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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    ~200 hp is hardly "underpowered" for all but the most aggressive autobahn speed needs for a midsize sedan.

    200 horses are under the hood of many a late-model Suburban I see motoring around Birmingham at 80 MPH; I bet its fine - even peppy - for a 3,300 lb sedan. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    It's Magic! Not having a V6 in it helps, but it is probably underpowered, so it may not get up to speed as fast as one may like, but get good FE. It probably has a low COD too.

    ~200 hp is hardly "underpowered" for all but the most aggressive autobahn speed needs for a midsize sedan.

    200 horses are under the hood of many a late-model Suburban I see motoring around Birmingham at 80 MPH; I bet its fine - even peppy - for a 3,300 lb sedan. :)
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    I have the car, and it definitely does not feel underpowered. It is maybe only slightly slower-feeling than the previous generation Sonata's V6 (although I thought definitely more torquey)... pretty impressive from a 4 cylinder. It is mostly because the car is so lightweight. I have had it up to about 120 so far, and it had room to keep going if I wanted it to. More than fast enough for any reasonable (or even pretty unreasonable) driving.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited April 2010
    Click me!

    Um, why? Last time I checked, only about 5% of Accord sales is the coupe. And I've seen all of ONE Altima coupe on the road in the 2+ years it's been in production. Ask Toyota how well the Solara did for them...

    If Hyundai actually wants to produce something worthwhile, how about a wagon? It'd be nice to have a choice of wagons in this class, besides the overpriced TSX and all the poseur "crossovers" (which are themselves overpriced, ugly "tall wagons".)
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    They posted a 2.1 Billion $ profit. Not bad for a domestic car company that did not take any bailouts. Could it be because they saw the writing on the way, "Shape up, or Ship out" ?
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Posts: 750
    ... how about a wagon? It'd be nice to have a choice of wagons in this class, besides the overpriced TSX and all the poseur "crossovers" (which are themselves overpriced, ugly "tall wagons".)

    I try not to look at a wagon. It's so ugly, imo.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    I see Accord coupes all the time and the Altima coupes are hot, but I do see less of them. I'm guessing they feel like the numbers work enough for them to do it.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    It will be underpowered for those who are accustomed to V6 power and performance. Check the specs, that is 198 HP @ 6300 RPM, 184 #ft of torque at 4250 RPM. You have to wind it out to get that power. A wound up 4 banger is pretty loud, which most people wont like either. We haven't seen the specs yet on the Turbo engine, nor any road tests, but the current release of the Sonata has one engine, and that is what is for sale. Not having a V6 may hurt their sales until the turbo comes out, only because if someone who currently has a V6 powered sedan, and is looking for a replacement, the car may not be up to their liking for power.

    It wasn't meant as a negative, it was meant to explain how they can get the kind of FE out of the Sonata. To do so you need an underpowered car. Might as well get used to it though, these are the kinds of cars we will be seeing come 2016 when 35MPG is mandated, good luck finding a V6 powered car.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    If you're talking FE, the turbo will get excellent FE as well and will have quite a bit of power. The base I4 on the Sonata now gets great FE and is more powerful than the base 4 on the older model.

    More power, better fuel economy.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    When it is released, and has a record, then lets see if it truly gets what Hyundai claims. I have the Flex with Ecoboost, it doesn't get what Ford claims in FE. One of the problems is, you MUST drive it granny style, to meet EPA, if not, you just don't get the ratings. So lets wait and see what the Turbo 4 gets in the real world, when it gets released. Both engines in the Flex get the same EPA ratings, both get similar real world economy, both are under EPA. The 2011 is still too new to get real world numbers in FE, so we will need to wait for both before we will know for sure about the numbers.

    At least with the Ford Fusion, the 4 is getting EPA in the 30's, and that is right about what people are seeing. The V6 is also getting right about what the EPA ratings are, so with any luck, so will Hyundai.
  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,381
    That's what I don't does Hyundai fit all that space in the Sonata (and the trunk, which is huge) and still get the stellar MPG?

    Most of that space is just that .. space. Air doesn't weigh much so making a large cabin does not necessarily carry a huge weight penalty; just the added weight from an extra inch or two of materials for length and maybe height. I've talked to limo drivers and they've said that other than a lengthened drive shaft that the limos have not needed beefed up powertrains to deal with the added size since most of it's empty interior space; there isn't that much added weight.

    No V6 cuts weight, which also helps, but comparing to other 4-bangers I'd say the difference is our buddy Al. Aluminum weighs less than steel and I bet if you examined a Sonata from front to back you'd find the use or more aluminum and other lightweight materials. I doubt there's a magic bullet, just judicious trimming of a few ounces here and a pound there that added up to a large-yet-light car.

