Midsize Sedans 2.0

suydam

So the only distinguishing feature of EX-L will be leather?

benjaminh

Yeah, that is a puzzler....But I guess you also get the premium stereo, as well as all of the "Honda Sensing" features as standard.

ral2167

Honda needs to stop having to pay $2000 just to get navigation.

stickguy

Exl was always heated leather seats and XM radio mostly.

The ILX is actually perfectly equipped for me, in premium trim. Even has "real" blind spit monitoring. Just need to add a spare tire, but the well is there!

suydam

2013 Ex-L also had 17" alloys, driver memory seat, power passenger seat, auto dim rear view mirror, forward collision warning and LDW, LED brake lights and HondaLink interface.

akirby

No such thing as a blind spot if you adjust your mirrors properly. And the Honda system only works on the passenger side, not the driver's side. A simple light in the side mirror (which you should be checking anyway) is much easier to see and interpret than looking at a camera picture.

benjaminh

Automobile Magazine's new midsize comparison....

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1506-midsize-madness-2015-mazda6-accord-sonata-camry-legacy-comparison/

5. Toyota Camry

Bottom line? We respect the 2015 Toyota Camry far more than we like it. Thanks to its evergreen reputation for reliability and quality, it remains the best car to recommend to people who forget what they drive once they park it. Conversely, Toyota seems to rely on return buyers who will trade in their old Camrys for new ones every three years. Despite the face-lift, the car has fallen behind the midsize state-of-the-art in terms of rich, sumptuous interiors and technical advances. If your 2012 Toyota Camry is still running like a top, it’s probably worth waiting for the all-new 2018 model.

4. Subaru Legacy

“Plenty of Camry buyers would do well to shop for a Legacy instead,” Capparella says. “It’s not more interesting than the Toyota, but offers some significant improvements in terms of interior style, visibility, fuel efficiency, and its AWD, while it retains all the strengths that make the Toyota so popular.”Weiner finds the exclusive AWD feature the Legacy’s only advantage.“It’s not a bad car, especially considering how similar all these midsizers are, but it is the most blandly styled in a segment replete with vanilla,” Weiner says. “The interior feels cheap, with flat seats, plasticky buttons and a generally hollow, budget feel to the cabin.”


3.Hyundai Sonata

The 2015 Hyundai Sonata provides a compelling combination of Mazda6 distinction, Honda Accord value, and Toyota Camry roominess. It’s the midsize sedan we’d most recommend to friends and family who care most about comfort and convenience and don’t mind a little extra style in their automotive appliances.

2. Honda Accord

Our perennial favorite, the 2015 Honda Accord nearly stole the show with its combination of predictable chassis dynamics, a capacious interior, and classic low-cowl outward visibility, which makes it an exceptionally easy car to drive in any traffic. The car emphasizes design simplicity, and it is not overtly sporty. It is very well mannered. “Better steering than the Mazda’s,” Weiner says. “It’s a bit quicker and more fluid. The design is perhaps showing its age a little, but everything in this car is easy to engage with. Most of the time I am not thinking much while driving this one, but when I do I’m impressed with it. Fantastic ride/handling balance....”

1. Mazda6

We agreed the Mazda6 is the sleekest, best-looking sedan here, though the outward visibility and rear seat package suffer as a result. To make a sedan look this rakish without severely compromising headroom, designers raise the beltline between the B- and C-pillars, which creates a sort of cavernous effect for rear-seat passengers. Though the Mazda6 has an overtly sporting flavor, we’d rate the 2.5-liter Skyactiv-G inline-four engine -- and the car’s well-balanced ride and handling dynamics -- within a hair of the Honda Accord either way. “It’s the only one of the bunch that could even remotely be called a sport sedan,” Capparella says. “There’s a fluidity to the handling that even the Accord can’t match."

thebean

akirby said:

No such thing as a blind spot if you adjust your mirrors properly. And the Honda system only works on the passenger side, not the driver's side. A simple light in the side mirror (which you should be checking anyway) is much easier to see and interpret than looking at a camera picture.

