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Comments
What did the Lexus LS460 owner say when he drag raced the Hyundai Genesis V8?
I don't know, I was to far ahead to hear what he said...
...
But I think he said something about 'god', 'save 30 grand', and 'its not fair'.
Lol... we can rip the LS a little can't we? This is the Genesis forum after all.
(yes, i have just the v6, but for the sake of the joke...)
The 4.6L V8 in the GS is tuned down (and w/o DI I think) from the SAME engine in the LS. I guess Lexus doesn't want the GS to steal the thunder from its flagship. Based on the numbers, the Hyundai Tau V8 is very impressive and neck to neck with Lexus' 4.6L.
As for the V6 I think the 2GR still has a slight advantage over the Hyundai 3.8L V6. However, that gap is really virtually unexist in real world driving, moothness, on the other hand is another story. Since I haven't tried the V6 Genesis myself I really couldn't comment on that but so far I haven't seen a single review about any other V6 that has yet to out-smooth the Toyota 2GR-FSE.
So...do you compare a luxury sport sedan to a luxury sedan or do you compare a luxury sedan to a luxury sedan?
Trust me, the GS is about as "sporty" as the Genesis... I think we can safely say that it is an apple-to-apple comparison. Maybe a granny smith vs. Fuji but you get the idea...
you'll find SOME that will.
Between LS and Genesis? On a serious basis? I highly doubt it.
those tired of paying the premium dollar for gas and maintenance
Those people don't BUY a LS/7/S, they LEASE a 3-series...
I think any people who didn't live in a cave for the last 20 years knows that US has the lowest price for cars...
Was my "Genesis price in Korea" post that stupid, useless, and offensive?
Honest answer? Yeah, it was kind of stupid and useless, but not offensive.
That's simple, he won't.
When's the last time you see a LS in a drag race?
5.4 sec LS is not that far fast than 5.6-5.7 sec Genesis.
I think Hyundai is not yet final tuned their V8 engine and suspensions yet.
V8 Genesis could be little more faster depends on how they finalize the tuning.
0.2 to 0.3 sec differences in real street race is only matter of who's foot is faster and which one wears sticker tires.
The LS forum is a few forums over...
The LS forum is a few forums over...
Did I bring up the LS in the first place?
Did I bring up the Lexus in the first place?
So you are saying that only "you people" can make a comparison between the Genesis and other makes and models but "us people" can't?
WOW!!
:sick:
Who here actually is going from Lexus to Genesis?
That's the wrong question to ask. I'd love to buy a Lexus for all the obvious reasons, but there's no way I'll pay what they're asking. On the other hand, to get a Genesis that is so close in quality for significantly less, that's a no brainer.
So the question in my mind is not who will go from a Lexus to a Genesis, but who is a first time luxury car buyer comparing the two. That's what Lexus needs to worry about.
Not really, because from what you've said:
" I'd love to buy a Lexus for all the obvious reasons, but there's no way I'll pay what they're asking."
It doesn't look like you'll be buying a Lexus with or without the Genesis, so to Lexus you are not even one of its "potential first time customer".
However, it's another story if a buyer who has his heart set dead on the GS but once he found out about the Genesis he quickly jumped ship. That's what Lexus has to worry about. Lexus also has to worry about how many of its current owners are willing to trade in their GS/ES/LS for a Genesis. Like I boldly stated, I personally don't think that number will be anywhere close being significant. The potential Genesis buyers, IMO, are more of the "upgrade customers".
We gots plenny to talk about just focusin' on this new vehicle.
Thanks!!
Historically - and according to Edmund's own data - Lexus, for example, retains a much higher percentage of it's original cost when it comes to to sell or trade compared to Hyundai. No one really knows how well the value of the Genesis will hold up over time. Hopefully, it will be better than Hyundai in general.
You may save now on the acquisition, only to lose the advantage when it comes time to sell or trade.
That's probably why BMW never really impressed me as much as Lexus or Cadillac. I like a plush riding car, as my husband would call it.
1. Hyundai doesn't have a reputation of making luxury cars.
I know this is obvious, but it's going to be a problem for them in attracting buyers who view themselves as upwardly mobile. The Huyndai is a thrifty man's luxury car; a car for the guy who prefers buffets to cafes. It's going to be hard to impress your friends more with a Hyundai than with a Mercedes, no matter how nice the Hyundai leather is.
2. The Japanese had to build separate dealerships (Acura/Lexus/Infiniti) to allow them to give luxury-level customer service. VW didn't do that, and thus didn't manage to give its luxury customers the service they expect.
BMW has personal service advisors who greet their clients by name. The advisors give free BMW loaners during service; and offer pastries and coffee to waiting patrons. Every car is washed before it's returned to the customer.
Is Hyundai going to be able to pamper its new customers enough to keep any conquests from the current luxury brands? I don't believe that they can.
A great steak taken from the buffet may be just as delicious as the one delivered to your table by your French waiter, but once you're used to being waited on, you stop being willing to wait in the line at the buffet just to save a few bucks.
