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The entire real estate boom of the last half decade was built on hope and prayers, rather than sound economics, by creating no-interest mortgages to lower payments below normal by a dramatic percentage, zero down payments to certain groups of people with poor credit, then wait until the loans return to "market rate" and watch them default...
What spiraled up slowly will now spiral down quickly...
L
And yes, the CEO and other management pay is out of control. The shareholders don't seem to have a voice and the board of directors seem to be getting fatter too. Could come a day when the shareholders call for special vote on CEO salaries - who knows.
L
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
L
I read it in the IUE newsletter and it was done by a independant source. It said union vs. non-union is 3-2 more productive on average. 3 to 1 vs. the Japanese. I of course no longer have the news letter as I never thought I'd need it again and got tossed or burned when grandma retired I'm sure. It was from the late 90's grandma said as I questioned her today on my way home from my interview. She said she didn't recall who did the audit. Department of Labor, she thought ????
I've given you a few sources showing how union shops are more productive than non-union. I guess you didn't care to read the links I and other provided ??? :confuse:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Perhaps affordable for people my parents age diesel, as they have equity built into their homes from the boom. However a young guy like myself or my brother we'd be in debt over our eyeballs. My immediant family on my father side taught I and my brother very well as a home mortagage should be no more than 1 weeks net pay. When I was working at Pantex, that would mean about $750.00 as my net pay was around $1500.00 every two weeks after 401k, healthcare, taxes. I claimed single and zero to get the maximum amount back come tax time. I know some family's that are paying 3 or even 4 weeks wages for a home mortgage. If they or their spouse lost their job, they'd be belly up !!!! :surprise:
-Rocky
Good luck on the job interview....
Thank-you gagrice.
The interview went very well and was invited back to a second interview tommorow morning where I will learn more about the company. I'm very excited and optomistic that this could be my "break" I've been waiting for gagrice.
I like the friendly atmosphere, culture, values, the company is looking for as I think I would fit in very well. :shades:
-Rocky
P.S. It's a new energy company specializing in natural gas.
Ha, Ha, Ha, ummmmm......No ! :P
-Rocky
Looks like this one could also go down to the wire. :surprise:
Good Night From The Great Lake State. My gosh it's nice to be HOME and say those words. I guess I could utter the words and still be correct by saying "Good Night From The Motor Capital Of The World"
Well at one time Grand Rapids, Michigan was known as the "Furniture Capital Of The World" but that has changed even though we are still one of the top leaders in that segment. Grand Rapids, Michigan is still 2nd in automotive related production and the population still is growing. :surprise: We have 1,320,487 people in the Greater Grand Rapids area as of the 2006 Census Estimate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Rapids
Good Night......
-Rocky
I've followed this discussion since it started. You have been a major contributor. In many of your contributions, you openly support Union militancy to the point of breaking laws (keying and other forms of property damage, threats, intimidation, harrassment, etc.) as a necessary part of solving differences with fellow workers and management.
First question:
What would your prospective employer think if they were to read some of your posts in this discussion?
Second question:
Right now you feel pretty good about this job prospect. Glad to hear that. Assuming you take the job, what would your position be if, after the honeymoon,you find it isn't what you expected and there are some serious issues you would like to see changed?
I've grown weary of the continual throwing up of the statements which are a reality that "things happen" during strikes as if it's some revealation of something happening in the UAW that never happened in other strikes in the past. If you believe strikes in the past have been walks through Mr. Roger's neighborhood you are suffering from the ultimate in naiveté. The Jimmy Hoffa era will give you some history in what happened in strikes. I recall a strike by Cincinnati Gas and Electric workers where a main power cable was cut.
>our prospective employer
Do you feel employers are always up front? Do you feel employers are always honest and caring when prepping for a possible strike. Do you think lockouts are just the employer trying to do the best for the workers' families?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My Dad alway made a modest income, yet he was able to pay off his house in less than 15 years and do all kinds of home improvements. On my Dad's income, he'd be lucky to pay for an apartment in a marginal neighborhood these days.
What furniture is made in Grand Rapids so I'll know what to look for when shopping for a dining room set. I'd be FURIOUS if I paid a whole lot of money for it and I see "Made in China" stamped on the boxes as it's being delivered.
Advocating militancy is completely different thing.
