Unfortunately, though, the economy is going to collapse under the health care weight at some point, probably soon.
I do feel for the hard working UAW members and hope when this is all over in a few years that the good ones find it a blessing in disguise. The lazy ones will probably end up being supported by the taxpayers.
My FIL and my grandpa lost their healthcare coverage back when LTV went belly up in '99
You mean to tell me the greatest President of all times, did not take care of those working folks in need. Shame on him. There is a lot of the stimulus aimed at a healthcare plan. I don't think it will be the freebie Rocky envisions. The middle class worker will just be paying more to cover all those that are on welfare.
" It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so."...again, rocky and I disagree...if there was a bargaining contract, that is one thing...the minute they walk the picket line or strike, that contrcat has been breached and broken...the worker is no longer owed ANYTHING and you need to understand that...your attitude comes from that Divine Right theory that says that if I paid you for one hour, I have employed you for life...the real world, outside of the UAW, does not work that way...from the way you talk, rocky, you make it sound like a UAW job should be created for one person to open and close the gate every day...mind you, that person only works 30 second to unlock it and 30 seconds 8 hours later to lock it, and you think a fulltime position with benefits and retirement should be ,made for someone who works 1 minute a day, simply because that is the way you grew up...I am waiting for you to try and tell me how he dedicated his life to the company and how "skilled" he is at locking and unlocking gates...welcome to the REAL world, and UAW it isn't...
I was cruising and reading, dismissing everything posted by rocky and glued to everything posted by gagrice until I saw...
The Law Firm of Marsha and Rocky...and I almost lost my dinner...
Rocky could write up all those union contracts and get paid for it...then I would file bankruptcy for the firms and void all those union contracts and get paid for that!!!...what a country!!!
rocky, your thinking, as always, is somewhere off in outer space, but I still respect anyone who speaks their mind in the middle of an obvious problem...and yes, in a family business, you will always have the short end of the stick...but an intelligent, open minded business owner should welcome (constructive) criticism IMO...since this oen could not face the fact that his family was the problem, you are just as well being out of there...that does not mean to rule out family businesses, because some of them appreciate the opinions of outsiders, as long as they are intelligent opinions...if all you tried to do was unionize the family against the owner-father, that would not be the best thing to do...
No, I do NOT need a partner...Law Firm of Marsha & Rocky, my a**... :confuse:
i may be over steping it, but if more people did that we wouldnt be in this situation.
Welcome to the Forum. All input is good. I think you have hit on one aspect left out of this discussion for the most part. Just how UNITED are the UAW workers? How many would be willing to sacrifice to save the auto industry jobs. Not enough I would guess.
You stated many times now those manufacturing jobs are so skill-intensive that only masters-of-universe-cream-of-the-crop UAW superskilled assembly line worker can perform it.At the same time we all see the companies moving them to all those inferior (according to you) parts of the country and the world, where all those "inferior" people perform them and many times they send here product that is superior to the one that was assembled by those masters of the universe union workers. There are only two possible conclusions from those two facts: 1. You are wrong: UAW assembly workers are not such masters of universe cream of the crop and manufacturing jobs do not require such great skills. OR 2. You are wrong: people in those "inferior" regions are not as inferior as you want to believe.
Actually there is a third possible conclusion. It is 1 AND 2 simoulteusly. :P
Remember, rocky knows nothing but UAW people and UAW thinking...they have told him since birth that they made the best cars in the world, and that included the Vega, Pacer, Pinto and Cimarron, and he believes it completely...
And, while I would admit that Michigan grade schools are probably better then Georgia, one does not need an education to perform UAW tasks, as the work is called by anybody as unskilled labor...it was Iaccoca who stated that most of his employees at Chrysler could not read a simple warning sign...
He also likes to think that everyone is the South has no teeth, yet, like you say, this is where the industry is moving, including Saturn being based in Spring Hill, Tennessee...if he likes Saturns, it is the same Southerners that make Honda and Toyota...so, either everyone here is stupid, or maybe the silled work simply isn't skilled at all...OR...rocky's own skill level is so low that he thinks that tightening five lug nuts or sweeping the floor takes great skill, in which case we really have a problem bigger then we thought...for years the UAW stated they made the best cars while more and more people left them year by year...
We could see the obvious truth, but anyone in the UAW is genetically incapable of seeing what any pre-school child could see...all they know is that they have been told they make the best and they think that, like the students who graduate high school illiterate but have the best self-esteem...so, they respect themselves, but when they find out they cannot read, no one else respects them, but sees them for the idiots they are...
Interesting case study. The bits about the bean counters and yes men/sycophantic culture don't surprise me...GM corporate upper ranks have been every bit as destructive and parasitic as the worst hungover UAW worker - and as they are upper ranks with cookie cutter credentials and ties, the free marketeers won't give them the crucifixion they deserve. Too bad it doesn't include recent history, and the eventual irrelevance of all of the "next big thing" products since hype has become job one.
