By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
But not very well. You're always on GM discussions dissing them rather than seeing any positives. Someone who isn't concerned about the Big Three's future doesn't spend their time on the Big Three type discussions dissing them. Instead they are on the Toyota and Honda and BMW discussions telling how wonderful the cars are...????
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I love it. 7 companies are at the top of a list. They are basically in a 7 way tie yet because there is some small delta between them the "better" products are only worthy. Take a look. On a 100 point scale Honda, Toyota, Cadillac, Buick and Saturn are 1 point apart. So of course the domestics are unworthy of your love but Honda and Toyota are.
At 75 -100K the domestic products are terrible.
Got any data?
I'm having a hard time like you accepting all these plant closings and some in power are just sitting back and doing nothing. Once great communities have became ghost towns. It's happened way to many times here in Michigan, over the last 8 years. When I came back to Grand Rapids, many area's that were as I remember them traditional middle class neighborhoods have became somewhat ghetto !!!! It's crazy how much can change in 5 or 6 years !!! I wish ya'll the best of luck in Dayton, a once proud and very solid manufactoring staple of our country. It's really ashame that blue collar city has lost so much of what made it great.
-Rocky
Toyota people won't like this
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/07/lexus-leads-j-d-power-dependability-study-14t- h-year-straight/
Let me know if and when Toyota or Honda are close to Bankruptcy. Sure they are hurting but hey are not in CCU/CCU waiting for the government heart transplant!
Regards,
OW
Lucky I have the 330xi to provide SAFE transport.
The Detroit 3's future is tentative at best...you know one at least will fail. To me, they have failed already. To you, they are just waiting to present the second (or is it third) Coming!
You should see me in the Luxury Lounge regarding BMW, Audi, Infinity and Lexus. Come on Over, The cars are FINE!
Regards,OW
I own & love a BMW, but not all German cars are created equal. Our Audi was easily the worst car we've ever had - a rolling catastrophe that cost us buckets of money to maintain before we finally unloaded it for a tiny fraction of what we paid for it.
The nicest thing I can say about Audis is that they're OK for the leasing crowd. But I don't go in for leasing, so I'll never again have an Audi in my garage.
Well so much for the notion that people from the south are well "peachy" and love building those transplant cars !!!!
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/07/lexus-leads-j-d-power-dependability-study-14t- - - h-year-straight/
I saw no mention of the Lexus, gas/accelerator "sticking" problem that has been all over the news. Imidazol97, have you seen any story's regarding that subject. There are links on the internet regarding accelerator sticking issues and it's not from the driver's floormats getting caught up in the gas pedal, like Toyota, officials tried to claim at first !!!! :mad:
-Rocky
-Rocky
UAW and Mitsubishi agree to 8-day contract extension
NORMAL, Ill. -- Representatives of the UAW and Mitsubishi Motors North America continue to meet to negotiate a new labor agreement.
Both sides have agreed to extend the current contract for eight days until 11:59 p.m., Sept. 5, 2008, to facilitate arriving at an agreement that is in the best interests of both parties. The original agreement was due to expire at 11:59 p.m., Aug. 28, 2008.
Both parties have continued their agreement that neither the union nor the company will make any additional public comment regarding our ongoing negotiations.
http://www.uaw.org/news/newsarticle.cfm?ArtId=495
-Rocky
UAW-made vehicles lead in J.D. Power quality rankings
No one needs to tell UAW members at General Motors, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC that the state of the industry and the national economy present difficult challenges.
But even in these exceptionally hard business conditions, UAW members rise to the occasion. Recent developments at each automaker illustrate how our members fight through the bad news and work hard to produce exceptional vehicles for the public.
In the J.D. Power and Associates' recently released Initial Quality Survey (IQS), Ford improved at a rate faster than the industry average, beating its 2007 score by eight points. It placed two UAW-built vehicles, the Lincoln Navigator and Ford E-Series van, as highest ranked and followed it with the Ford Ranger and Mercury Sable taking second-place awards.
