United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

iluvmysephia1

that gives me a good impression of the courts up in Canada. Good to hear that the common working man, that only wants to work and support his family, has rights that are stronger than a group of thug's rights.

Sheesh, rockford, no wonder you like a thug's NBA franchise like the Utah Jazz! Now I can draw it all together and make sense of it. Tell me, rock, are the Pittsburgh Stealers your favorite football team, too?

Oh, circlew, my first car, a 1965 Ford Mustang, with a 6cyl 200 c.i. motor and 3-speed transmission, was a living testimony to the "planned obsolescence" idea from Robert McNamara. I poured enough money in that car...the amount could supply rocky's Job's Bank with enough raspberry, gloppy donuts and Starbuck's coffee to last them 6 months. Maybe a slight exaggeration.

Let's just say that Robert M's Ford idea was working quite well in the late 70's ta the early 80's.

dieselone

Court won't enforce fines for crossing picket lines

Hmm, that's a far cry from baseball bats being used on those who cross a picket line. LOL.

I'm not a bit scared of the average union member. Many of them are well into their 50's, 50lbs over weight and one burger from a heart attack. They are more likely to hurt themselves swinging the bat (would that be workman's comp. LOL).

iluvmysephia1

you don't think UAW members are looking for a government handout, Workman's Comp, do you? They're already extorting enough from GM, Ford and Chrysler to build an empire of pain.

gagrice

Many of them are well into their 50's, 50lbs over weight and one burger from a heart attack.

You nailed it. I remember all the rough talk when the Teamster's were anticipating a strike in Alaska. They make a lot of guttural sounds about all they plan to do to anyone crossing the picket line. On the RARE occasion there was a strike. I was never part of one, only mandatory picket duty. Most did not cross. The Teamster's ended up losing a fortune when a group of the members sued over having to walk picket duty on another bargaining units strike. The drill was you were fined if you did not walk so many hours per week. ALL members of local 959 were required to walk. We made a party of our time, I was walking with a bunch of good looking telephone operators. Tough duty.

chikoo

>Standardizing common components, moreover, increases competition;

Competition between badge makers? because that would be the only change ROFL

Same engine, same wheels, same seats, ....

circlew

Parts that last not exact same seats and wheels. Components you can't see but make the car work for more than 6 years! Think BMW inline 6....

Heck, someone compared the steering wheel on the 'vette and Cobalt.

Expand your thinking!

Regards,
OW

andre1969

In addition to the dubious business model of planned obsolescence, the auto industry never implemented interchangeable parts between makes and models. As a result, the auto-parts market has grown into the billions.

Chrysler was actually pretty good about parts interchangeability...at least, once upon a time, they were. I remember once, ordering ball joints for my '68 Dart from a catalog, I noticed that just about every car Mopar made from roughly the 1957 "Forward Look" cars to the 1981 R-bodies, used the same ball joints. Or at least, I do remember the pricing was the same.

In contrast, when I had to get ball joints for my '67 Catalina, the only interchangeable parts were full-size 1967-68 Pontiacs. The 1966 wouldn't work, and neither would the 1969, even though from 1965-1970, it was all the same basic car. Also, a similar year Chevy, Buick, or Olds B-body, while also the same basic car, would not work. Oh well...I guess that kept the parts manufacturers happy!

BTW, a Ford wheel will *almost* fit on a Chrysler. Both used a 4.5" on 5 bolt pattern. However, the bearing hub on the Chryslers was bigger, so the center cutout on a Mopar wheel was larger. One thing that really bugged me about wheels was how GM had a 4.75" on 5 bolt pattern for compacts, intermediates, and big Chevies, and 5" on 5 for big Pontiac/Olds/Buicks and Cadillacs. Seriously, is 1/4" enough to really make a difference? Made for a real pain when I wanted to get some Rally 2 wheels for my '67 Catalina. They're common in the 4.75" bolt pattern, as they were popular on GTO's, Firebirds, LeManses, and Grand Prixes. Not so common on Catalinas and Bonnevilles.

circlew

I had a '68 Dart GT. Loved it.

