"One of the scabs was caught in bed with a coworkers wife."...I have no problem with anyone crossing a pickt line because no one has the right to have "their" job preserved...what you mentioned here has nothing to do with our argument...
Further, I still think you did the right thing by speaking up, and, no, you don't need some damn union to keep a job that you were probably better off without...
You would unionize a 2-man hardware store, and that is the problem with union folks, they just think everything should be organized for their divine right to keep a job or shut a business down...and then nobody has a job...
The don't make $70/hr - they cost employers $70/hr. That's all labor/union-related costs rolled into current employees (current plus legacy benefits). Basically per one current employee (who is also paid too much for what they actually do, at least in terms of wage comparison with similar positions outside of D3 cocoon), you have one former sitting back and collecting more-less equal amount in pension, health insurance, etc. Even in super-bureaucratic France you have three private business employees feeding one government employee.
BTW-that new Dodge Challenger is an awesome looking car. I would go for the silver with black stripes or the orange with black stripes. Are you getting the SRT8 or whatever it is, the more expensive one?
The SRT8 is the top of the line with the 6.1L Hemi V8 engine, requires premium gas and there is a $2100 gas guzzler tax. All that for mid-$40s with options. I prefer the R/T that has the 5.7L Hemi V8, that suprisingly gets 16 and 25 MPG on regular fuel.
Let's see if I can imbed a picture of it. This is the Classic R/T model in the hemi orange pearl coat color. How does this look?
Right on. Same ones who did snap rings on Toyota transmissions, camshafts on Tundras, transmissions for Toyota lexus/Avalon/Camry that have shifting problems last 3 years or so, transmissions for Hondas (since God knows when), and many other problems that companies have had with engineering. These things happen to ALL cars.
Actually I think when Toyota and Honda have problems it's not their fault. But when GM has a problem it's because GM said we want the silicon-based gasket rings that will harden over years and start leaking to cause fires if a drop happens to hit the exhaust manifold and instead of evaporating and smelling like oil usually does it will catch on fire. :P
I don't believe in your "brave new world" that land ownership will be allowed by peasants. I think in your "brave new world" we will be packed like sardines in a efficiency apartment if we are that lucky eating out the the elites garbage can.
Not my Brave new world. Look real hard at the typical Union Mentality and you will see who gave control of our lives away. The individual means nothing in the UAW world. Though I agree that the elite in our government would like us all stuck in tenements with a big screen TV & a Nintendo to while away the hours. Riding the bus to work. :sick: They will let US out to vote and protest anything that was against the PARTY LINE.
I have come to accept the globalization. Not my idea. I have no more control over it than you or fintail. There are human rights abuses in EVERY COUNTRY. The USA included. We cannot police every infraction. You don't want to support countries that are committing acts of human rights abuse. Throw everything in your home made in China in the trash can. I think you will be hard pressed to use any computer that does not have components built in countries that you don't like.
I'm suprised you didn't cross based on all your anti-union ranting or was it different because it was your pay and benefits that were on the line and you didn't want to lose them?
You need to learn to read the posts before commenting. I WAS NOT on strike. I was forced by our Union to walk picket duty for another bargaining unit. In that case I had no reason or need to cross the picket line. As you may remember when all the major grocery chains pulled a lockout against the grocery clerks, I DID NOT cross the picket line. The ONLY strike I was involved in was with the CWA in 1968. I walked picket line after I worked at another job in construction. If I sign onto a Union contract, I do abide by what I sign on for even if I disagree. And much of the time I do disagree. I believe more in the individuals rights than the collective rights of a Union. A concept you need to really analyze before it is too late. If you want to be successful you will have to get out of the collective union mode. There are NO MORE 55 retirement jobs working for someone else. That is gone. Even government jobs unless elected, are not giving free health care. We have a friend that works for SSI, and is near retirement age. She will NOT get free health care for life. She is paying $200+ per month now and it will go up until she reaches 65 or 66 years of age. Sorry man, too many people to feed.
I have no complaints about the quality of the vehicles that GM builds. I'm confident that the new Malibu, for example, can hold its own with the Camry & Accord. My gripe with GM is that until recently, the company ignored those of us who don't like SUVs & trucks & invested next to no money in sedans & coupes.
It took Cadillac until the 2008 model year to bring out a world-class RWD sedan that could handle as well as the German competition. And the prior-generation Malibu just screamed "airport rental". It wasn't anything that I'd want in my driveway.
I don't fault the UAW for this, but it is one reason why I don't want my tax dollars used to prop up GM & Chrysler.
They will have to lead the revolt. The only good that will come out of such desperate times would be a return of the government to the people.
I thought the PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENT won this last election. It was totally supported by the UAW and every other Union. Having second thoughts on who is on your side? You are not listening. The Union worker cannot compete in this day and age. There are millions of illegals that will soon be vying for the same jobs you are. It is supply and demand. I can tell you I would hire someone that is hungry for a job before I would hire someone that thinks the World owes him a living. Look at the UAW workers and you will see and hear what I mean. UAW workers are nothing special. They are just unskilled labor. They can be replaced. They are being replaced and nothing can be done but accept the inevitable and get on with your life. Run for office if you think you can make any changes in our system. I don't believe it is possible. Good candidates get run over by the bad ones. And they use the ignorant masses to do their bidding.