And in J.D. Power's Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) study, Ford improved by 12 points, driven by the Ford Focus, which improved by a whopping 88 points, the single most improved vehicle in that study. The Mercury brand notched a 12-point improvement.
"The study confirms what we've always known: UAW members have been building top-quality cars and trucks for years," said UAW President Ron Gettelfinger. "We can be proud that our members are the most productive and skilled workers in the manufacturing world."
Chrysler was up 19 points in the APEAL survey, with the Town and Country minivan leading the way. The Dodge Caravan helped that division improve by 10 points. GM, not to be outdone, saw its Cadillac division improve by nine points, while the Acadia crossover helped GM post a 10-point gain.
J.D. Power wasn't the only recent study praising the work by UAW members: The 2008 Harbour Report said Chrysler tied Toyota as the most efficient automaker in North America, while GM and Ford have eliminated the productivity gap with the foreign-based automakers. Chrysler improved its productivity by 7.7 percent. Productivity is measured by how many hours it takes an automaker to make a vehicle. In 2001 Chrysler was 12.65 hours behind Toyota.
Plants in Toledo, Ohio, and Belvidere, Ill., led the way for Chrysler. Ford and GM also posted productivity gains in the report.
GM also had the 2008 North America Car of the Year, the Chevrolet Malibu, beating 15 other nominees at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit earlier this year. And like its two domestic counterparts who are looking to a future beyond gasoline, GM is moving ahead. The automaker's much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt, its first electrically powered car, is slated for production in 2010.
http://www.uaw.org/news/features/vw_fst1.cfm?fstId=51
-Rocky
http://www.iue-cwa.org/news/iue-cwa-headquarters-moves.html
-Rocky
Those displaced workers lost an average of $8,146 in wages last year, a total of $19.4 billion, as they took lower-paying jobs. China is also the predominant source of downward pressure on wages of other production workers, about 100 million Americans. Competition from low-wage workers in less developed countries and less bargaining power here at home pushed the median wage for full-time workers without a college degree – about 70 percent of the U.S. workforce – down about $1,400 in 2006.
http://www.iue-cwa.org/news/china-trade-gap.html
-Rocky
We don't need 4 more years IMHO !!!! :surprise:
-Rocky
1970 I bought a great little PU built by Datsun. 1976 I bought another Datsun PU that was just not that great. Would not start in cold weather. I never looked at another Datsun. Did not know they even changed their name until about 2000. So what if they have problems with their vehicles.
I want to know why my doors never shut right on my UAW built $35k GMC Hybrid PU truck? I can give you stories about most makes of cars and trucks. I want to know why the UAW is having such a hard time building a decent vehicle. I was a big fan of GM PU trucks and Suburbans. until I bought a truck built in the USA by UAW workers. Why is that? The Canadians build a good PU truck. The Mexicans built me a wonderful Suburban. The UAW is a big part of losing my business. I wanted to like that 2005 GMC PU truck. I would not have bought it if I had known it was so shoddily built. I am fine with blaming management for the paper thin sheet metal in the 05 GMC. I cannot blame the doors not fitting right on the management. That truck should have gotten rejected and or repaired before it left the factory. This was before they got their pay and benefits cut. I cannot imagine trusting them now that they are disgruntled. Far as I am concerned GM is dead. I don't think I will live long enough to get back around to them.
PS
Nissan is not on my radar. They build the ugliest of the ugly SUVs.
Where in that article did you see anything concerning the 4,200 working wage earners attitudes, state of satisfaction and so forth?
This top quality article :sick: brings up a Jeep advertisement when clicking on the Nissan's Armada "sport utility vehicle", Japanese "Auto", and Armada "SUV".
Of course being as the article was in the Detroit News probably doesn't mean it is biased in any way, MUCH!
Looks like even the publications in Detroit can't deliver a quality product.
Kip
Because the ones I've owned all started failing in that range. By 115K, the FWB was worth $2K...that was many,many, moons ago.
