You have a unique mind, as mindless sheep is EXACTLY how I describe union workers, who are unable to think on their own, so they join a group that does their thinking for them...that describes the North, sir, not the South...:):):):):)
Well the funny thing is marsha7, you southern folks are oh about 20 or 30 years behind. Nothing wrong with that I suppose as their is a lot of nice "simple" folks.
Union folks get together to plan a strategy. As the old saying goes two heads are better than one. I think the net worth and standard of living of the north vs. south debate speaks for itself and proves my point !!!! :P
The problem is they would rather gripe about how bad american cars are instead of actually comparing them.
You know Rocky, to a degree you are correct. I think the reason is that when people buy a car (usually one of their biggest and most important purchases other than a home), they are buying two things:
1 - the vehicle itself 2 - the company that made the vehicle
In the 80s and 90s, most of the American makes made a lot of crap and the word got out. There were a lot of defectors who had very bad experiences and don't want to repeat those situations.
Fast forward to 2007. Let's say (and I've not checked them out personally) that many of the new GM cars are really competitive. The Aura, the new CTS, etc. Let's say that the switches are as good or better than Honda, the interior quality is excellent, they are refined, and they drive very well. Let's also assume that these cars will have very good reliability.
If that's the case, then you've solved item #1 above - the vehicle itself. The problem is #2 - the company. Even if the company has changed, it takes many years (10? 20?) for perception to catch up with the reality of the changes. That's what GM is suffering from today, and why it is going to take time to climb back out of the hole they put themselves in. And they need to be consistent for quite a while to rebuild their reputation.
Imagine if Walmart cleaned up their poorer merchandise, cleaned up their stores, went a bit upscale. You'd still have the impression of "the Walmart greeter", the dumpy stores and employees. Your friend tells you how nice the local Walmart is, and you don't even want to go into one of those stores again! Well GM and Ford and Chrysler are KMart, Walmart, and Target --- but you want to shop at Macy's or Nordstroms!
Well the funny thing is marsha7, you southern folks are oh about 20 or 30 years behind. Nothing wrong with that I suppose as their is a lot of nice "simple" folks.
Rocky, just run as fast as you can if hear the "battling banjos" playing;) LOL
I will say, I'd prefer to live in Atlanta than most cities in the North. I hate winter. Kind of hard to use the boat when the lakes are covered by a foot of ice.
At least your lakes have water in them. Hotlanta is in its fourth year of drought. Georgia is at war with Alabama and we're not talking Dawgs v Tide. (link)
Of course, the Great Lakes are disappearing about as fast as UAW Tier 1 jobs too. (link)
I agree, not everyone with a degree is mechanically inclined,
Very true, my neighbor has a PHD in clinical psychology and consults all over the country. He is extremely intelligent and successful. But man, when it comes to mechanical devices he's clueless. I kid you not, I was helping him (he's in his 60's) put a push lawnmower in the trunk of his car. He was having trouble so I walked over and helped him out. It didn't occur to him that he could loosen a few knobs and fold the handle so it would fit in the trunk of his car.
So yes, I don't think he'd last long in a factory, unless he was giving psych evals.
Rocky, just run as fast as you can if hear the "battling banjos" playing;) LOL
LOL, I use to tease all my Texas friends and co-workers that living there was like reliving the past.
I will say, I'd prefer to live in Atlanta than most cities in the North. I hate winter. Kind of hard to use the boat when the lakes are covered by a foot of ice.
Wow !!!! :confuse: That's what a snowmobile is for ya southerner. :P Think of it as a boat for the ice. If ya want to go fishing you have options. You can drill a hole in the ice and fish with tip-ups or ice fish with specific ice fishing gear which consists of very small rod. You also can buy a Fish Shanney, pull it out on the ice with your Suburban, build ya a fire, drill ya hole, if ya drink beer they'll stay cold obviously. Some people bring a portable TV, recliner, hotdogs for the fire, etc, with them. LOL !!!!
But honestly everyone I talk to says the same thing a Bachelor's degree is nothing more than a glorified high school diploma.
Making statements like that just show how clueless you are about what kind of hard works were being done behind a so called "glorified high school diploma". Come to Georgia Tech, sit in couple engineering classes for one semester(prefer aerospace engineering) then try to make that kind of statement again with a straight face.
Well Atlanta, has it's fair share of labor unions. I've only been through Georgia, a couple times and both times were on the way to Florida. I'd like to visit Lake Sidney Lanier, someday. :shades: I also would like to visit Royston, and see where the great Ty Cobb, lived and was buried.
True, but even people with thosedegrees have a hard time finding a job as employers want several years of experience or their not interested
That is totally untrue. More than 80% of my classmates were able to secure a job before graduation. The rest 20% (including me) went to graduate schools.
