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CA and Oregon. My dad became anti Union after many years as a Union Carpenter. One of the work rules in CA he detested was the job gets shut down when you can count 12 drops of rain on one foot of board. He Transferred to work as a Union Carpenter with Kapp homes as a Foreman. He got so fed up with workers coming late and not having their tools that he was going to quit. Kapp made him a superintendent and moved him from Washington state to Gaylord Michigan. He just went around inspecting jobs and did not have to deal with the whiners in the Carpenter's Union. My dad was born in Midland and his 4 brothers retired from Dow Chemical or the Railroad in Midland. He saw the good and the bad in the Union. Something you have not been able to comprehend at your tender age. You should try being a shop steward sometime with 1000 telephone operators to keep happy. I have and it was a lousy job.
I guess if you call a single wide trailer, dish network, toothless, barefoot and preganant, the good life and having the world by the [non-permissible content removed] well you can have it!!!
The problem is that the UAW workers were not happy with a fair slice of the pie. They ate the pie plate as well. Now GM has nothing to bake a pie in. So the UAW is begging people making less money to support their two home, 3 car, 4 snow machines, 6 jet skis and a boat lifestyle.
They didn't work for the telephone company and weren't teamsters thus your glorified image isn't reality despite what the papers want you to believe.
No, I was upset at the UAW dragging the D3 in the toilet since 1998. I was upset when my friend lost his job as a Ford mechanic. The only thing that will be felt here will be the dealers that do not weather the storm. The housing slump is 10 times bigger in scope than the domestic auto industry. They are less than half the sales and falling faster than a Michael Jordan layup.
Well the dealerships around here are falling faster than Dennis Rodman trying to block one of Karl "The Mailman" Malone's "lazy boy" dunks!!!!
The tooling that is worth salvaging will be sold to pay debts. The buildings will be there and those that run the machines will be looking for a job. It may not pay what they used to get. That's life. If they are good at what the do they may just get more in a FREE workplace. If there are more good workers than jobs. They will get what the market will bare. I did not invite 30 million illegals in to take the jobs. It was your party that welcome them in. And your one UAW ally, DD1 is thankful they will be made citizens. Then you will know what REAL competition for jobs looks like. Not of my doing.
Don't give me the hawg wash story of it being just my party who invited them in!!!! The democrats wanted them for votes and the republicans wanted them for cheap labor. That is the bottom line and one republican senator says the estimates are closer to 40 million illegal aliens than 30 million. You know how I feel about illegal aliens and what I would do to them all!!!! I disagree with Obama, on this issue. If ya'll would of selected Duncan Hunter, I would of voted for him but your party gave us McSame....Trust me Obama, was the lesser of the 2 evils and i'm willing to give him one full term before I decide to like or hate him. However I will admit I wasn't happy with the stimulus bill except for the "buy american" provision that stayed while your globalist republicans whined.
I was talking to my neighbor that is my age and still doing yard work to survive. He used to hire Mexican labor to help him. It was too much of a hassle getting ones with a green card. So now he only does what he can handle himself. He told me the going rate for any Mexican day labor is $100 plus a hot meal. Of course that is cash. And they only work 8 hours including lunch time. So they seem to be organized without the aid of a corrupt UAW union to take their money. That is over $13 per hour. They hang out every morning by the Home Depot entrance.
What kills me is you republicans are all about the free market and what the going rate is until it effects your personal wallet then ya'll shoot straight for the illegal minority. Why couldn't your neighbor hire an american citizen to do the work??? i'm sick n' tired of the green card B.S. !!!! :mad:
-Rocky
I think $20 an/hr. to make Hershey Kisses is acceptable. I personally like Hershey's products and buy them often. It's not the fault of the workers that Hershey's became uncompetitive but of course i don't think I've had Belgian Chocolate though. I like Dark Dove Chocolate. Yummy!!!
When someone will drive a forklift for $35k per year why should Delphi pay $87k per year?
Well it's like why should his supervisor make $106K a year??? Well because we are dealing with cars and one is entitled to make more....Just remember that $87K a yr. number included quite a bit of overtime.
Do you think our management would pay us what we were making if they had a list of qualified applicants beating down the door?
I guess that depends on if your union had enough hair or not???
We would have been out in the cold carrying a picket sign or dropping our wage demands. Such a simple concept that UAW workers are unable to grasp.
