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Comments
The lease deal that HMA is "offering" almost certainly has the dealer discounting the car down to around invoice. Sounds like most dealers are not currently willing to discount the Genesis much at all, and certainly not to an invoice deal.
That should be where the difference is in the payment. Not sure on the monthly lease charge. My state has something called a "rental receipt tax" on leases. I think these taxes are designed to make up for some of the revenue lost on a lease versus a purchase.
So, I mostly view "lease deals" as a bait and switch technique. If you call the dealership and mention it, they will always say "yes" to the advertised lease programs. Then when you get there, you find out that they really won't go that low.
I was actually so disturbed by my experiences that I called Hyundai corporate offices to complain and they reaffirmed to me that dealerships have full freedom to modify the lease terms as they see fit. The advertised "lease deals" are really just a best case scenario that depends upon the dealership's willingness to discount the car to rock bottom pricing. In fact, with the 06 Azera lease deal, the cap. cost was $1000 BELOW invoice (via a Hyundai rebate) and one dealership told me that they would actually LOSE money on the car short term since Hyundai wouldn't reimburse them for quite a long time. Most dealerships just aren't willing to do that -- especially the smaller low volume dealerships.
My intent was not to debate the Accord purchase or get off topic. I really only need safe and reliable transporation. The Genesis has the appeal to make me consider I wanted MORE than the fully loaded Accord - or other sedan in that class. The issue I had was with the dealer purchase experience and decline in past service from this dealer. Any new car, regardless of make or model, from this dealer would have resulted in a similar situation. So in a way the comfort level with the dealer is also a need (and not just a want) to feel good about the whole thing.
That was the only point I am making. Sorry if we are getting off topic.
A dealer may or may not have the model in stock that is being advertised. Also, the main issue is this, the mfr is giving away money that doesn't belong to them. It's like buying my lunch on your tab without your permission.
In the end, the mfr gets off the hook by having the fine print say that the advertised lease rate is dependent on "dealer contribution". This "problem" is NOT Hyundai exclusive by any means, and really , this all boils down to reading the only part of ANY ad of any kind that matters, the tiny print at the bottom. That's where the details are.
Also, I would hesitate to say that the scenarios that I see here are "bait and switch". Especially not to the dealer. The dealer did not advertise the lease and did not advertise the terms. If a person asks for a $XXX/mo lease, the dealer can say yes to that and set the money factor and final transaction price any way they like. You will have to make up the difference in cash to get to the payment that YOU want.
As to suing the mfr, or the dealer. Think about this. When the ad says in print that the retailer will set the final price, how can it then be illegal to do so? One should read ALL of the details before getting too far into something as complicated as a lease. If you come to terms on the price of the car first, and then decide on your method of financing (cash, installment loan, lease), you will probably save yourself a lot of headache.
One last thing. Most all of the lease deals you see on TV say in the fine print that they are EXAMPLES. It doesn't matter if it's Hyundai, M-B, Lexus, or Daewoo. They are just examples.
This has been beaten to death............................. :mad:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Overall sales or just car sales???
A strange assertion - Toyota is the only one of the 3 mfgrs you mention that is really in the truck/large SUV business.
It is very difficult to sell a Tundra or Sequoia these days. and I would imagine that those sales are down a whole lot more than a mere 11%. Depending on Toyota's product mix they may actually have INCREASED their car market share relative to Hyundai (or Honda).
Toyota July 08 sales figures
Hyundai July 08 sales
Honda July 08 sales
Gosh, I hope they add a gray like interior.
Does anyone know of any other changes to the V8 that have not already been announced
Reading all the above talk of poor dealer representation of the product do I re think my position of spending $42K!!
But, Sequoia was up quite a bit in July and are going strong YTD.
Also, relative to Hyundai and Honda, Toyota did not advance higher in terms of market share, compared to other makers with smaller declines, that is.
I think the advertised lease deals are the "best" possible scenario if everything comes together and the dealer is willing to discount the price substantially. It goes up from there depending upon the dealership and what they're willing to do. I think that's true for ANY auto maker, not just Hyundai, although I only have experience with Hyundai and Acura.
And whether you see the lease deals advertised in print or on TV, there's always that 500 word miniature print disclosure at the end which lays out all of those "however" terms.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0810_2009_hyundai_genesis_first_t- est/engine_transmission_specs.html
We've got a game changer here...
This and all of the other reviews basically confirmed the Genesis is a legit luxury sedan.
M/T threw some impressive numbers tested from the car and more than favorable commentary/impressions.
Interesting to note the residual values over 3 years, in particular, for the Genesis has been predicted to be tops in the class, higher than BMW 550i, Lexus GS460, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E550 - this has been a weak spot for Hyundai, but with the onslaught of quality products, the tide seems to be changing.
