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Comments
No, mine does not. Some dealerships like yours apparently do offer it.
What you will find though is that most dealers are reserving their loaners for the people that bought their cars from them originally.
Also, when you only have to get your car serviced twice a year (per the maintainence log), is a fancy waiting area really that big of a deal?
Kia's customer satisfaction index generally rates at the bottom.
This plan is based on big egos......
Funny how discussions of the Genesis seem to turn from how the car performs and compares to its competition to how Hyundai will never be able to sell luxury cars. Which if you haven't noticed, they are doing right now, in a very tough market for luxury cars.
Although not a deal breaker, luxury car buyers have come to expect a degree of "luxury" in the dealership. With this being a new model having more complexities than its fellow Hyundais, its reliability and therefore the number of trips needed to the service dept. at this point is unclear.
Let's not forget how Hyundai is coming in to the market. It's price! Yes, I will say you were right if they can do the same thing that Toyota did with the first Lexus LS400. Price it cheap to get in to the market and raise the price.
I do not think Hyundai will be able to pull it off.
Hyundai has been successful doing just that with other car models over the past 10 years. For example, compare the price of a Sonata 10 years ago to their price today. Compare the price of a Santa Fe 8 years ago, when they first debuted, to prices today. I never thought I'd see a $20,000 Elantra, but now we have them. I think they can do it with the Genesis.. it just won't happen overnight, which is what I think some people expect.
How much has the price really gone up?
The original poster said that Hyundai would never be considered a luxury brand - not that you wouldn't or couldn't find a Hyundai branded product with high price tags. We have that now. Your example of similarily priced Toyotas and Hondas is a bad one relative to chuck1's point simply because Toyota and Honda are not and will never be luxury brands either. They have Lexus and Acura for that, a point you do seem to recognize when you point out Hyundai's biggest mistake with the Genesis - in that it can never be accepted in those 'luxury' clubs as it is being currently marketed.
It is unfortunate to what is apparently a creditable effort on Hyundai's part, that they are ostensibly 'barking up the wrong tree' in those silly 'comparisons' in their ad campaigns etc. . And all this has nothing to do with how truly good the car is or isn't. Lexus and Acura (and Infiniti to a lesser degree) succeeded because 1) the good reputations of their parent cos. 2) the fact that those companies differentiated those new products thru a unique dealership structure and 3) because the cars ended up being solid enough that they justified Nos. 1 and No. 2.
As it is right now Hyundai only paid attention to one of those three things - and even that the jury is still out on. If Hyundai wants to be seriously considered as a BMW (or Lexus) alternative than it needs to be sold and priced like one - and a little more in the sophistication out of the engineering dept wouldn't hurt either!
Don't believe you could find even the most 'glass half full' Hyundai executive that could look you straight in the eye and tell you that selling 1000 cars a month or so is satisfactory or even within any of Hyundai's most pessimistic expectations regardless of how 'tough' the car market is. But no matter, they are doing about everything they can to make sure it will fail - which will be a loss for all of us
It would also have been easier to provide a more unique & special buying experience (and yes, it does matter in this demographic). Hyundai has pretty much established that it is comparable to the Toyotas/Hondas/Nissans w/ their base vehicles so I think they could have pulled it off (if they had the capital, which is a big factor obviously).
Didn't say it was fair or even necessarily true - only a fact of life that Hyundai doesn't seem to want to deal with. It is difficult to sell anything with price as its primary attribute and then turn around and expect the semi-intelligent buyer not to wonder why that something is so cheap in the first place.
Its kinda like the problem Chrysler currently has - rather suspect that the car buyer believes that Chrysler HAS to warranty their cars forever simply because their cars are of suspect quality NOT better quality. And likewise the Toyotas and Hondas of the world don't because they don't have to....
Second, has anyone considered that the path Honda, Lexus, and Nissan took is not the only path to success in this market?
I wonder how many pundits doomed Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti to failure after they had been selling cars for only a few months, and in a much more receptive market for low-end luxury cars than we have today?
