That goes to show there are huge regional differences. I have yet to see one Veracruz on the road, but these roads are littered with RXs. Let me turn your comment around by saying, maybe the consumers in these parts can afford more and appreciate the finer qualities of the RX. To say it another way, they believe they paid more and got more for their money.
In Upstate S.C., the roads are littered with Lexus' and there are six Lexus delarers in Atlanta. Lot of people buy it becuase they want a Lexus and the status that goes with it. Also, they assume they are getting more quality. Can say the same for people who buy Cadillacs and Lincolns, but are they really? Considered Lexus myself, but I'm too cheap to pay a $12,000 premium for a badge. True, Lexus does ride a little better and has a higher re-sale value,but I don't buy cars to re-sell them and the initial savings negates that anyway. If I remember the MT article, it summarized by saying people drawn to Lexus will not get a Vera Cruz, regardless of its quality or cost savings. BTW, MT and all other magazines are subsidized by ALL the manufacturers, Toyota included. Maybe we should change topic to: Why there isn't room in the luxury market for Hyundai. What was it, 20 years ago that Lexus (Toyota), Acura (Honda) and Infiniti (Nissan) were not in the Luxury marker either?
Well thats pretty presumptuous to claim that don't you think?
The area I speak of is a very affluent area, where an RX's price isn't an issue by far. I mean I can afford an RX if I felt the need to buy one, but I didn't.
Perhaps they are badge whores who care how others percieve them and the most important thing in life is how their neighbors & peers view them....That was presumption on my part.
I have more respect for people who don't follow the above methodology.
"Considered Lexus myself, but I'm too cheap to pay a $12,000 premium for a badge."
That's a bit condenscending don't you think? Lexus will sell about 100K of these this year, precisely because of the badge. You may be too cheap to buy a Lexus, but others perceive a difference. I can't explain why else they do so well in this segment. You're point of view is "badge hounds" whatever that is. My point of view is being particular.
"Well thats pretty presumptuous to claim that don't you think?"
I live an extremely affluent area as well. This whole thread of the conversation is presumptous and off-topic. The attempt to say Hyundai is an RX with a different badge doesn't fly. And people are shallow because the buy the Lexus and not the Hyundai is ridiculous at best.
Talking about "the badge" is extremely condescending because it ignores why people keep going back because *you* don't understand it.
If Hyundai wants to edge Lexus, they first have to understand why the "badge hounds", keep going back for more. Even if someone goes for so-called status, Hyundai had better understand that.
According to you some who buys an Armani suit, does it for status andis a badge hound, but the person who buys a Mens Warehouse suit is your type person. :surprise Your posts clarify why you can't believe someone would doubt the Veracruz is a better RX for $10K less. To each their own.
* The Genesis is dynamically and feature-wise equivalent, if not superior to, at least some luxury RWD sedans. * Hyundai allows only dealers with exemplary customer service records and top-notch facilities to sell the Genesis. * Hyundai keeps its long-term warranty (which is already superior to the warranties offered by several luxury brands) for the Genesis, and perhaps adds some other perks such as free service loaners.
Will that make Hyundai a bona-fide new entry in the luxury car market?
scbob didn't comment on anyone else's cheapness, just his own. So why was his comment condescending? He was only calling himself "cheap." As you've told us many times, it's your money to spend and your decision. If someone else is "too cheap" to pay a $12,000 premium for another brand, isn't he entitled to his opinion and decision just as you are?
If both suits were the same material, style, color and everything then what would be the difference? No suit has a badge on the outside as far as I can tell.
I don't believe I said the VC was an RX, just very very competitive as far as features, specs & road manners.
Well lets see how the current events surrounding Toyota play out as far as brand loyalists. This would be an indication of our theories as far as the badge goes.
Genesis has to be a luxury vehicle. Again, this is up for debate if this is the be-all-and-end-all or a better mousetrap.
Luxury manufacturers don't share space.
I believe the warranty is necessary to sell the product, but to some it's a selling point.
There are variations of the free loaner program. Luxury manufacturers try to give the same car you dropped off for service. (might not work with high-end cars)
There needs to be a line-up of "luxury" vehicles, not "near luxury" vehicles.
You see, there's the rub. Hyundai is I think trying to raise their brand image by introducing a high-end car. But it will be their ONLY luxury vehicle in the U.S., for awhile at least. So they should start a whole new chain of dealerships with one model? They could move the Veracruz over to the new luxury dealerships, i.e. pull something from Toyota's or Honda's playbook and take a current model and gussie it up some, and rename it. So that could be two models. Is that enough to compete against Acura, Lexus, Infiniti etc. with their many models? I don't think so. That's why I think Hyundai is better off using the Genesis to raise the perception of the Hyundai brand, instead of launching an all-new brand and dealer network--which would be extremely expensive.
