Thanks Loren. I am going to hit the car dealers hard in person this next week. Is being a salesman of any kind my dream job ? No !!! I however do think I'd be quite good at it especially with cars. I Loren, could sell a Acura as easy as I could sell as Chevy Malibu. I know a lot about both products and cars in general and I owe some of that knowledge to this site.
The special training I've received while working at Pantex, is running a little thin on jobs unless I wanted to work for Blackwater, and we have all seen lately just how much trouble those folks are in. :surprise: I've been promised a job at the Casino, by my father's Indian friend when it's built and tonight I found out the Nuke plant is goingto do another round of hiring in January, and rumor has it the contractor will be gone along with it's politics. So I'm still very optomistic in this shakey economy here in Western, Michigan.
-Rocky
P.S. Good night as well Loren, from the Great Lake State. :shades:
Yes. Just as the Big Three lost their market share one customer at a time - drip, drip, drip - so, too, will they have to reclaim it in the same manner. If they do not approach it that way, thinking that a few great models will restore them, they are doomed to fail.
I'm a different case in that way. When I was 17 we had a lot of family up at the house and at one point it was time to take my grandmother home. I was chosen as driver and the last car in the driveway was my uncle's Opel. I became hopelessly hooked on small, good handling cars.
That said, the vast majority of the folks that jumped ship did so reluctantly and were stunned at the difference and never looked back. Getting those folks is going to be a tough nut to crack.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I heard that engine blocks are cast full of sand that gets cleaned out. Then they are machined and that gets cleaned out. Then they put on a pump and fill it. A sealed system with traces of sand and metal filings flowing around in coolant in constant contact with a rubber seal protecting a heavily loaded bearing. The average block is cleaned enough. some are not maybe because a clump of sand was stubborn in a hidden passage and it tears up that water pump. Maybe V blocks are more intricate castings and are harder to clear out. So 4 cyl's don't fail as many water pumps. Maybe Toyota cleans the blocks better because the employees only get to keep their jobs if they have good quality. Maybe UAW workers don't care about quality because they don't worry about losing their job because the union gets a guarantee of employment no matter what. Maybe the workers that are 2 or 3 contracts from retirement care more than that but what about the ones in their last contract? they are untouchable. No toyota worker is untouchable. The mindset has changed as the union and the big 3 shrink. maybe now more will go the extra mile and get that last piece of contaminant out of the block so sales will come back and they can stay in business. Will they work a free extra 10 minutes to double check a few blocks for the sake of satisfied customers 7 years later? Was it too late? Was the water pump rubber seal not tough enough to take a poorly cleaned block? I just take a simpler approach. I just put a $20-60 water pump on my GM van or truck once in it's lifetime and realize that I got a $5000 discount when I bought it new so I forgive the design weakness or assembly cleaning step done poorly that put me out $30 about 7 years later. The couple hours on a saturday are used up too. And then I get about 15 years out of the second pump because the contaminant is now flushed away. By the time I'm seeing the bottom rust out of the body after 20-25 years, the second pump is still going strong. Never kept a car loan beyond 19 months so a $30 water pump 5 years after the van is paid for is not going to make me run out and drop $1200 sales tax on a [non-permissible content removed] replacement so I dole out punishment to the company that gave me the $5000 discount.
Just found out that the $14.84 an hour that the new Greensburg, IN plant workers wil get to start does NOT include any health insurance. They will have to buy it themselves thru payroll deductions. That leaves maybe $8 an hour after taxes and insurance are taken out of their paychecks. We need a lot more of this kind of job in America. The best part is when a vast majority of the dollar value going out the door of the Honda factory in America goes through a wire to a bank or shareholder in Japan. For this the local Indiana economy gave Honda millions in incentives to settle there.
Engine blocks and cylinder heads are cast in a very unique sand and resin composite, called a 'core'. These cores are formed in an automated machine called a 'core shooter'. All of the material in this process is recycled and used again in the same way. There is no way 'traces of sand' will remain in the cast component, nor is there any way for the final machining of these components to contaminate. Even if there was a small piece of any material remaining in a cast component, they are inspected by a very specialized visual inspection tool before they are released for further assembly. This type of foundry technology isn't unique to GM. All of the automakers and suppliers of engine blocks or heads use the same technology.
Honda, like all the other automakers, is a public company. Profits flow to shareholders. Honda, like all public companies is owned by shareholders--individuals and institutional. There are as many or more Honda shareholders in the US and other industrialized countries around the world than in Japan. Money does NOT flow exclusively to banks or shareholders in Japan.
the quantity of shareholders in each country doesnt matter. It's the quantity of shares held by the few at the top in Japan that matters most. first of all, the top people throughout honda get theirs first. then they pay all their japanese employees and suppliers. then they pay the assemblers. then they buy back stock, then they pay dividends to shareholders, which primarily is an elite few.
This has been discussed before here(maybe a Toyota discussion?). I believe for a Japanese automaker such as Honda, the profit on a sale of a car is about 10%. So, if a car such as a Civic sells to the dealer for $20,000, $2,000 of that is profit. From that profit, they will reinvest part of it (in the US, like they are doing with the new plant, and elsewhere). For a car with a high North American parts content such as the Civic, the vast majority of the money stays in the US.
Sorry to tell you, but that view of how it works is completely incorrect. lls57's interpretation is the right one. However, believe what you wish. Besides, this thread is about the UAW, not Honda.
