Midsize Sedans 2.0

nyccarguy

The best news in the category is the MAZDA 6 finally being available with a turbo. AWD too would be wishful thinking.

I see TONS of new Camrys on the road. Maybe only a handful of Accords. So far I have only seen an Accord Touring in White that I liked. It doesn't look right in black or electric blue.

stickguy

I was behind a Camry SE yesterday. White. Actually mistook it for a Lexus LF (I think, the newer coupe). But looked good. Side is nice. Front, a matter of taste.

IMO, they are all great options. Just all have particular strong points, or personalities. So try them all, and get what you like. Really can’t go wrong.

[Deleted User]

Michaell said:

cski said:

He had been recklessly speeding back and forth on the beltway trying to make folks speed...but always ended up on my tail. Have you considered that he found it fun? I honestly don't know what was in his mind other than being ALL over the road. In the dark. In the rain, and with roads drenched. Did you remember poking fun at my brake upgrade as overkill???? My ABS never even came on.

Did you get a plate number?

Perhaps you can follow up your letter with a visit to the local barracks and speak to a supervisor. The letter (or email) is likely to get round filed.

No. Too dark and I had to make sure I did not hurt someone. Also HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Speak to a supervisor that probably trained that individual. They probably give a $20 answer your question about visiting the Barracks.....Even approaching District 7 off Braddock Road in Fairafax, VA (4977 Alliance Drive, Fairfax, VA 22030) fills you with dread. It is set up like a 3ft thick concrete bunker with 4 cameras aimed more and more at you. I visited them before to deliver Divorce papers. I was cussed at and at that time 1(994ish

Michaell said:

cski said:

He had been recklessly speeding back and forth on the beltway trying to make folks speed...but always ended up on my tail. Have you considered that he found it fun? I honestly don't know what was in his mind other than being ALL over the road. In the dark. In the rain, and with roads drenched. Did you remember poking fun at my brake upgrade as overkill???? My ABS never even came on.

Did you get a plate number?

Perhaps you can follow up your letter with a visit to the local barracks and speak to a supervisor. The letter (or email) is likely to get round filed.

Michaell said:

cski said:

He had been recklessly speeding back and forth on the beltway trying to make folks speed...but always ended up on my tail. Have you considered that he found it fun? I honestly don't know what was in his mind other than being ALL over the road. In the dark. In the rain, and with roads drenched. Did you remember poking fun at my brake upgrade as overkill???? My ABS never even came on.

Did you get a plate number?

Perhaps you can follow up your letter with a visit to the local barracks and speak to a supervisor. The letter (or email) is likely to get round filed.

I am sorry but why don't you look up: District 7 State police
4977 Alliance Drive
Fairfax, VA 22030

It is a fortress, with only a screen and a keypad at the actual barracks. The buildings with windows are for regular office employees. The Barracks are further down 'Alliance' Drive, and the supervisor on my last visit never even answered through the microphone. They are not going to do squat but stick together.. Better off with Youtube.

Michaell said:

cski said:

He had been recklessly speeding back and forth on the beltway trying to make folks speed...but always ended up on my tail. Have you considered that he found it fun? I honestly don't know what was in his mind other than being ALL over the road. In the dark. In the rain, and with roads drenched. Did you remember poking fun at my brake upgrade as overkill???? My ABS never even came on.

Did you get a plate number?

Perhaps you can follow up your letter with a visit to the local barracks and speak to a supervisor. The letter (or email) is likely to get round filed.

[Deleted User]

Right. Round filed indeed. (tossed in the trash)

[Deleted User]

Does anyone think the older Optimas were more attractive? Now they're just like every other 4 door sedan-IMO.
It really bum's me out that Hyundai Kia is now making the Sonata more "fierce" looking, while the Optima is now relegated to "Enterprise, may I help you?" I would say LOL, but I liked that my car was different looking-with an aggressive nose and Jaguar-esque good looks.

Now, I can't tell if it is a Malibu or a Mazda.from the back. That is not a good thing.

What do you guys think?

andres3

cski said:

Does anyone think the older Optimas were more attractive? Now they're just like every other 4 door sedan-IMO.
It really bum's me out that Hyundai Kia is now making the Sonata more "fierce" looking, while the Optima is now relegated to "Enterprise, may I help you?" I would say LOL, but I liked that my car was different looking-with an aggressive nose and Jaguar-esque good looks.