Having driven both types of BSM, I disagree.  The Honda system is much more effective for me.  YMMV.

stickguy

I love the BLIS monitor on the Sonata. even with mirrors set, sometimes you miss something (especially in the dark or bad weather). Doesn't replace checking, but it is a great backup system.

the rear cross-path is also very helpful for when you get stuck between a couple of trucks and have to back up mostly blind out of a parking spot.

brian125

The handling is superior in the mazda6. Radio is better , back up camera is worse than Accords. I agree with the review. Also to much road noise in the Mazda6 , No upgrade engines, not enough h/p in the 4cyl. for me. Seats are uncomfortable for a 6' plus person. Mazda6 is smaller inside with visibility not as good. The Accord is hands down a better vehicle in my eye having owned one. Mazda6 is a good clean sharp car that has a lot of positives on its side. Its not going to cut it as a family sedan ... What ever your preference is ................... that's what counts.

The Toyota Camry seats are very comfortable I like them better than my old Accord or the Mazda6

Honda's BSM is the best feature out there right now. The blinking mirror sensor is ok.

ral2167

Honda BSM is the worst feature. You press a button and then look at a screen to see if there's a car on the passenger side. Or you turn your signal on and look at the screen. How is either of these choices better than just looking for a light on the passenger side mirror? Am I nuts?

suydam

You use your turn signal when you are changing lanes. The camera goes on automatically. It's very useful when changing into a right lane because you are already looking that direction. That said, my Buick has the Blinking sensor and rear cross traffic alert which are both extremely helpful. Honda, however, for its part has Forward Collision Alert which is useful too. I wish the car companies would standardize all these safety features!

benjaminh

Seems like there's something of a midsize price/financing battle going on at the moment. Nissan, for instance, has all sorts of incentives on the Altima, including 0% financing for up to 72 months. I've had the Altima as a rental car a few times, and it seems second-rate to me in all sorts of ways. But there's no denying that it gives you a lot of bang for the buck:

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/altima/2015/car-incentives.html

brian125

Just sent a friend over to Infinite leasing in Brooklyn he was looking for a cheap lease. He leased a 2015 Altima 3yr, 36k for $169 nothing out of pocket . That's a perfect price and vehicle for someone that wants enough room and could care less what midsize is better rated.

stickguy

yeah, from my shopping around, the Camry and Altima are the 2 that are really cheap to lease. And for basic, reliable, roomy and economical transportation, perfect choices.

though if you can afford a little bit more per month, can get into a Sonata, Fusion, or a 6 instead. then an Accord. But the Accord is always going to be more.

Just have to avoid models with any options on them!

explorerx4

My ecoboost 2.0's seem to like warm weather. Mileage is way up and the power is great. If you are used to v8 type torque like I am, the 2.0's are great, especially on hills. My Fusion and Escape just walk away from other similar vehicles and don't even need to downshift.

benjaminh

20 years ago a Ford T-Bird with the optional V-8 had the stats below. Today some of our 4-cylinder midsize sedans with the standard engines will outperform it:

"The 4.6 L V8 produced 205 horsepower (153 kW) at 4500 rpm and 265 lb·ft (359 N·m) of torque at 3200 rpm and brought with it an updated powertrain control module, the EEC-V (base V6 Thunderbirds and Super Coupes continued to use the older EEC-IV). An electronically controlled 4R70W 4-speed automatic transmission replaced the AOD automatic transmission in all instances where it was previously used in the Thunderbird. Car and Driver reviewed the 4.6 L V8 and it managed a 0 to 60 mph acceleration time of 8.1 seconds and a quarter-mile being completed in 16.3 seconds at 87 mph."

explorerx4

@benjaminh, What are the numbers for a same era 4cyl? I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that engine technologies have improved over the last 20 years.

stickguy

a 1995 Contour or Tempo 4 cyl, would not sniff those #s.

backy

I guess I'm the only person who is amazed that it took until the 2016 MY for Honda to put a 60/40 rear seat into the Accord... something competitors and lesser cars have had for many years.