Big 3 are better today than they were in the 80s and 90s...but it seems that a bad taste takes a long time to leave your mouth...I would bet that there are more people out than you realize, who had bad experiences with Big 3 cars, maybe in the 80s and 90s, and simply had a better experience with an import
My experience exaclty. Since I got my DL in 1988, I've been through an even split between Japanese and Domestic. The domestic cars always left me with a bad taste in my mouth, I was always sad to see the Japanese cars go. My 84 Chevy Celebrity was a hunk of junk. At 80K, I had spent more on repairs than I had on the car.
My 88 Ford Taurus ran well, but the A/C was a fix every year ordeal, and it was as boring as a car could be. The body, trim, and accessories on my 99 Mustang were falling apart at 40K. Many of the problems I had were due to piss poor design.
My 95 Civic made it to 120K with no repairs. Loved it as much when I sold it as I did when I bought it. My 91 Mazda 929S was also an amazingly fun, trouble free vehicle. I'll be suprised if my 07 Civic Si gives me any less pleasure.
Detroit has pretty much lost me as a customer for life.
Absolutely!!! Amazing how the double standard allows companies to spend BILLIONS of dollars on lobbyists to to convince (read: PAY OFF) federal, state, and local govenments to give them subsidies and tax breaks and make laws that benefit them, yet if a UNION tries to do this, or threatens w/ a strike, we're seen as evil, anti American, anti Capitalist (how standing up for yourself to get the best deal is anti capitalist is BEYOND me???)and troublemakers.
I believe this comment from post 371 warrants a response from the union-bashers. Skimming through the posts, I don't think anyone has adequately addressed this point.
Why is it that Americans should have a "voice" in almost every situation EXCEPT in the work place????
Funny you should mention the 929S. Just the other day, a colleague mentioned how his 929 of that era was the best car he ever owned. Back in the day, I would have loved to have had a 90-91 929S in black with gold lower cladding. Or a 89-94 Nissan Maxima SE. Unfortunately, I was way too young and way too broke for either. ---------------------------
I have had good service from both domestic and foreign. I like individual cars, not car companies. Every time I pass a dealership service department, it seems they all have plenty of business. For a short while, I worked in the service department of a Toyota dealership owned by a distant relative as a mop the floor, do whatever peon during college circa 1994. They never lacked for business. I think the perceived "quality gap" is just that -- more perception than reality. For every story I have ever heard about domestic "junk", there is another equal complaint about a foreign brand.
I'm that way with sports teams to some degree. I follow the Manning boys, Carlos Boozer and Scott Gomez. Scotty went to the Rangers in July so now I'm a Rangers fan. I don't care what union he belongs to or who owns the team.
Anyone up for a Fantasy Car Company discussion? Say, draft 5 make/models and see how people like your lineup. Or score your company by sales or profits.
And I may add, getting a share in the action costs very little. There are many shareholders. Perhaps GM and the UAW should invest in Honda. They have little debt, and make a good solid profit each year. While nothing is certain, HMC is a pretty lean company, and not weighed down by tons of debt, so in the view of a common person, as I am not a pro in the analysis business, it looks more promising than most other car companies. That said, I am leery at the moment of the industry, and would not be buying any auto stock. That is IMHO. L
Well Americans are free to start their own business, and do as they may. When you are hired as a worker for a company, this is a totally different situation. Of course a line worker should give advice, but not every one of the suggestions can be used, or would be effective. And I may add, a thousand different ways to do one job would look more like chaos than a production line.
Yes, tax breaks should be for those companies which are employing here in the USA. And if Unions are lobbying for such legislation, that is a noble cause. L
>Maybe Toyota cleans the blocks better because the employees only get to keep their jobs if they have good quality.
Can you give me an example of a Toyota employee who has been fired because a part they handled or made had a problem? Who was fired for the Dundra camshafts? Camry sludging? The Camry transmissions with flare and hesitation problems this year?
Your statements made silly comments about unioon workers that doesn't even make sense along with you Toyo statements?
As Judge Judy would say (she gets paid a lot per episode: how do you feel about her? She makes more than UAW workers ever dreamed of?) if it doesn't make sense, it's not right.
That 929S was amazing. I got it second hand from my grandfather with 120K miles on it. The offered him so little for trade in, he gave it to me and I had it shipped. He had no problems other than an emissions sensor that seemed to go out on all 90's Mazda's.
It still drove like it did when he let me drive it when it was new. It was amazingly sporty for such a big car. Unfortunatly, I only got 6 months with it before it was flooded over the roof in a tropical storm in Houston.
He was a die hard Caddy man, but had to admit it was the best car he ever owned.
have you heard back from The Boeing Company concerning employment yet? I mention it because they are still going great guns and must meet some seriously strenuous delivery deadlines by the end of '07.
I'm really glad I didn't go back...Boeing is a nuthouse at times and crack the whip times to go faster can be really frustrating at a huge employer like Boeing.
But, thought I'd mention ya because you love unions and if you go to work with a wrench in your hand in a mechanical position you'd be an IAM member. If you go to work in an office engineering position you'd be a member of SPEEA(Seattle Professional Engineering Employees Association). Give 'em a ring back...I'm in another field now or I'd consider it, but you might find something there quite to your liking, man.
I wish ya the best whatever happens in your search, rockford!
It's honestly been what 3 weeks now since I registered on the Boeing site and I haven't been back their since then.
I guess this week I should give the website a look. I guess I've been looking more locally than nationally. I'm going to go apply for a couple jobs tommorow. One in car sales, another as a material handler. There are a few other jobs I "X-ed" in the job section of today's paper but I need to find out more info about em'.
