United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree we have pretty well screwed up the whole planet with our globalization effort. I am more of a Buchanan Conservative. I think it is too late to turn the tide. All tariffs and trade embargoes will do is stir up further resentment against the USA. And Obama likes being the sweetheart of the WORLD. It took FDR nearly two terms to realize his protectionism was not working. If protectionism was so great for labor during the 1930s, why did the UAW need to have its bloodiest battles during the FDR administration? Sounds more like he just stirred up partisanship more than unity. I think we are seeing a replay of 1932.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that history repeats itself, don't they? ;)

    Send the poor servicepeople serving in the Middle East down south for further beeswax? That idea would fly like a Zeppelin made of Led. :P

    Wasn't that the downfall of GWB? Too much war and Trade Tower downing distrust? History is repeating here.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    EFCA, is just around the corner!!!

    You may think it is good for the working man. It will not make any difference in the right to work states. The other states will be hard pressed to entice any new manufacturing. What company in their right mind would start a business where they know they will be screwed over by a Union? As long as the UAW has the belief that bringing the company to their knees is good for business they will continue to lose market share.

    You seem to think that WalMart will become Union with EFCA. Just how do you think you will get a million people to sign cards. I don't think that law will allow Unions to work on a store by store basis. If by some fluke of Nature you did manage to get Walmart Unionized, you will have the AARP down on you for losing all those store greeter jobs. I can tell you Walmart will do away with a lot of jobs if faced with Union employees. The Americans with Disabilities will protest the Unions. And if you think they do not wield a big stick, just look at all the handicap parking spaces EVERYWHERE in America.

    EFCA may be one of the dumbest ideas the Dems have ever come up with. Though it would be hard to really pinpoint with such a plethora of dumb laws and mandates.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The smart UAW workers took the package, and spent the money on training for a good job. I doubt we see any more golden parachutes for the worker bees.

    I would bet that by March 1, the completion date of the report out to the government, we will see massive buyouts of both hourly and salary. They will probably not as large as last year.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....The Americans with Disabilities will protest the Unions. And if you think they do not wield a big stick, just look at all the handicap parking spaces EVERYWHERE in America."

    Yeah, and 3/4 of those spaces are empty.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Will they be buying them out of the pension? The Health Care or both?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    EFCA, will over rule any right to work for less laws. You will see a return of unionization in this country before it's over. You can only kick people down for so long before they revolt. You have old school republicans saying we need to make things here and with EFCA, their will be enough smart people in the south (even in Texas) needing 50% who vote in a union for better working conditions, healthcare, pay, retirement. If we slap a tariff on the hoods of all imported cars and other goods then this country can be saved. All those plants i.e. Delphi, will have to come back to the U.S. ;) We need a domestic content law passed immediantly and hopefully this fillibuster proof congress and moderate republicans will pass such legistlation. I have no doubt your hero Duncan Hunter Jr. if he's anything like his father will vote for such a law. We both know Ron Paul, waves the 'buy american" flag also!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I wave the Buy American Flag as much as any UAW worker. You still have to make the best product for the money to get into my wallet. I think there are only 3 GM vehicles in the top 10 highest content list. Toyota has 3 as well. So How will that help the UAW?

    Unless we somewhere along the line tossed out states rights. Those 49% that do not sign Union cards do not have to pay Union dues. They do get all the Union wages and benefits. Just do not have to go on strike with the rest. Kind of a win win for the right to work people.

    Slapping tariffs onto products from countries that do not do likewise will never fly. You can mark my words on your calendar. Barry Obama wants to be liked by all the World. He is not going to jeopardize that for a small handful of UAW workers he made promises to during the heat of the election. In fact to get the CAFE to where he promised he will probably do away with the Chicken tax on PU trucks. That will cause the demise of the last real product the Domestics dominate.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    According to United Van Lines' 2008 Migration Study (raw data here), there were nine states with high outbound shipments (MI, ND, NJ, PA, RI, IL, IN, ME, and NY) in 2008, and seven states with high inbound shipments (NV, NC, AL, WY, SD, SC and OR). What do these two groups of states have in common?

    At first glance (and I admit this is not based on a statistical test or a scientific study), we can see that 8 out of 9 states (all except ND) with high outbound shipments are Forced-Unionism states, and 6 out of 7 states (all except OR) with high inbound shipments are Right to Work states .

    Assuming that household migration is largely based on Americans moving from states with declining or poor job opportunities to states with better job opportunities, one could argue that the states with the best employment opportunities are currently in RTW states.