A degree of a good major from a decent school can go a long way for you...
Making statements like that just show how clueless you are about what kind of hard works were being done behind a so called "glorified high school diploma". Come to Georgia Tech, sit in couple engineering classes for one semester(prefer aerospace engineering) then try to make that kind of statement again with a straight face.
I'll bet my car key that you won't be able to.
Well I was generalizing. Some people have Bachlors degrees in underwater basket weaving. Boy I'm glad to see somebody is perky this morning.
That is totally untrue. More than 80% of my classmates were able to secure a job before graduation. The rest 20% (including me) went to graduate schools.
Well yeah if your in engineering their is a huge shortage. However if this administration and congress get's it's way we will see India, fill those shortages with work visa's. :sick:
A degree of a good major from a decent school can go a long way for you...
That is totally true. A good school as in Yale, Harvard, Princeton ???? Ya better graduate and make the big bucks to afford those schools. Going to anyone of them could cost you way more than most folks mortgage. :surprise: I guess if you got a wealthy mommy and daddy flippin' the coin for ya then all is okay.
There are good public schools as well. A good school doesn't automatically mean Ivy League. A Georgia resident with a 3.0 GPA can attend any in state public universities for free plus $150 per semester to buy books. Flordia, if I am not mistaken, has similar program as well. One doesn't need a wealthy parents in order to go to school.
A lot of my classmates also worked for their tuition. If one is determined to do something, he/she will succeed. The rest are just excuses.
I don't disagree with your points. I'd add that the company has changed. But the perception, which you include, is what people buy. They are afraid to buy a car that some car-haters warn is from an awful company and they warn that you must buy only a Honda or Toyota because they are wonderful and never have to have repairs (many didn't realize recall work was done on their cars when in for the MANDATORY service the salesman demanded they must have done or they would lose their warranty, which would be a violation of Federal Law). But those foreign brands made a reputation, not always earned, and the know-it-alls perpetuate the image even though they're wrong.
Those include the persons in the social group or the next cubical at work. You know, they' e the ones with all the computer knowledge about how to fix your computer at home when it's got all those viruses, trojans, and spyware on it and takes 10 minutes to boot up. Of course they end up doing an fdisk and reinstall of windows 98 when it could have been fixed by a truly knowledgeable person. But the timid user or car buyer goes by what those folk have said.
Example: longtime friend of ours insisted on not shopping and bought a Corolla. She'd had a 95 Civic which rusted, wouldn't start, headliner falling down, etc., but foreign cars are better made she was sure. She bought from the dealer charging an extra $700 minimum for mudflaps and probably tacked on a $600 doc fee. Her car got tapped while parallel parked downtown breaking the lower front fascia away and requiring replacement of that whole bumper cover left to right. She never has admitted what that cost her. Not well made. I discovered it while she was getting in her car in our driveway; it was bulged out in front of the left wheel.
But she's sure she bought the best and most economical car for her. She wouldn't shop any other cars. She wouldn't even let me or her adult daughter take her to a nearby city where a new deal probably negotiates much better to sell cars into the metro Dayton area from a rural Indiana city.
Her perception is so slanted because of peoples' opinions against US cars.
"Have you honestly ever been inside a automobile plant before ????"
Yes, many, many times. My company is a supplier to all of them. My people and I are continually amazed and appalled at how much redundancy, duplication of effort, and general inefficiency is built into these plants. Often when we deliver a project, my people wait, and wait, and wait, for someone to accept delivery---then there always weems to be another delay waiting for the "right person" to unload, then another person has to guide the unloader to the "right place", then at least three different trades people have to agree who will integrate it into the system, all the while there are at least a couple of people standing around watching all this going on, then nine times out of ten we are lectured by a union rep that "their" people are the only ones who can touch it, handle it, or connect it, or trouble shoot it........and it goes on, and on, and on!! This seems to be getting worse, not better. A recent incident involved getting a small electric pump removed from a machine. (Normally a 5 minute job by one person). It took a millwright and helper to remove the assembly, a lengthy wait for an electrician to disconnect the wires, and a safety rep to inspect the job both before and after it was done. No, I'm not against Unions, but if I had to run my company as inefficiently as that I would soon be out of business--or the price of my products would have to increase by at least 200 percent!!! The key to job protection is exactly the opposite. If the UAW is sincere about job creation, this situation has to be addressed---and fixed!
"a Bachelor's degree is nothing more than a glorified high school diploma."
WRONG!! This isn't true! I do agree, however, not everyone with a degree is mechanically inclined, nor perhaps skillful at running production equipment, but please let's not marginalize the work those people do to get a degree! I do agree, however, that our educational system tends to be academic elitist. That is, our education system caters to a principle that a degree is fundamental for success. (hence we don't train enough trades, service people, etc, because these careers aren't considered 'prestigious'). I agree that 'non batchelor degree' occupations should be given more consideration in our educational system. But that doesn't mean getting an undergrad degree should be discounted.