Yeah I read through that article and it's "link" and it was a very interesting read. As I said before in the past nobody in the media posts what Toyota, workers make per hour when they start and I've heard the $27 per hour wage as a top out. Well they at least last year got a large enough bonus which was equivalent of like getting $3.00 extra which put them above the $30.00 hour mark. :surprise:
So I guess the wage/benefit gap with this two-tier will have new UAW workers making less money in pay/benefits than Toyota workers. :surprise:
I also find it amazing how Honda, is able to get away with paying $14 and change an hour. :surprise:
Absolutely!!! Amazing how the double standard allows companies to spend BILLIONS of dollars on lobbyists to to convince (read: PAY OFF) federal, state, and local govenments to give them subsidies and tax breaks and make laws that benefit them, yet if a UNION tries to do this, or threatens w/ a strike, we're seen as evil, anti American, anti Capitalist (how standing up for yourself to get the best deal is anti capitalist is BEYOND me???)and troublemakers.
I believe this comment from post 371 warrants a response from the union-bashers. Skimming through the posts, I don't think anyone has adequately addressed this point.
Who said it was OK when companies pay loads of money for favors from the government? Or is it just that if we can't stop them, we should turn a blind eye when the union tries to do it too?
Standing up for yourself to get the best deal isn't anti-capitalist, but bribing people and intentionally blocking/stifling competition is, whether it is done by corporations or by individuals.
I read a statistic recently that said if GM would go back to the 60s, where the top executive salary was "just" 20x more than the average worker, they would turn that $1,500 loss per vehicle into a $1,000 profit.
It wouldn't be a $1,000 profit even then. Because (Still, GM made $2,123 less per vehicle than Toyota in 2006.)
Seems you guys come down on the union guys pretty good for putting the American auto makers in the position they're in. Along with the salaries management makes. But as you know, high salary for CEO's is not limited to the auto industry and many of the benefits union workers got from their employer, came before the big foreign invasion of products. Strikes against them are very costly, especially if they drag on.
But the Japanese had big advantages against the American manufactures right from the get go. They came in and got big discounts on land from cities and counties that were willing to sell cheap to bring them in. They also gave them big tax deductions. They hired younger workers and at the time were non union and paid much less than American workers. They didn't have to pay for retiree's pensions, or retiree health insurance. Since they were younger and new workers, they got cheaper health insurance rates and didn't have to pay out 4 and 5 week vacations for their workers. Also since the plants were new, they were more modern and could be run by fewer employees. So as you can see, American manufactures were at huge disadvantages over foreign. Disadvantages they couldn't make up for even if the CEO's wages and employee's benefits were cut.
So yes, it made it next to impossible to put millions in R/D, t o come out with new engines and trannies. To make it worse, because of the quality gap at that time, they had to cut prices to be competitive, even though they would lose on the vehicles.
Trouble now, many still think American manufactures put out a much more inferior car/van and refuse to try American products again. Even though quality between to two is closer than it's ever been and better than European vehicles.
That is what has helped drive up our trade deficit, lowered the value of our dollar and put hundreds of thousands of Americans out of work.
Reading your comments, is pretty clear you are hard wired to an 'anti corporate' bias. I'm not saying that's bad, but it is definitely a one sided view. Lobbyists work for whoever pays the bills, and labor organizations like the UAW and others use lobbyists to promote their issues too. Ask any politician about 'labor support' they consistently solicit--especially at election time. As I've said before, I'm not against Unions. They do serve a purpose in today's world, and they are a fact of life whether you like it or not. But don't overlook that what you said about "bribing people and intentionally blocking/stifling competition" is a common practice in the world of trade unionism too. All you need to do to recognize this is read the news almost every day---and especially these days when big three negotiations are under way. I agree "Standing up for yourself to get the best deal isn't anti-capitalist". Nevertheless, at what point is this 'enough' of a 'best deal'--and is 'bribing people' or 'intentionally blocking competition' when the union is threatening a strike? I often ask myself if these union leaders really understand the concept of 'how much do you really need' as opposed to always demandingr 'more'. Truth be told, that philosophy of 'more' is what got us all into the current economic mess we're in now. When will it ever change? Like the link posted by Pf flyer, above---"Here we go again!"
The word 'change' reminds me of a story. Someone once asked a union exec: "How many people are needed to change a light bulb ?" The union exec responded by asking: "Change ???"
Blackwater probably does all its recruiting from the mafia, drug cartels, and institutions for the criminally insane anyway.
I understand it takes a lot of auto sales experience to get a sales job at one of the luxury auto makers. I tried many years ago to get my foot in the door at Cadillac when I was quite young, but they wanted a guy with at least 15 years of experience. I'd try Saturn just to get your feet wet and see if auto sales is for you.
If I was Rocky looking for a job in car sales, I would go to a big dealership that sells Hyundai. It is reported they pay the highest commission. Our big local Ford dealer sells VW and Hyundai. With sales you either have it or don't. Not everyone can put up with meeting customers every day, most of which you would not want to have lunch with.
Very well said. We got blind sided hard, but have been making a strong comeback since. I am even considering an American built/owned car for the first time in 25 years. The quality difference is very small, and sometimes nonexistent.
I would say, sell what you believe in. If he dislikes Hyundais, I doubt that would be a positive for selling them. Best to find a store with but a few sales people. At one time, the local Cadillac / Olds store had but three salesmen. That way they actually made a good living. Nowadays, it seems like they have an army of sales people and no one individual is going to have as much success. If a store has less than eight in sales, it may be something to consider. Of course the number of salespeople would differ in larger cities, but really now, they must have twenty to thirty at some stores. Ever try to sneak on to a lot, only to have a salesperson pop out of a trunk of a car. I swear they do that. :surprise: . L
I believe you will find out that Blackwater hires mostly veterans (not criminal veterans). A lot of our servicemen take the job when they are discharged because of the high pay scale.