You have this Genesis as the flagship, and you have that high-powered, rumored to compete with G37, RWD Tiburon replacement.
It's not exactly a Tiburon replacement but rather a brand new model, esepcially considering another FWD coupe will slot in as the Tiburon replacement, with heavy cues from the Veolster concept. The BK will move upmarket both in size, price and pretty much everything else, you could say it's the coupe version of the BH, since it will be sharing the same platform. Turbo-4 and direct injection V6 are expected to be under the hood.
Counterexamples: Lincoln (with Mercury). Cadillac (with other GM brands, depending on dealership). Mercedes (e.g. with Nissan in my town). Volvo (e.g. with Nissan). Lexus (with Toyota, e.g. Don Valley North). Infiniti (e.g. Victoria Infiniti Nissan). There's probably others, but maybe that's enough to show that it's possible for a luxury brand to "share space" with a non-luxury brand to sell and service cars. So... why not Hyundai?
I believe the warranty is necessary to sell the product, but to some it's a selling point.
In the luxury market, people seem to expect a longer warranty than with non-luxury brands, so the luxury brand's warranty is longer than the standard brand's (examples: Honda and Acura, Toyota and Lexus,...). Hyundai has an advantage here in that they already offer a warranty that is very competitive if not better than what most luxury brands offer.
Not saying there aren't dealerships with multiple manufacturers, but they do not share space except for the non-luxury brands.
So you now are looking for examples of two luxury brands sharing space? :confuse: That's not what you were talking about before. And why is it pertinent? The fact is, luxury brands share dealership space with non-luxury brands. Your town is not the only place on earth where cars are sold. It's been done before, it's being done, and it means that it's a possibility for Hyundai to successfully sell and service its luxury models from space used for also selling non-luxury vehicles.
The title of this discussion topic specifies the "Luxury Market", which is much more than just Lexus.
It seems like most of this discussion involves Lexus. Is it because an overrated car rag decided to rate the VC above the RX?
Other than the IS350/IS-F and maybe the LS, the Lexus line of automobiles doesn't bring much anything new or exciting to the drawing table.
I admit they know how to treat their customers well. They have a good reputation for reliability. And they definitely know how to market their cars.
However, let's not blindly buy into the "Lexus costs $10K-$12K more" argument. I know from experience Lexus also discounts their better-selling automobiles, especially the ES and RX. Equip the Veracruz with leather and the same basic items common to the RX, and chances are you won't need to spend $10K more for the RX with the same features. Sure, the VC is a great value with cloth seats, but the minimum entry fee for leather seats is the mid-level trim with a $3350 option package. The "Lexus costs $10K more" argument loses more steam when compared to other Japanese competition.
Back to my original point: With all this discussion regarding the RX, why are there no discussions regarding the MDX? Is the "VC-MDX comparo" planned for next year's Motor Trend?
I'm comparing apples to apples when I look at pricing. We considered a 2007 VC for my wife. Unfortunately (for my bank account), my wife really wanted leather seats. The price of admission for leather upholstery in the VC results in some loss in VC's "value" argument. For us, it meant too many additional options added with the leather, which we didn't desire for this purchase.
I'm not arguing against the value of the VC, in general. I think the value is there if you are happy with the base trim, or if you want all the bells and whistles of a fully-loaded one.
I admit that I'm late to this party, but what does whether or not two luxury brands share space have to do with whether Hyundai can fit into the luxury market? Hyundai doesn't even have one brand, yet, so why are we worrying about two sharing space??
And I'm pretty sure that whatever it is that Sony does/did or did not do, doesn't really have anything to do with the topic either. :confuse:
Why do I get the feeling that some of you are just arguing with each other because you like to argue, not because you are trying to advance the subject. Hmm...
Although I might agree with you regarding the original RX, there might be some die-hard Benz fans who argue the ML320 was first to the party.
But I think you might be missing the point! My question was: Why is 99% of the luxury comparison in this topic emphasizing Lexus?? From your response, you seem to indicate it is because Lexus "reinvented" the CUV, and because Lexus has little to prove.
Ok.
The topic at hand involves Hyundai and the "Luxury Market".
I would argue the Acura Legend was the first Japanese car to enter as a luxury/upscale brand. Maybe Honda/Acura should be the model upon which Hyundai models itself?
Maybe Hyundai shouldn't model its luxury-vehicle effort after Lexus or Acura... or Infiniti for that matter.
That may sound ridiculous, but here's my rationale. Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti have already executed on their strategies successfully. They are all entrenched, with a lot of brand equity behind them. Suppose Hyundai tries to mimic them. What will buyers tend to choose: a well-known brand like Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti, or an unknown quantity in the luxury market, Hyundai?
Maybe instead Hyundai should try something different. I'm not quite sure what that is, but I gave one idea earlier (sell Genesis only through the top-notch Hyundai dealers, maybe augment the warranty with some special perks just for Genesis buyers, etc.).
There's a fascinating, classic book on this subject if you want to learn more about why a company might fail if it tries to mimic the marketing strategy of its major competitor(s): Crossing the Chasm.
being ready for prime time issue is sound as a pound, backy. I also feel that for someone like myself, who has bounded from Hyundai/Kia to Mitsubishi, for a car life's length anyway(a return to Hyundai/Kia is very possible in the future), this is a totally stress-free exercise to be watching from afar, though watching with much interest.
I do think that Hyundai is going about this luxury-entry deal at a good angle, one that will enable them to guage the buying public's reaction to the new luxury entry while not revamping their entire U.S. showroom and overall approach to car-selling.
I think that the Genesis RWD 4-door will sell itself, look how it has interested someone like rockylee, who is a staunch GM fan, for the luxury Cadillac models for instance. What was that you were a fan of for a while, too, rocky? An Acura? Anyhow, like rock says, this new Hyundai Genesis will offer so many gadgets as well as sound-as-a-pound drivetrain backed by a vibrant Long-Haul Warranty, that it already is attracting beaucoup interest in the automotive world. Two luxury or near-luxury models is only a start for Hyundai. Their progress is nothing short of phenomenal.
I think that the Genesis RWD 4-door will sell itself...
It may be that good. But we've seen that just having good cars isn't enough for Hyundai. More people have to get over their outdated view of the brand. If the Genesis debuts to a lot of critical acclaim, that will help. Just from looks alone it should raise some eyebrows about what Hyundai can offer.
"(sell Genesis only through the top-notch Hyundai dealers, maybe augment the warranty with some special perks just for Genesis buyers, etc.)"
Backy,
Thats not a bad concept. Something to offer buyers a premium perk. I think it was Louis mentioned a guaranteed loaner car when many of the luxury cars go in for service. What about included routine service for entire life of powertrain warranty? No charge navi data updates for life of warranty etc..
Has anyone heard or seen anything in regard to a new Hyundai logo? I recently read something about this but am unclear if this will be applied worldwide/line wide.
your idea may be a very good one for Hyundai. Service loaners for Genesis that are other Hyundai Genesis cars, routine maintenance on the powertrain for life, etc. I think all of these are great ideas.
A little extra buyers "perk" is a great idea. More and more Americans are discovering the brand all of the time but as backy states more people are out there that still don't "trust" the brand. It's a perception thing that is getting better but still needs improvement.
Not everyone reads CR, JD Power, Motortrend, Car and Driver and other publications and periodicals that clearly have discovered and reported on the vast improvements in the Hyundai brand in the 2000's. That's when it's happened.
About Sept. of 2001 was when we traded our '99 Kia Sephia for our '01 Kia Sportage 4X4. The Long-Haul Warranty was included in the Sportage 4X4 deal but not the Sephia. Even in humble little Kia I could see great potential for their future and being bought by Hyundai has provided more security for Kia Motors and increased sales and another brand to offer over strictly Hyundai offerings for Hyundai, too. The sporty Korean brand is one way of describing Kia.
A Kia motorcar that has given buyers a luxury automobile for less money has been the Kia Amanti. Removing decals and emblems is not a necessary thing for me but people have done this with their Hyundai/Kia vehicles and fooled many, many people out there who couldn't believe that the vehicle they just rode in was a South Korean offering.
An emblem that looks totally unlike any other in the automotive world. That's a start. The more Hyundai can do to eliminate thoughts like, "They copied X from [name the brand--Honda, Toyota etc.]", the better.
Hyundai has a huge uphill battle. IMO, there is a perception, and rightfully so, Japanese cars are "better". While there are those who disagree, all one has to do is look at sales numbers.
It took 15 years for the Japanese upscale divisions to gain traction and take customers from the Americans and Germans. While the Americans and Germans are now taking customers back, if history is any lesson Hyundai has 15 years to go after it proves itself, before gaining traction. Luxury as defined by Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, Audi, etc is a world away and Hyundai obviously isn't stepping into that anytime soon, again imo.
I understand it's an opinion, and I agree with you somewhat. IMO, Hyundai is a value product product compared to some of the Japanese offerings, not superior. People do buy on value, I know I do.