"No mere mortal could ever hope to do a UAW job"
I certainly see many "mortals" working in the plants I visit. Yes, it takes a certain aptitude to do the kind of work they do, but last thing I heard, humans are doing it, and many more are willing to--if and when!!
>'d prefer to live in Atlanta than most cities in the North. I hate winter.
I recall flying to Atlanta for President's Day weekend to visit friends and everything closed down because there had been snow flurries leaving a slight (.01 inch)coating of ice on spots on the roads. Lennox shopping center closed. No planning for city services.
That wins my laugh-for-the-day award. See there is benefit from that UAW juice in your blood that upsets $200/hour attorneys who produce nothing for the GNP.
Please read my post about the three tiers of colleges and degrees. If you send an email to my carspace I'll give you names of colleges that are crap.
How about those Georgia State degrees there in Atlanta? How do they compare with a 1st tier? Fill me in on level of entrants to freshman class for Clark Atlanta? Spelman? Oglethorpe? Spelman?
Please don't try to discredit the intent of rockylee's post by misinterpreting again. Georgia Tech may have a strong repution but many, many others don't. That's especially true as through the 90s they accepting any body and every body (words separated intentially) that was breathing because bodies meant state support money.
Wow !!!! :confuse: That's what a snowmobile is for ya southerner. :P Think of it as a boat for the ice. If ya want to go fishing you have options. You can drill a hole in the ice and fish with tip-ups or ice fish with specific ice fishing gear which consists of very small rod. You also can buy a Fish Shanney, pull it out on the ice with your Suburban, build ya a fire, drill ya hole, if ya drink beer they'll stay cold obviously. Some people bring a portable TV, recliner, hotdogs for the fire, etc, with them. LOL !!!!
Hey, I grew up in northern Indiana and currently live in Illinois, so I'm well aware of winter activities.
Going to lake during the winter, just isn't the same. No Bikini's!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my God, Rocky! I hope it isn't one of those Amway/Primerica/Kirby deals.
I HATE these "employers" who waste your time promising you the moon and they turn out to be one of those straight-commission no benefits "jobs." I was out of work twenty years ago and got suckered into a Kirby sales job. The Kirby is an excellent vacuum, but there certainly isn't much of a market for $1,600 vacuum cleaners and I needed a steady paycheck, not the elusive promise of fat commissions. I did manage to sell one for the big fat commission of $150. I sold another one, but the customer's credit was denied. After two weeks of that bull, I left and just got a temp job until things improved.
There ought to be a law against MLM/Direct Marketing companies posting false and misleading ads. There are plenty of desperate, unemployed people seeking real work and a real paycheck who don't need to be sidetracked into wasting their time and money with these "pie-in-the-sky" false dreams. :mad:
Shoot, I loved the old Wal~Mart when Sam was still alive. I could buy a large deodorant stick for half the price of the local supermarkets and they carried an excellent product called No-Streek Glass Polish. The stores were clean and the associates were very helpful.
Today it's like walking into a third-world country, the selection is poor, and there is hardly any staff to be found. I wanted to buy some ammunition. Back in the day there was somebody always behind the sporting goods counter. This time I had to chase down an associate to help me and it almost took half an hour to find him.
Several years ago when I last went car shopping I decided to take a look at a new Lexus LS430 just to see if it really was a good as everybody claims. I expected this great epiphany like, "Omigod! This car makes my Cadillacs look like junk!" Instead, it was, "Huh? This car feels just like a Buick Park Avenue!" Sure, it had a nicer interior and the bits and pieces felt better, but not $5K-$10K nicer than any Cadillac or Buick.
The new issue of Consumer misReports has a list of recommended used cars. Almost all are Toyota and Honda. That includes the LS models. Don't they have a lot of expensive problems before and after the warranty period?
The only things I remember is that the early LS had problems with the power steering pump and the instrument cluster. I do recall seeing one with a broken axle on the PA Turnpike. It's been a l-o-n-g time since I saw a car with a broken axle.
I'm seeing updates in the newspaper here every day. The latest reports indicate it's been ratified by all locals reporting so far. No indication of a percentage yet. I assume we'll have to wait until all locals have completed their ratification votes before the stats are known Our local GM plant (A tranny assembly plant in Ontario, Canada) is scheduled for shutdown in 2009. Collective agreements in Canada expire next year. It'll be interesting to see how they go after all the US agreements are in place this fall.
My sister was a liar for her entire childhood and several years into her adult life. Then she was getting (honestly) upset when once she told the truth and nobody believed her.