I think it's gotten worse over time but the future needs to contract the number of parts needed across all manufacturers...and increase the durability, no doubt.

Regards,
OW

gagrice

MILAN (AP) — Automaker Fiat Group SpA will walk away from a deal to take a 20-percent stake in Chrysler LLC if the U.S. automaker's unions don't agree to major cost cuts, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne said in an interview published Wednesday.

"Absolutely we are prepared to walk. There is no doubt in my mind," Marchionne told the Toronto Globe and Mail. "We cannot commit to this organization unless we see light at the end of the tunnel.

Marchionne said there is a 50 percent chance the deal will fail because of lack of progress in labor negotiations in both the United States and Canada.

"The dialogue is out of sync," Marchionne said. "I think they need to see what state the industry is in. Canada and the U.S. are coming in as the lender of last resort. ... No one else would put a dollar in. This is the worst condemnation of the viability of this business.

Marchionne said no one wants to remove the U.S. and Canadian autoworkers' unions from the table. "But it will happen if a bankruptcy process drags on. The UAW and the CAW have a unique opportunity here to change the framework of the discussion."

My bet is the UAW would rather have nothing than give in. Real bright bunch of goons. They still think it is 1998 and Wagoner the wimp is in charge. Real CEOs would have busted them 30 years ago for their attitude about work.

iluvmysephia1

that the UAW is gonna hold firm and not give anything back regarding Fiat joining Chrylser. Goons and/or thugs without a cause.

I wouldn't want to be in the UAW because I'd be cheerleading everyone right now to give back 30% of wages and some bene's to boot.

mikefm58

Pathetic, but not surprising. I bet they think they can call Fiat's "bluff". I've wanted a Challenger since they came out and have been waiting for the employee pricing on that, but now am having second thoughts as it's made in Canada by the CAW.

iluvmysephia1

GM Models thread here on Edmunds, it's the CAW that are trying to hold the line more than the UAW's. I didn't realize that until reading that over there.

The Fiat CEO is saying things to the effect that they CAW's "must not know what shape the industry's really in" or words to that effect. It's a classic Union showdown, only in this instance the CAW may be doing their best to doom the deal from even happening.

Is there some clause in their contract that pays them handsomely if they lose their job, other than standard unemployment insurance? I mean, I see what the Fiat guys means here.

BTW-that new Dodge Challenger is an awesome looking car. I would go for the silver with black stripes or the orange with black stripes. Are you getting the SRT8 or whatever it is, the more expensive one?

cooterbfd

".....I think the sentiment is even worse against the UAW in April 2009....YA THINK?"

What is the sentiment of your co-workers in Fremont, Ca.?

marsha7

a headline that GM is supposed to accelerate the shutdown of 1700 dealers soon in order to "prepare" for a bankruptcy filing June 1, in addition to the 200 dealers that have shut down this past quarter...the article said that there may be a buyer for Saturn and Hummer, and that 2800 dealers had shut down back when Oldsmobile was discontinued...

Maybe GM has the same problem as Starbucks, in that there are simply "too many" dealers selling "not enough" cars...while I feel for those closing dealers and their employees, they are really no different than the UAW, as there are way too many UAW people making cars that no one is buying, so they must cut them back, the same applies to cutting back the dealers as GM does not sell enough cars to keep them all open...

The strong will survive, and there will be fewer of them...every little town does not need its own Chevrolet dealer or Ford dealer...