And yep a number of quite knowledgeable auto experts predicted failure for things like the LS400 back in the late 80's. After all, the whole concept of anybody paying $40 large back then for a Toyota product was ridiculous right? Except that being made by Toyota was an asset not a liability, it was sold in a place that treated its customers like kings and queens, and lastly, was (and is) a car that easily justified those big bucks.
The car itself can be successful because it is what it is for the price it's being offered and it's really hard to touch that. The problem lies in the company itself in not doing enough to stand behind the fact that it's a luxury sedan. I mean...when folks buy a luxury sedan, they expect luxury service. Hyundai is still stuck in value mode in their way of thinking...they put the cart in front of the horse. In essence, they don't have to create another name plate in order to be successful in the luxury market, they need to address the dealerships and bring them up to speed and make ownership of the Genesis a luxury experience.
not 'against' anything at all, just trying to inject a bit of realism where Hyundai, in this case, apparently can't.
GM knows it can't produce a luxury car called a Chevy, they need to call it a Cadillac and price it accordingly for it to be accepted and successful as a luxury car. The same holds true for many many of the other larger manufacturers. This is nothing against Hyundai or even the Genesis, which may be the best thing ever put on 4 wheels
Come on Captain, you yourself were one of the ones saying that Hyundai couldn't produce a luxury car and that it wouldn't be a luxury car because Hyundai isn't a luxury name plate. You may not have used those exact words, but I know if we go back through the postings...we could find those conversations. I was the one saying that the Genesis would be the Benz/Lexus/BMW for the blue collar worker and you totally shot that down as not being viable at all.
Honestly, it isn't about what Hyundai can't do...they did it. It's just a matter of the public accepting that fact. You can put cat fur on a dog and it'll still be a dog, just like you can put a Hyundai badge on a luxury car...it's still a luxury car. We all know the Genesis isn't the best thing put on wheels, but it is the best thing that Hyundai has put on wheels.
One point we agree on wholeheartedly...customer service must change in order for the Genesis to enjoy the success that's awaiting it.
Who before has tried to do what Hyundai is doing, that is, offer a car that can compete with luxury cars costing $10-20k more but at a price more like that of a gussied-up mid-sized sedan? And no, VW is not the right answer.
Personally I would not trash Hyundai's strategy only because it is different than what some other companies have done before. If you have studied or experienced anything about competitive marketing strategy, you know that it is generally NOT a good idea to follow exactly the same strategy and positioning as others who are already entrenched in the marketplace.
Also, as far as the Toyota example... I would have had to predict failure for Lexus too, since Toyota's customer service was quite poor (based on my experience) back in the late '80s. Somehow they got past that problem, though. And I don't see any problem justifying the price of a Genesis based on what you get. I think it's a relative bargain, backed by a company that has proven it can build high-quality, reliable cars--not just low-priced cars. In other words, about where Toyota was in the late '80s, but the Genesis' price is far below that of the LS400 from that time, even though it's 20 years later.
by George, I think you got it! Whether or not they actually did it is a matter of the public accepting that 'fact'.
What is a 'fact' to perhaps you and backy is obviously escaping more 'average' folks I guess, you know those 'average' folks that spend a lot of money to get on a 6 month waiting list that TMK doesn't exist at any Hyundai dealer I know of. Or that they find that the average Genesis buyer used to own BMWs or MBs, and simply think it's a better car than what they had, because in all likely hood the price difference is NOT what makes the decision for buyers like this. They want the best, they are willing to pay for it, and lastly, of course, want the rest of the world to understand that.
In fact, as I have related before, I have spent quite a bit of time working in that country and have a great deal of respect for the Korean people and their abilities and commitments to do whatever they choose. But you are right about one thing - the whole concept of a 'blue collar' BMW or whatever is oxymoronic IMO. This is a marketing problem and a perception problem and NOT necessarily a car problem....
