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I have yet to see a car manufacturer able to make the jump to luxury/performance vehicles and keep them in the same company.
The Diamante was initally comparable to the Acura Legend & the small Lexus but never mustered enough sales to continue it's climb. Similar was the Mazda Millenia, and just recently the Volkswagen Phaeton.
When folks want to move up to a premium vehicle they also want that premium nameplate (as pathetic as that may seem).
When you enter the higher price range do you really want to be driving a Mazda, Mitsubishi, or Volkswagen (just giving the previous examples)? These cars (especially the VW) may very well be great cars but at the end of the day they're utilitarian brands amongst rival luxury/performance nameplates. I'm sure the best Seiko watch is every bit as good as the cheapest Rolex, but what would 95% of the folks shelling out 1k want on their wrist? I AM rooting for Hyundai in this one, it's just gonna be a tough road IMO.
Not sure, but I think it would make for a pretty good match up to be honest.
I would love to know how they measure sometimes. All I can say is that my Avalon felt roomier and I was really surprised that when I got back into my car that I had another inch of seat travel. Nevertheless they are close enough that it shouldn't be a factor if deciding between the two. What is nice about the Avalon is the reclining rear seats and the flat rear floor.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Believe me I am sure it would be. Benefit of the doubt the Genesis was not broken in yet. I do know that with all 3 of my Toyota's they got faster and better FE once they were fully broken in. Was your Azera this way?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
If the Genesis were to prove to be the same way...WHOA!!! :surprise:
Never too late to start
By the way, I am a Seiko guy
2009 Genesis with premium package $35,000
The question I have, is the genesis with premium package worth $10,000 more than the Azera. Is it really that much better???
Ultimately, a RWD is hands down the better choice for me over FWD models so to answer your question, yes.
The Genesis is the cheapest of the group, but the only one going for a premium over MSRP while everyone else is going for a substantial discount. By the time the V8 arrives, the discounts might even be steeper.
I loved the Genesis 3.8 Tech I test drove Today and would have bought it on the spot if I could get it for around 36K or even 37K. Maybe in a couple of months reality will sink in at the Hyundai dealers and their "Market Adjustments" will follow the industry trend: Downwards...
I drove a Genesis Tuesday night and although I made it clear I was not buying until my lease ends early next year they were ready to deal and there was no "ADM" on the sticker. Shop around you will find a dealer to knock some $$ of the sticker price.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
It's all about supply and demand, as simple as that.
However, you say the 2008 Azera can be had for just under $25K, but what about the 2009 Azera? There was a posting saying the sticker on one with the ultimate package was just over $30K, with rebates and such...probably get it for about $28K.
Anyway, back to the comparo. In my opinion...the Genesis is that much better than the Azera. Better materials inside the cabin, better driving dynamic, better ride comfort, better handling, more power without sacrificing FE, and more room. Yeah...I would pay the $36K to get the Genesis 3.8 with the premium plus package as opposed to $28K for an '09 Azera with the ultimate package. Honestly though...I think I would hold off and get the 4.6 w/tech package for $42 (maybe under $40 by the time I'm ready to make a move.
However, this is just MY opinion.
The fact that it's a low volume car will actually buffer whatever price adjustments they may have to make.
Competition is a good thing, and this should start the process of getting Lexus, Infiniti and maybe Mercedes and BMW to become more realistic about their prices.
FWIW, I do see deflation headed to the U.S. Even Volkswagen announced the new Passat will be $20,000 versus the current $25,000, and that the new Jetta will be $15,000 versus the now current $17,200 (base prices).
for the hundreds of thousands of folks that buy those cars every year - the prices ARE quite realistic and those mfgrs. KNOW (quite well) what those cars are worth every time they sell one. It is those folks that would even put the name Hyundai in the same sentence as those other brands, that would likely never understand what those particular products are really worth and would certainly not pay the extra $ for. Whether or not there are any substantial differences, or even if those differences 'justify' the higher prices in anybody's opinion is not the point.
