Honda doesn't want to employ US citizens at Greensburg who might have been UAW members or might have be proUAW even though they come from a much more capable education system in the US. They'd rather employ people from school systems that are lesser in expectations in the more rural areas and discriminate against those who are better and more open-minded thinkers.
Have I summarized our foray into education backgrounds well?
...discriminating against hiring smokers, drinkers, drug users, and the overweight because they feel their lifestyles will cause their health insurance costs to rise, how long will it be before they discrimanate against people with children because they cost more to insure than a single person or people whose spouse is carried on their healthcare? What if the person applying is in good health, but his wife has diabetes? Maybe they'll think gays are not cost effective to hire because employers will consider theirs a risky lifestyle?
I guess the ideal candidate for employment will be as follows:
A celibate, single, heterosexual, non-union, childless, non-smoking, teetotaler.
Oh, oh! You wanna get married? Better get a vasectomy because we can't risk you having any children and we better have your potential wife checked out to to make sure she meets all our standards.
imidazol97: They'd rather employ people from school systems that are lesser in expectations in the more rural areas and discriminate against those who are better and more open-minded thinkers.
I guess that is why GM located its Saturn plant...in rural Tennesseee. The company must have wanted to employ a bunch of dummies who wouldn't ask too many questions.
Interestingly, I don't recall many complaints about the quality of Saturns when the plant first opened (that came later, when GM decided it needed to be brought "under the GM umbrella" and operated more like those plants in the industrial Midwest, staffed by those more "open-minded" workers).
Judging by the consistently good quality ratings earned by Honda products, it's apparent that the company knows what it is doing, even with those ignorant, non-union dullards putting the vehicles together.
I'm sure that if GM were actually building new plants instead of closing old ones (or, at least, not moving as much production out of the U.S. as it possibly can), it would follow a similar strategy.
While I'm sure your wife is a actually a teacher and You know much more about education in the Pennsylvania area than I do, I doubt you know much, if anything, about education in the portion of Indiana involved here.
I find your usual tactic of responding to any post I make with a post implying your knowledge is always higher offensive. I've asked you many times not to respond to my posts since you disagree and you stated that you'd post because you're always going to correct my errors. If I stated the sky were gray you'd disagree; blue, you'd disagree.
I usually skip your posts for that reason but happened to read this one. :shades: :sick:
So please just skip my posts as I do yours. I'd appreciate that courtesy. Have a good day. :shades:
Still my simple question remains unanswered - What do Unions do for the Big 3?
Your question is easily answered. I've posted on edmunds several links over the last couple of years showing union factory's are the most productive, Win awards for having the highest quality, etc, etc, There are several links on the net that are independent studies, and statics from the U.S. Dept. of Labor.
I do not believe for one minute that these insurance company's will lower rates or freeze them because a whole company doesn't use tobacco or alcohol. I believe only a complete fool would buy that theory. The same theory was used when they use to tell UAW, workers that if they made the car in Mexico, they would sell it for thousands less. Well some very expensive $60+K automobiles come from Mexico, and I thought the primary reason was to lower MSRP's.
It' just like the basketball shoes being made in foreign factories for pennies. Did you see the prices go down as the last US company moved their production?
The reality is the management salaries and parachutes billowed wide open--blue skies ahead for our retirements they were thinking.
Honda (and Toyota) want a MORE educated worker in their plants than the typical UAW member. Under their system, workers are expected to assume responsibility for quality and take proactive steps if something is wrong (i.e, stop the line if there is a quality problem).
That has nothing to do with being "educated." :confuse: That is complete propaganda grbeck. The bottom line is they want people to be "Yes Sir's" and follow direction and not have an opinion or speak their mind. They want a mindless sheep who does not question anything their boss says. There boss could tell them to go jump of a cliff. "Anything for my company"
"Maybe they'll think gays are not cost effective to hire because employers will consider theirs a risky lifestyle?"
Non celebate homosexuals are not cost effective because of their chosen risky lifestyle. They are an exceptional burden to the medical plan and HR people avoid them whenever they can.
By the way, I would love to see the outcome of that multi-billion dollar discrimination law suit that you are going to file against Honda. Hopefully through that Honda will re-enforce its belief that stay away from UAW is a really really good idea...
