Midsize Sedans 2.0

ctl

Was looking to replace wife's commute car. Her daily commute is 50 mile mostly highway, comfort/quietness is her first priority. We tend to keep cars for 10+ years, so only considered Accord/Camry (actually Lexus ES too, value is important but budget not an issue). After test-driving both, must say for the similarly equipped/priced, this generation of Accord is better in many ways, looks inside-out, how it drives, power and overall feel. Even the quietness level is not far off. And we already came in biased since her current car is 2003 Camry.

At the end of the day though, we paid 4K+ more and walked away with a similarly equipped Camry hybrid. Much quieter than both, instance V6-like power, great MPG and something that doesn't feel so out-dated after 10 years in the age of electric cars. Accord hybrid is nice too, but no discount for 2017 so 6k+ more. (BTW, cheapest Lexus ES hybrid is 18K MSRP more than cheapest TCH with the same hybrid system...) Just to share the experience.

thebean

I'm an Accord fan, but you can't go wrong with a Camry.  I test drove both when I bought my '15 Accord, and I would been happy with either.  Determining factor for me was the Camry redesign in '15 and I don't like to buy cars their first year out.  Congrats on the wife's new Camry hybrid.  I'm sure it will give you many years of great service.

roadburner

cski said:

Oh, I will take some new pics and you can see for yourself the 5 year old vs the pics I took the day I brought it home. I will look for them ASAP. Everyone asks me "whats the secret on keeping it looking like it just rolled off the lot?" Shhhhhhhh. The secret is: WORK YOUR [non-permissible content removed] OFF CLEANING AND WAXING IT!!!!!!

Here's my wife's X3 after 12 years and 188,000 miles- it can be done:

brian125

roadburner

12 yrs looks great . Was this vehicle garaged? How much money did you sink into this vehicle after warranty ran out ?

Maybe you could have Mrs. @roadburner talk to my wife about proper car care. My wife's vehicles are a mess after 4 yrs. I couldn't imagine 12yrs.

berri

You mean it became a big purse

stickguy

My wife has no issues with car care. I do it all. And she is actually pretty neat inside. but never does any cleaning. Just mentions to me if it needs gas, or windows are dirty, etc.

roadburner

brian125 said:

roadburner

12 yrs looks great . Was this vehicle garaged? How much money did you sink into this vehicle after warranty ran out ?

Maybe you could have Mrs. @roadburner talk to my wife about proper car care. My wife's vehicles are a mess after 4 yrs. I couldn't imagine 12yrs.

Thanks! It is garaged but it has always been a daily driver. It had a couple of expensive issues a few years ago but nothing much lately. We paid it off in January 2007 so as far as I'm concerned we are coming out ahead versus leasing or trading a car every 4-5 years. It's a matter of priorities; what works for us might not suit someone else- and vice versa. As it stands now my wife still loves it and isn't interested in any other SUV; she drove a new X1 recently and said she still preferred her X3.

Michaell

stickguy said:

My wife has no issues with car care. I do it all. And she is actually pretty neat inside. but never does any cleaning. Just mentions to me if it needs gas, or windows are dirty, etc.

I am the "fleet manager", though my wife will put gas in the Outback if necessary.

stickguy

My wife only gasses up if desperate. And we are in jersey, so don't even have to get out to pump!

brian125

Njers will be feeling the gas tax pinch soon . Hopefully that extra tax money goes to the bridges and roads like there saying.

When I'm here in Staten Island I usually cross over the Outer bridge into NJ, Perth Amboy / Woodbridge area to gas up and get my booze . Nothing like saving a few bucks

stickguy

Good thing our legislature is dysfunctional, and can't get the increase passed. Once gas ain't cheap, really time to move.

benjaminh

Cars.com picks Passat as their favorite midsize sedan:

1. Passat
2. Optima
3. Malibu
4. Sonata
5. Accord
6. Legacy
7. Camry
8. Mazda6
9. Altima

For some reason they didn't test the Fusion?

https://www.cars.com/articles/whats-the-best-midsize-sedan-for-2016-1420684690275/

For the Accord they picked the Sport model, but then dinged it for not having pushbutton start, Moonroof, AndroidAuto, etc., all of which are on the EX models and above. Since I got the EX, almost none of the things they are complaining about are issues.

ab348

Surely some mistake?!? The beloved Mazda 6 next to last?

benjaminh

ab348 said:

Surely some mistake?!? The beloved Mazda 6 next to last?