Perhaps with the exception of exotics, which actually appreciates in value, the mass vehicles are depreciating assets, especially in the luxury segement, where they'd drop like rocks. If you can find a luxury mainstream car that somehow retains 80% of its value after two years, I am writing a check right now
Maybe this headline may have you re-think about your statement/theory: ALG has predicted the Genesis V8 with higher residual value than BMW 550i, Lexus GS460, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E550 after three years; similarly on the V6, although slightly better.
If the Genesis becomes a failed product in the US, then, and if nothing else, it would have no doubt solidified the rest of the vehicle lineup and overall image. Actually, it has already. The intangible benefits of the Genesis (and forthcoming Genesis Coupe) is something Hyundai can count on for years to come.
By the way, if steak at both locations taste the same, then I would pick the steak from the buffet line. I've found generally it takes longer waiting for someone to service your hungry stomach, than getting it yourself
Simply speaking, the Phaeton was overpriced and the Genesis is underpriced. thus the value each brings to you is significantly different.
the Phaeton buyers shoud pay as much as MB or Bimmer buyers to get no BMW or MB-ish luxo image car. on the other hand, the Gunesis buyers pay 10K~30K less for less luxo image and the same level of driving performance. then, the Genesis buyers can justify their purchase being 'fair' not like the Phaeton buyers.
In result, IMO, the Genesis is likely to sell (way)better than the Phaeton
- driver's skill (not that much for manual transmission..)
- tires
- the road condition (wet or dry.. )
- the direction and the velocity of the wind while testing (against or before)
- car condition (new or substantial mileage before testing)
and more to add ?
anyway, 0.4 second difference still seems great.
One small correction - the Phaeton is/was FWD & 4WD but I do agree with you on your points.
The 2GR is truly a better engine, no doubt about that and no argument there, but Hyundai's 3.8 isn't too far behind.
The GS is much more sporty than the Genesis, trust me...the handling is a bit tighter in the GS as compared to that of the SL.
Okay...believe what you want, I can't make you believe it.
Leasing a 3-Series still ties them to premium gas.
Actually...VW DOES have a luxury brand, it's called Audi. Had the Phaeton been marketed under the Audi name plate, it would have done fine. Oh yeah...the A-8!!!
The Hyundai dealer I go to washes the cars during service visits.
While some my chose to be waited on, there's still plenty that dont' have a problem walking up to the buffet and getting what they want. I know...I'm one of them.
BMW has personal service advisors who greet their clients by name. The advisors give free BMW loaners during service; and offer pastries and coffee to waiting patrons. Every car is washed before it's returned to the customer."
I loved the Genesis, but, that was my dealer experience.
And I am sure the rest of the service is above average. The dealer's attention to the little details is part of the owner's experience. You expect that in the market and with the cars that the Genesis is targeting.
If I had positive experiences with a Hyundai dealer I would be driving a Genesis today.
Inside Line (Edmunds) doesn't use roll-out but MT does.
Hyundai DEFINITELY needs to pay attention to the details if the Genesis is going to be a true success.
I understand what you're saying...customer service can make or break your experience with any vehicle.
Well, you have two questions here really. One is easy to answer, the other will be a little tougher.
#1, I think that you can buy the Genesis right now for under MSRP. Of course it depends on where you are and how the supply chain is running, but I think that if you walk into a dealership and make them an offer that is $500-$1000 over invoice (which would be $1200-$1700 off MSRP) on a Genesis that most dealers will strongly consider selling at that. I know I would. Now, that is not to say that EVERY store will be that way. It's a free country. But, I think you can make that deal whenever you get ready without too much trouble.
Question #2. I would be really shooting in the dark as far as the lease situation goes. You have a few factors here that make the crystal ball get a little cloudy. When the new year rolls around HMA and HMFC will need to be looking at how Genesis sales are going. If things are strong, then the lease residulas will remain high and you will still be able to get a great lease rate. However, if there are hundreds or thousands or Genesi sitting on the ground and collecting dust, then there may be a thought of lowering the residual and you may have a higher rate. Also, of course, interest rates in general make this a gamble. Lastly, who knows how much of this lease special is part of the car's launch? When things get settled, if there is a good turn rate on this car, HMA may not see any need to subsidize it's sales. It's a crap shoot.
By the way, the V6 test posted yesterday was really awesome!!
You can't compare the engine without comparing the car...
The GS is much more sporty than the Genesis, trust me...
I couldn't find the test numbers for the GS350 so I'll use Edmund's GS450h numbers just to make a point:
Slalom (mph): 63.5
Also from Edmunds for the Genesis:
Slalom (mph): 62.8
Sure the GS350 is a bit lighter than the GS450h so another mph or so on the slalom number is expected. But still, I wouldn't say the GS is "much" more sportier than the Genesis with a merely 2 mph advantage.
Maybe you were thinking the IS?
Leasing a 3-Series still ties them to premium gas.