The author seems to agree that the company was washed up even when that piece was written. If you can't make money with profit loaded SUVs, you can't make it with mediocre cars.
Management owns every bit of the downfall as much as the UAW.
he author seems to agree that the company was washed up even when that piece was written. If you can't make money with profit loaded SUVs, you can't make it with mediocre cars.
Management owns every bit of the downfall as much as the UAW.
No doubt. GM's culture has been self-destructive from top to bottom for decades.
I assume you are brand new to the edmunds forums and want to say welcome. I agree that the UAW made plenty of mistakes but if GM, would of engineered a line-up of world class cars back in the 1970's, 80's, 90's and early-mid 2000's this would be a moot issue as GM, would of never lost it's #1 position and market share. :sick: Now that GM's market share has declined and the job less numbers keep piling up well people quit buying cars and the ones with them well have either taken a pay and/or benefit cut thus killing there disposable income. If they need a car many are buying used. I understand the market pretty well because I've sold cars at 3 different dealerships two of which are no longer in business. Our local mall which was built around 2001 just filed BK thus people must not be shopping or spending enough.
That is my take. If you've read any of my earlier posts I still think the majority of the blame is on domestic economic issues of unfree-trade with other nations and currency manipulation. Lets also not forget that BIG OIL played it's role in killing our economy. They have oil tankers floating around in the alantic artifically manipulating oil suplly and demand to make the fat cats richer. Maybe the car cartel should pool togeather to limit the number of new cars they sell to drive up prices? :P I had to be a smart [non-permissible content removed] with that one.
I as you know have been a big supporter for "national healthcare" for a very long time. Remember brightness04, marsha7, and a few others have labeled me a socialist which I don't take as a insult dieselone. I think I'm to conservative on too many issues to be one but on national healthcare I've been for it a long time now.
Most of the immigrants legal and illegal are either Catholic or Muslim. Neither believe in birth control or abortion. You cannot say you were not informed. BO promised amnesty and more tolerance to all groups if elected. When you are working for $12 per hour what other kind of fun can you afford?
Come-on you can watch Keith Olbermann, like our good buddy imidazol97 and you might learn some facts behind Rush's ranting.
The wise UAW worker is getting educated for another line of work. The ones that have not saved a lot for retirement will be hurting big time over the next 10 years. Michigan will become a welfare state. The government will buy up those empty houses and start warehousing their votes for the up coming elections. Maybe you should become a community organizer. It is the prerequisite for becoming President. A law degree from an Ivy league college helps. I still don't understand why you don't want to be a cop. It is similar to being in the UAW. You get to bust heads and beat perps.
I don't want to be a cop Gary. I would rather do Corrections. I don't want to mess with all the paperwork. I have friends that are and were in law enforcement that tell me to avoid being a police officer. I couldn't handle seeing women and children beaten in homes causing me to lose my job from excessive force. I'm being dead serious I don't think I would be a good one despite what my personality profile says.
I had hoped that with all the school shootings that these colleges would hire armed security. I personally think it should be a federal law that armed security should be in colleges, malls, concerts, sports arena's, etc. I would perfect for that line of work.
True but here is the quick fix by your Führer Rocky: The first thing Rocky, would due is give advance notice to corporate america your day of global capitalism is coming to a crashing end. If you want to sell your product here in the United States, well you have to build it here or face a 100% Tariff. Bingo, problem solved!!! How? Well the tens of millions of good paying jobs that were out sourced would be in sourced causing a shortage of labor (Think Free Market :P ) causing labor rates to go up across the board creating a "level playing field" for all business to compete on. Poor people would have disposable income to buy cars. Marsha7, might go BK because nobody would need his services anymore as the economy would be running like a well oiled machine and a missing and much needed tax base would be created to fund national healthcare.
I would ship back all the illegal aliens and land mine the border and would have ground sensors for the tunnel diggers. I might even go one step further and store Nuclear Material in the ground all along the border thus resolving Yucca Mountains problem. Trust me this stuff would be so hot you would drop dead from radiation poisoning if you got 100 yards near it thus we wouldn't have any more border crossers or drug smugglers. Two birds with one stone and hold the applause because I already know I'm a genius. :P
Want me to solve any more domestic issues gagrice???
-Rocky
P.S. Man maybe I do need to run for public office!!!
tlong, Yeah it is about 10 or so years old and it was focused on the car industry and not so much on domestic issues. I hope you got a good fill of how management thought back then. It's kinda scary how these "educated" people think. It tells me that I'd rather have a lot more common sense than only book smarts.
It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so."...again, rocky and I disagree...if there was a bargaining contract, that is one thing...the minute they walk the picket line or strike, that contrcat has been breached and broken...the worker is no longer owed ANYTHING and you need to understand that...your attitude comes from that Divine Right theory that says that if I paid you for one hour, I have employed you for life...the real world, outside of the UAW, does not work that way...from the way you talk, rocky, you make it sound like a UAW job should be created for one person to open and close the gate every day...mind you, that person only works 30 second to unlock it and 30 seconds 8 hours later to lock it, and you think a fulltime position with benefits and retirement should be ,made for someone who works 1 minute a day, simply because that is the way you grew up...I am waiting for you to try and tell me how he dedicated his life to the company and how "skilled" he is at locking and unlocking gates...welcome to the REAL world, and UAW it isn't...