I have a hard time believing they are having that hard of a time finding people to do your line of work for $140K a year with no college education. :confuse:
-Rocky
That reminds me of a guy from TN I worked with for 35 years. He bought his ex-wife and two kids each a home while working with me in the Arctic. Now he lives in a single wide on his 10 acres left to him by his folks. He loves it cuz he can pee out his back door without havin' snoopy neighbors. Out front sits a new Dodge Ram diesel truck every 3 years. With a REAL expensive bass boat. He takes several trips per year to both TX and Florida to fish with friends he made working in Alaska. For him life is good. That is what counts.
Stop trying to tell me what the facts of the 2000 SPEEA strike against Boeing were, too. I read each contract offer from Boeing and the one SPEEA voted down, the 1st offer, offered more than the 2nd offer that was accepted.
It's just that the RAH-RAH of the unionists had everyone thinking strike come hell or high water. Sheesh, what we were making before the contract even finished up was fine with me. That's the trouble with unions, what the collective soul says goes. Even if it's stupid collective RAH-RAH reasoning.
In the UAW's case, those people were and still are greedy, still refusing to see the wisdom of conceding bene's and salary to try and make things work with the automakers. It has come around to bite them in their collective butts.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Well I was like a assistant to the our union steward and yes I was involved in a lot of labor relation issues and got myself in some hot water with management.
Well it is the responsibility of the union stewards to police their own and if they can't resolve the poor practices of a certain member then it needs to be taken up the chain of command within the union because one person can give a poor image perception of everyone involved with the union.
-Rocky
Which Belgian chocolate maker are you talking about? Nestle'? That stuff tastes like wax.
It is more like $115k per year. And 10 years experience could be considered the same as a doctorate in Telephony. The cost of training some one is too high to hire people without experience. Especially when many will not last in seclusion for half the year. When you miss half your kids soccer or baseball games the money becomes less attractive to many people.
PS
The only jobs paying $140k plus are NON UNION with either BP or Conoco. And you would not last a week with their work rules. Remember you get caught with a bottle of wine in your room and you are on the next plane south. No second chances with any kind of drugs or alcohol. They do random drug tests which catch those that may like to smoke a little pot that is legal in Alaska. Instant termination. If you can handle the politics and the rules you make good money and get a very good pension. Then you should know that working around oil fields in TX.
I guess that depends on if your union had enough hair or not???
Our Union leaders were far smarter than what you have in the UAW. I told you once we were offered more by the company than the Teamster's would accept for us. They knew they could never get that much out of AT&T for the technicians and did not want the hassles it would cause in the other bargaining units. We still stayed a buck an hour over them year after year. Even though they had techs in our office in Prudhoe Bay.
I like Dark Dove Chocolate. Yummy!!!
Is it made in the USA? I only buy my wife See's candy made in the USA. $19.50 per pound. Makes her happy on Valentine's day
-Rocky
-Rocky
I assume you are joking? Trying to get someone around here to work hard is nearly impossible. The young white kids all think they are destined to be movie stars or website designers. The smart ones are going to college to get out of doing manual labor. My neighbor gave up most of his jobs because he could not compete paying Mexicans to work. Many of the landscape maintenance outfits are owned by illegals. They drive around in New CHEBY trucks and make more than you or I. Joe public does not ask for a green card when someone drives up in a brand new domestic truck and offers to do their yard work for less than the other guy.
Many of the illegals in the country are living the American dream. Many more are working in sweatshops in the major cities of America.
It is only a matter of time before they take the unskilled jobs in the auto industry. And they are not interested in the fact that it was once a UAW job. They are just wanting to get out of the poverty in their home country. Go in the kitchen of your local restaurants and see how many speak English.
With all the illegals in your hospital ya'll are turning a profit??? The Tax Payers are reimbursing you guys for all of the illegals using the free medical care???
Stop trying to tell me what the facts of the 2000 SPEEA strike against Boeing were, too. I read each contract offer from Boeing and the one SPEEA voted down, the 1st offer, offered more than the 2nd offer that was accepted.
I never brought that up iluv???? Please tell me where I brought up the 2000 SPEEA strike??? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
It's just that the RAH-RAH of the unionists had everyone thinking strike come hell or high water. Sheesh, what we were making before the contract even finished up was fine with me. That's the trouble with unions, what the collective soul says goes. Even if it's stupid collective RAH-RAH reasoning.