It couldn't be Glen Beck because he says they make $154 dollars an hour.
I'm not sure I know who this guy is. I can give you an explanation for the inflated hourly rate if you really want to know. It is mostly legacy costs. If GM sells 4 million vehicles and the legacy cost is $1500 per vehicle. How much would the legacy costs be when they only sell 2 million vehicles. I will give you a hint. $3000 per vehicle. The legacy is a fixed amount that GM bares each year. Averaging over $7Billion the last 5 years. So those costs have been tacked onto the labor for each vehicle GM builds in the USA. I am not saying it is right or wrong. It is what GM and the UAW agreed to do. At the time GM management was so clueless they thought people would keep buying GM products no matter what they put in the showrooms. Fatal error on both the UAW and GM managements part. If GM goes down to 1 million vehicles those legacy costs will be $6000 per vehicle and labor will reflect more than $154 per hour. Just simple math for someone educated in Michigan.
Just another point. Not all Costco stores are Union shops. I shop at the one the employees are represented by the Teamsters. I know most of them by name and respect their right to be Union members. Where I have lost respect is any Union that does not look at the health of the company when negotiating contracts. The UAW is a glaring example of just such a Union. So my respect for UAW workers comes from a retired Union member. My anti union sentiments are based on sound business principles. The company makes money the workers make money. The UAW has lost sight of that very basic principle. Costco makes money with Union people.
>It took Cadillac until the 2008 model year to bring out a world-class RWD
Can't disagree that it's a good sedan. But I do want to address the often-taken view that every car from GM has to equal or better the near competition in size and type. E.g., the past Malibu had to be better than the Accord. People would critique it to death. If they couldn't find one thing that they felt wasn't better than the Accord, then they found another, e.g., the snap made when the glovebox latched wasn't the same as the Accord therefore the Malibu was junk. Same for comparison with the German vehicles. Frankly I wouldn't purchase one because I dont' live close enough to a repair shop. But everyone wants the cars to exceed the competition in each little detail.
Another of my comments is the line addressing cars as rental fleet if it's one someone doesn't like. I see Toyotas at the rentals and I see lots of Chrysler products at the rentals. And I'm sure, I hope, there are lots of GMs sold into the rentals. But somehow rental has become a derogatory term.
The previous Malibu, in my assessment, was never meant to better the Accord, it was to be below the Accord and above the Civic in size. I felt the same ws intended with the marketing for the CTS early on. The mags want to compare to their favorite. Their favorite will never be allowed to lose. But for most ordinary people the Malibu served fine for what they bought it to do. While Honda has lots of money paid in purchase profit to repair defects in their cars, GM hasn't had that money due to the obvious reasons. The choice between trucks and cars for profit was made, right or wrong, by the MBAs and the share/bond-holders.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the business decisions made. I hopefully would have made different ones than were made. But those pesky contracts with UAW and all those older plant buildings have been a main pain. It's like the 30 year old mall that has served an area well and then a newer mall is built a few miles away. It doesn't have contracts with the tired anchor stores and brings in lots of new fad anchors and yuppie stores. Everyone starts raving about how the new mall is doing a better job and start going there. Then the older, but stable mall is in the same position in which GM has found itself. More than likely is that the cute stores in the new mall will start failing and pulling out in a few short years. The jobs for those workers will be gone because they didn't have unions or contracts. But the workers at the older mall stores that were stable anchors also are affected.
I realize this isn't a precise metaphor, simile, as a comparison.
GM's cars of the past 10 years have greatly improved. The popular price competition has actually deteriorated in quality and reliability. But it takes time for the reputations to readjust. And many people push to slow the adjustment with continual rants and raves about something long ago where GM failed.
UAW and other union workers will have to compete against a new class of hard-working "new" citizens after Obama gives amnesty to the millions of mostly Mexican illegals. Not to say that workers of other ancestry don't work hard, but I have noticed that Spanish speaking workers expecially give 100 percent.
From time to time when work needed on property, I have done usual due dilligence of selecting a contractor (referrals, interviews, looking at past jobs, etc). When contractor, or his foreman shows up on start date, many times the workers can only speak Spanish. These guys are fast, work continuously, don't screw off with too many breaks or long lunch, etc. I was especially amazed when a Drywall contractor that I signed contract for, showed up on start day with 2 Spanish speaking guys, got them started and then left. I could not believe how fast these guys worked and did good quality. Ceilings were 10 feet and these guys handled easily. The contractor then started taping/mudding the next day. Do not think that the hangers were in any kind of union - did not see any buttons on their caps. Look out unions.