You can't plan to put 150K on a GM vehicle. Please understand not many people do. The Asians have much more history with high mileage service.
I am sure your Caddy is worth a lot to you but market value is less than 3 months worth of gas.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
At 75 -100K the domestic products are terrible.
Live with it! I am.
Not necessarily. My 2000 Intrepid has about 141,000 miles on it. From the 75-100K mark, it wasn't particularly troublesome. I have a spreadsheet where I track costs, and in that mileage span, it cost me about $1,186. That included new tires at 76K, a coolant flush and new belts around 86K, about $300 worth of work when the oil pressure light started coming on, before it was finally fixed, correctly, for free with a TSB. :mad: Transmission service around 90K, and new front pads and rotors around 98K. Plus various oil changes and a PCV valve or two, and some taillight bulbs.
As for GM cars, I had a 1986 Monte Carlo that my Mom bought new and gave to me in 1998. It had 192,000 miles on it and was still running strong when I got t-boned while delivering pizzas, totalling the car. Also had an '85 LeSabre that my grandparents bought new. Grandmom gave it to me when she gave up driving. It had about 157,000 miles on it when we got rid of it. Admittedly, it needed some work and had no brakes at that point, but it also sat around alot in its later years, and we sort of slacked off with maintenance and let stuff pile up. I would have put the money into it if I really needed the car, but at that point it was just one spare car too many.
I still have my Granddad's old '85 Silverado. It only has about 128,000 miles on it, but spent a lot of its life sitting around, not getting used. And often sitting on the grass, which isn't good for cars.
Basically, I've known enough people that have had experiences ranging from excellent to awful, and everything in between, with both domestic and foreign cars, that it's not enough to sway me either way.
Obviously the Tempo was the worst, but somehow he managed to go 90k with very little trouble. I drove it while at college and it was dead by 105k. The Crown Vic went to 235,000 with no major failures other than a couple starters and a fuel pump. Granted, it was thoroughly worn out. My dad's current '00 Taurus is nearing 170k and the only expensive thing to fail was the radiator a few months ago and the car has less squeaks/rattles than my wife's 07 Grand Prix, that Taurus is impressive in how tight it has remained..
My grandpa has had similar service with most of his full-size GM vehicles through the 70's to early 90's. His last two Park Ave's '97 & '00 were horrible. Electrical issues, intake, head gaskets etc.
My personal experience with domestics are mixed. Probably the most reliable domestic I've owned was an '96 Mercury Villager, but that had a Nissan engine/trans. The GM products we've owned have been disappointing. My wife had a '92 Saturn SL2 that burned as much oil as gas by 60k miles, a '01 Impala that had the engine cradle, steering shaft issues etc, my '00 Suburban that had several major components fail by 60k, not to mention horrible fit and finish rattles, squeaks etc. My wife's 07 Grandprix that is reliable, but has fit n finish issues with poor gaps/panel alignment and is just a crude car all around.
I don't doubt the Lemko's of the world that claim great things about their GM vehicles. I know others that have had the same type of experience. OTOH, their are a lot (probably more) like me who've had just the opposite.
I'll bash GM as much as anyone, but I still consider GM products when shopping. I'd certainly consider a CTS if I was in the market for that type of car, I really like how that car looks.
When replacing my Suburban, I shopped extensively at Chevy and GMC dealerships for an 07 or newer Suburban/Yukon Denali XL, but came away disappointed with fit n finish, how they drove/rode etc. I ended up with a fairly loaded '07 Eddie Bauer Expedition that felt much tighter, is quieter, no rattles, better fit'finish etc. Sure, I like the styling of the GM utes, but a pretty face is not enough. The GMs had a softer ride, but that turned into a pogo stick ride on the country roads here in Illinois, the Expedition is firmer, but much more controlled on those same roads. Plus the Expe has a higher towing and load capacity than a 1/2 ton Suburban/Denali XL and was cheaper to buy, plus a more usable 3rd row and my back no longer hurts. I push a button instead of breaking my back to rid of the 3rd row seats.