    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043

    In fact to get the CAFE to where he promised he will probably do away with the Chicken tax on PU trucks. That will cause the demise of the last real product the Domestics dominate.


    I do not understand. Are you saying that dropping the truck tariff will cause the imports to shut their truck plants here and build them overseas? I do not see that happening.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    you said ==> "They (Unions) do not want anyone producing more than the least capable employee."

    This reminds me of somone I know who worked briefly for a "union shop" as a mechanical designer. He as tasked with making some mechanical device....

    Using his skills, he pulled out the blueprints and proceded to build the item in the mech.-shop... it took him about an hour. (It was some kind of brass pivot-gear or some such thing.)

    He told me that all the other mechanics in the shop were REALLY pissid at him because the "going rate" for building that perticular device was set at 4 hours.

    HOWEVER: Now that he had built one in only 1 hour, now EVERYONE in the shop will be expected to do the same task in 1 hour because he had shown it could be done.

    BOTTOM LINE: He quickly learned that if the blueprints say it takes X-hours to build somthing... DURNIT - it will take hime X-hours to build it. (reguardless if he could be more efficent or not)

    JUST ANOTHER CASE OF UNION RULES STIFILING PRODUCTIVITY!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    All the small trucks built overseas will be brought in. Not everyone that needs a truck wants a behemoth. I am hoping for all the small diesel PUs that are built in Thailand will make it here. The D3 abandoned all those that wanted a small PU Truck.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    You will see a return of unionization in this country before it's over.

    The number of workers belonging to a union rose by 428,000

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

    Here's the thing -- if American workers and their unions can grow when the most anti-worker administration in over 75 years is doing everything it can to thwart them, just wait till the political climate becomes more worker-friendly. After a quarter-century on the back foot, American unions have finally learned to survive, and maybe even thrive, in a harsh environment. Like Ginger Rogers, they're doing it backwards and in heels. Just imagine what can happen when working people get to take the lead.

    The most significant change over the last year is the increase in private sector union membership. The private sector is where Change to Win affiliates have focused their efforts and where employer opposition is the most intense. Last year, union membership in the private sector rose by 133,000, contributing nearly as much to the overall growth in union membership as growth in the public sector.

    http://www.changetowin.org/connect/2008/01/2007_saw_union_membership_increase.ht- ml
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My story is about government waste. A friend went to work as a grader operator in Hawaii. He went out with the boss first day on the job. He told the boss it would take 1 maybe two days to finish. The boss informed him it would take 30 days. This is what the County of Hawaii had allocated and that is what they would do. It was all time and materials.

    Fast forward to our new nationalized auto industry. You have the wasted manpower in the government married to the wasted manpower of the UAW. I see a $100k Malibu coming to a showroom near you. Of course some here like Rocky think we need to tack whatever tariff on the imports as it takes for the domestics to be viable.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    tacking on new world order tariffs on imports like my Mitsubishi Lancer? Is he all for it? Someone edumacate us.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We know that GM plans to build the Volt batteries in Taiwan the engine in China. That means they will only have about 25% US content. Then rocky wants a big tariff added for non US content. By the time the Rocky and Barry show get done with the GM Volt it will be in the $50k+ range. That ought to sell real well. If the little Think EV sells in the UK for $31k imagine what it will be with the R&B tariff on top. So Barry will have to decide if the environment or the UAW survives. Can't have both. Right now Canada is threatening to invade the USA for Barry's proposed American Steel plan. Canada was wise to strengthen their ties to China. They can sell them the oil we used to buy. Wonder if he will insist on American Oil only. Better Drill Barry Drill... :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I wave the Buy American Flag as much as any UAW worker. You still have to make the best product for the money to get into my wallet.

    I will say you do better than most and I do respect you for that!!!

    I think there are only 3 GM vehicles in the top 10 highest content list. Toyota has 3 as well. So How will that help the UAW?

    GM, still has the highest domestic content of any manufacturer overall. GM's #1 Ford #2 Chrysler #3 and how that helps the UAW, is because it will give them more opportunity to organize the supplier plants. EFCA, being passed will make that organizing that much easier.

    Unless we somewhere along the line tossed out states rights. Those 49% that do not sign Union cards do not have to pay Union dues. They do get all the Union wages and benefits. Just do not have to go on strike with the rest. Kind of a win win for the right to work people.