By the way, it's about time someone starts to use an actual name on their car
Here's the web site to check it all out: http://www.hyundaiusa.com/shoppingtools/byo/model.aspx?vehicle=Genesis
I am really looking forward to seeing a full complement of comparison tests from MT, C&D, and the rest.
Try one more thing. Plug the iPhone into the input while the audio system is off and make sure you have the MP3 player already playing, then turn the audio system on and see if it picks it up then.
Since I have not seen a lease section for the Genesis, I thought I would post how my lease deal came out, since I think it was a really great deal.
The Deal
-------------------------
2009 Hyundai Genesis V6 - With Premium Package
MSRP $35,000 (includes $750 destination charge)
24 Month Lease
12k Miles Per Year
$1500 total out of pocket (includes tax, title, everything)
$435.00 a month (includes tax and everything)
I don't know about you, but that is a stellar deal. A few notes about how they got there. First, I was turning in my leased 2006 Hyundai Azera, so there was some lease loyalty customer cash available. The dealership had some kind of $500 coupon available that they allowed me to use. Note also that they somehow rolled my last two payments on my Azera into the lease ($427.00 a month for the Azera). They said something about Hyundai having some type of deal to help absorb those, I don’t know if they were just talking about the loyality cash or what.
I have been pricing out leases on cars for months, this is the best deal I have seen.
Driving Impressions
----------------------------
I drove 80 miles to pick up this car. I had never even driven a Genesis before, so this was a bit of a leap of faith.
My Genesis is the Cabernet Pearl Red color. Wow, what a color. I was a little worried about the color, since I had not seen it in person, and in pictures, it looked a little bit boring, but when I pulled up and saw it waiting for me out front, shinning in the sun, I would take this color over all the others, it just sparkles. In short, you can't go wrong with the red.
The interior is what I call the "football" brown color. The floor is black, the doors have black on them, and the dash and seats are wrapped in brown leather. My wife was hot for that Lexus a few years ago that had the Coach leather interior, this is what the brown reminded me of. The first thing I noticed is when I put my hand on the driver seat to lean in and look at the dash. This is leather you want to touch. I have owned a Jag S-Type, 300C, various Toyota leather clad vehicles, and this leather is the nicest I have ever seen or touched, it is buttery smooth. Wait a sec, I gotta go fondle my car, be right back.
Let me be frank, there is just no way this car should be $35,000, it should be more, or at least, I shouldn't be allowed to drive it for a measly $435 a month (though I am glad I am
Ok, let’s talk about the drive. It's accelerates smooth, smoother than the Azera. The V6 is a beast, and will embarrass throngs of other vehicles out there. Some mag tested it at 6.3 seconds to 60, i'll take it. The car feels tight, put together well, a whole different ball game than the Azera. The Azera was nice, but this is Niiiccceee.
Here are the only complaints I have so far. The first one is a weird one. There isn't any place for your sunglasses! Strange omission, all I can assume is that they got the interior looking just great, and someone forgot along the way. Also, the bluetooth module seems to take the space where the sunglasses would go. Oh well, I am parking my sunglasses above the sun visor... no big deal, but it surprised me a little.
The other thing I noticed however is a slightly bigger deal, on my drive to work, I travel 20 miles on a concrete highway. Got to tell you, at least for my first run, that it was pretty bouncy. I am trying to be optimistic, and hope that since the car only has 100 miles on it, that things need to loosen up a little, and I need to get use to the car. However as far as this morning’s commute is concerned, unfortunately, my Azera was a smoother ride. If any other Genesis owners have experienced this, and know if it changes, improves, or whatever, I would appreciate hearing from you.
Anyways, it’s an awesome car, I'm paying per month what I was for my Azera, and it's much better. So go get one while they still have these crazy residuals and money factors. So what are you waiting for, you're still reading this aren’t you!!!
Congratulations! Would you mind posting the "net cap cost" on the Genesis lease deal? Also, please post the money factor number and the residual percentage. I'd really be interested in those.
I would assume that the money factor and residual numbers are all pretty standardized for all Genesis leases. The net cap cost, however, is where the variations will probably occur. It is that variable that makes the difference in what the bottom line monthly payment will be. If you were able to negotiate a lower cap cost --- maybe $500 over invoice or even at or below invoice with rebates -- then you can probably get close to the "advertised" lease deal numbers. If, on the other hand, the dealer wants more "profit" and charges close to MSRP for the net cap cost, then your monthly payment could skyrocket.
I'm just curious to know what your specific numbers were.
The difference between the top (17 speaker) Lexicon system and the regular (14-speaker) one is the addition of 2 mid-drivers in the front doors and the added tweeter for the center.