My apologies for drifting off topic, but here's what I think applies in Rocky's situation:... First, a candidate must realize there's hardly such thing as 'the perfect job'. It's extremely rare to find one, where the candidate is satisfied completely, and every expectation is met. Second, every job is a compromise between one's own values and those of the employer. Third, and perhaps most important, any candidate must accept that it 'isn't what he expects from the employer', it's more 'what the employer expects from him'. The onus of demonstrating that is more on the candidate, not the employer. My feeling is that Rocky perhaps expects too much the other way.
Well I went to a Steel company today an applied for a material handler's job. (I have prior experience) I swear lemko, applicants were coming out of the wood work pal.(I was their for an hour and lost count at 22) I had to take a test while standing up with about a dozen people stuffed in a entry way of a office and for some odd reason we weren't allowed to go outside. :sick: It was so hot, humid, stuffy, uncomfortable, I felt like a disrespected sardine.
I read the application and was shocked to learn that this company would test for tobacco. :surprise: Pre-employment screening and random tobacco tests were part of the requirements of the job thus meaning I could not smoke another cigar, or enjoy a pinch of copenhagen. I was like you guys might have the right to request I don't use tobacco products while on company property but just what in the hell gives you the right to "control" what I do using a legal substance on my own time ????? :mad: It was a $14.05 to start an hour job which is decent for a shoddy economy here in Western Michigan, in a recession. However, I will not give up my right to privacy to any employer or as I call em' the S.S. :surprise:
On a softer note I called a local Ford, dealership on a sales job they had in the paper. I talked to the sales manager on the phone and he was really cool and asked me to come down and fill out a application. He also told me I would be called for a interview perhaps later this week. So I filled out the application and submited a couple of resumes and now I wait.
I also found a couple of jobs I'm going to apply for on the Michigan Works, website. Alot of new jobs for some odd reason turned up today. I applied for a operators job at a chemical company this evening. So life goes on and hopefully very soon a decent offer will turn up.
UAW-Chrysler news:
So it's Wednesday at noon for the UAW-Chrysler, deadline I heard this evening on our local news. :surprise: Well hopefully a deal will be reached soon. Well imidazol97, put me down for October 12th a deal will be reached.
for Big Daddy Boeing's, rockford. Trouble is, you'd have to move to Seattle and I might even prefer western Michigan to living in the Seattle metro-area ever again. Yikes. Depression is a way of life for Pacific NW-sterners, oh yes is it. Prozac Capital of the U.S. Glen Beck can tell you all about it-he comes from Seattle as well. No...rock, persevere and you'll find work you like there in Michigan, man.
BTW-there is news that this sort of thing, that is, testing employees for tobacco, even stopping people from eating what they want, is brewing in corporate law offices and board rooms. Keep a watch out for it, the ACLU is gonna gang tackle all over this one. The idea being that companies can hog-tie you in to being more healthy so that they don't end up having you lose so much work time and also to help reduce America's enormous corporate health care cost juggernaut somewhat.
If I was Rocky looking for a job in car sales, I would go to a big dealership that sells Hyundai. It is reported they pay the highest commission.
Is that across the board or just in your locality ????? I will let you and Loren, both know that I first of all would much prefer to sell GM, but lately their hasn't been any open sales positions for GM, dealerships unless you have prior experience. I think Hyundai, would be a great product to sell. The Genesis, will be a red hot seller and it is union made.
Well if you have a link gagrice, I'd like to see it pal. I read Hyundai, is dumping tons of money into their training program. I suppose I should check em' out if they are in fact the best commission payers.
So Chrysler, only has 10 U.S. plants left here in the U.S. or am I reading that wrong. I hope the UAW, plays hard ball and get's some of those Mexican made Chrysler, products back here in the U.S. for a exchange of the two-tiered wage system. I'm also a little surprised they aren't sold on VEBA. :surprise:
Keep a watch out for it, the ACLU is gonna gang tackle all over this one. The idea being that companies can hog-tie you in to being more healthy so that they don't end up having you lose so much work time and also to help reduce America's enormous corporate health care cost juggernaut somewhat.
I was shocked iluv. I'd rather hire a tobacco user than some up tight complusive eating 800 lbs Gorilla. They can't discriminate against people who over eat but boy have a pinch of Copenhagen or a Cigar, and your fired !!!! :confuse: :mad:
This issue is becoming more common at least around here. Our govenor is a "sin tax" [non-permissible content removed], and is very against tobacco and alcohol. It's amamzing as she is from Canada, and those folks enjoy smoking and drinking like Europeans. I agree with you iluv, and think some of these employer's and insurance company's need to feel the blade of the ACLU. Perhaps this invasion of privacy, might be enough to give birth to a new union movement.
A test for tobacco? Geeze, where the heck are they going to find an applicant as most guys I knew when I worked in an industrial setting smoked! Good God, what's next? A test for McDonald's? "Sorry, you're highly skilled and definately qualified for the job, but you're a Big Mac junkie. Lola Granola over there can't lift more than 10 lbs. and has absolutely no experience, but she gets the job because she neither smokes or eats junk food."
Hey, if you do get that Ford dealership job, keep us posted of your experiences in the "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" forum under "Smart Shopper."
I was shocked iluv. I'd rather hire a tobacco user than some up tight complusive eating 800 lbs Gorilla. They can't discriminate against people who over eat but boy have a pinch of Copenhagen or a Cigar, and your fired !!!!