There were times that is literally all I did while working at Pantex, especially during holidays. Just because a person doesn't have a hard job or one that day doesn't make his position important. In my case I would be watching a "zone" or "sector" and if anyone came into my area I would look to see if they were a threat or not and go from there. I had thousands of rounds of ammunition at my disposal at some of my posts along with weaponry that I could reach out an touch somebody to destroy light armored vehicles from lets just say many meters away. I might of unlocked only a gate or two that day on the job. I got paid for what I might have to do which might include my life which I would of given proudly to protect my turf and country.
I was cruising and reading, dismissing everything posted by rocky and glued to everything posted by gagrice until I saw...
You listen to people like Rush, but won't listen to me??? How could you!!! :P
The Law Firm of Marsha and Rocky...and I almost lost my dinner...
LOL, tlong did make my day with that one.
Rocky could write up all those union contracts and get paid for it...then I would file bankruptcy for the firms and void all those union contracts and get paid for that!!!...what a country!!!
LOL....Rocky, would write a contract unlike any other that's for sure. If I could rewrite the UAW contract I would go for as much wage as I could for the UAW workers and try to get the union to set up some sort of health insurance plan through the union.
rocky, your thinking, as always, is somewhere off in outer space, but I still respect anyone who speaks their mind in the middle of an obvious problem...and yes, in a family business, you will always have the short end of the stick...but an intelligent, open minded business owner should welcome (constructive) criticism IMO...since this oen could not face the fact that his family was the problem, you are just as well being out of there...that does not mean to rule out family businesses, because some of them appreciate the opinions of outsiders, as long as they are intelligent opinions...if all you tried to do was unionize the family against the owner-father, that would not be the best thing to do...
The sad thing is Marsha7, is the day before I and the owner were high-fiving as I told him how well he did in his interview with the local news. He asked my opinion and I told him he looked great and did a great job. I guess that is why I was so stunned he didn't get involve and hear my side of the story. All I got was a exit interview with the F&I manager. It was the most odd thing I've ever seen in my working career and I might be paying for it now finding that next job. :sick:
No, I do NOT need a partner...Law Firm of Marsha & Rocky, my a**...
I think I'm going to go enroll in law school. I think Columbia, sounds about right. I will send you the bill since you are so damn interested in sponsoring me!!! :P
You stated many times now those manufacturing jobs are so skill-intensive that only masters-of-universe-cream-of-the-crop UAW superskilled assembly line worker can perform it.At the same time we all see the companies moving them to all those inferior (according to you) parts of the country and the world, where all those "inferior" people perform them and many times they send here product that is superior to the one that was assembled by those masters of the universe union workers. There are only two possible conclusions from those two facts: 1. You are wrong: UAW assembly workers are not such masters of universe cream of the crop and manufacturing jobs do not require such great skills. OR 2. You are wrong: people in those "inferior" regions are not as inferior as you want to believe.
Actually there is a third possible conclusion. It is 1 AND 2 simoulteusly.
If you show a parrot how to do something over and over and over again for hours, days, and weeks well they like AJ did will eventually catch on.
The Chinese could not make Multec 2 fuel injectors despite millions wasted by Delphi and is why they still build em' here in the U.S. They can build Multec 3 because it doesn't require as much skill and are simpiler. Get my point???
My other point is you will never get the quality control from forced/slave labor. My criticism mainly comes from people being abused and taken advantage of like slaves. The goverment is baught and paid for and allows these human rights violations to take place. It's either learn how to do it or the next starving guy will. That is the direction of the new world order. You will be able to afford your cable TV so you can be manipulated that all is well and they have your best interests at heart.
Remember, rocky knows nothing but UAW people and UAW thinking...they have told him since birth that they made the best cars in the world, and that included the Vega, Pacer, Pinto and Cimarron, and he believes it completely...
No they did not!!!! They however taught me that not all of there cars are bad like your family obviously did you.
And, while I would admit that Michigan grade schools are probably better then Georgia, one does not need an education to perform UAW tasks, as the work is called by anybody as unskilled labor...it was Iaccoca who stated that most of his employees at Chrysler could not read a simple warning sign...
