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Unfortunately, though, the economy is going to collapse under the health care weight at some point, probably soon.
I do feel for the hard working UAW members and hope when this is all over in a few years that the good ones find it a blessing in disguise. The lazy ones will probably end up being supported by the taxpayers.
You mean to tell me the greatest President of all times, did not take care of those working folks in need. Shame on him. There is a lot of the stimulus aimed at a healthcare plan. I don't think it will be the freebie Rocky envisions. The middle class worker will just be paying more to cover all those that are on welfare.
I also noticed it never mentions currency manipulation. :P
I was cruising and reading, dismissing everything posted by rocky and glued to everything posted by gagrice until I saw...
The Law Firm of Marsha and Rocky...and I almost lost my dinner...
Rocky could write up all those union contracts and get paid for it...then I would file bankruptcy for the firms and void all those union contracts and get paid for that!!!...what a country!!!
rocky, your thinking, as always, is somewhere off in outer space, but I still respect anyone who speaks their mind in the middle of an obvious problem...and yes, in a family business, you will always have the short end of the stick...but an intelligent, open minded business owner should welcome (constructive) criticism IMO...since this oen could not face the fact that his family was the problem, you are just as well being out of there...that does not mean to rule out family businesses, because some of them appreciate the opinions of outsiders, as long as they are intelligent opinions...if all you tried to do was unionize the family against the owner-father, that would not be the best thing to do...
No, I do NOT need a partner...Law Firm of Marsha & Rocky, my a**...
Welcome to the Forum. All input is good. I think you have hit on one aspect left out of this discussion for the most part. Just how UNITED are the UAW workers? How many would be willing to sacrifice to save the auto industry jobs. Not enough I would guess.
1. You are wrong: UAW assembly workers are not such masters of universe cream of the crop and manufacturing jobs do not require such great skills. OR
2. You are wrong: people in those "inferior" regions are not as inferior as you want to believe.
Actually there is a third possible conclusion. It is 1 AND 2 simoulteusly. :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And, while I would admit that Michigan grade schools are probably better then Georgia, one does not need an education to perform UAW tasks, as the work is called by anybody as unskilled labor...it was Iaccoca who stated that most of his employees at Chrysler could not read a simple warning sign...
He also likes to think that everyone is the South has no teeth, yet, like you say, this is where the industry is moving, including Saturn being based in Spring Hill, Tennessee...if he likes Saturns, it is the same Southerners that make Honda and Toyota...so, either everyone here is stupid, or maybe the silled work simply isn't skilled at all...OR...rocky's own skill level is so low that he thinks that tightening five lug nuts or sweeping the floor takes great skill, in which case we really have a problem bigger then we thought...for years the UAW stated they made the best cars while more and more people left them year by year...
We could see the obvious truth, but anyone in the UAW is genetically incapable of seeing what any pre-school child could see...all they know is that they have been told they make the best and they think that, like the students who graduate high school illiterate but have the best self-esteem...so, they respect themselves, but when they find out they cannot read, no one else respects them, but sees them for the idiots they are...
The author seems to agree that the company was washed up even when that piece was written. If you can't make money with profit loaded SUVs, you can't make it with mediocre cars.
Management owns every bit of the downfall as much as the UAW.
Thank you for the link to the CORPORATE GOVERNANCE CASE STUDY
That was very interesting reading.....
I wonder what Roger Smith's punishment in Hell will be for destroying GM? Trying to repair a GM Diesel, maybe?
Management owns every bit of the downfall as much as the UAW.
No doubt. GM's culture has been self-destructive from top to bottom for decades.
That is my take. If you've read any of my earlier posts I still think the majority of the blame is on domestic economic issues of unfree-trade with other nations and currency manipulation. Lets also not forget that BIG OIL played it's role in killing our economy. They have oil tankers floating around in the alantic artifically manipulating oil suplly and demand to make the fat cats richer. Maybe the car cartel should pool togeather to limit the number of new cars they sell to drive up prices? :P I had to be a smart [non-permissible content removed] with that one.
-Rocky
I as you know have been a big supporter for "national healthcare" for a very long time. Remember brightness04, marsha7, and a few others have labeled me a socialist which I don't take as a insult dieselone. I think I'm to conservative on too many issues to be one but on national healthcare I've been for it a long time now.
-Rocky
Come-on you can watch Keith Olbermann, like our good buddy imidazol97 and you might learn some facts behind Rush's ranting.
The wise UAW worker is getting educated for another line of work. The ones that have not saved a lot for retirement will be hurting big time over the next 10 years. Michigan will become a welfare state. The government will buy up those empty houses and start warehousing their votes for the up coming elections. Maybe you should become a community organizer. It is the prerequisite for becoming President. A law degree from an Ivy league college helps. I still don't understand why you don't want to be a cop. It is similar to being in the UAW. You get to bust heads and beat perps.
I don't want to be a cop Gary. I would rather do Corrections. I don't want to mess with all the paperwork. I have friends that are and were in law enforcement that tell me to avoid being a police officer. I couldn't handle seeing women and children beaten in homes causing me to lose my job from excessive force. I'm being dead serious I don't think I would be a good one despite what my personality profile says.
-Rocky
-Rocky
I would ship back all the illegal aliens and land mine the border and would have ground sensors for the tunnel diggers. I might even go one step further and store Nuclear Material in the ground all along the border thus resolving Yucca Mountains problem.
Want me to solve any more domestic issues gagrice???
-Rocky
P.S. Man maybe I do need to run for public office!!!
-Rocky
Well we've had a couple of actors and a professional wrestler as state governators - so you should do fine! I can see the commercials now.....
There were times that is literally all I did while working at Pantex, especially during holidays. Just because a person doesn't have a hard job or one that day doesn't make his position important. In my case I would be watching a "zone" or "sector" and if anyone came into my area I would look to see if they were a threat or not and go from there. I had thousands of rounds of ammunition at my disposal at some of my posts along with weaponry that I could reach out an touch somebody to destroy light armored vehicles from lets just say many meters away.
I was cruising and reading, dismissing everything posted by rocky and glued to everything posted by gagrice until I saw...
You listen to people like Rush, but won't listen to me??? How could you!!! :P
The Law Firm of Marsha and Rocky...and I almost lost my dinner...
LOL, tlong did make my day with that one.
Rocky could write up all those union contracts and get paid for it...then I would file bankruptcy for the firms and void all those union contracts and get paid for that!!!...what a country!!!
LOL....Rocky, would write a contract unlike any other that's for sure. If I could rewrite the UAW contract I would go for as much wage as I could for the UAW workers and try to get the union to set up some sort of health insurance plan through the union.
rocky, your thinking, as always, is somewhere off in outer space, but I still respect anyone who speaks their mind in the middle of an obvious problem...and yes, in a family business, you will always have the short end of the stick...but an intelligent, open minded business owner should welcome (constructive) criticism IMO...since this oen could not face the fact that his family was the problem, you are just as well being out of there...that does not mean to rule out family businesses, because some of them appreciate the opinions of outsiders, as long as they are intelligent opinions...if all you tried to do was unionize the family against the owner-father, that would not be the best thing to do...
The sad thing is Marsha7, is the day before I and the owner were high-fiving as I told him how well he did in his interview with the local news. He asked my opinion and I told him he looked great and did a great job. I guess that is why I was so stunned he didn't get involve and hear my side of the story. All I got was a exit interview with the F&I manager. It was the most odd thing I've ever seen in my working career and I might be paying for it now finding that next job. :sick:
No, I do NOT need a partner...Law Firm of Marsha & Rocky, my a**...
I think I'm going to go enroll in law school. I think Columbia, sounds about right. I will send you the bill since you are so damn interested in sponsoring me!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
1. You are wrong: UAW assembly workers are not such masters of universe cream of the crop and manufacturing jobs do not require such great skills. OR
2. You are wrong: people in those "inferior" regions are not as inferior as you want to believe.
Actually there is a third possible conclusion. It is 1 AND 2 simoulteusly.
If you show a parrot how to do something over and over and over again for hours, days, and weeks well they like AJ did will eventually catch on.
Meet AJ :shades:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Fxclwdfxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33N-ClB2Cak
The Chinese could not make Multec 2 fuel injectors despite millions wasted by Delphi and is why they still build em' here in the U.S. They can build Multec 3 because it doesn't require as much skill and are simpiler. Get my point???
My other point is you will never get the quality control from forced/slave labor. My criticism mainly comes from people being abused and taken advantage of like slaves. The goverment is baught and paid for and allows these human rights violations to take place. It's either learn how to do it or the next starving guy will. That is the direction of the new world order. You will be able to afford your cable TV so you can be manipulated that all is well and they have your best interests at heart.
-Rocky
No they did not!!!! They however taught me that not all of there cars are bad like your family obviously did you.
And, while I would admit that Michigan grade schools are probably better then Georgia, one does not need an education to perform UAW tasks, as the work is called by anybody as unskilled labor...it was Iaccoca who stated that most of his employees at Chrysler could not read a simple warning sign...
I love how many people put Iaccoa on such a high pedestal yet the only great car they ever made was a Dodge Stealth and that was a Mitsubishi. The Caravan was junk despite it's popularity. Please name me one good reliable car Chrysler, has ever made??? The only good vehicles they ever made were Jeeps. The 300 is now outdated and while it has been a decent car it's only one. The Ram has been an okay truck and would say it's finally among the best once again. I would own one. I know this will get a lot of people pissed at me but I don't care and will say it anyways.....Richard G. Wagoner, was twice the CEO as Iaccoa. Wagoner, took over during the most difficult time in GM history. We had 9/11 and Bush economics. We were really turning the corner in 2007 and Wall Street screwed Main Street thus causing all this turmoil we see today. GM, got further screwed by the Big Oil Monopoly and there record breaking profits. I would still like to see Obama, implement price caps on gasoline so Big Oil can't destroy our economy ever again!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
He also likes to think that everyone is the South has no teeth, yet, like you say, this is where the industry is moving, including Saturn being based in Spring Hill, Tennessee...if he likes Saturns, it is the same Southerners that make Honda and Toyota...so, either everyone here is stupid, or maybe the silled work simply isn't skilled at all...OR...rocky's own skill level is so low that he thinks that tightening five lug nuts or sweeping the floor takes great skill, in which case we really have a problem bigger then we thought...for years the UAW stated they made the best cars while more and more people left them year by year...
I wouldn't put Tennessee quite in the South. You still have enough Midwestern influence to help balance out that state!!! :P
We could see the obvious truth, but anyone in the UAW is genetically incapable of seeing what any pre-school child could see...all they know is that they have been told they make the best and they think that, like the students who graduate high school illiterate but have the best self-esteem...so, they respect themselves, but when they find out they cannot read, no one else respects them, but sees them for the idiots they are...
The UAW does make the best. The products speak for themselves and I would be more than glad to go line by line with you and show you that they are more than just competitive in most makes and models.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOXvpXg7vAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W405HKUwvaE
:P :P :P :P :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
I worked at Johnson Controls Inc. in Holland, MI. making car interior parts back in 99' but we were non-union. I've sold cars at 3 different dealerships where two of the three have closed. I don't expect the last one I worked at to be open when GM downsizes it's dealer network. I don't know if I'll ever sell another car in my life. It's not a good career choice in this economy and only the old timers with a clientel or good looking women that work very hard like my best friend will survive IMHO. The good news is JCI is going to make batteries here in Michigan and are suppose to hire more than 500 people but that won't be until next year. We have a casino being built which will employ 1500-2000 people and that will be done also be next year. Delphi Coopersville, will become a dairy by next year also and will employ quite a few people. So this year is looking bad but perhaps next year things will get better job wise around here. It is indeed very stressful job hunting and I hope none of you have to go through it.
