>Funny. I was just talking to a coworker who's saying he's having problems with the suspension on his new '09 Camry!
and how many times do I have to tell you folks that Toyota is destined to be another GM? It is doing the same things GM does, in order to beat GM, just did it better. But guess what? In doing so, it is losing sight that Quality is #1.
I love Honda for that. All they want to do is make a good product. Sales will happen naturally as a result of great quality, and they have no ambition to be # in Sales.
It may be time to become an independent business owner. Lawnmower and trimmer and flat trailer and you're a lawn service. Rent a core aerator to do that service. Rent a seeder to reseed lawns. Learn the fertilizers and get a discount source and you handle the fertilizer. If you operate as a business give yourself a name making it clear you're a citizen and patriotic: Patriot Lawn Service.
Winter time and a solid GM or Ford pickup with a snowplow and you're a snow removal service. I know there's snow in Michigan.
Get licensed as a gun trainer for concealed carry permits. Get tied in with someone already doing classes. With the current situations, they will become more popular.
Go to community college to work toward a certificate or a degree. Maybe you want to become a lawyer.
I respectfully disagree. It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so.
Aren't you forgetting a couple technicalities. You go on strike and that effectively ends the contract. The Contract you sign says you will work for the company, not stand out front with a picket sign. You also forgot that being able to do the job is an element that the UAW would like to gloss over. If a guy gets to 50 and cannot keep up with a 35 year old guy, why should the company pay him as much money? This is where training for a job that does not require a strong back and a weak mind, comes into play.
It is "his" job because he/she invested there time with the company and their was a bargaining contract that says so
Your sense of humor is really overwelhming. Invested???? Time with the company??? What could he do instead? No education, skills on level of hald hour of safety training and hour of "you turn this on here", when it comes you put bolt here, and fasten there. The only time I see "invested" is perhaps union rallys where they tell him how bloodsucking and unfair the owners and management are for not giving a well-deserved raise. Invested :sick:
How about the owners, who invested their own real money? If as you say repeatedly "there are things worth fighting for", which in your opinion means excuse for violence and vandalism, if I were an owner, I would hire squadrons to shoot at any union thug, who comes anywhere close to my property unauthorized or worse threatens harm to people I specifically asked to come and work for me. It's not even my right, it's my duty to guarantee safety to people who legally come and legally enter any legal contract. My property, my castle. Just defending my rights. "Thing worth fighting for", remember?
I think you are forgetting that the 50 year old will have enough seniority to be on a job that isn't as physically demanding. Also you fail to realize that not all of those jobs require a wek mind like you think gagrice. :confuse:
Actually the True Cost to Own on the Malibu is as good as anything in its class. I only used the Civic because that's what I remembered seeing mentioned in an earlier post.
Good luck finding trigger men willing to fight for a cause that revolves around being a scum bag. Your knowledge of the automobile industry job skills like many on here is a complete joke.
Now isn't a good time to get in the lawn and snow removal business imidazol97. There is a million other people that are doing it and last winter people shoveled there own drive-ways more so than ever. Seriously people around here are cutting back big time pal. I'm watching people changing there own oil and rotating there own tires to save money.
I would still consider doing an apprenticeship program but good luck finding anyone to sponsor you to get the OJT hours needed to become a journeymen. :sick:
Well so do I. I say that you both are blowing smoke trying to stereotype all manufacturing jobs as think less, non-skilled positions which is simply not true. Can you tear a machine apart and put it back togeather again by reading blueprints and diagrams??? A lot of lawyers don't know how to check there own oil but they can lie there [non-permissible content removed] off in court. I guess that makes them skilled, right??? :confuse:
Again - I didn't say they did. But they COST ultimately that much. If Smith leaved the company ti retire and collects benefits (healthcare, pension), the money is paid to Smith or for Smith. Since Smith is not putting a single hour of work anymore, those payments now go against his pay in the past. So let's Sam Smith's pay is now balooning into higher and higher rate per hour that he actually worked. Does it matter? Of course it does.
