>cross a picket line and if you did you would end up floating face down in some river. Agreed. Most unions will do that and that is called being a gangster, not a worker. This is probably the biggest reason I hate the labor unions. They simply go for the kill if you cross them.
>The company owner would of never paid the rent or mortgage without the people under he/she. It's called a balance of power. Own a business first Rocky and then talk about balance of power.....It is not easy to be a business owner. Machining a job to 10 microns might be easier.
Own a business first Rocky and then talk about balance of power.....It is not easy to be a business owner. Machining a job to 10 microns might be easier.
That's for sure. A friend of mine owns a small machine shop with about 30 employees. He's pretty much crapping bricks right now with slow business and his bank lowering his credit line. The few jobs he's getting are taking a long time to get paid and he's borrowing money to make payroll. He doesn't want to let anyone go. Not all company owners are out to screw their employees.
Super Bowl 40, played in Detroit, on February 5, 2006. Biggest crappily-reffed-to-gain-illegal-winning's game in Super Bowl history. The Seahawks were easily the better team, were dominating everybody they played at that time, and Rothelschild, smily round-faced Hines Ward and all lapped that stuff up like it was Jim Beam at a neighborhood AA meeting. In case you're wondering why I respond like that about this game Super Bowl 40, it's because the ref's did everything they could to help the Stealers steal the game unethically. Guess what?
They got their kick-back! Stealers 21, Seahawks 10. The Stealers are the biggest bunch of dorks in sports, it would take a butt-load of illegal betting and buy-off-able ref's to help them win a Super Bowl caliber game. Funny thing what money, power and greed can combine to give you, huh?
In August 2007 the government recalled 20,594 Buick Rendezvous, Chevrolet Venture, Pontiac Aztec and Montana, all from the 2002 to 2004 model years because the fuel tank check valve could fracture, presenting a fire hazard.
Oh, c'mon! Any car can have a few drops of gasoline leak. Usually it just evaporates harmlessly! I'm sure Hondas and Toyotas do that too.
You keep drinking that Kool-Aid flip77. I know you will have lots of people who will agree with you on this forum but the reality is if there was no UAW threat you guys would be making not $30 an/hr. but more like $12-$15 and in this horrible economy Toyota, would have thousands of applicants waiting for those jobs to become open. I think someday that reality will sit in with you. I've worked mostly non-union jobs in my life and there is a difference of respect. In a non-union shop your opinion can be voiced but it might cost you your job. In a union shop you can voice your opinion to get something done and you have the support of your union backing you if management doesn't like what you have to say. Unless you have a fantastic brown nosing type relationship with your boss you are powerless to make change.
I'm not trying to be negative with my tone but am speaking from experience. I was shown the door for giving my opinion a few weeks ago with no recourse. :sick:
I guess I just haven't lived right. I had a 3800 with 150K on it and didn't notice any atypical leak. I have one with 165K on it and don't have a leak.
I guess it is not. It's a cleaner motor than the Toyota motors a neighbor who curbstones gets. He had one 4-cyl that was a blown head gasket and 10 years old. Bought it from the owner who didn't seem to know they blow heads. That junk doesn't last. Neighbor does have a cleaner motor now but that's because the 4-runner had a blown motor. So the replacement motor is cleaner. I told him it probably blew because of sludge. Those junk things just don't last no matter how the Toyfans try to spread their propaganda.
I've got a 3800 with 90K and don't have any leakage around the valve covers. The UAW does a good job with quality parts. If the leaks are a problem it's the fault of the suppliers providing the gaskets that were used. AT least GM does recalls instead of hiding problems as TSBs or telling people they're supposed to run that way!!!
Let's say you are completely correct. The J3 engines are "junk things". The GM cars and engines are great. Given that the public perception is very anti-GM and the UAW is in serious trouble given the current situation, what should the UAW do? Is it important for them to have some positive perception outside their own group, or does that not matter? Do you think UAW sympathizers saying that people who try to feed their families who aren't union could be "floating down the river" is something that is going to help? Is our perception that the UAW is a bunch of thugs with high costs and low value incorrect?
Because even if you are correct, the market has spoken and GM is never going to be what it was. Hopefully it will become smaller but much better.
Go watch those playoffs a few times and you will see the refs give MJ every call. Now it's Kobe, who gets em' all. I think out of all the major professional sports that basketball is more like the WWE (WWF) then any other sport. They show his (MJ) famous shot quite a bit....Ya know the one where he pushed Bryon Russell off of him and hit the game winning jumper. Remember that also was in the era where the refs bet on the games more often than Pete Rose. :mad: MJ was a good basketball player but because he had a huge contract with the slave labor company Nike and could dunk the basketball a half foot in front of the free-throw line well they needed a hero that was bigger than life because the NBA was on a down hill slope. I think Magic Johnson was a very good basketball player but not as good as Stockton. Both Stockton and Malone were tough, sometimes dirty, smart players. There accomplishments speak for themselves. Yeah they didn't win a ring but they didn't have that superstar 3rd player like the Bulls. Remember Pippen was arguably the best defensive player to ever play. Why do you think Phil Jackson put him on Stockton????
Do you think UAW sympathizers saying that people who try to feed their families who aren't union could be "floating down the river" is something that is going to help?
I never said that UAW members would do that but in some parts of the country that has happened and over in Europe it has and would still happen. In most 1st world countries where workers have "rights" unlike here in this anti-labor/worker enviroment it is illegal to cross picket lines. I know the neocon globalist want you to believe the capitalist have your best interests for you and your family at heart but the reality "proof in the pudding" tells a different story.