While the article does not say this, I would bet that the number of Cadillac dealers slated to close would be few, because I don't suppose that they were overbuilt with one in every town..

this also lends credence to the posters here, along with me, who think that the new GM will be Chevrolet, Caddy, Truck Division, and maybe one other...Saturn and Hummer are goners, and I would guess Saab, Pontiac and Buick...that means lemko will just be stuck buying Cadillacs and no more Buicks... :P

I think Atlanta has 4 Caddy dealers, and 12 million Chevy dealers...

tlong

I wonder if one of the reasons C got 30 days and GM got 60 is that Obama knew GM would be staring at C going belly up as they were approaching their own deadline?

jet0ne

...when a union boss tells his members that they have the RIGHT to make 70.00 per hour in salaries and benefits and they also HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY of ACTUALLY DOING THEIR JOB RIGHT then I might consider them as something other than a bunch of con artists. oh and congrats to all of you for destroying another little part of America.

rockylee

If you have low enough morals to steal another persons job while he is trying to settle a contract dispute you get what is coming too ya is the way I feel. I don't agree with the floating face down in the river scenario but perhaps a trip in the ambulance so he can't make it to work to replace you is acceptable.

-Rocky

rockylee

I don't believe every place of work needs a union. Some employers have enough business ethics and morals to not need one. However my last dealership I worked at well I could of used one because it's the first place I've ever been terminated all because I gave my opinion in a respectful tone. I was very concerned because any dealership that only sells 4 new vehicles the previous and doesn't make "change" to fix it well they will be out of business and I didn't want to work for my 3rd dealership that closed is all.

-Rocky

rockylee

That is because unions have been neutered thanks to right to work for less laws and treasonist politicians. :sick:

-Rocky

rockylee

W/E :P

-Rocky

rockylee

I suggested that Rocky get his fellow employees to sign UAW cards before he went in and told the boss he was not running his business very well. Then he would have protection under NLRB rules. Though I doubt he would get 25% willing to sign a card.

I never thought the day I came back from taking my first day off my job was on the line. I didn't have enough rapport with my coworkers nor would I've ever thought in my wildest dreams I'd need it over making a respectful suggestion. As Marsha7, said they will be out of business in due time and I'll get the last laugh!!! :mad:

My guess is probably less than 20% or Michigan people are sympathetic to the UAW workers and retirees. There are 10 million people in the state and about 1.2 million unemployed. The average income in the state is about half what the 200k UAW workers get. So the UAW old timers are the rich that are ruining it for all the rest with their high wages and restrictive work rules, that is killing GM and Chrysler.

I don't know what the percentage would be for sympatheizers but many people around here blame unfree market capitalism that you embrace. That is a shared feeling around here no matter what your political stripes are.

-Rocky

rockylee

rocky, I have a GM/UAW question for ya. What happened to all of those great car body designers from the 60's? Were they UAW members? Look at the '62 Chevy Nova II, Bel Air, the '65 Chevy Malibu. The Malibu from '65, as probably all of you remember, was that squared-off bodystyle. Man, I bought a Revell model of that rig, painted it red like my '08 Lancer GTS, and it rocks my house like Foghat. That is a beautiful car! The later Nova's were cool, the '68 Camaro. I know Chev is coming out with a new Camaro, and it looks good, but I just feel it's a real shame that Chev just dropped their brains in the 70's, along with Mopar products and Ford, and put out the junk to America in that decade. Come on, the Pinto and Vega? No wonder I call gasoline ghastly, and want to go all-electric for our next rig.

Most of them I assume either are dead or retired and no they weren't UAW members.

-Rocky

P.S. I think the cars made today look a lot better than most of those beasts from the 50's and 60's. The only car I thought was a beauty back then was a 58' Corvette. Outside of that I'll take what we make today. :shades:

chetj

condolences on The Bird, a great guy and great pitcher..i am from Nh, he is from mass...i was 11 years old in his rock star summer of 1976, red sox were avg , but the bird owned baseball that year along with big red machine...i think GM will go bankrupt and it will be good for them in long run...our orders form ford arent that bad, but toyota has dropped quite a bit at my supplier job...chrysler orders more than i thought they would

rockylee

lemko, that is what gagrice wants. He doesn't care about human rights. If there unsafe machines chew up a few kids that are forced labor and it saves him a nickle well that is just the cost of doing business. Whatever is the cheapes right, Gary? :sick:

-Rocky

rockylee

The Bird was before my time pal. I'm 30 years old.

i think GM will go bankrupt and it will be good for them in long run...our orders form ford arent that bad, but toyota has dropped quite a bit at my supplier job...chrysler orders more than i thought they would

I give them a 50/50 chance to recover from bankruptcy. It all will depend on how it's handled. That is the key IMHO.