According to the article retiree healthcare and pension benefits are $30/hr surcharge on top of $40/hr pay. That is enormous. Yes, it is fixed cost. But when your business shrinks, you don't stay in the same office space, they can't sustain that cost. Does it matter? Of course it does. Big time. While this guy is right that cutting going pay will not make as much difference, he "forgot" to mention that cutting or reducing hefty $30/hr (or more with shrinking market share) "retiree surcharge" definitely would.
And just fact of existence of this surcharge is a shared fault of the management and UAW. They probably knew in 80s or so that it will blow up sooner or later. All they could think of was the it will happen to the next guys, not us so we can keep it going unchanged.
I didn't respond to your first message about costs. The real costs should include rebates, incentives, and the additional markup and required mop and glo, etc., that are pedalled heavily by some dealers. In my opinion in the midwest it's easy to get a great discount on a GM product like a Malibu even now. The other cars mentioned tend to be harder to negotiate for and to get out of the dealer without the required extra costs and $250 (Ohio) doc fees and the $600 fee for unwrapping the car, etc.
Then there's the cost of the required return trips to the dealer for certain mileage interval services that the salesmen/service centers scare the customer in coming back for. It's my opinion, (see above disclaimer), that these happen a whole lot more with the two other brands mentioned than with GMs. GMs tend to be serviced more at independent mechanics based on friends and family information. That's cheaper. On the other hand some don't service cars except at the 10,000 mile interval for Honda (I'd never let a car go that long on an oil change). The longer intervals tend to make maintenance costs appear lower than for most people.
I don't want to burst your bubble, but I think there might be plenty of volunteers from many states. Just put an ad for a payback time for last GM lemon and long lines of people ready to sign up will start forming. :P
Well I'm sick of it!!! Something needs to be done to address it!!! :mad: I called tech support trying to figure out how to reboot my computer and I spoke to someone from India. :mad: :sick: Something that should of been resolved in 5 minutes ended taking a 25 minutes because I couldn't understand half of what he was saying. :mad:
The unions never gave control of our lives away it was corporate america. They flushed their business ethics down the toilet in the name of the all mighty dollar. :sick:
Well so do I. I say that you both are blowing smoke trying to stereotype all manufacturing jobs as think less, non-skilled positions which is simply not true.
And the guy who fastens bumpers and pulls $30-35/hr can do that? Don't make me laugh. The point of automation was that they don't have to. Out of 5 guys who know how to press green and red button there may be one who knows where the trip switch is (in case machine stopped), then one out of 5 of those knows how to the covers, then out of 5 of those there will be one who would actually know how to read diagrams and actually make machine work again when it stops.
Basically one out of hundred or so knows anything more than "press here, hold there and when the arrow reaches red - run". Blueprints and diagrams. This really is funny.
I remember watching one video where he drove towards the basket, looked right, passed the ball to his right (w/his left hand) causing everybody to freeze, slapped the ball w/his right hand over to Heinsohn ( who was 15 feet to his LEFT), who hit a wide open 15' footer.
They would be attacking the wrong group wouldn't they??? Last time I checked the UAW workers weren't the ones who signed off to cut corners on engineering.
And the guy who fastens bumpers and pulls $30-35/hr can do that? Don't make me laugh. The point of automation was that they don't have to. Out of 5 guys who know how to press green and red button there may be one who knows where the trip switch is (in case machine stopped), then one out of 5 of those knows how to the covers, then out of 5 of those there will be one who would actually know how to read diagrams and actually make machine work again when it stops.
Basically one out of hundred or so knows anything more than "press here, hold there and when the arrow reaches red - run". Blueprints and diagrams. This really is funny.
Again the above comments shows just how little you REALLY know. :confuse:
Rebates and incentives? Yes, they should be included in any true cost to own statistic. I got $4K off on my new 06 Toyota Tundra when I bought it so it's not just the D3 that offer big discounts.
Add'l markup? Required mop & glo? You've GOT to be kidding me. I've NEVER seen REQUIRED mop & glo. Add'l markup? Are you that much of a poor negotiator? I am almost falling out of my chair laughing.