Is it some kind of deep conspiracy between people or twenty-thirty years of "hard work" from domestic companies to earn that kind of distrust of customers? And how much do you think will it take to earn trust back? Just two years of model that may or may not be "as good" as the competition? I don't think so.
Yes, Wal-Mart is starting to get that run down feel, like a Kmart in a bad part of town, IMHO. Still has some good items, for a good price. I personally prefer Target and Costco.
As for Lexus, they do seem overpriced. I however have yet to drive one, so can not comment of the drive. Seems like people which own them find them as good or better than owning a Mercedes or Cadillac overall. This is how the car holds up, not simply how you see it in the show room. It has to do with fewer trips to the service bay. And they are said to have a tight build. I never could justify the price difference though on the base Lexus, as it looks to me to be too close to the top Camry. And in the early years of the base RWD little sporty car, I thought it to look a bit more like a compact, say a Civic, Corolla, or Accent. Now they look a bit more like something worthy the price. I am a bit old school on paying the big bucks though for Japan cars, as good as it may be, I am thinking Mercedes or Bimmer at those prices, and for the lower end, perhaps the Caddy CTS. Then there is Infinity and Acura. I don't know what to think on those. L
Well to make the big bucks anyway. So many chiefs, so little Indians. What's up with all these degrees required, yet it seems companies are doing the absolute most idiotic moves. Are your everyday products safer and lasting longer? Are there honest people left? You wonder after seeing all books being questioned. Where are all the brilliant minds being used? Please, don't tell me there are more educated idiots in this world. That is all we need, more academia, and less those which can do.
I will agree, do the time in college and get the degree. I did not, but things worked out quite well. For the younger group of people, it is absolutely necessary to play the sheepskin game. L
Based on my own experience with Honda & Toyota cars, which goes back to 1974, I'd say no. For example, my wife owned a Lexus ES 300 for 8 years, which means that she kept it for 4 years after the factory warranty ran out. Her outlays for out-of-warranty repair costs totaled less than $500, or a bit more than $10/month. (I kept the service records.)
I could also cite a late 80s Accord that we bought new & kept for nearly 12 years. Repair costs for the last 2 years that we had the car came to about $1,000/year, or about $85/month. (What can you buy for $85/month?) After we decided to replace it with the Lexus, we sold it in 1 day.
I know that some folks here would like to believe that those of us who buy Japanese cars do so because we've been brainwashed, but the truth is that we keep going back because we've had good ownership experiences.
I know the question is aimed at jimbres, but I'll take a stab at it anyway -
I think that it's possible. It hasn't worked out that way for me. Does not mean I'll never darken the doorstep of a domestic dealership again. I do have certain opinions based on my own experiences and those of friends and relatives.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Big 3 are better today than they were in the 80s and 90s...but it seems that a bad taste takes a long time to leave your mouth...I would bet that there are more people out than you realize, who had bad experiences with Big 3 cars, maybe in the 80s and 90s, and simply had a better experience with an import...now their presumtion is that the import is good whereas the Big 3 vehicle may not be...you can argue the academics all you want, you can argue about Big 3 cars scoring high on JD Power, etc., but for many folks the bias is against Big 3 cars and in favor of the imports...
I would also guess that, despite what union folks want to think, the person who deserted Big 3 and became an import convert, if asked why s/he switched, would blame quality problems on union labor and service problems on their dealer who seems to always say "no, that noise is designed that way, so the car keeps squealing and pulling to the right"...
Trust built up over may years can be destroyed in an instant if one feels violated...I would guess that many folks simply do not trust Big 3, after trusting them but having a bad experience that they will never forget...the explains those over the age of 50, who probably tell their kids about their experiences and the kids grow up with an internal bias toward imports, or, if not a bias TO them, at least a "lack of allegiance" toward Big 3, so brand loyalty to GM/Ford/Chrysler will never exist like it did in the previous century...anybody under 50, not counting UAW offspring, is certainly NOT biased in favor of GM or Ford, they just see them as another car company...
And until the Big 3 do something to stand out in a crowd, they are destined to lose market share simply because the younger folks who have NO brand bias, when searching for a car, seem to pick the import brands instead...
If you agree with nothing I have said, at least be aware that GM/Ford/Chrysler have a big challenge ahead of them because amost nobody is biased toward them, they are either neutral or biased against them, which does not bode well for the future, unless they start to make some REALLY good cars.....................with some REALLY good switches (I just could not resiste that final phrase)...:):):):)
I got a ear full from my body today about it. He said Rocky, I'm glad you quit as it's a Enron, waiting to happen. He said the market being deregulated is a short-term Enron, like scam. He said if you get caught up in that Pyramid scheme you could be left holding the bag. He said the Feds, are not regulating these new "temp companys" as I call them as they will build it up make their money and leave. I hadn't even started training and they were on me about investing X amount of my income back into the company. As my buddy Pat, said at least Amway, Kirby, is manufactoring a product and has a business establishement. He said these "pie in the sky" corporations are Enron, like and are selling another company's product making their money of margins and futures. I said yep, that's the drift I was getting as I learned more about how they operate. I did lemko, get a first hand education on how shady some company's are. I said I can't sell something to others I wouldn't buy myself or sell to a loved one.
