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Comments
Medicare IS National Health care. Don't expect anything better from the Government. If all these so called National Health Care programs were so good you would not have people flying into the USA for treatment. Such as the poster from Sweden. Most National Health Care plans are very basic and sometimes like Canada, have long wait times for treatments. Even with serious life threatening illness. The Feds started taking out money from our paychecks for Medicare in 1966. So I paid in 40 years to that plan. With an average lifespan of 70 for men in this country I will get that service 5 years. I currently pay $126 per month for Medicare taken out of my Social Security check. My employer and myself paid in over $50k dollars during my career for MEDICARE. Without figuring interest that is about $11,500 per year for health care. I could have bought a real nice health & dental care plan for $958 a month that the Democrats extorted from me over my career. So tell me why should GM pay the UAW retirees health care when they paid into Medicare their whole career?
I have a hard time talking to you on these issues because as a union supporter it bothers me that you are a globalist, pseudo-capitalist !!! :confuse: The teamsters I know think a lot more like me than you !!! They are very pro-american, and think we need to rid ourselves of all this shoddy lead tainted goods we import from those commies !!! I never though of myself as having a silver spoon compared to most kids growing up !!! Michigan, use to be a beacon of good jobs from white collar to blue collar and their use to be a mutual respect among all of us playing a major part in contributing to the good of the country. That nationalism, has been lost !!!
The UAW, workers are better trained, have more pride, than their non-union competitors. The UAW, agreed to seriously loosing up their restrictive work rules last contract. They found that plants like Lansing, MI. Cadillac plant is safer and more ergonomically friendly to the work force. The Delta plant though is a sweat shop and many injuries have occured in that plant causing surgeries of shoulders, knees, etc, for the older workforce !!!
I love how you rail against Obama, on illegal aliens even though your current president and nominee have been pushing for amnesty for the last 4 or 5 years.
I will also note that Lou Dobbs, supports the Big 3 bailouts but agrees trade, currency manipulation, and some sort of content laws need to be implemented !!!
I know your golden eutopia would be the Reaganomic Theory of trickle down economics but one would think that after 8 years of that program that we need change as the world of business ethics has changed. You can't tax break corporate america into creating jobs. They will however love you if you give them a tax gift as a parting gift to help them pay for that new plant in china !!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Because it's a benefit of working some place for 30 years something this country has lost site of because the greedy at the top (insurance and pharmaceutical companies) have to make absurd amounts of profits !!! That is the problem with privatizing certain sectors. What if Bush, would of privatized social security and medicare like he wanted ??? Where would these old folks be ??? My generation would work until we are dead and given the current circumstances it looks like I and Fintail, will likely do that even with S.S. !!! :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:
-Rocky
Did I see where you are an eceonomist? Can't be. Deregulation of the retail banking industry has nothing to do with any of the problems casued by investment banks bundling MBS's with loans originated by mortgage brokers from whereever, retail bank or otherwise. You clearly live in a textbook. I was an economcs major until it became apparent that most bachelors-economics majors were waiting tables in the recession of early 90's. Don 't let me dissaude you from quoting high school text books with completely off topic material here tho...
"You assume that if you deposit $100 in a savings account, they loan $100. Wrong, they are required to maintain a reserve requirement which is about 20% and therefore they lend your $100 deposit out 5 times. So they loan out $500. If you buy something with the loaned money , it works its way back into the banking system. Suppose you buy a car, the auto dealer deposits the money in a bank. This is called the creation of money by the national banking system. I'm well aware of the macro economics, money, and banking. I'm what they call an economist and not someone that just got an MBA add on to their other degree.
What does this have to do with anything? Move away from the textbook...Please help us understand what money velocity has to do with anything about the current crisis. Pleeeeeeeeze
"I advise high net worth folks among others. At the beginning of the year I put them in cash. Its an ethical and fiduciary responsibility. If this Xmas is what I'm thinking its going to be, those retailers will be downsizing. The vacancy rate will rise and thus rents will go down if anything to lure businesses. To forecast anything but a downward spiral is just wishful thinking. People that live off churning/commissions would like volume rather than results on others investments. Again this is real money and not monopoly money. People's retirements, children's college tuition, and folks futures. If you lose 50% this year, you will have to gain 100% just to get back to where you were."
I like the moves you made but, come on, it's not ethical to time the market, correctly or not. You have a responsibility to be prudent, some whould argue timing is a fools game. If you time it wrong, ethics wont keep you working.
And what's with the monopoly money...i have real money at stake dude- unless your investment house takes monopoly money enough already. The money we collect in rent smells real too...sheeesh
At this point I advise those who seek out my opinion to invest in REIT's right now! And not in GM or Ford. Your ethics wont do much for you if you miss the boat on the upside. Sell low and buy high is not what the prudent investor wants to do so when are you advising to buy into the market?
Go check out a Simon or General Growth Retail center and tell me thier portfolio is not going to collect acceptable rents from a reasonable occupancy % and be able to survive a long protracted downturn.
There are also companies that are going to improve in a down cycle.. Right now your cllients are earning less than inflation. How long long are they putting up with that? Also my grandmother earns the same 8% yield on her stock whether it goes down or not. IF she were your client she'd be in the street with that 2%
Are those hacks telling GM to build better products, close down divisions and bring wage and benefit levels into line with the transplant operations? Sorry, but those hacks need to learn that jobs exist to make products that people want. If people don't want the products, there is no reason for the job - or company - to exist.
As hard as it may be to accept, car companies are for-profit enterprises that exist to make products that people want, and thereby earn a profit for shareholders. They are not social welfare agencies for blue- and white-collar employees.
rockylee: Well Europe and Japan, discourage foreign investment !!!
Which is why GM completely owns Opel of Germany and Vauxhall of Great Britain, and Ford has a wholly owned subsidiary based in Germany and Great Britain. And why Saab is owned by GM, and Volvo is owned by Ford. And why GM has owned stakes in Suzuki and Subaru, and Ford still owns a controlling interest in Mazda.
rockylee: Try importing a car into China !!!
A red herring. No Chinese-made cars are imported into the U.S. and won't be for another 10-15 years.
rockylee: Superior to what ??? To the minds of the sheep who read Pol Pot Reports ???
Ostriches who stick their head in the sand regarding Consumer Reports test results have absolutely zero credibility. Lots of people read the magazine; they are are all potential customers. (And for the record, more than a few independent mechanics I've spoken to all agree that Consumer Reports results are largely accurate.)
Lots of us are sick of the arrogant Detroit attitude that customers are obligated to ignore all criticisms of Big Three vehicles because they "owe" something to the UAW, or Big Three management.
The recent action of Alan Mullaly of Ford is much more productive - he brought his top engineers to the magazine's facilities and forced them to listen as Consumer Reports staff critiqued Ford's cars.
rockylee: Yeah you are right because the Japanese, have purchased the automobile media outlets !!!
The Japanese auto makers have bought up EVERY media outlet, and every organization that tests vehicles? Sorry, but you are clutching at straws. This is what desperate people whose world is collapsing around them believe, because the truth hurts too much.
rockylee: The statistics show quite the opposite of what you are saying. Are going to try to convince me that a Camry is made better than a Malibu ???? You can't be serious ???
When the long-term reliability results from surveys conducted by Consumer Reports or Truedelta.com show proof of this, let me know. I want long-term results, not results measuring the first 90 days of ownership.
rockylee: You know beter than that but that is the perception folks have. As imidazol97, has pointed out on numerous occassions that GM, cars have as few problems as Toyota's !!!
Sorry, but attempting to extrapolate reliability based on Edmunds.com postings is a faulty method for a variety of reasons, and we've pointed this out numerous times.
rockylee: What's frightening is we have so many ignorant people in this country. They let one issue consume their way of thinking even if it effects their wallet and way of life !!!
With those two sentences, you've neatly summed up the main problems with your outlook on life. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that too many UAW members and GM management personnel share these views.
That is a nice thought. Just not realistic. I always felt good about our bargaining unit when we were able to police the slackers. That has nothing to do with the intelligence of the workforce. Much of it has to do with pure luck. I was lucky to get that call from RCA in 1970 offering to take me to Alaska and give me a job. Sure I had a decent job with Pacific Telephone at the time. I was ready for a change and was lucky enough to be offered the job. RCA encouraged us to have a Union. They did not want to deal with over a 1000 people on an individual basis. RCA Global was Teamster. So we ended up Teamster. It had nothing to do with all of us being any better than anyone else. In fact most of our technicians came from out of the SE. They had the experience on the Telco Equipment we were installing to give AK long distance service.
your boss can't tap you on the shoulder when you are older and say your out of here without giving a reason
One of the important benefits of Unions. Seniority is top importance. As long as the person is able to do the job he should not be threatened by personality issues that many times come into play. I am sure I have made a few bosses want to fire me. Though when I quit to try farming, it only took two days to get my job back with a call to my old boss.
I have a hard time talking to you on these issues because as a union supporter it bothers me that you are a globalist, pseudo-capitalist !!
I am a realist and you an idealist. We live in a global community. No amount of whining and crying will change that. I came to that realization in the 1970s. It may take you a while. NOTHING is going to change with a different President. They are figure heads. Obama wants to be king and he can be that as long as he does not step on the toes that put him there. And that was not the voters. It was the people that gave him nearly a billion dollars to run his WORLD WIDE campaign. You think he is not thinking globally? I would expect a GM factory in Kenya before another one gets built in Michigan. Remember he made promises all over the World. Do you think he is going to crap on any of those countries.
The teamsters I know think a lot more like me than you !!! They are very pro-american, and think we need to rid ourselves of all this shoddy lead tainted goods we import from those commies !!!
You need to follow the news more. We are making poker chips in the USA with up to 50% lead paint. Don't ever let a child play with poker chips.
some cores were found to be as high as 50 percent lead, answering any questions as to how a clay chip hides its weight.
Lead poker chips
I never though of myself as having a silver spoon compared to most kids growing up
You were privileged compared to myself and most people I was raised with. I have a lot more than my parents had. Both my mother and stepfather died over the last 10 years, with no money. I paid to bury both. My biological father the lifelong Democrat had plenty. Which he did not share with his first two children and ex-wife, my mother. No child support from that dyed in the wool Democrat tool & dye maker. I was raised by a Republican mother that supported us working in a sewing factory piece work. They were not Union during the war. When the Unions came in they ruined the job for the fast seamstresses. That was about the time my mom met my stepfather and left the sewing factories. I was raised to despise how Unions stole personal responsibility and freedom from the workers. My Uncles that helped support us were both Union Millwrights during the war. They also complained about the poor work ethics of the Union carpenters and millwrights. So you have been fed a lot of bull in your life when it comes to the REAL TRUTH about Unions. The UAW may have been great for your family. Was it great for the rest of the USA? Now that you want US to bail out your beloved GM. You want US to embrace the UAW that is part of the reason GM is in dire straits. Thinking ill of GM and the UAW is not Un-American. The UAW is a big part of why jobs have gone to Mexico, China & Canada. Believing you should be paid when you do not work is UN-AMERICAN.
but one would think that after 8 years of that program
My Union job and 401K did better during this administration until the Democrats wormed their way into control of Congress. Look at the mess the 110th Congress has made. I did not agree with Bush on most things where he was trying to appease the Democrats. Amnesty was a big one. I am taking a wait and see on the Obama Presidency. If the stock market reaction to his getting elected is any indicator. We are in DEEP DOO DOO..
PS
The Union has never gotten me a job. I got my jobs and then joined the Union.
