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Comments
Rides Magazine creates custom Hyundai Genesis for SEMA
I picked up the latest Rides magazine and saw the article on this...SWEET!!!
that's just it - in an absolute hardware for the dollar perspective - the Genesis is underpriced as most Hyundai offerings are. From a perception standpoint and relative to where it is sold it is overpriced.
If you think about it there are very very few manufacturers that can successfully sell a $40k car alongside a $10k one. Thinking about that a little further some of those 'Japanese' brands may be the only ones to successfully pull that off - and they had to come up with new brands (and dealers) to do it.
#1) Bottom line...what you get for your dollar in the Genesis is truly hard to beat. It has clearly been proven that you would have to pay $10K or more to get the very same things the Genesis offers in comparison to the premium sedans. Granted, you can't put a price on luxury sentiment, but we're talking tangibles.
#2) Volkswagen is doing the very thing you claim can't be done. Rabbits sell for around $15K and the Toureg 2 in V8 form sells for almost $50K. The Sonata tops out around $25K, the Azera tops out around $30K and you can get into a base Genesis for $33K and fully loaded for just under $40K. I bet you would just love it if the Genesis were sold for the same price as the Azera, huh? :P
With the progressions Hyundai has made, why do you continually believe that they are unable to "do it"???
mitchell rowe"
The V6 and V8 in every configuration?
mitchell rowe"
The V6 and V8 in every configuration?
Hmmmm? The Korean won has lost 40% of its value against the US dollar since July and Hyundai is going to raise prices? The won is at its lowest point in fourteen years. Perhaps they will raise prices in the Korean won but I think it's unlikely they will raise prices in US dollars. More likely the price will drop in US dollars.
I'm not saying anything negative about this car I own one. It is absolutley the best car I have ever had at any price but I think it likely the price will come down in January not up.
Most likely some dealer is blowing smoke, trying to pressure you into buying now.
Let's be real and recognize that Americans like brand names - we like Coach, Gucci, Mercedes-- it doesn't have much to do with quality or logic, it's the emotion of elitism.
Had Hyundai changed the name, they would have had a contender. Short of that, noone - and I mean NOONE is going to trade in a Mercedes for a Hyundai. If anyone has done that please speak up.
You are right about one thing, many Americans are stuck on brand names, but with the economic status of our country...a good many are starting to re-think things.
Hyundai doesn't have to change, it's already a contender. You have obviously chosen the right screen name because you're so blind you can't see it. One thing I've learned in life...never say never.
If you want to use VW as your example, then, let's not talk about a cheap car and an upmarket SUV (notice that I don't call it a 'luxury' SUV) , but a cheap car and a very expensive one that was a miserable failure.
I don't really know what 'progressions' you are talking about, unless it is simply that they have shown the capacity to make a whole bunch of different types of vehicles. In next month's CR listing of their 'most reliable' cars, 40 out of 47 are 'Japanese' and the only Hyundai model to even make the list - the Elantra. While no Hyundai models appeared on the 'worst' list' either, the only progress I see from a reliability standpoint is that they aren't as bad as they once were - years ago - but still little to change that unfortunate 'disposable car' reputation.
EXACTLY!!!
Why not use VW...the Rabbit was always known as cheap transportation, it just wasn't as disposable as an Escort or Excel. The point of your statement was that a company can't sell a cheap car AND a car costing $40K, but lo & behold...not one, but TWO companies have and are doing it.
The fact that Hyundai isn't as bad as it used to be is the progress that needs to be seen. The fact that you don't see any of the models on the worst list is a huge statement...considering we are talking about Hyundai. Not to mention that Hyundai/Kia is the 5th ranked automaker in the world.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand...the debate should just stop at the fact that you and others seemingly have a problem with a $40K Hyundai. It's as simple as that. It's not about what it should be or what it isn't or what some think it pretends to be. It's the fact that Hyundai has a $40K car. Get over it, if you don't like it...then don't get one, but don't sit there and say that this can't happen or that shouldn't happen...bottom line, it's happening!!!