Will the Expe be reliable? Who knows, I've already had to take it in under warranty to reprogram the trans as it was shifting funky, so far the reprogram has solved the problem. I hope that takes care of it, I probably don't want to know what a rebuild/replacement cost of a 6 speed trans is.
Up until 100,000 miles, it was reliable. The only major problem was a power-seat switch on the driver's side that needed replaced.
Since that time, however, the record has been decidely mixed. At 113,000 miles, the infamous faulty intake manifold gasket that affects many GM V-6s reared its head, leaving my parents stranded on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and requiring four figures worth of repair work to get the car running.
The starter went out earlier this year, and this past weekend it left my mother stranded with either a transmission or engine problem (they will find out today). So the record AFTER 100,000 miles has been mixed.
Fortunately for GM, my parents are of the old school - any problems over 100,000 miles should be expected, so, if the latest problem turns out be serious, they will probably buy another Buick.
Incidentally, the intake manifold gasket problem basically forced my mother-in-law to sell her 2000 Chevy Malibu (that one also had the faulty heater/AC switch problem common with many GM cars - the fan would not turn on when the switch was moved to the first position). She traded that one for a 2005 Malibu with 40,000 miles, and the clunks and groans that afflict the steering systems of many GM cars are already in evidence.
Our 2005 Ford Focus SE, which has 68,000 miles on the odometer, has been reliable. The CD player did quit playing, but the car still drives well and feels reasonably solid, considering that my wife doesn't baby her cars. The Focus feels more solid than the Malibu, which has fewer miles and cost more when new.
Overall, I would say that we will definitely consider another Ford, based on our experience with the Focus, and the independent confirmation of Ford's improved quality as shown by Consumer Reports.
Can't say, however, that we are itching to buy a GM car at this point.
rocky: This is the entire Big 3 / UAW problem in a nutshell...they not only made a piece of junk, they weren't sufficiently trained to see how defective it was, something as simple as the door not fitting right...for every lemko and andre, there are millions of gagrices that have been burned, turned off, and pi**ed off at the UAW quality of workmanship...
Talk about Honda and Toy problems all you want, they do not have problems like this, and certainly not to that extent in numbers...why can you not see that the union is the problem and has no chance of being the solution???...we are talking as recent as 2005, on a vehicle GM has been making for 50 years...you would think the "well-trained" workers of the UAW would have learned how to assemble a truck that has been unchanged in 20 years...
Sorry, rocky, you need to understand that they aren't well trained like you want to believe, and they certainly don't care as the rest of this nation has come to understand...
Rah-rah your union all you want...the thin sheetmetal, as a mgmt problem, priobably never turned off anybody, but a door that does not work is a labor problem, and that will make somebody avoid the product...
For all the satisfied people on this topic, they do not speak for the millions who have deserted the Big 3 forever, finding imports simply a better product...and while the average buyer may not know the UAW from the Pilot's Union, they know junk when they see it, and a door that does not work is a labor problem and an obvious sign of poor quality...
You better find a new loyalty other than the UAW, as they are soon to join the dinosaurs in ancient history...sad part is, the dead UAW won't decay into one drop of crude oil...
Both cars were well maintained and garaged every night.
The GP gave me decent service but the cheapness killed me the entire time. I paid about $23K back in '97 and now this model is finally being put to rest! RIP!
The 2003 Denali has been rought with problems and we are not happy with the quality. Again, garaged and well maintained but last GM people hauler we will own.
I got tired of fixing 3 -4 year old cars because of real crappy parts that should last well over 50K miles under light duty. Real junk in my reality. I am not even close to the Lemko's of the world because I demand way better from the US manufacturers. I like to return junk very early!
I think you made a great decision to leave the GM 'utes out of your buy decision. Good luck the the Explorer.