Well I'm still looking very hard. I do think I wouldbe good at sales, but not door to door selling a shady product. :mad:
if asked why s/he switched, would blame quality problems on union labor
The workers in the factories are just hanging parts onto the frame, or at least that's the common perception. I doubt that many people think the people on the line have anything to do with a water pump that fails and I bet few blame a UAW worker for that.
They may should be blaming the UAW worker at Delphi who actually put the parts together, but I doubt they are. If the pump fails prematurely, most will think it's either a design problem or the manufacturer skimped on the quality of the parts that went into the pump.
The dealers may point their fingers at the manufacturer for making lousy cars, but a good dealer can make a lemon owner happy. When I have car trouble, that's who I'm talking to, not the factory rep. The guy on the line is not even on my radar when I have car trouble, nor am I thinking about whether the car was assembled by union labor or not when I shop for a new one.
I agree. It is first the dealer that services the car and if it does not get fixed it is the manufacturer. How would you even know where the water pump or starter comes from. Could be Bangledesh or Cleveland Ohio. I buy based on past experience and my needs at the time. Has little to do with who put it together. 4 out of my last 5 GM vehicles were assembled in Mexico or Canada. Not by a UAW member in the USA. So now I may buy a Toyota. As I do not like the new GM SUVs. If the UAW was building something I liked I would buy it.
They may should be blaming the UAW worker at Delphi who actually put the parts together, but I doubt they are.
Well UAW-Delphi, worker's aren't making many parts for cars these days so it's kinda hard to blame them per se. They have what 8 plants open here in the U.S. ??? :sick: I could be wrong but I believe the water pumps are made in mexico.
The auto parts are inspected and some are tested at UAW-Delphi plants. If it fails prematurely it's probably a design flaw or some other engineering issue.
Well Rocky, if you want to be a salesman, then sell what ya know. If it is in the automobile field, target that - say GM, since you love their line of products. Sell what you know and have a passion for.
Good luck, and make good choices. Good night from the left coast, L
Comments
-Rocky
Union folks get together to plan a strategy. As the old saying goes two heads are better than one. I think the net worth and standard of living of the north vs. south debate speaks for itself and proves my point !!!! :P
-Rocky
You know Rocky, to a degree you are correct. I think the reason is that when people buy a car (usually one of their biggest and most important purchases other than a home), they are buying two things:
1 - the vehicle itself
2 - the company that made the vehicle
In the 80s and 90s, most of the American makes made a lot of crap and the word got out. There were a lot of defectors who had very bad experiences and don't want to repeat those situations.
Fast forward to 2007. Let's say (and I've not checked them out personally) that many of the new GM cars are really competitive. The Aura, the new CTS, etc. Let's say that the switches are as good or better than Honda, the interior quality is excellent, they are refined, and they drive very well. Let's also assume that these cars will have very good reliability.
If that's the case, then you've solved item #1 above - the vehicle itself. The problem is #2 - the company. Even if the company has changed, it takes many years (10? 20?) for perception to catch up with the reality of the changes. That's what GM is suffering from today, and why it is going to take time to climb back out of the hole they put themselves in. And they need to be consistent for quite a while to rebuild their reputation.
Imagine if Walmart cleaned up their poorer merchandise, cleaned up their stores, went a bit upscale. You'd still have the impression of "the Walmart greeter", the dumpy stores and employees. Your friend tells you how nice the local Walmart is, and you don't even want to go into one of those stores again! Well GM and Ford and Chrysler are KMart, Walmart, and Target --- but you want to shop at Macy's or Nordstroms!
Rocky, just run as fast as you can if hear the "battling banjos" playing;) LOL
I will say, I'd prefer to live in Atlanta than most cities in the North. I hate winter. Kind of hard to use the boat when the lakes are covered by a foot of ice.
That sucks, keep hitting the streets and something will certainly turn up. Good luck
Of course, the Great Lakes are disappearing about as fast as UAW Tier 1 jobs too. (link)
I was driving through Atlanta in mid August, my God was it hot. Nothing like 102 temps with like 1000% humidity.
My God did I type that. Yep, I'm edjumecated. Maybe I should either proof read or use the spell check.