Yes, it seems strange. I think the Mazda6 is one of the best if you value driving dynamics.

brian125

Sorry guys I disagree. Yes ben is right with the Mazda6 . ( driving dynamics its at the top but that's it. ) The mazda6 is not comfortable. Seats are terrible, Ingres / egress is terrible and the engine is noisy. A/c unit is very loud Not to mention it only comes with a 4cyl. I have test drove both the 2015 , 2016 model. Helped my neighbor's kid buy his 2016 touring model his dad says the same thing about this mazda6. The dad claims the Mazda6 labors with 4 or more occupants . The Fusion should be in that top 9

brian125

Buick Regal or Mazda6 . Has anyone test drove both???? any thoughts on these two vehicles.

As noted the Regal suffers with its underpowered 4cyl and bad gas mileage. strike one and two. I drove the Turbo model which was quick and very quiet inside the cabin. Both brands suffer the same problem a tight cabin . I thought the Regals ride was just as good with a quieter cabin but not as firm as Mazda. The Mazda handles better. Mazda is the better buy its cheaper and has much better gas mpg.

Does anyone know YTD sales on the 2015/ 16, Buick Regal ?? I'd bet there close to Mazda6's 4000 units sold last month.

ab348

Regal is not underpowered unless you chose to order the hybrid model which is no longer offered. The Regal's turbo 4 is standard and is very quick indeed. Regal is a far more upscale car, library-quiet inside, excellent NVH control, better interior, modern infotainment system. Also it can be had with AWD if you prefer. Really does not compare with the Mazda..

brian125

Buick Regal gets a redesign for 2018.

sda

brian125 said:

Buick Regal gets a redesign for 2018.

Unless, unfortunately, it gets the ax like the Verano. I have read rumors that might be the case. I hope not as the Regal is a really nice car, though it does have tight back seat.

brian125

It might . Thought I read somewhere that the Regal sells about 4k to to 6k units a month. Maybe @benjaminh can find sales numbers on the Regal

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/buick-verano-reportedly-heading-to-the-automotive-graveyard/

[Deleted User]

Hey, I wanted to show you guys why Hyundai/Kia were confident in not losing their tails in warranty claims. 4.4 years and 51k went by pretty fast, but imagine having 5 more years and 49k additional warranty....and knowing that "powertrain warranties" cover almost nothing,

So, I extended the powertrain portion of my warranty to bumper to bumper....just like it is covered now. (to those that are new I own (really own since I paid it off in July); a 2012 Kia Optima EX 2.4. To continue covering the car bumper to bumper until 10yr/100k cost me $899. I had one repair that would not have been covered (they did send me a TSB notice and I took it in and they said you can't tell by looking at it....and proceeded to tell me there are two fuel pumps in the 2.4. A high power pump for any power request over 1/4 throttle, and a low power pump for cruising...thus the EPA figures. Sure enough, two weeks later my high power fuel pump quit and I was able to limp it over to the dealer for repair. I didn't even need a tow.....and I had an appointment THAT DAY to get it replaced. Cray cray.

Now, for those who are not extended warranty buyers, that pump was $1,800. the labor was 1.5 hours. So, $2,200. So, almost anything that throws a code is gonna cost you $500 bucks, and the older the car gets the more failures are to be expected in an urban, hot, brutal area. Stop and go. Lots of engine idling. So here is my car pics now. If any one of you care to go back and look at my cars baby pics...they look EXACTLY the same.
Kia Optima=Good buy. IMO!!!!!!

berri

I think Fusion's drawback is fuel economy. But every car out there has something good and something less desirable.

brian125

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

stickguy

not that much money really for what you are getting. And look at it this way. would likely not be 3 payments (or the sales tax in NJ!) on a new one.

brian125

cski

Only kidding with you bud. Your Optima looks great. Its not easy to keep cars looking that good. Check out reviews on wax I been using for over 20 yrs. P21's wax works best on reds and darker colors.

I could wax my X-5 in 15 minutes that's how easy this wax goes on and off.

My grey Genesis paint looks like a sheet of glass deep rich wet looking. I get more compliments on that cars looks and shine than any I owned .

benjaminh

brian125 said:

It might . Thought I read somewhere that the Regal sells about 4k to to 6k units a month. Maybe @benjaminh can find sales numbers on the Regal

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/buick-verano-reportedly-heading-to-the-automotive-graveyard/

Looks like the Regal sold 19.5k united in calendar year 2015:

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/buick-regal-sales-figures.html

nyccarguy

Looks fantastic @cski!

andres3

ab348 said:

Regal is not underpowered unless you chose to order the hybrid model which is no longer offered. The Regal's turbo 4 is standard and is very quick indeed. Regal is a far more upscale car, library-quiet inside, excellent NVH control, better interior, modern infotainment system. Also it can be had with AWD if you prefer. Really does not compare with the Mazda..