Now, I can't tell if it is a Malibu or a Mazda.from the back. That is not a good thing.

What do you guys think?

Agreed; it has gotten very plain Jane (the Optima).

That's my criticism of the Stinger, it looks too much like an Optima, and it weighs nearly as much as an Infinity.

andres3

I like what Mazda is doing, they just need better drive-trains! Hopefully, the turbo does the job, but a DCT would be nice too (and AWD).

[Deleted User]

andres3 said:

cski said:

He had been recklessly speeding back and forth on the beltway trying to make folks speed...but always ended up on my tail. Have you considered that he found it fun? I honestly don't know what was in his mind other than being ALL over the road. In the dark. In the rain, and with roads drenched. Did you remember poking fun at my brake upgrade as overkill???? My ABS never even came on.

I would think your ABS should come on with a brake upgrade. It should be no problem to max out the braking ability of your tire's traction, thereby activating ABS (especially if it was wet and rainy).

I've found my brake upgrade to be quite fun as I do have superior braking power now, and it is super consistent, time after time, with good pedal feel. The only limitation now (even during repeated hard braking) is not fade, but tire traction.

I dont think I maxed tem out.....I didnt want to skid into anyone. Not really sure why ABS did not come on. Maybe it did. I was a little busy at the helm at the time...copy?

[Deleted User]

cski said:

andres3 said:

cski said:

He had been recklessly speeding back and forth on the beltway trying to make folks speed...but always ended up on my tail. Have you considered that he found it fun? I honestly don't know what was in his mind other than being ALL over the road. In the dark. In the rain, and with roads drenched. Did you remember poking fun at my brake upgrade as overkill???? My ABS never even came on.

I would think your ABS should come on with a brake upgrade. It should be no problem to max out the braking ability of your tire's traction, thereby activating ABS (especially if it was wet and rainy).

I've found my brake upgrade to be quite fun as I do have superior braking power now, and it is super consistent, time after time, with good pedal feel. The only limitation now (even during repeated hard braking) is not fade, but tire traction.

I dont think I maxed them out.....I didnt want to skid into anyone. Not really sure if ABS on. Maybe it did. I was a little busy at the helm at the time...copy?

[Deleted User]

andres3 said:

roadburner said:

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

the point is that people drive differently. A good example is how many cars shift into top gear ASAP, and avoid downshifting at all costs. That can work on the EPA treadmill, but in real life, people need to actually move on occasion so bury the pedal to make it downshift.

Of course. I think the EPA tests should be done with E-10 instead of pure gasoline and should accelerate more rapidly to better match real world conditions. But there will always be a lot of variation no matter what you do.

I would prefer to see a range with the current EPA test being the top of the range. Then do another test with E-10, lots of idling and fast acceleration to provide a "worst case" scenario for the bottom of the range.

Of course no matter what you do someone will complain.

Something else I notice that affects fuel economy is coasting or lack thereof. On vehicles with deceleration fuel shut off you have to get your foot completely off the accelerator. Just keeping a little pressure on it even as you're slowing down for a red light, etc. prevents it from kicking in. Drives me crazy when my wife sees traffic stopped 1/4 mile ahead and stays on the gas until she has to hit the brakes. I take my foot off immediately and coast.

On some automatic BMWs and Porsches you can set a driving mode which essentially puts the transmission in neutral when you take your foot off the accelerator. BMW calls it "Eco Pro" while Porsche refers to it as "Sailing Mode." Whatever you call it, you can coast a long way...

@abacomike, Over at C&C used to rave about the Eco Pro mode on his 7.  It must be effective.  

The only time I find it to be an issue is in stop and go traffic in hot weather: Eco Pro cuts back the a/c to the point the interior gets a bit too warm. Aside from that it works fine.

That was my Mother's complaint on the Prius. The AC just wouldn't work well in CA Summer heat with Eco mode on.

How are the water levels and heat out there affecting folks: And their car choices??

[Deleted User]

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

I'm surprised you did not get pulled over and written up for various reckless driving infractions. If not worse.

Ahhh.... if they pass you, and you don't pass them, it's tough for them to ticket you. They'd have to really have it in for you to go through the trouble.

I remember exiting a freeway quickly once in order to make sure I didn't waste time for a discussion with the CHP one time. I don't know if he had me in his rear-view sights, but I didn't want to wait around to find out. It's a lesson I learned when I was younger and previously pulled-over.

