, I'm not the type of guy who aims to be the first to own something, but I usually base my buying decisions on how well it would meet my needs, the price AND the emotion.
Any advice for someone like me who likes relatively rare trims like a (nearly) fully loaded manual transmission model? Is it still possible to negotiate a good price for a car that may have to be ordered from the factory?
But if you're so set on one car, don't ever let the salesman know you're in love with it. If he knows you can't live without it, you'll end up on the losing end throughout the buying process. Don't even tell him you really like the car. Just say that it's nice, but... and find "problems" to pick on, even if those problems are subjective (hard to argue with). Make it sound like you have to compromise (with your needs/emotions) to buy this car. "Yeah, that option is nice.. but I don't really need it!" :-) The rule of thumb is: the more (positive) emotion you show, the more you'll pay. Make it sound like you're buying a pair of work pants. ;-)
Another thing salespeople tend to ask (and they almost always do) is when you are looking to buy. Don't tell them you need a car tomorrow or next week (even if you do). Keep them interested by saying you're in the market (i.e. serious about buying) but are flexible and will buy once you find the "right" car. They will try to convince you that the car you're looking at is the "right" car. Yeah, but does it have the "right" price?! They don't want you to go somewhere else to find the right car. The dealers know that the moment you (the serious buyer) walk out that door, it's a potential loss sale, even if you already agree on everything and just want to bring your wife back to see it. That's why they invent all sorts of tactics to keep you in the dealership.
Talk about those tactics, they like to "beat you up and wear you down" while you're in there. People tend to make less sound judgement when they're pressured, in a hurry, or tired. Even wonder why you have to wait a long time for the sales manager to approve a "proposed" price? Once and a while, the sales manager would come out and try to close the deal. If you're not ready, just tell them staight up that you don't make decisions "on the spot".
As for custom order from the factory, I'd stay away from that. You're unlikely to get a good price if you custom order from the factory. As with anything rare/limited/collectible, you'll have to pay for it. And more often that not, the down payment is not refundable. They may say it is, but read the fine-print carefully. It's worded such that that custom option installed makes the down payment non-refundable. So, if you find issues with the car (or your preference changes, i.e. it's not what you thought it would be), you're stuck with it.
Good luck!
However, to answer (from one viewpoint anyway) the question about ordering a special car and pricing, I would like to take a stab. Most of the time the reason for discounting a car (or any other type of inventory) is to stimulate sales or to reduce inventory. If a dealer is having to order a car just for you and especially if it is not a mass market package as you have mentioned here, then there is no incentive to offer a discount. Most likely no other dealer is going to have an "oddball" package that they are trying to desperately give away unless they ordered it by mistake. Anyway, just thought I would offer one point of view.
I still don't have my FIRST Genesis!!!! This is getting silly. :mad:
Easy. If that something costs $40,000+, then I would really need to feel the love. If it costs $15,000, I will settle for a stable, friendly relationship that meets my basic needs.
Personally, I would LOVE to see a Bentley Continental GT in my driveway, or maybe an Audi R8. However, I'd TRULY love to see a Porsche 911 GT2. However, my bank account truly LOVES the Azera Limited that is currently gracing my driveway at this time.
When I was buying my most recent car, I ordered it from a dealer after the car I wanted was sold, I got the same price I negotiated for the car that was on the lot before someone else bought it.
Needless to say, I didn't do the swap. But that was only one of 1,322 problems I had with the four Hyundai dealerships I dealt with and some of the other problems were far far worse.
Figure out what the real price is, then make a fair deal based on how many there are on lots and what others pay. You obviously can't ask invoice on a car you have to order. So maybe 1k under MSRP if it's rare. Then go in determined. Like someone else said (and I know this person got this straight from a website) don't act like you're in love with the car and be a little nonchalant, but say this is what I want and this is what I will pay for it.
I was in somewhat of the same situaltion once, and it worked for me, but I may have been a little mean or intimidating.
In the example above, if things don't turn out the way you expect, then the dealer is stuck trying to sell a silver car with a brown interior. Imagine the discount he'll have to throw in to get anyone to buy it.
I know about this because I recently look to do a factory order of a Build Enclave.
So, I'd say those work for me.
Anyway...I tested a midnight blue 3.8 premium plus packaged Genesis ($36K). The dealer also had an ice blue standard premium package ($35K) and a black base model ($33K). I took my time to sit in the car, to touch the surfaces and see how everything looked and felt. The front seat is easy chair comfortable, but you don't sink down into it, the leather has a thick, supple feel to it. All the controls are well laid out and well marked. It takes no time to understand what controls what and how to operate everything, even the sound system was intuitive.