You're right, the system does sound very, very good. Personally, I would prefer a little more umph from the lower frequencies as you lose some of that when cruising at highway speed with the windows down.
I tested a 3.8 w/Premium Plus (18" wheels)...ride was very compliant, yet stiffer than that of my Azera (which by the way...I don't have the suspension problems with my Azera), anyway... The suspension of the Genesis soaked up road irregularities, dips and pot holes with a firm control that didn't translate much to the steering wheel. Is the ride as soft as that of the Azera, not at all. I think with the Genesis, Hyundai found a good balance between highway cruiser/and semi-sport tuning because you certainly don't get the body roll in turns and corners that you get with the Azera.
In short, while I do love the ride in my Azera (especially on the highway), the Genesis offers a much better all around suspension in my opinion.
Great review by the way.
I'm pretty sure it's the cable. Now that I have actually read the manual, it specifically says not to use the cable that came with the phone to plug into a computer. I have ordered the cable over the internet which is made by Hyundai specifically for several 2009 cars including the Genesis. I know the dealer where I bought the car has the cable but they are some distance away so I figured it was easier to order it over the internet and have it delivered to the door. Takes a little longer but easier.
Someone posted the location of the speakers. There is more than one under some of the covers. I can not critasise the sound system at all. I think it is awesome. I think the most I have ever had in a car before is eight speakers. We only have five in the house. I may park the car in the living room.
Thanks
Here is the original deal on a $33,000 Genesis V6 Base (remember, I am getting some help since I am already a Hyundai owner):
Genesis V6 MSRP: $33,000, Payment $ 425.10. No additional or hidden costs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 LEASE # Proposal 16 RES ADDS 26 DOC FEE 50.00
2 LEASE DATE 08/04/2008 17 ACQ FEE $595.00 27 DOC UPFRONT Yes
3 STOCK # open 18 ACQ UPFRONT No 28 WARR PREM No
4 PRICE $32,360.00 19 TRADE #1 none 29 MAINT PREM No
5 20 PAYOFF #1 none 30 WARR UPFRONT No
6 TERM 24 21 CASH DOWN $1,000.00 31 GAP PREM No
7 ADVANCE PYMT 1 22 REBATE $2,500.00** 32 GAP UPFRONT No
8 RATE .00080 23 REGISTERED STATE MN 33 SEC DEPOSIT None required
9 DAYS 30 24 COUNTY CODE TOT INIT PMT $3,500.00 ($1,000 cash)
10 M.S.R.P. $33,000.00 25 COUNTY RATE ADJ RESIDUAL $21,780.00
11 RESIDUAL .66 GOVT FEES $449.25
12 ALLOW MI/YR 12000 TAXES $590.30
13 EST MI/YR 12000
14 CENTS/MILE BEGIN $ 0.15
15 CENTS/MILE END $ 0.20
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what do you think? I know I could have probably beat them up for a few more dollars saving per month, but I don't think I could have moved the monthly price very much.
Pulling it in the living room could present a few problems, imagine having to clean up the tire marks on your floors!!! :surprise:
The only thing that makes me think that may not be it, is the car has a tire pressure monitoring system, so you would think fudging with the tire pressure by anyone would set the system off. I know in our other car, I let the air out by about 8 pounds on one tire, and the system started complaining.
I'll check into it.
You know...another thing too...the seats. While the seats in the Genesis are soft to the touch and comfortable to sit in, they are quite a bit firmer than those in the Azera. I know in my Azera...I sink in a bit so that also contributes to the "soft" ride you feel. Just a thought.
I mean...after driving the Azera and getting used to it, something that's got a firmer suspension could take some getting used to.
The TPMS won't make too much fuss unless it falls below a certain point. You could very well be suffering from too much air in the tires.
I recall that the early reviews of the Azera made it sound like the next best thing to a Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW, etc. and no problems. That's what led me to it, as I had never even noticed Hyundai before. Many of us later learned, it's a good car, but not without a few problems. Perhaps Hyundai has some qualtiy control problems internally or with it suppliers. This has been a killer for several American makes over the years.
The V-6 on the Coupe will be producing 309 hp and the turbo-charged 4-banger that will kick out 223 hp.
What would really be sweet is the Coupe being offered with the V-8...WHOA!!!
It seems a little odd that HMA would advertise the V8 with premium fuel and then leave the V6 with regular, but it is what it is. Matter of fact, the books on the Genesis do not even offer a premium fuel rating on the V6. Just seems odd.
One other note. On the leases, the money factor IS something that can vary. Just like a dealer can mark up a finance rate to make some back end money, they can mark up the money factor also. Additionally, the MF will vary based on credit quality. Just thought you would like to know.