I know Marsha7, thinks I'm a brain dead Yankee because I care about working people. I know he thinks I'm stupid because I care about my countries national security being sold down the river so some fat cat can make another buck. However I know I'm one of the few but very proud americans that cares about the future of this country. You can call the UAW workers all kinds of names and run them through the mud all you want but at the end of the day those folks are among this countries most patriotic citizens and instead of cutting down their neighbor like many of you enjoy doing they want to build them up. They want us to live the american dream and our nation to prosper. They are tired of the double standard for the elites and the serfs. :sick:
Maybe someday when it's too late many of you will realize that this "Brave New World" you support was a mistake.
the last stealer sb was almost as bad with crooked refs...i know someone from seattle who was pretty ripped about seahawk loss...i dont think the hawks played that great, but they easily couldve won..the nfl likes dan rooney
They still haven't made a decision. I called the HR lady this afternoon and instead of her telling me you weren't picked like I thought I was going to hear well they are still in the decision process. She apologized for it taking so long. I told her I'm just glad I'm still in the running. My ex g/f and I are trying to improve my resume and make it more professional thus I spent the day working on that and applying for a few more jobs. I spoke with Beth again this evening and she says dealer traffic has been very slow this month which is depressing for her. I personally think people are waiting to see how this BK thing is going to play out. I turned down my old bosses offer to sell security systems door 2 door thus he isn't happy with me cause I didn't take the job. The commission was good if you sold enough of them but it was a pyramid scheme. I did door 2 door sales last summer for 3 months selling AT&T U-verse when I saw the writing on the wall at the Chevy dealership I worked at with Beth. I had all sorts of problems getting paid and I lost a few thousand bucks in commissions on pending deals because of AT&T and when they finally went through I never got paid on them. This was despite I resolving many of there customer service issues myself. That was my thank-you. They also cut our commission structure by 30% and it wasn't paying the bills anymore. I believe AT&T U-verse (cable) is a helluva a lot easier sale than a Security System. I think even my opposition on most issues can agree with me on that.
my buddy has 2 cavaliers (98 and 99) that he doesnt maintain and cars still run...one has 160k and other has 180k...the latter i sold to him...engine doesnt burn oil...i change for him every 8-10k or so cuz i know he never would...right now he is traveling 550 miles a week..my neighbor has a 1983 ford f150 with bulletproof 300 straight six
Even worse is someone posting it as another negative against the UAW on this thread or another way to smear GM. I'd suspect most engines have some seepage of oil around the gasket material at 75K.
I wonder if people post the recalls or should-be recalls on HoToy's threads on here?
yeah, that 3.8L v6 gm made was actually one of the good engines gm built. oil dripping on exhaust can cause fire... they probably never would have admitted this and are only doing so because they are filing for bankruptcy. I live in detroit metro area and they have been running foreign subcompact crash tests over & over. they crash camry into yaris, accord into fit, smart car into some other midsized sedan. Is this an attempt to smear foreign manufacturers safety cause I noticed they didn't crash an aveo into a malibu? When safety is of concerned, size really does matter. Just like a f350 would be no match to a semi truck&trailer.
Re comment on scabs floating face down in a river - now who would do this nasty deed? The same type that would ask their fellow workers to "voluntarily" sign a Card Check form approving a union?
Re 55 Buick, 57 Cad and other old junk, obsolete cars and wishing to live in that past. May get your wish with Obama loosening travel for certain folks to Cuba. Maybe within next year, he will loosen more and then anyone can move to Cuba and buy and drive (kind of) old junk cars.
Re leaks on GM 3.8 causing fires and fault of suppliers who provided the gaskets - And, who is responsible for picking, qualifying gasket suppliers, checking their quality ongoing, incoming inspection for specifications, etc? Would that be GM?
So, should car salesmen and salesladies unionize? Which would be proper union, Teamsters, UAW, or what? Then if they do, like electricians and plumbers in some states, auto dealers would then call the UAW Car Sales "Union Hall" when they need a new salesperson. When a car salesman has an issue with the dealer/owner, he could see his union rep and then maybe file a grievance.
That's for sure. I'd love to have one in the garage, but definitely not as a daily driver.
Yeah, same here. I could actually get by with one as a daily driver for the most part, since I only live 3.5 miles from work. Sometimes I take the long way in, just to give the car a longer chance to warm up! But I'd be leery of taking something like that on a long trip, or into a bad neighborhood, or someplace where parking is tight. And if I had a long commute, hell no!
Funny, but back in the 1990's, I had no problem driving my '67 Catalina convertible all over the place. Went to Ocean City, Maryland in it once, and Hershey Park, PA several times...both places about 125-130 miles away. Nowadays though, the car just seems cumbersome. Guess I'm changing with old age. Or I've just gotten used to more modern cars.
I think out of all the major professional sports that basketball is more like the WWE (WWF) then any other sport.
C'mon, I am not a sports fan at all. I can tell you that hockey is the worst for just being a show like wrassling. Hockey is just Roller Derby on ice skates.
I had no problem driving my '67 Catalina convertible all over the place.
IMO, a '67 Catalina is a modern car vs. a '55 Chevy or Buick. a '55 Roadmaster has something like 230hp and weighed over 4200lbs. Drum brakes, and steering to match. Awesome looking car though. Now you could spend some big bucks to update everything.
looks like the uaw is gonna screw this deal up too. If they don't make concessions fit to fiats liking their will b no chrysler rescue.(as seen on local fox news in detroit) why is chrysler's future not in their own hands but hinged off of weather or not the uaw will accept or decline these concessions?
So, should car salesmen and salesladies unionize? Which would be proper union, Teamsters, UAW, or what?
I suggested that Rocky get his fellow employees to sign UAW cards before he went in and told the boss he was not running his business very well. Then he would have protection under NLRB rules. Though I doubt he would get 25% willing to sign a card.
My guess is probably less than 20% or Michigan people are sympathetic to the UAW workers and retirees. There are 10 million people in the state and about 1.2 million unemployed. The average income in the state is about half what the 200k UAW workers get. So the UAW old timers are the rich that are ruining it for all the rest with their high wages and restrictive work rules, that is killing GM and Chrysler.
In most 1st world countries where workers have "rights" unlike here in this anti-labor/worker enviroment it is illegal to cross picket lines.
I would suppose you have some legitimate source for such a crazy idea. Which 1st World country has this kind of law. Sounds like UAW rah rah rhetoric to me. You cannot believe all the crap you hear in a Union meeting.
yeah, when my boss and I were in Atlanta going to the Atlanta School of Sleep Medicine, in Oct.'08, watching TV at night, he wanted to watch that pro-wrestling garbage. I gave in, as I had already watched ESPN for a while. I don't like pro wrestling, boxing or hockey. Though hockey seems more a sport than boxing or wrestling.
rocky, MJ was a truly excellent basketball player, though. The Sonics, with Payton and Kemp, by all rights would've won the '96 NBA Finals if not for MJ.