Lesson learned:

Given the chance to avoid a pull-over, do so!

About 25 years ago I passed CHP's at the beginning of the Occoquan river Bridge, and I was speeding in the much lamented '87 Chevy Z24 5 spd 2.8 liter V6 MPI at the Ft Belvoir exit from Prince William into Fairfax county.

I got very, very, lucky. They lit up their bikes and proceeded into a wall off truck traffic. I hauled [non-permissible content removed] at the exit and disappeared down warm country back roads. Now most are all "parkways".

BTW- all dual Harley Cops are CHP's, even on the east coast. Funny how the show has so much staying power.

[Deleted User]

stickguy said:

I was behind a Camry SE yesterday. White. Actually mistook it for a Lexus LF (I think, the newer coupe). But looked good. Side is nice. Front, a matter of taste.

IMO, they are all great options. Just all have particular strong points, or personalities. So try them all, and get what you like. Really can’t go wrong.

Yes, the front, in cheap black plastic SE trim........sucks.

[Deleted User]

What about all the people in the ad with what looks like static electricity in their hair as a result of the radioisotope engine core allowing the 4 cyl version to throw owners into another dimension. Or at least feel SOMETHING in a Camry inline 4 model. I am not sure if there was an "S" model, or just a relatively convincing sticker.

In the V6 model, with 306 HP, I bow to Mr. Toyoda.

[Deleted User]

cski said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

I'm surprised you did not get pulled over and written up for various reckless driving infractions. If not worse.

Ahhh.... if they pass you, and you don't pass them, it's tough for them to ticket you. They'd have to really have it in for you to go through the trouble.

I remember exiting a freeway quickly once in order to make sure I didn't waste time for a discussion with the CHP one time. I don't know if he had me in his rear-view sights, but I didn't want to wait around to find out. It's a lesson I learned when I was younger and previously pulled-over.

Lesson learned:

Given the chance to avoid a pull-over, do so!

About 25 years ago I passed CHP's at the beginning of the Occoquan river Bridge, and I was speeding in the much lamented '87 Chevy Z24 5 spd 2.8 liter V6 MPI at the Ft Belvoir exit from Prince William into Fairfax county.

I got very, very, lucky. They lit up their bikes and proceeded into a wall off truck traffic. I Hauled-Tail at the exit and disappeared down warm country back roads. Now most are all "parkways". BTW- tortured that car, and the A/C never broke.

BTW- all dual Harley Cops are CHP's, even on the east coast. Funny how the show has so much staying power.

[Deleted User]

I saw the 'Touring' model ad for the Honda Accord. Man that is a big car for "midsize". If I could swing it, the Sport Accord is all me. To me, my beloved Optima, which had exciting styling and all kinds of content is , in it's 2018 form, is about as exciting as a bread box. No kidding.

stickguy

I have said for a while that by my standards, the latest iterations of the Sonata, Accord, etc. were really full sized cars. My Elantra and Jetta are what I consider mid-sized ones.

Michaell

cski said:

I saw the 'Touring' model ad for the Honda Accord. Man that is a big car for "midsize". If I could swing it, the Sport Accord is all me. To me, my beloved Optima, which had exciting styling and all kinds of content is , in it's 2018 form, is about as exciting as a bread box. No kidding.

I test drove a 1.5T Accord Sport a few months back. Nice car, fun to drive, but lacking in amenities - no sat radio, no heated seats.

sda

I am just now seeing new '18 Accords in the wild. When Honda introduce the new CR-V I saw them almost immediately running around town. Guess the underscores how the buying market has changed.

stickguy

I think I saw one the other day on the road. One problem I have is they look enough like a civic that from a distance or a quick glance, might not even realize it was the Accord.

Michael, before I got the Sonata, I was shopping for Accords too and drove a Sport. Liked it, but it was really short on goodies. The new one seems to be carrying on the trend. At least the 1.5t version. the 2.0t seems to be pretty loaded.

stickguy

it will be interesting to see the next sales reports though. December will still have 2017s though mixed in. My local dealers still list some, last I checked.

andres3

stickguy said:

I have said for a while that by my standards, the latest iterations of the Sonata, Accord, etc. were really full sized cars. My Elantra and Jetta are what I consider mid-sized ones.