I think you should stop now... its no point
I think allmet works for Genesis... else I adore his passion. There can be nothing wrong with Genesis... even after seeing a banged up genesis in which airbags did not deploy he has this to say (post no 3633 above)
We know what the article says, but we don't know if the details are correct. For all we know, the photographer just walked up and saw the Genesis Coupe all crashed up and went from there, he/she may have never spoken to the actual driver to know if he/she was an owner or someone test driving for the company or what.
For those who understand no explanation is needed
For those who dont understand no explanation is possible
So what...a picture was posted of ONE Genesis coupe banged up against a light pole and the air bags didn't deploy...what is that supposed to mean? Trust me, I've seen a few accidents in the DC area where cars have run into the backs of other cars and you don't see an air bag deployed and yet...the front end is pushed back significantly. If someone snapped a picture of you drunk out of your mind, passed out with vomit all around you...are we to assume you're an alcoholic? Could have been a one time situation that you simply had too much to drink. The point is...why feed into it when it's a limited instance. Now if we start seeing pictures popping up all the time with this problem...I think more heed should be paid, yes?
The Genesis isn't the perfect car, but it's the perfect car for Hyundai in that it's the feather in their cap that can bring them a level of respectability they have yet to enjoy. No, it won't happen overnight because the Genesis still has to prove that it is worthy of the accolades that are potentially waiting for it. Hey, it's even possible that the Genesis doesn't live up to it's potential. Bottom line is Hyundai has created a car that a great many didn't think it could and that in itself speaks volumes for the company.
BTW, I would be amazed if Genesis prices do not start to fall, just as all other luxury car prices are falling. It is a good car, but it is still a Hyundai.
right on - and apparently there are many many more just like us - betcha the profit on those 1000 cars/mo. they are selling can't even cover all those silly TV ads they are running during football games etc. Granted it is a Toyota and the economic times were much different but the Avalon was running 10 times that volume a few months after it became available in 05 with no advertising at all, and it is not nearly the screaming 'deal' that the Genesis is.
You 'H' guys seem to be celebrating that Hyundai is no longer amongst the dregs of the auto industry, which it seemingly has graduated from in recent years - perhaps just perhaps Hyundai's should have loftier goals if it really wants to sell like the Genesis to those badge and quality oriented folks that they seem to think would be interested. Being 'average' is nothing to brag on.
The VWs of today are very different from those of, say, 30 years ago. VWs in the late '70s were known for low price, cheap interiors, poor rust resistance and many quality problems. The one bright spot was acceleration--the Rabbit was a bit quicker than most of its direct competitors. Today, VW is known as a sort of Euro-chic brand with a distinctive personality, and people routinely pay more for VWs than for comparably sized and equipped Hondas, Toyotas, or Nissans.
Twenty years ago, Hyundai was building very disposable cars. The Excel was dreadful, and the first Sonatas were equally so. The Scoupe (remember?) was cute, but poorly executed. Even ten years ago, not many buyers took the Accent or the first Elantra all that seriously. But now the mainstream motoring press regards the Elantra and Sonata as fully competitive with Toyota, Honda, and Nissan--arguably superior in some areas. Even the Accent is a quality car for the money.
It's just an image problem--but when you're buying a luxury car, image is very important, arguably more important than reality.
With intelligent marketing, it won't be long before Hyundai is taken as seriously in the Azera and Genesis price ranges as it is in the compact and midsize market. But I suspect the marketing is the weak spot.
Several manufacturer lineups include a $30K or larger spread. Chevy does (Aveo to Corvette/Suburban), Toyota goes from Corolla to Land Cruiser (actually a $50K spread), etc. I doubt you'll find many people who dis the 'vette because the same dealer sells Aveos and Cobalts.
Really, though. When the same posters continue to post negative ideas and negative speculation, it becomes very obvious. People who are interested in reading about the Genesis are not mindless lemmings. I guarantee you the majority are car enthusiasts who will read back through hundreds of posts if they haven't seen them already.
Bottom line: the Genesis is an exceptional car that compares very well with the Lexus GS, and more and more people are showing interest.
I've heard all the estimates and projections about residual values on the Genesis, and they remain just that - projections and estimates.