    If I had it my way I would supercede those states rights with a federal law that says any company where it's employees vote 50% to go union all employees that fall under the bargaining contract has to belong to the union and pay dues or they have the option to quit or be terminated if they don't want to belong to the union. Also your right to work employees "scabs" also have the right to accept whatever consequences of punishment from the 50+% who stuck togeather. Ask the scabs how life has been for them at Pantex, and that is at a place where 95% of the people are right-wingers!!! ;) If we went along with the way it is likely going to be once EFCA, is passed their should be some apendixes that state that the non-union employees should have to negotiate their own contract with their employer and the law where the union is required to represent the non-union employee should be abolished.

    I will say after speaking to my management after the strike that they had a great deal of respect for the people who stuck togeather than the scabs that they used and they new they couldn't be counted on.

    Slapping tariffs onto products from countries that do not do likewise will never fly. You can mark my words on your calendar. Barry Obama wants to be liked by all the World. He is not going to jeopardize that for a small handful of UAW workers he made promises to during the heat of the election.

    I personally think Barry Obama, will shake things up and suprise you. I think he cares more about his legacy as being the first non-white president of the U.S. than what the rest of the world thinks about him and like Clinton, he wants to leave the office with the country in way better shape than when he assumed the reigns of power thus those in the rest of the world might not like the fact that Barry, might end the one way street they have enjoyed for far to long. ;)

    In fact to get the CAFE to where he promised he will probably do away with the Chicken tax on PU trucks. That will cause the demise of the last real product the Domestics dominate.

    If you truely believe that the "chicken tax" is going away in this economy you are seriously dreaming. The CAFE he promised can be met with a investment in R&D. For gosh sakes their is a lot of promising technology out there. I guarantee you 62' can verify that regarding GM's plans but assume he can't elaborate on the big plans.

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Look at those RTW states now!!! Name me one with a booming economy??? Some might have jobs but their disposable income due to cuts in benefits and more out of pocket costs well has these families cash strapped. If you seriously believe that data proves anything well you will have to do a better job convincing me. Also those RTW, states have what kind of a industrial base???? Remember the midwest is hurting because we are competing with the Chinese. If you are a farmer in Smallville Kansas, well you don't have near the competition as industrial plant in Holland, MI thus your view of the world might be a little warped which is the part of the problem. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Thank-god, just maybe there is hope for this country after all dallasdude1. Maybe people are finally getting smarter and realizing that the master plans of the pseudo-capitalist, global elites, aren't going to make their lives better???? ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Of course some here like Rocky think we need to tack whatever tariff on the imports as it takes for the domestics to be viable.

    Give me one damn good reason why we shouldn't tariff a imported Toyota??? I assumed you agreed with me on the subject of currency manipulation, right??? Do you feel it is okay for the Japanese, to manipulate the yen by about 40%???? This fact allows your beloved imported Toyota, to make the Toyota HQ in Japan, and extra $4-13K depending on the rpice of the vehicle. If you honestly feel this is okay you need to stop shopping at Costco, and pretending to wave the american flag and head straight to Walley World, and get your latest chinese made product. :sick:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I have no problem with you buying it gagrice, just as long as you pay a 100% tariff on it!!! Last I knew GM, was going to make a baby Duramax engine for the 1/2 ton Silverado, or did that plan get the axe???? I also read about 6 months back that the CTS, was getting a diesel engine..... something like a 2.8 V6 or has that plan been canceled also???

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    We know that GM plans to build the Volt batteries in Taiwan the engine in China.

    Got any proof or is this more rhetoric????

    That means they will only have about 25% US content. Then rocky wants a big tariff added for non US content. By the time the Rocky and Barry show get done with the GM Volt it will be in the $50k+ range.

    Wrong!!! If the Rocky & Barry show got it's way that vehicle would be 100% american made thus that is why we need a tariff and/or content law passed immediantly and if it was made here in the U.S. it would cost somewhere between $35-40K, but I and Barry, promise to give you a huge tax break for buying a green vehicle that doesn't fund or support terrorist in the middle east. ;)
    If my financial situation were to improve I'd probably buy a Chevrolet Volt, as my next car. :)

    That ought to sell real well. If the little Think EV sells in the UK for $31k imagine what it will be with the R&B tariff on top.

    I guess they will either deal with the tariff or it will make them build a plant here to produce it and they better under the R&B plan buy american made parts to build that "Think EV" ......See this protectionist democrat is already creating jobs!!!! ;) See how that works gagrice???? The world needs our market alot more than we need them!!!! ;)

    So Barry will have to decide if the environment or the UAW survives. Can't have both.