stickguy

that was odd, but I had my 2005 for 7 years, and I think I folded the rear seat down once. so was not that big a deal to me.

stickguy

as to the ecoboost engines, I was surprised by how quick the 1.6l was in the Escape my daughter and I drove recently. and a few years back I tested a 2.0l Edge, and was shocked at the pull it had. no real difference to the V6.

nyccarguy

The modern, turbocharged, direct injected, 4 cylinders out on the market today are nice engines. Although I think DI engines need new spark plugs at 50K ((I could be wrong). Coupled with today's 6 + speed automatic & CVT transmissions there is almost no "need" for a 6 cylinder. My Legacy's power is adequate, but the CVT really makes the most of its 175 horsepower. My car would be slower than death with a conventional 4-Speed Automatic from say 10 years ago.

No matter how powerful, torquey, & efficient a turbo 4 is, some people just prefer a 6. A few years ago my dentist was looking to get rid of his 2002 A4 3.0 Quattro. He decided he liked the Q5. He drove the 2.0T and the 3.2 back to back. He said he liked the smoothness of the 3.2L V6 better.

I just filled up the Legacy tonight with 420 miles on the tank. It still read 70 to go. I got a respectable 27 mpg.

sda

benjaminh said:

And temple of VTEC is reporting some added equipment for the 2016 Accord:

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1238734

We've received some info concerning the upcoming 2016 Accord mid-cycle model change (MMC) and below is a summary of the changes we will see. It looks like Honda is really swinging for the fences with this MMC.

LX

+ LED Tail Lights
Available Honda Sensing*
Sport

+ 60/40 rear seat
+ 19" Alloy Wheels
+ LED DRL
Available Honda Sensing*
EX

+ 60/40 rear seat
+ Display Audio (with Enhanced Display Audio Technologies)
+ Homelink
+ XM Radio
+ HD Radio
+ LED DRL
+ LED Fog Lights
+ Remote Engine Start
+18" Alloy Wheels (Coupe)
Available Honda Sensing*
EX-L

Sedan: No Changes
Coupe: + Memory Seats
Available Display Audio+ (Navigation)
Available Honda Sensing*
Touring

+ 19" Alloy Wheels
+ Heated Rear Seats
+ Parking Sensors
+ Rear Spoiler
+ Rain Sensing Wipers
+ Auto high-beam headlights
+ Standard Honda Sensing
NEW: Touring Coupe
*Honda Sensing Adds:

Adaptive Cruise Control
CMBS (Cars & Pedestrian)
Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS)
Road Departure Mitigation (RDM)
Forward Collision Warning (FCW)
Lane Departure Warning (LDW)

Nice uptick in features for the EX. Wish my 13 had the Homelink, XM/HD radio and 60/40 backseat. The remote start would be nice too. I am puzzled why the EX does not get a leather wrapped steering wheel, the Sport does and its price is less.

berri

How come more and more cars are getting blind spot monitors, but on the large crossovers they only come on the top of the line models? Doesn't make any sense since the crossovers are harder to see out of.

brian125

Its all about the $$$.. These new safety features should be standard on every vehicle and not a option. Build them into the msrp . Until the Gov't. passes new standards on the car companies it wont change.

brian125

@nyccarguy,

Bradd

If I remember correctly: Did your parents have the Porsche Cayenne before the X-5?

Did they upgrade to a newer model or change brands? My 2012 X-5 ( 2nd one ) I 'm going to dump off soon for a 2016 model. I'm tossed between another X-5 or going Audi Q or SQ5. The X-3 is ok but need it loaded to excite me @55k..... Why bother.

Not many folks here own a X-5 so feedback for me is limited.

nyccarguy

brian125 said:

@nyccarguy,

Bradd

If I remember correctly: Did your parents have the Porsche Cayenne before the X-5?

Did they upgrade to a newer model or change brands? My 2012 X-5 ( 2nd one ) I 'm going to dump off soon for a 2016 model. I'm tossed between another X-5 or going Audi Q or SQ5. The X-3 is ok but need it loaded to excite me @55k..... Why bother.