-Rocky

rockylee

I hope everyone of them blows up on the drivers!!!! :mad:

-Rocky

rockylee

You won;t find many people (except UAW workers) who would give the Union credit for Toyota's pay scale

You are living in fantasy world by thinking anything different. :confuse:

I think the sentiment is even worse against the UAW in April 2009....YA THINK?

Sure when you have media outlets like Fixed News painting a story other than reality. :sick:

-Rocky

chetj

i am a patriot fan and i was really mad about that stealer sb over cards...warner and stupid pass to harrison for td was real annoying...my wife had her pastor over to watch game and her fat [non-permissible content removed] heathen husband yelled out "jesus" when warner gave stealers 7 points...it was a little embarrassing haha...but i dont go to church anyways...it was a great run for zona though, they have sucked or been mediocre since 1948...so close yet so far...i think east coast fans are more intense and probably bigger jerks than out west

rockylee

Why did they hide recalls for 8 years in the 1990's??? They had no recalls and I'm not drunk on the yota Kool-Aid to believe anyone can perfect car making for 8 years solid. They got busted and imidazol97, can provide you many links showing stories on here and abroad with upset Toyota customers.

-Rocky

chetj

i would rather give $$$ to exxon anyday than buffett and this chinese &^%$&&^%$....i hope obama makes this tird assemble the junk here at least...china makes GM do it

rockylee

The US and Unions like the UAW have taken it to the other extreme. Unsustainable wage packages and work rules that make it impossible for a company to even get 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. Add to that environmental regulations that are so restrictive many of the products we buy in this country cannot be made in this country. Such as the recently MANDATED CFL bulbs & hybrid battery cells.

If I was your age or Rocky's I would be looking for some place that you can live off of the land and provide all your own energy, water & food. Within the next 20 years you will have to raise your own food or die of starvation.

I don't believe in your "brave new world" that land ownership will be allowed by peasants. I think in your "brave new world" we will be packed like sardines in a efficiency apartment if we are that lucky eating out the the elites garbage can.

-Rocky

chetj

if usa gets as bad as some predict, then things will get very violent...hungry people are desperate...i have no doubts unions would use baseball bats at a strike, right or wrong...now if we somehow could get to the banksters

rockylee

Rocky wants us to think that currency manipulation & unfair trade practices are behind the D3's woes, but the truth is that somewhere along the line, the domestic builders forgot how to design cars that made us hungry to own them.

It's hard to win when your competition has all the advantages. Toyonda has more of an advantage than Stockton & Malone playing Payton and Shawn Hemp. I had to take a jab at iluv with his ridiculous comments of late. :P The problem is people like you and iluv have a very hard time recognizing the difference and can't see the advantages.

-Rocky

chetj

my company makes some gaskets for GM, hope it wasnt us..just tonite the boss said adhesive on aluminum was missing on gasket and was sent to our factory in manchester, NH to be molded

chetj

my wifes friends subaru engine almost blew up, it had to be replaced...it was only 5 years old and was maintained

chetj

gary payton is 2nd best guard in nba history?....i think magic mightve beat him out...oscar robertson, jerry west and others i cant remember...payton wasnt even best guard in sonics history, that would go to the late great dennis johnson who helped his teams win 3 titles and go to 6 nba finals...one ring with sonics in 1979..ray allen was no slouch either...payton went to one finals and was roadkill for the bulls...they call kemp the father of our country..9 kids by 9 women

rockylee

calls scabs are simply people who are grateful for a job and want to work...to end up face down in the river for crossing a picket line is criminal, and shows what the union is afraid of...people who want to work...