Wait, did you get the Elantra Sedan or Hatch? I might be confused. I've heard the sedan is significantly bigger than the hatch, and remember I thought the hatch very compact.

stickguy

Wanted the hatch but got sedan. Quite a bit cheaper. The sedan is about 179” long, and hatch about 170”.

andres3

stickguy said:

Wanted the hatch but got sedan. Quite a bit cheaper. The sedan is about 179” long, and hatch about 170”.

9" is indeed significant. I tend to like compact but roomy hatches, but in my sedans mid-size is preferred to compact.

Mr_Shiftright

Car and Driver Rates Family Sedans.

What do you think of this list?

ab348

We all knew C&D had to rate the Accord #1 because of its silly 10-Best permanence, and the Mazda 6 always gets chosen by the auto journos even though nobody buys them. So the Malibu seems the best choice according to them after those two, surprisingly. Also shocked that the Subie brings up the rear, can't imagine that finding will be well-received.

explorerx4

It's hard to say, I've driven 2017 versions of the Camry, Fusion and Sonata. The reviews are for 2018's.
Based on electronics, was very frustrated by Camry and Sonata compared to my Fusion.
Could have been due to familiarity.
Camry is supposedly a better 'driver' now, but how much better than 2017? It was bad, plus shift was terrible.

stickguy

interesting. did not really give reasoning, or even relative scores. But, yes the Malibu being that high was interesting.

Explorer, I found the electronics on my Sonata to be a strong point. Full featured, and very simple to use. but to each his own.

From this list, the only car I actually would not consider is the Altima. The rest all have enough positives that I would consider them, and could make them work.

suydam

A neighbor has a new ‘bu. Very attractive sedan.

nyccarguy

Like it has been said before, there is something for everyone. You really cannot make a bad selection.  

I've seen exactly (1) 2018 Accord that I like (a white Touring).  The interior is nice, but the styling still doesn't "wow" me.

I'm very interested to see the reviews on the Mazda 6 Turbo when it comes out (as well as the price).  

The Malibu might be the value play of the bunch if you can find one with the 2.0 Turbo & a very large discount from sticker.

 I rented a 2017 Camry (old body) and liked it.  I'd be curious to see how the new one drives (especially with Toyota's corporate V6).

The Legacy is a great car.  The base 2.5L 4 is underpowered and doesn't get the mileage it should bring how slow the car is.  I'd recommend at least the H6.  Maybe they'll toss the Turbo 4 from the Ascent into this sucker one day.

As long as you stay away from a base Fusion, you might get a lot of car for the money as well.

stickguy

I bet the 6 will drive great. And be expensive.

[Deleted User]

Oh BTW, I think the stinger IS an Optima in every way except weight. That was done because of structural and drivetrain reinforcement.... together creating a more refined feel. It really really smacks of "we need a midsize in the Optima, not a GT car". Now the stinger is born. Oh, BTW, a lot of guys on the Optima site back when I bought my car and posted daily, the 2.0 put out 274 with the help of a good turbo...that was max Output for that engine, but kids would "chip it" blow the engine, then remove the go fast parts and programs and call Kia about a "blown engine at normal cruising speeds". They openly laughed about it and I thought it was wrong. Very very wrong to alter the car then stick Kia with the bill after they're dialed up 400 hp on an engine and transaxle not designed for it. BTW, they use Optima's as police cars in Korea, so they know damn well when they are being screwed. As a result, the Optima Turbo has 245 HP and all fun was removed. Thus the Stinger is here.I like the red one, because it gives me that same feeling as when I first saw mine. The styling is spot on for my taste. I wish it had a 3.8 turbo.

andres3

cski said:

Oh BTW, I think the stinger IS an Optima in every way except weight. That was done because of structural and drivetrain reinforcement.... together creating a more refined feel. It really really smacks of "we need a midsize in the Optima, not a GT car". Now the stinger is born. Oh, BTW, a lot of guys on the Optima site back when I bought my car and posted daily, the 2.0 put out 274 with the help of a good turbo...that was max Output for that engine, but kids would "chip it" blow the engine, then remove the go fast parts and programs and call Kia about a "blown engine at normal cruising speeds". They openly laughed about it and I thought it was wrong. Very very wrong to alter the car then stick Kia with the bill after they're dialed up 400 hp on an engine and transaxle not designed for it. BTW, they use Optima's as police cars in Korea, so they know damn well when they are being screwed. As a result, the Optima Turbo has 245 HP and all fun was removed. Thus the Stinger is here.I like the red one, because it gives me that same feeling as when I first saw mine. The styling is spot on for my taste. I wish it had a 3.8 turbo.