    Both will thrive after 8 years of Barry, then we will have to work on getting Hillary, elected to keep the ball rolling and then Chelsea!!!! :blush: :P .....Despite all the obstacles I've faced the last couple of years I can tell you that I'm pretty happy about my side having power once again. Barry, is going to make me proud and doesn't believe that some of these obstacles are impossible to over come :shades:

    Right now Canada is threatening to invade the USA for Barry's proposed American Steel plan.

    Don't worry Jennifer Granholm and Fintail, are working out a peace plan as we speak!!! ;)

    Canada was wise to strengthen their ties to China. They can sell them the oil we used to buy. Wonder if he will insist on American Oil only. Better Drill Barry Drill...

    He probably will put Palin, in charge of that since she's the energy expert!!! :blush: :P

    -Rocky
  • yankabillyyankabilly Member Posts: 43
    Because all those jobs were in GOVT.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Because all those jobs were in GOVT

    Last year, union membership in the private sector rose by 133,000
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM, still has the highest domestic content of any manufacturer overall. GM's #1 Ford #2 Chrysler #3

    Having the most vehicles with the highest percentage of US content, is not the same as selling the most vehicles with the highest US content. I will give you the edge on vehicles in the top ten. Though all have dropped in US content. Ford F150 is tops with 80%.
    75% or more US content

    If I had it my way I would supercede those states rights with a federal law that says any company where it's employees vote 50% to go union all employees that fall under the bargaining contract has to belong to the union and pay dues or they have the option to quit or be terminated

    That is the very reason RTW laws were enacted in 22 states. To protect the individual worker from unfair Union treatment. Notice the lowest unemployment is in RTW states. Wyoming and the Dakotas are all at 3.9% or less as of December 2008. You might think about relocating to a state that is still free.

    I think he cares more about his legacy

    On that we are in 100% agreement. Did you see him feeding the crowds in Germany from his hand. You think he is going to throw that away by putting a tariff on German cars. If so you are in a dream world. Think one world government with king barry.

    If you truely believe that the "chicken tax" is going away in this economy you are seriously dreaming.

    I'm not holding my breath. I am with Edmund's on the subject:
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2006/02/should-the-us-keep-the-chicken-tax- .html

    Look at those RTW states now!!! Name me one with a booming economy??

    How about North Dakota. 3.5% unemployment ain't bad. My partner from the Liberal state of Minnesota has been building over there the last 3 years. His state is almost as dead as Yours.

    Give me one damn good reason why we shouldn't tariff a imported Toyota???

    How about 3 good reasons. GM, Ford & Chrysler. Without companies such as Toyota, the D3 would have continued building crap cars. No economy cars and we would be victims of the legacy Ponzi scheme between the UAW and the automakers. That and we have a mutual agreement of free trade. Of course GM would be subject to the same tariff with their smallest cars.

    Last I knew GM, was going to make a baby Duramax engine for the 1/2 ton Silverado

    GM is long on talk, short on delivery. I don't consider a 4.5L diesel small. Why bother it will still be lucky to average 20 MPG. They need a smaller truck with a 2.0 L diesel that gets 45 MPG. Everyone in the world can buy them except here in Chicken Tax USA.

    Wrong!!! If the Rocky & Barry show got it's way that vehicle would be 100% american made

    There has not been a vehicle that was 100% US content since VW built the Rabbit diesel PU in PA. That was 25 years ago. Your Silverado has gone down to 75% from a high of 95% a few years ago. I am sure most of the electronics come from China, in all the Domestics.

    See this protectionist democrat is already creating jobs!!!!

    Better read up on the great depression. You will see the truth on protectionism. It extended the Depression by at least 6 years. This must be deja vu all over again :shades:
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    How the National Right to Work Spreads Misinformation

    National Right to Work often relies on deceptive and heavy-handed propaganda to discredit unions. For example, NILLR, the group’s research arm, claims to have recorded over 9,000 incidents of union violence in an electronic database to convey its persistent message that union officials are violent thugs. But this data is full of holes and has been repeatedly discredited. NILLR even confesses that it “cannot guarantee the accuracy of the file itself.” A 1986 report uncovered numerous inaccuracies in NILLR’s research, revealing, for instance, how a judge ruled that a union official cited by NILLR for committing a violent act, was actually framed by the employer. Yet NILLR refused to retract its claims.