If I was the right color I'd have Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson on it !!!!!
It's not like you are looking forward to buy a Honda anyway.
Experience rating credits will lower the medical premiums after a few years so hiring a group of the highest moral standards does impact the rates favorably. So, believe it.
Experience rating credits will lower the medical premiums after a few years so hiring a group of the highest moral standards does impact the rates favorably. So, believe it.
I don't buy it.
I would not work for any employer that controls it's people like that so I won't have to worry about it. This will come back to bite employers. Some of your best people are smoker's and drinker's. They are relaxed and not up tight. The next thing will be coffee, because it's a stimulant. Then alcohol, then what you eat, and before long it will be who you sleep with and what religion you are.
The one world government "The Mark of the Beast" is in full swing and some of you support this behavior. :surprise:
The United Auto Workers said Wednesday that its landmark labor agreement with General Motors Corp. was ratified by rank-and-file workers.
The deal was approved by 66 percent of GM production workers and 64 percent of skilled trades workers, the union said in a statement. The contract takes effect on Monday.
UAW President Ron Gettelfinger gave union locals until Wednesday to hold membership votes on the deal, reached Sept. 26 after a two-day national strike against GM.
"We entered these negotiations with a clear mandate from our membership," Gettelfinger said in the statement. "We protected jobs, wages and benefits for both active and retired General Motors workers -- and we helped protect middle-class manufacturing jobs in communities throughout the United States."
The approval comes despite tough concessions, including a two-tier wage system that pays workers in non-core automotive jobs as little as $14 an hour -- about half the average pay of an hourly worker.
The deal's big sellers, according to several local union leaders interviewed Wednesday, appeared to be a provision that permanently hires thousands of temporary workers and dozens of specific commitments that GM made to keep plants open. The automaker committed products to 16 assembly plants and about two dozen other factories nationwide.
The contract also includes the creation of a company-financed, union-run trust to pay for health care for hourly retirees. GM will pay the union about $35 billion to offload $50 billion in retiree obligations to the union.
GM must get federal regulatory approval to create the trust, called a voluntary employees' beneficiary association, or VEBA.
GM said in a statement that it must file a report with the Securities and Exchange Commission outlining its plan for the trust within four business days. It will explain the deal to Wall Street analysts and the media in a telephone conference on Monday. "We are very pleased that our UAW-represented employees have ratified the new labor contract," GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said in a statement.
He thanked Gettelfinger and UAW Vice President Cal Rapson, the union's chief GM negotiator, as well as members of the GM and UAW bargaining teams.
Wagoner acknowledged "their hard work in reaching an innovative agreement that effectively addresses the needs of our employees and retirees, while providing a basis for improved competitiveness that will support future U.S. investments."
The deal was voted down by workers in at least a half-dozen union locals across the country out of more 80 GM facilities with UAW-represented workers in the United States.
Ratification required only a simple majority.
The UAW reached a tentative agreement with Chrysler LLC on Wednesday following a brief strike at most of the automaker's U.S. factories.
Steve said 66% pf_flyer said 64% UAW doesn't give a weighted average over all voters. Instead they say line workers were at 66% and skill trades were at 64%. Because the numbers of each are not equal (I assume), the two averages can't be averaged to determine the average of the whole set of data.
Are there more line workers or more skilled trades? Does anyone have a summary that says of total worker numbers this was the percentage? Otherwise we are making CR like assumptions and averaging rounded numbers.
Does anyone have an idea of the relative number of line workers to skilled trades workers?
I don't know if you watch the TV show "The Office" but I think if companies eliminate all the drinkers, smokers, and others, they'll end up with nothing but a bunch of Dwight Schrutes and Angelas.
Most large companies are self-insured. They only pay, for example, Blue Cross, to administer the claims. So if their annual medical costs drop due to lower claims (from a healthier workforce), the can, if not lower premiums, reduce the rate of increase.
That's why so many companies are turning to "consumer driven health plans" (CDHPs). They are trying to modify behavior to make their employees healthier. Healthy employees cost the company a lot less than not-so-healthy employees. It's an indisputable fact, that on average, smokers and heavy drinkers have more health issues than non-smokers and responsible drinkers.
imidazol97: While I'm sure your wife is a actually a teacher and You know much more about education in the Pennsylvania area than I do, I doubt you know much, if anything, about education in the portion of Indiana involved here.