It is not that uncommon. I just read an article where the health care system in the UK refused to treat a smoker. Said it was a hazard to his health and they would not treat him. Kind of a catch 22. The government takes in lots of tax on tobacco and they want to keep people from smoking. Kind of like the hybrid cars in CA. One group encourages buying them the tax collectors don't like it because it cuts into the gas tax.
I think they probably would not hire someone that is over weight either.
I am surprised that you cannot understand this...health care costs are, supposedly, going thru the roof, and tobacco use offers NO known health benefits, even if a true causal link to cancer cannot be proven...
So, by eliminating tobacco users, drug users, drunks, etc, a company stands a good chance of having better control over its health insurance costs than a company that hires the above-mentioned "sinners"...
Just because you use tobacco on your own time, you will still affect the health care costs of your employer...
I think I understand you, finally...you think that workers have all the rights they want to do anything they want, and employers have no rights at all...welcome to the real world...employers have every right to discriminate aginst tobacco users, alcoholics, overweight, etc., as it can be directly linked to increase costs and higher absenteeism...
As I have mentioned to Rocky in the past. British Petroleum and the other oil companies with facilities in Prudhoe Bay Alaska, have zero tolerance on alcohol and drugs while in Prudhoe Bay. It extends from the time you check in at the BP counter in the Anchorage airport until you get off the plane on your return to Anchorage. That is usually 1 week to 6 weeks without a beer. I knew one fellow that went to work on the commercial flight and stuck a small wine bottle in his carry-on. Some how they found it in his room and he was escorted to the plane and his personal belongings were shipped home to him. Needless to say he was out of his $100k per year job. It is a total dictatorship that you sign on to follow the rules. You don't, you are fired.
As you have mentioned smoking affects the companies insurance costs. I remember being asked by the RCA doctor when I hired on in 1970 if I was a smoker. I would not hire a smoker just because of the smoke breaks they require.
As I mentioned earlier. It is going to be lower pay and harder labor for those in the lower tiers. Get a trade like plumber, welder or electrician and you may be in a living wage bracket. That is if you do not have a degree in one of the needed fields. Nursing and engineering being a good place to consider.
"employers have every right to discriminate aginst tobacco users, alcoholics, overweight, etc"
When interviewing for a position in my business I avoided unattractive applicants who were smokers,boozers, fatties, gummers, self important, & trouble makers.
Thus MY business attracted the quality of clientele who would be as problem free as possible & it was NOT a tavern.
fintail: I wonder how many of these businesses are controlled by fat boozing old men munching on overpriced cigars.
Probably not too many, as the combined effect of the booze, cigars and clogged arteries sends most people of this type to an early grave.
fintail: Not to mention those who hold the most stock...
Which would be the merry widows of said (deceased) fat boozing old men, who are now hanging out with the pilates instructor and spending those dividends on Caribbean cruises.
Well, these guys can get a good 60-70 years in before reality catches up. Heck, boozing Bill Wirtz made it to nearly 80. I wonder if he would have implemented such politicies for his inherited little empire.
I suspect widows are not majority stockholders. I see a lot of fat aging men in ultra high end cars around here...
"But honestly everyone I talk to says the same thing a Bachelor's degree is nothing more than a glorified high school diploma."
shows how much respect you have for a college degree.
Lou, I think a point could be made that in THIS day and age, considering all the technological advancements we have, that a Bachelor's degree today may be the equivalent of a HS diploma 50 yrs ago. In other words, 50 yrs ago a HS diploma would've gotten you a good paying job that you could raise a family on, whereas today you NEED a BS to get that entry level position at a company. I guess you could say that the education has been devalued as time goes by, just like the dollar's buying power has eroded over those same 50 yrs from inflation.
I forgot the gum chewers (disgusting habit, if you ask me, right behind the worst of all, chewing tobacco) and the trouble makers (union-ites in the making)...
Like it or not, the boss may be the overweight guy, but he or she is the one paying your premiums, and regardless of the hypocrisy involved, the owner of the company gets special privileges...
If you work for the company, you follow company rules...if you don't like it, work somewhere else or start your own company...
That is the problem with rabble rousers, and why companies are leaving the country...they actually think they have rights to do anything they want, regardless of the cost to the company, and expect the company to quietly absorb those costs w/o any attempt to control the behavior that causes the costs to rise...
Discrimination is a good thing, weeding out the worthless, useless and shiftless, and those who add on costs simply by their bad habits...we do not need smokers, the slovenly dressed, droolers, tobacco chewers, gum chewers (while a lower class thing to pop gum in front of others at work, doing it at home is not a compnay problem...alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs are a problem...if you do them at home, like it or not, your work performance suffers...)
Is this the nanny state???...I think not, it is simply a company seeking the best employees with the best work habits, and those who drink, smoke, and chew tobacco simply will NOT have the best work habits, because of the inevitable higher cost for health care and health insurance, and the smoke breaks they always seem to need, and, quite frankly, they just aren't worth the hassle...
And, these workers will never comprehend why no one wants them...it IS your right to smoke, drink, and do drugs, but not if you expect to work for me...take your rights and get a job elsewhere, cuz your do NOT have the right to work for me, but I DO have the right to can your buns out the front door...
Comments
The special training I've received while working at Pantex, is running a little thin on jobs unless I wanted to work for Blackwater, and we have all seen lately just how much trouble those folks are in. :surprise: I've been promised a job at the Casino, by my father's Indian friend when it's built and tonight I found out the Nuke plant is goingto do another round of hiring in January, and rumor has it the contractor will be gone along with it's politics.
So I'm still very optomistic in this shakey economy here in Western, Michigan.