You Hyundai guys would always point to lack of publicity as one of the reasons for things like lagging Azera/Genesis sales but now that there seems to be nothing but these comical Hyundai ads on TV, and they are having negligible effect - why are you guys not willing to accept the fact that the US carbuyer is simply not ready for for $30k+ pricetag on a Korean car???
Porsche, no dealers just vets bringing them in [you could fry an egg]on the tunnel.
Now I read how you pro's mentally masterbate on the success of a fantastic first effort dynamite machine albeit it needs a massage and your help but don't fault it's quality. Get a life.
Because they are... the tens of thousands of buyers of Veracruzes and Genesis sedans at over $30k. Hyundai's challenge in this tough economy for auto sales is to get more people to buy those $30k+ vehicles. Difficult? Of course. I just don't think it's as impossible as some others think it is.
As for the "blue collar" BMW... it exists. It's called the Honda Accord. But the Genesis is not a "blue collar BMW". It's more a "blue collar" Lexus or Mercedes, or an alternative to domestic competition like Cadillac. Or maybe more like a "business casual" Lexus or Mercedes.
Anyway, you may as well keep generalities like "you Hyundai guys" to yourself, since they are totally inaccurate. Unless you mean anyone who has ever owned a Hyundai and has a positive opinion of them is a "Hyundai guy." I do own a Hyundai, but also a BMW, Chrysler, and Mazda. I guess that makes me a "Bimmerchryslermazdahyundai" guy... or something else equally unpronounceable.
If you think Hyundai has and will continue to fail with the Genesis, fine, that's your opinion. But why waste your time on a discussion that is dedicated to talking about a car that you think is a failure? That would be like me going to the Chevy discussion and regularly dissing the Impala, or Cobalt, or Aveo etc. I have lots of better things to do.
What is safe assumption here ?
The advertising isn't working?
Hyundai doesn't know what direction to take with the car?
OR???????????????????
BTW-is there ANY high quality -high priced priced product(s) that come out of South Korea?
http://www.productwiki.com/lg-52lg71/
But... what the heck does that have to do with the Genesis? :confuse: Oh, wait--that's another high-quality, high priced ($42k for a loaded V8) product from the ROK.
Nice T.V.!
Hyundai dealers are "re-badging" too. While my Azera was being serviced yesterday I saw 4 3.8's and 2 v8's all with Genesis center wheel cap and trunk lid wing badge replacements. $495.00 dealer sticker addition.
REALLY? - Azeras have been discounted heavily since day one and the Genesis - a car that if we are to accept how 'revolutionary' the thing is NOT selling at the premium that it should be. Both are not selling in any truly competitive quantities. Hyundai is NOT a 'small potatoes' manufacturer, and I find it hard to believe that anybody back in Ulsan can be happy with the actual number of buyers they are finding for the vehicles you mention especially given the absurdly low prices they are finding it necessary to sell them for. Even in a better car market, Hyundais have been 'screaming deals' for quite some time now, and I will also admit that they are slowly shedding that cheap Korean car with no resale value image, but also that this is primarily happening on the Elantras, Sonatas etc. not the high ticket entries.
Try it - pull up a brand spanking new V8 Genesis in your driveway and then tell your neighbor that you spent $40 something grand+ for the thing and see if you don't get the most incredulous 'are you crazy' look you've ever seen. And it has nothing to do with the car being 'worth' it at all - it's all perception - Hyundais are not allowed to cost that kinda money regardless of how good they might be.
I really don't care diddly squat what my neighbors think of what I drive. It's my money, and my car. If I cared about that, maybe I wouldn't have bought my first Hyundai 8 years ago and I wouldn't own one now. Although I have never had a single negative comment from any neighbor or friend or co-worker about the Hyundais I've owned. And over the years I've seen more and more of them buy Hyundais for themselves.
Hyundai is NOT a 'small potatoes' manufacturer, and I find it hard to believe that anybody back in Ulsan can be happy with the actual number of buyers they are finding for the vehicles you mention especially given the absurdly low prices they are finding it necessary to sell them for.