Guess those tuners assumed all engines were like the Toyota Supra engine which was highly tunable and still "Camry" reliable.

stickguy

stinger has nothing to do with the Optima. Entirely different, RWD chassis. And it's a 5 door. Might have a familial relationship though. And the GT has serious HP increase.

ab348

All of the larger Kias from the Optima through the Cadenza, Stinger and K900 all have a similar look. They would be well-served to make them a bit more different from each other in styling.

stickguy

following the lead of the Euro brands. MB, BMW. 1 sausage, 3 lengths.

fushigi

Genesis is the existing RWD platform in the family so if I had to guess I'd say it's using some version of that.

stickguy

I believe the new platform version underpinning the soon to be released G70. Which I really like.

imidazol97

Wiki says the Kia Stinger is related to the Hyundai G70, G80, as well as the K9 (Cadenza in the US).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Stinger

andres3

imidazol97 said:

Wiki says the Kia Stinger is related to the Hyundai G70, G80, as well as the K9 (Cadenza in the US).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Stinger

I wouldn't be surprised if they share much in common. My rear-view mirror in the Optima looks like it maybe came out of their large SUV parts bin; way over-sized for my rear window.

The one in the Audi appears to be engineered and sized down to +/- 1 mm of the rear window shape and size.

backy

I can't believe the Altima was rated above the Legacy. The Altima has nothing going for it IMO except for very good fuel economy with the 4 cylinder. And the exterior is OK. It makes a good rental car, but I'd never buy one.

I noticed the lower-ranked cars tended to be the oldest designs, with the Mazda6 an exception (although it was tweaked for 2018). No surprise there. When the next Legacy debuts on the new Global Platform it should move up in the rankings.

nyccarguy

backy said:

I can't believe the Altima was rated above the Legacy. The Altima has nothing going for it IMO except for very good fuel economy with the 4 cylinder. And the exterior is OK. It makes a good rental car, but I'd never buy one.

I noticed the lower-ranked cars tended to be the oldest designs, with the Mazda6 an exception (although it was tweaked for 2018). No surprise there. When the next Legacy debuts on the new Global Platform it should move up in the rankings.

And grows a set of...

andres3

backy said:

I can't believe the Altima was rated above the Legacy. The Altima has nothing going for it IMO except for very good fuel economy with the 4 cylinder. And the exterior is OK. It makes a good rental car, but I'd never buy one.

I noticed the lower-ranked cars tended to be the oldest designs, with the Mazda6 an exception (although it was tweaked for 2018). No surprise there. When the next Legacy debuts on the new Global Platform it should move up in the rankings.

For me the 2.5 CVT combo Subaru is using is a dog. I really liked the 3.6 though. Reminds me of the old 2.5 VW used for a long time, was also a dog. The new Audi 2.5 with 400 HP is great.

I wasn't a fan of the Altima as a rental either. Felt underpowered, which forced me to floor it a lot, which meant I wasn't anywhere near the EPA numbers for gas mileage.

stickguy

Subaru would have a winner if they would put the latest hi-tech turbo motor in the Legacy/outback too. Most likely would just replace the V6. Fine by me. I am now a major small turbo 4 fan.

[Deleted User]

explorerx4 said:

Speaking of the Passat, who is buying these things?
I live about 5 miles from a VW dealer and I've only seen 3 or 4 of the current model.

Here here to that. I cant tell what year they are unless it is stamped in big numbers on the trunk.I think massive inenties and rental car contracts keep the base models selling. It looks like a brick on wheels.

[Deleted User]

akirby said:

Well nobody is holding a gun to the rental car companies and forcing them to purchase rental cars with complicated controls. They can always buy the cheaper models which is usually what they do anyway.

OTOH if you are a MyFordTouch owner you will appreciate having a familiar interface with the automation.

Can't please everyone. I always take time to figure out all the necessary controls before I pull out of the space.

I dont NEED to wait before I pull out of the space. It is self explanatory how to operate the car. As it should be.

[Deleted User]

stickguy said:

stinger has nothing to do with the Optima. Entirely different, RWD chassis. And it's a 5 door. Might have a familial relationship though. And the GT has serious HP increase.