The new Spectra Coupe is going to be a gorgeous sporty looking Coupe from Kia. It's Mitsubishi and Kia fighting for my spending dollar for cars.
rockylee...I am interested in the new Chevy Volt for 2010. I have read up on it's engineering and it appears they've designed a propulsion system that is truly green and is innovative as well. With a small ICE motor that kicks in after burning up the initial 40 miles of electrically-propelled cruising. That small gas motor ignites to charge up the generator inside that will then start generating big-time and propel the wheels directly with that energy. Then you can drive for another 350-400 miles. I am really interested in this type of technology and I am interested in a Chevy Volt. I didn't like hearing that Chevy decided to charge $40,000 instead of $30,000 for one. They should've just kept their mouths shut until they knew for sure what the pricing for the Volt would definitely be. But they can be forgiven for that-they are truly hurting and in a crisis.
I have been turned off big-time by GM for about 40 years. I loved the GM cars of the 60's. The problem with getting interested in a Chevy Volt now is that Chevy may not be there in 2010. I am guessing they will be, though.
rock, go knock 'em over and get that job, man. I am pulling for you. I like a lot of your ideas about the economy and "free" trade and truly what has been going on for years is not completely working. But I made it after Boeing. A lot of job things are personal and are up to you. Go get that job, dude!
And, as far as the UAW goes, they have won these high wages through strikes. gagrice, you have to agree, they have won those high wages fairly. And people don't like things taken away from them after getting them. These times are truly unique, I now hear Obama is working on not only middle-income tax breaks(for example, someone earning $50,000 a year will only pay 1/2 the Federal taxes under Obama's administration)but he is also working on an economic "stimulus" check like we got under Bush. Humm...I'm thinking Band-Aids, but, like I said, we will get one in 2009 because a lot of us have already heard about this "stimulus" check, right?
To take that away from us now would be tantamount to...ummm......treason?
Before the new Administration has even began?
Understand, people, my thoughts are so now because my son and his friend have just visited us. My son grew up in the liberal NW(Everett, just north of Seattle)and he has been going door-to-door for Barack Obama in Colorado. He left because their economy is horrible. They are on their way to Hollywood to pursue music careers. Yeah, I know.
To give you an idea where he's coming from, he is one that truly believes the Bush Administration was behind the World Trade Center disaster in Sept. of 2001. :sick:
Yikes, that's a hard on to wrap my mind totally around. So, imagine him visiting us and having to stay longer because his '85 Cadillac Seville needed a starter put in. And in Willcox that meant waiting for parts and service my son hand-picked in order to get the lowest price. Taught him well! He's so liberal I can almost see Ted Kennedy in his eyes sometimes. So my comments this morning reflect a strong Bush-bashing mentality from him. They have decided to further populate California if they can't get a record contract signed. Probably get a job flipping burgers at Pink's. Knowing my son he might try getting a job in politics. I really differ from him in so many ways. I avoid politics like the plague.
A side benefit would be that LA is only about a 7 hour drive from us here in Willcox, Arizona and I could groove to driving over there to visit him and play in LA while I'm there. :P
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I was reading a blurb the other day talking about how all the "fallback" retail jobs are going away in this economic climate. All the laid off Circuit City workers aren't going to be able to go to the mall and get hired on at Linens 'n Things or Mervyns.
And soon they'll be competing with a bunch of laid off UAW workers?
Retail Losses Sap a Jobs Safety Net (WSJ)
Don't know for sure, have not examined, nor have each of them in garage and drive equal amount of miles. But, let's say that Camry and Malibu of similar quality of materials, assembly and reliability for sake of argument. So, what extra value has a UAW assembled car have over non-union to warrant their $73/hr overall cost vs half of that for non-union? List specifics.
Let's say the Rock were like Joe the Plumber wants to be and started up a business with a couple people, stayed private and kept ownership and was President. With Rock's savy and vision he grew the company to 10, 20, then 50 people. Rock would take care of his people in providing continuous training, employee growth and responsibilities, benefits, empowerment, respect and above average wages for comparative positions. But, one day, one of the Rock's operations managers hires someone with proper qualifications and in a couple months, this guy starts to try to organize workers to be union represented - perhaps UAW, Teamsters, whatever. What would the Rock do?
Remember "Be true to your school".