And chetj, the Steelers recent SB victory over my current home-state Arizona Cardinals actually looked more legitimate, by far, than their 2006 Super Bowl steal over my true homeland Seattle Seahawks. In the Feb.5, 2006 game, Super Bowl 40, one would have to question so many calls. One was the "offensive pass interference" call on Daryl Jackson after he caught a Matt Hasselback pass for a TD. He did put his hands on the D-back, just for placement's sake, and then turned the other direction to catch the pass in the end zone. That was called back. Another one was when Jackson caught a pass and brushed the pylon at the end zone(automatic TD, right?), just before time elapsed in the first half. Wrong. The ref's called nothing, and just let the half end like that. Madden and Al Michaels just went "Humm?" questioning another non-call. The TV went instantly to a commercial.
Another was Ben Rothelschild's apparent TD run. Called a TD, he was actually short by about 6 inches. But it was painfully obvious from the replay that he didn't get in. Ref's called a timeout to review the play on their secret screen. TD! Rothschild later admitted to Letterman on his TV show that he did not get in the end zone.
Friends, there were at least 15 more like these during that game. I read on the net that people all over the country were going "What the *&^%? These people in the New England region were throwing food at their TV.
There was a definite "illegal movement" in control of that game. Seattle was squishing everyone they played that year, they were 14-3 (counting the NFC playoff game) going in to Super Bowl 40. Holmgren rested many starters in their last regular season game, which they lost. But 14-3 ain't too bad a record, no?
They should've won that game. They took our jerbs! I mean they took our Super Bowl. But this one was legitimately thrown. For some strange reason, the NFL front office won't let that referee crew ever ref another Super Bowl. That's truth, sports nuts. Wonder why that might be? Like I say, chetj, funny thing what a butt-load of money will do to a person's moral values. Pitiful job from the Commish on this one as well.
rocky, I have a GM/UAW question for ya. What happened to all of those great car body designers from the 60's? Were they UAW members? Look at the '62 Chevy Nova II, Bel Air, the '65 Chevy Malibu. The Malibu from '65, as probably all of you remember, was that squared-off bodystyle. Man, I bought a Revell model of that rig, painted it red like my '08 Lancer GTS, and it rocks my house like Foghat. That is a beautiful car! The later Nova's were cool, the '68 Camaro. I know Chev is coming out with a new Camaro, and it looks good, but I just feel it's a real shame that Chev just dropped their brains in the 70's, along with Mopar products and Ford, and put out the junk to America in that decade. Come on, the Pinto and Vega? No wonder I call gasoline ghastly, and want to go all-electric for our next rig. :surprise:
If it was the so-called oil "shortage" of the early 70's that caused the car business to go catiwampus, then that's really a shame. Because Chevy and Ford lost it for pert-near good because of that. Mopar products actually looked better to me in the 70's, for instance the Plymouth Gold Duster was a nice looking design, IMHO.
Even the later-to-come Omni/Horizon duo looked better than anything coming out of the Ford and GM body design studio's. When you compare that back to the great job they collectively did in the 60's, it's definitely quite a contrast, huh?
No wonder I call gasoline ghastly, and want to go all-electric for our next rig.
You may get your wish. If Warren Buffett has anything to say about it. The first legitimate EVs will be coming to America "MADE IN CHINA". I don't think he would take a chance on them being built here with the threat of the UAW and Card Check or EFCA. EFCA will force more manufacturing out of the USA than any of the many regulations currently killing our MFG base. Remember you read it here.
Well, what's the result of no regulation - unsafe auto factories that chew-up workers like hamburger and an environment so polluted the earth is rendered uninhabitable.
thanks for providing that article. Wow, the International Business Times article really has high praise for BYD founder Wang Chuan-Fu. I have read up extensively on BYD, their start in making cell-phone and laptop batteries, and the fact that Chuan-Fu and friends bought an available Chinese carmaker, with the thought of starting to build automobiles, in the 1990's.
Buffett's acquired a 10 percent stake in the firm last fall. The firm was founded in 1995, and is headed by Wang Chuan-Fu, a man described as a "combination of Thomas Edison and (former General Electric Chairman) Jack Welch- something like Edison in solving technical problems, and something like Welch in getting done what he needs to do," notes Buffet’s business partner Charlie Munger in the article Fortune Magazine.
Now, I know that this issue can ruffle feathers. I don't know why I feel immune to nationalistic issues, but, I think it has to do with the "volatility" of the stock market, ExxonMobil and their propensity to just jack us all up and raise ghastly prices just because they can, but I feel like I ought to get the best deal I can get for my wife and I when shopping.
Correct me if you feel this information is wrong in any way, but didn't y'all read in January '09 that ExxonMobil made $43B large ones in profit in the 4th quarter of 2008? Someone say Amen to that. That really pissed me off.
Even living in rural SE Arizona, where we have more bobcats, javelinas and wild rabbits than we have a chance of having the same amount of cars, I do have a '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, that has an ICE. I need to buy gas. I still remember the anger and hatred of the 70's, it was directed towards the oil companies.
Now, this brilliant Chinese guy comes up with a crossover called the e6. At first I wasn't sure I liked it. Too big, believe it or not, I love smaller rigs. Our Lancer GTS is about as big a car that I like to get. This BYD is a 7-passenger crossover, goes 0-60 in 8 seconds, goes 100mph top speed, and has a range of 249 miles.
Did you all read that? It has a 249 mile range!
gagrice, you know there will be opposition to BYD bringing this car to the States. Oh, yeah, can't y'all just feel the anger and hatred mounting against this nice-looking crossover. I have come to like it's free-flowing bodystyle lines, and would not be one bit ashamed for this vehicle to grace our dusty driveway.
Early price projections for this car to be sold in the U.S. are coming in from the net at around $28,000 in USD. This car is a prime example of a B.Obama $7,500 rebate "green" car, too, so that will deduct automatically off the price of the car. That seems a bargain to me, then, around a $21,000 price.