The rentals are a double edged sword. I base my opinion of a vehicle on what I experience. I rent most of the time from Alamo. They have GM products. The last Malibu I had was decent and as good as the Camry I rented in Victoria BC. The Equinox I had last year in Hawaii was just JUNK. The previous Trail Blazer was very nice. My 88, 90, 93 GM 3/4ton 4X4 PU trucks were all great. I wish I still had the 93 instead of this gutless Ranger PU truck. My 2005 GMC Hybrid was not to my liking.
My point is what a car maker puts out for the public to test in a rental fleet will affect the sales to those people. The only reason I can see for GM to flood the rental market as they have in the past is to keep the legacy costs as low as possible. That gets back to the UAW millstone hung around their neck. I know some here cannot see that. It does not change the facts.
I could not believe how fast these guys worked and did good quality.
That is exactly right. It has all but eliminated the trade unions in So CA. I have a white non union friend that does masonry work with just his son. With the housing mess he cannot compete. He told me he is bidding jobs for a third of what he was 2 years ago. And losing out to people that are hungrier than he is. Rocky and the rest of his family better be ready for the onslaught when an additional 12 million hard working people get their green cards courtesy of Obama. They think it is tough now. They do not have a clue. Rocky's best move would be to learn Spanish. He knows that I am telling the truth. When all those firefighting supervisors in Oregon got demoted because they could not communicate with the Spanish speaking fire fighters. Being Bilingual will make getting a management job much easier. This has nothing to do with fair trade or globalization. It has to do with immigration and reality.
I picture your typical scab as a guest on "Jerry Springer" or one of the losers beating up his wife or girlfriend on "Cops." Even management see them as lowlifes with no morals or integrity.
I'm still upset over GM's decision to convert the Arlington, TX plant to manufacture stupid SUVs over the totally awesome Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Roadmaster, and Chevrolet Caprice. Those cars were #1, 2, and 3 on my new car shopping list!!! :mad:
What good would second thoughts do? I have yet to see viable alternatives to anything implemented by the winners suggested by the bitter guys who supported the opposition - who lost the race fair and square with a lame campaign and arguably the worst second in command candidate in history. There's no such thing as a "peoples government" unless the "people" are the top few. The "ignorant masses" are those who buy into the current divisive system. Two parties equals two losing choices. Changes never come from simple elections alone.
It's all a pendulum. Now it is swinging away from unions that have grown abusive and lazy. Then the elites will become the abusive ones, and the pendulum will swing back...unless the globalist elite have everyone implanted with RFID and brainwashing by then
There's no reason Fiat would want to save Chrysler. Fiat might save its few viable products, and use the dealer network. And even then, it's iffy. Nobody has the finances to save Chrysler as it exists now.
If the real intent of the old Malibu was to be smaller than a Camcord but larger than a Civic - and better than neither, the entire product planning dept should be fired and kicked to the curb. When you are playing catch-up you are not in a position to try to redefine a market. You can make a similar product better, at a lower price point, but making something that doesn't compete with the established leaders is a road to ruin.
The only way to succeed is to best the competition. That proposed Malibu strategy answers questions that were never asked, and bests nobody. Seems like a very GM strategy of the past 30 years or so.
I love the term "business decisions" - the term is usually corporate blather used to excuse poor decisionmaking by irresponsible overpaid cloned MBAs based on short term profits (personal bonuses) and nothing else. Some people understand longterm viability and sustainable profit seeking, some don't. The condition of the auto industry today reflects who got it and who didn't.
GM has improved and the competition hasn't improved as fast, or has even declined...but GM still has to be superior at the game. Making a new game isn't going to work.
GM is far below in many categories for most of their models. That's why they need to surgically remove the junk and sell what is competitive. Recalls are much higher for GM and C than industry average....because of the junk models.
Reliability findings
Ford leads the domestics
Ford's three brands-Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury-continue to pull away from the rest of the Detroit automakers. Almost all Ford models are now average or better, with the exception of some that are truck-based. Excluding those, Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers.
Chrysler Sebring LOW The Chrysler Sebring Convertible has the worst predicted-reliability score among new cars in our survey. It is 283 percent worse than the average model. General Motors is a mixed bag. Among the bright spots is the redesigned Chevrolet Malibu; in its first year, the four-cylinder version is better than average and the V6 is average. The Buick Lucerne with a V8 and the Pontiac G6 with a four-cylinder are above average, and the Chevrolet Avalanche has improved to average.
But a quarter of GM models are still well below average in reliability. Some that didn't fare well are fairly new designs that did well in our testing, such as the Cadillac CTS and the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, and Saturn Outlook SUV triplets. Chrysler trails the pack. Almost two-thirds of its products rate below average for reliability. The redesigned 2008 Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivans earned low scores, as did the Chrysler Sebring V6 and Dodge Avenger sedans and the Jeep Liberty SUV. The Sebring Convertible has the worst score: 283 percent worse than average. The only above-average models are the Dodge Caliber hatchback and Jeep Patriot SUV.
It's all a pendulum. Now it is swinging away from unions that have grown abusive and lazy. Then the elites will become the abusive ones, and the pendulum will swing back...unless the globalist elite have everyone implanted with RFID and brainwashing by then
I agree on that. I think the masses are happy with a TV with cable and a game box. How many welfare people are we keeping in that vegetative state right now? Think New Orleans & Chicago & Detroit & Philadelphia etc etc.