I love how many people put Iaccoa on such a high pedestal yet the only great car they ever made was a Dodge Stealth and that was a Mitsubishi. The Caravan was junk despite it's popularity. Please name me one good reliable car Chrysler, has ever made??? The only good vehicles they ever made were Jeeps. The 300 is now outdated and while it has been a decent car it's only one. The Ram has been an okay truck and would say it's finally among the best once again. I would own one. I know this will get a lot of people pissed at me but I don't care and will say it anyways.....Richard G. Wagoner, was twice the CEO as Iaccoa. Wagoner, took over during the most difficult time in GM history. We had 9/11 and Bush economics. We were really turning the corner in 2007 and Wall Street screwed Main Street thus causing all this turmoil we see today. GM, got further screwed by the Big Oil Monopoly and there record breaking profits. I would still like to see Obama, implement price caps on gasoline so Big Oil can't destroy our economy ever again!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
He also likes to think that everyone is the South has no teeth, yet, like you say, this is where the industry is moving, including Saturn being based in Spring Hill, Tennessee...if he likes Saturns, it is the same Southerners that make Honda and Toyota...so, either everyone here is stupid, or maybe the silled work simply isn't skilled at all...OR...rocky's own skill level is so low that he thinks that tightening five lug nuts or sweeping the floor takes great skill, in which case we really have a problem bigger then we thought...for years the UAW stated they made the best cars while more and more people left them year by year...
I wouldn't put Tennessee quite in the South. You still have enough Midwestern influence to help balance out that state!!! :P
We could see the obvious truth, but anyone in the UAW is genetically incapable of seeing what any pre-school child could see...all they know is that they have been told they make the best and they think that, like the students who graduate high school illiterate but have the best self-esteem...so, they respect themselves, but when they find out they cannot read, no one else respects them, but sees them for the idiots they are...
The UAW does make the best. The products speak for themselves and I would be more than glad to go line by line with you and show you that they are more than just competitive in most makes and models. I think you know that because you drive them yourself.
You are welcome lokki. Roger Smith was one of those arrogant and ignorant CEO's of all time. He is probably repairing EV-1's as Satan shoots a flame at his [non-permissible content removed] telling him to hurry up because down here you don't have the union you despised to protect you and I'll "FIRE" you literally!!!!
i paid thru the nose and had to go to philippines to meet my wife for her to come here...i dont mind legal immigration but just letting them come here illegally and do whatever they want and suck down benefits is bad for our country as a whole
I was a UAW member for a brief period in my pass. Most of my family worked for GM and Delphi thus they were UAW members. My grandma was a IUE union rep for 23 years. I've have a uncle who is a Teamster and another uncle who was a IBEW-Electrician. I myself have been a United Plant Guards Worker uniom member and a independent union member with the Pantex Guards Union (PGU)
I worked at Johnson Controls Inc. in Holland, MI. making car interior parts back in 99' but we were non-union. I've sold cars at 3 different dealerships where two of the three have closed. I don't expect the last one I worked at to be open when GM downsizes it's dealer network. I don't know if I'll ever sell another car in my life. It's not a good career choice in this economy and only the old timers with a clientel or good looking women that work very hard like my best friend will survive IMHO. The good news is JCI is going to make batteries here in Michigan and are suppose to hire more than 500 people but that won't be until next year. We have a casino being built which will employ 1500-2000 people and that will be done also be next year. Delphi Coopersville, will become a dairy by next year also and will employ quite a few people. So this year is looking bad but perhaps next year things will get better job wise around here. It is indeed very stressful job hunting and I hope none of you have to go through it.
I respectfully disagree. It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so. Technically you are right in a non-union enviroment.
He didn't invest anything! He/she came to work, did a job (maybe), got paid, and went back home again. And that's the extent of it.
The bondholders and stockholders are the ones who "invested" in the company. They are the ones that provided the capital for the company to operate, and for the jobs that were created. Without the bondholders and stockholders, there would be no company, so no jobs.
Ling-Temco-Vought. It was the 3rd largest steel mill in the US along with being a conglomerate in several different industries. I believe ISG took over most of their steel making assets. I know the NW Indiana mill my FIL was let go from (well he ended up taking retirement) is still operating under ISG.
I think at it's peak, LTV employed around 30k. Interestingly they reorganized under bankruptcy protection in '94, but ended up liquidating in 2001 after filing bankruptcy again in 2000 (I was a year off). LTV was not nearly the size of GM, but their bankruptcy directly effected 7,500 steel workers and 50,000 retirees with reduced pension benefits from PBGC and lost heathcare benefits
LTV was not nearly the size of GM, but their bankruptcy directly effected 7,500 steel workers and 50,000 retirees with reduced pension benefits from PBGC and lost heathcare benefits
Yes, the exact same thing happened with Bethlehem Steel and it's retirees. Bethlehem was sold to ISG in 2003, which then merged with Mittal in 2005. Somewhere in that process, the retirement obligations were taken over by the PBGC, benefits were reduced and retirees lost their health care (well, went on Medicare, I believe).
Yes, the exact same thing happened with Bethlehem Steel and it's retirees. Bethlehem was sold to ISG in 2003, which then merged with Mittal in 2005. Somewhere in that process, the retirement obligations were taken over by the PBGC, benefits were reduced and retirees lost their health care (well, went on Medicare, I believe).
Health care went to Medicare only if those effected were 65 years old. Those under had to either find other employment or pay for COBRA or some other type of coverage as it was no longer provided.