Well I think part of the problem is how the corporation has beenable to ask for bailout money despite them making money oversea's. GM, for instance is making billions ofprofits in China, right now yet that is a seperate account. They have taken billions and invested it in china, and have made a helluva of a return on their investment. Another thing iluv, is this healthcare issue between the Big 3 and the UAW, wouldn't be a issue if the Big 3 wouldn't of raided the pension and healthcare funds back in the 80's when GM, was making billions in profits. I know many on here don't have a clue about the past but these are the facts and are the reasons why they don't have the money to weather the storm of this recession. The UAW workers are the ones who are being screwed and the past executives should of been thrown in jail for illegally borrowing against those promised monies out of those collective funds!!!
In the UAW's case, those people were and still are greedy, still refusing to see the wisdom of conceding bene's and salary to try and make things work with the automakers. It has come around to bite them in their collective butts.
As I said your and others lack of knowledge on this subject matter is really showing up. Go look at the past contracts between the UAW and Big 3 during the good times and look at their profits and contract language and get back to me. The bottom line is the robber barons stole the money to invest in projects like Fiat and many other money losers and because their risk didn't work out well they want the bluecollar union workers to bite the bullet. I am also just as sad for the white collar workers who've had to bite off even more. It's utter ridiculous!!! There should be billions of dollars in these funds by now but like a credit card they only made the minimum payments and the grace period has came to an end. :mad: :sick:
If any of you want to be upset well go take a look at the profits being made in China, and get back to me to see if GM, really needs a bailout??? Like Delphi, they are keeping ther oversea's operations seperate from North America. On another note GM, is exploring buying back from Delphi, the Wyoming MI "valve lifter" plant and the Saginaw Chassis Systems Delphi Plant, according to dad!!!
-Rocky
Well if they were that desperate for people I suppose they could make the individual sign a contract that they will work for "x" amount of time or the employee will be responsible for the training costs kind of like some school districts do around the country. They call it some sort of "promise" program!!!
PS
The only jobs paying $140k plus are NON UNION with either BP or Conoco. And you would not last a week with their work rules. Remember you get caught with a bottle of wine in your room and you are on the next plane south. No second chances with any kind of drugs or alcohol. They do random drug tests which catch those that may like to smoke a little pot that is legal in Alaska. Instant termination. If you can handle the politics and the rules you make good money and get a very good pension. Then you should know that working around oil fields in TX.
I'd probably be better being a Teamster, and I do like to have an occassional drink and no I don't smoke pot thus that wouldn't be a problem. I could go 3 weeks without a drink quite easily. I'm not a alcoholic or anything but yes living in Alaska, in the middle of "no where" wouldn't be fun ut apparently one is compensated quite well.
Our Union leaders were far smarter than what you have in the UAW. I told you once we were offered more by the company than the Teamster's would accept for us. They knew they could never get that much out of AT&T for the technicians and did not want the hassles it would cause in the other bargaining units. We still stayed a buck an hour over them year after year. Even though they had techs in our office in Prudhoe Bay.
I've never heard of a union leaving real money on the table from an employer. I wouldn't classify that as smart move despite the problems it may of caused.
Is it made in the USA? I only buy my wife See's candy made in the USA. $19.50 per pound. Makes her happy on Valentine's day
I'm not sure but assume so because it's part of Mars Inc. If my history is correct I think Dove, was founded and made in Chicago!!!
-Rocky
P.S. I don't think I've ever had See's candy.
Well you better rush to your local Cadillac dealer and buy a CTS....I still have connections thus I can get you one
-Rocky
We are talking about the automobile industry, not stadiums for professional football teams. You completely skipped over the facts that the southern congressmen opposed to the bailout of the domestics did nothing to drive them to their present condition, and that all states - including Michigan - give taxpayer money to favored industries.
Regards,
OW
One thing I've noticed about people and greed, it goes across all social and economic boundaries. The Union people are just as greedy as the executives getting bonuses. It's just at a different playing level but the attitude and desire is the same.
I don't care what you say about Wal-Mart as long as you buy lots of stuff there. I'm a Wal-Mart shareholder & I want more dividend income so that I can buy a new BMW next year. So stop complaining, climb into one of your Cadillacs, drive to the nearest Wal-Mart & buy stuff. Your Cadillac has a big trunk, so don't hold back. Fill it up with Wal-Mart goodies.