Unions can survive if they could see what they are doing to the companies they are tied to. Some do and are growing. The Teamster's had a net gain of 80,000 members last year. How many did the UAW lose?
You keep referring to a fair election. That point is debatable with ACORN in the mix. I still like Palin, though I think it was probably premature to bring her out. I think this next election in 2010 will be 1994 all over again. Will it make much difference. I doubt it. We have a corrupt system. Just not as corrupt as many others in the World.
"It took Cadillac until the 2008 model year to bring out a world-class RWD sedan that could handle as well as the German competition. And the prior-generation Malibu just screamed "airport rental".
That has been my point. Why take so long to make a competetive car, as the compnay is going down the tubes, hopefully taking the UAW with it...
If the real intent of the old Malibu was to be smaller than a Camcord but larger than a Civic - and better than neither, the entire product planning dept should be fired and kicked to the curb.
That's a key aspect of globalization - keep the sheeple contented and submissive with cheap trinkets such as TVs that cost nothing compared to the past. It's a good mask of declining real incomes which will continue to do so as the "free marketeers" have their way with the first world.
Palin is a fine choice - for a podunk mayor or governor. Not someone who should play on a national or worldwide stage. Had someone else been picked, and maybe had someone been able to walk away from their associations with garbage such as Gramm a little earlier...maybe it could have been different. However, I doubt much would be different today, or in the future. The same forces would be in control.
I'm just waiting for the public sector unions to fail. Some of those perks seem every bit as bad as what the "capitalists" whine about regarding the UAW.
>the entire product planning dept should be fired and kicked to the curb.
And from the car devotee that seems to be the right technique. But to the beancounter you can sell cars. The problem is how the reputation builds.
Let's face it, most people don't want a Civic with its higher costs or an Accord. They want transportation that's above mediocre to work and back when they're buying an automobile.
The millstone is the costs of older plants they can't close, the union legacy costs alter and earlier the hourly costs, and the retirees all kill any Manhattan Plan ability to invoke a truly better--to open minds--vehicle that becomes a trendsetter like a 55 Chevy was as discussed in another discussion here on Edmunds.
I didn't really realize how many people don't choose a car because they really feel it's better for this or that, they choose a car for price and basic service to get them from A to B. A long discussion with the service manager at the Buick et al dealership a few years ago made me realize that. We were talking about people not doing basic maintenance on their cars and then when something is badly wrong, they are upset at having to repair it.
This all goes back to the beancounters and the UAW costs. The union retirees should be worrying because reality is that their retirement of well laid leisure needs to become spartan in what they're receiving from GM; the salaried retirees have already had their reality cuts.
>Not if Sarah "I can see Russia from the coast of Alaska" Palin is part of the mix.
I don't know if the host wants to start skiing on the Utah snow-covered slopes of politics here but I can't let this stand. It's amazing how the opposition used "politics of personal destructions" (about which they complain so glibly when used on them) against Palin aided by the majority of the media. E.g., have you heard anyone totaling up Michele's wardrobe costs these days? :sick: Have you seen Michele mocked on Saturday night live--there's a lot there I could come up with for scripts? Have you heard Hillary's wardrob priced? Now she's wanting other people to pay her campaign debts--I believe she and Bill have made enough since leaving to pay it themselves--or sell some of the White House pieces they took. :shades:
I'm just waiting for the public sector unions to fail. Some of those perks seem every bit as bad as what the "capitalists" whine about regarding the UAW.
I agree completely. There is something wrong with a Union that has no competition, such as the NEA. It is like why not agree to the Union's demands, we just take it from the tax payers. Then you have the tax payers that keep voting for more school bonds. So we get what we vote for. I can whine because I vote NO on every spending initiative presented to the voters. If anyone is disenfranchised it is the fiscal conservative voter in this country.
I am sure Palin will be happy to return for 4 more years as governor. Nothing on the National level she could run for. It sounds like you got all you wanted in the last election. Ask the newly elected Senator Chambliss from Georgia what he thinks of Palin. He gave her all the credit for his election in the runoff win. Obama could not help Martin in this one.
Georgia law states that if no candidate receives a simple majority of the popular vote, then the election will be decided in a run-off. On December 2, 2008, Chambliss won the run-off with 57% of vote to Martin's 43%.
The AFT is a competitive union to the NEA. The NEA is more of a professional association and pussyfoots around with big benefits and perks for their leaders who are political hacks while the AFT has union roots.
Honey. yes Dear . . . Honey our new Toyota has a noise in it. not again Dear? yes Honey? OK Dear I'll bring it to the dealer like the last time at 4AM in the morning when it is still dark. Why so early Honey. Dear . . . I don't want the neighbors to know our new Toyota has problems,remember I did the same when we had the Honda. Oh Honey you are so thoughtful! Thank you Dear.