Very true, my neighbor has a PHD in clinical psychology and consults all over the country. He is extremely intelligent and successful. But man, when it comes to mechanical devices he's clueless. I kid you not, I was helping him (he's in his 60's) put a push lawnmower in the trunk of his car. He was having trouble so I walked over and helped him out. It didn't occur to him that he could loosen a few knobs and fold the handle so it would fit in the trunk of his car.
So yes, I don't think he'd last long in a factory, unless he was giving psych evals.
LOL, I use to tease all my Texas friends and co-workers that living there was like reliving the past.
I will say, I'd prefer to live in Atlanta than most cities in the North. I hate winter. Kind of hard to use the boat when the lakes are covered by a foot of ice.
Wow !!!! :confuse: That's what a snowmobile is for ya southerner. :P Think of it as a boat for the ice.
If ya want to go fishing you have options. You can drill a hole in the ice and fish with tip-ups or ice fish with specific ice fishing gear which consists of very small rod. You also can buy a Fish Shanney, pull it out on the ice with your Suburban, build ya a fire, drill ya hole, if ya drink beer they'll stay cold obviously. Some people bring a portable TV, recliner, hotdogs for the fire, etc, with them.
-Rocky
Thanks diesel.
Oh well life goes on.....
-Rocky
Making statements like that just show how clueless you are about what kind of hard works were being done behind a so called "glorified high school diploma". Come to Georgia Tech, sit in couple engineering classes for one semester(prefer aerospace engineering) then try to make that kind of statement again with a straight face.
I'll bet my car key that you won't be able to.
No you don't, stop lying. Making statements like:
"But honestly everyone I talk to says the same thing a Bachelor's degree is nothing more than a glorified high school diploma."
shows how much respect you have for a college degree.
-Rocky
That is totally untrue. More than 80% of my classmates were able to secure a job before graduation. The rest 20% (including me) went to graduate schools.
A degree of a good major from a decent school can go a long way for you...
I'll bet my car key that you won't be able to.
Well I was generalizing. Some people have Bachlors degrees in underwater basket weaving. Boy I'm glad to see somebody is perky this morning.
-Rocky
I actually do respect it but many people think because you don't have a college degree you are automatically a dummy.
shows how much respect you have for a college degree.
I didn't make the statement your fellow college graduates are the ones who convinced me of it. I did go to college for a half semester.
-Rocky
Well yeah if your in engineering their is a huge shortage. However if this administration and congress get's it's way we will see India, fill those shortages with work visa's. :sick:
A degree of a good major from a decent school can go a long way for you...
That is totally true. A good school as in Yale, Harvard, Princeton ???? Ya better graduate and make the big bucks to afford those schools. Going to anyone of them could cost you way more than most folks mortgage. :surprise: I guess if you got a wealthy mommy and daddy flippin' the coin for ya then all is okay.
-Rocky
A lot of my classmates also worked for their tuition. If one is determined to do something, he/she will succeed. The rest are just excuses.
Those include the persons in the social group or the next cubical at work. You know, they' e the ones with all the computer knowledge about how to fix your computer at home when it's got all those viruses, trojans, and spyware on it and takes 10 minutes to boot up. Of course they end up doing an fdisk and reinstall of windows 98 when it could have been fixed by a truly knowledgeable person. But the timid user or car buyer goes by what those folk have said.
Example: longtime friend of ours insisted on not shopping and bought a Corolla. She'd had a 95 Civic which rusted, wouldn't start, headliner falling down, etc., but foreign cars are better made she was sure. She bought from the dealer charging an extra $700 minimum for mudflaps and probably tacked on a $600 doc fee. Her car got tapped while parallel parked downtown breaking the lower front fascia away and requiring replacement of that whole bumper cover left to right. She never has admitted what that cost her. Not well made. I discovered it while she was getting in her car in our driveway; it was bulged out in front of the left wheel.
But she's sure she bought the best and most economical car for her. She wouldn't shop any other cars. She wouldn't even let me or her adult daughter take her to a nearby city where a new deal probably negotiates much better to sell cars into the metro Dayton area from a rural Indiana city.
Her perception is so slanted because of peoples' opinions against US cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, many, many times. My company is a supplier to all of them.
My people and I are continually amazed and appalled at how much redundancy, duplication of effort, and general inefficiency is built into these plants.
Often when we deliver a project, my people wait, and wait, and wait, for someone to accept delivery---then there always weems to be another delay waiting for the "right person" to unload, then another person has to guide the unloader to the "right place", then at least three different trades people have to agree who will integrate it into the system, all the while there are at least a couple of people standing around watching all this going on, then nine times out of ten we are lectured by a union rep that "their" people are the only ones who can touch it, handle it, or connect it, or trouble shoot it........and it goes on, and on, and on!!
This seems to be getting worse, not better.