MY FIL was only like 54 when LTV went belly up so he never received any health care from LTV in retirement and his pension comes from the PBGC. Fortunately for him, my MIL has a very good job and he also qualifies for Veteran's benefits.
My grandpa was well into retirement when LTV closed, but he had Medicare to fall back on as he was in his 70's, and he was wise enough to have saved money during his working years as his pension was cut.
I personally think it should be a federal law that armed security should be in colleges, malls, concerts, sports arena's, etc. I would perfect for that line of work.
Those jobs in CA are handled by volunteers. Mostly retired policemen that don't like sitting at home watching soaps. They miss their donut breaks. I have talked to some of them that volunteer for the Sheriff's department in our little town. They were trying to get me to do one day a week riding patrol of all the area.
Corrections would be a good job. I don't know that they have the cushy retirements for new hires anymore. I think defined pensions are a thing of the past. Never to return.
Old Henry Ford was a lot like that. He had his own private security force led by the notorious thug Harry Bennett. His plants were managed by a slave-driver named "Cast-Iron" Charlie Sorensen. For all the good he did in his younger days, Old Henry went batty in his old age. He printed an anti-Semitic newspaper and even accepted a citation from Adolf Hitler.
If you want to sell your product here in the United States, well you have to build it here or face a 100% Tariff. Bingo, problem solved!
And you think the masses will go along with doubling the price of oil? There is NO magic energy alternative on the horizon. Natural gas may help for a short time. You need to stop watching Lou Dobbs. He is obviously a nut case. He cannot even draw a small viewing audience. There will be NO TARIFFS as you would like. Maybe small ones where the government like Canada is subsidizing the logging industry. You would be just like all the other politicians. You get into office and it is just like in the UAW. Some older guy comes and tells you that you go along with the group or you are history. Our Congress is run just like the Unions. You don't rock the boat and everyone is happy.
You seem to have a free spirit. Yet you buy into the one size fits all pushed by the UAW. Kind of a quandry of thought I suspect. One side says give me freedom and the other wants to be told every move. You cannot have it both ways.
Oh, if I could only bring Roger Smith back from hell for one night. I have some interesting things for him that involve an ice pick, several power tools, and a deli slicer for what he did to my beloved General Motors! He will anxiously look forward to returning to fire and brimstone of the lowest circles of hell after I'm through with him! :mad:
One thing you will notice with subsequent generations of immigrants - they have fewer children with each generation. When my Grandfather came over from Russia at the beginning of the 20th Century, he had ten children in his family - my Dad being #9 of 10. My Dad's family had only 3, and I have 0. As the decendents of immigrant families become more and more Americanized, they put off having children until later, have fewer, or none as they realize it's not economically feasible to have so many children in a modern country.
Do you own real property, a house, etc? Have you ever evaluated bids and proposals from a potential home builder, remodeler, landscape contractor, carpenter, electrical contractor, reroofer, lumberjack/tree maintenance, etc.? Have you interviewed these people or their representatives, looked at previous jobs and so forth to help decide which contractor to sign contract with? Do you stipulate in any contract for work and materials that all labor must be by "Union" carpenter, drywaller, roofer, electrician, etc?
Read a book called "Behind the Wheel at Chrysler" by Doron Levin and you'll find out how Lee Iacocca almost sunk Chrysler himself. Still, he does get credit for the original Mustang and the beautiful 1968 Lincoln Mark III.
Yeah, but he's the most visible perpetrator as is Bernie Madoff for the fiascos of the financial sector. Maybe when Bernie gets to hell they can have Roger Smith build Bernie's car and have Bernie manage Smith's finances.
It is indeed very stressful job hunting and I hope none of you have to go through it.
It was no different in 1961. I applied with Pacific Telephone the Monday after I graduated HS in June. I drove 21 miles every Monday to the employment office to see if they had any openings. I was finally given a job in the mailroom for $62.50 per week on December 11th 1961. I mowed lawns and worked for my uncle that paid minimum wage ($1.25 per hour) when he had work for me. My parents left home in 1962 and me the mortgage. They told me to try and sell the place which I did after about a year. The mortgage took almost half my salary. I was also paying health care at Pac Tel and managed to save money along the way. In 1961 the UAW workers were the fat cats in the USA. Well times change and the ones that were smart with those big wages saved a lot and will be fine. Those that didn't, who's fault is it?
Comments
Unfortunately, though, the economy is going to collapse under the health care weight at some point, probably soon.
I do feel for the hard working UAW members and hope when this is all over in a few years that the good ones find it a blessing in disguise. The lazy ones will probably end up being supported by the taxpayers.
You mean to tell me the greatest President of all times, did not take care of those working folks in need. Shame on him. There is a lot of the stimulus aimed at a healthcare plan. I don't think it will be the freebie Rocky envisions. The middle class worker will just be paying more to cover all those that are on welfare.
I also noticed it never mentions currency manipulation. :P
I was cruising and reading, dismissing everything posted by rocky and glued to everything posted by gagrice until I saw...
The Law Firm of Marsha and Rocky...and I almost lost my dinner...