Being owned by beancounters who seem to divert saved production costs into personal bonuses and benefits for "shareholders" that aren't realistic is no way to run a company that wishes to survive. Cars are a product with subjective influences as well as objective, and beancounters don't help products win either. As you say, it has to be better than mediocre...and cars like that old Malibu and so many other GM products are mediocre at best.
I don't know if most of the old salaried ranks at GM from about 1970 onwards knew much reality at all. Must have been a nice ride.
NEA is a small fry...most public sector unions at every level seem to partake in benefits schemes that simply do not exist in the private sector. In for 25 or 30, then retire at a level that most in the real world won't be able to see - and we all pay for it. It's a crime. However, I don't see many free marketeers crying about it, as private sector union dissolution benefits the wealthy investor (which is what the oligarchist one worlders are all about), while reeling in the public sector only benefits some peon taxpayers.
Heck, if you pay for your clothes, you can wear what you want. If someone else pays, you are fair game
Face it, she killed any chances your guys had of pulling off a win, not that they had it easy anyway after the past 8 years of mistakes. It was a huge mistake, and then to have her tutored by filth like Kissinger was the final straw. Think to the future, if you believe they have anything to offer in 3 years....2012 will be here before you know it.
On that subject, I do wonder how the other side would deal with GM and this union. Anything different? Really?
And remember, if you complain about the economy, you are a whiner :P
Let's face it, most people don't want a Civic with its higher costs
Given that the Civic is one of the top two selling small cars in the US, most people who want a smaller car *DO* want a Civic, even though its up-front cost is higher.
When you say "higher costs", to what are you referring? I believe the overall cost over time is lower for a Civic than most. But the purchase price is higher than many others.
See, that's an attitude problem right there. It is not HIS job! It's a job provided by the company, to be (theoretically, in any case) filled by anyone qualified to do the work.
I respectfully disagree. It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so. Technically you are right in a non-union enviroment.
Like I said earlier, it was probably more because your were going up against "family", making the kid look bad.
Perhaps now you can understand why I feel the way I do towards unions. I should of never been terminated. When GM cuts there dealer network by 1700 stores I would think they will be one of them. :mad:
When the store goes out of business, send them a going out of business card made on a computer do-it-yourself card program. Make it like a get well card.
Further, I still think you did the right thing by speaking up, and, no, you don't need some damn union to keep a job that you were probably better off without...
I probably am better off without them marsha7, but the problem is the economy is so freaken bad that jobs I'd normally be over qualified for I'm not getting due to people being even more over qualified than me. :sick:
>First, all US-made cars should share common parts. Why should a wheel from a Ford not fit a Chevy?
my response was thus based upon that. The author wants wheels (which are part of the identity of a vehicle) to be common. that is absolutely no possible. you need to consider offset, tire width, load carrying capacity, et al....
Comments
Like I said earlier, it was probably more because your were going up against "family", making the kid look bad.
Further, I still think you did the right thing by speaking up, and, no, you don't need some damn union to keep a job that you were probably better off without...
You would unionize a 2-man hardware store, and that is the problem with union folks, they just think everything should be organized for their divine right to keep a job or shut a business down...and then nobody has a job...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The SRT8 is the top of the line with the 6.1L Hemi V8 engine, requires premium gas and there is a $2100 gas guzzler tax. All that for mid-$40s with options. I prefer the R/T that has the 5.7L Hemi V8, that suprisingly gets 16 and 25 MPG on regular fuel.
Let's see if I can imbed a picture of it. This is the Classic R/T model in the hemi orange pearl coat color. How does this look?
Thanks for your help Tidester.
Right on. Same ones who did snap rings on Toyota transmissions, camshafts on Tundras, transmissions for Toyota lexus/Avalon/Camry that have shifting problems last 3 years or so, transmissions for Hondas (since God knows when), and many other problems that companies have had with engineering. These things happen to ALL cars.
Actually I think when Toyota and Honda have problems it's not their fault. But when GM has a problem it's because GM said we want the silicon-based gasket rings that will harden over years and start leaking to cause fires if a drop happens to hit the exhaust manifold and instead of evaporating and smelling like oil usually does it will catch on fire. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not my Brave new world. Look real hard at the typical Union Mentality and you will see who gave control of our lives away. The individual means nothing in the UAW world. Though I agree that the elite in our government would like us all stuck in tenements with a big screen TV & a Nintendo to while away the hours. Riding the bus to work. :sick: They will let US out to vote and protest anything that was against the PARTY LINE.
I have come to accept the globalization. Not my idea. I have no more control over it than you or fintail. There are human rights abuses in EVERY COUNTRY. The USA included. We cannot police every infraction. You don't want to support countries that are committing acts of human rights abuse. Throw everything in your home made in China in the trash can. I think you will be hard pressed to use any computer that does not have components built in countries that you don't like.