A recent incident involved getting a small electric pump removed from a machine. (Normally a 5 minute job by one person). It took a millwright and helper to remove the assembly, a lengthy wait for an electrician to disconnect the wires, and a safety rep to inspect the job both before and after it was done.
No, I'm not against Unions, but if I had to run my company as inefficiently as that I would soon be out of business--or the price of my products would have to increase by at least 200 percent!!!
The key to job protection is exactly the opposite.
If the UAW is sincere about job creation, this situation has to be addressed---and fixed!
"a Bachelor's degree is nothing more than a glorified high school diploma."
WRONG!! This isn't true!
I do agree, however, not everyone with a degree is mechanically inclined, nor perhaps skillful at running production equipment, but please let's not marginalize the work those people do to get a degree!
I do agree, however, that our educational system tends to be academic elitist.
That is, our education system caters to a principle that a degree is fundamental for success. (hence we don't train enough trades, service people, etc, because these careers aren't considered 'prestigious').
I agree that 'non batchelor degree' occupations should be given more consideration in our educational system.
But that doesn't mean getting an undergrad degree should be discounted.
"No mere mortal could ever hope to do a UAW job"
I certainly see many "mortals" working in the plants I visit.
Yes, it takes a certain aptitude to do the kind of work they do, but last thing I heard, humans are doing it, and many more are willing to--if and when!!
I recall flying to Atlanta for President's Day weekend to visit friends and everything closed down because there had been snow flurries leaving a slight (.01 inch)coating of ice on spots on the roads. Lennox shopping center closed. No planning for city services.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That wins my laugh-for-the-day award.
See there is benefit from that UAW juice in your blood that upsets $200/hour attorneys who produce nothing for the GNP.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
How about those Georgia State degrees there in Atlanta? How do they compare with a 1st tier? Fill me in on level of entrants to freshman class for Clark Atlanta? Spelman? Oglethorpe? Spelman?
Please don't try to discredit the intent of rockylee's post by misinterpreting again. Georgia Tech may have a strong repution but many, many others don't. That's especially true as through the 90s they accepting any body and every body (words separated intentially) that was breathing because bodies meant state support money.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If ya want to go fishing you have options. You can drill a hole in the ice and fish with tip-ups or ice fish with specific ice fishing gear which consists of very small rod. You also can buy a Fish Shanney, pull it out on the ice with your Suburban, build ya a fire, drill ya hole, if ya drink beer they'll stay cold obviously. Some people bring a portable TV, recliner, hotdogs for the fire, etc, with them.
Hey, I grew up in northern Indiana and currently live in Illinois, so I'm well aware of winter activities.
Going to lake during the winter, just isn't the same. No Bikini's!!!!!!!!!!
I HATE these "employers" who waste your time promising you the moon and they turn out to be one of those straight-commission no benefits "jobs." I was out of work twenty years ago and got suckered into a Kirby sales job. The Kirby is an excellent vacuum, but there certainly isn't much of a market for $1,600 vacuum cleaners and I needed a steady paycheck, not the elusive promise of fat commissions. I did manage to sell one for the big fat commission of $150. I sold another one, but the customer's credit was denied. After two weeks of that bull, I left and just got a temp job until things improved.
There ought to be a law against MLM/Direct Marketing companies posting false and misleading ads. There are plenty of desperate, unemployed people seeking real work and a real paycheck who don't need to be sidetracked into wasting their time and money with these "pie-in-the-sky" false dreams. :mad:
Today it's like walking into a third-world country, the selection is poor, and there is hardly any staff to be found. I wanted to buy some ammunition. Back in the day there was somebody always behind the sporting goods counter. This time I had to chase down an associate to help me and it almost took half an hour to find him.
Several years ago when I last went car shopping I decided to take a look at a new Lexus LS430 just to see if it really was a good as everybody claims. I expected this great epiphany like, "Omigod! This car makes my Cadillacs look like junk!" Instead, it was, "Huh? This car feels just like a Buick Park Avenue!" Sure, it had a nicer interior and the bits and pieces felt better, but not $5K-$10K nicer than any Cadillac or Buick.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Obviously, you're talking to the wrong people.
--
Mark V., BSME (BS in Mechanical Engineering)
Sorry. It was just sitting there.
I'd like to collect my winnings and see the discussion get back to the UAW. :P
The latest reports indicate it's been ratified by all locals reporting so far.
No indication of a percentage yet.
I assume we'll have to wait until all locals have completed their ratification votes before the stats are known
Our local GM plant (A tranny assembly plant in Ontario, Canada) is scheduled for shutdown in 2009.
Collective agreements in Canada expire next year.
It'll be interesting to see how they go after all the US agreements are in place this fall.
My sister was a liar for her entire childhood and several years into her adult life. Then she was getting (honestly) upset when once she told the truth and nobody believed her.