Not many folks here own a X-5 so feedback for me is limited.

Yes, they owned a 2011 V6 Cayenne which they traded in for a 2013 X5 35i Premium. Their 2013 is not the current body style, but is the same as yours. Im sorry i cant give you much in the way of feedback on the new model. Maintenance costs for the Cayenne were insanely high. They spent close to 10% of the car's original sticker price on maintenance during the 2 1/2 years & 55K miles they owned it.

I can tell you that they are far from thrilled with the X5. Once it is out of warranty, they will most likely dump it. For what, I have NO IDEA. They will both tell you hands down that the Cayenne is a much nicer driving vehicle.

brian125

nyccarguy,

Cayenne I'd love but not at that price to drive around NYC. Macon to small. This year's Cayenne has the V-6 turbo no more 8. Still to much $$$............Thanks

benjaminh

What's the farthest you've ever gone on one tank of gas in your midsize car? We just had a highway trip where we went 560 miles on a tank of gas in our 2013 Accord, and we still had one more gallon in the tank.

suydam

At about 520 I tend to fill the tank. But on a trip to Kalamazoo, which is only 300 miles from me, I had plenty to drive there, spend 4 days doing in town driving, and drive back past Toledo before I finally got gas. I think that was around 550.

stickguy

about 400 miles on my Sonata, but that was not on a longer trip. I also get gas at about 1/4 (or sooner) and don't push it. I don't plan to ever find out where the low fuel light is on my car.

when I fill up, even after doing mixed driving, the RTE is usually just over 500 miles.

nyccarguy

522.7 miles is the furthest I've ever gone on one tank in my Legacy. I also ran out of gas about a mile from the closest gas station on that tankful

robr2

I had a Sonata as a rental last week in San Francisco/Sacramento. It got about 27 mpg and 427 miles before I filled up. The DTE said I still had 50 miles but I was on the way to the airport to return it.

I get similar mileage with my Passat but range is not nearly as good as the fuel tank is only 15 gallons. I'm guessing the Sonata has about an 18 gallon tank.

Michaell

A new driver started at the pizza place where I moonlight. Drives a new Sonata Hybrid. She tells me she gets close to 600 miles on a tank - she commutes about 60 miles a day to Denver and back.

stickguy

Sonata tank us 18.5. In my experience, based on how much it takes to fill, the DTE is very conservative. Either that, or it never a fills all the way!

robr2

Although I posted my results, the "miles per tank" is a poor tool for comparison as not all cars have the same tank size. I get a similar miles per tank (300-350) in all my cars but the tank sizes differ:

Passat 15 gallon
Odyssey 18 gallon
Explorer 20 gallon.

I guess it matters if you take many road trips as fewer stops for fuel would be required. Then again, my bladder has a much lower distance to full than any of my cars have distance to empty.

robr2

As for the Sonata, this was a rental from Hertz via Hotwire. I paid $125 including taxes for 5 days out of SFO. The car had 55K miles on it and new tires. This is twice in a row I've gotten a rental via Hotwire at Hertz that had over 50K miles. I wonder if they keep a couple of cars out back for us cheap Hotwire renters.

Anyway, it was comfortable for the 500 or so miles I drove. Air vents are pretty bad for holding my phone mount. Plastics were very hard. The media system took a while to figure out so I could pair my phone. Parallel parking is tough. It needs backup sensors. Trunk was huge and it swallowed my carryon and laptop bag. It accelerated just fine then again in SF and Sacramento Valley traffic, 0-60 isn't the most important feature.

Overall, it was fine for a rental. I wouldn't buy one as the styling has gotten stale IMHO.

stickguy

Was this a new style 15 or a old 14? With that mileage I guess old style.