But the safety crash-testing could be a hold-up for a tad, as might the emissions testing. Oh, that's right, this is an all-electric car, dudes, there are practically no emissions exiting it's tailpipe. Whoo-hoo, bring this pup on.
Buffet invested quite intelligently in this company, IMHO. It will be here in the model year 2011.
You keep drinking that Kool-Aid flip77. I know you will have lots of people who will agree with you on this forum but the reality is if there was no UAW threat you guys would be making not $30 an/hr. but more like $12-$15 and in this horrible economy Toyota, would have thousands of applicants waiting for those jobs to become open. I think someday that reality will sit in with you. I've worked mostly non-union jobs in my life and there is a difference of respect. In a non-union shop your opinion can be voiced but it might cost you your job. In a union shop you can voice your opinion to get something done and you have the support of your union backing you if management doesn't like what you have to say. Unless you have a fantastic brown nosing type relationship with your boss you are powerless to make change.
You won;t find many people (except UAW workers) who would give the Union credit for Toyota's pay scale
The Japanese auto makers in the U.S. seem to be winning their battle with the UAW because the people they employ seem convinced that the benefits are good and that the union couldn't do any better. Moreover, these auto makers tend to build plants in the U.S. in areas that have a low average wage for laborers.
Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.
Yet the UAW continues to try. It attempted to organize the workers at the Subaru plant in Lafayette at least three times. The result? Nada, nothing. The plant will be producing Camrys (pictured) in a joint venture with Toyota in April.
Our take? The strength of the UAW has ebbed substantially. In 1979 the union had a membership of 1.5 million. By 2005 it had plunged to 600,000. Unless the transplants do something real stupid like slashing wages in half or eliminating medical benefits, we see union membership continue to dwindle. Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants. -MARCH 2007
I think the sentiment is even worse against the UAW in April 2009....YA THINK?
Re leaks on GM 3.8 causing fires and fault of suppliers who provided the gaskets - And, who is responsible for picking, qualifying gasket suppliers, checking their quality ongoing, incoming inspection for specifications, etc? Would that be GM?
Toyota had a gasket issue in the 80's....It was not a safety issue only a performance issue. What did they do.....They sent out notices to EVERY Toyota owner with 3.0 trucks between 1984 and 87 DESPITE the mileage and replaced BOTH head gaskets free. My Tacoma had 82K on it and way out of warranty. A friends had 120K on his.....
Now they are buying back 15 year old trucks because of rust issues....Show me ANY US automaker that would do either........Show me any US Automaker that COULD AFFORD to do either AND pay and medically cover their retirees well over the average American of a WORKING American..and people wonder why we buy metrics and will often pay far more for them....especially used..
55 Buick, 57 Cad and other old junk, obsolete cars and wishing to live in that past. That's for sure. I'd love to have one in the garage, but definitely not as a daily driver. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've been looking at a '55 Buick convertible. Nice design but driving it: oh my: nothing like a modern car.
Well, what's the result of no regulation - unsafe auto factories that chew-up workers like hamburger and an environment so polluted the earth is rendered uninhabitable.
The US and Unions like the UAW have taken it to the other extreme. Unsustainable wage packages and work rules that make it impossible for a company to even get 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. Add to that environmental regulations that are so restrictive many of the products we buy in this country cannot be made in this country. Such as the recently MANDATED CFL bulbs & hybrid battery cells.
If I was your age or Rocky's I would be looking for some place that you can live off of the land and provide all your own energy, water & food. Within the next 20 years you will have to raise your own food or die of starvation.
I completely agree - as far as handling, braking & safety features are concerned, the old cars are downright primitive when compared to what we now take for granted. But the Caddies, Buicks & Oldsmobiles from the 50s & 60s were handsome, stylish cars that pulled people into showrooms. GM knew how to get car buyers excited in those days.
Even Lemko, who owns a Caddy & a Buick from the late 80s, admits that his cars are bland, insipid & utterly uninspiring appliances next to the great cars that GM built & sold 20 or 30 years earlier. In 2060, rich collectors will still bid against each other for, say, a 1957 Buick Roadmaster, but they'll head for the refreshment table when an '87 Park Avenue is on the block.
Rocky wants us to think that currency manipulation & unfair trade practices are behind the D3's woes, but the truth is that somewhere along the line, the domestic builders forgot how to design cars that made us hungry to own them.
GM engines will for sure? I have NEVER seen an engine fire in a GM car.
Lemko _
I've left out anything since 1998 (except for the SUV's which have a separate cause) but GM HAS had some famous problems with engine fires before. Perhaps not as many as Ford, but still plenty.
calls scabs are simply people who are grateful for a job and want to work...to end up face down in the river for crossing a picket line is criminal, and shows what the union is afraid of...people who want to work...
A picket line is nothing sacred...considering the UAW, it is probably somebody who realizes that they aren't worth half what they are paid (remember, over $25/hour to sweep the floor), and would actually be grateful to work...corssing the picket line would be the smartest thing one could do in an attempt to keep a job...
UAW people always know when they have the right to strike...but when anyone else decides to exercise THEIR rights, the UAW gets violent...they know the truth, they aren't worth a hill of beans, and they use violence and intimidation to scare people into acting with them...shows the class level and the simple lack of average intelligence of UAW workers...great show, rocky...
Employers should have the right to fire anyone who strikes, and hire anyone else who wants to work...employees should have the right to cross any picket line w/o fear of harm if they want to work and do not agree with the union demands...let the best man win...
"Bad news for General Motors: They had to recall over 1 million cars for safety reasons. The cars were easy to locate . . . they were still in the showrooms." quoted from Craig Ferguson's late night monologue...
UAW people always know when they have the right to strike...but when anyone else decides to exercise THEIR rights, the UAW gets violent...they know the truth, they aren't worth a hill of beans, and they use violence and intimidation to scare people into acting with them...shows the class level and the simple lack of average intelligence of UAW workers.
The basic intimidation and criminal mind that would harm another human that does not believe the way they do, is the best argument against EFCA legislation. Card Check will set the US back at least 100 years in the Global economy we are a part of. Thankfully Obama knows that as well as many of the less ignorant in our Congress. The UAW members would do well to ask themselves how can I make the company I work for profitable? Not how much can I get today and screw the company.