You need to learn to read the posts before commenting. I WAS NOT on strike. I was forced by our Union to walk picket duty for another bargaining unit. In that case I had no reason or need to cross the picket line. As you may remember when all the major grocery chains pulled a lockout against the grocery clerks, I DID NOT cross the picket line. The ONLY strike I was involved in was with the CWA in 1968. I walked picket line after I worked at another job in construction. If I sign onto a Union contract, I do abide by what I sign on for even if I disagree. And much of the time I do disagree. I believe more in the individuals rights than the collective rights of a Union. A concept you need to really analyze before it is too late. If you want to be successful you will have to get out of the collective union mode. There are NO MORE 55 retirement jobs working for someone else. That is gone. Even government jobs unless elected, are not giving free health care. We have a friend that works for SSI, and is near retirement age. She will NOT get free health care for life. She is paying $200+ per month now and it will go up until she reaches 65 or 66 years of age. Sorry man, too many people to feed.
It took Cadillac until the 2008 model year to bring out a world-class RWD sedan that could handle as well as the German competition. And the prior-generation Malibu just screamed "airport rental". It wasn't anything that I'd want in my driveway.
I don't fault the UAW for this, but it is one reason why I don't want my tax dollars used to prop up GM & Chrysler.
I thought the PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENT won this last election. It was totally supported by the UAW and every other Union. Having second thoughts on who is on your side? You are not listening. The Union worker cannot compete in this day and age. There are millions of illegals that will soon be vying for the same jobs you are. It is supply and demand. I can tell you I would hire someone that is hungry for a job before I would hire someone that thinks the World owes him a living. Look at the UAW workers and you will see and hear what I mean. UAW workers are nothing special. They are just unskilled labor. They can be replaced. They are being replaced and nothing can be done but accept the inevitable and get on with your life. Run for office if you think you can make any changes in our system. I don't believe it is possible. Good candidates get run over by the bad ones. And they use the ignorant masses to do their bidding.
Gee, there's no chance that people who don't have a secret ballot to vote against the union coming in will face any intimidation, is there?
No pressure, at all, right?
I'm not sure I know who this guy is. I can give you an explanation for the inflated hourly rate if you really want to know. It is mostly legacy costs. If GM sells 4 million vehicles and the legacy cost is $1500 per vehicle. How much would the legacy costs be when they only sell 2 million vehicles. I will give you a hint. $3000 per vehicle. The legacy is a fixed amount that GM bares each year. Averaging over $7Billion the last 5 years. So those costs have been tacked onto the labor for each vehicle GM builds in the USA. I am not saying it is right or wrong. It is what GM and the UAW agreed to do. At the time GM management was so clueless they thought people would keep buying GM products no matter what they put in the showrooms. Fatal error on both the UAW and GM managements part. If GM goes down to 1 million vehicles those legacy costs will be $6000 per vehicle and labor will reflect more than $154 per hour. Just simple math for someone educated in Michigan.
Can't disagree that it's a good sedan. But I do want to address the often-taken view that every car from GM has to equal or better the near competition in size and type. E.g., the past Malibu had to be better than the Accord. People would critique it to death. If they couldn't find one thing that they felt wasn't better than the Accord, then they found another, e.g., the snap made when the glovebox latched wasn't the same as the Accord therefore the Malibu was junk. Same for comparison with the German vehicles. Frankly I wouldn't purchase one because I dont' live close enough to a repair shop. But everyone wants the cars to exceed the competition in each little detail.
Another of my comments is the line addressing cars as rental fleet if it's one someone doesn't like. I see Toyotas at the rentals and I see lots of Chrysler products at the rentals. And I'm sure, I hope, there are lots of GMs sold into the rentals. But somehow rental has become a derogatory term.
The previous Malibu, in my assessment, was never meant to better the Accord, it was to be below the Accord and above the Civic in size. I felt the same ws intended with the marketing for the CTS early on. The mags want to compare to their favorite. Their favorite will never be allowed to lose. But for most ordinary people the Malibu served fine for what they bought it to do. While Honda has lots of money paid in purchase profit to repair defects in their cars, GM hasn't had that money due to the obvious reasons. The choice between trucks and cars for profit was made, right or wrong, by the MBAs and the share/bond-holders.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the business decisions made. I hopefully would have made different ones than were made. But those pesky contracts with UAW and all those older plant buildings have been a main pain. It's like the 30 year old mall that has served an area well and then a newer mall is built a few miles away. It doesn't have contracts with the tired anchor stores and brings in lots of new fad anchors and yuppie stores. Everyone starts raving about how the new mall is doing a better job and start going there. Then the older, but stable mall is in the same position in which GM has found itself. More than likely is that the cute stores in the new mall will start failing and pulling out in a few short years. The jobs for those workers will be gone because they didn't have unions or contracts. But the workers at the older mall stores that were stable anchors also are affected.
I realize this isn't a precise metaphor, simile, as a comparison.
GM's cars of the past 10 years have greatly improved. The popular price competition has actually deteriorated in quality and reliability. But it takes time for the reputations to readjust. And many people push to slow the adjustment with continual rants and raves about something long ago where GM failed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
From time to time when work needed on property, I have done usual due dilligence of selecting a contractor (referrals, interviews, looking at past jobs, etc). When contractor, or his foreman shows up on start date, many times the workers can only speak Spanish. These guys are fast, work continuously, don't screw off with too many breaks or long lunch, etc. I was especially amazed when a Drywall contractor that I signed contract for, showed up on start day with 2 Spanish speaking guys, got them started and then left. I could not believe how fast these guys worked and did good quality. Ceilings were 10 feet and these guys handled easily. The contractor then started taping/mudding the next day. Do not think that the hangers were in any kind of union - did not see any buttons on their caps. Look out unions.