Is standard base form RWD or FWD? I'd agree the Mazda is not upscale. I understand it's a family mid-size sedan, but it really needs a better engine. I like great handling as much as anyone, but without a good engine what's the point? So for the same reasons a mid-size family sedan doesn't need to handle well, it doesn't need a good engine? Mazda went against the grain with one but not the other, and what is funny as Honda and Toyota offer powerful V6's.

andres3

cski said:

Hey, I wanted to show you guys why Hyundai/Kia were confident in not losing their tails in warranty claims. 4.4 years and 51k went by pretty fast, but imagine having 5 more years and 49k additional warranty....and knowing that "powertrain warranties" cover almost nothing,

So, I extended the powertrain portion of my warranty to bumper to bumper....just like it is covered now. (to those that are new I own (really own since I paid it off in July); a 2012 Kia Optima EX 2.4. To continue covering the car bumper to bumper until 10yr/100k cost me $899. I had one repair that would not have been covered (they did send me a TSB notice and I took it in and they said you can't tell by looking at it....and proceeded to tell me there are two fuel pumps in the 2.4. A high power pump for any power request over 1/4 throttle, and a low power pump for cruising...thus the EPA figures. Sure enough, two weeks later my high power fuel pump quit and I was able to limp it over to the dealer for repair. I didn't even need a tow.....and I had an appointment THAT DAY to get it replaced. Cray cray.

Now, for those who are not extended warranty buyers, that pump was $1,800. the labor was 1.5 hours. So, $2,200. So, almost anything that throws a code is gonna cost you $500 bucks, and the older the car gets the more failures are to be expected in an urban, hot, brutal area. Stop and go. Lots of engine idling. So here is my car pics now. If any one of you care to go back and look at my cars baby pics...they look EXACTLY the same.
Kia Optima=Good buy. IMO!!!!!!

If there was a TSB shouldn't they step up to fix it regardless of whether you have an extended warranty or not? I know I'd be cursing if I had to spend $2,200 dollars on a fuel pump that didn't last 100K miles.

Mr_Shiftright

TSBs are not warranty items unless they specifically direct the dealer to warranty something. They are usually just "advisory" to the dealer, and he can ignore them if he wishes.

andres3

What I mean is it is so common a failure that it is a known major issue. Sounds like Recall material to me, or at least a "step up to the plate" opportunity for the manufacturer to stand behind their product.

brian125

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

andres3

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

I'm in the camp that doesn't quite get Macan S's or SQ5's. If you want a fast car, why get a big heavy SUV that is top heavy and can't turn very quickly. I suppose if you are forced to own one car, and only one car, and you have a family to haul around......

I'd rather go the 2-car method from now on; one for fun, and one for daily duties and hauling. I have the fun car, now I need to find something cheap but nice.

Mr_Shiftright

7.2 isn't so bad. It's maybe one second off the mark of some expensive German cars.

akirby

Recall - no. That's only for safety issues. Some people think that any "known issue" should be covered by warranty but that would equate to an unlimited factory warranty and the mfr would have to increase their costs accordingly. TANSTAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch).

akirby

It is good customer service however to go "above and beyond" for certain cases and extend the factory warranty to 100K or so.

ab348

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

R&T had the 220hp 2011 Regal Turbo FWD at 7.4 0-60. I owned one of these.

C&D had the 2014 Regal Turbo AWD with 252hp at 6.2 0-60. I suspect the FWD model might be a bit quicker. I drove one of these and it was noticeably quicker than my car.

The original 2.4NA engine had something like 184hp and was not quick, so that is likely the one that barely broke 10 seconds.

andres3

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

R&T had the 220hp 2011 Regal Turbo FWD at 7.4 0-60. I owned one of these.

C&D had the 2014 Regal Turbo AWD with 252hp at 6.2 0-60. I suspect the FWD model might be a bit quicker. I drove one of these and it was noticeably quicker than my car.

The original 2.4NA engine had something like 184hp and was not quick, so that is likely the one that barely broke 10 seconds.

Low 6 seconds is where I'd suspect a 252 HP car to be, so that makes more sense. Might be hard for a FWD car to beat 6.2 as you may get a lot of tire spin without AWD. I suppose you only need 1 in 10 good times to claim that good time though.

[Deleted User]

Adres3 said;

If there was a TSB shouldn't they step up to fix it regardless of whether you have an extended warranty or not? I know I'd be cursing if I had to spend $2,200 dollars on a fuel pump that didn't last 100K miles.

cski typically long response:

If you didn't need a tow, and it was covered under the regular factory 5/60 warranty I would think you would be pleased Do you understand how Gas Direct Injection(GDI) works? I spent zero and they changed the hi-pressure fuel pump, changed the oil and washed it....including power washing the rims and tires to get the grime off and a nice tire foam (same brand as I use). I was thrilled. It sounds like you don't like Korean cars. If I had a 3/36 warranty and it died at 46k that would be 10 YEARS over the factory warranty. No, they would NOT cover it under the terms I signed. Honda tricks people into thinking their cars are better.....and they are in some ways. The Korean cars are the same. Strong in some areas and weaker than others. You want to know why Honda ONLY HAS A 3/36????? It is not because it doesn't need a longer one, it's because they don't want to PAY FOR A LONGER ONE. That's how they got sued over all those tranny problems in 2007/08 people felt they deserved a transmission that would last longer than 40 to 75k...and I agree with them,
Kudos to Hyundai Kia and Chevy too for having the GUTS to stand behind their products long term. I can tell you that with all those horsepower and torque forces under my upcoming car, I am DAMN SURE buying a Fo** 5.0 extended warranty, for as long as they make one.