My last few hertz rentals through AAA were all hi miles (40-50k range). They do it to everyone. I have to start asking about miles, not just model!

backy

On a trip to Texas and back last December, I did some 400+ mile segments before filling up, but bladders gave out before the gas tank. Given the ~37 mpg we averaged on the trip, with some days on the highway better than that, and the 18.5 gallon tank, it would have been pretty easy to exceed 600 miles on a tank. But when you gotta go, you gotta go!

stickguy

At this point,mi can never outlast my gas tank. But it is nice to not have to get dirty in the middle of a trip.

explorerx4

Most I've gotten with my Fusion is 543, still had a gallon and a half or so left. That wasn't one of my best fuel mileage tanks, although pretty good.

robr2

stickguy said:

Was this a new style 15 or a old 14? With that mileage I guess old style.

My last few hertz rentals through AAA were all hi miles (40-50k range). They do it to everyone. I have to start asking about miles, not just model!

It was a 2013 model. I couldn't believe it had Florida plates on it in California.

When I got to the desk, the agent told me I had been assigned a Mustang convertble. She did everything she could to get me out of that car I'm guessing based on the rate. She offered me a Q50 and I said sure. Then she said the rate was double. So she offered me a Cruze. I told her I would take the Mustang. All of a sudden, no Mustang. She offered me a Cruze. I told her my rate was for a standard size car (Chrysler 200 or equal) and that's what I wanted at a minimum. When I booked through Hotwire and got that rate, I checked Hertz' site directly and the same car class was $90 a day.

ab348

Maybe they keep a fleet of miled-up 2013 Sonatas in a back lot for Hotwire customers.

robr2

ab348 said:

Maybe they keep a fleet of miled-up 2013 Sonatas in a back lot for Hotwire customers.

It wouldn't surprise me. The previous time I used Hotwire, I wound up with a black/black Jetta (in Las Vegas) with over 50K from Hertz as well.

suydam

They all seem to be keeping cars much longer now. My last 2 rentals had over 40k on them (not Hertz).

[Deleted User]

stickguy said:

Exl was always heated leather seats and XM radio mostly.

The ILX is actually perfectly equipped for me, in premium trim. Even has "real" blind spit monitoring. Just need to add a spare tire, but the well is there!

I had a chance to drive my neighbors new Civic Si, sealing of the ILX....which is a Civic chassis. OMG. The 6 manual was notch and a delight to use, clutch take smooth and easily modulated... and based on feel aster driving my car I would say it does 60 in 6.6 seconds. It's Infotainment system has way more options than mine, and was a bit obtuse until I got used to it. My neighbor needed me to set his hone, time, Bluetooth, etc... and in return we switched cars and he followed me in my Optima. No contest. He could not catch me in his car at all. I was also shocked at how much back seat room there was. So, if the ILX 2.4 is ANYTHING like the Si, buy it.

stickguy

the ILX is softer and heavier. AT only too. More "civilized".

the Honda place in MA with a nifty lease calculator was offering an Si with Navi, for $222/month with about $500 to drive off. quite a deal.

[Deleted User]

I have to apologize for that last post grammar wise. My Surface keyboard is malfunctioning. A dew keys do not work. Honda still builds the sweetest/smoothest sounding inline 4's on earth. I still remember my girlfriend in 1994 bringing home her Civic EX.... and the '15 Si brought back clear memories of that first time drive in a new Honda. I have stood up for my Kia for many years here.... and I still love it.... but I want an Accord Sport IF they make leather and a nicer infotainment system available Make mine a stick too.

[Deleted User]

robr2 said:

As for the Sonata, this was a rental from Hertz via Hotwire. I paid $125 including taxes for 5 days out of SFO. The car had 55K miles on it and new tires. This is twice in a row I've gotten a rental via Hotwire at Hertz that had over 50K miles. I wonder if they keep a couple of cars out back for us cheap Hotwire renters.

Anyway, it was comfortable for the 500 or so miles I drove. Air vents are pretty bad for holding my phone mount. Plastics were very hard. The media system took a while to figure out so I could pair my phone. Parallel parking is tough. It needs backup sensors. Trunk was huge and it swallowed my carryon and laptop bag. It accelerated just fine then again in SF and Sacramento Valley traffic, 0-60 isn't the most important feature.

Overall, it was fine for a rental. I wouldn't buy one as the styling has gotten stale IMHO.

It looks a lot more like a Optima