    Look at the tricks they do on race/sports cars like drilling holes in the gas & brake pedals to shave ounces. There's no reason those tricks can't be applied to appliance sedans; it just takes the engineering discipline and manufacturing lines to support it. Prior to CAFE shooting skyward there was nothing to drive the manufacturers to make the attempt.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    One of the problems is, you MUST drive it granny style, to meet EPA, if not, you just don't get the ratings

    True for any car. If I dig into the throttle and kick my iVtec 2.4L to high-revs often my MPG drops of rapidly. If you ride the torque down-low though you keep things running more efficiently. My Honda has a modest torque peak (160lb-ft at 4,000 RPM) but it's very flexible. I'd love to see a dyno run of the Honda K24 engine in my '06 Accord.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Elantra Touring
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Not necessarily, I can mash the gas on my Fusion Sport, and still get respectable FE, but mash the gas on the Flex, and it shows. The turbos can really chew into the FE when put to use, so you have to drive it lighter than the non turbo engine if you want to get decent numbers. Anytime the turbos spool up, you can bet there is a good amount of fuel being used, so the less you use it, the better the FE. Then again, those who buy it(like me) aren't looking for FE, but kickass performance.
  • avucarguyavucarguy Posts: 56
    I agree with you on that. In my younger years I used to own an 86 Subaru XT turbo which I drive aggressively. The fuel economy is poor when you keep the turbo charger working regularly. I am sure Hyundai's new turbo charged engine is much better, but FE will not be as advertised if you have fun with it.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I had no idea the Altima was even available as a coupe.
  • ...came away absolutely impressed.

    The cars were Pacific Blue with Gray cloth/leather interior with the hard to find Sunroof/Navigation Pkg and Indigo Blue/Gray without the nav/sunroof pkg.

    Exterior: Beautiful, from the color to the 18 inch wheels the Sonata in SE trim in Pacific Blue Pearl looks excellent. I like how the color changes depending on the lighting. We've gotten rain off and on all day in my area (Upstate, SC) so depending on the angle and where the car was parked it looked green sometimes and at other times it looked dark blue. In direct sunlight its a nice dark blue-green. It's my favorite of all the colors for the new Sonata...Harbor Gray is a close second, though I'm eager to see how the Limited Trim will look in Plum and Camel. The 18s on the Sonata really bring out the look and make the car look more proportioned IMO. The 17s on the Limited are OK but smallish, I prefer the design of the 16s available on the GLS models over the Limited wheels honestly. On the website I figured I'd prefer the Indigo Blue Pearl to the Pacific Blue Pearl but in person I think the IBP is too bright of a blue for a car of the Sonata's class. Just not my cup of tea.

    Interior: Navigation system is really nice, though I'll admit I've never really played with one. I like the push button start, the gauge cluster is real nice and futuristic and the center stack has a nice design. Some of the interior materials were hard to the touch and felt lower grade than the 2009-2010 model years but overall the interior is on par with the Accord and better than everything else in the class...this includes Fusion, Malibu, Camry, Mazda6 and Altima. Front room was pretty good (I'm only 5 feet 9) and rear seat room was good too, only problem I really had was getting in and out of the back seat. The sharp cutlines in the design of the roof can make ingress and egress a challenge for folks taller than myself. The Cloth seats inside the model I drove were "gray" and I wasn't particularly crazy about them but they weren't bad. The fabric felt a bit coarse though. I really wish the "Camel" interior was available on SE models because I prefer the Camel to any other interior color (especially WINE)

    The Drive: I drove the IBP one first but it had a minor steering issue. Upon take off out of the dealership the car had this lumpy-thumpy feel to the steering. I told the salesmen about it and we took it back to the dealership. He could feel it himself. I'm thinking the tires were overinflated or something. I wanted to drive the Pacific Blue one first but the sales manager couldn't find the keys so we took the IBP one out instead. By the time we got back to the dealership the salesmen finally got the keys to the PBP one and I took it out for a spin. No steering/lumping problems with this model and the power was impressive. Really good take off in traffic, really good pick up power on the interstate and it felt more powerful than my 05 Altima. I'd driven a Silver Limited a month or two ago and the power of all three seemed to be comparable. I didn't expect a difference in power but I did notice that the SE model has sharper and firmer steering, which I really liked. The Limited Model I drove felt more Camryish that I had liked. I also felt a bit of torque steer in the SE model that I had not noticed in the Limited. The test drive was done on some patched up roads in the area and the Sonata handled them nicely. It definitely rides, handles and has better power than the 09-10 Sonata I4, which I felt was underpowered and sloppy handling-wise. The Sonata SE feels more Honda Accord than Toyota Camry this go round.