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

TSBs are not warranty items unless they specifically direct the dealer to warranty something. They are usually just "advisory" to the dealer, and he can ignore them if he wishes.

That is true, but fortunately my car is still under factory bumper to bumper warranty, and over time the tip of the 12,500PSI (a guess but some are u to 17,000PSI ) pump just blew its seal or seals. Now, I drive like Mario Andretti, so I was grateful they replaced it under warranty. Just the other week they covered $1,400worth of replacing my fuel cap door that opens by pushbutton.....but is run by a cable that runs all the way down the door, right next to the trunk release. There is a tip that holds it shut made of plastic...and it decided to break off...But I backed into a pole in a parking deck, and the next fill up it broke. No other damage; but they replaced it and said they replace about 2 a month. I wonder if they are metal now, Wouldn't that make more sense? Crap Chinese part. You would not believe how much Chinese parts are in most Asian cars. It just depends on what parts and how many. There are a few exceptions....very few. Kia and Hyundai build 100% of their 2.4 and 2.0 Turbo engines by scratch...then ship to America to trust us fat, lazy Americans to bolt in. LOL.

[Deleted User]

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

R&T had the 220hp 2011 Regal Turbo FWD at 7.4 0-60. I owned one of these.

C&D had the 2014 Regal Turbo AWD with 252hp at 6.2 0-60. I suspect the FWD model might be a bit quicker. I drove one of these and it was noticeably quicker than my car.

The original 2.4NA engine had something like 184hp and was not quick, so that is likely the one that barely broke 10 seconds.

Low 6 seconds is where I'd suspect a 252 HP car to be, so that makes more sense. Might be hard for a FWD car to beat 6.2 as you may get a lot of tire spin without AWD. I suppose you only need 1 in 10 good times to claim that good time though.

No, it has to make 2 runs, 1 in each direction to account for wind, and they take the average of those two. (CD at least) They also do all kinds of stuff we would NEVER do to get those figures in a car we own. That bothers me. I wanna know how fast my car is off the line w/o disabling traction control and revving it to 6,000 RPM and dumping it in drive. That is not how anyone that OWNS a nice car determines it's zero to 60. I just want to see real numbers. My car is a PIG off the line but as soon as it hits 30 it is gone. The faster I drive, the more planted it feels. I suspect the real spoiler and front air dam helped out. The air dam is cheap and effective, but was torn off recently in a parking snafu. just gotta get under there and put it back on but who wants to do that when it is 100 degrees and 90% humidity. Yuk. It was nice of them to give me 4 extra clips which is one 1 more than I need.

Anyway.....The spoilers do add downforce and there was a NOTICEABLE difference in handling.

[Deleted User]

Is there anyone else on the site that bought their midsize, then posted here their experiences the entire time they owned an entirely new car due to a gutsy move by the manufacturer: making it slinky, cheap to operate, and still seats 4 in complete comfort? (and 5 in relative but argumentative comfort with my three girls in back and 2 adults in front. No one wants to ride on the "Hump" However, this rarely happens. What always happens is a fight for the front seat, and whoever sits up front is in charge of the rides musical score. Oh, all girls aged 11 to 16 HATE Slayer, IRON MAIDEN, Dream Theater, and of all bands: Def Leppard. Go figure.

Then paid it off like me?

Any similar low operating costs? I am just curious..

The most expensive service ticket ever was $400 for 4 new factory tires so it would pass inspection. I found that to be reasonable and didn't want a rejection sticker on my vehicle while I priced out tires. No. $100 each installed and no fees or crap like 'valve stems" and "tire disposal".

Anyone else still have no plans of selling theirs?

Is it because of kids... and the fact that the only way to fit them in the back of a Mustang is to make their legs "optional" which makes my jail time "mandatory". Nullifying the need for the Mustang. Ever.

Anyone ever had their Optima or Sonata "explode" so many times that it was a lemon?

How many were pleasantly surprised with fit and finish, performance, and price for a car with leather (EX)?