Ohio $250 doc fee? $600 fee? Here in Florida it's $699 and EVERY new car dealer charges it.
Required return trips for service? Again, are you that gullible? It appears that you are. You have thrown out so many theoretical arguments it's so laughable.
GMs tend to be serviced more at independent mechanics based on friends and family information? ROTFLMAO. Where did you dream that one up? You've GOT to be kidding. There's nothing unique about a GM over a Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, or whatever in this issue.
I thought the PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENT won this last election. It was totally supported by the UAW and every other Union. Having second thoughts on who is on your side? You are not listening.
I as you might remember supported Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards. I still believe Barry is a better alternative than McCain. Not by much but marginally better. :sick:
The Union worker cannot compete in this day and age. There are millions of illegals that will soon be vying for the same jobs you are. It is supply and demand. I can tell you I would hire someone that is hungry for a job before I would hire someone that thinks the World owes him a living. Look at the UAW workers and you will see and hear what I mean. UAW workers are nothing special. They are just unskilled labor. They can be replaced. They are being replaced and nothing can be done but accept the inevitable and get on with your life. Run for office if you think you can make any changes in our system. I don't believe it is possible. Good candidates get run over by the bad ones. And they use the ignorant masses to do their bidding.
I agree we are done. Good people will suffer. UAW workers are good people for the most part and they like many other americans will be peasants in the New World Order of the serf n' elite society.
Gagrice, I can see how you came up with that figure. The problem is we had a CEO like Roger Smith, that said something to the fact that americans will buy whatever we produce. I don't remember the exact quote. If you click on the link a few posts back of mine you will get a good eye opener as to what went on.
So you obviously like supporting contractors who use illegal aliens so they can have there 3 dozen kids and suck the government dry? :sick: Great!!! :sick:
Legal Partners Found Injured in Double Murder Attempt
"A lawyer was found bruised and beaten in a downtown Atlanta law office. Rockylee, still grimly holding a baseball bat, was found muttering about unions and currency manipulation, while fading in and out of consciousness. Across the room, Bob, the other partner at the Law Offices of Marsha and Rockylee, was found pinned under a bookcase with thousands of law books spread across his body. Bob was screaming "I have NO sympathy" and "Go to College!" and was not responsive to police questioning.
The firm's secretary indicated that the two lawyers had been getting along fine until the ban on accessing InsideLine.com was lifted. It was at that point that Rockylee and Bob began arguing. She tried to stop them but it was too late.
Atlanta police indicate no charges will be filed."
12 million. It's more like 30-40 million illegal aliens. Many of them are young becaused each illegal has roughly 3 dozen kids to get the welfare and free healthcare. :sick: This country will be in the toilet by the end of the next decade. Maybe lemko is right and December 21, 2012 is looking better.
The ones I know have no self respect or respect for others. They have a "all about me" attitude. I believe in Karma, and they will get what they deserve someday!!! :mad:
That is freaken hilarious and probably wouldn't be far off from reality!!!
I was hoping to brighten your day!
On topic, what do you think the UAW's strategy is, given the GM situation? Are they holding out and playing chicken? What is the best strategy for them to hold onto as much of their benefits as possible without losing their jobs entirely?
I assume that all scenarios are going to lose many jobs.
>Where did you dream that one up? You've GOT to be kidding. There's nothing unique about a GM over a Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, or whatever in this issue.
Can the insults.
You are welcome to your opinion. I don't ridicule what happens at dealers in your corner of your world.
That was the little bit of humor I was getting to.
On the other hand there are skills that are community college skills that some people have a knack for and do extremely well. I heard of man who retired as a teacher and went to the local vocational high school night school and community college for aircraft mechanics.