Rocky could write up all those union contracts and get paid for it...then I would file bankruptcy for the firms and void all those union contracts and get paid for that!!!...what a country!!!
rocky, your thinking, as always, is somewhere off in outer space, but I still respect anyone who speaks their mind in the middle of an obvious problem...and yes, in a family business, you will always have the short end of the stick...but an intelligent, open minded business owner should welcome (constructive) criticism IMO...since this oen could not face the fact that his family was the problem, you are just as well being out of there...that does not mean to rule out family businesses, because some of them appreciate the opinions of outsiders, as long as they are intelligent opinions...if all you tried to do was unionize the family against the owner-father, that would not be the best thing to do...
No, I do NOT need a partner...Law Firm of Marsha & Rocky, my a**...
Welcome to the Forum. All input is good. I think you have hit on one aspect left out of this discussion for the most part. Just how UNITED are the UAW workers? How many would be willing to sacrifice to save the auto industry jobs. Not enough I would guess.
1. You are wrong: UAW assembly workers are not such masters of universe cream of the crop and manufacturing jobs do not require such great skills. OR
2. You are wrong: people in those "inferior" regions are not as inferior as you want to believe.
Actually there is a third possible conclusion. It is 1 AND 2 simoulteusly. :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And, while I would admit that Michigan grade schools are probably better then Georgia, one does not need an education to perform UAW tasks, as the work is called by anybody as unskilled labor...it was Iaccoca who stated that most of his employees at Chrysler could not read a simple warning sign...
He also likes to think that everyone is the South has no teeth, yet, like you say, this is where the industry is moving, including Saturn being based in Spring Hill, Tennessee...if he likes Saturns, it is the same Southerners that make Honda and Toyota...so, either everyone here is stupid, or maybe the silled work simply isn't skilled at all...OR...rocky's own skill level is so low that he thinks that tightening five lug nuts or sweeping the floor takes great skill, in which case we really have a problem bigger then we thought...for years the UAW stated they made the best cars while more and more people left them year by year...
We could see the obvious truth, but anyone in the UAW is genetically incapable of seeing what any pre-school child could see...all they know is that they have been told they make the best and they think that, like the students who graduate high school illiterate but have the best self-esteem...so, they respect themselves, but when they find out they cannot read, no one else respects them, but sees them for the idiots they are...
The author seems to agree that the company was washed up even when that piece was written. If you can't make money with profit loaded SUVs, you can't make it with mediocre cars.
Management owns every bit of the downfall as much as the UAW.
Thank you for the link to the CORPORATE GOVERNANCE CASE STUDY
That was very interesting reading.....
I wonder what Roger Smith's punishment in Hell will be for destroying GM? Trying to repair a GM Diesel, maybe?
Management owns every bit of the downfall as much as the UAW.
No doubt. GM's culture has been self-destructive from top to bottom for decades.
That is my take. If you've read any of my earlier posts I still think the majority of the blame is on domestic economic issues of unfree-trade with other nations and currency manipulation. Lets also not forget that BIG OIL played it's role in killing our economy. They have oil tankers floating around in the alantic artifically manipulating oil suplly and demand to make the fat cats richer. Maybe the car cartel should pool togeather to limit the number of new cars they sell to drive up prices? :P I had to be a smart [non-permissible content removed] with that one.
-Rocky
I as you know have been a big supporter for "national healthcare" for a very long time. Remember brightness04, marsha7, and a few others have labeled me a socialist which I don't take as a insult dieselone. I think I'm to conservative on too many issues to be one but on national healthcare I've been for it a long time now.
-Rocky
Come-on you can watch Keith Olbermann, like our good buddy imidazol97 and you might learn some facts behind Rush's ranting.
The wise UAW worker is getting educated for another line of work. The ones that have not saved a lot for retirement will be hurting big time over the next 10 years. Michigan will become a welfare state. The government will buy up those empty houses and start warehousing their votes for the up coming elections. Maybe you should become a community organizer. It is the prerequisite for becoming President. A law degree from an Ivy league college helps. I still don't understand why you don't want to be a cop. It is similar to being in the UAW. You get to bust heads and beat perps.
I don't want to be a cop Gary. I would rather do Corrections. I don't want to mess with all the paperwork. I have friends that are and were in law enforcement that tell me to avoid being a police officer. I couldn't handle seeing women and children beaten in homes causing me to lose my job from excessive force. I'm being dead serious I don't think I would be a good one despite what my personality profile says.
-Rocky
-Rocky
I would ship back all the illegal aliens and land mine the border and would have ground sensors for the tunnel diggers. I might even go one step further and store Nuclear Material in the ground all along the border thus resolving Yucca Mountains problem.
Want me to solve any more domestic issues gagrice???
-Rocky
P.S. Man maybe I do need to run for public office!!!
-Rocky
Well we've had a couple of actors and a professional wrestler as state governators - so you should do fine! I can see the commercials now.....