Exactly! So those who "leased" the 3-series are more likely to feel the rising gas price than those who "bought" a LS/S/7. Also, in my neighborhood the difference between premium and regular is 16 cents per gallon. To me that's $2.24 per fill up and since I fill up about once a week that's about $120 per year. Really a moot point in my opinion.
Okay...the GS doesn't have the luxury appointments on the interior like the LS and the Genesis do...again, I say the GS is geared more toward luxury sport. In all honesty if you want to compare options and amenities...the Genesis compares more favorably to the LS. I'm sorry if you don't care to believe it, but it's the truth. Don't get me wrong, the LS has a few things the Genesis doesn't, but not too many.
No...the IS really is a full out sport sedan.
As far as the last statement...you truly missed my point. You have quite a few folks out here that want to get away from having to put premium fuel in their tanks. I think it would affect those that spend more time on the road...like me. I fill up on avarage, about 2 times a week and maybe 2 more times during the weekend (depending on what's going on), so my savings on fuel is quite a bit more significant than yours. As the difference between regular and premium is 40 cents. We've got a few stations pumping regular out at $3.79 and premium at $4.19.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=130286?tid=edmun- ds.il.home.photopanel..1.*
To paraphrase fashion designer Coco Chanel, "True luxury is the silk lining of a coat. Only you know it's there." This is the kind of luxury that feels wonderful against your skin, yet no one can see it. And that's why the Hyundai Genesis doesn't have "luxury" stamped across its grille.
What? Come again?
What "luxury appointments" that the Genesis has but the GS is lacking? I am confused. Forum mods, please don't intervene on this one, allmet33 and I are having a civil discussion, just let this one play out by itself.
the LS has a few things the Genesis doesn't, but not too many.
Actually, the LS also has few things that the IS doesn't, but not too many. Don't believe me? Check out the options list yourself.
As the difference between regular and premium is 40 cents.
Maybe the Genesis will sell better in your neck of woods than mine then...
Actually, the LS also has few things that the IS doesn't, but not too many. Don't believe me? Check out the options list yourself.
Well...DUH! However, we are talking LARGE sedans my friend.
Maybe the Genesis will sell better in your neck of woods than mine then...
You might be right, however...I think the better selling model will be the 3.8 w/Premium Plus to be honest. I think the 4.6 will sell for those that just feel they need to be able to say they have a car with 368/375 hp (depending on fuel type).
You are not going to get an argument from me on that. That's pretty much the whole selling point for the Genesis isn't it?
LS-like room with GS-like handling and IS-like price.
LS-like room with GS-like handling and IS-like price. \
EXACTLY!!!
Personally...I think the GS out-handles the Genesis, but that's not to say that the Genesis can't boogie a lil bit.
I have my doubts on that since I took the GS through an autoX type of course before couple times and wasn't impressed. Maybe I am spoiled by my IS...
I will go test drive a Genesis one of these days and I'll get back to you on that one.
I think your IS being lighter is much more fun to throw into corners and such, so you could be right. With the extra size and weight of the GS, you may not feel as comfortable throwing it into corners.
Let me know your impressions.
LS has power passenger seat. And so does the Genesis. Only that LS has 12-way versus 4 for Genesis.
LS has cooled seat. And so does the Genesis. Only that LS has it for all seats vs only driver seat for Genesis.
LS has memory seat. And so does the Genesis. Only that LS... well, you get the idea.
It was said ealier...LS size, GS handling & ride (open for debate) all at an IS price.
That's a hard deal to walk away from to be honest.
No argument from this corner either!
This is how I look at it: if I were on the market for a GS, I would pause and give the Genesis a look. If I were on the market for an LS, I would drive right by a Hyundai dealership not knowing it's there.
Let's keep this in perspective: Hyundai created the Genesis to compete in the entry-mid level luxury market (and to raise brand awareness). I'd say they did a good job at it, though you can tell they cut corners here and there (to keep cost down). The Genesis was not meant to compete in the LS, S, 7 class. That job falls to the VI (if, let's hope, they decide to bring it here).
Let's focus on Genesis vs GS, M, 5, and E. That's where the fight is.
GS < Genesis < 5 Series
5er is fhe firmest of all, the Genesis is somewhere in between (balanced), and the GS is the softest.
Before anyone gang up on me, I just would like to point out that there is othing wrong with any of the three in terms of the handling. Certain individuals like the feel one way, while others like it another way.
Like I've said all along, the fact that Hyundai has a car that can be mentioned with the premium makes at all...says a lot for the brand.
I would be very curious as to your impressions.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If the Genesis was a pair of shoes, it would be a really nice pair of Nike Air Jordons (that you can get for 50% off). They are comfy, but they definitely have a sport flavor to them. The Genesis is not a comfy pair of bedroom slippers... IMHO
Agreed! But goodness! Let's not drag the ES into this. That'll be degrading to the Genesis!
To follow up on what I said earlier, if I were on the market for an ES... uhhh, I'd save some money and buy a Camry. :P