Please I really would like to know how other folks have felt about their Sonoptimas.

stickguy

well, my Sonota is leased, so won't be paying that off to own! I did have my Accord for 8 years, and cheap to own. Should have kept that. Too bad the princess really wasn't getting the hang of the manual trans.

as to 0-60, look at consumers reports. They drive normally. sit at idle, then floor it. I also like C&D doing "street start" (5-60). Both are not abusive to the cars, and representative of what you can do in real life driving.

mcdawgg

stickguy said:

well, my Sonota is leased, so won't be paying that off to own! I did have my Accord for 8 years, and cheap to own. Should have kept that. Too bad the princess really wasn't getting the hang of the manual trans.

as to 0-60, look at consumers reports. They drive normally. sit at idle, then floor it. I also like C&D doing "street start" (5-60). Both are not abusive to the cars, and representative of what you can do in real life driving.

"Wasn't getting the hang of the manual trans"?? Huh? Back not too many years, there wasn't much choice - you either got the hang of it, or you did not drive, as automatics were not the "standard" like they are now. Seems like people just don't want to drive manual now, rather than can't.

[Deleted User]

Scouts honor: I swear to god in any of these sporty or full on sports cars C/D burns 1/8 worth of the lifetime of a clutch on each 2 way run. They also use launch control if equipped...so, no, I disagree. Maybe on day to day cars, but not on a Hellcat or a Camaro SS VS Mustang GT Coyote.

Come on man.....they are not just sitting there rolling off casually like my aunt Karen in her 2014 Buick Giaentclave (nothing mini about it).on her way to Walmart.....and, she doesn't know how to use the phone hands free through the very cool Infotainment system. I did it for her. Couldn't stand to see her die because I didn't help her get that going. When I showed her how to use Voice Text...she kissed me all over my face like a horse. Her kids thanked me, laughing their asses off. Now she calls me at least bi-weekly crying because she "broke it"

Turn on Bluetooth on Samsung Galaxy "any"....select "Karen's Buick" Begin driving".

[Deleted User]

brian125 said:

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

Oh, (chuckling) I do a full Mothers gold on it every major season change We have Summer, post summer where it is 72 to 82 degrees but no humidity and a nice breeze.That is the time for a clay job and a full on wax...not a quick wax...which is half water. BTW, the car had not been washed or even quick waxed in the pics. It was 6PM and ready to thunderstorm. Al pics were shot with crapo cell phone camera. Then all of a sudden December 22nd it is Winter, Plenty of time for layer after layer of beautifying and protecting good quality wax before then.
This time of the year in Virginia we get stuck under a Bermuda High, I frequent(Samsung Galaxy J5-2016) and actually use Turtle Wax- Quick-Wax, which really shines it up and makes it slippery again. I always do it at dusk or even at night because it is 97 to 102+ here in the day time. When you wake up at 5:30 AM and it is 82 degrees already....I am NOT wiping myself out on a full wax, Waxing in direct sunlight can cause the wax to set before you get to it. Most of us dudes found that out 30 years ago. having to compound a fender and then re-wax it and hope to god the clear coat stayed on our 87 Camaro with a head snapping 215 HP 302. Friggin government and lazy [non-permissible content removed] GM. I was lucky...the 87 had Multiport F/I. The 86 had TBI -(Toilet Bowl injection)

I don't know if the warranty is transferrable but I have 3 daughters that are gonna need a car, or at least borrow a car on a regular basis. I keep the title in my name and insure them under my name so the Kia extended service plan will stay in my name. I have actually got my eyes on the new Mustang, because I am 45 and I don't wanna wait till 65, and my license will have zero points on December 1st. On December 27th, as is the tradition in my family, I am going to buy a leftover 2016 Mustang GT premium with the track package. I decided that if I am to have a Mustang, I want as many performance and comfort items I can get, and usually the leftovers are all the high end cars they have trouble moving. I will start the hunt in the fall, My car will continue to be parked here and cared for, My first daughter to graduate on the A Honor roll gets the use of the car on a more permanent basis.The other two will get cars from my mother in law from the dealership she has worked for 35 years and does payroll for the entire franchise. I like to have a plan. Now, if my mother in law finds all three of them wholesale cars, I will sell my car and buy the Mustang with a lot of cash down, or I can always get a check from my home equity line of credit. A lot to think about....but I am HARD on my cars driving-wise, and I can tell you 100% that the Optima is built NOT TO FAIL. It is not as refined as a Honda,,,,but they use them as police cars in Korea.and not the Turbos. Regular 2.4 models do 90% of the duty. Only highway patrol Optimas are Turbos. (DC area is full of South Koreans I have a couple of Korean friends).

andres3 said:

What I mean is it is so common a failure that it is a known major issue. Sounds like Recall material to me, or at least a "step up to the plate" opportunity for the manufacturer to stand behind their product.