There were times that is literally all I did while working at Pantex, especially during holidays. Just because a person doesn't have a hard job or one that day doesn't make his position important. In my case I would be watching a "zone" or "sector" and if anyone came into my area I would look to see if they were a threat or not and go from there. I had thousands of rounds of ammunition at my disposal at some of my posts along with weaponry that I could reach out an touch somebody to destroy light armored vehicles from lets just say many meters away.
I was cruising and reading, dismissing everything posted by rocky and glued to everything posted by gagrice until I saw...
You listen to people like Rush, but won't listen to me??? How could you!!! :P
The Law Firm of Marsha and Rocky...and I almost lost my dinner...
LOL, tlong did make my day with that one.
Rocky could write up all those union contracts and get paid for it...then I would file bankruptcy for the firms and void all those union contracts and get paid for that!!!...what a country!!!
LOL....Rocky, would write a contract unlike any other that's for sure. If I could rewrite the UAW contract I would go for as much wage as I could for the UAW workers and try to get the union to set up some sort of health insurance plan through the union.
rocky, your thinking, as always, is somewhere off in outer space, but I still respect anyone who speaks their mind in the middle of an obvious problem...and yes, in a family business, you will always have the short end of the stick...but an intelligent, open minded business owner should welcome (constructive) criticism IMO...since this oen could not face the fact that his family was the problem, you are just as well being out of there...that does not mean to rule out family businesses, because some of them appreciate the opinions of outsiders, as long as they are intelligent opinions...if all you tried to do was unionize the family against the owner-father, that would not be the best thing to do...
The sad thing is Marsha7, is the day before I and the owner were high-fiving as I told him how well he did in his interview with the local news. He asked my opinion and I told him he looked great and did a great job. I guess that is why I was so stunned he didn't get involve and hear my side of the story. All I got was a exit interview with the F&I manager. It was the most odd thing I've ever seen in my working career and I might be paying for it now finding that next job. :sick:
No, I do NOT need a partner...Law Firm of Marsha & Rocky, my a**...
I think I'm going to go enroll in law school. I think Columbia, sounds about right. I will send you the bill since you are so damn interested in sponsoring me!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
1. You are wrong: UAW assembly workers are not such masters of universe cream of the crop and manufacturing jobs do not require such great skills. OR
2. You are wrong: people in those "inferior" regions are not as inferior as you want to believe.
Actually there is a third possible conclusion. It is 1 AND 2 simoulteusly.
If you show a parrot how to do something over and over and over again for hours, days, and weeks well they like AJ did will eventually catch on.
Meet AJ :shades:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Fxclwdfxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33N-ClB2Cak
The Chinese could not make Multec 2 fuel injectors despite millions wasted by Delphi and is why they still build em' here in the U.S. They can build Multec 3 because it doesn't require as much skill and are simpiler. Get my point???
My other point is you will never get the quality control from forced/slave labor. My criticism mainly comes from people being abused and taken advantage of like slaves. The goverment is baught and paid for and allows these human rights violations to take place. It's either learn how to do it or the next starving guy will. That is the direction of the new world order. You will be able to afford your cable TV so you can be manipulated that all is well and they have your best interests at heart.
-Rocky
No they did not!!!! They however taught me that not all of there cars are bad like your family obviously did you.
And, while I would admit that Michigan grade schools are probably better then Georgia, one does not need an education to perform UAW tasks, as the work is called by anybody as unskilled labor...it was Iaccoca who stated that most of his employees at Chrysler could not read a simple warning sign...
I love how many people put Iaccoa on such a high pedestal yet the only great car they ever made was a Dodge Stealth and that was a Mitsubishi. The Caravan was junk despite it's popularity. Please name me one good reliable car Chrysler, has ever made??? The only good vehicles they ever made were Jeeps. The 300 is now outdated and while it has been a decent car it's only one. The Ram has been an okay truck and would say it's finally among the best once again. I would own one. I know this will get a lot of people pissed at me but I don't care and will say it anyways.....Richard G. Wagoner, was twice the CEO as Iaccoa. Wagoner, took over during the most difficult time in GM history. We had 9/11 and Bush economics. We were really turning the corner in 2007 and Wall Street screwed Main Street thus causing all this turmoil we see today. GM, got further screwed by the Big Oil Monopoly and there record breaking profits. I would still like to see Obama, implement price caps on gasoline so Big Oil can't destroy our economy ever again!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
He also likes to think that everyone is the South has no teeth, yet, like you say, this is where the industry is moving, including Saturn being based in Spring Hill, Tennessee...if he likes Saturns, it is the same Southerners that make Honda and Toyota...so, either everyone here is stupid, or maybe the silled work simply isn't skilled at all...OR...rocky's own skill level is so low that he thinks that tightening five lug nuts or sweeping the floor takes great skill, in which case we really have a problem bigger then we thought...for years the UAW stated they made the best cars while more and more people left them year by year...