It shows that not all people especially scabs have any morals, integrity, self respect. If you want to work well go find another job. Don't take mine during a labor dispute. :mad:

A picket line is nothing sacred...considering the UAW, it is probably somebody who realizes that they aren't worth half what they are paid (remember, over $25/hour to sweep the floor), and would actually be grateful to work...corssing the picket line would be the smartest thing one could do in an attempt to keep a job...

I guess if you are a moral "coward" (Not the word I really want to use) then yeah go cross it. Your employer will never respect you. Ours certainly didn't and considered all scabs as narks and couldn't be trusted or counted on. So yeah marsha7, it doesn't suprise me a bit that you have so much respect for scum. :sick:

UAW people always know when they have the right to strike...but when anyone else decides to exercise THEIR rights, the UAW gets violent...they know the truth, they aren't worth a hill of beans, and they use violence and intimidation to scare people into acting with them...shows the class level and the simple lack of average intelligence of UAW workers...great show, rocky...

Your damn straight!!!

Employers should have the right to fire anyone who strikes, and hire anyone else who wants to work...employees should have the right to cross any picket line w/o fear of harm if they want to work and do not agree with the union demands...let the best man win...

I don't agree. We had 4 scabs cross ours and they will work the rest of there careers isolated. They are hated with a passion. Nobody including management respects them. One of the scabs was caught in bed with a coworkers wife. What a great human being, eh? I assume you respect him because you respect people without character as you've shown everybody. :sick:

-Rocky

rockylee

The basic intimidation and criminal mind that would harm another human that does not believe the way they do, is the best argument against EFCA legislation. Card Check will set the US back at least 100 years in the Global economy we are a part of.

So EFCA was on Rush, today? You really need to read the details of the legistlation before you make such outrageous comments.

Thankfully Obama knows that as well as many of the less ignorant in our Congress. The UAW members would do well to ask themselves how can I make the company I work for profitable? Not how much can I get today and screw the company.

They can't make the company profitable with such economic disadvantages. We need national healthcare for starters and jobs so people can afford to buy cars.

-Rocky

rockylee

If it was illegal why would they need intimidation? Is that all the Unions are good for? Intimidating workers into believing the BS they promote? Just so you do not think you know what you are talking about. This case was just lost by the Union in Canada. The court will not even uphold the UNIONS rules for crossing a picket line. There is NO LAW AGAINST CROSSING A PICKET LINE.

Well it was at one time. Canada, is selling there workers down the river it looks like. That is really sad. :sick: I guess the unions will have to resort to other tactics to to keep scabs at bay. :mad:

You are losing credibility believing what you here at the UAW hall.

I heard that from my former union not from the UAW.

-Rocky

rockylee

that gives me a good impression of the courts up in Canada. Good to hear that the common working man, that only wants to work and support his family, has rights that are stronger than a group of thug's rights.

If the majority of union members thought like you no wonder why the SPEEA strike failed. :sick:

Sheesh, rockford, no wonder you like a thug's NBA franchise like the Utah Jazz! Now I can draw it all together and make sense of it. Tell me, rock, are the Pittsburgh Stealers your favorite football team, too?

I respect teams and people who stand firm in what they believe in. I have little use for people that are cowards and will cave in under pressure. Jerry Sloan, teaches mental toughness and it has paid off. That is why your Sonics went home with there tails between there legs most playoff seasons. I am a Lions fan but I respect the Steelers thus I will root for them against many teams. I was pulling for Big Ben when he whipped your Seahawks. I however pulled for Kurt Warner, last year because I also like rooting for the underdog. Sadly the UAW is the underdog and is being blamed for all the woes at the Big 3. It's easier pointing the finger at the lowest man on the totem pole. We have been dumbed down for years in this country that the elites have all the answers and the average Joe isn't smart enough thus he shouldn't have a voice. It is laughable how offensive many of you get about individual rights yet the neocon globalist want you to keep your mouth shut and with there money and influence they have the resources to "spin" any issue to fit there agenda. Sadly many people take the bait hook, line and sinker. I am not that submissive nor will I ever be!!!