Regards,
OW
Not necessarily...designing the door to work properly, and minimizing the possibility that it COULD work poorly, or not at all, is a production engineering issue. A door that doesn't work properly is a sign of poor quality, but it's not necessarily the lineworker's fault.
The problem is that the union supporters on this thread want it both ways. They have claimed that union workers are better trained, or do the job better because higher pay attracts the best workers (which implies that GM, Ford and Chrysler UAW members are better than their transplant counterparts).
Yet, when things go wrong on the assembly line, it's the fault of engineering, and thus, ultimately, management. It's not the union worker's fault.
Which may be true (except in the case of outright sabotage, which has been documented). But if the worker isn't really all that important, then there is no advantage to having a unionized workforce - if anything, given the outdated work rules and job classifications that the union clings to (even though they were originally created by management!), along with the union's resistance to effective floor discipline, it's easy to see WHY Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai work so hard to stay union-free. The union isn't bringing any ultimate benefit to the paying customer.
And given the minimal effect that lineworkers have on the quality of the final product, it's obvious that UAW members could never demand their current level of pay and benefits, with their skill and education level, outside of the Big Three.
I'm not going to blame union members and the UAW for everything that ails GM, Ford and Chrysler. On the other hand, let's be realistic and admit that the union really doesn't bring anything of benefit to the paying customers. It's a way for the workers to get more money and benefits. Nothing wrong with that, when there is plenty to go around.
Just don't expect me to be sympathetic when the pie starts shrinking and members still want more, and don't expect me to buy a Malibu instead of an Accord so that UAW members continue to enjoy no or very small copayments for health insurance.
Did anyone catch the documentary on CNBC a week or so ago called "Saving General Motors"? They were interviewing a GM worker regarding GM's improved quality. He said they used to let quality issues go out the door for the dealer to deal with and now they try to catch and fix those problems.
That is exactly right. I own a vehicle built by non union workers in Indiana. I sold a vehicle built by UAW workers in Indiana. The fit and finish on my 2007 Sequoia is Worlds better than on my 2005 GMC PU truck. As the customer I am happy with how the workers in Indiana assembled my Sequoia. I was not happy with the way the workers in Indiana assembled my GMC PU. Did Toyota give the workers a better batch of parts to start with? I would guess that they did. Overall I am happier with the Non Union built Sequoia. So Rick Wagoner and Ron what's his name at the UAW have to get their collective act together.
The GMC had a better stereo system than the Sequoia. I would say GM has a better electronics factory in China.
Hey, now that's what I'm talking about. What a team effort! :P
Regards,
OW
-Rocky
Please re read the article slower this time !!!!
-Rocky
Go check out a door hinge on a GMT-800, and mr. genious you please tell me how the UAW, could of made that engineered part not fail ??? My father-in law who is a farmer is obviously hard on his trucks but their is no excuse to why GM, engineered shoddy door hinges. That my friend is something I will never understand ???? :sick:
"The Rock"
"Please re read the article slower this time !!!! "
Nope ! Just that there are 4,200 people, probably Americans, working there and earning a living. Nothing there about bad attitudes, dissatisfaction, or threatening to walk out.
Can't really say the same about UAW plants, can we?
The Titan and it's siblings have been plagued with quality problems since day one.
The engine is extremely strong at towing, for it's size, but fuel mileage is probably the worst in the industry. They have also had a number of component failures of other types. Makes me wonder if the engineers and "Suits" are taking short cuts to improve the bottom line with that particular product at that plant.
Our '95 Maxima was trouble free for 8 years and I would tend to buy another. However, I would not even consider the purchasing the products being built at that particular Nissan plant. Not because of the workers, but because of the component failures. That plant is producing a troublesome product, just like the B3 plants across the nation. I won't buy from them either.
When and if "they" solve their problems and establish a reliable track record, I could change my mind.
Biggest difference is that Nissan has been building fairly reliable "above average" cars for a long time. They know how to do it and have a good chance of solving the Titan line of vehicle problems. The B3 are having to learn how to build a reliable car. That is going to take some time.