I don't know dude. I got a letter, so I took it in ASAP. The thinking is the faster you respond to a potential fuel related failure the better, and it did fail, so, the computer shuts down the Direct Injection and you are then stuck with the low pressure fuel injector that gets you those spectacular F/E ratings. It was HARD to drive slowly. Top speed? 63 with the time I had. (Had to take the Highway for a bit it was 3 miles to get from 45 to 63 and for me: painful. Around town? Fine. However, when I got it back with a fresh, accurate pump, I swear it was, and still is...a LOT quicker. It now FEELS like 200 HP. Also, is smoother, and

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

I'm in the camp that doesn't quite get Macan S's or SQ5's. If you want a fast car, why get a big heavy SUV that is top heavy and can't turn very quickly. I suppose if you are forced to own one car, and only one car, and you have a family to haul around......

I'd rather go the 2-car method from now on; one for fun, and one for daily duties and hauling. I have the fun car, now I need to find something cheap but nice.

AWESOME!!!! Exactly!!!! But then you still have to live FOREVER with "oh we could have gone to Aruba this year but my husband had to "blow" his Mustang engine (she has no idea what this means). "Isn't blowing an engine bad honey"? The correct answer

brian125 said:

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

Mr_Shiftright said:

7.2 isn't so bad. It's maybe one second off the mark of some expensive German cars.

Yeah but that one second kills the fun off the line. My car does 60 in 7.4 to 7.9 depending on who you believe. I believe both. It hates hot weather just like its owner. A/C is ultra cold though and rear occupants have own vents, center pull down console with cupholders, and I ran a charge line under the seats and the floormats for phone/7" Samsung Galaxy Pad3 recharging.

brian125

@cski

Pardon my eyes I'm on my 5th Jameson. Did you say you had 3 girls and want a Mustang now not @65 yrs old.......................... LOL

. My 3 kids beat me down between Cars, College Tuition, Wedding gifts, I'm starting to re Feel your pain.

Not sure of Kia's warranty but with Hyundai My selling dealer threw in the 10yr / 100k powertrain only bad thing its not transferable if you sell vehicle

akirby

An OEM spoiler is not going to make any difference in handling on the street.

[Deleted User]

brian125 said:

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

Oh, (chuckling) I do a full Mothers gold on it every major season change We have Summer, post summer where it is 72 to 82 degrees but no humidity and a nice breeze.That is the time for a clay job and a full on wax...not a quick wax...which is half water. BTW, the car had not been washed or even quick waxed in the pics. It was 6PM and ready to thunderstorm. Al pics were shot with crapo cell phone camera. Then all of a sudden December 22nd it is Winter, Plenty of time for layer after layer of beautifying and protecting good quality wax before then.
This time of the year in Virginia we get stuck under a Bermuda High, I frequent(Samsung Galaxy J5-2016) and actually use Turtle Wax- Quick-Wax, which really shines it up and makes it slippery again. I always do it at dusk or even at night because it is 97 to 102+ here in the day time. When you wake up at 5:30 AM and it is 82 degrees already....I am NOT wiping myself out on a full wax, Waxing in direct sunlight can cause the wax to set before you get to it. Most of us dudes found that out 30 years ago. having to compound a fender and then re-wax it and hope to god the clear coat stayed on our 87 Camaro with a head snapping 215 HP 302. Friggin government and lazy [non-permissible content removed] GM. I was lucky...the 87 had Multiport F/I. The 86 had TBI -(Toilet Bowl injection)

I don't know if the warranty is transferrable but I have 3 daughters that are gonna need a car, or at least borrow a car on a regular basis. I keep the title in my name and insure them under my name so the Kia extended service plan will stay in my name. I have actually got my eyes on the new Mustang, because I am 45 and I don't wanna wait till 65, and my license will have zero points on December 1st. On December 27th, as is the tradition in my family, I am going to buy a leftover 2016 Mustang GT premium with the track package. I decided that if I am to have a Mustang, I want as many performance and comfort items I can get, and usually the leftovers are all the high end cars they have trouble moving. I will start the hunt in the fall, My car will continue to be parked here and cared for, My first daughter to graduate on the A Honor roll gets the use of the car on a more permanent basis.The other two will get cars from my mother in law from the dealership she has worked for 35 years and does payroll for the entire franchise. I like to have a plan. Now, if my mother in law finds all three of them wholesale cars, I will sell my car and buy the Mustang with a lot of cash down, or I can always get a check from my home equity line of credit. A lot to think about....but I am HARD on my cars driving-wise, and I can tell you 100% that the Optima is built NOT TO FAIL. It is not as refined as a Honda,,,,but they use them as police cars in Korea.and not the Turbos. Regular 2.4 models do 90% of the duty. Only highway patrol Optimas are Turbos. (DC area is full of South Koreans I have a couple of Korean friends).

andres3 said:

What I mean is it is so common a failure that it is a known major issue. Sounds like Recall material to me, or at least a "step up to the plate" opportunity for the manufacturer to stand behind their product.