    Georgetown University law professor Michael Gottesman challenged the validity of the NILLR report on union violence, writing, “This paper employs overheated rhetoric and anecdotal narratives, usually without any source attribution, to claim that union-initiated violence is a national ‘crisis’….” Julius Getman, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law, testified before the Senate that the NILLR report is “filled with misleading and erroneous statements... situations in which unions are the victims are included among the overall count of labor violence.”

    These inaccuracies didn’t stop the Center for Union Facts from promoting the flawed information as part of its extensive public relations campaign to smear the image of unions.

    http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/the-anti-union-network/national-right-to-wor- k/agenda.html

    North Dakota — Population: 633,837
    Minnesota — Population: 5,167,101
    Wyoming — Population: 493,782; 50th

    You will see the truth on protectionism.

    House of Representatives late on Wednesday included a ban on most purchases of foreign steel and iron used in infrastructure projects.

    The Senate's version of the legislation, which will be debated early next week, goes even further, requiring that any projects related to the stimulus use only American-made equipment and goods.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4389597/U- S-EU-trade-war-looms-as-Barack-Obama-bill-urges-Buy-American.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Last year, union membership in the private sector rose by 133,000

    I hate to deflate your balloon. If you look at the statistics. The manufacturing sector actually lost Union membership for both Durable and Non-Durable goods. Not everyone in the UAW is happy as we posted several weeks ago. One Michigan company is trying to decertify the UAW. The major gains in the private sector are in Health care and services.

    The average Union wage went up $86 per month. Non-Union wages went up $125 per month and my SS went up $129 per month. Durable goods mfg UNION workers only went up $39 per month. If you are a utility worker in a Union you would get $455 per month more. So tell US again how the UAW is doing the middle class a favor?

    It is all here.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is all right there. How the Unions would like to push their form of Socialism on EVERYONE. I think if EFCA passes you will see other states join the 22 RTW states. The only thing Draconian is trying to force anyone to join any organization against their will. Why should someone that is a hard worker and is rewarded for his hard work be subject to a Union that takes that option of excelling away from him or her? Not everyone wants to be a UAW drone.

    We shall see how far the buy American steel clause goes. I would look for it to be pulled or Barry to veto. While I have no problem with the concept. It may be too late to implement that kind of protectionism.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    How the Unions would like to push their form of Socialism on EVERYONE.

    The banking/finiancial industry beat unions to it.

    We shall see how far the buy American steel clause goes.

    That is the fourth offer Shell has proposed during the lengthy talks, which cover 30,000 workers nationwide.

    Feb. 1--The United Steelworkers Union said Saturday night that enough progress was made toward a new labor agreement to extend its existing contract day by day, allowing workers to stay on the job past this morning's deadline.

    The extension is called a "rolling 24-hour," which means the old contract stays in force as both sides negotiate or until the union terminates the agreement.

    http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/2998978
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I assumed you agreed with me on the subject of currency manipulation, right??? Do you feel it is okay for the Japanese, to manipulate the yen by about 40%????

    If, as you think, the Japanese are trying to manipulate the value of the yen, then they are doing a terrible job of it. Earlier this week, the yen hit a 13-year high against the dollar. In other words, the yen is extremely strong right now, which makes Japanese-made products more expensive for U.S. buyers.

    The whole idea of currency manipulation is to make your currency weaker - not stronger - than the currency of the country to which you want to sell your products. That makes your stuff cheaper & more attractive to the customers in the other country. If there's a Japanese government official in charge of yen manipulation, he should be fired for screwing this up so badly.

    You could argue that China is manipulating its currency to keep the value of the yuan below what it would be if it were allowed to float, but it's pretty clear that no one's holding down the value of the Japanese yen.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    House of Representatives late on Wednesday included a ban on most purchases of foreign steel and iron used in infrastructure projects.

    The Senate's version of the legislation, which will be debated early next week, goes even further, requiring that any projects related to the stimulus use only American-made equipment and goods.


    Boy, that's depressing. That means higher costs, which will eventually be passed on to us taxpayers, thereby cutting into our purchasing power.

    Apparently, the new regime isn't too friendly to the classical liberal belief that those who earn money are in the best position to decide how it should be spent.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Again your deflection is noted. Just how does a strike against a US steel producer benefit our sagging economy? I can tell you that if the infrastructure work is held up by US Steel workers that will not set well with those that finally get a job rebuilding a bridge. Further eroding the American public's view of UNIONS. The UAW is already the bad guys. Add the United Steelworkers to the S___list.