The more you buy, the sooner I can get behind the wheel of a new BMW. So don't delay - shop at Wal-Mart today!
Not that they didn't deserve it, but are you talking about rebuilding them after we totally destroyed them with the H bomb? At least as a people they learned a lesson from that. perhaps more so than we did.
Well being from WV and recently having lost a tooth due to a fracture and even having owned a single wide trailer (for my kids) I can now feel the arrogance you spew.
There are some who do not consider having a $2000/mo mortgage and two BMW's in the garage stressed out about their job and money all the time as the good life.
Being content is more important than impressing people. Amazingly enough though some of us in the sticks actually make a decent living.
Japan, has national healthcare thus they are paying a percentage of each Toyota workers compensation. As far as what happens here in the U.S. well between the tax breaks and incentives their was something like half billion don't quote me on exact figure that went into building the Toyota, plant in San Antonio, TX and I'm still wondering how I as a legal resident of Texas, at the time benefited from that??? Here is a company making record profits and they want us tax payers to help build em' a plant or they will threaten to move it somewhere else!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
-Rocky
Everyone should be forced to shop at Wally World in the "libertarian" new world order we are racing towards. It'll be good for all, really. Maybe Chinese cars will eventually be sold there...they take impacts like pop cans, but so what? Von Mises will smile from hell with each unit sold.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Seriously??? Is it a seperate company, with a publicly traded stock OR is it an accounting thing, which would make sense. However if it is part of GM then it would have to show up in somewhere in their legal financial reporting. There is NO way GM can hide that from the IRS or stockholders. GM stock is crap right now so if they are making Billions it is currently being wasted trying to subsidize the US industry's bottom line
Boy you sure need a lesson in corporate 101!!!!
Delphi Corporation filed for bankruptcy protection ONLY on it's North American operations all the while making billions on it's oversea's operations where they pay slave labor wages....The laws are rigged for the multi-national corporations that the neo-con globalist have achieved. HQ it in North America and if things get bad file for BK or now days get a loan in NA and let the U.S. tax payers foot the bill while you and the board head to the spa resort for a long much needed vacation while your oversea's operations rake in the profits (your accounting thing) which is seperate from your NA ops!!!
-Rocky
How can you not see the benefit in that? Sure if they build the car overseas and sell it here we do indeed support their nationalism to a great extent. But at the point that theybuild the car in America using our people and pay local taxes then the amount that goes back to them in profit and is applied to workers in japan would be a pittance. Toyota is a publically traded stock. Americans can own part of that company.
For some reason people have the idea that greedy corporations keep all the profits. Profits go into building a strong organization. Their people get paid salaries and possibly bonuses, but the company is "owned" by the stockholders. If money is paid back to the county to help nationalization it has to be in the form of taxes, of which I would guess we make more then they do for cars made in America. When we talk about greedy corporate America we are talking about union members as well as management if they are in 401K plans with stock.
I would assume a socialist would be opposed to the idea of owning stocks being as that is a capitalist idea. I really don't know, is that true?
I still see this as better than GM and Ford making their cars in Mexico and Canada.
-Rocky
Delphi Corporation filed for bankruptcy protection ONLY on it's North American operations all the while making billions on it's oversea's operations where they pay slave labor wages....
I guess 34 years in corporate America has not left me with a conspiracy theory on everything. Being on the management side for all these years has kept me naive to the trampling down and the downtrodding of the American worker. Yes I know specific operations can be kept on seperate books and treated differently, BUT in the end when it comes to accountability the profits have to roll up to the mother company. If GM is making Billions, it has to show up in their tax forms. If they have an operation like the US that is not performing they vcan sell it, shut it down or reorganize. But the Billions are not hidden. If I am a stockholder in GM I get the advantage of that profit from China, unless it is indeed a different company with its own stock.
The April 2 release of a General Accounting Office report on corporate taxes could hardly have been better timed to get press attention. Just as millions of Americans were filling out their federal 2003 tax forms to beat the April 15 deadline, the GAO study indicated that most corporations owed no taxes from 1996 to 2000, a boom period for corporate profits.
Those untaxed corporations earned $3.5 trillion of revenues.