If Obama/Pelosi/Reid give bailout to Big 3 in late Jan, will UAW workers do early morning chants, cheers, to be thankful to Obama?
Didn't some kind of union have their members have a song they would sing on tv commercials promoting themselves?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
One thing I think you forgot. Union members are rarely visionaries. They feel they should have a big piece of the pie without any risk. They feel they should be paid when the company is not making any money. When was the last time a Union created a job that produced anything? The Unions have done a good job of alienating about half the population in this country. My wife's company was Union. Her husband that started the company was a Union Iron Worker. He kept it Union and retired with an Iron Worker's retirement. When he died his son took over the business. His son was a Union member. He quickly busted the Union. My wife who helped start the company, was never a fan of the Union. She made less doing all the job bidding, than most of the Iron workers. She felt they were a bunch of whiners and cry babies. She was a workaholic and expected everyone else to be the same. Workaholic capitalist create jobs. Unions members do not.
Save a little panic for when thing get terribly worse why don't ya. Europe's been at 10% unemployment for years. Our standards are high and ya'll act like its the end of the world. 6.5% UE sucks for those folks but the best we ever see is around 4% (considering that at any time 4% of us are changing jobs/careers/family development).
It's hard to be an undereducated worker in these times. I guess that's why my mom always said college will not be a choice like it was for her. I pray for these folks that struggle to survive but they live in the best country in the world. Don't forget that this economy completey propered after the 1970's-1980's manufacturing decline where we restructured to become leaders in the information age with technological advancement, high tech job creation, and became the most productive workforce in the world. Maybe we should fund the space programs some more and so we can develop the next teflon, velcro, personal computer and thousands of other things. Maybe we need another cold war? god help us.
These are smart creative people even if Rocky doesn't want them to work for 14 bucks an hour and would have them bussing tables.
I remember that. Look for the Union Label.
We all like the Rock. Let's just pretend and see if and how he would wear a different hat for a day or two.
There is another cold war right now. It really never died. The Soviets won, just as they were the largest victor of WW2, no matter what our propaganda textbooks claim. Maybe the military-industrial complex can spawn a new wave of prosperity...just hope it is for those on this continent, and not for sweatshop workers elsewhere.
My nephew graduated from college in Seattle. He was going to teach school. He bussed tables to help with his college expenses. When he graduated the restaurant he was working at offered him a bar tending job. He makes more than he would teaching school. He is getting ready to start post graduate work next year. Philosophy was his major. A great education for a bar tender.
There are a lot of good jobs for those that seek them out and are not locked into a certain mindset.
They will be back thats for sure, but I think we all won back when the wall came down in that now the tensions that developed the nuclear arms race and fear of communism as a viable sustainable ideaology are seen for what they reallt are.
My god we wander...
I would agree about sticking together. Some years ago, I was represented by a union (not Teamsters) at a company. They struck, and I stayed out and did picket duty outside the plant at one of two entrances. During my assigned times in the afternoons, every truck that came to entrance to make delivery or pickup just turned around. Some of the truck drivers did talk to us and ask about the strike. As soon as we gave them some info, they turned the truck around and left. They honoroed a picket line of a different union than their own. Just reporting this experience and not pro or con on the practice.
You don't need a union to make safety, process, method or any kind of improvements. Companies that empower employees to make changes and suggest improvements who then receive recognition and proper compensation employ a superior business model.
On belonging, that can be accomplished when employees feel they are a part of a team, whether their own immediate work group, specifice project teams, cross functional teams, etc as well as the overall company team.
Actually, unions probably stifle ideas on improvements that would eliminate entire or parts of employee positions if adopted.
I am for a bailout of GM, Ford and Chrysler. I just can't imagine a U.S. without these behemoths. And I am now truly interested in the 2010 Chevy Volt. I like the technology and I think that if a few of you took the time to research it fully you would be impressed with it as well. Lots of reliability potential issues, but I'm just researching for now. It's gonna be hard to wrest a Mitsubishi of some sort from my hands at this point. I am really impressed with Mitsubishi powertrains. They are used as a benchmark by the Chinese carmakers in their new cars. The Chinese are learning fast and they are really motivated. This is gonna truly get interesting in the automotive inudstry. And I think we will all benefit from this because the automakers are going to really be working hard to get us the right product at the right time.
For some reason I just got a visual of one of those car-toting large ships sinking after spilling all of the new Volvo's out in to the open sea. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Pretty hard to be a productive company when it's us vs them wheras the company and management are considered an enemy with whom you battle. Take as much as you can get and who cares of the company's health and well being.
Honestly, unions were neccesary but then they ran out of usefulnss after safetly and wages were brought up to what we percieve as good statndards.
Some mistrust is probably deserved as well, but I think the propoganda machine would have in the past potrayed the GMs and Fords as having stashes of cash, bogus financial statements, and returing 20% a year to it's equity holders. Not quite so rosy after all for the suits.
Easy, pal. Measured against other post-WWII recessions, our current situation rates as a mid-pack downturn. For all of the loose talk about another 1930s-style Great Depression, we aren't even close to the lows of the 1981-82 recession.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I agree that we're nowhere near a Great Depression scenario. I was born in 1970, so I was just a kid when we had that downturn in the late 70's/early 80's. The main thing I remember was Mom griping about paying $1.10 per gallon for gas, and trading her '75 LeMans 350 in on an '80 Malibu with a 229 V-6.
Still, I wonder if overall, this time around might actually be worse, even if we're not calling it a recession just yet? Back in the late 70's and early 80's, house prices kept appreciating for the most part, even though the recession. And in those days, pensions were much more common. The federal government had its own retirement system. And if you were a federal employee, you were basically like the Pope...guaranteed a job for life! Sure, people would still get laid off. And if you didn't get a new job in time, you ran the risk of burning through your savings and losing your home if you started missing payments.
But today's economy is much worse. Many people are getting hit not only with a job loss, but a house with plummeting value, and a 401k, if they even started one, that's quickly eroding in value.
Another problem is that most of the "success" of this current decade has been based on bubbles. First the tech, then the real estate and the rampant consumption fueled by easy credit and rising equity. This decade has also seen the gap between the rich and the middle class widen. Many high-paying jobs from the 1990's were wiped out, and have been replaced by much more menial, low-paying jobs.
Truth be told, the economy was pretty jittery through most of the 1970's, so the recession that ensued actually managed to straighten things out, to the point that the 1980's and 1990's would be a good long period of prosperity. Sure, there were some blips, like Black Monday in October 1987, a relatively mild recession in the early 1990's, and another blip around late 1998.
I think that the bad times that started hitting in 2000, and were exacerbated by the 9/11 tragedy, and then pretty much bottomed out around late 2002, would have been much worse, but lowering interest rates and relaxing credit standards sort of delayed it. Didn't make it go away, but just put off the inevitable. And now, we're finally starting to pay for it.
As for upswings in violent street crime, depression, suicide, homicide, etc, sad to say, it's already been happening. With the mortgage/credit meltdown, suicide prevention hotlines have been ringing off the hooks. People have also been resorting to extreme measure, such as torching the house to collect on insurance, having a car that they can no longer make the payments on mysteriously get stolen, shooting their entire family because they somehow feel it's more honorable than living on the street, etc.
If anything, we might be even more ill-prepared today if another Great Depression came along, than our forefathers were. Back in the day, many people knew how to live off the land. But just imagine a scene like that today...people raising their own chickens, pigs, cows, etc...that would really get their HOA's panties in an uproar! And how many people nowadays would even know how to slaughter a chicken or pig or whatever? Sure, it's one thing to kill it, but then you have to prep it just right, or the meat goes bad, and if done wrong I think it's even possible to poison yourself.
How many people could grow their own crops these days? Or do their own home repairs? Or patch up the car when it breaks down? Needless to say, if we entered another Great Depression, most of us would be screwed!