I would say that no one in Ulsan or Detroit or Tokyo or several other places is happy with the actual number of buyers they are finding for their vehicles right now, especially luxury sedans. And last time I noticed, there are humongous deals available now on luxury cars from every manufacturer.
Actually what I think I said was any Korean car with that $30k+ pricetag is a difficult sell. I'll also contend also that neither the Azera or the Genesis are 'luxury' cars - they can't be - and not because they don't have enough 'bling' to qualify - they can't be a 'luxury' car in the same way that Chevy and Ford (and others) can't make one either - it's a perception. Toyota can produce a $40k Avalon loaded to the gills with about every 'convenience' known to mankind - but it still is NOT a 'luxury ' car. Neither is the Azera - or the Genesis.
The fact that you don't care 'what your neighbor thinks' is admirable, somewhat unusual, and also puts you squarely in the heart of Hyundai's buying demographic.
Now...whether the public, or yourself for that matter, chooses to accept it or not...it is reality. The Genesis has been rolled out and it is indeed a luxury car. The only real issues the Genesis suffers from is the ride quality, some missing amenities and a few rumblings about an unfinished trunk with not having a covering on the underside of the rear deck.
Why, praytell is blue collar BMW/Benz oxymoronic? What I mean by that is the average blue collar worker isn't going to afford an S-Class, LS or 7 Series. However, they can afford a Genesis because it costs THOUSANDS less than any of the aforementioned offerings in the lowest trim level.
What I gripe about with the ads is the fact that the Azera didn't get put out in advertising except for a brief run of a couple of months and that was it. I'm talking a year AFTER the car was introduced. The Genesis, however...has enjoyed recognition and hype since the Superbowl and ever since then. How can you say the effect is negligible? Initial Genesis sales are better than initial Azera sales were, I think that shows significant proof that advertising is needed. Also, if the car buying public isn't ready for a $30K+ Hyundai, then why would initial Genesis sales be better than initial Azera sales???
You never did like the ads Hyundai has put out, but....there's not a single aspect you can say isn't true. I think it just gets your goat that Hyundai can actually make those claims. I find it hilarious that it bothers you so much.
Luxury car = Bentley or Rolls. Period? :confuse:
Thank you for proving my point...you said it before and you're saying it again.
The difference between what Hyundai has accomplished and what Volkswagen attempted to pull of with the Phaeton is the fact the Genesis is priced in such a manner to make it plausible for the company itself. Unlike Volkswagen that went from the Passat at $35K all the way up to the Phaeton that they wanted $70K (V-8) and $90K for the V-12 (or was it W-12). Anyway...if they had priced the car around $50K...they could've pulled it off. The fact that it was a hand built car didn't even make it worth the money they were asking.
Now...if Hyundai jumped out there and priced the Genesis up there with the likes of the LS, 7 Series and S-Classes, then yes...it would have been a hilariously sad misstep on their part. I will say this, when you simply talk about a Hyundai costing $40K, it may seem unfathomable, but when one actually goes and sits in the car, takes it for a spin and then compares it to the cars that cost upwards of $10K more...it really is quite justifiable and easy to see. Sorry Captain, that's the reality of it that you just don't care or wish to accept.
Honestly, the folks that have the most problem with it are the ones that feel they do need to answer to their neighbors, family and friends for the choice they made in purchasing the likes of a Genesis. My question is...removing that part of the equation, how many folks do you think would actually by a Hyundai if they weren't worried about what their peers would think? Please, don't try and answer the question because you really can't (heck...I can't)...it is simply being asked because, well...it really makes me wonder!