However the B3 are handicapped. If history repeats, any advancements in technology, any advancements the quality of components, and any advancements in gaining back some of the market place, will trigger the UAW to raise it's ugly head in attempts to once again strangle the companies, to get some ridiculous concession. They can't help themselves. They are the UAW, that's what they do!
Kip
Someone above said that HIGHER pay attracts better people. It also attracts worse people.
I didn't check out the pickups, but I found several reasons not to buy a GMT-900 based Suburban/Yukon Denali XL. I looked at two certified used '08 Denali XLs that both had build quality issues. One had body molding alignment issues that were bad enough that I noticed it 20' away, it also had the door seals that fell out as soon as I opened the door. Both models I test drove had rattles and neither had over 10k miles on them and one had only 5,000 miles and had horrible brake shudder (obviously that is an easy fix). I didn't check where these Denali's were made so I don't know if they were UAW or not. My wife and I really liked the styling inside and out and were excited about the prospects of buying one. That is until we drove it and quite frankly, we disappointed with the ride/handling and powertrain refinement.
Same goes for the new Suburban. 5.3/4speed combo, no thanks, the gearing sucks for towing, no rear IRS or fold flat seats. I didn't think those were big issues until I drove an Armada and Expedition. I ended up with an 07 Expedition for several reasons. 1) I found a color combo (black and gold with black and tan leather) I really liked, 2) Option for Option it was about $3-5k cheaper than any comparable Tahoe/Suburban and $15k+ less than a used Denali, while having a higher cargo/towing capability. 3) The rear IRS makes a big difference regarding how the Expe drives. Very controlled and refined. Honestly, the GMs felt old in comparison . The Expe was the last ute I drove and was really impressed with how comfortable it is and how it feels from behind the wheel. Sure it could use more power, but the 6 speed makes the best of what the 5.4 has to offer and is awesome for towing.
Yes, the GM utes have a softer ride, but it is far less controlled and felt like a pogo stick going over quick humps and bumps, plus the rear solid axle felt a bit clumsy, and the steering vague. The Expe is far tighter with much better steering feel and better suspension control, but it does ride a lot firmer which I prefer (others may not). The extra firmness comes in handy when you have lots of tongue weight on the hitch.
I did drive the first 2007 GMC crew cab delivered to San Diego. It was noisier than my 2005 GMC. I then drove the 07 Escalade and Denali which I liked both. My wife did not like the looks of the Escalade and the GMC dealer thought he could screw me on the Denali. So when I sold the 05 GMC myself for a very good price, I bought the Sequoia. Which I like driving better than the Denali. I think the Denali & Escalade are built in Mexico. No PU I have driven since my 1993 Chevy 3/4 ton has been as solid feeling. Including my 1998 Suburban. Though the Suburban was better riding.
I am not sure how you can blame how two parts fit on the engineers, unless ALL 2005 GMC extended cab doors did not latch properly. I find that hard to believe. Though it is possible. It is also possible my dealer did not have any competent body people to adjust it. I think it should be clear that GM is at fault, no matter who in the chain is responsible. The UAW is an integral part that needs to do a lot to change their image to the American public.
The Expedition has higher US content than any of the GM products. AALA says 95% on the Expedition. It is probably UAW built. Maybe Ford has figured out how to get the worker bees to work better.
rocky: when a door does not fitm blame the UAW...unless EVERY door was poorly designed (then blame mgmt), most doors need to be fitted to the frame, just like the hood...they can be mounted crooked and not close properly and that is a labor problem...
"They were interviewing a GM worker regarding GM's improved quality. He said they used to let quality issues go out the door for the dealer to deal with and now they try to catch and fix those problems."...rocky...what does it take to get you to see the reality and pull your head out of the sand???...they sent out the finished product not caring whether parts fit or not...and you can't see a labor problem???...and you think the union stands for quality???...you really come across like the child who won't stop believing in Peter Pan, the difference being the child grows up and sees the truth, you refuse to do so...