I recall that you regularly refer to the fact that your wife is a teacher to bolster your posts dealing with education issues, so I certainly didn't think that you would object if I did as well.
If anything, I thought that you would appreciate what we have in common.
The problem is that your characterization of the education level of Indiana residents is irrelevant to how they will actually work if employed in the Honda plant. Honda uses a variation of the Total Quality Management (TQM) system, which, in combination with just-in-time inventory methods, is revolutionizing automobile manufacturing the U.S.
The system used by Honda (and Toyota) results in higher efficiency, greater employee satisfaction, a lower defect rate, a more efficient use of labor, and more careful attention to customer satisfaction. This is borne out by academic studies and Consumer Reports reliability surveys.
The simple fact is that those hired by Honda, despite your apparently low opinion of their education and intellect, will do just fine, because the transplants' way of doing business is superior to that employed by the Big Three and the UAW. The transplants do a better job of managing and growing their human capital.
imidazol97: I find your usual tactic of responding to any post I make with a post implying your knowledge is always higher offensive.
Do you not think that someone from that section Indiana would find your characterization of them as easily led fools uneducated enough to settle for lower pay at the Honda factory to be more than slightly offensive? Let him who is without sin...
imidazol97: I've asked you many times not to respond to my posts since you disagree and you stated that you'd post because you're always going to correct my errors.
A better tactic might would be to not make posts containing any erroneous information or offensive characterizations in the first place, given as how I will continue to respond to whatever posts I please.
rockylee: That has nothing to do with being "educated." That is complete propaganda grbeck. The bottom line is they want people to be "Yes Sir's" and follow direction and not have an opinion or speak their mind. They want a mindless sheep who does not question anything their boss says. There boss could tell them to go jump of a cliff. "Anything for my company"
Someone is being influenced by propaganda here, and it's not me.
Honda and Toyota screen their employees much more rigorously than the Big Three have, largely because they expect said employees to take a more proactive role in maintaining vehicle quality. This is changing at the Big Three, but they are battling an entrenched management culture and a suspicious union.
rockylee: The bottom line is they want people to be "Yes Sir's" and follow direction and not have an opinion or speak their mind. They want a mindless sheep who does not question anything their boss says. There boss could tell them to go jump of a cliff. "Anything for my company"
Yes, that is how the UAW operates, and how Big Three management have operated, but not every large organization is the same.
As for your contention that union operated plants have a higher productivity rating than non-union plants: first, I would like to see something besides union sources, which little or no credibility.
Second, if we limit our plants to the automotive industry, most of those plants that score well - such as the NUMMI plant or Oshawa - are either operated by the hated Japanese (NUMMI) or produce one type of vehicle on an ancient platform (W-bodies at Oshawa).
The simple fact is that the domestics have lagged in their implementation of TQM. They are trying, but their baggage hampers them.
That's why so many companies are turning to "consumer driven health plans" (CDHPs). They are trying to modify behavior to make their employees healthier. Healthy employees cost the company a lot less than not-so-healthy employees. It's an indisputable fact, that on average, smokers and heavy drinkers have more health issues than non-smokers and responsible drinkers.
This issue is under development but is not at the point where all companies everywhere are currently discriminating those who oversmoke, drink, toot, toke, etc., but just keep an eye on your local, state and national newssources. It will be driven to become more and more important because, if nothing else, companies have to watch that magnificent bottom line.
I've already seen what a zoo a seemingly respectable company like The Boeing Company can become if Airbus seems to be codgering an edge on them. They start sweating in to their Starbuck's cups and dropping their gloppy raspberry donuts all over their boardroom tables. Money is king so if they are introduced with a healthy save money on health insurance plan they will embrace it.
To insist on some minimum-requirement new employee hiring policies that encourage or, here is the ACLU part, require healthy lifestyles, is an employers right. Isn't it?
Who's paying the bills where you work? If they say jump off a trampoline in to a heated swimming pool and wear t-shirts that say "Leave Britney Alone!" then we must comply, huh? I can't wait to see this one unfold, yikes.
The bottom line is they want people to be "Yes Sir's" and follow direction and not have an opinion or speak their mind.