-Rocky

rockylee

I'm suprised you didn't cross based on all your anti-union ranting or was it different because it was your pay and benefits that were on the line and you didn't want to lose them??? I guess it's easy for you playing armchair QB now because you can keep collecting your fat pension check and rant all you want on what other people should do. :confuse:

-Rocky

PMO

I to would like to thank you, for I have found the tone has changed in that you are listening or taking another stance and that is off the necks of a worker that has a family and Kids and all he askes for is a job to feed them and god bless them Educate them.

rockylee

My bet is the UAW would rather have nothing than give in. Real bright bunch of goons. They still think it is 1998 and Wagoner the wimp is in charge. Real CEOs would have busted them 30 years ago for their attitude about work.

If they accept they might end up with nothing anyways. Do you really believe Fiat and Chrysler are really going to be able to change the landscape and there position in this country??? I sure in the hell don't and neither does the "experts" that have looked into what Fiat brings to the table. They (Fiat) are on the verge of bankruptcy also thus why would any "goon" in there right mind sign off on a failing proposal??? :confuse:

-Rocky

rockylee

I was hoping that you automotive enthusiast would have enough sense by now to not embrace such a failed proposal. This merger is dead on arrival. It will not work.

lemko, fintail, imidazol97, cooterbfd, do any of you guys think Fiat is in a financial position to save Chrysler??? :surprise:

-Rocky

rockylee

Good question cooterbfd!!!!

-Rocky

rockylee

a headline that GM is supposed to accelerate the shutdown of 1700 dealers soon in order to "prepare" for a bankruptcy filing June 1, in addition to the 200 dealers that have shut down this past quarter...the article said that there may be a buyer for Saturn and Hummer, and that 2800 dealers had shut down back when Oldsmobile was discontinued...

Maybe GM has the same problem as Starbucks, in that there are simply "too many" dealers selling "not enough" cars...while I feel for those closing dealers and their employees, they are really no different than the UAW, as there are way too many UAW people making cars that no one is buying, so they must cut them back, the same applies to cutting back the dealers as GM does not sell enough cars to keep them all open...

The strong will survive, and there will be fewer of them...every little town does not need its own Chevrolet dealer or Ford dealer...

I can agree that there is way too many dealerships. Too many rural dealerships and the return of buying a car in the big city will become a reality once again.

While the article does not say this, I would bet that the number of Cadillac dealers slated to close would be few, because I don't suppose that they were overbuilt with one in every town..

this also lends credence to the posters here, along with me, who think that the new GM will be Chevrolet, Caddy, Truck Division, and maybe one other...Saturn and Hummer are goners, and I would guess Saab, Pontiac and Buick...that means lemko will just be stuck buying Cadillacs and no more Buicks...

Buick will be saved. The rest I agree are goners.

I think Atlanta has 4 Caddy dealers, and 12 million Chevy dealers...

I thought all of you purchased Kia's in Georgia, no??? :P

-Rocky

rockylee

Who is making $70.00 an hour??? :confuse: I guess you like many posters forgot your fact card when making such outrageous claims. Where did you read or hear that from??? Fixed News or was it Rush ranting about the UAW??? It couldn't be Glen Beck because he says they make $154 dollars an hour. :surprise:

-Rocky

rockylee

I don't have my hopes up very high that this will be handled correctly.

-Rocky

rockylee

They will have to lead the revolt. The only good that will come out of such desperate times would be a return of the government to the people.

-Rocky

srs_49

f you have low enough morals to steal another persons job ...

See, that's an attitude problem right there. It is not HIS job! It's a job provided by the company, to be (theoretically, in any case) filled by anyone qualified to do the work.