    Didn't Shell post a $2.8 Billion loss in the last quarter? These Unions really know how to keep their jobs. Strike when the company is bleeding red ink. I say let em strike and shut down the US steel industry. See how that works with Obama's plans for buy American Steel. Obama needs to have a meeting with all the major Union leaders and let them know they are not doing themselves any favors with trying to destroy his plan to revitalize the economy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Apparently, the new regime isn't too friendly to the classical liberal belief that those who earn money are in the best position to decide how it should be spent.

    So far he and his Congress have not shown much fore thought. They are dragging the middle class down even further with each printing of money for bailouts. All that does is dilute the value of the dollars in circulation. It is part of a grand plan to put US all into a welfare state. The only reason companies started buying steel from abroad was quality. At least that was the case with drill pipe used in the Oil industry. Japanese pipe was more expensive. It did not have the high failure rate of US made drill pipe.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    The manufacturing sector actually lost Union membership for both Durable and Non-Durable goods

    Remember it was a ship off to China mentality. That has changed.

    In 2008, union members accounted for 12.4 percent of employed wage and salary workers, up from 12.1 percent a year earlier, the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number of workers belonging to a union rose by 428,000 to 16.1 million. In 1983, the first year for which comparable union data are available, the union membership rate was 20.1 percent, and there were 17.7 million union workers.

    The average Union wage went up $86 per month. Non-Union wages went up $125 per month and my SS went up $129 per month. Durable goods mfg UNION workers only went up $39 per month.

    In 2008, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $886 while those who were not represented by unions had median weekly earnings of $691.

    So tell US again how the UAW is doing the middle class a favor?

    $200 a week is about $10,000 a year to union workers and thats not including health care benefits, more vacation, better sick pay, and many other perks, up to and including those non union folks get, just because unions exist. Remember, unions are the folks who brought you weekends!!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Remember, unions are the folks who brought you weekends!!!

    Oh, really. I worked 21 days straight before getting any days off for the last 25 years of my employment. Communications workers have worked weekends and holidays forever. The Feds are the ones that set the premium for any time worked past 40 hours. Not the Unions.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Are you saying that UAW workers were never required to work Saturday or Sunday?
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    You could argue that China is manipulating its currency to keep the value of the yuan below what it would be if it were allowed to float, but it's pretty clear that no one's holding down the value of the Japanese yen.

    Only an idiot would be holding Dollars these days, interest rates at the bottom and no worry about the dollar and its purchasing power in the future are but another time bomb. Monetary policy is but a one way street from this point on. Further empirical evidence that China is in fact manipulating the currency is their concern in bring their goods to our market (the number one consumer nation) and their ownership of our public debt. One can say that, adjusted for inflation, your paying to keep your money at the bank these days. This will certainly encourage savings? This a no brainer and you can certainly assert that China is manipulating the currency and receive no argument whatsoever. It would be silly, not to see that China can and most likely will buy GM and Ford at the fire sale, if there is to be one.

    As far as Japan goes, they have to deal with their own time bombs. Their aging population and China/India. Its isn't too far fetched to see, that aging populations health care, will be factored into every auto sold in the near future.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Are you saying that UAW workers were never required to work Saturday or Sunday?

    Only if they pay the time and a half or double time. Then its by choice/greed.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Many workers—men, women and children—put in 10 to 16 hour days, seven days a week. And you remember this part from history class: Labor organizers called on the government to mandate shorter hours. Workers lost lives in the struggle. At Haymarket Square in Chicago, police gunned down protesters and men were hanged for inflammatory speeches.

    The men were demanding, as they put it, time for "what we will."

    "The right to have time with our families. To pursue education," says historian Michael Feldberg. And to go to the zoo, the museum, the church. Actually, getting Sunday off for worship was relatively easy. Feldberg says, it was Saturday that was the tough part. "If the Jewish Sabbath had been on Wednesday, we would not have a weekend. We would have Wednesday and Sunday off."


    So, who invented the weekend? It was brought to you by the Labor Movement, but also Management. Jews. And Gentiles. And you may as well throw in God, since he came up with the whole "day of rest thing" in the first place.

    http://weekendamerica.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/11/24/a_weekend_history_l- esson/
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    An extensive new study concludes that the Chinese steel industry has benefited from massive government subsidies, many of which violate China's World Trade Organization obligations, says the American Iron and Steel Institute. The report, entitled Money for Metal: A Detailed Examination of Chinese Government Subsidies to its Steel Industry, documents more than $50 billion in subsidies granted to Chinese steel producers by the Chinese government. These subsidies have fueled the unprecedented expansion of China's steel industry and the sharp increase in China's steel exports, at the expense of its ...