I don't know dude. I got a letter, so I took it in ASAP. The thinking is the faster you respond to a potential fuel related failure the better, and it did fail, so, the computer shuts down the Direct Injection and you are then stuck with the low pressure fuel injector that gets you those spectacular F/E ratings. It was HARD to drive slowly. Top speed? 63 with the time I had. (Had to take the Highway for a bit it was 3 miles to get from 45 to 63 and for me: painful. Around town? Fine. However, when I got it back with a fresh, accurate pump, I swear it was, and still is...a LOT quicker. It now FEELS like 200 HP. Also, is smoother, and

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

I'm in the camp that doesn't quite get Macan S's or SQ5's. If you want a fast car, why get a big heavy SUV that is top heavy and can't turn very quickly. I suppose if you are forced to own one car, and only one car, and you have a family to haul around......

I'd rather go the 2-car method from now on; one for fun, and one for daily duties and hauling. I have the fun car, now I need to find something cheap but nice.

AWESOME!!!! Exactly!!!! But then you still have to live FOREVER with "oh we could have gone to Aruba this year but my husband had to "blow" his Mustang engine (she has no idea what this means). "Isn't blowing an engine bad honey"? The correct answer

brian125 said:

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

Mr_Shiftright said:

7.2 isn't so bad. It's maybe one second off the mark of some expensive German cars.

Yeah but that one second kills the fun off the line. My car does 60 in 7.4 to 7.9 depending on who you believe. I believe both. It hates hot weather just like its owner. A/C is ultra cold though and rear occupants have own vents, center pull down console with cupholders, and I ran a charge line under the seats and the floormats for phone/7" Samsung Galaxy Pad3 recharging.

roadburner said:

cski said:

Oh, I will take some new pics and you can see for yourself the 5 year old vs the pics I took the day I brought it home. I will look for them ASAP. Everyone asks me "whats the secret on keeping it looking like it just rolled off the lot?" Shhhhhhhh. The secret is: WORK YOUR [non-permissible content removed] OFF CLEANING AND WAXING IT!!!!!!

Here's my wife's X3 after 12 years and 188,000 miles- it can be done:

It looks great...except that the X3 was the worst rated BMW ever. I am sure I would be pleased to drive it with a 6 cylinder, but a bad BMW is still a great car in comparison with most!!!!! Seriously though, car magazines hated it unanimously. It was their first crossover and I think it got slammed just for not being as much the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Well, the 320 never has been either, but I still remember how it felt to drive mine, and it was a 79 that the owner would give me (free) if I could dig it out of the monster snow pile the county dumped on it in 24 hours. After about 4 hours....people got the word that I would be getting the "eyesore" for free if I could dig it out. his was 20 years ago...blizzard of 96. Well I got it out, he sold it to me for $1.00 on the title, which I never gave him. A quick jump start later, and I drove it home. My girl followed me in my Z24 (87) with digidash and very rare 5 speed manual. Other than outright speed, the beater BMW was hands down more fun to drive than any car I have ever owned. It was the rear drive and the 50/50 weight balance. Brilliant.

[Deleted User]

brian125 said:

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

Oh, (chuckling) I do a full Mothers gold on it every major season change We have Summer, post summer where it is 72 to 82 degrees but no humidity and a nice breeze.That is the time for a clay job and a full on wax...not a quick wax...which is half water. BTW, the car had not been washed or even quick waxed in the pics. It was 6PM and ready to thunderstorm. Al pics were shot with crapo cell phone camera. Then all of a sudden December 22nd it is Winter, Plenty of time for layer after layer of beautifying and protecting good quality wax before then.
This time of the year in Virginia we get stuck under a Bermuda High, I frequent(Samsung Galaxy J5-2016) and actually use Turtle Wax- Quick-Wax, which really shines it up and makes it slippery again. I always do it at dusk or even at night because it is 97 to 102+ here in the day time. When you wake up at 5:30 AM and it is 82 degrees already....I am NOT wiping myself out on a full wax, Waxing in direct sunlight can cause the wax to set before you get to it. Most of us dudes found that out 30 years ago. having to compound a fender and then re-wax it and hope to god the clear coat stayed on our 87 Camaro with a head snapping 215 HP 302. Friggin government and lazy [non-permissible content removed] GM. I was lucky...the 87 had Multiport F/I. The 86 had TBI -(Toilet Bowl injection)