My guess is that the Genesis is doomed simply because of where you have to go to buy one, a really poor economic climate right now, and a price that is too cheap. To justify excuse any car's 'failure' by simply saying it is intended on being 'low volume' is a cop-out of sorts. I assure you that Hyundai would be quite happy to have to deal with a car that they can't make enough of - and if that was the case - increase production to do it.
So many have 'guessed' doom on Hyundai over the years: the 10 year warranty, the purchase of Kia (Hyundai/Kia sales up a combined 17% last month in a seriously depressed market), the recent near luxury offerings (Veracruz, Azera) which give Hyundai only a slight price advantage over their competitors, but offer serious value and are receiving legitimate acclaim by owners and press (I won't even go into the recent Sonata--which is argueably the new sleeper of the mid-size category and every bit as good as an Accord and better than a Camry). And yet Hyundai continues to legitimize every single offering by incrementally advancing market share and leap-frogging competitors (overtaking Honda this year for 5th place worldwide). Now I know that they aren't selling a ton of Veracruz's and Azera's, but they are increasing sales and entering new segments while enhancing their brand image. The Genesis is their foray into the luxury segment and their business decision to forego the separate brand was to save a billion plus dollars while probably selling more Sonata's and Elantra's.
Doomed? The best predictor of future performance is past performance and 'doomed' isn't quite what I'd predict.
(Kindly refrain from raising the issue of the XG350. The Genesis is a $400 million new platform, rwd, legitimate driving dynamics, etc. Also avoid any mention of the name 'Phaeton', as the avg. Genesis will never sell beyond $40k and Hyundai knows this.)
As for the "low volume" comment, I think the original poster you responded to meant for only for this year and the US market, which it is very much a partial year. To be fair, the Genesis IS on the low end in terms of volume is concerned, as are most other mid-to-large luxury sedans (avg. anywhere between 1-3K units/month).
a price that is too cheap
On the Genesis? I believe the $399 lease special will continue. Hyundai will be able to do this b/c the predicted residual (from ALG) value is estimated at 66% after three years, and 50% after two years, in top crop in terms of rankings go.
As for deflation of prices, I will believe it when I see it, especially for European makers like VW (wake me up when Passat & Jetta come down to the same level as competitors). Cost of steel, for example, have risen dramatically, as are everything else. FWIW, I have not seen many car lowering its prices, except going up year after year.
Not the only automaker.
Either they can't spell, or they have a car none of us know about...
Edit: all other mentions the referenced subject seems to be correct, and the top link went to the right place, thankfully
Before going to Coconut Creek I had been to another dealer who told me over the phone they would lease one at the same price that Jeff had posted a week or so ago but when it came to making the deal they wanted a larger down payment and almost $100 more per month.
The 2008 750 [last year for that body] list is about $80,000! The new Passat CC with the same configuration as our 2006 is up to $37,000, which is $5,000 higher that our 2006 Passat. The price is very close to the Genesis V6, so I test drove one. It's certainly not a 750 but at almost half the price it's a great car. I'm waiting for a V8 Genesis. Any way you look at it, you can't get anything with the Genesis quality at that price. Case closed!!
There's a couple ways you can look at it. If you were presented a fully loaded V-8 model and removed the badging and nobody knew the car was made by Hyundai and someone were to ask you how much do you think the car is worth...you would probably put it in the $50K range.
However, knowing it's a Hyundai makes you question if it's even worth $33K (for the base model).
The real question is do YOU think the base model is worth $33k? Go out here and take a look around at other offerings for the same amount and see what you get in that car...compare everything. I say this because you'll get a bunch of answers ranging from "Heck no!" to "It's worth more." The reality of it is...what do YOU think?
I for one...think the base model is worth the $33K, but I think the value is either going to be in the 3.8 w/Premium Plus Package ($36K) or the 4.6 w/Tech Package ($42K). However, that's just MY opinion.
I am very excited to see that there are a number of BMW, M-B, and Audi owners here that have taken an interest in the Genesis. I think that this fact speaks volumes as to the appeal that this car has, as well as to the strides in reputation that Hyundai has made in the last 5-10 years.
I think that it is also very encouraging that the Audi and BMW owners have been as impressed as they have been with the quality of the Genesis. These people should have a pretty good idea as to what constitutes a well made automobile, and as such, are a good frame of reference for a new model.
On a seperate note, I found out this week that every dealer in Arkansas that has a Genesis on the ground has a markup of at least $2k on them!! I guess I should have expected this, but I was still a little shocked. I can't wait for my first speech about how MSRP on my car is cheaper than my competition!!!
A car is just a car. In the end there is nothing to be had other than getting you from point A to point B. However, what takes us from the $10k Accent with no air or radio to the $400k Maybach is how we want to get there. What kind of comfort and style do we feel during the journey.
If a person is just looking for transportation, then heck no, the Genesis isn't worth $33k, and no other car is either. You need to get a scooter. Or a bus pass. But if you want to ride in a bit of style and a wealth of comfort, then it will cost more than the basics. Just like bacon and cheese cost more on a hamburger. If you factor in the amount of creature comfort, style, and luxury that the Genesis brings in comparison to other offerings on the market, then I think the case is pretty easy to make for the new Hyundai flagship.
By the way, I totally agree with the last poster that the base Genesis really isn't the best deal. Some of the packages offer much better bang for your buck.
Personally, I'll take a fully loaded Azera Limited for just under $30K rather than the base Genesis, but that Genesis 3.8 w/premium plus is lookin REALLY nice.
as stated, and there are the drivers who when they turn on their car, they want their car to turn them on!
I think you'll find BTW that the Korean market share gains come almost entirely at the expense of the former Big 3 - and not necessarily folks like Honda and Toyota who are reporting record breaking profits.Not that Hyundai doesn't deserve a lot of that gain - they have a product line that any of those 'Detroit' companies should be willing to kill for. If Hyundai is forced to sell a V8 Genesis for under $40k as you suggest, this would not be a good thing IMO - I thought the idea behind the whole car was to correct a rather sullied reputation - NOT to continue that reputation as a car that is prone to big discounts and therefore questionable resale values.If the Genesis really is going to be a viable competitor to the Japanese and German sedans they are targeting, then they also need to sell it like one.
thank you - because how in the world can anybody think the car is too expensive??? Objectively.
For what the car actually is, it plainly isn't too expensive. Unless, of course, it is those people out there that can't get a grip on a 'premium' car that happens to be called a Hyundai.
A Lexus GS/LS, an Infiniti M, and the German 5s, 7s, As, Es and Ss all cost substantially more, sell at real world prices that are at least related to MSRP, have solid resale values and are still not be considered to be expensive for those folks that want cars of those capabilities. But Hyundai can't? Even if the car itself qualifies? :confuse:
Hopefully they can - but their timing is about as bad as it gets.
Can you pl. tell me which dealer you bought the car from? I stay in Detroit and only one dealer has agreed to sell the car at sticker or honor the lease deal offered by Huyndai. Even then, he is probably looking at larger down payment on the lease. If I can get the quote from your dealer that would be nice. I am too looking at only Premium package.
Thanks.
Not sure what you meant by that. Can you please clarify that? Thanks Captain2!
My observation is that most vehicles in the 40 to 50 thousand dollar range have real world prices significantly below their MSRP. They also have some great lease programs that are subsidized. Why should Hyundai be any different after the Genesis becomes available in larger numbers.
I was leaning towards getting a Genesis with the Tech package. I went to lease one Today, and the dealer says that the lease program is no longer available. Might wait a few days and look at what lease programs the competition comes up with in August.
PS: The suspension issue is totally mechanical thing, right? so remove some subjectivity there like 'expectations' because the suspensions of the Genesis is meeting the expectations of many of thow who drive it as what it IS now. And drivers, roads, climate in Korea are undoubtedly as diverse as any other country's. 20,000+ Genesis' and the same number of unique and diverse drivers have been there.
Simple - Hyundai vehicles are EXPECTED to sell for higher discounts, with more incentives and with better warranties than many of those cars they are competitive with. I would suggest you wait for your Genesis if you can, a purchase price (or a lease cost) has nowhere to go but down. This would be true of almost any really new vehicle, honeymoons only last so long.
I tried both an original iPhone and a new 3G iPhone.
Anyone have any ideas what the problem might be?
P.S. The car is great!