Well just north of us in a beautiful country called Canada, it is illegal to cross a picket line. You will get a Easton or Louisville Slugger. Your neck would be like a tee. FOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
country called Canada, it is illegal to cross a picket line.
If it was illegal why would they need intimidation? Is that all the Unions are good for? Intimidating workers into believing the BS they promote? Just so you do not think you know what you are talking about. This case was just lost by the Union in Canada. The court will not even uphold the UNIONS rules for crossing a picket line. There is NO LAW AGAINST CROSSING A PICKET LINE.
You are losing credibility believing what you here at the UAW hall.
Court won't enforce fines for crossing picket lines
Appeal also rules union penalties were excessive Dec 04, 2008 04:30 AM
The Ontario Court of Appeal has upheld a ruling that unions cannot ask courts to enforce the fines they slap on members who cross a picket line.
In a two-to-one ruling yesterday, the court agreed with a lower court finding that the Union of Taxation Employees Local 70030 could not use the courts to force two members to pay a penalty of $476 each – three days gross wages – for working three days during a 2004 strike at the Canada Revenue Agency.
The court's decision stated that a fine is "unconscionable" when one party, such as a union, has an unfair advantage over a member by virtue of its constitution. The Court also agreed with the lower court finding that the fine was excessive.
"This is very good news, and follows a path of decisions in other provinces that these kinds of picket line disputes should be dealt with internally, not by making the courts responsible," said labour lawyer John Craig of Heenan Blaikie, who represented the two Ottawa workers in their fight against the fines.
Robert McNamara, the legendary Ford president, once came to the startling conclusion that Ford would eventually run out of people to sell cars to (quaintly assuming that each family would need only 1 car). The only way to keep sales high, therefore, was to inspire people to trade up. Still, they only did so once every 3 years.
Radical style changes in the late 1950s did little to disrupt this pattern. McNamara then came up with the brilliant concept of "planned obsolescence." In other words, deliberately make a car that would deteriorate almost immediately. This would force people to buy new cars more often. In addition, by using cheaper, essentially disposable materials, the auto company would make bigger profits.
In addition to the dubious business model of planned obsolescence, the auto industry never implemented interchangeable parts between makes and models. As a result, the auto-parts market has grown into the billions.
When a car has a functional life of 100,000 miles, or 5 years, a strain is placed on the system. The cost of retooling propietary components contributes to the auto industry's slowness in incorporating technological innovation.
Concentrating only on mileage standards and outsourcing won't revive the US auto industry. Only a paradigm shift can save it.
First, all US-made cars should share common parts. Why should a wheel from a Ford not fit a Chevy? Failure to follow common standards makes it difficult and costly for third-party manufacturers to provide add-on and custom products, particularly for short-run product lines.Government regulations and antitrust laws could encourage auto companies to catalog and build from standard components as much as possible.
Standardizing common components, moreover, increases competition; adds longevity to model lines; increases reliability; allows for the elimination of poorly designed components, diminishes legal liability; and allows third parties a standard from which to build competitive replacement parts. Furthermore, it reconfigures the industry along horizontal, rather than vertical lines, which allows for more stability, and is both green and sustainable.
As more components become standardized, there's less of a need for large manufacturing facilities for frames, engines, running gear and many other parts. Such a move allows more small auto companies to proliferate. A few common chassis designs could also accelerate the conversion of cars to automated drivers.
But the future of the auto-manufacturing industry requires a much greater transportation revolution. Ford, General Motors and Chrysler should be looking for alternatives to cars, not just alternatives to oil.
Believe it or not, the old ways have to die. You can call it BS or anything else you want...GM builds car to fail! :P
Comments
Agreed. Most unions will do that and that is called being a gangster, not a worker. This is probably the biggest reason I hate the labor unions. They simply go for the kill if you cross them.
>The company owner would of never paid the rent or mortgage without the people under he/she. It's called a balance of power.
Own a business first Rocky and then talk about balance of power.....It is not easy to be a business owner. Machining a job to 10 microns might be easier.
Hmmm...
>The Acura TL was indeed a good car. You had to keep her reved up to have any sort of power but it was a good car and fun to drive.
more Hmmmmmm...
Does somebody over here feel Rocky somehow is lacking the information that Acura is Honda?
That was my quote Rock was responding too.
That's for sure. A friend of mine owns a small machine shop with about 30 employees. He's pretty much crapping bricks right now with slow business and his bank lowering his credit line. The few jobs he's getting are taking a long time to get paid and he's borrowing money to make payroll. He doesn't want to let anyone go. Not all company owners are out to screw their employees.
They got their kick-back! Stealers 21, Seahawks 10. The Stealers are the biggest bunch of dorks in sports, it would take a butt-load of illegal betting and buy-off-able ref's to help them win a Super Bowl caliber game. Funny thing what money, power and greed can combine to give you, huh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Cool! Me too!
Well since you claim GM cars that aren't even out yet are better than the competition, then I can certainly go back 4 years for a comparo! :P
Oh, c'mon! Any car can have a few drops of gasoline leak. Usually it just evaporates harmlessly! I'm sure Hondas and Toyotas do that too.
I'm not trying to be negative with my tone but am speaking from experience. I was shown the door for giving my opinion a few weeks ago with no recourse. :sick:
-Rocky
I guess it is not. It's a cleaner motor than the Toyota motors a neighbor who curbstones gets. He had one 4-cyl that was a blown head gasket and 10 years old. Bought it from the owner who didn't seem to know they blow heads. That junk doesn't last. Neighbor does have a cleaner motor now but that's because the 4-runner had a blown motor. So the replacement motor is cleaner. I told him it probably blew because of sludge. Those junk things just don't last no matter how the Toyfans try to spread their propaganda.
I've got a 3800 with 90K and don't have any leakage around the valve covers. The UAW does a good job with quality parts. If the leaks are a problem it's the fault of the suppliers providing the gaskets that were used. AT least GM does recalls instead of hiding problems as TSBs or telling people they're supposed to run that way!!!
