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Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
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Bring on the Volt...
Fuel Savings: No longer will I need to waste my money on premium fuel. I can go to Xavier's Brand X Gas in the bad neighborhood and fill up on his special economy blend which consists of a 50/50 mixture of kerosene and water with rocks, sticks, and bugs in it.
Tires: When the OEM tires wear out, Pep Boys' Futuras will be sufficient. No need to spend my money on exotic brands like Goodyear, Michelin, or Pirelli.
Insurance: Collision? I don't have no stinkin' collision! I don't need no stinkin' collision!
Parts: Get the Great 'Yota feeling with genuine Wal~Mart parts!
Ease of Parking: The Camry might actually be longer than my 1988 Buick Park Avenue, but it will be easier to park. Of course my neighbors won't like my sudden diminished driving skills as I hit whatever happens to be in front or back of me as I could care less about scuffing the Camry's bumpers.
Smoking: For the first time ever, I and my passengers can smoke in my car!
Eating: Ditto!
Dogs: My friends with dogs will love me. Fido needs to go to the vet? Let me take him!
Body Shop Repair: Heck, I won't need the expense of a body shop should I dent or wreck my Camry. I can just ignore the damage or pound it out with a ball peen hammer. Oops! I tore the metal! Oh, nothing a little Bondo and Krylon can't fix. Other tools required will be duct tape and bailing twine.
Oil: Mobil 1 synthetic? Feh! The recycled stuff in the 5-gallon jug at the dollar store will be sufficient. Oh, cool! They sell filters too!
Cleaning: Wow! Think of the hundreds of dollars I will save since I no longer need all those fancy waxes, polishes, soap, and other detailing materials! Think of the savings on my water bill since the rain will be sufficient enough to clean my Camry!
I Can Suddenly Go Anywhere: What's that? you want me to drive down to North Philly at 2 AM and pick up some crack for you? No problem!
My Relationship Will Improve: No longer will I hear my girlfriend complain about me showing the car more attention than her. In fact, I will be spending a lot more time with her as the car will no longer be a distraction.
I see the Volt as another GM failure in the making. Congress has put $7500 on the hood of the Volt and any other EV meeting the 16 KWH battery criteria.
I have a novel solution. Why not encourage Mitsubishi to build a huge factory in the US for their soon to be released MIEV? Build it in a state like Nevada that is hard hit by the Housing bubble. It meets the criteria to get a $7500 tax credit. They are supposed to sell in the $24,000 range with Li-Ion batteries. They have 100 mile range that should satisfy all but the longest commuters. $16,500 is about half of what we will be expected to come up with for the Volt. And GM claims they will lose money at the $40k price point. Why encourage GM to build cars that lose money? Are you listening Iluv? I am pushing your car. I like it myself and would buy at the expected price to run all my errands that do not require a PU truck. Congress needs to take a look before they throw our money away on domestics with no hope for the future.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=124867
I think more truth than fiction. I don't see much pride taken in the Japanese sedans around here anyway. Just an appliance to fight the traffic to and from work. Here in So Cal the Big PU trucks and SUVs get all the attention and Bling. The Buicks and Caddies are driven by retired military. Easy to tell by all the insignias and personalized plates.
LEMKO -- but that's the whole point. You didn't buy a Cimarron, or a '76 Eldosaurus, or an Olds Diesel, or a Citation---but a lot of people did, and they got so burned they never, ever forgot it. You also came in when Cadillac didn't have to deal with a brand called Lexus (1990)
True. My wife bought one of the first LS400s sold in 1989. Sold a Mercedes 300D and has driven the Lexus ever since. It already has 95,000 miles and still running well. I would not expect any new vehicle to last that long. Too many expensive electronic sensors to screw up. Disposable high mileage cars are the norm.
Buy an old phone truck, and you can drive anywhere you want- no one will bother you.
What hun??? Take out the garbage???? Can't you see I'm scrubbing my whitewalls???
How are you gonna get to those car shows w/o being jealous and wanting a car WORTH HAVING????
Another Wrinkle -- Some forms of US government intervention may very well collide with rules and regs of the World Trade Organization and have global implications for this country.
Very good point. We make a big fuss or should when governments subsidize industries that we compete with. Aircraft comes to mind. Do we really think we can compete with China if the Chinese government puts subsidies on what they sell US. I know they have done some currency manipulation to protect their industries.
I think the G20 are meeting in Washington today. They may have something to say about the situation. Any kind of bailout is anti capitalistic.
Then, if true, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Any how, did you see this pic I put up on Edmunds a few days ago. I have the Pinanfarina-Bollore website saved to my faves at home but here at work I don't. I searched on Google for it and got two sites, one has my post here on Edmunds with the picture! Whoo-hoo!
Here the little beast is:
This thing will have underneath and balanced placement of it's battery pack(Bollore made, I need to access that website to get the particulars on the battery packs)for better handling, about a 200 mile range, a top speed of 85 mph and a charge-up time of 7-8 hours on a common 120-volt socket at your American homes.
The hinge-point in my research on this little car is whether or not Pinanfarina-Bollore will import this little monster to the U.S. I will go research when I get home some more and bring some more venison to this table for y'all. I am certainly interested in this car...my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is currently sitting at about 29,235 miles, getting set to get it's 30,000 mile service soon. So there's really not a screaming need for a 2010 Mitsubishi i-MIEV or a 2010 Pinanfarina-Bollore super-mini in my SE Arizona driveway.
But, gagrice, you may have read my Edmund's posts of several months ago where I stated my thoughts on "green" technology vehicles. I have firmly planted my foot in the shipbeds of manufacturers who are working on bringing these types of vehicles to our fine shores. Mitsubishi has won me over, as a lot of you know I have been an ardent Kia fan for years. I still believe Kia is here(West Point, GA, USA)and is in S.Korea to stay. I have stated this fact for years, a lot of times to hoots and catcalls.
But Kia is lagging a bit, both with a sporty 4-door sedan that I longed for, and with an all-EV or hybrid vehicle ready to buy at this time. They have now designed a new Kia Forte sedan and Koup that are real lookers. There's a great chance I would've traded the '01 Sportage 4X4 in on a Forte 4-door sedan if it were available in 2007. But it wasn't and the Sportage 4X4 had 130,000 miles on it, was meticulously maintained and was ready to trade. Avondale Mitsubishi treated me well in my trade-in for the '08 Lancer GTS. I made sure they did, the small SUV was very well cared for. BTW-Kia has apparently decided to retain the Spectra name for the new Forte that is coming here in 2009. It's a beautiful new car, body designed by Peter Schreyer, Kia's new Design Chief, wooed away from Audi Motors. Schreyer designed the Audi TT.
So, long story somewhat shorter, I have a late-model Mitsubishi Lancer GTS that I love. I also have a yearning to drive an all-electric. gagrice, I'm all over this new i-MIEV from Mitsu like "white on rice." Tee-hee. I really am. I'm following the i-MIEV from Mitsu and the rig from Pinanfarina-Bollore like a hawk. Or perhaps a Seahawk. No, make that a hawk.
If Misubishi is going to sell the tiny i-MIEV for only $24,000, then the $7,500 knockdown in price with the energy rebate would be a coup for us. It is quite likely an i-MIEV from Mitsubishi will be my next choice, however, when the Mrs. and I get wild hairs and want to go play in Tucson, 80 miles NW of us here, what will I do with an i-MIEV that only has a traveling range of 100 miles. Plug in somewhere's in fair Tucson? Maybe the only Mitsubishi dealer in Tucson, Wildcat Mitsubishi? Or at Ideal Mitsubishi in Sierra Vista, AZ, about 90 miles west of us here, located near Fort Huachuca. Remember, too, Mitsubishi offers a generous 10 year and 100,000 miles Warranty. That figures strongly in to this search result.
These are by no means insurmountable problems here, gentlemen. An excited schoolboy with a chipped front tooth looking like Jim Carrey in 'Dumb and Dumber' going after Mary Swanson(OK, I'm not quite that excited for an all-EV :shades: )on a mission will spare no prisoners and take no down-hearted souls' negative advice as he seeks out a viable energy-propulsion alternative. Foreign oil is vile...it's going bye-bye and it's old-hat. It's spittle in the dusty Arizona flutter-winds. It must pass on by me like Dennis Rodman into relative obscurity. Be gone with you, ghastly!
gagrice, the Chevy Volt is not scratched off my list but it's beginning to fade. When they make comments like "we may not realize a decent profit pricing the 2010 Volt at $40,000" I look to the side, just as I would when Baw-bwa Wahh-Wah is ready to speak on "The View". Yikes, Barbara, has the word "retirement" ever entered your mind? You were never really that good and yet you intend on scouring our televisions endlessly? Enough already.
So, it's the '08 Lancer GTS, the 2010 Mitsubishi i-MIEV and the 2010 Pinanfarina-Bollore(that may not ever be coming over here, anyway)that have my interest at this point, gagrice. The next purchase is really pointing towards an all-electric.
As a side point to boot, BYD of China is building some hybrids and all-electrics, one all-electric is named the e6, with intentions of eventually importing to the U.S. with some of them. Keep an early eye out-they'll make it here. The e6 is a large crossover that BYD envisions selling for taxicabs(taken from one of their news releases)that is really not that homely looking at all, actually. It has a decent body design. It will sell for around $28,000USD. Range of 200 some miles, top speed of 85 mph and is another EV with a 8-10 hour 120-volt re-charge time. I would be remiss to cross the BYD e6 off of my list, but, the i-MIEV stands a sooner chance of landing on these U.S. shores. The Pinanfarina-Bollore is more of an idea of what I'm really more interested in at this time, but it's entirely possible that that train may have sailed before it even gets here.
Over.. and, out.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
They have had a "great plan with a turnaround just around the corner" for soooo long. Why is anyone convinced that now is any different, even if the economy HADN'T tanked?
Me, I don't think we need our own automakers if they are going to be perennially unprofitable. Better then just to leave automaking to companies that know how to do it and make money at the same time.
As for the bailout, where was the steelworkers' bailout? The clothing manufacturers' bailout?
If GM did liquidate, established automakers from all over would step into the void and buy up some of the brands and keep them running with all-new products uniquely their own, I'm convinced. If for no other reason than that large and established dealer network. INDIVIDUAL names and products at GM have cash value, the problem is just that the vast majority do not.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They got theirs earlier this decade. Bush administration lifts steel tariffs CNN
Looks like clothing tariffs still exist.
I think one or all of the Big 3 could remain unprofitable. Going out of business slowly in this climate may be easier for the country to absorb than a bankruptcy reorganization by GM or a liquidation sale by Chrysler.
"In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn out the lights. Only government money can prevent that."
The Cost of General Motors' Death Much Greater Than a GM Bailout, Editorial Says
Regards,
OW
Either way, no pain, no gain. Change hurts and big change hurts big time. At the end of the day, they will get help from us.
First I have to buy second rate product and now I have to bail them out...along with the financial thieves. I love this country! Really. No matter what happens, there is always a second chance!
So, the moral of the story is " Relax! It will all work out just fine."
I really can not wait for the new cars produced as a result of a major overhaul of this industry. Perhaps in 3 years or so.
Regards,
OW
If I am right, then the victory will go to the technological leaders, not the design leaders/style leaders, and that does not give me a good feeling for the future of the Big Three.
As far as the future of the Big Three relating to design, retro was only one way to go but you can't tell me they led the way in design over the last 30 years which they should have. (I look at the Cobalt and feel PAIN!) I believe that the basic structure of these companies limit their capabilities in the end after a certain critical mass is reached in terms of size. Cutting quality of parts and design got them where they are today. Nothing is more telling than the disaster interiors in the GM stuff up until 2008 saw CTS, Lambda and Malibu. What, they all of a sudden woke up?
It might have been better off to have 10 auto companies in the US instead of one. Failure of all 10 at the same time would be far removed than we are today.
Toyota is getting there fast and should continuously re-invent itself to stay solvent. They have a far better strategic infrastructure but cracks have been forming of late.
Who knows what the future brings but I would welcome many companies the size of BMW or Mercedes in the US to stimulate competition and better products in design and tech. Perhaps we already can see this will take place as the global players face the new reality.
Regards,
OW
I don't see how a computer is going to fit pieces of plastic and steel and glass together any more imaginatively than before. Remember, this is a finite universe. We are not talking about thoughts or ideas or undiscovered technology, but doors and windows and fenders in 3D space. The combinations are limited. If anything, computers merely accelerated the End of Design.
So I'm betting that new technology will have the same appeal that "design" used to have. Instead of "looking good" we will be "working good". Electronics will become a status symbol rather than fashion being status.
Don't you think that this, in a sense, explains the success of Toyota Hybrids and BMW 3-Series cars? Toyota's Prius and Mr. Bangle's trunk lids certainly can't be called "pretty".
Just curious, what decisions went into you and your wives' moves to foreign nameplates?
But I do agree I'd rather see a preference change to Working Good from Looking good. Perhaps that's one of the strengths the new paradigm for US Auto needs to pursue because the other global competition are far ahead here. just in build quality alone and mechanical integrity. In terms of status from that perspective, the lines in the sand were drawn years ago.
Yes, the Prius and the Bangle designs are tough on the eyes but the hybrids appeal is a new status. But don't you think we have a way to go on the looks side of things?
Regards,
OW
The job loss figure of 2.5-3 million being bandied about is from a study just completed by the Center for Automotive Research. Who is funded in part by, guess who? The domestic automakers. :sick:
Who knows what the future brings but I would welcome many companies the size of BMW or Mercedes in the US to stimulate competition and better products in design and tech.
I too would love to see this. Our market is saturated and totally dumbed down now in part because of the undue influence of the Big 6. There is no originality or real variety in anything they do any more. I would like to see all of them lose about 1/3 of their market share in order to allow more influence from a variety of global automakers on the vehicles available here, and consequently start a revolution in design, but so far only the domestics have been good enough to oblige me. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Yes, the Prius and the Bangle designs are tough on the eyes but the hybrids appeal is a new status. But don't you think we have a way to go on the looks side of things? "
I have chosen to respond to those who actually understand economics who I respect as opposed to the California green's . It is so hard to endorse a bail out. So let's call it a loan and get rid of the stigma. Here's why I support a loan lest some think I have chosen the dark side . The fallout would be abysmal . 2 + million on the unemployment rolls at a weak moment in our economic cycle. Sayeth not the " D " word. The unemployment benefits paid out for a collapse of the big, err medium three plus ancillary suppliers may well exceed a bailout , err loan. The 8,000 suppliers to the three also are the suppliers to Honda, Toyota and Nissan in the US. I really don't want Chinese after market parts lest we get cardboard instead of real brake parts.
They're wildly guessing and trying to make it sound as dire as possible. Not that it wouldn't be bad.
One of the biggest flaws in the "x million will lose their jobs" argument is that car demand will still exist and be nearly the same whether GM goes under or not. Those buyers will buy elsewhere, and some nameplates will see increased demand, which will require more jobs to satisfy.
To some degree, yes. But BMW manages to build very desirable cars. Toyota managed to build the Prius. I see that the CRV is the best-selling SUV and was the first "small" SUV in Japan.
Perhaps the problem isn't that GM is not innovative. It's just that their innovations are pop flys while the competitors' innovations are sometimes home runs:
Home Runs:
- Prius
- PT Cruiser (when originally introduced)
- New Mustang
- BMW 3-series
- CTS (new model)
- Malibu (new model)
- Honda Civic, current generation
- Mazda 3
- Camry/Accord (for at least 20 years, continuously)
Pop flys/outs:
- HHR (copycat vehicle to PT Cruiser)
- Aztek
- GM minivans
- Pontiac GTO
- Saab (all)
- G6 (maybe a bunt single)
- Saturn VUE Greenline
- Two-mode SUV hybrids
- Camaro (probably; copycat concept to new Mustang)
- Volt (probably; attempt to leapfrog Prius technologically)
The auto plan funding plan needs to be finite with measured results over an agreed time line with hurdle rates for improvements and payback. I am skeptical that the existing management structure can accomplish the necessary work which will be massive and the biggest issue will be unions who believe they are complete with UAW negotiation and it's all on the business side now. No, everyone feels more pain from this point.
Within this massive initiative, nothing is off the table. Nada.
Nameplates and jobs must go across all 3 companies. The dealer network needs massive changes as well and should be part of the overall plan. The objective is to improve every facet of the supply chain towards the highest customer satisfaction.
These changes should be part of an overall revitalization of the manufacturing base in the U.S. It's been too long that greed and indifference have allowed our products to degrade to this level and to be blindsided by an economic downturn is short sighted at best for any management worth it's weight. Financial or manufacturing.
Where is the vision? Market blindness, Energy blindness now Economy blindness?
Not in my world of acceptable corporate guidance. Like I said, now it's GO TIME in more ways than one!
Regards,
OW
My opinion is that almost all cars* (including those from US manufacturers) are pretty good today in terms of reliability. Price is not too much of an issue for us, either, we could spend just about whatever we wanted to, but prefer to spend less and really only looked at cars priced up to about $30K (we don't really like leather and this tends to be forced on one in the luxury category). So we would consider buying just about anything.
It pretty much came down to: does it look okay, is the seat comfortable, how does it drive. For us GM (and Toyota) cars generally do not pass the seat comfort test and I suspect they would generally not have the kind of ride and handling that we like.
When my wife was buying in 2005, there really was not much to consider from the US companies in the compact to mid-size category. The only cars she liked well enough to drive, based on the auto show look and sit test, were the Jetta and Volvo S40. Prior to this she had driven the Passat and the X-type.
In my case, I ended up deciding between the Fusion, Milan, and Mazda6 and had also considered several others, but less seriously (but nothing from GM or Toyota). It really just came down liking the looks of the Mazda better. Had the Accord in the US been the TSX as it is elsewhere, that probably would have been a more serious contender than the hideous (to me) 2007 Accord.
*the only exception is that my wife initially liked the Jaguar X-type, but that seemed to have had too many problems and the cost of an extended warranty was far higher than anything else she liked.
This car will not be a prototype. It will be a mass production model, with the first units coming off the production line at the end of 2009, after which production will be ramped up gradually based on the availability of the batteries. Built in Turin by Pininfarina-Bolloré, a joint venture formed by the two family-owned groups, the B0 electric car will be powered by Bolloré’s proprietary LMP technology, using a combination of batteries and supercapacitors manufactured in Bolloré’s plants in Quimper, France and Montreal, Canada. The B0 will be a fully-electric vehicle without any carbon dioxide production, having been designed from the ground up with that aim in mind. Its batteries will be housed in a compartment specially designed for that purpose and located under the car, between its axles, lowering its centre of gravity and providing it with outstanding road-holding properties.
The above is taken right from the Pininfarina-Bollore website.
Note the solar panels on the roof and hood (albeit a very small hood). They will be used to re-charge the battery system. Crisp. :shades:
Pininfarina B0 is a 4-person 4-door compact electric car, with a maximum speed (electronically limited) of 130 km / h. Batteries last for up to 250 km and located at the bottom of the platform between the two axles, lowering the center of gravity machine. Roof and hood have solar cells that will supply energy to electrical equipment.
Next week, car will be presented to the French president Nicolas Sarkozy, who is a personal friend of Bolore. Sales of new models will begin in mid-2009. Planned output is 10 thousand units per year.
gagrice, this B0 and the i-MIEV from Mitsubishi seem to have strikingly-similar body sizes and sorta-similar shapes overall. These are now my two top runners for my next car. Chevy and their Volt seem to be going up in price when the Volt should be going down in price. Way down, like to about $26,995 MSRP. Over-charging Americans for your product when you're in the process of going belly-up does not fly with this padre.
One of the websites I have visited calls the Pininfarina-Bollore B0 a "small cheap car." What might that mean for the American market? $19,995 with a $7,500 Obama energy rebate? Certainly gets the mind a wonderin'.
More on this important subject later.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The big plus would be if they would build a factory in the USA and take up the slack when we lose domestic car makers. Chrysler is the only company that is dabbling in the EV realm. If we are ever going to go all electric. I would think the Domestics would be spending most of their R&D in that area.
Pininfarina and Bollore have partnered up to build an electric car that will go into production and be available in the U.S. in late 2010. The vehicle is called the B0 and it made its debut at the Paris Motor Show this week. The car is an automatic hatchback four-seater with four doors. Its powered by an electric motor and a lithium polymer battery that’s made by Bollore. This car can travel 153 miles on a full charge and it has a top speed of 80-mph. The car can go from 0-37-mph in 6.3 seconds. But a really cool feature the vehicle has are the solar panels on its roof and hood that help recharge and keep the car’s power. Pininfarina states that the battery has a lifespan of 125,000 miles and doesnlt need any maintenance. Pricing info hasn’t been released yet but as soon as we know we’ll pass the info on to you.
http://www.dubdaily.com/?p=4914
This one actually sounds more like what I want in an all-electric car. The solar panels are very smart, and we both live in such sunny areas. Especially me! :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Yes but it's not going to go 153 miles @ 80 mph is the problem. it's probably not going to go half that.
Electric vehicles, unlike hybrids, are only going to fill little niches--they aren't going to "save" any company IMO.
Regards,
OW
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If you don't want to offer the talked-about $2,000 Chevrolet manufacturer's rebate on the car, don't. But don't ask $40,000 for this car to help finance your raspberry jelly donut and Starbuck's board meetings. When are you guys gonna get hip to the fact that America doesn't like you much anymore? :sick:
And you are an American carmaker, right?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
This may be true, but a few years ago, Toyota was bragging about how they employed SEVERAL HUDRED THOUSAND people in the US. There was a small disclaimer about including jobs created as a result of them being there. Nobody disputed their claims, even though they were counting the new restauraunt that opened a few blocks from the assembly plant, that has absolutely no association w/ Toyota.
So, maybe C.A.R. includes the restauraunt that will CLOSE as a result of an assembly plant that closes due to bankruptcy. Either way you look at it, the facts that the automakers are spewing include the same factors and consequences of them being there, or not.
I agree $40K is way expensive for this car. But, at this point, GM can't afford for it to be a loss leader. However, as far as your electric only car, what price do you put on not having to plan a day trip auound an electric charge (on a cloudy day)???
Right now I don't see a reasonable explanation as to why this little all-electric shouldn't sit in my SE Arizona driveway in late-2010. Only 2,000 available in late 2010, though, so better make your connections early if you want one.
Chevy dropped out of contention for sure with their Volt with me early this morning when I learned that Pininfarina-Bollore are definite in their plans to export this pup to the U.S.
BTW-clouds are infrequent here in southern Arizona, I'm a perfect candidate to snap one of these little cars up. I have a warm and fuzzy feeling that I could experience automatic re-charge of my B0's battery pack as I travel.
Have you ever been to Arizona, cooter? I'm serious, this place is sunny so much of the time when even California to our West is cloudy and rainy, or just cloudy. This place is the perfect testing ground for one of these cars, bring 'em on!
This thing is moving fast, and I'm starting to make solid plans on buying one of these cars.
larsb, ya out there? Read up, my man!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
"It is expected to become available in Europe, Japan and even here in the good old US of A by late 2010, starting with an initial run of 2000 vehicles. In 2011, that number is targeted to increase to 8000 units, 11,000 in 2012 and 15,000 in subsequent years."
announce a price of $30,00 for this thing, I would seriously drop out of the race for one. They will have a lot of technology integrated, but they own the battery-production center, it's owned by one of the partners, Bollore of France.
For early benchmarking, you are spot on for fairly high pricing. Mitsubishi has announced prices in the $28,000 area for their new all-electric, the i-MIEV.
And these two cars are similar in size, I'll have to compare their weights later. But it would stand to reason that Pininfarina-Bollore will for sure ask more than $20,000 for the car.
I don't know, I just think that with the bad economic climate both Mitsu and Pininfarina-Bollore will have to chop their pricing expectations a decent chunk.
What do you think they'll ask for the car? I'm sticking with $22,995. I'm usually pretty good at predicting car pricing, but, this is no ordinary car. They could ask $30,000 for the thing.
One reason that Mitsubishi still stands to get my business is their generous Warranty. My '08 Lancer GTS has a 10 year, 100,000 mile Warranty. They should offer the same Warranty on the i-MIEV for 2010. So, that speaks volumes to me, if a manufacturer will stand behind their car with a Warranty like that. Pretty impressive and IMO helps add to increased sales. So that will be counter-balancing my excitement over the new B0.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Next, who sells them??? If they can make 15,000 a year, and we get 7,500, and 40,000 people want one, can you smell dealer markup???
Lastly, I would think that it would be in line more w/ the Mitsu. Remember, they aren't talking 15,000 units until somewhere around 2012, well after the Volt will be out. So it's still a long way off.
I am sticking to my estimate of $22,995. I have been wrong before, yes. :shades:
I find it interesting that they state in their press release that the car will go over 250 kilometres, which is 153 miles. So it would fit nicely in my needed mileage range.
This puts in squarely in my personal radar, as that is the range I need to go play in Tucson, which is 80 miles away to our West. You'd have to see Willcox, then you'd understand.
cooter, they're not gonna overprice this car, believe me. gagrice, what is your price estimate on this little scooter, BTW?
cooter, two things up front would sway me away from this car.
1) A price over $30,000(remember, there's an Obama $7,500 rebate that will be coming back to purchasers in the U.S.)
2) A sadly lacking Warranty
Of these two dissuadants, the lacking Warranty is the one most likely to dissuade, IMHO, of course.
It remains a lovely little car for aggressively pursuing for us. It is early on, I wholeheartedly agree on that.
Another thing not yet laid out for our reading pleasure is U.S. dealer network for the car. And is that ever an important issue to still get hammered out. That can make or break their success in the U.S. for them. Also, no pricing or Warranty info. yet, just to reiterate.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Support for bailing out the Big 3 in the Senate is very marginal, even among Democrats. Most thinking people see this as prolonging the end of the dinosaur era in Detroit. Close the doors and sell all the assets to keep the retirees going a few more years. If the worst case 3 million jobs lost comes true, it will still be less of a recession than Carter caused in the late 1970s. It will give Obama a chance to prove his worth as a leader.
Obama: Auto industry collapse would be 'a disaster (CNN)
"My hope is that over the course of the next week, between the White House and Congress, the discussions are shaped around providing assistance but making sure that that assistance is conditioned on labor, management, suppliers, lenders, all of the stakeholders coming together with a plan -- what does a sustainable U.S. auto industry look like?
ALL parties need to get together and come up with a plan. It is not enough that a few guys on top take a big salary cut. That will not save GM in the long run. They HAVE to become competitive with ALL auto companies in the World. We are in a global market place. GM is still in the dark ages of being the only choice, take it or leave it. All those involved need to wake up and smell the coffee. Or look for a different line of work. Want some fries with that?
For the past three weeks, U.S. continuing jobless claims averaged 3.7 million, the highest figures since June 2003.
In the meantime, let the chips fall where they may. Either way, jobs need to go. Any other plan that does not face this reality is a waste and prolong this necessary evil.
Pay now or later. The industry will be downsized Gov't bailout or not.
Funny how the management of the car companies and the all-knowing pundits say bankruptcy is sheer disaster and no one will buy their cars in Ch. 11. Well, wake up and smell the COFFEE! No one is going to buy these cars because of all the press regarding a bailout either. Let's see what the Big 3 sell in November.
No sale, cut expenses and the products that do not sell. I never learned: no sale, ask for government help? What the heck are we turning into? The line is forming behind closed doors as we speak!
I will apply for a Government Grant to start an auto company as long as I get part of the T.A.R.P. to support failure. It's a Win/Win. No risk! Guess who's assets I will buy for pennies/dollar??
Regards,
OW