I don't know if the warranty is transferrable but I have 3 daughters that are gonna need a car, or at least borrow a car on a regular basis. I keep the title in my name and insure them under my name so the Kia extended service plan will stay in my name. I have actually got my eyes on the new Mustang, because I am 45 and I don't wanna wait till 65, and my license will have zero points on December 1st. On December 27th, as is the tradition in my family, I am going to buy a leftover 2016 Mustang GT premium with the track package. I decided that if I am to have a Mustang, I want as many performance and comfort items I can get, and usually the leftovers are all the high end cars they have trouble moving. I will start the hunt in the fall, My car will continue to be parked here and cared for, My first daughter to graduate on the A Honor roll gets the use of the car on a more permanent basis.The other two will get cars from my mother in law from the dealership she has worked for 35 years and does payroll for the entire franchise. I like to have a plan. Now, if my mother in law finds all three of them wholesale cars, I will sell my car and buy the Mustang with a lot of cash down, or I can always get a check from my home equity line of credit. A lot to think about....but I am HARD on my cars driving-wise, and I can tell you 100% that the Optima is built NOT TO FAIL. It is not as refined as a Honda,,,,but they use them as police cars in Korea.and not the Turbos. Regular 2.4 models do 90% of the duty. Only highway patrol Optimas are Turbos. (DC area is full of South Koreans I have a couple of Korean friends).

andres3 said:

What I mean is it is so common a failure that it is a known major issue. Sounds like Recall material to me, or at least a "step up to the plate" opportunity for the manufacturer to stand behind their product.

I don't know dude. I got a letter, so I took it in ASAP. The thinking is the faster you respond to a potential fuel related failure the better, and it did fail, so, the computer shuts down the Direct Injection and you are then stuck with the low pressure fuel injector that gets you those spectacular F/E ratings. It was HARD to drive slowly. Top speed? 63 with the time I had. (Had to take the Highway for a bit it was 3 miles to get from 45 to 63 and for me: painful. Around town? Fine. However, when I got it back with a fresh, accurate pump, I swear it was, and still is...a LOT quicker. It now FEELS like 200 HP. Also, is smoother, and

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Andres

@Edmunds has the 4cyl. Regal @9.8 sec O-60. Pretty pathetic. The turbo motor which is faster @252 h/p but suffers low end torque for its class. 0-60 7.2 sec.

252 HP and 7.2 0-60 seems like an under performer.

Does it weigh 5 tons? Does it get 30 MPG?

I'm in the camp that doesn't quite get Macan S's or SQ5's. If you want a fast car, why get a big heavy SUV that is top heavy and can't turn very quickly. I suppose if you are forced to own one car, and only one car, and you have a family to haul around......

I'd rather go the 2-car method from now on; one for fun, and one for daily duties and hauling. I have the fun car, now I need to find something cheap but nice.

AWESOME!!!! Exactly!!!! But then you still have to live FOREVER with "oh we could have gone to Aruba this year but my husband had to "blow" his Mustang engine (she has no idea what this means). "Isn't blowing an engine bad honey"? The correct answer

brian125 said:

cski

Best 900 dollars you will ever spend. Is the warranty transferable?

I thought you said the finish looks new Clay it down and get 3 or 4 coats of the P21's wax on it

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/p21s-concours-carnauba-wax-review/

Mr_Shiftright said:

7.2 isn't so bad. It's maybe one second off the mark of some expensive German cars.

Yeah but that one second kills the fun off the line. My car does 60 in 7.4 to 7.9 depending on who you believe. I believe both. It hates hot weather just like its owner. A/C is ultra cold though and rear occupants have own vents, center pull down console with cupholders, and I ran a charge line under the seats and the floormats for phone/7" Samsung Galaxy Pad3 recharging.

roadburner said:

cski said:

Oh, I will take some new pics and you can see for yourself the 5 year old vs the pics I took the day I brought it home. I will look for them ASAP. Everyone asks me "whats the secret on keeping it looking like it just rolled off the lot?" Shhhhhhhh. The secret is: WORK YOUR [non-permissible content removed] OFF CLEANING AND WAXING IT!!!!!!

Here's my wife's X3 after 12 years and 188,000 miles- it can be done:

It looks great...except that the X3 was the worst rated BMW ever. I am sure I would be pleased to drive it with a 6 cylinder, but a bad BMW is still a great car in comparison with most!!!!! Seriously though, car magazines hated it unanimously. It was their first crossover and I think it got slammed just for not being as much the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Well, the 320 never has been either, but I still remember how it felt to drive mine, and it was a 79 that the owner would give me (free) if I could dig it out of the monster snow pile the county dumped on it in 24 hours. After about 4 hours....people got the word that I would be getting the "eyesore" for free if I could dig it out. his was 20 years ago...blizzard of 96. Well I got it out, he sold it to me for $1.00 on the title, which I never gave him. A quick jump start later, and I drove it home. My girl followed me in my Z24 (87) with digidash and very rare 5 speed manual. Other than outright speed, the beater BMW was hands down more fun to drive than any car I have ever own