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-170456285.html

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/19/business/steel.php

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1N1-11BDC96E413CC1D8.html

    The Chinese government also significantly subsidizes its steel industry, the AISI says, “in the form of favorable tax treatment, export credit support, (research and development) support, and direct funding of new projects.”

    China’s is not the only government, though, which intervenes in its national steel industry, the AISI says. Much of the current global overcapacity is attributable “to government support and other types of aid,” which in turn prompt “excess production and market-distorting international competition.”


    http://chestertontribune.com/Business/steel_industry_said_vital_to_nat.htm
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Are you saying that UAW workers were never required to work Saturday or Sunday?

    Only if they pay the time and a half or double time. Then its by choice/greed.


    Maybe at the UAW, but that certainly isn't the case with unions across the board. Many UFCW employees are certainly required to work weekends with no B pay unless over 40 hours, some do offer a small hourly increase for Sundays. If weekends were optional, you wouldn't be able to buy groceries on the weekend. Same goes with the steel mills, the BOF is operating regardless of the day or holiday. They just can't shut it down, so weekends are required for many of the employees.

    I know some crane operators at US Steel that were on mandatory 12 hour shifts six days a week last year. Last summer a buddy of mine went 3 months straight of 12 hour days w/o a day off. Now that steel has slowed down like everything else, they're now talking about layoffs.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    My post was a reply to Rocky's assertion that Japan has been manipulating its currency. He didn't mention China at all & I brought it up in passing, but my post was really about Japan. Beyond that, we really shouldn't have much to say about China in a forum that's about the United Auto Workers because the Chinese - unlike the Japanese - don't sell cars here.

    If you want to discuss China, you should take it to the off-topic forum.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,698
    >you will have the AARP down on you for losing all those store greeter jobs

    But if they can figure out a way to get a cut of the salaries for AARP it will be okay... There was an
    article in our paper recently about AARP overcharging for insurance because they get kickbacks from the companies they recommend to the retirees.
    Gee, I'm not very smart and I had figured out AARP was getting a good cut from those favored companies that were supposedly giving older folk a "good deal."

    Maybe the UAW will organize the greeters.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,698
    But we sell cars in China, well sort of--we have to partner with a Chinese company IIRC. They won't let us sell directly ala Honda and Toyota in US.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    Not to mention the Chinese are salivating over the idea of selling their so-far deficient vehicles in the US. Of course, according to the "free marketeers"/globalists, the western world should have to compete without barriers with the Chinese serfdom injustice economy. There's a direct impact to UAW topics from Chinese actions.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    This is a good example of the race to the bottom. Glad you mentioned China. How are the transplants going to deal with this? In the end we will all see that the UAW is the last best chance for some kind of civil standard of living.

    China Seeking Auto Industry, Piece by Piece

    "Chairman Mao taught us: if you can win then fight the war, if you cannot win, then run away," he said. "I want to train my army in these smaller markets, and when we are ready, we will move on to bigger markets."

    "Why the spurt? Small cars powered by gas-sipping engines that start at $4,000,"

    The $9,700 price tag includes leather seats, dual air bags, a huge trunk and a DVD system with a video screen facing the front passenger — a combination that could cost twice as much in a comparably equipped midsize sedan in the United States.

    Wages of less than $100 a month have helped control the cost.


    "Americans work 5 days a week, we in China work 7 days," he said. "Americans work 8 hours a day, and we work 16 hours."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/17/business/17auto.html
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Having the most vehicles with the highest percentage of US content, is not the same as selling the most vehicles with the highest US content. I will give you the edge on vehicles in the top ten. Though all have dropped in US content. Ford F150 is tops with 80%.

    75% or more US content


    My point was you acted like the D3 aren't the leaders. Just because Toyota, has a model here and their doesn't make them american as apple pie. Remember gagrice, your beloved Honyota, still imports over 50% of it's cars. :sick:

    That is the very reason RTW laws were enacted in 22 states. To protect the individual worker from unfair Union treatment. Notice the lowest unemployment is in RTW states. Wyoming and the Dakotas are all at 3.9% or less as of December 2008. You might think about relocating to a state that is still free.