Only time will tell if the early adopters are punished excessively or not for buying the first 30k+ Hyundai.
We passed on it because of the suspension issues we highlighted before, and which many articles and reviews are starting to mention, but that's just a subjective complaint. Aside from the price tag and suspension, it seems fairly competitive with other cars in the same price range (even though many of those cars are now being sold with larger incentives given the economic morass).
Don
Only time will tell if the early adopters are punished excessively or not for buying the first 30k+ Hyundai.
...
That goes for any manufacturer. When the '05 RL came out, a lot of folks jumped on it with it's $50K+ price tag; some folks even paid as much as a $5K markup! That's how enthusiastic they were about it. About a year later, a person could buy a brand new, loaded up RL for around $41K if they searched hard enough. The resale on them is horrendous considering Honda products are supposed to retain value like a one-of-a-kind antique. Anybody who buys an RL gets oiled up in depreciation off the bat, and those early adopters were absolutely slathered in it.
But at the end of the day, they all still love their RLs; low resale value and all.
Before Toyota dropped the Avalon on us, they had established themselves as a dependable car maker. Hyundai has improved greatly and nobody wants to give them the respect that's due them. All you want to keep saying is, "But it's a Hyundai!"
You are right, for Hyundai to no longer be among the dregs of the auto society is to be celebrated...considering they were one time the door mat and butt of all auto jokes. Who says that Hyundai doesn't have loftier goals? Are you in their front office making decisions? Just because you and a few other believe it should be one way, that doesn't mean it MUST be that way. Like I've said and I'll say it again, Hyundai is breaking the mold of what an automaker is supposed to be. I truly love the fact that it ruffles the feather of the likes of you and anyone else that can't get over the fact that Hyundai is doing what they are doing.
Hyundai is far from average which is why they are now ranked #5 among all automakers. Sorry Charlie, you don't get that high being average.
Dude...get over yourself and just accept the fact that it has happened and there's nothing you can do about it. Instead of complaining about it and tryin to make an arguement from every possible angle as to why it shouldn't be, just accept that it is. The most you can do, is just not buy a Hyundai that costs upwards of $30K. :P
Only issue was that the suspension was soft. I will wait for the Coupe and keep test driving.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Good for the buyers, bad for Hyundai.
The price increase may not be all fluff. I was told, before the Genesis hit the ground, the there was a price hike in the pipe. As for the $2k, I can't speak to the amount, just that I was told that it was coming in some variety.
Shouldn't be that much of a shocker though. Most cars get a price hike after they have been on the ground for a while. Where do you think the money for the rebates comes from? I remember when a GLS V6 Santa Fe stickered for $19k. Now they are $23k, but lo and behold, there is a $2500 rebate, and $1000 side dealer cash!! Same price, you just have to give out the "deal" to keep sales going.
As to resale value, I think that a number of people are missing a big factor here. This isn't about what percentage value the car holds, it's about the amount that it cost you to drive!! If a LS 460 is say, $70,000 new, I would say that one should look at the value 5 years out. My Black Book says that a 2003 LS 430 is worth around $15000-$16000 trade-in (real money, not "allowance"), now that looks like $54000-$55000 to drive for 5 years. Even if you went over book, and went to $20k, it still cost $50k to drive for 5 years. My point is that the Genesis will have a positive value of some amount in 5 years, and with that in mind, you can drive for less than $40k (or $30k, whatever)in that 5 years. Seems like that makes the DEPRECIATION amount less on the Genesis than one of the most highly regarded vehicles on the road.
Just because an Accent is $15k and is worth $3k in five years does not mean that you lost MORE money on it than you would, say an Accord or a Camry, or a Corolla (insert your car where you like). The percentages look terrible on the cheaper cars due to each dollar being worth more, but folks, I can buy bread with dollars, not percentage signs!!!