A GM worker finally summed up (assuming that the CNBC show was broadcast, as I did not see it myself) what is wring with the Big 3...make anything that will roll on 4 wheels and hope the dealer can fix it under warranty...that is why you will soon be reading the tombstone of the UAW, because they made junk, they know it, and now they admit it...combine THAT with 25 years of production and you can easily see why Americans have left the Big 3 in droves...the buying public won't know it is UAW, but, like gagrice, they can see a door that does not fit,and door seals that fall off a new car when the door is opened...that does not give a buyer confidence when sitting in a car in a dealer showroom, when they close the door and it does not close properly...like it or not, if the door won't close then the remainder of the car, by common sense and divine law, will be junk...if they are that careless about workmanship on the obvious door, rest assured that the build quality underneath is even worse...rocky, your union loyalty is admirable, but will bite you in the end...and there simply are NOT enough "lemkos" to allow the Big 3 to regain the market share lost over the last 30 years...
rocky: Kia is STILL hiring and divorce laws are better in GA...:):):):):)
Since the postwar years, when Henry Ford II made it a priority to erase the legacy of Harry Bennett, Ford has had the best relationship with the UAW among all of the domestics.
Note that during the last round of contract negotiations, Ford was FAR ahead of GM in getting the UAW locals to agree to more competitive operating agreements at each plant. Ford also wasn't plagued by wildcat local strikes during the contract ratification process, unlike GM.
I care about the VEHICLE, not whether the labor is union or non-union. Which, judging by the people I talk to outside of this board, is the view of most car buyers. I think that union members spend far too much time talking to friends and family (who are likely to be either union members, or pro-union), or staying at UAW camps, to understand that what they read in Solidarity isn't necessarily the gospel truth.
Regarding GM - it has been poorly managed for too long, and part of that poor management stems from the handling of labor issues. The UAW can be stupid, and some of its supporters have a view of both history and present that does not appear to be based in reality, but the bottom line is that GM and Chrysler have mismanaged their labor relations...Ford does a better job in this area.
I remember, back in 1986, when I bought my 2nd Honda, a 4 door Accord, I simply asked a GM worker to sit in it or take a drive with me, JUST TO SEE SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES IN THE PRODUCT...I was not trying to cram anything down his throat, just give an honest look at the product...
He simply wouldn't...he would not even LOOK at it from 10 feet away, like a child who was afraid to go into a dark closet because of the monster that may be hiding in there...considering he was a man in his 40s at the time, I was amazed at the childishness, immaturity, and ignorance exhibited by this person...
Ah yes, a sample size of one. They must all be idiots.
Just like those who base their opinions on one vehicle or the comments of a few others. Scientifically derived data cannot be right if they are on the wrong side of the data.
That is my position as well. I would prefer that the vehicles I buy are Made in the USA. Both union and non-union workers need to eat and have a place to sleep. I don't consider one American any more deserving than another, just because a person had someone get them into the UAW when they got out of High School. There is NO evidence that any part of the USA produces better workers than any other.
I'm going to remember that comment the next time GM supporters wail about the latest Consumer Reports survey results.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I know a guy who worked in a GM cafeteria. They had a lightbulb go out and the guy replaced it. He got written up for doing an electrician's job, by putting the light bulb in! He no doubt prevented someone from getting injured by fixing the light! It is crazy!
I own four Chevrolets, and feel like a dope sometimes for not buying something made in a better run operation. Someone needs to learn a lesson.
Hmm, I always thought the phrase "that's not my job" was coined by the federal government, but maybe it was the unions! :surprise:
So, all of us gov't funded cube farm dwellers can keep the original for ourselves
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
here is a link to info on the "Saving GM" CNBC documentary. saving gm
It will be airing again in September. It was worth watching.
Here is a link to the part where they talk to a long time line employee. GM employee
If the link doesn't work just go to the Saving GM page on CNBC's site and click on the link called Kennedy's career at GM.