And what do you have against that? I would rather have a supervisor that was cognizant of what the job entailed and demanded a good work ethic, than some dweeb that was unable to tell a good worker from a bad one. Having an opinion and speaking your mind when you are disagreeing with a boss can end in your being unemployed. That is the way things are in the real world.
Giving up tobacco for a good job seems like a no-brainer to me. In states like CA it is getting more and more difficult to find a spot to light up. New CA law: no smoking in your car when minors are present. Most of the beaches and any park with children are off limits to smokers.
You have to decide what you are willing to give up for the job you want. Life is full of compromises. Are you willing to work 18 hours a day as you say Rick Waggoner works? I imagine he did that most of his career to get where he is at.
>A better tactic might would be to not make posts containing any erroneous information or offensive characterizations in the first place, given as how I will continue to respond to whatever posts I please.
Even though you are the one who is wrong?
Most people with breeding would stop when someone requests they not respond to their posts in a harrassing manner. Have a good day.
I know I probably should stay out of this but I really want to say something...
People have to realize that you are posting in a PUBLIC FORUM, so whether you like it or not other people have freedom to reply the post. Also, in replying your post sometimes the other person is NOT TALKING TO YOU specifically. It could be in the purpose of setting the record straight so other members wouldn't get misinformation. That's what we are here for, share information about auto industry and make sure our fellow car enthusiasts don't get wrong information.
If one has problem with that then the best solution is to post in his/her own private blog.
imidazol97: Even though you are the one who is wrong?
If I'm incorrect about how the Total Quality Management (TQM) used by Honda brings out the capabilities of all workers, and how it is superior to the systems currently used by the Big Three, please show me where a credible source says so.
I will certainly consider it.
imidazol97: Most people with breeding would stop when someone requests they not respond to their posts in a harrassing manner. Have a good day.
People with "good breeding" wouldn't post this, as you did earlier in this thread:
"They'd rather employ people from school systems that are lesser in expectations in the more rural areas and discriminate against those who are better and more open-minded thinkers." (emphasis added)
As I said, let him who is without sin...
Pointing out errors (last time I checked, Honda seemed to be doing quite well with its rural plants, judging by the quality of its vehicles, and Saturn was initially a quality success for GM, even with all of those workers from rural Tennessee) or less-than-flattering characterizations of others in posts does not constitute "harrassment."
Noone has come up with numbers for the line workers to skilled trades who voted. I'll assume that the number of line workers is significantly greater than skilled trades and would give an average above 65% even considering possible rounding having been used to get the 66% and 64% numbers.
"...no smoking in your car when minors are present"
Good God, my parents would be on death row if this law was enacted in Pennsylvania in the 1970s. It looked like Pittsburgh circa 1955 inside that '72 Ford LTD when my family was traveling down the road.
Imadazol97, that gentleman is definitely NOT wrong!!!! What he outlined is EXACTLY what's happening in much of manufacturing today. The old paradigm is history.. You really need to (must!!) do a whole lot more research before condemning what you did. Rest assured, after doing the homework, next time you won't reject it so offhandedly. Even the UAW hierarchy begrudgingly accepts those practices as a fact of life these days---they just haven't admitted it publicly yet.
You missed the nice bump yesterday, but any strike will just ease inventory. Ford will get a VEBA too and that'll help their costs. They are 18 months away from getting sales turned around but Mullally is doing good and they'll sell Land Rover/Jag for some cash one day soon, and keep 20% that will turn into a nice little cash flow for them as well.
Usual (big fat) disclaimers, but if Jim Cramer can run at the mouth without paying the piper, so can I. :P
Oh, and if the UAW doesn't pull a Caterpillar and waste the VEBA dough in a decade, I think they "won" this round of contract talks handily.
"... if the UAW doesn't pull a Caterpillar and waste the VEBA dough in a decade.."
Did they really? Wasn't aware of that. It should be obvious that the UAW won't be able to continue the no contribution, no deductible policy in the future. No other industry has that kind of insurance, even the large Tier 1 suppliers to the "Big 3."
Personally, if those writing today's poor quality sitcoms would get off the funny smokes and drugs, perhaps we would have something to watch. Precious little to watch on TV period. Of course it could be that it is not the mind altering substances, but lack of talent. Either way, hate to be an employer today.