    The Price:I've noticed Hyundai's steady increase in pricing over the last couple of years but I was a bit shocked at first when I saw the Price of the PB Sonata SE with the Sunroof/Nav. But when you look at the long list of standard and optional equipment on the car it didn't seem so bad. Navigation, push button start, iPod Cable, leather/cloth seats, power sunroof, 18 inch alloy wheels. I priced out similar competition. Malibu, Accord, Camry and Altima all come within a few Hundred bucks give or take for similar equipment (though none of them can be had with the Sonata SE's Navigation System or 18 inch wheels) I guess I'd just become accustomed to the Sonata undercutting them in price. Salesmen tried to get me to buy, but I'm holding out until the Turbo model (and the Kia Optima) are available...unless my jalopy 05 Altima falls apart (and it probably will.) Overall I came away impressed by the car, I got to spend a lot of time in various models while at Atlanta and NYC's autoshows and the car is really impressive for the class. From the power, feature content to the looks. It's a really nice car and if not for me wanting the Turbo model, I would have haggled on the price of the SE.
    The Price of a Sonata SE with Nav/Sunroof pkg is comparable to the Price of a Sonata Limited without Nav. Too bad you can't get a Sonata SE with Sunroof and without Navigation. I noticed some GLS models have the Limited's 17 inch wheels. Hyundai is offering a "Spring Event Upgrade" pkg on GLS models with the PEP pkg that gives you the wheels, mats and I think the ipod cable for a whopping $100 MSRP! Not bad.Funny how just six years ago when I got my 05 Altima I would have never considered a Hyundai, now the new Sonata is at the top of my list and I won't even consider the current Altima. Honda, Nissan and Toyota need keep an eye on the new Sonata, it really shows how complacent all three manufacturers have become (especially Honda)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Excellent write up.

    Too bad you can't get a Sonata SE with Sunroof and without Navigation.

    IMO, this is the dumbest move that Hyundai pulled. Why should I be saddled with a softly-sprung Limited in order to get a sunroof without a $$$$-wasting Nav system?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Hyundai made adjustments to the Sonata equipment packaging after the Gen 4 debuted in 2005 (e.g. made power seat much easier to get after the 2006 MY), and I expect some tweaking in option packages will occur in the not too distant future--including better availability of moonroof on GLS and SE.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    Can someone who has the Ford Fusion Sport AWD comment on the quality of the headlights? Do they provide effective illumination at night?

  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,095
    It is with great sadness that we announce that our dedicated Host, Pat, passed away just before midnight on April 29. Pat battled a rare autoimmune disease called systemic Scleroderma.

    Pat became a member of the Forums in 1997 and was asked to become a host in 1999. Pat was diligent in her role as the Host of Sedans and while some may not always have agreed with her decisions, she always sought to make Sedans an inclusive place for automotive consumers to gain information and support. As a co-worker and friend, she will be greatly missed. At this very sad time for Pat’s family, we extend our deepest sympathy and condolences.

    Edmunds Manager UGC Click on my screen name to send a personal message. Need help navigating? Check out Getting Started in Edmunds Forums.
    Need help picking out a make/model, finding inventory, or advice on pricing? Talk to an Edmunds Car Shopping Advisor

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Not to sound like a smart-aleck, but have you tried driving it at night? I do realize that the days are much longer, but perhaps you could explain to the dealer why you'd want to keep the car overnight, even if just driving it home (or on a dark road) then back the next morning.

    One person may feel the lights are good, only because they are relative to another vehicle they have that has poor headlights. Its best to find these things out yourself. :)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Even though this is an online community, one gets to "know" people.

    Pat was an integral part of the conversation in these forums. My condolences go out to her family. Pat will be missed.

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I had no idea she was ill - I too feel like pat and I go way-back. I joined the forums in '05, and through many discussions, we usually agreed, sometimes disagreed, but were always friends. I knew I hadn't seen her around lately, and am saddened to hear why. As a relatively long-time member of this forum, I can truly say she'll be missed.
  • My girlfriend is in the market to upgrade from her 2000 Corolla. She was set on just getting a Prius, but I insisted she drive a few other cars. I first had her drive Mazda6 iGT and she seemed to like it ok (except for the red instrument lighting), but when she drove the 2011 Sonata Limited she liked it better. Now I just need to convince her away from the Prius...
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    Very sorry to hear of Pat's passing on.
    Considering that she was a moderator on Edmunds for many years and we never met her in person, do you know if there is an online portal through the funeral home to post thoughts or condolences?
    I understand that there are privacy concerns, but I am sure there are Edmunds members who would like to express their thoughts there, if available.

    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • xmechxmech Posts: 90
    edited May 2010
    Well, I have an SE, But I doubt the headlights are any different, and I think the headlights are a little lacking, although I find for driving around the city highways, like I usually do they are fine. I had to adjust the fog lights up quite a bit, and I've heard some people adjusted the headlights up a little, too. I might have done it if I was driving around the backwoods of Wisconsin, but like I said, their OK for the big city. I was amazed how useless the foglights were until adjusted properly, and I'm suprised for all they got right on the Fusion, how they could fumble when it comes to something so simple. I have a joke in my head about it, but the world is too politically correct and sensitive to laugh at ourselves, so I must refrain.... :cry:

    Also, my condolences also for Pat's passing. Didn't really know her, but sorry to hear one of our group has passed.
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Posts: 410
    Sorry to hear about Pat. She was a good host and moderator.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,016
    Why shouldn't she get a Prius if that's what she wants?
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
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