Any individual who paid taxes provides more money to run the government than these untaxed firms, says Barry Piatt, spokesman for Sen. Byron Dorgan (D) of North Dakota, who, with Sen. Carl Levin (D) of Michigan requested the study months ago. Next time Congress considers taxation, Senator Dorgan will be hammering at the legal "massive tax avoidance" by companies, promises Mr. Piatt.
For years, companies and their representatives, such as the National Association of Manufacturers, have complained that businesses are overtaxed. The latest studies of corporate taxation suggest that, in general, this is not true. "The usual arguments may be baloney," says Piatt.
The GAO study found that 71 percent of foreign-controlled corporations operating in the United States paid no taxes in those five years; nor did 61 percent of US-controlled companies.
The basic corporate tax rate stands officially at 35 percent. In reality, it's far below that for most companies. And the importance of corporate tax revenues for Uncle Sam has shrunk. That's shown by the numbers.
Corporate taxes have fallen from 5 percent of gross domestic product, the nation's output of goods and services, in 1946 to 1.4 percent now.
As a percentage of all federal tax revenues, corporate tax payments have declined from 23 percent in 1960 to 13 percent in 1980 and 8 percent today.
Using data from the financial statements of publicly traded companies, the average effective tax rate was 12 percent in 2002, down from 15 percent in 1999, and 18 percent in 1995, according to a study by John Graham, a finance professor at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business.
And Washington is not doing as much as it has in the past to see that companies pay their tax bills. In 2003, the Internal Revenue Service conducted face-to-face audits of only 29 percent of the largest firms - those with assets of more than $250 million. That compares with 34.7 percent in 1999, notes a report by Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, a government watchdog group. The IRS says it's stepping up tax shelter investigations, and adding 250 examiners to its corporate division this year.
In 2003, the effective corporate tax rate probably rose as losses carried over from the last recession ran out and profits soared, Mr. Graham suspects. Yet, he adds, "It is surprising that corporations get away with such a little amount of taxes on average."
Other factors reducing the corporate tax burden in recent years include more tax shelters, new tax breaks, and the transfer of profits by multinational companies to low-tax foreign nations, figures Martin Sullivan, an economist with Tax Notes, a prominent tax publication. Companies have also written off the cost of stock options from their tax liability, yet largely ignore their cost in their profit and loss statements. Proposed changes in accounting rules may stop this practice.
The issue of corporate taxes was also thrust into the presidential campaign by Democratic Sen. John Kerry's criticisms of President Bush for failing to crack down on corporate tax dodgers. As for Senator Kerry's proposal to trim corporate income taxes by 5 percent, Richard Du Boff, a professor emeritus of economics at Bryn Mawr College, outside Philadelphia, calls it a "bad idea." Kerry has mentioned offsetting any revenue loss by "eliminating tax loopholes that push jobs overseas."
con't.............
Mr. Du Boff remains unimpressed: "In every way, shape, and form," both Demo- crats and Republicans have been "doing their best to lower the corporate tax burden," he says.
Curiously, economists on both the right and left agree on the need to close corporate tax loopholes.
"A good idea," says Paul Weinstein, an economist with the Progressive Policy Institute in Washington.
Similarly, Chris Edwards, an economist at the libertarian CATO Institute, would like to see the "incredibly complicated" corporate tax system simplified by eliminating some tax breaks and then reducing the nominal 35 percent rate. "That would take away the incentive for companies to hide money," he says.
But members of the congressional tax committees have milked the tax code for years to obtain campaign money, he says. The corporate research and development tax credit, for instance, is only renewed for a year or two at a time. That encourages firms that benefit from the credit to continue to make party donations.
Who bears the brunt of corporate taxes has always been something of a mystery to economists. Do the taxes paid by firms get shifted to consumers in the form of higher prices, to employees in the form of lower wages, or to shareholders by lower dividends and profits? Or to all of them?
"We really don't know," says Sullivan.
But if Washington decides more revenues are essential, corporations may not be able to duck the tax man next time.
-Rocky
http://www.alternet.org/story/26509/
-Rocky
I'd buy one, but I'd rather have a new BMW.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Let's get to a-spendin! :P
I'll bet that you've worn out the exclamation mark (!) key on your keyboard, Rocky. Get down to Wal-Mart right now & buy a new keyboard.
I did like the Lincoln LS very much & might have bought one back in 2001 if any of my local Lincoln-Mercury dealers had made it possible for me to test-drive one with a stick. They didn't, so I didn't.
-Rocky
-Rocky