As for The Office, the characters seem to have some talent. The show I would rather not say. - L
"A hard-fought contract deal hammered out between Caterpillar and the UAW in 1998 also included a VEBA trust funded by $32.3 million the UAW had set aside in special training and overtime accounts.
That trust, however, was depleted in just six years."
The life of the VEBA will depend on whether the union leadership and members recognize that there's no more free lunch. Since our congress hasn't been able to do that with a membership that, on average, is arguably smarter than the UAW membership (no slight intended), it seems unlikely. It's all part of the entitlement mentality we have in this country today.
This article detailing injuries and medical records and being unemployed if injured at Honda (and Toyota mentioned) indicates why Honda is so neurotic about only employing from the more "rural" of SE Indiana and avoiding some areas of Indiana.
Still my simple question remains unanswered - What do Unions do for the Big 3?
Your question is easily answered. I've posted on edmunds several links over the last couple of years showing union factory's are the most productive, Win awards for having the highest quality, etc, etc, There are several links on the net that are independent studies, and statics from the U.S. Dept. of Labor.
And Unions are totally responsible for this no doubt!!! Don't make me laugh too much here, the few Big 3 domestic plants that make the list are usually building ancient automobiles like the Towncar (same chasis for 3 decades) or were recently heavily invested in by the manufactures. Having been in some of these plants don't impress me at all.
>And Unions are totally responsible for this no doubt!!!
And I'm waiting for your opinion of who is responsible for that. I promise not to laugh at your answers.
I toured the GM assembly plant nearby. I saw people working at a smoothly rapid pace. I didn't see anyone sleeping. I didn't see anyone appearing drunk or disabled by chemicals.
Comments
Have I summarized our foray into education backgrounds well?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess the ideal candidate for employment will be as follows:
A celibate, single, heterosexual, non-union, childless, non-smoking, teetotaler.
Oh, oh! You wanna get married? Better get a vasectomy because we can't risk you having any children and we better have your potential wife checked out to to make sure she meets all our standards.
For which we should all be glad. Those countries are benefiting from rising standards of living.
I guess that is why GM located its Saturn plant...in rural Tennesseee. The company must have wanted to employ a bunch of dummies who wouldn't ask too many questions.
Interestingly, I don't recall many complaints about the quality of Saturns when the plant first opened (that came later, when GM decided it needed to be brought "under the GM umbrella" and operated more like those plants in the industrial Midwest, staffed by those more "open-minded" workers).
Judging by the consistently good quality ratings earned by Honda products, it's apparent that the company knows what it is doing, even with those ignorant, non-union dullards putting the vehicles together.
I'm sure that if GM were actually building new plants instead of closing old ones (or, at least, not moving as much production out of the U.S. as it possibly can), it would follow a similar strategy.
I find your usual tactic of responding to any post I make with a post implying your knowledge is always higher offensive. I've asked you many times not to respond to my posts since you disagree and you stated that you'd post because you're always going to correct my errors. If I stated the sky were gray you'd disagree; blue, you'd disagree.
I usually skip your posts for that reason but happened to read this one. :shades: :sick:
So please just skip my posts as I do yours. I'd appreciate that courtesy. Have a good day. :shades:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
to feed more fear into yourself, I suggest you rent the movie "gattaca"
Your question is easily answered. I've posted on edmunds several links over the last couple of years showing union factory's are the most productive, Win awards for having the highest quality, etc, etc,
-Rocky
I do not believe for one minute that these insurance company's will lower rates or freeze them because a whole company doesn't use tobacco or alcohol. I believe only a complete fool would buy that theory. The same theory was used when they use to tell UAW, workers that if they made the car in Mexico, they would sell it for thousands less. Well some very expensive $60+K automobiles come from Mexico, and I thought the primary reason was to lower MSRP's.
I just clinch my fist when I hear these lies !!!!
-Rocky
The reality is the management salaries and parachutes billowed wide open--blue skies ahead for our retirements they were thinking.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That has nothing to do with being "educated." :confuse: That is complete propaganda grbeck. The bottom line is they want people to be "Yes Sir's" and follow direction and not have an opinion or speak their mind. They want a mindless sheep who does not question anything their boss says. There boss could tell them to go jump of a cliff. "Anything for my company"
-Rocky
-Rocky
Non celebate homosexuals are not cost effective because of their chosen risky lifestyle. They are an exceptional burden to the medical plan and HR people avoid them whenever they can.