I guess with the V-6, it's not so much about the power, but bang for the buck and with the V-8, well...it's about the power, but even at 368 HP...that's still a damn good number!!!
This is why my husband swears by never buying a new model in the first year.
sthede, are you sure your tire pressure is okay?
Thanks.
I've been reading your very knowledgeable comments on this forum and so I thought I should direct my question straight to you -
I'm currently driving a Acura MDX and the lease on which runs through Jan 09. I've decided that the Genesis 4.6 will be my next car.
Now do you think the current lease special on the Genesis will last until then? Or do you think that by then the dust might have settled and I could possibly buy the car at an even more bargain price (somewhere between invoice and msrp) ? I know you don't have a crystal ball but to answer my question I give you the authority to assume you have one.
Reportedly, Hyundai has been manipulating or upgrading V8 Tau engine(super charge or turbo charge or expanded displacement or whatever) for VI project or another version of the Genesis(just guessing). but has no plan to do that on V6. For the Genesis Coupe, its V6 may get some tunned but not for the Genesis sedan.
I would have no reason to doubt the full power what this engine could ouput. In the days of "MPG", however, consideration of optimizing both fuel economy and power is in, even for a car like the Genesis.
That said, other markets (outside of the domestic market) such as Russia or China are both good candidates, along with a luxury brand to boot, especially considering Hyundai is the #1 foreign brand in the Russian market, and in China, Hyundai has historically done well there.
http://ask.cars.com/2008/08/hyundai-azera.html
They are claiming that the Azera is a more comfortable car than the Genesis?
Those of you that have bought the Genesis, what have been your impressions so far? The city I live in has terrible roads, and I wonder if the Azera is a better choice for ride comfort than the Genesis for my husband and I.
Thank you
First, roads you think would give the Genesis trouble, it glides over. However, only certain types of road anomalies seem to cause the bounce.
Second, my Genesis 3.8 only has 120 miles on it, and I have only had it two days now. I guess I should really give myself time to get use to the car, and to let the car break in a little.
Someone mentioned the seats being a little different between the Azera and the Genesis, I agree with that. This bouncy ride issue I have experienced may very well subside once the seats get broken in. Hey, I would imagine the seats have some type of spring, coil or something in them, and that could cause a bounce when they are brand-new.
I took it for a spin just for fun again tonight, and I didn't notice the bounce very much. But I will watch for it again tomorrow going to work (my test track), and see if it returns.
More Driving Impressions
------------------------------------
As I mentioned above, I took out my Genesis 3.8 for a spin, just for fun. I came away with a smile on my face. Let me tell you, this car is FAST. Man, I punched it getting on the highway, and I was at 80 so fast, scary. I have had so many cars, Mustang GTs, Jags, 300c, even a Stealth Twin Turbo, and this is as fast as any of them. I am sure that the V8 is a beast, but if anyone out there is on the fence about the V6, that the 290 hp isn't enough... then maybe you should be looking at sports cars instead of luxury 4 door sedans.
My wife drove it tonight, to run an errand, her biggest complaint was no sunglass holder, and she thought a general lack of storage space. I don't think I agree about the storage space, theres enough. But I do agree about the sunglass holder. She also thought the steering wheel should telescope out a little further, on that I agree, another inch would be perfect, but otherwise it fits me really well, these are nit picks only.
Just Google their name to get to their site if you want.
My sales guy was Alan, so you could give him a call and get the straight facts on the deal, hes a nice guy, im sure he would love to sell another Genesis.
Well today I started my odyssey to put a remote start into my Genesis. The big road block here is the push button start, and the proximity key system. In my small town, we have most dealerships, and a few after market shops, but no one even knows what a Hyundai Genesis is, much less how to handle a complex problem like putting a remote start into a push button car. The first few places said they couldn't do it, cause they don't know anything about a Genesis.
Then I spoke to a service manager at a Hyundai dealership who said that during training on the Genesis, the engineers told everyone they recommended not adding a remote start, since it may mess up the proximity key system.
So in desperation I called the dealership I got my Genesis from (they are far away, which is why i didn't call them first), and they had not heard of any warning like that, but they felt very confident they could add one, and had a big after market shop they thought could handle it. Should hear back tomorrow as to what they find out from their uber installer.
I have read that with other models, like the Prius, or the Infiniti M, and so on, that some people say that you must sacrifice one of your smart keys, and have it permanentely mounted in the car. And from what I understand, this kills the whole proximity system. Well, in my opinion, that sucks. I then read some people claiming that if done correctly, you can indeed add a remote start to push button start cars, but you had better use someone who knows what they are doing.
So if anything, a small warning about adding remote start, that it may wind up being a larger than normal headache. Ill keep you posted as to how this comes out. Meanwhile, if anyone else knows anything about this, I would love to know.