-Rocky
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090417/us_nm/us_walmart_union
-Rocky
He didn't invest anything! He/she came to work, did a job (maybe), got paid, and went back home again. And that's the extent of it.
The bondholders and stockholders are the ones who "invested" in the company. They are the ones that provided the capital for the company to operate, and for the jobs that were created. Without the bondholders and stockholders, there would be no company, so no jobs.
Ling-Temco-Vought. It was the 3rd largest steel mill in the US along with being a conglomerate in several different industries. I believe ISG took over most of their steel making assets. I know the NW Indiana mill my FIL was let go from (well he ended up taking retirement) is still operating under ISG.
I think at it's peak, LTV employed around 30k. Interestingly they reorganized under bankruptcy protection in '94, but ended up liquidating in 2001 after filing bankruptcy again in 2000 (I was a year off). LTV was not nearly the size of GM, but their bankruptcy directly effected 7,500 steel workers and 50,000 retirees with reduced pension benefits from PBGC and lost heathcare benefits
Yes, the exact same thing happened with Bethlehem Steel and it's retirees. Bethlehem was sold to ISG in 2003, which then merged with Mittal in 2005. Somewhere in that process, the retirement obligations were taken over by the PBGC, benefits were reduced and retirees lost their health care (well, went on Medicare, I believe).
Health care went to Medicare only if those effected were 65 years old. Those under had to either find other employment or pay for COBRA or some other type of coverage as it was no longer provided.
MY FIL was only like 54 when LTV went belly up so he never received any health care from LTV in retirement and his pension comes from the PBGC. Fortunately for him, my MIL has a very good job and he also qualifies for Veteran's benefits.
My grandpa was well into retirement when LTV closed, but he had Medicare to fall back on as he was in his 70's, and he was wise enough to have saved money during his working years as his pension was cut.
Those jobs in CA are handled by volunteers. Mostly retired policemen that don't like sitting at home watching soaps. They miss their donut breaks. I have talked to some of them that volunteer for the Sheriff's department in our little town. They were trying to get me to do one day a week riding patrol of all the area.
Corrections would be a good job. I don't know that they have the cushy retirements for new hires anymore. I think defined pensions are a thing of the past. Never to return.
And you think the masses will go along with doubling the price of oil? There is NO magic energy alternative on the horizon. Natural gas may help for a short time. You need to stop watching Lou Dobbs. He is obviously a nut case. He cannot even draw a small viewing audience. There will be NO TARIFFS as you would like. Maybe small ones where the government like Canada is subsidizing the logging industry. You would be just like all the other politicians. You get into office and it is just like in the UAW. Some older guy comes and tells you that you go along with the group or you are history. Our Congress is run just like the Unions. You don't rock the boat and everyone is happy.
You seem to have a free spirit. Yet you buy into the one size fits all pushed by the UAW. Kind of a quandry of thought I suspect. One side says give me freedom and the other wants to be told every move. You cannot have it both ways.
Oh, he will meet up with me and find out!!! He will be running to the devil for relief from the things I have in store for him!
It was no different in 1961. I applied with Pacific Telephone the Monday after I graduated HS in June. I drove 21 miles every Monday to the employment office to see if they had any openings. I was finally given a job in the mailroom for $62.50 per week on December 11th 1961. I mowed lawns and worked for my uncle that paid minimum wage ($1.25 per hour) when he had work for me. My parents left home in 1962 and me the mortgage. They told me to try and sell the place which I did after about a year. The mortgage took almost half my salary. I was also paying health care at Pac Tel and managed to save money along the way. In 1961 the UAW workers were the fat cats in the USA. Well times change and the ones that were smart with those big wages saved a lot and will be fine. Those that didn't, who's fault is it?