Is it some kind of deep conspiracy between people or twenty-thirty years of "hard work" from domestic companies to earn that kind of distrust of customers? And how much do you think will it take to earn trust back? Just two years of model that may or may not be "as good" as the competition? I don't think so.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for Lexus, they do seem overpriced. I however have yet to drive one, so can not comment of the drive. Seems like people which own them find them as good or better than owning a Mercedes or Cadillac overall. This is how the car holds up, not simply how you see it in the show room. It has to do with fewer trips to the service bay. And they are said to have a tight build. I never could justify the price difference though on the base Lexus, as it looks to me to be too close to the top Camry. And in the early years of the base RWD little sporty car, I thought it to look a bit more like a compact, say a Civic, Corolla, or Accent. Now they look a bit more like something worthy the price.
I am a bit old school on paying the big bucks though for Japan cars, as good as it may be, I am thinking Mercedes or Bimmer at those prices, and for the lower end, perhaps the Caddy CTS. Then there is Infinity and Acura. I don't know what to think on those.
L
What's up with all these degrees required, yet it seems companies are doing the absolute most idiotic moves. Are your everyday products safer and lasting longer? Are there honest people left? You wonder after seeing all books being questioned. Where are all the brilliant minds being used? Please, don't tell me there are more educated idiots in this world. That is all we need, more academia, and less those which can do.
I will agree, do the time in college and get the degree. I did not, but things worked out quite well. For the younger group of people, it is absolutely necessary to play the sheepskin game.
L
I could also cite a late 80s Accord that we bought new & kept for nearly 12 years. Repair costs for the last 2 years that we had the car came to about $1,000/year, or about $85/month. (What can you buy for $85/month?) After we decided to replace it with the Lexus, we sold it in 1 day.
I know that some folks here would like to believe that those of us who buy Japanese cars do so because we've been brainwashed, but the truth is that we keep going back because we've had good ownership experiences.
And that's understandable. Do you think you would have good ownership experiences with some other cars?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think that it's possible. It hasn't worked out that way for me. Does not mean I'll never darken the doorstep of a domestic dealership again. I do have certain opinions based on my own experiences and those of friends and relatives.
I would also guess that, despite what union folks want to think, the person who deserted Big 3 and became an import convert, if asked why s/he switched, would blame quality problems on union labor and service problems on their dealer who seems to always say "no, that noise is designed that way, so the car keeps squealing and pulling to the right"...
Trust built up over may years can be destroyed in an instant if one feels violated...I would guess that many folks simply do not trust Big 3, after trusting them but having a bad experience that they will never forget...the explains those over the age of 50, who probably tell their kids about their experiences and the kids grow up with an internal bias toward imports, or, if not a bias TO them, at least a "lack of allegiance" toward Big 3, so brand loyalty to GM/Ford/Chrysler will never exist like it did in the previous century...anybody under 50, not counting UAW offspring, is certainly NOT biased in favor of GM or Ford, they just see them as another car company...
And until the Big 3 do something to stand out in a crowd, they are destined to lose market share simply because the younger folks who have NO brand bias, when searching for a car, seem to pick the import brands instead...
If you agree with nothing I have said, at least be aware that GM/Ford/Chrysler have a big challenge ahead of them because amost nobody is biased toward them, they are either neutral or biased against them, which does not bode well for the future, unless they start to make some REALLY good cars.....................with some REALLY good switches (I just could not resiste that final phrase)...:):):):)
Well I'm still looking very hard. I do think I wouldbe good at sales, but not door to door selling a shady product. :mad:
-Rocky
I guess you haven't been far enough north as we have the Polar Bear club up here.
-Rocky
The workers in the factories are just hanging parts onto the frame, or at least that's the common perception. I doubt that many people think the people on the line have anything to do with a water pump that fails and I bet few blame a UAW worker for that.
They may should be blaming the UAW worker at Delphi who actually put the parts together, but I doubt they are. If the pump fails prematurely, most will think it's either a design problem or the manufacturer skimped on the quality of the parts that went into the pump.
The dealers may point their fingers at the manufacturer for making lousy cars, but a good dealer can make a lemon owner happy. When I have car trouble, that's who I'm talking to, not the factory rep. The guy on the line is not even on my radar when I have car trouble, nor am I thinking about whether the car was assembled by union labor or not when I shop for a new one.
Well UAW-Delphi, worker's aren't making many parts for cars these days so it's kinda hard to blame them per se. They have what 8 plants open here in the U.S. ??? :sick: I could be wrong but I believe the water pumps are made in mexico.
The auto parts are inspected and some are tested at UAW-Delphi plants. If it fails prematurely it's probably a design flaw or some other engineering issue.
-Rocky
Good luck, and make good choices.
Good night from the left coast, L