Let's say you are completely correct. The J3 engines are "junk things". The GM cars and engines are great. Given that the public perception is very anti-GM and the UAW is in serious trouble given the current situation, what should the UAW do? Is it important for them to have some positive perception outside their own group, or does that not matter? Do you think UAW sympathizers saying that people who try to feed their families who aren't union could be "floating down the river" is something that is going to help? Is our perception that the UAW is a bunch of thugs with high costs and low value incorrect?
Because even if you are correct, the market has spoken and GM is never going to be what it was. Hopefully it will become smaller but much better.
Back on Topic:
Bankruptcy looms over auto talks
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090415/AUTO01/904150367/1148/rss25
Commentary: Politics rule General Motors run to bankruptcy
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090414/OPINION03/904140326/1022/rss10
Chrysler sets April 27 deadline on buyout offer
http://www.freep.com/article/20090413/BUSINESS01/90413051/-1/rss07
:sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I never said that UAW members would do that but in some parts of the country that has happened and over in Europe it has and would still happen. In most 1st world countries where workers have "rights" unlike here in this anti-labor/worker enviroment it is illegal to cross picket lines. I know the neocon globalist want you to believe the capitalist have your best interests for you and your family at heart but the reality "proof in the pudding" tells a different story.
I know Marsha7, thinks I'm a brain dead Yankee because I care about working people. I know he thinks I'm stupid because I care about my countries national security being sold down the river so some fat cat can make another buck. However I know I'm one of the few but very proud americans that cares about the future of this country. You can call the UAW workers all kinds of names and run them through the mud all you want but at the end of the day those folks are among this countries most patriotic citizens and instead of cutting down their neighbor like many of you enjoy doing they want to build them up. They want us to live the american dream and our nation to prosper. They are tired of the double standard for the elites and the serfs. :sick:
Maybe someday when it's too late many of you will realize that this "Brave New World" you support was a mistake.
-Rocky
I guess I deserved that!!! Now when can I drive up to MI and buy a Genesis from you?! :shades:
They still haven't made a decision. I called the HR lady this afternoon and instead of her telling me you weren't picked like I thought I was going to hear well they are still in the decision process. She apologized for it taking so long. I told her I'm just glad I'm still in the running.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Even worse is someone posting it as another negative against the UAW on this thread or another way to smear GM. I'd suspect most engines have some seepage of oil around the gasket material at 75K.
I wonder if people post the recalls or should-be recalls on HoToy's threads on here?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
they crash camry into yaris, accord into fit, smart car into some other midsized sedan. Is this an attempt to smear foreign manufacturers safety cause I noticed they didn't crash an aveo into a malibu? When safety is of concerned, size really does matter. Just like a f350 would be no match to a semi truck&trailer.
although, these days they r not the hard arses they used to be back in the day. all bark & no bite.
That's for sure. I'd love to have one in the garage, but definitely not as a daily driver.
Yeah, same here. I could actually get by with one as a daily driver for the most part, since I only live 3.5 miles from work. Sometimes I take the long way in, just to give the car a longer chance to warm up! But I'd be leery of taking something like that on a long trip, or into a bad neighborhood, or someplace where parking is tight. And if I had a long commute, hell no!
Funny, but back in the 1990's, I had no problem driving my '67 Catalina convertible all over the place. Went to Ocean City, Maryland in it once, and Hershey Park, PA several times...both places about 125-130 miles away. Nowadays though, the car just seems cumbersome. Guess I'm changing with old age.
C'mon, I am not a sports fan at all. I can tell you that hockey is the worst for just being a show like wrassling. Hockey is just Roller Derby on ice skates.
IMO, a '67 Catalina is a modern car vs. a '55 Chevy or Buick. a '55 Roadmaster has something like 230hp and weighed over 4200lbs. Drum brakes, and steering to match. Awesome looking car though. Now you could spend some big bucks to update everything.
I suggested that Rocky get his fellow employees to sign UAW cards before he went in and told the boss he was not running his business very well. Then he would have protection under NLRB rules. Though I doubt he would get 25% willing to sign a card.
My guess is probably less than 20% or Michigan people are sympathetic to the UAW workers and retirees. There are 10 million people in the state and about 1.2 million unemployed. The average income in the state is about half what the 200k UAW workers get. So the UAW old timers are the rich that are ruining it for all the rest with their high wages and restrictive work rules, that is killing GM and Chrysler.
I would suppose you have some legitimate source for such a crazy idea. Which 1st World country has this kind of law. Sounds like UAW rah rah rhetoric to me. You cannot believe all the crap you hear in a Union meeting.
rocky, MJ was a truly excellent basketball player, though. The Sonics, with Payton and Kemp, by all rights would've won the '96 NBA Finals if not for MJ.
And chetj, the Steelers recent SB victory over my current home-state Arizona Cardinals actually looked more legitimate, by far, than their 2006 Super Bowl steal over my true homeland Seattle Seahawks. In the Feb.5, 2006 game, Super Bowl 40, one would have to question so many calls. One was the "offensive pass interference" call on Daryl Jackson after he caught a Matt Hasselback pass for a TD. He did put his hands on the D-back, just for placement's sake, and then turned the other direction to catch the pass in the end zone. That was called back. Another one was when Jackson caught a pass and brushed the pylon at the end zone(automatic TD, right?), just before time elapsed in the first half. Wrong. The ref's called nothing, and just let the half end like that. Madden and Al Michaels just went "Humm?" questioning another non-call. The TV went instantly to a commercial.
Another was Ben Rothelschild's apparent TD run. Called a TD, he was actually short by about 6 inches. But it was painfully obvious from the replay that he didn't get in. Ref's called a timeout to review the play on their secret screen. TD! Rothschild later admitted to Letterman on his TV show that he did not get in the end zone.
Friends, there were at least 15 more like these during that game. I read on the net that people all over the country were going "What the *&^%? These people in the New England region were throwing food at their TV.
There was a definite "illegal movement" in control of that game. Seattle was squishing everyone they played that year, they were 14-3 (counting the NFC playoff game) going in to Super Bowl 40. Holmgren rested many starters in their last regular season game, which they lost. But 14-3 ain't too bad a record, no?