At its worst, when militancy erupts in a dispute, people get hurt, even killed, not to mention property damage which often occurs.
At the very least, lasting impressions are created and reinforced which tar union members with the same brush.
It's also yet another factor which encourages violence which seems to be growing worse in our society.
There is no value in it, period. It's unlawful, immoral, and stupid.
I'm also not so naive as to think militancy is exclusive to the UAW either.
Truth is, the vast majority of Union members (UAW or otherwise) don't like it, and would reluctantly agree that it's wrong.
Union members for the most part are decent, law abiding people who aren't violent.
But, like most of us, they often turn their heads when it happens.
Most, if not all violent acts during strikes or similar disputes are done by a minority.
Now, as to your questions:
Do you feel employers are always up front?
Do you feel employers are always honest and caring when prepping for a possible strike.
Do you think lockouts are just the employer trying to do the best for the workers' families
These are obviously (and intentionally so) rhetorical questions, but I'll do my best.
Employers aren't always up front. But the same question could be directed at Unions and Individuals---with the same answer.
Employers aren't always honest and caring preparing for strikes. But the same question could be directed at Unions---with the same answer. (Example--there's a very strong rumor going around here (Detroit) that the 2 day GM strike was orchestrated by Gettlefinger& Co. to shore up support for UAW leadership--that an agreement was struck BEFORE the strike was called!)
Your last question about lockouts is more politicized statement than a question, so it can't be answered..
Well that's not very smart. Bottom line, most people are not very disciplined with their finances. 30 years ago you couldn't buy a house w/o 20% down. If those standards were kept in place we wouldn't have the current housing mess.
As far as the avg midwest home value I quoted. That is the median. So lots of houses available for more and less. I agree with you that it's not wise to have more than 25% of net monthly income going out to a house payment.
There is no shame in renting. My wife and I rented a long time before buying our first house. Like anything else, you shouldn't buy one until you can afford it.
I must be doing pretty well as only 15.3% of my net monthly pay is going toward my house payment
Meanwhile, the UAW is negotiating what there $28-30 an hour wage will become in the next contract. This may be settled by now?
The Greensburg Honda plant doesn't want any applicants from the counties where the lost GM and Delphi jobs are. They must not want the pro-union mindset inside their doors. They must be assuming it rubs off onto your offspring and neighbors.
Last I heard, 85% of the value of a new Civic made and sold in US ends up in a Japanese bank, readily available for us Americans to borrow to buy a home. A $30k a year income in Greensburg can actually let you buy a home (or two loaded up Accords) on a 30 year mortgage. It's a pretty affordable place. Kokomo is 1st in affordability in the US for housing for all towns. Indy is 1st in US for same for all cities.
Do you have a link to something tangible about that having occured?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now that's employer/management discrimination. People from anywhere and everywhere should have the same opportunity for a job to support their children and families. What does Honda have against families?
>Honda Civic assembly plant workers at $14.84 an hour.
What's the actual amount computed the way management computes UAW salaries. $90 per hour would be my guess including all retirement plans, healthcare for everyone in the company, cost of limos for the executives, etc. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well, one would hope that he should feel comfortable addressing these issues with his supervisor.
One example might be a piece of safety equiptment on a piece of machinery. If it were broken, and you brought it up to the supervisor, and they said "don't worry about it; get back to work!!!", I would say you have every reason to refuse that assignment until the problem is fixed. If they threaten to fire you, you always have the recourse of going higher up, or to OSHA, but that may make the work environment uncomfortable. Where I work, if a piece of safety equip. is broken we refuse to work with that equip. until it is repaired or replaced. Because we are union, the supervisor will trip over themselves to get the situation resolved.
That being said, now the ball gets put in the employee's court, and you best be using the equip. when necessary, or you WILL be disciplined.
I'm not saying that this is perfect, or even my example a good one, but I feel it just takes alot of potential animosity away. If management does their job, we can do ours, and 99% of the time, everything goes off w/o a hitch.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If people had to shell out 20% before buying, house prices would have not gone so high, as far fewer qualified buyers would be bidding. It's chicken and egg.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The way I heard that rumor was the strike was called to demonstrate to the rank and file that the leaders were going to go all the way in support of the rank and file. And a short strike would soften the rank and file up for a positive vote on the contract.
The other rumor was that GM and the UAW orchestrated the strike to lower inventory, but that doesn't jibe with the Enclave shortage.
No link for you though.
Well if everyone had to save up 20% down, the houses wouldn't cost $300k. An asset is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
The problem around here (Illinois) is property taxes. They keep going up and up. We currently pay about $670/mo just for property taxes. Crazy. The payment on our first house 10 years ago was barely more than that including taxes.
If you want to work for them I'd move there in a hurry.
Well, it's certainly being talked about a lot in automotive circles here in Canada.
I first heard about it on the CBC evening (radio) news late last week (Friday)on an open line interview with an auto columnist named Dennis Desrosiers.
There was also reference to it an editorial in Monday's Globe and Mail (Toronto) Automotive section.
It wouldn't come as a surprise if it was true.
Both sides in Mgt/Labor negotiations only say publicly what they want their constituents to hear.
I'm acquainted with a good many Big Three negotiators on both sides of the fence.
Believe me, there's far more politics, play acting, posturing, and creating of illusions,than meets the eye in Big Three contract negotiations.
If more people knew the truth, some of these bozos would be in jail.(or worse!)
Was it rocky who mentioned about the possibility that UAW workers sabotaged the plants when they went on strike???...not only is that criminal, it is absurd...
If I ran a Japanese plant, I would want totally inexperienced folks, so they could be trained without any prior bad habits, and I would consider working for a Big 3 company a lifetime bad habit...
You may call it brainwashing, but someday you will finally figure out that companies do not want or need militant workers, and I would guess that after all the background checks, credit checks, criminal checks, prior employment history checks, personal reference checks, prior address checks (uh, yeah, I lived in Detroit for 20 years, worked in auto plants, but I really don't know what the UAW is), I am sure that the ranks of the "import plants" not only do NOT have any union folks in it, but that relations as distant as 3rd cousins never worked in a union plant...
No business needs that kind of antagonism...if you don't like the work, leave and find something else...the employers sets the work conditions (obviously within safety and OSHA limits, naturally), not the employees...if the work environment or the pay is not to your liking, leave and find a better job, there are no divine rights to work anywhere and make it the way YOU think it ought to be...
And, as far as discrimination...do you really think some 25 year old, walking in with his pants at the level of his crotch, exposing 6 inches of underclothing, grabbing his crotch every three minutes, stands a chance of getting a job anywhere???...there is no race component here, black, white, blue, green...if someone dressed like that walked into my office looking for a job, I wouldn't even wait to find out his name before showing him the door...
And while auto factories may not wear shirt and tie like I do, they often have uniforms...and, common sense says that even if you are applying for a job pumping gas, one should always show up in jacket and tie, simply to show respect for the interview process and your prospective employer...
Oops, sorry, I forgot that I was old school...:):):):):)
I, too, would hire people with no experience in car plants. Lots of companies hire that way on all sorts of levels. They want people that don't have pre-conceived notions of how things ought to be done.
Honda has a certain way of producing vehicles. It is different than Toyota and it is most definitely different than GM.
During the 80's & 90's my dad was the store manager of a large grocery store. When the mills were laying people off during the 80's, he told me on more than one occasion he avoided hiring layed off mill workers as much as possible.
Why, because after hiring several, he found that they'd quit w/o giving notice within a few weeks or he'd have to fire them within a month anyway because as he put it "they were more concerned about their next smoke break, than doing their job" and couldn't handle the pace of retail work.
I find that hard to believe. Unless they were on the cash registers at the local busy Kroger store. Everyone else has time to socialize in the retail around here--even Chinamart.
As I said in the earlier post Honda avoided anyone with connection to the unionized auto industries in the greater area because the were avoiding the union influence.
I heard on the news that Georgetown Toyo is having trouble maintaining a work force. They are going into high schools giving propaganda talks about working in their plant. That's odd they'd have trouble maintaining the work force if their pay is adequate in the perception of the locals in that region of Kentucky.
They should have 'em lined up at the personnel office door like middle-aged women at a Michael Buble concert.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ahem.... Let me rephrase: It's complete BS for them to do that(I hope Honda goes to hell)
Ahh, you've never worked a night crew in a high volume grocery store then. I used to work mid-nights in a grocery store during my summer breaks in college. I was far from overweight, but would lose 10-15 lbs stocking from stocking shelves 3 months.
Day's are a lot different, but trust me, in a busy store there is a lot of work to be done. Baggers and utility clerks don't count.
I've followed this discussion since it started. You have been a major contributor. In many of your contributions, you openly support Union militancy to the point of breaking laws (keying and other forms of property damage, threats, intimidation, harrassment, etc.) as a necessary part of solving differences with fellow workers and management.
I've never supported property damage. Pulling a few easily replaceable screws or wires loose and sitting them on a shelf at the plant is not property damage. It's not like they beat the machinery with a tire iron and it had to be replaced. I seriously doubt any of what I talked about happened this last strike. Your definition of property damage borders on the far extreme silverfox5. The threats and intimidation I talk about is for would be picket crossers. In most cases today at GM, plants
fellow workers, supervisors, that can't get along with others will find themselves out on the street. You either fit in or you don't. If you don't you will be gone.
What would your prospective employer think if they were to read some of your posts in this discussion?
I don't give two [non-permissible content removed], what they think. When I do a good job for them and if they reward me for my work we will have no problems. I'm obviously very opinionated and I'm not going to cower down in fear because my boss might read my posts on edmunds.
Right now you feel pretty good about this job prospect. Glad to hear that. Assuming you take the job, what would your position be if, after the honeymoon,you find it isn't what you expected and there are some serious issues you would like to see changed?
Well assuming the G.R. branch office opens soon I will probably be in management after the honeymoon. Well that's what they have told me. Right now it's going to be in sales because this company likes their new managers to learn from the bottom on up and promotions happen very quickly as in a few weeks due to the rapid expansion. I have a lot to learn silverfox5, tommorow will be day 3 and some more training. So yeah, if I have a problem they are very open to listen. I will cross that bridge when I get there to see how it goes. I can't make assumptions based on the unknown or lack of prior experience.
-Rocky
Yes Battle Creek is "Cereal City" still and the cereal is still union made.
What furniture is made in Grand Rapids so I'll know what to look for when shopping for a dining room set. I'd be FURIOUS if I paid a whole lot of money for it and I see "Made in China" stamped on the boxes as it's being delivered.
Contemporary West Michigan Furniture Manufacturers
http://www.iserv.net/~plucas/michigan.htm
Lemko, here's a history on one of the best manufactors of furniture in the world pal. It started here in Western, Mi. and is now located in North Carolina.
http://www.wzzm13.com/printfullstory.aspx?storyid=56437
Most of the furniture makers have went belly up here in Western, Mi. due to China. :sick: Some of it once upon a time was union made. Steelcase, use to be a major producer of office furniture but they have gone through some tough times and it didn't help that they hire the S.S. for management and the slashed and burned their good employees pay, benefits, bonuses, thus the people just quit. :sick:
-Rocky
1.Competence
2.Charisma
3.Character
When someone says:""I don't give two [non-permissible content removed], what they think."
That REALLY speaks to character (or lack of it)!!
You would not make a second interview at my company.
Nevertheless, good luck at your new job.
As a supervisor, you might find having such strong opinions is a handicap.
Perhaps you should think about that.
I have worked under a micro-management style for the last 5 years thus I don't have a lot of patience. Either [non-permissible content removed] or get off the pot. I want honest, smart, hard working people.
I'm not sure yet what will evolve out of this. In 2 weeks I could be working some where else. I'm taking a chance. I've never done sales. In 3 weeks I could be thrown into a office with minimal training and told to train others. :surprise: I'm not sure how thisis going to turn out.
What somebody says on edmunds about a group of good people fighting to keep their jobs and keep jobs here in the U.S. doesn't mean squat since that person can't change the scenario. It's a opinion. I do think my opinion of wanting to keep business in america for his fellow country men is not a bad thing.
-Rocky
I caught the tail end before the reporter went to the next story.......
-Rocky
I understand where you're coming from.
Unfortunately, it's a little late in the game to do the fighting at this stage.
An hour late and a dollar short.
Sadly, the decision is already made no matter how hard they fight.
This fight should have happened a decade ago.
How true: Hindsight is 20-20 vision!
-Rocky
Nope not at all.