-Rocky
P.S. Good night as well Loren, from the Great Lake State. :shades:
Second opinion
I'm a different case in that way. When I was 17 we had a lot of family up at the house and at one point it was time to take my grandmother home. I was chosen as driver and the last car in the driveway was my uncle's Opel. I became hopelessly hooked on small, good handling cars.
That said, the vast majority of the folks that jumped ship did so reluctantly and were stunned at the difference and never looked back. Getting those folks is going to be a tough nut to crack.
All of the material in this process is recycled and used again in the same way.
There is no way 'traces of sand' will remain in the cast component, nor is there any way for the final machining of these components to contaminate.
Even if there was a small piece of any material remaining in a cast component, they are inspected by a very specialized visual inspection tool before they are released for further assembly.
This type of foundry technology isn't unique to GM. All of the automakers and suppliers of engine blocks or heads use the same technology.
Honda, like all public companies is owned by shareholders--individuals and institutional.
There are as many or more Honda shareholders in the US and other industrialized countries around the world than in Japan.
Money does NOT flow exclusively to banks or shareholders in Japan.
$14.84
Starting hourly wage at Honda in 2008 (about $31,000 a year). Worth noting: Honda workers will pay nothing for health insurance.
link title
the quantity of shareholders in each country doesnt matter. It's the quantity of shares held by the few at the top in Japan that matters most. first of all, the top people throughout honda get theirs first. then they pay all their japanese employees and suppliers. then they pay the assemblers. then they buy back stock, then they pay dividends to shareholders, which primarily is an elite few.
lls57's interpretation is the right one.
However, believe what you wish.
Besides, this thread is about the UAW, not Honda.
My experience exaclty. Since I got my DL in 1988, I've been through an even split between Japanese and Domestic. The domestic cars always left me with a bad taste in my mouth, I was always sad to see the Japanese cars go. My 84 Chevy Celebrity was a hunk of junk. At 80K, I had spent more on repairs than I had on the car.
My 88 Ford Taurus ran well, but the A/C was a fix every year ordeal, and it was as boring as a car could be. The body, trim, and accessories on my 99 Mustang were falling apart at 40K. Many of the problems I had were due to piss poor design.
My 95 Civic made it to 120K with no repairs. Loved it as much when I sold it as I did when I bought it. My 91 Mazda 929S was also an amazingly fun, trouble free vehicle. I'll be suprised if my 07 Civic Si gives me any less pleasure.
Detroit has pretty much lost me as a customer for life.
I believe this comment from post 371 warrants a response from the union-bashers. Skimming through the posts, I don't think anyone has adequately addressed this point.
Why is it that Americans should have a "voice" in almost every situation EXCEPT in the work place????
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I have had good service from both domestic and foreign. I like individual cars, not car companies. Every time I pass a dealership service department, it seems they all have plenty of business. For a short while, I worked in the service department of a Toyota dealership owned by a distant relative as a mop the floor, do whatever peon during college circa 1994. They never lacked for business. I think the perceived "quality gap" is just that -- more perception than reality. For every story I have ever heard about domestic "junk", there is another equal complaint about a foreign brand.
I'm that way with sports teams to some degree. I follow the Manning boys, Carlos Boozer and Scott Gomez. Scotty went to the Rangers in July so now I'm a Rangers fan. I don't care what union he belongs to or who owns the team.
Anyone up for a Fantasy Car Company discussion? Say, draft 5 make/models and see how people like your lineup. Or score your company by sales or profits.
Yes, tax breaks should be for those companies which are employing here in the USA. And if Unions are lobbying for such legislation, that is a noble cause. L
Can you give me an example of a Toyota employee who has been fired because a part they handled or made had a problem? Who was fired for the Dundra camshafts? Camry sludging? The Camry transmissions with flare and hesitation problems this year?
Your statements made silly comments about unioon workers that doesn't even make sense along with you Toyo statements?
As Judge Judy would say (she gets paid a lot per episode: how do you feel about her? She makes more than UAW workers ever dreamed of?) if it doesn't make sense, it's not right.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It still drove like it did when he let me drive it when it was new. It was amazingly sporty for such a big car. Unfortunatly, I only got 6 months with it before it was flooded over the roof in a tropical storm in Houston.
He was a die hard Caddy man, but had to admit it was the best car he ever owned.
I'm really glad I didn't go back...Boeing is a nuthouse at times and crack the whip times to go faster can be really frustrating at a huge employer like Boeing.
But, thought I'd mention ya because you love unions and if you go to work with a wrench in your hand in a mechanical position you'd be an IAM member. If you go to work in an office engineering position you'd be a member of SPEEA(Seattle Professional Engineering Employees Association). Give 'em a ring back...I'm in another field now or I'd consider it, but you might find something there quite to your liking, man.
I wish ya the best whatever happens in your search, rockford!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It's honestly been what 3 weeks now since I registered on the Boeing site and I haven't been back their since then.
I guess this week I should give the website a look. I guess I've been looking more locally than nationally. I'm going to go apply for a couple jobs tommorow. One in car sales, another as a material handler. There are a few other jobs I "X-ed" in the job section of today's paper but I need to find out more info about em'.
I appreciate your kindness iluv.
-Rocky
So I guess the wage/benefit gap with this two-tier will have new UAW workers making less money in pay/benefits than Toyota workers. :surprise:
I also find it amazing how Honda, is able to get away with paying $14 and change an hour. :surprise:
-Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
I believe this comment from post 371 warrants a response from the union-bashers. Skimming through the posts, I don't think anyone has adequately addressed this point.
Who said it was OK when companies pay loads of money for favors from the government? Or is it just that if we can't stop them, we should turn a blind eye when the union tries to do it too?