Or employees who are out sleeping around or does Honda, provide their mindless sheep with "non-union made" condoms?
Seriously, is this the direction we are headed in this country ???? :sick:
-Rocky
If I was the right color I'd have Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson on it !!!!!
It's not like you are looking forward to buy a Honda anyway.
I would of considered a Honda weed whack er.
-Rocky
I don't buy it.
I would not work for any employer that controls it's people like that so I won't have to worry about it.
This will come back to bite employers. Some of your best people are smoker's and drinker's. They are relaxed and not up tight. The next thing will be coffee, because it's a stimulant. Then alcohol, then what you eat, and before long it will be who you sleep with and what religion you are.
The one world government "The Mark of the Beast" is in full swing and some of you support this behavior. :surprise:
-Rocky
The United Auto Workers said Wednesday that its landmark labor agreement with General Motors Corp. was ratified by rank-and-file workers.
The deal was approved by 66 percent of GM production workers and 64 percent of skilled trades workers, the union said in a statement. The contract takes effect on Monday.
UAW President Ron Gettelfinger gave union locals until Wednesday to hold membership votes on the deal, reached Sept. 26 after a two-day national strike against GM.
"We entered these negotiations with a clear mandate from our membership," Gettelfinger said in the statement. "We protected jobs, wages and benefits for both active and retired General Motors workers -- and we helped protect middle-class manufacturing jobs in communities throughout the United States."
The approval comes despite tough concessions, including a two-tier wage system that pays workers in non-core automotive jobs as little as $14 an hour -- about half the average pay of an hourly worker.
The deal's big sellers, according to several local union leaders interviewed Wednesday, appeared to be a provision that permanently hires thousands of temporary workers and dozens of specific commitments that GM made to keep plants open. The automaker committed products to 16 assembly plants and about two dozen other factories nationwide.
The contract also includes the creation of a company-financed, union-run trust to pay for health care for hourly retirees. GM will pay the union about $35 billion to offload $50 billion in retiree obligations to the union.
GM must get federal regulatory approval to create the trust, called a voluntary employees' beneficiary association, or VEBA.
GM said in a statement that it must file a report with the Securities and Exchange Commission outlining its plan for the trust within four business days. It will explain the deal to Wall Street analysts and the media in a telephone conference on Monday. "We are very pleased that our UAW-represented employees have ratified the new labor contract," GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said in a statement.
He thanked Gettelfinger and UAW Vice President Cal Rapson, the union's chief GM negotiator, as well as members of the GM and UAW bargaining teams.
Wagoner acknowledged "their hard work in reaching an innovative agreement that effectively addresses the needs of our employees and retirees, while providing a basis for improved competitiveness that will support future U.S. investments."
The deal was voted down by workers in at least a half-dozen union locals across the country out of more 80 GM facilities with UAW-represented workers in the United States.
Ratification required only a simple majority.
The UAW reached a tentative agreement with Chrysler LLC on Wednesday following a brief strike at most of the automaker's U.S. factories.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071011/AUTO01/710110344/1148- - /rss25
-Rocky
Does the Bob Barker rule still apply?
You will have to ask imidazol97, since it was his pool.
-Rocky
Steve said 66%
pf_flyer said 64%
UAW doesn't give a weighted average over all voters. Instead they say line workers were at 66% and skill trades were at 64%. Because the numbers of each are not equal (I assume), the two averages can't be averaged to determine the average of the whole set of data.
Are there more line workers or more skilled trades?
Does anyone have a summary that says of total worker numbers this was the percentage? Otherwise we are making CR like assumptions and averaging rounded numbers.
Does anyone have an idea of the relative number of line workers to skilled trades workers?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Sure, they're reliable! Look at how well they worked in India and China!"
That's why so many companies are turning to "consumer driven health plans" (CDHPs). They are trying to modify behavior to make their employees healthier. Healthy employees cost the company a lot less than not-so-healthy employees. It's an indisputable fact, that on average, smokers and heavy drinkers have more health issues than non-smokers and responsible drinkers.
Steve overbid. That makes sneakers the winner!
On to Chrysler...