The rentals are a double edged sword. I base my opinion of a vehicle on what I experience. I rent most of the time from Alamo. They have GM products. The last Malibu I had was decent and as good as the Camry I rented in Victoria BC. The Equinox I had last year in Hawaii was just JUNK. The previous Trail Blazer was very nice. My 88, 90, 93 GM 3/4ton 4X4 PU trucks were all great. I wish I still had the 93 instead of this gutless Ranger PU truck. My 2005 GMC Hybrid was not to my liking.
My point is what a car maker puts out for the public to test in a rental fleet will affect the sales to those people. The only reason I can see for GM to flood the rental market as they have in the past is to keep the legacy costs as low as possible. That gets back to the UAW millstone hung around their neck. I know some here cannot see that. It does not change the facts.
That is exactly right. It has all but eliminated the trade unions in So CA. I have a white non union friend that does masonry work with just his son. With the housing mess he cannot compete. He told me he is bidding jobs for a third of what he was 2 years ago. And losing out to people that are hungrier than he is. Rocky and the rest of his family better be ready for the onslaught when an additional 12 million hard working people get their green cards courtesy of Obama. They think it is tough now. They do not have a clue. Rocky's best move would be to learn Spanish. He knows that I am telling the truth. When all those firefighting supervisors in Oregon got demoted because they could not communicate with the Spanish speaking fire fighters. Being Bilingual will make getting a management job much easier. This has nothing to do with fair trade or globalization. It has to do with immigration and reality.
It's all a pendulum. Now it is swinging away from unions that have grown abusive and lazy. Then the elites will become the abusive ones, and the pendulum will swing back...unless the globalist elite have everyone implanted with RFID and brainwashing by then
The only way to succeed is to best the competition. That proposed Malibu strategy answers questions that were never asked, and bests nobody. Seems like a very GM strategy of the past 30 years or so.
I love the term "business decisions" - the term is usually corporate blather used to excuse poor decisionmaking by irresponsible overpaid cloned MBAs based on short term profits (personal bonuses) and nothing else. Some people understand longterm viability and sustainable profit seeking, some don't. The condition of the auto industry today reflects who got it and who didn't.
GM has improved and the competition hasn't improved as fast, or has even declined...but GM still has to be superior at the game. Making a new game isn't going to work.
Reliability findings
Ford leads the domestics
Ford's three brands-Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury-continue to pull away from the rest of the Detroit automakers. Almost all Ford models are now average or better, with the exception of some that are truck-based. Excluding those, Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers.
Chrysler Sebring
LOW The Chrysler Sebring Convertible has the worst predicted-reliability score among new cars in our survey. It is 283 percent worse than the average model.
General Motors is a mixed bag. Among the bright spots is the redesigned Chevrolet Malibu; in its first year, the four-cylinder version is better than average and the V6 is average. The Buick Lucerne with a V8 and the Pontiac G6 with a four-cylinder are above average, and the Chevrolet Avalanche has improved to average.
But a quarter of GM models are still well below average in reliability. Some that didn't fare well are fairly new designs that did well in our testing, such as the Cadillac CTS and the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, and Saturn Outlook SUV triplets. Chrysler trails the pack. Almost two-thirds of its products rate below average for reliability. The redesigned 2008 Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivans earned low scores, as did the Chrysler Sebring V6 and Dodge Avenger sedans and the Jeep Liberty SUV. The Sebring Convertible has the worst score: 283 percent worse than average. The only above-average models are the Dodge Caliber hatchback and Jeep Patriot SUV.
Regards,
OW
I agree on that. I think the masses are happy with a TV with cable and a game box. How many welfare people are we keeping in that vegetative state right now? Think New Orleans & Chicago & Detroit & Philadelphia etc etc.
Unions can survive if they could see what they are doing to the companies they are tied to. Some do and are growing. The Teamster's had a net gain of 80,000 members last year. How many did the UAW lose?
You keep referring to a fair election. That point is debatable with ACORN in the mix. I still like Palin, though I think it was probably premature to bring her out. I think this next election in 2010 will be 1994 all over again. Will it make much difference. I doubt it. We have a corrupt system. Just not as corrupt as many others in the World.
That has been my point. Why take so long to make a competetive car, as the compnay is going down the tubes, hopefully taking the UAW with it...
I couldn't agree more. Very well put.
Palin is a fine choice - for a podunk mayor or governor. Not someone who should play on a national or worldwide stage. Had someone else been picked, and maybe had someone been able to walk away from their associations with garbage such as Gramm a little earlier...maybe it could have been different. However, I doubt much would be different today, or in the future. The same forces would be in control.