They should've won that game. They took our jerbs! I mean they took our Super Bowl. But this one was legitimately thrown. For some strange reason, the NFL front office won't let that referee crew ever ref another Super Bowl. That's truth, sports nuts. Wonder why that might be? Like I say, chetj, funny thing what a butt-load of money will do to a person's moral values. Pitiful job from the Commish on this one as well.
rocky, I have a GM/UAW question for ya. What happened to all of those great car body designers from the 60's? Were they UAW members? Look at the '62 Chevy Nova II, Bel Air, the '65 Chevy Malibu. The Malibu from '65, as probably all of you remember, was that squared-off bodystyle. Man, I bought a Revell model of that rig, painted it red like my '08 Lancer GTS, and it rocks my house like Foghat. That is a beautiful car! The later Nova's were cool, the '68 Camaro. I know Chev is coming out with a new Camaro, and it looks good, but I just feel it's a real shame that Chev just dropped their brains in the 70's, along with Mopar products and Ford, and put out the junk to America in that decade. Come on, the Pinto and Vega? No wonder I call gasoline ghastly, and want to go all-electric for our next rig. :surprise:
If it was the so-called oil "shortage" of the early 70's that caused the car business to go catiwampus, then that's really a shame. Because Chevy and Ford lost it for pert-near good because of that. Mopar products actually looked better to me in the 70's, for instance the Plymouth Gold Duster was a nice looking design, IMHO.
Even the later-to-come Omni/Horizon duo looked better than anything coming out of the Ford and GM body design studio's. When you compare that back to the great job they collectively did in the 60's, it's definitely quite a contrast, huh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
You may get your wish. If Warren Buffett has anything to say about it. The first legitimate EVs will be coming to America "MADE IN CHINA". I don't think he would take a chance on them being built here with the threat of the UAW and Card Check or EFCA. EFCA will force more manufacturing out of the USA than any of the many regulations currently killing our MFG base. Remember you read it here.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20090414/byds-all-electric-car-and-warren-buffet- t-on-fortune-issue.htm
You mean like the 540 Superfund sites in Pennsylvania? 3-Mile Island?
Buffett's acquired a 10 percent stake in the firm last fall. The firm was founded in 1995, and is headed by Wang Chuan-Fu, a man described as a "combination of Thomas Edison and (former General Electric Chairman) Jack Welch- something like Edison in solving technical problems, and something like Welch in getting done what he needs to do," notes Buffet’s business partner Charlie Munger in the article Fortune Magazine.
Now, I know that this issue can ruffle feathers. I don't know why I feel immune to nationalistic issues, but, I think it has to do with the "volatility" of the stock market, ExxonMobil and their propensity to just jack us all up and raise ghastly prices just because they can, but I feel like I ought to get the best deal I can get for my wife and I when shopping.
Correct me if you feel this information is wrong in any way, but didn't y'all read in January '09 that ExxonMobil made $43B large ones in profit in the 4th quarter of 2008? Someone say Amen to that. That really pissed me off.
Even living in rural SE Arizona, where we have more bobcats, javelinas and wild rabbits than we have a chance of having the same amount of cars, I do have a '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, that has an ICE. I need to buy gas. I still remember the anger and hatred of the 70's, it was directed towards the oil companies.
Now, this brilliant Chinese guy comes up with a crossover called the e6. At first I wasn't sure I liked it. Too big, believe it or not, I love smaller rigs. Our Lancer GTS is about as big a car that I like to get. This BYD is a 7-passenger crossover, goes 0-60 in 8 seconds, goes 100mph top speed, and has a range of 249 miles.
Did you all read that? It has a 249 mile range!
gagrice, you know there will be opposition to BYD bringing this car to the States. Oh, yeah, can't y'all just feel the anger and hatred mounting against this nice-looking crossover. I have come to like it's free-flowing bodystyle lines, and would not be one bit ashamed for this vehicle to grace our dusty driveway.
Early price projections for this car to be sold in the U.S. are coming in from the net at around $28,000 in USD. This car is a prime example of a B.Obama $7,500 rebate "green" car, too, so that will deduct automatically off the price of the car. That seems a bargain to me, then, around a $21,000 price.
But the safety crash-testing could be a hold-up for a tad, as might the emissions testing. Oh, that's right, this is an all-electric car, dudes, there are practically no emissions exiting it's tailpipe. Whoo-hoo, bring this pup on.
Buffet invested quite intelligently in this company, IMHO.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
You won;t find many people (except UAW workers) who would give the Union credit for Toyota's pay scale
The Japanese auto makers in the U.S. seem to be winning their battle with the UAW because the people they employ seem convinced that the benefits are good and that the union couldn't do any better. Moreover, these auto makers tend to build plants in the U.S. in areas that have a low average wage for laborers.
Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.
Yet the UAW continues to try. It attempted to organize the workers at the Subaru plant in Lafayette at least three times. The result? Nada, nothing. The plant will be producing Camrys (pictured) in a joint venture with Toyota in April.
Our take? The strength of the UAW has ebbed substantially. In 1979 the union had a membership of 1.5 million. By 2005 it had plunged to 600,000. Unless the transplants do something real stupid like slashing wages in half or eliminating medical benefits, we see union membership continue to dwindle. Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.
-MARCH 2007
I think the sentiment is even worse against the UAW in April 2009....YA THINK?
Toyota had a gasket issue in the 80's....It was not a safety issue only a performance issue. What did they do.....They sent out notices to EVERY Toyota owner with 3.0 trucks between 1984 and 87 DESPITE the mileage and replaced BOTH head gaskets free. My Tacoma had 82K on it and way out of warranty. A friends had 120K on his.....
Now they are buying back 15 year old trucks because of rust issues....Show me ANY US automaker that would do either........Show me any US Automaker that COULD AFFORD to do either AND pay and medically cover their retirees well over the average American of a WORKING American..and people wonder why we buy metrics and will often pay far more for them....especially used..
That's for sure. I'd love to have one in the garage, but definitely not as a daily driver.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've been looking at a '55 Buick convertible. Nice design but driving it: oh my: nothing like a modern car.