I recall that you regularly refer to the fact that your wife is a teacher to bolster your posts dealing with education issues, so I certainly didn't think that you would object if I did as well.
If anything, I thought that you would appreciate what we have in common.
The problem is that your characterization of the education level of Indiana residents is irrelevant to how they will actually work if employed in the Honda plant. Honda uses a variation of the Total Quality Management (TQM) system, which, in combination with just-in-time inventory methods, is revolutionizing automobile manufacturing the U.S.
The system used by Honda (and Toyota) results in higher efficiency, greater employee satisfaction, a lower defect rate, a more efficient use of labor, and more careful attention to customer satisfaction. This is borne out by academic studies and Consumer Reports reliability surveys.
The simple fact is that those hired by Honda, despite your apparently low opinion of their education and intellect, will do just fine, because the transplants' way of doing business is superior to that employed by the Big Three and the UAW. The transplants do a better job of managing and growing their human capital.
imidazol97: I find your usual tactic of responding to any post I make with a post implying your knowledge is always higher offensive.
Do you not think that someone from that section Indiana would find your characterization of them as easily led fools uneducated enough to settle for lower pay at the Honda factory to be more than slightly offensive? Let him who is without sin...
imidazol97: I've asked you many times not to respond to my posts since you disagree and you stated that you'd post because you're always going to correct my errors.
A better tactic might would be to not make posts containing any erroneous information or offensive characterizations in the first place, given as how I will continue to respond to whatever posts I please.
Someone is being influenced by propaganda here, and it's not me.
Honda and Toyota screen their employees much more rigorously than the Big Three have, largely because they expect said employees to take a more proactive role in maintaining vehicle quality. This is changing at the Big Three, but they are battling an entrenched management culture and a suspicious union.
rockylee: The bottom line is they want people to be "Yes Sir's" and follow direction and not have an opinion or speak their mind. They want a mindless sheep who does not question anything their boss says. There boss could tell them to go jump of a cliff. "Anything for my company"
Yes, that is how the UAW operates, and how Big Three management have operated, but not every large organization is the same.
As for your contention that union operated plants have a higher productivity rating than non-union plants: first, I would like to see something besides union sources, which little or no credibility.
Second, if we limit our plants to the automotive industry, most of those plants that score well - such as the NUMMI plant or Oshawa - are either operated by the hated Japanese (NUMMI) or produce one type of vehicle on an ancient platform (W-bodies at Oshawa).
The simple fact is that the domestics have lagged in their implementation of TQM. They are trying, but their baggage hampers them.
This issue is under development but is not at the point where all companies everywhere are currently discriminating those who oversmoke, drink, toot, toke, etc., but just keep an eye on your local, state and national newssources. It will be driven to become more and more important because, if nothing else, companies have to watch that magnificent bottom line.
I've already seen what a zoo a seemingly respectable company like The Boeing Company can become if Airbus seems to be codgering an edge on them. They start sweating in to their Starbuck's cups and dropping their gloppy raspberry donuts all over their boardroom tables. Money is king so if they are introduced with a healthy save money on health insurance plan they will embrace it.
To insist on some minimum-requirement new employee hiring policies that encourage or, here is the ACLU part, require healthy lifestyles, is an employers right. Isn't it?
Who's paying the bills where you work? If they say jump off a trampoline in to a heated swimming pool and wear t-shirts that say "Leave Britney Alone!" then we must comply, huh? I can't wait to see this one unfold, yikes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And what do you have against that? I would rather have a supervisor that was cognizant of what the job entailed and demanded a good work ethic, than some dweeb that was unable to tell a good worker from a bad one. Having an opinion and speaking your mind when you are disagreeing with a boss can end in your being unemployed. That is the way things are in the real world.
Giving up tobacco for a good job seems like a no-brainer to me. In states like CA it is getting more and more difficult to find a spot to light up. New CA law: no smoking in your car when minors are present. Most of the beaches and any park with children are off limits to smokers.
You have to decide what you are willing to give up for the job you want. Life is full of compromises. Are you willing to work 18 hours a day as you say Rick Waggoner works? I imagine he did that most of his career to get where he is at.
Even though you are the one who is wrong?
Most people with breeding would stop when someone requests they not respond to their posts in a harrassing manner. Have a good day.