Oh, yeah...I realize that the the car is RWD and the frame was assembled from familiar castings but really had nothing to do with my car....it just made me FEEL like I did when I bought my car. It looked fast, the intuitive controls made it look fast inside too. Let me just paste in a comment from page 852:

"I have to say that the Optima has one of the most intuitive and high quality dash layouts as compared to many other modern designs. I feel it is comparable to the Mazda 6, especially the intuitive "hop in and go" layout.

I have dual-zone climate controls, a step up from the base Mazda 6's classic 3 knob design, and I have never once needed the manual to operate it. The is a knob for the driver, and another for the passenger. Just press "Auto" and turn the knob to desired temp. The same goes for the radio. Even with Bluetooth, Satellite, 2 different Aux inputs, USB, I pod, and a phone menu, I have never needed to consult the manual.

Car and Driver has confirmed my thoughts on this. In a 5 car comparo, even against the Sonata SE, they said "We prefer our Sonata in Optima clothing" they meant inside and out. As a result, the Optima beat the Sonata in that comparo.

My car was deigned by Peter Schreyer, who was a senior designer for Audi. It is no mistake that the car can be easily mistaken for an entry level luxury sport sedan. Just another reason that sealed the deal when I said "I'll take it"."

I think for my area, this is how a sedan...especially a faster one that is a "5 door" BTW..has ANYONE entered a car with the 5th door? NO. It is a trunk with more gaskets to worry about. The stinger looks like the car I wanted. However, 6 years later...I am STILL happy with my car, it's design, and it does top out at 130mph..just like the Stinger, except with the 19" wheel model.

-Chris

[Deleted User]

andres3 said:

backy said:

I can't believe the Altima was rated above the Legacy. The Altima has nothing going for it IMO except for very good fuel economy with the 4 cylinder. And the exterior is OK. It makes a good rental car, but I'd never buy one.

I noticed the lower-ranked cars tended to be the oldest designs, with the Mazda6 an exception (although it was tweaked for 2018). No surprise there. When the next Legacy debuts on the new Global Platform it should move up in the rankings.

For me the 2.5 CVT combo Subaru is using is a dog. I really liked the 3.6 though. Reminds me of the old 2.5 VW used for a long time, was also a dog. The new Audi 2.5 with 400 HP is great.

I wasn't a fan of the Altima as a rental either. Felt underpowered, which forced me to floor it a lot, which meant I wasn't anywhere near the EPA numbers for gas mileage.

There are V6 Altima's, not to say I would buy the V6 either. The Altima nameplate goes back to the early 1990's and replaced the Stanza. I understand why Nissan hangs on to the nameplate, but it has become a by-word for mid pack sedan. It is not a bad car, but when I drove one the CVT was unacceptable.

fushigi

There's definitely a feel to get used to with a CVT. Interestingly, Nissan/Infiniti's CVT in my QX60 simulates gearing under spirited throttle. It'll rev up then act like it's changing gears - go up to 4500+ RPM then it 'upshifts' & revs drop by 1200 or so. Kind of like a first-second-third where 1 & 2 are traditional but 3 is CVT.

Under mild acceleration it doesn't do that; it'll just rev to get the power going & stay there. I can literally accelerate to around 75MPH without cracking 2K RPMs. Though that's not my normal style; I usually exit an on-ramp at 70+. I've had it for a year & have yet to try eco mode.

akirby

Looks like Ford will be killing Fusion at least temporarily in order to roll out new trucks and utilities on 2 new platform architectures along with hybridized everything including F150 and Mustang. That leaves only Mustang and Focus. If the mid sized market doesn’t keep shrinking I think we’ll see a new Fusion on a stretched Focus platform similar to Civic and Accord down the road. Or they could do a high performance RWD sedan based on the new CD6 architecture. Unclear whether this also includes Lincoln cars. I would have lost a lot of money betting on this one as I didn’t think they’d walk away from 200K units. The profit margins must not be very high.

berri

Fusion is a nice car, but I think it needs some updating. Perhaps Ford reads the market as too crowded and declining demand meaning insufficient ROI. I mean Ford is now competing with brand new Accord and Camry models in a shrinking market. Sometimes it is a better business decision to walk away and put the investment dollars elsewhere. I doubt cars like Focus or Fusion lead to lots of buyers moving up to an F-150, the market segments are too disparate.

An interesting topic may be what Ford does with the Explorer. It has been around for awhile and a lot of those vehicles now go into fleets. Not so much rental cars as government and corporate fleets.