Standing up for yourself to get the best deal isn't anti-capitalist, but bribing people and intentionally blocking/stifling competition is, whether it is done by corporations or by individuals.
It wouldn't be a $1,000 profit even then. Because (Still, GM made $2,123 less per vehicle than Toyota in 2006.)
Seems you guys come down on the union guys pretty good for putting the American auto makers in the position they're in. Along with the salaries management makes. But as you know, high salary for CEO's is not limited to the auto industry and many of the benefits union workers got from their employer, came before the big foreign invasion of products. Strikes against them are very costly, especially if they drag on.
But the Japanese had big advantages against the American manufactures right from the get go. They came in and got big discounts on land from cities and counties that were willing to sell cheap to bring them in. They also gave them big tax deductions. They hired younger workers and at the time were non union and paid much less than American workers. They didn't have to pay for retiree's pensions, or retiree health insurance. Since they were younger and new workers, they got cheaper health insurance rates and didn't have to pay out 4 and 5 week vacations for their workers. Also since the plants were new, they were more modern and could be run by fewer employees. So as you can see, American manufactures were at huge disadvantages over foreign. Disadvantages they couldn't make up for even if the CEO's wages and employee's benefits were cut.
So yes, it made it next to impossible to put millions in R/D, t o come out with new engines and trannies. To make it worse, because of the quality gap at that time, they had to cut prices to be competitive, even though they would lose on the vehicles.
Trouble now, many still think American manufactures put out a much more inferior car/van and refuse to try American products again. Even though quality between to two is closer than it's ever been and better than European vehicles.
That is what has helped drive up our trade deficit, lowered the value of our dollar and put hundreds of thousands of Americans out of work.
Here We Go Again
I'm not saying that's bad, but it is definitely a one sided view.
Lobbyists work for whoever pays the bills, and labor organizations like the UAW and others use lobbyists to promote their issues too.
Ask any politician about 'labor support' they consistently solicit--especially at election time.
As I've said before, I'm not against Unions. They do serve a purpose in today's world, and they are a fact of life whether you like it or not.
But don't overlook that what you said about "bribing people and intentionally blocking/stifling competition" is a common practice in the world of trade unionism too.
All you need to do to recognize this is read the news almost every day---and especially these days when big three negotiations are under way.
I agree "Standing up for yourself to get the best deal isn't anti-capitalist".
Nevertheless, at what point is this 'enough' of a 'best deal'--and is 'bribing people' or 'intentionally blocking competition' when the union is threatening a strike?
I often ask myself if these union leaders really understand the concept of 'how much do you really need' as opposed to always demandingr 'more'.
Truth be told, that philosophy of 'more' is what got us all into the current economic mess we're in now.
When will it ever change?
Like the link posted by Pf flyer, above---"Here we go again!"
The word 'change' reminds me of a story.
Someone once asked a union exec: "How many people are needed to change a light bulb ?"
The union exec responded by asking: "Change ???"
I understand it takes a lot of auto sales experience to get a sales job at one of the luxury auto makers. I tried many years ago to get my foot in the door at Cadillac when I was quite young, but they wanted a guy with at least 15 years of experience. I'd try Saturn just to get your feet wet and see if auto sales is for you.
First, a candidate must realize there's hardly such thing as 'the perfect job'.
It's extremely rare to find one, where the candidate is satisfied completely, and every expectation is met.
Second, every job is a compromise between one's own values and those of the employer.
Third, and perhaps most important, any candidate must accept that it 'isn't what he expects from the employer', it's more 'what the employer expects from him'. The onus of demonstrating that is more on the candidate, not the employer.
My feeling is that Rocky perhaps expects too much the other way.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article
I swear lemko, applicants were coming out of the wood work pal.(I was their for an hour and lost count at 22) I had to take a test while standing up with about a dozen people stuffed in a entry way of a office and for some odd reason we weren't allowed to go outside. :sick: It was so hot, humid, stuffy, uncomfortable, I felt like a disrespected sardine.
I read the application and was shocked to learn that this company would test for tobacco. :surprise: Pre-employment screening and random tobacco tests were part of the requirements of the job thus meaning I could not smoke another cigar, or enjoy a pinch of copenhagen. I was like you guys might have the right to request I don't use tobacco products while on company property but just what in the hell gives you the right to "control" what I do using a legal substance on my own time ????? :mad: It was a $14.05 to start an hour job which is decent for a shoddy economy here in Western Michigan, in a recession. However, I will not give up my right to privacy to any employer or as I call em' the S.S. :surprise:
On a softer note I called a local Ford, dealership on a sales job they had in the paper. I talked to the sales manager on the phone and he was really cool and asked me to come down and fill out a application. He also told me I would be called for a interview perhaps later this week.
So I filled out the application and submited a couple of resumes and now I wait.
I also found a couple of jobs I'm going to apply for on the Michigan Works, website. Alot of new jobs for some odd reason turned up today. I applied for a operators job at a chemical company this evening. So life goes on and hopefully very soon a decent offer will turn up.
UAW-Chrysler news:
So it's Wednesday at noon for the UAW-Chrysler, deadline I heard this evening on our local news. :surprise: Well hopefully a deal will be reached soon. Well imidazol97, put me down for October 12th a deal will be reached.
-Rocky
P.S. Thanks guys for your concern
BTW-there is news that this sort of thing, that is, testing employees for tobacco, even stopping people from eating what they want, is brewing in corporate law offices and board rooms. Keep a watch out for it, the ACLU is gonna gang tackle all over this one. The idea being that companies can hog-tie you in to being more healthy so that they don't end up having you lose so much work time and also to help reduce America's enormous corporate health care cost juggernaut somewhat.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Is that across the board or just in your locality ?????