As to the comment about people looking for a "quality" car not looking at Hyundai, I ask, "huh?". People should seriously get in the auto that Hyundai is now putting out. Most every offering is on par with, or better than the equivalent offerings from Toyota and Honda. Find me something about the Genesis that is not up to the Japenese offerings. Also, take a look at the Veracruz and tell me why this unit is "beneath" a Toyota. When you read the reviews of that vehicle, most all have been nothing but glowing. Now, I agree that sales are awful, but that does not change the fact that the vehicles themselves are solid. Lets go start another thread where we make baseless accusations about Honda or Toyota or Nissan and see how much fun that will be. By the way Nissan is just a new name for Datsun. Remember all of those awe inspiring Datsun's? Man, that must mean that Nissan's are all garbage, right? Please.
One last thing. There are dealers taking M-B, Lexus, and BMW cars in on this unit. Hate to burst bubbles around here, but there are rumors of people buying these high end cars just to say that they have one. Some of those people are realizing that when they get one, (wait for it) it's still a car!! It's not God's chariot. I have personally taken Audi, BMW, and Lexus models in on trade at my store for Hyundai's not named Genesis, so why would a top shelf model that is winning several journalist awards not get legit consideration from the top end clients? By the way I had a M-B in here last week trying to trade for a Veracruz. $14k in the tub. Hard to work with that these days.
Also, our first Genesis sale was to a previous E-class owner. Guess the world works differently when you get out of SoCal...................................................
Unless there has been a recent change, the Coupe will have a turbo 4 and the 3.8 6, no V8.
I sold my 2008 Lexus LS 460 short for the GENISIS .
i cannot compare the genisis to a lexus GS .... , only compare it to an LS new style .
if there is a comparison to the gs , it would be price , and the gs is still $ 13 k more $ .
THE GENISIS IS A WORLD CLASS AUTOMOBILE . PERIOD . HANDS DOWN ! .
mitchell rowe
your post re: resale value on the GENISIS >
look at the auction transactions at manheim , orlando , etc .... the 2008 LS 460's
which listed with the Levinson radio were $ 74,000.00 .
mostly they went out the door , and are still going out the door as 2008's with a
$ 4000 rebate for $ 62,000.00 .
they are selling at the "sales" for $ 50 k and less ( high 40's $ ) , with 2000 miles .
yes ... that's is what i said .... the cars dropped invalue $ 12,000 $ with 2000 miles
in months .
There is or could be a # of reasons for this that are external to the vehicle itself , but , and that is a big BUTT , the GENISIS is beating the LEXUS to smitherines .
Finally , the make pretend aristocrats at Lexus are getting their hairs trimmed .
I LOVE MY GENISIS . I LOVE THE LOOKS , THE FEEL , THE DOUBLE PANE
GLASS / QUIETNESS, THE 485 WATT RADIO AND XM SATELLITE , THE LEATHER FEEL AND TOUCH , THE NAV SYSTEM WORKS ON THE FLY ,
THE TRUNK IS HUGE COMPARED TO THE LS MINI TRUNK , THE HID XENON'S ARE ABSOLUTELY AWESOME ( yes , they do turn with the vehicle ) , THE KETLESS ENTRY AND STARTER BUTTON WORKS , IT RUNS ON REGULAR GAS ( really ) , I PUT IN $ 17 , FOR 10 GALLONS , AND HAVERAGE OVER 25 MPG ON THE XWAY .
i could go on and on ....
BOTTOM LINE ON THIS POST : don't think about depreciation . depreciation on automobiles is directly related to the list price . therefore the amount of dollar cost in depreciation is a ton lower on the GENISIS , than the LEXUS .
that is why hyundai is leasing them cheap for 27 months .( because when they come home in 27 months they will sell them and make money again )
( especially with the large price increases on the GENISIS in the works ) .
mitchell rowe
It's "Genesis" - not "Genisis".
But don't take my word for it. Go out to your garage now & see for yourself.
Purely anecdotally, my wife -- who is brand-insensitive but extremely quality-conscious -- much preferred the V6 Genesis over the E Class after test driving both. I think the 535i would still be at the top of her list because of that blistering twin turbo, but I wonder if a spin in a V8 might change things?
If prices go the way I think they will next year and if (big if) we still have any money after the hard landing, I'll probably lease her a V8 and sit out the resale lottery.