The US and Unions like the UAW have taken it to the other extreme. Unsustainable wage packages and work rules that make it impossible for a company to even get 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. Add to that environmental regulations that are so restrictive many of the products we buy in this country cannot be made in this country. Such as the recently MANDATED CFL bulbs & hybrid battery cells.
If I was your age or Rocky's I would be looking for some place that you can live off of the land and provide all your own energy, water & food. Within the next 20 years you will have to raise your own food or die of starvation.
Even Lemko, who owns a Caddy & a Buick from the late 80s, admits that his cars are bland, insipid & utterly uninspiring appliances next to the great cars that GM built & sold 20 or 30 years earlier. In 2060, rich collectors will still bid against each other for, say, a 1957 Buick Roadmaster, but they'll head for the refreshment table when an '87 Park Avenue is on the block.
Rocky wants us to think that currency manipulation & unfair trade practices are behind the D3's woes, but the truth is that somewhere along the line, the domestic builders forgot how to design cars that made us hungry to own them.
Lemko _
I've left out anything since 1998 (except for the SUV's which have a separate cause) but GM HAS had some famous problems with engine fires before. Perhaps not as many as Ford, but still plenty.
Pontiac Fiero
http://www.freeengineinfo.com/pontiac-fiero.htm
Saturns
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/11/us/engine-fires-prompt-gm-to-issue-recall-of-8- 0-of-saturns.html
Oldsmobile Aurora
http://lemon.onecle.com/oldsmobile/oldsmobile-aurora.html
GM SUV's (from 2006)
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2006/gm_fire_hazard.html
A picket line is nothing sacred...considering the UAW, it is probably somebody who realizes that they aren't worth half what they are paid (remember, over $25/hour to sweep the floor), and would actually be grateful to work...corssing the picket line would be the smartest thing one could do in an attempt to keep a job...
UAW people always know when they have the right to strike...but when anyone else decides to exercise THEIR rights, the UAW gets violent...they know the truth, they aren't worth a hill of beans, and they use violence and intimidation to scare people into acting with them...shows the class level and the simple lack of average intelligence of UAW workers...great show, rocky...
Employers should have the right to fire anyone who strikes, and hire anyone else who wants to work...employees should have the right to cross any picket line w/o fear of harm if they want to work and do not agree with the union demands...let the best man win...
"Bad news for General Motors: They had to recall over 1 million cars for safety reasons. The cars were easy to locate . . . they were still in the showrooms." quoted from Craig Ferguson's late night monologue...
The basic intimidation and criminal mind that would harm another human that does not believe the way they do, is the best argument against EFCA legislation. Card Check will set the US back at least 100 years in the Global economy we are a part of. Thankfully Obama knows that as well as many of the less ignorant in our Congress. The UAW members would do well to ask themselves how can I make the company I work for profitable? Not how much can I get today and screw the company.
-Rocky
If it was illegal why would they need intimidation? Is that all the Unions are good for? Intimidating workers into believing the BS they promote? Just so you do not think you know what you are talking about. This case was just lost by the Union in Canada. The court will not even uphold the UNIONS rules for crossing a picket line. There is NO LAW AGAINST CROSSING A PICKET LINE.
You are losing credibility believing what you here at the UAW hall.
Court won't enforce fines for crossing picket lines
Appeal also rules union penalties were excessive
Dec 04, 2008 04:30 AM
The Ontario Court of Appeal has upheld a ruling that unions cannot ask courts to enforce the fines they slap on members who cross a picket line.
In a two-to-one ruling yesterday, the court agreed with a lower court finding that the Union of Taxation Employees Local 70030 could not use the courts to force two members to pay a penalty of $476 each – three days gross wages – for working three days during a 2004 strike at the Canada Revenue Agency.
The court's decision stated that a fine is "unconscionable" when one party, such as a union, has an unfair advantage over a member by virtue of its constitution. The Court also agreed with the lower court finding that the fine was excessive.
"This is very good news, and follows a path of decisions in other provinces that these kinds of picket line disputes should be dealt with internally, not by making the courts responsible," said labour lawyer John Craig of Heenan Blaikie, who represented the two Ottawa workers in their fight against the fines.
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/548191
Robert McNamara, the legendary Ford president, once came to the startling conclusion that Ford would eventually run out of people to sell cars to (quaintly assuming that each family would need only 1 car). The only way to keep sales high, therefore, was to inspire people to trade up. Still, they only did so once every 3 years.
Radical style changes in the late 1950s did little to disrupt this pattern. McNamara then came up with the brilliant concept of "planned obsolescence." In other words, deliberately make a car that would deteriorate almost immediately. This would force people to buy new cars more often. In addition, by using cheaper, essentially disposable materials, the auto company would make bigger profits.
In addition to the dubious business model of planned obsolescence, the auto industry never implemented interchangeable parts between makes and models. As a result, the auto-parts market has grown into the billions.
When a car has a functional life of 100,000 miles, or 5 years, a strain is placed on the system. The cost of retooling propietary components contributes to the auto industry's slowness in incorporating technological innovation.
Concentrating only on mileage standards and outsourcing won't revive the US auto industry. Only a paradigm shift can save it.
First, all US-made cars should share common parts. Why should a wheel from a Ford not fit a Chevy? Failure to follow common standards makes it difficult and costly for third-party manufacturers to provide add-on and custom products, particularly for short-run product lines.Government regulations and antitrust laws could encourage auto companies to catalog and build from standard components as much as possible.
Standardizing common components, moreover, increases competition; adds longevity to model lines; increases reliability; allows for the elimination of poorly designed components, diminishes legal liability; and allows third parties a standard from which to build competitive replacement parts. Furthermore, it reconfigures the industry along horizontal, rather than vertical lines, which allows for more stability, and is both green and sustainable.
As more components become standardized, there's less of a need for large manufacturing facilities for frames, engines, running gear and many other parts. Such a move allows more small auto companies to proliferate. A few common chassis designs could also accelerate the conversion of cars to automated drivers.
But the future of the auto-manufacturing industry requires a much greater transportation revolution. Ford, General Motors and Chrysler should be looking for alternatives to cars, not just alternatives to oil.
Believe it or not, the old ways have to die. You can call it BS or anything else you want...GM builds car to fail! :P
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW