United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Not necessarily. When I want a large luxury sedan, I want a Cadillac. When I want a solid mid-priced sedan, I want a Buick.

    Sure Lemko. However you forgot one tiny detail: how many of people like you are out there? From what the sales show, not even nearly enough.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    that they are open to leaving Detroit...the article, Reuters, said that they BOUGHT the Renaissance Center last year for $625 million...was that a wise thing to do when you have no money???...I do realize that it may look stupid on the surface, but if their rent was, say, $100 million a year, taking advantage of a poor real estate market in Detroit, maybe paying $625 million was a steal...maybe 2 years ago, at the height of the market, the RenCen was worth over 2 billion...who knows???

    But they do say that the UAW is key to survival...so, how much does the UAW scream about a few measly concessions, when the ultimate concession is losing their job???
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, maybe they'll all work at Wal~Mart and unionize it?
    "Welcome to UAWal~Mart!" :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    I wonder what will the UAW
    be like two years after GM survives and they've accepted reduced benefits and pay scales. Will the UAW start striking just like they did in the past? How will GM and or Chrysler handle the strike.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, I just hope GM survives! If GM and Chrysler go down, will Ford be the only automaker with the UAW?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Shoot, I just hope GM survives! If GM and Chrysler go down, will Ford be the only automaker with the UAW?

    When other American car companies failed such as Packard, Hudson, Studebaker, Nash, Kaiser, etc., was the UAW a non-issue in their demise vs today's scenario? The benefits/pensions back then were a smaller amount compared to today.

    As Obama had been lecturing last year about wanting and being ready for Change, same is true of car buyers. They should be ready to Change into another brand when their favorite fails.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that has the UAW tied to their operations: Mitsubishi's Normal, IL, plant.

    Any others you know of?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agree, that's why Philly was the LAST place for a new auto plant...better odds were on Mars!

    Regards,
    OW
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    When other American car companies failed such as Packard, Hudson, Studebaker, Nash, Kaiser, etc., was the UAW a non-issue in their demise vs today's scenario?

    These companies died because they didn't make what increasingly affluent post-WWII buyers wanted: large, powerful & flashy cars. Look at Packard, for example. Before WWII, it was the #1 luxury brand in the U.S. market, but after the war it stumbled badly. Not only was its restyled 1951 lineup a sales flop, it didn't offer a V-8 until 1955 - at a time when horsepower was everything. To make things worse, Packard was also suffering from quality control problems. By that time, the company was bleeding cash & desperately needed a partner, so it bought Studebaker - only to discover that Studebaker was in worse shape than it was.

    So, no - union problems didn't kill these companies.

    [Edit: I believe that Packard was the first to offer factory A/C, in 1939 or 1940. The unit pretty much filled up the trunk & piped cool air into the passenger cabin through vents in the ceiling. It supposedly worked quite well.]
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    From 2003 to 2008, for example, aggregate private-sector employment grew by a healthy 10.4% in the 11 states in which fewer than 5% of private employees were under union
    monopoly control as of 2003. In the 18 states with private-sector monopoly bargaining below the national average, but above 5%, employment grew by 6.1%. But in the 21 states with above average private-sector unionization, aggregate employment grew by just 3.5% -- roughly a third as much as in the lowest-union-density states.


    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • bobembbobemb Member Posts: 4
    How many industries have been saved by unions versus how many have been destroyed. Just a thought.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,582
    How many industries have been saved by unions versus how many have been destroyed.

    For destroyed, I know of two, the steel and now the U.S. auto industry.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I would suppose that the number of companies destroyed by unions far exceeds the number saved by the union...why would anything that only serves to INCREASE labor costs ever do anything to save the company...and, if there IS one that the union "saved", the first question that must be asked is..."Did the union place the company in jeopardy in the first place???"...if the union brings a compnay to the brink of destruction, and then backs off so the company can survive, do not count that as one "saved by the union" because the entire problem was the union...
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Hmmm, wonder why the Save Reply Move and Delete buttons show up for me next to EVERY post?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Probably left over from one of our housekeeping episodes. And it should be fixed now. Thanks for pointing that out.
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    hopefully toyotA wil let in uaw and ruin them too so chrysler and GM can get back some market share
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    if i was running a bizness, i wouldnt want a union being a pain
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Well, I agree unions destroyed the steel and auto industries. It's just 2, but look at the scale of the damage. Add greedy execs to the mix and you get perfect disaster.

    hopefully toyotA wil let in uaw and ruin them too so chrysler and GM can get back some market share

    Why bother, chetj? Toyota is already messed up as it is. It has lost respect in homeland Japan for years, so much there are rumors that Toyota actually brought Lexus brand to Japan not for efficiency reasons, but to recover customers' confidence.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    GM plans to export China-made cars to U.S.

    Neil Roland
    Automotive News
    May 11, 2009 - 5:21 pm ET

    "WASHINGTON -- General Motors plans to sell cars in the United States that it makes in China, starting in 2011. That could make GM the first major automaker to import Chinese cars to the U.S. market.

    The car maker expects to sell about 17,335 of the China-made vehicles in the United States in 2011, and triple that number to 51,546 in 2014, a planning document circulated by GM among U.S. lawmakers shows.

    The gains would come, the document says, as GM's total U.S. sales surge 50 percent in the next five years.

    The plans are subject to change pending the outcome of negotiations with the UAW.

    Many of these vehicles are likely to be small cars similar to the upcoming Chevy Spark, which will be built in South Korea, though the models will be different from any currently built in the United States by any automaker, an industry official said in an interview.

    Even at the higher 2014 level, though, cars from China would still account for only 1.6 percent of GM's 3.1 million total expected sales in the U.S. that year, the 12-page document says.

    The automaker is trying to meet a government-imposed June 1 deadline to restructure operations and cut over $40 billion in debt, or risk bankruptcy.

    The UAW has criticized GM's restructuring plan because of increases envisioned by the plan in U.S. sales of cars made overseas.

    'We are in dialogue with the UAW, and my view of a dialogue is that it is a good idea to have an open book on all the different subjects,' GM CEO Fritz Henderson said in a media conference call today. 'We have a philosophy of building where we sell, and not only do we think that is the right thing to do, but the most profitable thing to do historically.'

    UAW officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

    In a May 5 letter to senators, the UAW criticized GM plans to increase U.S. sales from other countries.

    'GM should not be taking taxpayers' money simply to finance the outsourcing of jobs to other countries,' the letter from UAW legislative director Alan Reuther said.

    The GM document also reveals plans to sharply increase sales of cars it makes in Mexico and South Korea while reducing the number made in Canada.

    Mexico-made vehicles sold in the United States would jump from 317,763 in 2010 to 501,316 in 2014, according to the document.

    South Korea-made vehicles sold in the United States would more than quadruple from 36,967 in 2010 to 157,126 in 2014.

    On the other hand, Canada-made vehicles would fall from 431,708 in 2010 to 330,610 in 2014.

    GM's U.S.-made vehicles would hold steady during the five-year period at about two-thirds of the total sold domestically.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"'GM should not be taking taxpayers' money simply to finance the outsourcing of jobs to other countries,' the letter from UAW legislative director Alan Reuther said."

    I gotta agree with Mr. Reuther on this one.

    But of course the Banks used the money for purposes other than the loans were intended for. Then we "loaned" them some more to reward their bad behavior.

    So why shouldn't the car companies?

    Kip
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Add airlines.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The plans are subject to change pending the outcome of negotiations with the UAW.

    GM could offer to relocate the good UAW workers to China. The cost of living there has to be a lot less than Michigan. :shades:

    If GM moves from Detroit it seems logical to go where they are cared about. Not where they are just a golden goose to kill and eat.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >'GM should not be taking taxpayers' money simply to finance the outsourcing of jobs to other countries,' the letter from UAW legislative director Alan Reuther said.

    I agree with the UAW:

    By parallel that means the senators should be getting involved in foreign car companies source of their products, which is primarily from overseas. If the senators are being lobbied by UAW to control where US companies source their products, the senate needs to look at the high percentage of imports being sold here by companies who have some plants here even. They need to make the cars here on the continent and in the US and Canada.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    post-WWII buyers wanted: large, powerful & flashy cars.

    I STILL DO!!! Where are they?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think Toyota already ruined itself in the arrogant and reckless pursuit of being "Number 1!"
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    By parallel that means the senators should be getting involved in foreign car companies source of their products,

    My story on USA content goes back to the 1970s. A town in PA mandated all their trucks be 100% USA made. The ONLY one was the VW Rabbit PU truck. I think the highest content USA made vehicle today is the F150 and it is below 85%.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    > content USA made vehicle today is the F150 and it is below 85%

    If the senate wishes to help the UAW they can mandate more US/Canada built products rather than 100% Japan or Korea or Belgium or sweden, etc.

    Just because the foreign companies have been successful in making people believe it has to be okay to import most of their cars since they produce a percentage here with their factories and some US suppliers does not make it right. If the UAW can continue to tell GM (as in the past 4 decades) where and how to do things, then the senate whom they are lobbying can tell foreign companies what they will have to do to sell cars here.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    what the union did to Eastern Airlines...once again, the highest paid airline mechanics wanted even more money, and there was none to be had...so, the union sure beat Eastern, but now the jobs are gone, and have been for years...does any union pay attention anymore, or do we just have this problem with unions like UAW that only attract idiot sheeple as their members???
  • joga37joga37 Member Posts: 9
    Did you ever hear of FRANK LORENZO @ Eastern? Thats who put the company down the tubes. Big time raider,just like Carl @ TWA.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Frank Lorenzo was a real piece of work. He did buy Eastern Airlines when it was on the verge of bankruptcy. It was the Unions that pushed the carrier over the brink. Lorenzo was able to see the value in the assets. Why else would you invest in any failing company. He was also brought in as a consultant for Wein air Alaska and Markair. Both became victims of buying cheap and selling the parts for more than the whole.

    Same goes for GM & C. People that invest in those companies hold the cards. The UAW just represents part of the company. They are not real property that can be sold. In many cases the Union becomes a toxic asset. That was the case with Eastern Airlines and now with the Domestic auto industry.

    We have had it so backwards for decades. I think the failure of this stimulus package to create jobs will show the glaring error in the thinking that labor is more important than money and good management in growing a business. Jobs are a result of someone with money and an idea creating a business. We have a GLUT of labor in this country and many others around the world. We need more people with good ideas to create businesses.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    China. Bling follows the money.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    If the senate wishes to help the UAW they can mandate more US/Canada built products rather than 100% Japan or Korea or Belgium or sweden, etc.

    This just keeps getting worse. Whatever happened to those ancient words of wisdom: "The customer is always right"? If you're unhappy because American customers are buying too many non-U.S. cars, then you should demand that American car makers do a better job of figuring out what these customers want to buy & then delivering it to them at prices they want to pay. Companies that can't do that should go out of business as soon as possible.

    If I don't like what your company is trying to sell me, it's not my fault. It's yours. Don't go whining to the government, asking them to hold my arms back while you pick my pockets. Instead, change your way of doing business & do what you have to do to honestly earn my money.

    These half-baked socialist "mandates" will never produce lasting prosperity.
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    I love US PU tracks, IMHO F150 is the best on a market, but now I live in a city, now I need a car.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think Toyota already ruined itself in the arrogant and reckless pursuit of being "Number 1!"

    Sort of like GM.
    Based upon the experiences of GM and Toyota, why wouldn't you want to be Ford or Honda instead? :P
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    what the union did to Eastern Airlines...once again, the highest paid airline mechanics wanted even more money, and there was none to be had...so, the union sure beat Eastern, but now the jobs are gone, and have been for years.

    The Eastern mechanics of yesterday are the WalMart greeters of today!

    At the rate the UAW is going, they will be greeting in a few years. ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    To be brutally honest, to be Honda would be the best thing nowadays. I think they actually posted a profit whereas even Toyota and Nissan are posting losses. Hitachi just posted a record $8.1 billion loss - their biggest ever.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You think? I believe those guys went on to become aircraft mechanics elsewhere or are comfortably retired today. I'd doubt very strongly that former union guys would tolerate Wal~Mart's B.S. without one of their store managers ending up in the compactor.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    To be brutally honest, to be Honda would be the best thing nowadays. I think they actually posted a profit whereas even Toyota and Nissan are posting losses. Hitachi just posted a record $8.1 billion loss - their biggest ever.

    Sometimes being #2 is a big advantage. If you can be a little smaller and happy with that, then it's all good. Honda has been very successful as a large but not huge automaker. Toyota, in their quest for size, has begun to cheapen and have problems - just like GM did. Similarly, Ford is the scrappier player with less size to bog them down. They are making an impressive effort to pull themselves out of their mess. At this point I'd buy Ford before GM, partly due to survival prospects, but also because the player who is doing it more successfully ought to be rewarded. Mulally is earning his salary, unlike Wagoner did.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I'd doubt very strongly that former union guys would tolerate Wal~Mart's B.S. without one of their store managers ending up in the compactor.

    I also doubt the Wal-Mart staff would tolerate the Union's B.S.!:

    "You mean I have to push a shopping cart toward the customers AS WELL as greeting them? That should be a different position, not my job. I'm filing a grievance."
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "Jobs are a result of someone with money and an idea creating a business. We have a GLUT of labor in this country and many others around the world. We need more people with good ideas to create businesses."...once again, you have hit the nail on the head...labor is an expendable commodity, because you need the entrepreneur to create the business and hopefully create the jobs...labor without the entrepreneur is simply a parade in front of the unemployment office, and there will NEVER be an entrepreneur that cannot find labor at some point...