I've read somewhere that aggressive driving also increases in economic hard times, something else for lemko's gloom and doom
I think the people have been taught to not be self-sufficient in any way.
The only real thing that comes out of these times is centralization and consolidation of power...and to be on topic...those powers will do anything they can to see the UAW die.
I have grown my own garden, but it's more a supplement to my food purchases rather than a substitute.
I could probably keep my 1988 Buick Park Ave or 1989 Cadillac Brougham going indefinitely, but her LaCrosse and my DTS are too high-tech for me to diagnose and repair if something goes wonky.
I think I could survive a Great Depression intact, but girlfriend, who comes from a privileged background and is a bit of a princess still, would be finished.
I live on Long Island, which in the 1950s & 1960s was a one-company town. That company was Grumman Aerospace, & it provided extremely well-paid employment to many thousands. We never felt recessions & thought that the good times would go on forever. But after the Vietnam War ended & the Apollo space program wound down, Grumman had to drastically downsize. Home prices hit a wall in the early 70s & didn't recover until well into the 80s. During the Carter years, I couldn't drive 3 blocks without seeing at least 1 boarded-up house.
In short, the 70s were a terrible time around here because of our excessive dependence on defense contracts. Today, though, our economy is far stronger because it's based on hundreds of small & mid-sized companies instead of one huge employer. As a result, the current recession will pinch us but it won't knock the stuffing out of us.
That is a point I have tried to get across to Rocky. Michigan is a one pony show. They can try to compete making movies or whatever. Until they get out from under the UAW and the Automakers they will be slaves to that industry. Every time it has tough times it will take Michigan with it. Same can be said for states that depend on oil or military or tourism for their livelihood. One states boom is another states bust. Just the way life is. Most of the country is feeling pinched right now. I think they expected more from the election:
I was so depressed last night thinking
about the election, I called Lifeline.
Got a freakin' call center in Pakistan.
I told them I was suicidal.
They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.
1. better
2. better
3. better than best
Then in the winter of 2004 my wife and I went and saw them at another venue. After the show I was tired but didn't want to get a motel there in St.Louis. Rolla is about 125 miles or so west from St.Louis and I felt I could make the drive. As I started making it away from the venue we noticed some really bad looking buildings. Oh, man, that city has this thing going where you see a good building then there is one with bricks fallen down inside and outside of it and everything. This pattern repeats itself again and again. That was in late 2004.
It was a snapshot of what St.Louis has looked like for a long time. St.Louis may have looked it's best back in the 20's or 30's I think. This current conversation about the Depression has popped my mind in to thinking of that night after the show. Depression has been with us already for a long, long time.
Only now it's starting to affect people who never thought they'd live through this type of thing.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Of course those can't be actual per hour pay figures. That has to include benefits and pensions too, right?
No matter how they are figuring the pay, the domestic companies are getting killed by that differential.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yeah, I'm sure it includes not only wages, but also health insurance, life insurance, vacation, the portion of SS and Medicare that they pay for, and so on. I've heard that in many cases, your wages only make up something like 55-60% of your "total compensation".
And yeah you're right, that's an awfully big differential. If true, the Chrysler workers are getting over 50% more than the Toyota workers!
So why are they declining if their product is so good?
Auto mag writers bought out by Japan?
Everyone in the US that buys something other than big three is a commie idiot?
Consumers are morons in general?
To put it in simple terms. Your $100 investment is worth $50 now. 8% of $100 was $8 and 8% of $50 is $4. Cook the books all you want but thats a loser. I can only agree that this is a great time to buy a home and or car. Buffet seems to think that cash is king also, and has managed to get himself great terms from these capital hungry industries. Your assumption is that the original principal will be back at some future date. It ignores the preservation of capital as a goal. Then remember the rule of 72, divide the rate of return into 72 and you more or less get the years it takes to double your money.
IF she were your client she'd be in the street with that 2%
You fail to factor in the 4 years in a row I weighted the energy services, energy, natural resources, and natural gas. Each year was worth 40% or more. Diversification is for the ignorant. So granny would be better off heeding the advice of someone knowledgeable in money management.