McCain, would of sent the UAW and there retirees out on the street. The only good thing he would of done would be the creation of nuclear power plants which might of gave me a decent job. However it would take years to build one.
tlong, I don't think their is any good solution. the pension plan appears to be pretty secure but the healthcare is what will hurt retirees. I think the only solution is that Obama, rolls out his national healthcare plan ASAP. However if he's going to legalize the baby makers in this country it's going to be super expensive. Good for keeping jobs here because of the lower costs on coporate america but bad because some people feel entitled to have as many kids as they want in the name of religion. :mad:
I am writing to say that i trueley beleave that the union (uaw) is just as much to blame as anyone else. They always want a bit more than what they really need, it's the workers that are the driving force for the decisions with in the (uaw). and its become a joke, my father was an auto worker for more than 20 years before he died in 1992, and although a union member he as well as many of his fellow workers agreed even back then that the union was becoming a joke, and that it was just a matter of time before it would cripple it's self, and look it has. so on that note lets unionize another company so they can be out of work with in a few years, or be holding on by a thread hopeing thier jobs wont be next. this is just a thought, i may be over steping it, but if more people did that we wouldnt be in this situation.
tlong, I don't think their is any good solution. the pension plan appears to be pretty secure but the healthcare is what will hurt retirees. I think the only solution is that Obama, rolls out his national healthcare plan ASAP.
Why? Just because of GM's retirees? Most companies do not offer healthcare in retirment. My FIL and my grandpa lost their healthcare coverage back when LTV went belly up in '99, neither starved nor endured hardship during retirement, they adjusted. While I don't want to debate the issue of a national healthcare plan, but I would be strongly against it if it were to be rushed to implementation just because of UAW workers.
Good for keeping jobs here because of the lower costs on coporate america but bad because some people feel entitled to have as many kids as they want in the name of religion.
Most of the immigrants legal and illegal are either Catholic or Muslim. Neither believe in birth control or abortion. You cannot say you were not informed. BO promised amnesty and more tolerance to all groups if elected. When you are working for $12 per hour what other kind of fun can you afford?
The wise UAW worker is getting educated for another line of work. The ones that have not saved a lot for retirement will be hurting big time over the next 10 years. Michigan will become a welfare state. The government will buy up those empty houses and start warehousing their votes for the up coming elections. Maybe you should become a community organizer. It is the prerequisite for becoming President. A law degree from an Ivy league college helps. I still don't understand why you don't want to be a cop. It is similar to being in the UAW. You get to bust heads and beat perps.
Comments
If I walk of my job, it is no longer my job. Anyone can fill it.
and how many times do I have to tell you folks that Toyota is destined to be another GM? It is doing the same things GM does, in order to beat GM, just did it better. But guess what? In doing so, it is losing sight that Quality is #1.
I love Honda for that. All they want to do is make a good product. Sales will happen naturally as a result of great quality, and they have no ambition to be # in Sales.
Winter time and a solid GM or Ford pickup with a snowplow and you're a snow removal service. I know there's snow in Michigan.
Get licensed as a gun trainer for concealed carry permits. Get tied in with someone already doing classes. With the current situations, they will become more popular.
Go to community college to work toward a certificate or a degree. Maybe you want to become a lawyer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Aren't you forgetting a couple technicalities. You go on strike and that effectively ends the contract. The Contract you sign says you will work for the company, not stand out front with a picket sign. You also forgot that being able to do the job is an element that the UAW would like to gloss over. If a guy gets to 50 and cannot keep up with a 35 year old guy, why should the company pay him as much money? This is where training for a job that does not require a strong back and a weak mind, comes into play.
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/12/10/do-uaw-workers-make-73-an-hour-does-it-- matter/
-Rocky
Your sense of humor is really overwelhming. Invested???? Time with the company??? What could he do instead? No education, skills on level of hald hour of safety training and hour of "you turn this on here", when it comes you put bolt here, and fasten there. The only time I see "invested" is perhaps union rallys where they tell him how bloodsucking and unfair the owners and management are for not giving a well-deserved raise. Invested :sick:
How about the owners, who invested their own real money? If as you say repeatedly "there are things worth fighting for", which in your opinion means excuse for violence and vandalism, if I were an owner, I would hire squadrons to shoot at any union thug, who comes anywhere close to my property unauthorized or worse threatens harm to people I specifically asked to come and work for me. It's not even my right, it's my duty to guarantee safety to people who legally come and legally enter any legal contract. My property, my castle. Just defending my rights. "Thing worth fighting for", remember?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-Rocky
Car Model / Per Mile/ Total Dollars
2009 Chevrolet Malibu $0.48 $36,182
2009 Toyota Camry $0.50 $37,471
2009 Mazda MAZDA6 $0.58 $43,361
2009 Nissan Altima $0.49 $36,577
2009 Honda Accord $0.48 $35,939
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/chevrolet/malibu/101028431/cto.html?step=2&setzi- - p=
The Malibu is a good car.....
-Rocky
I am sure you know that I have a background in Manufacturing.
I say Dino is right. You just are blinded by UAW smoke.
I would still consider doing an apprenticeship program but good luck finding anyone to sponsor you to get the OJT hours needed to become a journeymen. :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
According to the article retiree healthcare and pension benefits are $30/hr surcharge on top of $40/hr pay. That is enormous. Yes, it is fixed cost. But when your business shrinks, you don't stay in the same office space, they can't sustain that cost. Does it matter? Of course it does. Big time. While this guy is right that cutting going pay will not make as much difference, he "forgot" to mention that cutting or reducing hefty $30/hr (or more with shrinking market share) "retiree surcharge" definitely would.
And just fact of existence of this surcharge is a shared fault of the management and UAW. They probably knew in 80s or so that it will blow up sooner or later. All they could think of was the it will happen to the next guys, not us so we can keep it going unchanged.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-Rocky
Then there's the cost of the required return trips to the dealer for certain mileage interval services that the salesmen/service centers scare the customer in coming back for. It's my opinion, (see above disclaimer), that these happen a whole lot more with the two other brands mentioned than with GMs. GMs tend to be serviced more at independent mechanics based on friends and family information. That's cheaper. On the other hand some don't service cars except at the 10,000 mile interval for Honda (I'd never let a car go that long on an oil change). The longer intervals tend to make maintenance costs appear lower than for most people.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The unions never gave control of our lives away it was corporate america. They flushed their business ethics down the toilet in the name of the all mighty dollar. :sick:
-Rocky
And the guy who fastens bumpers and pulls $30-35/hr can do that? Don't make me laugh. The point of automation was that they don't have to. Out of 5 guys who know how to press green and red button there may be one who knows where the trip switch is (in case machine stopped), then one out of 5 of those knows how to the covers, then out of 5 of those there will be one who would actually know how to read diagrams and actually make machine work again when it stops.
Basically one out of hundred or so knows anything more than "press here, hold there and when the arrow reaches red - run". Blueprints and diagrams. This really is funny.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The one you all forget is the great Bob Cousy. He made all his defenders look like fools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkrIrZcR42o
I remember watching one video where he drove towards the basket, looked right, passed the ball to his right (w/his left hand) causing everybody to freeze, slapped the ball w/his right hand over to Heinsohn ( who was 15 feet to his LEFT), who hit a wide open 15' footer.
Kemp......puhleeeze.....
CORPORATE GOVERNANCE CASE STUDY
General Motors
http://www.ragm.com/books/corp_gov/cases/cs_gm.html
-Rocky
Basically one out of hundred or so knows anything more than "press here, hold there and when the arrow reaches red - run". Blueprints and diagrams. This really is funny.
Again the above comments shows just how little you REALLY know. :confuse:
-Rocky
No less than the one's who DO sign the card will be harassed and bullied by management.
Last time I checked, Thomas Jefferson didn't fire off a letter to the King of England declaring our independence via a unanimous secret ballot vote.
Add'l markup? Required mop & glo? You've GOT to be kidding me. I've NEVER seen REQUIRED mop & glo. Add'l markup? Are you that much of a poor negotiator? I am almost falling out of my chair laughing.
Ohio $250 doc fee? $600 fee? Here in Florida it's $699 and EVERY new car dealer charges it.