I don't know if I agree that the folding rear seats was really an omission on Hyundai's part. I mean...there are a lot of luxury sedans that don't have that feature. Granted, there are some that offer it as an option, and maybe that's something Hyundai should consider. I guess they feel that once someone buys a luxury sedan, they don't have a need to carry long items around that need folding rear seats to accomodate them.
sure it does, but somehow you miss the point. Doodads and bling do not a 'luxury' car make and nor does physical specs/capabilites like RWD and/or braking distances etc. etc. make a 'luxury' car' either. If that was true, then that Avalon Ltd., the well optioned Azera or Impala, or Grand Marquis or whatever would all be 'luxury' cars which, of course, they aren't. And neither is the current more performance oriented and more capable G8 either (the 300C, and the next gen Impala perhaps all in this group) - although the bling levels are not there. All this only because all of these cars do not wear the proper set of clothes. Now if the Genesis was simply a car sold exclusively thru Genesis dealers, had those trained and competent sales people ready to buss your right cheek at any given opportunity, and wasn't fighting the quite mundane and somewhat questionable reputation that Hyundai does have - then, just maybe, you would have a 'luxury' car. Soft suspension issues not withstanding, the Genesis deserves at least that much.
But, no matter, Hyundai could come up with a way to make those seats fold flat instead of the 10-15 degress, and they still would not have a 'luxury' car
Here's a question for you Captain...Mercedes has long been known to be a world leader in terms of luxury offerings, right? Then why in the world was there a need for them to branch off and create Maybach? Couldn't they simply have created a flag-ship series above the S-Class???
Why are you stuck on what all the other companies have done in the past? This is a new day where things are different. Why is it not possible for a single auto maker be in a position to create the econo-box at one end and a full out luxury sedan on the other and have every other offering in between? Why is it not possible? In this world of one-stop shopping (just look at the super WalMarts and Targets), why is it so wrong for Hyundai to break the mold and do something that no other company has successfully done? Are you that brainwashed to believe that things can't change or be done differently?
Then why in the world was there a need for them to branch off and create Maybach
simple - exclusivity along with a half-million dollar price tag (or more?)- and because they can. On that level, a $500k Super 'S' class MB should fail in the same manner as that Phaeton (or Genesis) - wrong clothes.
The A8 wasn't in question, the Phaeton was and my point was...had they priced it more accordingly, it would have sold. Heck, VW was selling a $50K+ SUV with no problem, but a $70K+ sedan...yeah right.
When it's all said and done, the Genesis will enjoy much more success than the Phaeton did simply because it's actually comparable to other sedans in it's class in terms of offerings, but at a huge discount compared to the premium brands. The Phaeton was the reverse of that and its demise was imminent.
$40K is merely a price set by Hyundai, do they believe that the public will pay that for it...I don't think so. I do believe they set that price with their target being the high $30K's which is exactly what they are getting for them.
The exclusivity would come by owning the top tier flag-ship of that automaker...I mean, luxury is luxury, right?
Now wait a minute...first you say that in order for a luxury sedan to be successful, it must be made by a luxury name plate. A Maybach is a luxury sedan, is it not? Mercedes Benz is a luxury name plate, is it not? MB is also known to sell cars that cost six figures already, so why in the world would a "Super" S-Class not work for Benz??? Oh, that's right...that's what you've learned to believe by watching the likes of Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti and the likes. Wow...so even a luxury name plate has to create an ultra-luxury name plate to sell and utra luxury sedan. So because that's what Toyota, Nissan & Honda have done, Hyundai MUST follow behind them and do the same in order to be successful, right?
Hyundai is blazing a new path and THAT is what has the other automakers concerned. They're not dumping money into creating a luxury name plate that'll take a least a decade to recoupe, they're doing it under one single name. The only thing you can do is continue to be in denial.
and this is the rub, if the Genesis was truly a 'luxury' car with those kind of attributes both real and perceived, then Hyundai wouldn't be worried about about how much they are going to have to discount it, the customers would be flocking onto the dealer lots, begging off their late model BMWs, and begging that non-existent knowledgeable Hyundai sales guy to PLEASE PLEASE take my money - not caring what it costs. This would be a concept foreign to the usual Hyundai - which in itself summarizes a good part of the problem.