    Go to work where??? Go work for a right-wing republican state that pays it's correction officers peanuts???? Texas Corrections Officer's that work for the state only took home $1200 a month because I saw some of their paychecks as I was friends with a few of them. Wyoming, has been advertising $30K a year and their benefits package and retirement is a joke. I guess I could heard sheep, right and get my latest copy of Ludwig Von Mises, to read while I tend them, right???

    On that we are in 100% agreement. Did you see him feeding the crowds in Germany from his hand. You think he is going to throw that away by putting a tariff on German cars. If so you are in a dream world. Think one world government with king barry.


    King Barry's castle is here on U.S. soil and not in Germany. If he was so globalistic you would of never saw him require building materials for construction projects be made here.

    I'm not holding my breath. I am with Edmund's on the subject:
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2006/02/should-the-us-keep-the-chicken-tax- - .html


    So what you are saying is you want to expand the one-way street free-trade???
    If Duncan Hunter Sr. heard you say that he'd slap those words back in your mouth!!!! :sick:

    How about North Dakota. 3.5% unemployment ain't bad. My partner from the Liberal state of Minnesota has been building over there the last 3 years. His state is almost as dead as Yours.

    Who lives in North Dakota??? Who would want too???? Who would want to live in Wyoming??? or South Dakota??? Remember 3.5% unemployment doesn't paint the whole picture. Is their any good paying jobs left??? I just got a message the other day from Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad, that the conductors position that I applied for was canceled. :cry: :sick:

    How about 3 good reasons. GM, Ford & Chrysler. Without companies such as Toyota, the D3 would have continued building crap cars. No economy cars and we would be victims of the legacy Ponzi scheme between the UAW and the automakers. That and we have a mutual agreement of free trade. Of course GM would be subject to the same tariff with their smallest cars.

    Ask Lemko, about how well made those Japanese models were made in the 1980's. A couple winters in the midwest or North East, and those shiney paint jobs would bubble and the following winter the sheet metal would turn to dust!!! Am I exaggerating lemko??? If those are the HQ cars you speak about well you once again must be taking your daily dose of dream pills again!!! :P

    GM is long on talk, short on delivery. I don't consider a 4.5L diesel small. Why bother it will still be lucky to average 20 MPG. They need a smaller truck with a 2.0 L diesel that gets 45 MPG. Everyone in the world can buy them except here in Chicken Tax USA.

    What the heck are you going to do with it anyways??? VW, is building you plenty of diesels. Get you a 2006 Liberty w/ a diesel. The 4.5L Duramax I bet gets high 20's highway. Maybe they'll slap the 2.8 V6 diesel in the Colorado/Canyon??? Why hasn't your beloved Toyota, made you one yet??? Obvioulsly such a vehicle would be a niche product for a couple of unique americans. ;)

    There has not been a vehicle that was 100% US content since VW built the Rabbit diesel PU in PA. That was 25 years ago. Your Silverado has gone down to 75% from a high of 95% a few years ago. I am sure most of the electronics come from China, in all the Domestics.

    Last time I checked the Silverado was 80 something percent american content. I can have my "best friend" check for me on Monday what the 2009's are at???

    Better read up on the great depression. You will see the truth on protectionism. It extended the Depression by at least 6 years. This must be deja vu all over again

    Obama, is going to write us a modern "New Deal" and no I don't agree with the idiots that say the great depression was extended 6 years. :confuse: I swear all these so called experts come out of the wood work during times of crisis!!!

    -Rocky
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    only two US transplant factories make cars with 75% US content? And they are The ones that make large vehicles. Vehicles that couldn't sell well in Japan. Who in Japan would commute to work in a 4WD ext cab Tundra?
    Why arent the high volume transplant vehicles on the list? A million camry's civics and accords and corrolas sold here and none have 75% domestic content? And remember, that content includes shipping, transplanted suppliers, dealers cut. Actual car hardware is probably less than 50%. The Silverado is >75% domestic and I was told here it is mexican?
    Since the transplants are our saviors, why ????
    Is the US economy headed where it is?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well I was basing my data from around 2006. I don't pay much attention to that area of our economy and remember the value of our dollar has fallen drastically over the last couple of years. The yuan, is indeed severely undervalued!!!!

    -Rocky
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Of course, according to the "free marketeers"/globalists, the western world should have to compete without barriers with the Chinese serfdom injustice economy.

    OK, I'll bite. What kind of barriers do you have in mind?
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