Required return trips for service? Again, are you that gullible? It appears that you are. You have thrown out so many theoretical arguments it's so laughable.
GMs tend to be serviced more at independent mechanics based on friends and family information? ROTFLMAO. Where did you dream that one up? You've GOT to be kidding. There's nothing unique about a GM over a Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, or whatever in this issue.
I as you might remember supported Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards. I still believe Barry is a better alternative than McCain. Not by much but marginally better. :sick:
The Union worker cannot compete in this day and age. There are millions of illegals that will soon be vying for the same jobs you are. It is supply and demand. I can tell you I would hire someone that is hungry for a job before I would hire someone that thinks the World owes him a living. Look at the UAW workers and you will see and hear what I mean. UAW workers are nothing special. They are just unskilled labor. They can be replaced. They are being replaced and nothing can be done but accept the inevitable and get on with your life. Run for office if you think you can make any changes in our system. I don't believe it is possible. Good candidates get run over by the bad ones. And they use the ignorant masses to do their bidding.
I agree we are done. Good people will suffer. UAW workers are good people for the most part and they like many other americans will be peasants in the New World Order of the serf n' elite society.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
The Law Offices of Marsha and Rockylee!! :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
I'm not suprised but watch out your probably going to be attacked for saying anything negative about the crown jewel of the import fan boys!!!
-Rocky
Legal Partners Found Injured in Double Murder Attempt
"A lawyer was found bruised and beaten in a downtown Atlanta law office. Rockylee, still grimly holding a baseball bat, was found muttering about unions and currency manipulation, while fading in and out of consciousness. Across the room, Bob, the other partner at the Law Offices of Marsha and Rockylee, was found pinned under a bookcase with thousands of law books spread across his body. Bob was screaming "I have NO sympathy" and "Go to College!" and was not responsive to police questioning.
The firm's secretary indicated that the two lawyers had been getting along fine until the ban on accessing InsideLine.com was lifted. It was at that point that Rockylee and Bob began arguing. She tried to stop them but it was too late.
Atlanta police indicate no charges will be filed."
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I was hoping to brighten your day!
On topic, what do you think the UAW's strategy is, given the GM situation? Are they holding out and playing chicken? What is the best strategy for them to hold onto as much of their benefits as possible without losing their jobs entirely?
I assume that all scenarios are going to lose many jobs.
Can the insults.
You are welcome to your opinion. I don't ridicule what happens at dealers in your corner of your world.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
With CEO's like Roger Smith in charge the UAW was only bullet resistant not bullet proof from his reign of terror. :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
That was the little bit of humor I was getting to.
On the other hand there are skills that are community college skills that some people have a knack for and do extremely well. I heard of man who retired as a teacher and went to the local vocational high school night school and community college for aircraft mechanics.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
I missed that link. Where is it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
CORPORATE GOVERNANCE CASE STUDY
General Motors
http://www.ragm.com/books/corp_gov/cases/cs_gm.html
-Rocky
-Rocky
Reminds me of my favorite bumper sticker " My Karma, Just ran over your Dogma"
Why? Just because of GM's retirees? Most companies do not offer healthcare in retirment. My FIL and my grandpa lost their healthcare coverage back when LTV went belly up in '99, neither starved nor endured hardship during retirement, they adjusted. While I don't want to debate the issue of a national healthcare plan, but I would be strongly against it if it were to be rushed to implementation just because of UAW workers.
Most of the immigrants legal and illegal are either Catholic or Muslim. Neither believe in birth control or abortion. You cannot say you were not informed. BO promised amnesty and more tolerance to all groups if elected. When you are working for $12 per hour what other kind of fun can you afford?
The wise UAW worker is getting educated for another line of work. The ones that have not saved a lot for retirement will be hurting big time over the next 10 years. Michigan will become a welfare state. The government will buy up those empty houses and start warehousing their votes for the up coming elections. Maybe you should become a community organizer. It is the prerequisite for becoming President. A law degree from an Ivy league college helps. I still don't understand why you don't want to be a cop. It is similar to being in the UAW. You get to bust heads and beat perps.