As for a release date, there is nothing firm yet. I have heard spring and summer. Now that means May-September usually. But who knows.
If rumors mean anything, then there could be a turbo V6 down the line, or maybe a DI version to increase power for the coupe. The 5.0L V8 is a reality at the Korea test facility and could be over here in the not so distant future for the sedan. 425hp and a 8sp tranny sure sound nice!!!
i , mitchell rowe ; dr. by trade , am legally blind . no i don't drive , i have a driver
who lives with us . normally , my e mails are reposed from voice to print , however it does not work on this site at edmunds ., so i do my best with what i have .
I DO KNOW YOU WERE TRYING TO BE CUTE , BUT SOMETIMES CUTE CAN BE OFFENSIVE .
fyi : i hold hundreds of patents and copyrights relating to chemistry , physics , and pharmacology . additionally i hold six degrees .
genisis , genius , ginisi , what does it matter ... you know what we are talking about here , as we are on the site for that vehicle .
happy thanksgiving
mitchell rowe
Yes, I'll admit that I'm a nut about correct spelling - I was a spelling bee winner in elementary school - but I would not have criticized you if I had known that you're blind.
Again, I'm sorry about the misunderstanding. Congratulations on your new car & enjoy your Thanksgiving.
To make a long story short I ended up buying a CPO LS 430 because of the value and because I liked the way it drove and the outward visibility was much better than the other two.
I agree with you that the Genesis is one hell of a car. I enjoy your posts and wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
$29,490 plus 0.9% financing
I predict they go lower. Happy Holidays.
Don
I still moan about the speedometer reading 5% faster than you are actually traveling but I guess most of you are tired of hearing me repeat such a nitpicking complaint.
I have a more serious problem to report. Two times, I have arrived from a trip to discover that my battery was completely dead with the car parked in an airport garage. The first time, the Hyundai technician got a readout from the computer indicating a defective battery. Luckily, they had just unloaded another new Genesis and they replaced my battery with the one from the new vehicle. Yesterday, I arrived at the same airport after a four-day trip to experience the exact same dead battery scenario. When I got a jump-start from the airport police, the first thing I did was to check every electrical device and switch to make sure that I did not leave anything on. This time, the technician's computer did not indicate a defective battery. They wanted to give me a loaner car and keep my Genesis for several days to see if they can duplicate the problem but I am leaving on another 2,000 mile trip in two days. Therefore, we have decided that I will complete that trip and then leave it with them to research the problem. Both the dealer and I think that there must be an electrical short.
Now for a gas mileage story. I filled the tank with pure gas (no Ethanol), reset the computer, and drove from Greenville, SC to Stafford, VA on I-85 and I-95 traveling most of the time at 80 MPH. It was a beautiful day with no wind. I was elated that the car's computer indicated that I averaged 30.3 MPG. Two days later, I filled up with gas containing 10% Ethanol, reset the computer, and traveled back to Greenville on another beautiful, no-wind day. There are no significant hills on this route and there was no difference in driving conditions. I only achieved 27.1 MPG with the Ethanol blend. Stay away from Ethanol blended fuel if you have a choice!
Since I probably have put more miles on my Genesis than almost anybody, I am trying in each of my posts to give a completely honest and objective assessment. I know that I hate reading some of the blogs that are based more on emotion than on actual facts and results. In spite of my complaints, and I have reported some, I still think this is one heck of a car! I'll like it even better if they can figure out my battery drain problem.
In Aug 08 (according to my copy of Consumer Reports), the price range started at $22,510 up to $35,670. The LX now starts at $27,250 and the Limited $37,350.
Come on guys, credit your consumers with some intelligence. Why not start the range at $18,000 and see if you start moving some units. Setting your base model $1000 above the base model Honda Odyssey and hiking your other prices in this way doesn't sound like you're taking the current economic situation too seriously...
As for the ethenol: 10% ethenol equals 10% fewer miles per gallon. Sounds to me like the ethenol is just making farmers rich and not doing anything to decrease the use of gasoline. Ethenol is being burned with no contribution to mileage.
Whose idea was it to mix this stuff with gasoline and for what purpose?