True I did miss out on the real estate boom, other than my residences, which I sold and awaited for the opportune moment. I rented for three years. My feelings were that most of the baby boomer's had homes by this day in time. I saw no logic in the mania and or reason for a housing boom. Other than the normal run of the mill creation of new households, there was no economic reasoning whatsoever for the housing bubble.
Oops, I almost forgot, I missed out on gold too. Again, I'm not too keen on uneducated guessing. Only on reasonable and sane rationalizing.
it's not ethical to time the market
I disagree and consider the market nothing but a betting pool. Much like Vegas. I'm seeing many correlations to Japan in this present down cycle. If anything I've seem many more unethical things in the Wall Street rumor mill which require SEC enforcement of present regulations.
Regards,
OW
Unfortunately thats going to happen and or has a more than reasonable chance of occurring. Didn't Circuit City get rid of their older (better paid employees) and replace them with cheaper new hires? If so, that tactic didn't save them from their present condition and no one can blame a UAW/union workforce for Circuit City's woes.
That proves nothing because the auto union will go away soon...or at least be a lame duck organization.
Regards,
OW
Glad you asked.
http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=562#Wages%20at%20the%20Toyota%20Plant
" More and more these companies, unions, and employees are going to find the entitlement, they once had, is gone. Hopefully the company will still be there to pick up the pieces. "
I find myself in the extremely odd position, checking for sun spots or haley's comet oragreeing with rocky, g and kip simultaneously.
Sensory overload would be an understatement.
rocky : No we don't want the Chinese to be our overlords. Childrens's toys, dog food, baby food, pyjamas and toothpaste is proof enough of how much they value human life over 1/2 of a cent.
g: the UAW must die. Given an Obama administration and a Democratic Congress I'm not sure how that happens but happen it must.
( yoda speak) . Even if given bailout, make it a loan and remove the stigma, and they produce fuel efficient cars that people want to buy, then they are still uncompetetive. The UAW may have had a place earlier in this century, now they are just carrion.
Kip : a well balanced approach.This is the non recession , recession. In January I saw IBM annouce they were going to buy back 15b of their stock. Odd recession that. The next two quarters had positive gnp despite proclamations that a resession had been declared in early Jan'08. Ultimately the financials win with I'm in a recession so therefore you need to be in a recession too.
Kudos to your rational we are all part of the company vs. the Union vs Them mentality.
Don't throw your proxies away. Now more than ever be the gadfly. Vote against every hr overpaid member of a compenstaion comittee.
As the Who wrote : we're not going to take it "
Toyota’s Supply Chain Riddled with Sweatshop Abuse
“It was like prison.”
-Toyota Parts Worker
The workers are allowed one, or two, or at the very most, three days off a month. All overtime is mandatory. Routinely, the workers are at the factory 97 hours a week, but it was not uncommon to work even longer. For the last week of October 2007, the worker we interviewed had been obligated to work seven days, most often 16 ½ hours, from 8:30 a.m. to 1:00 a.m., putting in a 108 hour week. When we questioned him on this, he said “Yes, it is impossible, but we did it. Everyone was exhausted but we couldn’t do anything to change the situation. It was like prison.”
He worked at a large metal stamping machine, stamping out cross member bars (which are used as engine support) with a mandatory production goal of completing 1,300 cross bars per hour, or one every three seconds! The work was relentless, exhausting, numbing and dangerous. In a 15 hour shift, he would complete 19,500 operations.
So much for pointing fingers and saying how great the workers in Japan have it. UAW members are spoiled and are killing the golden goose they work for.
Yeah, I'm thinking of the UAW "jobs bank", the Starbuck's coffee and raspberry jelly donuts. I'd be lying to you if I told you that work at Boeing never included relaxing and fun Starbuck's and jelly donuts time periods. Of course it did.
What made it all too real in the end (for iluv) were the grey-suited dorks who decided that they should single-handedly play heroes and lay off 40,000+ people, just because they had the power to do so. Morons.
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