I will let you and Loren, both know that I first of all would much prefer to sell GM, but lately their hasn't been any open sales positions for GM, dealerships unless you have prior experience. I think Hyundai, would be a great product to sell. The Genesis, will be a red hot seller and it is union made.
Well if you have a link gagrice, I'd like to see it pal. I read Hyundai, is dumping tons of money into their training program. I suppose I should check em' out if they are in fact the best commission payers.
Well another UAW story from USA Today
UAW sets deadline on Chrysler contract settlement
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-10-08-auto-talks_N.htm?csp=34
So Chrysler, only has 10 U.S. plants left here in the U.S. or am I reading that wrong. I hope the UAW, plays hard ball and get's some of those Mexican made Chrysler, products back here in the U.S. for a exchange of the two-tiered wage system. I'm also a little surprised they aren't sold on VEBA. :surprise:
-Rocky
I was shocked iluv. I'd rather hire a tobacco user than some up tight complusive eating 800 lbs Gorilla. They can't discriminate against people who over eat but boy have a pinch of Copenhagen or a Cigar, and your fired !!!! :confuse: :mad:
This issue is becoming more common at least around here. Our govenor is a "sin tax" [non-permissible content removed], and is very against tobacco and alcohol. It's amamzing as she is from Canada, and those folks enjoy smoking and drinking like Europeans. I agree with you iluv, and think some of these employer's and insurance company's need to feel the blade of the ACLU. Perhaps this invasion of privacy, might be enough to give birth to a new union movement.
-Rocky
Hey, if you do get that Ford dealership job, keep us posted of your experiences in the "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" forum under "Smart Shopper."
It is not that uncommon. I just read an article where the health care system in the UK refused to treat a smoker. Said it was a hazard to his health and they would not treat him. Kind of a catch 22. The government takes in lots of tax on tobacco and they want to keep people from smoking. Kind of like the hybrid cars in CA. One group encourages buying them the tax collectors don't like it because it cuts into the gas tax.
I think they probably would not hire someone that is over weight either.
So, by eliminating tobacco users, drug users, drunks, etc, a company stands a good chance of having better control over its health insurance costs than a company that hires the above-mentioned "sinners"...
Just because you use tobacco on your own time, you will still affect the health care costs of your employer...
I think I understand you, finally...you think that workers have all the rights they want to do anything they want, and employers have no rights at all...welcome to the real world...employers have every right to discriminate aginst tobacco users, alcoholics, overweight, etc., as it can be directly linked to increase costs and higher absenteeism...
Get over it...
As you have mentioned smoking affects the companies insurance costs. I remember being asked by the RCA doctor when I hired on in 1970 if I was a smoker. I would not hire a smoker just because of the smoke breaks they require.
As I mentioned earlier. It is going to be lower pay and harder labor for those in the lower tiers. Get a trade like plumber, welder or electrician and you may be in a living wage bracket. That is if you do not have a degree in one of the needed fields. Nursing and engineering being a good place to consider.
When interviewing for a position in my business I avoided unattractive applicants who were smokers,boozers, fatties, gummers, self important, & trouble makers.
Thus MY business attracted the quality of clientele who would be as problem free as possible & it was NOT a tavern.
Not to mention those who hold the most stock...
Those who cast the first stone, or something like that
Probably not too many, as the combined effect of the booze, cigars and clogged arteries sends most people of this type to an early grave.
fintail: Not to mention those who hold the most stock...
Which would be the merry widows of said (deceased) fat boozing old men, who are now hanging out with the pilates instructor and spending those dividends on Caribbean cruises.
I suspect widows are not majority stockholders. I see a lot of fat aging men in ultra high end cars around here...
shows how much respect you have for a college degree.
Lou, I think a point could be made that in THIS day and age, considering all the technological advancements we have, that a Bachelor's degree today may be the equivalent of a HS diploma 50 yrs ago.
In other words, 50 yrs ago a HS diploma would've gotten you a good paying job that you could raise a family on, whereas today you NEED a BS to get that entry level position at a company. I guess you could say that the education has been devalued as time goes by, just like the dollar's buying power has eroded over those same 50 yrs from inflation.
Like it or not, the boss may be the overweight guy, but he or she is the one paying your premiums, and regardless of the hypocrisy involved, the owner of the company gets special privileges...
If you work for the company, you follow company rules...if you don't like it, work somewhere else or start your own company...
That is the problem with rabble rousers, and why companies are leaving the country...they actually think they have rights to do anything they want, regardless of the cost to the company, and expect the company to quietly absorb those costs w/o any attempt to control the behavior that causes the costs to rise...
Discrimination is a good thing, weeding out the worthless, useless and shiftless, and those who add on costs simply by their bad habits...we do not need smokers, the slovenly dressed, droolers, tobacco chewers, gum chewers (while a lower class thing to pop gum in front of others at work, doing it at home is not a compnay problem...alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs are a problem...if you do them at home, like it or not, your work performance suffers...)
Is this the nanny state???...I think not, it is simply a company seeking the best employees with the best work habits, and those who drink, smoke, and chew tobacco simply will NOT have the best work habits, because of the inevitable higher cost for health care and health insurance, and the smoke breaks they always seem to need, and, quite frankly, they just aren't worth the hassle...
And, these workers will never comprehend why no one wants them...it IS your right to smoke, drink, and do drugs, but not if you expect to work for me...take your rights and get a job elsewhere, cuz your do NOT have the right to work for me, but I DO have the right to can your buns out the front door...