    Nobody ever got a job from a poor person, and it is amazing how people forget that...labor is never the important thing, never was, never will be, at least in a capitalist society...labor will always be groveling at the foot of the employer, because no employer means no jobs...period...
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    much of the world lives in poverty unfortunately...there are only so many edisons and Henry Fords around at one time, not everybody can be a genius...if more people had decent jobs, it would be a lot better for everyone but that doesnt mean they should get uaw wages and bennies which will soon be a thing of past anyways..i read a intertesting article in washington post i think where the writer was tooling on hedge fund mgrs for complaining about how it was for UAW to be ahead of them in line because they werent complaining when aig got bailed out which in turn helped these jerks...chrysler assets are only worth about .30 on dollar anyways even if they were liquified which these As would do in a second...i am a lot more concerned about blue collar than hedge fund mgrs...so for once they took it up the , so what...many rich people thru centuries have done everything they can to manipulate system for their benefit..my company is owed 12 million by GM and Chrysler, we will see how much of a hit they take...so if i lose my job and there are none available i will have to be a leech cuz i aint smart enough to make it on my own...another option is robbing the winners in life...if we reach 40 million unemployed it will get ugly and violent
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    I second Jimbres' following posts:

    If you're unhappy because American customers are buying too many non-U.S. cars, then you should demand that American car makers do a better job of figuring out what these customers want to buy & then delivering it to them at prices they want to pay. Companies that can't do that should go out of business as soon as possible.

    If I don't like what your company is trying to sell me, it's not my fault. It's yours. Don't go whining to the government, asking them to hold my arms back while you pick my pockets.

    Right on the bullseye, Jim!!!!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    The thing about Honda is that it's consistently (well, relatively speaking) following it's mission, and no reckless pursuit of short term profit (think Toyota and those ridiculous Tundra pickups).

    Nissan is a curious case IMO, I guess being the most respected car manufacturer in Japan doesn't help much, afterall. Sales dropped and now Nissan's even asking for government help. My theory is that Honda can still rely on global sales, where they already have the reputation unlike Nissan.... yes, it's coming there but Honda got there first.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"I also doubt the Wal-Mart staff would tolerate the Union's B.S.!:

    "You mean I have to push a shopping cart toward the customers AS WELL as greeting them? That should be a different position, not my job. I'm filing a grievance." "


    Well done!
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    "You mean I have to push a shopping cart toward the customers AS WELL as greeting them? That should be a different position, not my job. I'm filing a grievance."

    If somehow the UAW started a subsidiary union and was able to organize Walmart, then the contract would be about 2,000 pages in length. And, there would be three greeters at each store at all times. Greeter 1 would simply say hello and welcome each customer, greeter 2 would be getting a cart ready, and greeter 3 would move the cart over toward the customer. In addition, the union would require that another union member be stationed at the exit to thank each customer for shopping at Walmart. Then, union would require 3 to 5 roving union helpers in parking lot at all times to offer help to customers to remove purchased items from cart and place in vehicle. These rovers would then return carts to proper stalls.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    the contract would be about 2,000 pages in length.

    And the UAW leaders have the gall to say they are not at ALL responsible for the demise of the Domestic auto industry. I can tell you what the Unions would do to Walmart. The same thing they have done to the retail clerks at Safeway, Albertsons, Ralph's etc. The Starting wages before their scatter brained strike was well above minimum wage, just as Walmart is today. When the strike ended a new hire at the major supermarkets here in So CA receives MINIMUM WAGE & minimal benefits. Top employees are also worse off. Those that are so naive to think unionizing the country will solve our labor problems are totally out of touch with reality.

    A Union would put all those people now on SS working as greeters out of a job. Walmart cannot afford to pay someone to greet us at the door $12-$15 per hour. The greeters are supplementing their meager SS incomes. The Unions such as UAW will cut the throats of 1000s of needy retirees that can help support themselves with these small income jobs provided by Walmart. Instead of denigrating Walmart we should be applauding them for hiring people no one but the Goodwill or Salvation Army will hire.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Greeter 1 would simply say hello and welcome each customer, greeter 2 would be getting a cart ready, and greeter 3 would move the cart over toward the customer.

    IIRC that's what unions did to the railroad. Every train had to have a conductor, brakeman, electrician, and one other person, don't recall his title, so every train had to have 4 union guys. Alocoholism was at an all time high with railroad workers as well in my home town.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    that's what unions did to the railroad. Every train had to have a conductor, brakeman, electrician, and one other person, don't recall his title

    ...uh, the engineer?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    From the Philadelphia newspaper:
    Eminem Takes Auto Workers to Show
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...Even as Layoffs Slow:

    Job Openings Scarce

    2.7 million job openings for 15 million unemployed? Not good! I bet most of those openings are crummy low-paying McJobs too!
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