The dash has a very high quality feel to it. The surfaces that are not covered with the nice faux wood grain or leather have a very soft, supple feel to them. It has the same feeling as the top part of the dash in the Azera. The arm rest on the center console is even covered with actual leather (unlike the terrible leathertte in the Azera).
Okay, after sitting up front, I had to climb in back to see what the rear seat offered potential riders. I'm 6'2" and I weigh 215 lbs. With the driver's seat in the position I need it to be in to drive comfortably, I am able to climb in the back seat (behind the driver's seat) and sit with my knees together (in my Azera, I can sit behind the driver's seat, but my legs are open so that my knees are on either side of the seat back). Anyway, the reat seats offer a very comfortable seating position. Not quite as easy chair comfortable as the front seats, but not far off.
One feature I like is that the climate control for the rear riders isn't completely controlled by the front. On the back of the center console, you have two vents as well as a dial to either raise or lower the temp of the air and another to cut the air flow off. Also, on the B-pillar, there is another vent for the rear seat riders as well.
Another thing I liked is that they used brighter LED lights for the overhead lights.
Okay...on to the drive. With the key sitting in the cup holder of the center console, I pushed the brake down and pushed the start button. There's a slight pause (and you hear a couple things happening), then the car comes to life. The one I tested had the steering column set for easy out, so it lowered into place for me and afterwards, I adjusted (power adjust) it with the switch on the side of the column, set the seat the way I needed it and adjusted the mirrors.
I opened the sunroof and all the windows so I could listen to the car for a little while. Then...I eased on the gas to pull out of the lot. The car responds nicely to light touches on the gas pedal, it eased out onto the street and I straightened out and went on my way. Driving down the street, heads turned left and right as I cruised through the little town (doing no more than about 35 mph at this point). The car had a very, very solid feel. I purposely rode over any potholes or uneven spots of pavement to see how it handled them...nothing but poise.
I was able to work my way over to a road that allowed for some higher speed cruising, but there were a lot of lights so the drive was interrupted every so often. However, I was able to stomp on the gas pedal to get a feel for it's response. Acceleration is smooth and strong. It does lack the lower end torque, so it doesn't snatch you back, but...you do know you're accelerating briskly. The exhaust is quiet and you really don't hear much of a growl unless you're really into the accelerator and catching the higher end of the tach. The brakes, very smooth, quiet and confident.
I wasn't able to find any twists and turns to see how the body felt in transitions from a side to side type of action, but the feel I get when turning corners...I think it would handle those with a solid stability that you don't get in the Azera. There is certainly no floaty feel at all when driving the Genesis, you feel very connected to the road.
Okay...after all that, I had to have a little fun. On my way back to the dealership, I turned the ESC off and at an intersection, I punched the gas pedal and forced the back wheels to break traction, hit the turn and brought it back under control without any fuss...the balance of the car is extremely nice.
Well, that pretty much sums up my ride for now. Next time, I'm going to go back with the wife and we are going to take an extended cruise to really get a feel of how the Genesis handles downtown DC streets, see how it is on the highway and find some fun roads to tackle. Hopefully by then, they'll have the V-8 in stock and I can really have some fun.
P.S. Oh....as far as storage goes, I'm used to what my Azera offers so I didn't find storage to be a problem in the Genesis. One write up said that they would like to have seen more. Honestly, it's really hard to find anything that's really wrong with the car except for omissions like power side view mirrors. Power pedals really isn't needed considering the steering wheel telescopes, raises & lowers and the driver's seat adjusts plenty of ways to get you in the best position to drive.
I would assume that would mean that most all dealers should have them now or within a day or so.
The V8 wheels are so sharp!!
There's a a couple of places that offer aftermarket stuff for Hyundai's and I'm sure it won't be long before they have quite a few offerings to spruce up an already beautiful car (the Genesis). In case you're interested, the two best sites I've found for Hyundai aftermarket stuff:
Korean Auto Imports
Seoulful Racing
By the way, your review was extremely on point on every aspect. I test drove one today (3.8 w/premium plus package). I'm waiting for the 4.6 model to come along so I can test that one too.
Seems like everyone's waiting for the V8, especially given the slight change in price.
Believe it or not, I actually prefer the base V6 wheels