I'm just waiting for the public sector unions to fail. Some of those perks seem every bit as bad as what the "capitalists" whine about regarding the UAW.
And from the car devotee that seems to be the right technique. But to the beancounter you can sell cars. The problem is how the reputation builds.
Let's face it, most people don't want a Civic with its higher costs or an Accord. They want transportation that's above mediocre to work and back when they're buying an automobile.
The millstone is the costs of older plants they can't close, the union legacy costs alter and earlier the hourly costs, and the retirees all kill any Manhattan Plan ability to invoke a truly better--to open minds--vehicle that becomes a trendsetter like a 55 Chevy was as discussed in another discussion here on Edmunds.
I didn't really realize how many people don't choose a car because they really feel it's better for this or that, they choose a car for price and basic service to get them from A to B. A long discussion with the service manager at the Buick et al dealership a few years ago made me realize that. We were talking about people not doing basic maintenance on their cars and then when something is badly wrong, they are upset at having to repair it.
This all goes back to the beancounters and the UAW costs. The union retirees should be worrying because reality is that their retirement of well laid leisure needs to become spartan in what they're receiving from GM; the salaried retirees have already had their reality cuts.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not if Sarah "I can see Russia from the coast of Alaska" Palin is part of the mix.
I don't know if the host wants to start skiing on the Utah snow-covered slopes of politics here but I can't let this stand. It's amazing how the opposition used "politics of personal destructions" (about which they complain so glibly when used on them) against Palin aided by the majority of the media. E.g., have you heard anyone totaling up Michele's wardrobe costs these days? :sick: Have you seen Michele mocked on Saturday night live--there's a lot there I could come up with for scripts?
Gimme a break. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree completely. There is something wrong with a Union that has no competition, such as the NEA. It is like why not agree to the Union's demands, we just take it from the tax payers. Then you have the tax payers that keep voting for more school bonds. So we get what we vote for. I can whine because I vote NO on every spending initiative presented to the voters. If anyone is disenfranchised it is the fiscal conservative voter in this country.
Georgia law states that if no candidate receives a simple majority of the popular vote, then the election will be decided in a run-off. On December 2, 2008, Chambliss won the run-off with 57% of vote to Martin's 43%.
Rocky! You aren't saying that the D3 don't have business ethics or morals are you? :confuse: :P
That's never stopped anyone in here before. :P And it's the slopes of Idaho I ride.
Plus, if you pick your coasts right, you can see Russia on a clear day from Alaska. Shoot, you can even swim over. Diomedes
The AFT is a competitive union to the NEA. The NEA is more of a professional association and pussyfoots around with big benefits and perks for their leaders who are political hacks while the AFT has union roots.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
yes Dear . . .
Honey our new Toyota has a noise in it.
not again Dear?
yes Honey?
OK Dear I'll bring it to the dealer like the last time at 4AM in the morning when it is still dark.
Why so early Honey.
Dear . . . I don't want the neighbors to know our new Toyota has problems,remember I did the same when we had the Honda.
Oh Honey you are so thoughtful!
Thank you Dear.
TRUE CONFESSIONS
I don't know if most of the old salaried ranks at GM from about 1970 onwards knew much reality at all. Must have been a nice ride.
Face it, she killed any chances your guys had of pulling off a win, not that they had it easy anyway after the past 8 years of mistakes. It was a huge mistake, and then to have her tutored by filth like Kissinger was the final straw. Think to the future, if you believe they have anything to offer in 3 years....2012 will be here before you know it.
On that subject, I do wonder how the other side would deal with GM and this union. Anything different? Really?
And remember, if you complain about the economy, you are a whiner :P
Given that the Civic is one of the top two selling small cars in the US, most people who want a smaller car *DO* want a Civic, even though its up-front cost is higher.
When you say "higher costs", to what are you referring? I believe the overall cost over time is lower for a Civic than most. But the purchase price is higher than many others.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/honda/civic/101061057/cto.html
Edmunds "True Cost to Own" for the Malibu .48 cents per mile for 15k miles
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/chevrolet/malibu/101028431/cto.html
YMMV
Cobalt is 51 cents/mile (interestingly enough, even more expensive than the Malibu, probably because of much poorer depreciation):
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/chevrolet/cobalt/101153334/cto.html?step=2&setzi- - - p=93021
I respectfully disagree. It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so. Technically you are right in a non-union enviroment.
Like I said earlier, it was probably more because your were going up against "family", making the kid look bad.
Perhaps now you can understand why I feel the way I do towards unions. I should of never been terminated. When GM cuts there dealer network by 1700 stores I would think they will be one of them. :mad:
-Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I probably am better off without them marsha7, but the problem is the economy is so freaken bad that jobs I'd normally be over qualified for I'm not getting due to people being even more over qualified than me. :sick:
-Rocky
>First, all US-made cars should share common parts. Why should a wheel from a Ford not fit a Chevy?
my response was thus based upon that. The author wants wheels (which are part of the identity of a vehicle) to be common. that is absolutely no possible. you need to consider offset, tire width, load carrying capacity, et al....
-Rocky