I wouldn't put Tennessee quite in the South. You still have enough Midwestern influence to help balance out that state!!! :P
We could see the obvious truth, but anyone in the UAW is genetically incapable of seeing what any pre-school child could see...all they know is that they have been told they make the best and they think that, like the students who graduate high school illiterate but have the best self-esteem...so, they respect themselves, but when they find out they cannot read, no one else respects them, but sees them for the idiots they are...
The UAW does make the best. The products speak for themselves and I would be more than glad to go line by line with you and show you that they are more than just competitive in most makes and models.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOXvpXg7vAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W405HKUwvaE
:P :P :P :P :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
I worked at Johnson Controls Inc. in Holland, MI. making car interior parts back in 99' but we were non-union. I've sold cars at 3 different dealerships where two of the three have closed. I don't expect the last one I worked at to be open when GM downsizes it's dealer network. I don't know if I'll ever sell another car in my life. It's not a good career choice in this economy and only the old timers with a clientel or good looking women that work very hard like my best friend will survive IMHO. The good news is JCI is going to make batteries here in Michigan and are suppose to hire more than 500 people but that won't be until next year. We have a casino being built which will employ 1500-2000 people and that will be done also be next year. Delphi Coopersville, will become a dairy by next year also and will employ quite a few people. So this year is looking bad but perhaps next year things will get better job wise around here. It is indeed very stressful job hunting and I hope none of you have to go through it.
-Rocky
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090417/us_nm/us_walmart_union
-Rocky
He didn't invest anything! He/she came to work, did a job (maybe), got paid, and went back home again. And that's the extent of it.
The bondholders and stockholders are the ones who "invested" in the company. They are the ones that provided the capital for the company to operate, and for the jobs that were created. Without the bondholders and stockholders, there would be no company, so no jobs.
Ling-Temco-Vought. It was the 3rd largest steel mill in the US along with being a conglomerate in several different industries. I believe ISG took over most of their steel making assets. I know the NW Indiana mill my FIL was let go from (well he ended up taking retirement) is still operating under ISG.
I think at it's peak, LTV employed around 30k. Interestingly they reorganized under bankruptcy protection in '94, but ended up liquidating in 2001 after filing bankruptcy again in 2000 (I was a year off). LTV was not nearly the size of GM, but their bankruptcy directly effected 7,500 steel workers and 50,000 retirees with reduced pension benefits from PBGC and lost heathcare benefits
Yes, the exact same thing happened with Bethlehem Steel and it's retirees. Bethlehem was sold to ISG in 2003, which then merged with Mittal in 2005. Somewhere in that process, the retirement obligations were taken over by the PBGC, benefits were reduced and retirees lost their health care (well, went on Medicare, I believe).
Health care went to Medicare only if those effected were 65 years old. Those under had to either find other employment or pay for COBRA or some other type of coverage as it was no longer provided.
MY FIL was only like 54 when LTV went belly up so he never received any health care from LTV in retirement and his pension comes from the PBGC. Fortunately for him, my MIL has a very good job and he also qualifies for Veteran's benefits.
My grandpa was well into retirement when LTV closed, but he had Medicare to fall back on as he was in his 70's, and he was wise enough to have saved money during his working years as his pension was cut.
Those jobs in CA are handled by volunteers. Mostly retired policemen that don't like sitting at home watching soaps. They miss their donut breaks. I have talked to some of them that volunteer for the Sheriff's department in our little town. They were trying to get me to do one day a week riding patrol of all the area.
Corrections would be a good job. I don't know that they have the cushy retirements for new hires anymore. I think defined pensions are a thing of the past. Never to return.
And you think the masses will go along with doubling the price of oil? There is NO magic energy alternative on the horizon. Natural gas may help for a short time. You need to stop watching Lou Dobbs. He is obviously a nut case. He cannot even draw a small viewing audience. There will be NO TARIFFS as you would like. Maybe small ones where the government like Canada is subsidizing the logging industry. You would be just like all the other politicians. You get into office and it is just like in the UAW. Some older guy comes and tells you that you go along with the group or you are history. Our Congress is run just like the Unions. You don't rock the boat and everyone is happy.
You seem to have a free spirit. Yet you buy into the one size fits all pushed by the UAW. Kind of a quandry of thought I suspect. One side says give me freedom and the other wants to be told every move. You cannot have it both ways.
Oh, he will meet up with me and find out!!! He will be running to the devil for relief from the things I have in store for him!
It was no different in 1961. I applied with Pacific Telephone the Monday after I graduated HS in June. I drove 21 miles every Monday to the employment office to see if they had any openings. I was finally given a job in the mailroom for $62.50 per week on December 11th 1961. I mowed lawns and worked for my uncle that paid minimum wage ($1.25 per hour) when he had work for me. My parents left home in 1962 and me the mortgage. They told me to try and sell the place which I did after about a year. The mortgage took almost half my salary. I was also paying health care at Pac Tel and managed to save money along the way. In 1961 the UAW workers were the fat cats in the USA. Well times change and the ones that were smart with those big wages saved a lot and will be fine. Those that didn't, who's fault is it?