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People have to realize that you are posting in a PUBLIC FORUM, so whether you like it or not other people have freedom to reply the post. Also, in replying your post sometimes the other person is NOT TALKING TO YOU specifically. It could be in the purpose of setting the record straight so other members wouldn't get misinformation. That's what we are here for, share information about auto industry and make sure our fellow car enthusiasts don't get wrong information.
If one has problem with that then the best solution is to post in his/her own private blog.
If I'm incorrect about how the Total Quality Management (TQM) used by Honda brings out the capabilities of all workers, and how it is superior to the systems currently used by the Big Three, please show me where a credible source says so.
I will certainly consider it.
imidazol97: Most people with breeding would stop when someone requests they not respond to their posts in a harrassing manner. Have a good day.
People with "good breeding" wouldn't post this, as you did earlier in this thread:
"They'd rather employ people from school systems that are lesser in expectations in the more rural areas and discriminate against those who are better and more open-minded thinkers." (emphasis added)
As I said, let him who is without sin...
Pointing out errors (last time I checked, Honda seemed to be doing quite well with its rural plants, judging by the quality of its vehicles, and Saturn was initially a quality success for GM, even with all of those workers from rural Tennessee) or less-than-flattering characterizations of others in posts does not constitute "harrassment."
Steve wins the "I Love Edmunds" T-shirt.
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Good God, my parents would be on death row if this law was enacted in Pennsylvania in the 1970s. It looked like Pittsburgh circa 1955 inside that '72 Ford LTD when my family was traveling down the road.
I hate it when I get more popular votes but Bob wins the election. Next they'll give him a durn Nobel Prize for yo-yo-ing or something. :P
What he outlined is EXACTLY what's happening in much of manufacturing today. The old paradigm is history..
You really need to (must!!) do a whole lot more research before condemning what you did.
Rest assured, after doing the homework, next time you won't reject it so offhandedly.
Even the UAW hierarchy begrudgingly accepts those practices as a fact of life these days---they just haven't admitted it publicly yet.
What's going to come with the Ford negotiations?
Strike? or no Strike?
More or fewer concessions from Ford or from UAW?
Myself I'm surprised that two short strikes were executed but essentially the UAW gave what they needed to give to keep as many jobs as possible.
:confuse:
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You missed the nice bump yesterday, but any strike will just ease inventory. Ford will get a VEBA too and that'll help their costs. They are 18 months away from getting sales turned around but Mullally is doing good and they'll sell Land Rover/Jag for some cash one day soon, and keep 20% that will turn into a nice little cash flow for them as well.
Usual (big fat) disclaimers, but if Jim Cramer can run at the mouth without paying the piper, so can I. :P
Oh, and if the UAW doesn't pull a Caterpillar and waste the VEBA dough in a decade, I think they "won" this round of contract talks handily.
Did they really? Wasn't aware of that. It should be obvious that the UAW won't be able to continue the no contribution, no deductible policy in the future. No other industry has that kind of insurance, even the large Tier 1 suppliers to the "Big 3."
As for The Office, the characters seem to have some talent. The show I would rather not say. - L
"A hard-fought contract deal hammered out between Caterpillar and the UAW in 1998 also included a VEBA trust funded by $32.3 million the UAW had set aside in special training and overtime accounts.
That trust, however, was depleted in just six years."
Caterpillar workers skeptical of tentative UAW-GM deal (AOL News)
GM is funding most of this VEBA.
Auto Union and Honda Dispute Safety Record at Plants in Ohio
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Your question is easily answered. I've posted on edmunds several links over the last couple of years showing union factory's are the most productive, Win awards for having the highest quality, etc, etc, There are several links on the net that are independent studies, and statics from the U.S. Dept. of Labor.
And Unions are totally responsible for this no doubt!!! Don't make me laugh too much here, the few Big 3 domestic plants that make the list are usually building ancient automobiles like the Towncar (same chasis for 3 decades) or were recently heavily invested in by the manufactures. Having been in some of these plants don't impress me at all.
And I'm waiting for your opinion of who is responsible for that. I promise not to laugh at your answers.
I toured the GM assembly plant nearby. I saw people working at a smoothly rapid pace. I didn't see anyone sleeping. I didn't see anyone appearing drunk or disabled by chemicals.
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