I don't know the perception "America" has on Hyundai, if you look at their sales numbers vs the competition you can gain some idea.
I know there those staunch supports who flatly disagree with me, but this is the obstacle Hyundai has overcome in America. If it weren't their sales numbers would be different.
Hyundai can use history to its advantage. When Honda, Toyota, and Nissan launched their luxury brands, they were the first Asian car companies to do so. It took awhile for U.S. luxury car buyers to warm up to the idea that an Asian car company could offer a luxury car as good as that from Detroit or Germany. That's been done now. All Hyundai has to do is prove that its luxury offerings are comparable to those of the Japanese car companies. They've already shown their vehicles are comparable to the Japanese non-luxury brands. So I don't think it will take 15 years to "prove itself" in the luxury space. I think 5 years is more like it, depending on how good the Genesis and whatever follows it are and how well Hyundai strokes the luxury car buyers.
There will be some car buyers, and I put you in that category based on your many posts on this subject, who will never accept Hyundai as a luxury brand or even on a par with the non-luxury Japanese brands. But there are many other buyers out there for Hyundai to go after.
P.S. I disagree that, for example, Lexus hadn't gained traction and wasn't taking customers from Americans and Germans before 2005. I think it happened well before that. With Acura and Infiniti also.
An emblem that looks totally unlike any other in the automotive world. That's a start. The more Hyundai can do to eliminate thoughts like, "They copied X from [name the brand--Honda, Toyota etc.]", the better
Hyundai has way too much pride and tradition to copy from anyone. Unfortuantely, the letter H is common, and if it's disguised too much, it may not look like an "H" any more. The Hyundai emblem represents 2 people shaking hands, and is very creative and meaningful. Maybe they could shrink the styalized H and put it inside of a larger, more unique emblem. Even better, they should work hard and make their badge more recognizable than Honda's.
If you have the time and inclination, you can go into the Hyundai buying and owners discussions right here in Town Hall and see what shoppers and owners (more than 5) are saying about why they bought a Hyundai, what they looked at before they bought a Hyundai, and what they think of their cars. It will give you some idea that Hyundai buyers are comparing Hyundai to the Japanese brands, in some cases (Azera, Veracruz) the luxury brands, and they are choosing Hyundai.
Hyundai has way too much pride and tradition to copy from anyone.
Hyundai admits that they copy all the time from other brands. For example, they admit they copied exterior cues for the Sonata from Audi. They also routinely disassemble competitor's cars and reverse-engineer features. This is common in the automotive world, so it's not just Hyundai.
But the new logo is very creative, with multiple images (shaking hands, sleek car shape).
I know there those staunch supports who flatly disagree with me, but this is the obstacle Hyundai has overcome in America. If it weren't their sales numbers would be different.
I don't disagree with you at all on this point. It's obvious that Hyundai's brand is not as trusted as the top Japanese brands. However, I think Hyundai is about to break through. There is a "critical mass" point. I don't know exactly what that point is, but I think it's roughly when everyone either owns a Hyundai or knows someone who does, and are willing to go and test drive one. When the butts get in the seats, I think sales will start snowballing. That, of course depends on the economy, and Hyundai's future pricing.
I think that drivers of Hyundai's current lineup would be perfectly happy to step up to a new luxury offering. That's how Toyota pulled it off, by getting people to accept the brand. People that have never driven a Hyundai, well, they probably wouldn't consider a Hyundai luxury car. At least not initially.
Comments
Considered Lexus myself, but I'm too cheap to pay a $12,000 premium for a badge. True, Lexus does ride a little better and has a higher re-sale value,but I don't buy cars to re-sell them and the initial savings negates that anyway.
If I remember the MT article, it summarized by saying people drawn to Lexus will not get a Vera Cruz, regardless of its quality or cost savings.
BTW, MT and all other magazines are subsidized by ALL the manufacturers, Toyota included.
Maybe we should change topic to: Why there isn't room in the luxury market for Hyundai. What was it, 20 years ago that Lexus (Toyota), Acura (Honda) and Infiniti (Nissan) were not in the Luxury marker either?
The area I speak of is a very affluent area, where an RX's price isn't an issue by far. I mean I can afford an RX if I felt the need to buy one, but I didn't.
Perhaps they are badge whores who care how others percieve them and the most important thing in life is how their neighbors & peers view them....That was presumption on my part.
I have more respect for people who don't follow the above methodology.
That's a bit condenscending don't you think? Lexus will sell about 100K of these this year, precisely because of the badge. You may be too cheap to buy a Lexus, but others perceive a difference. I can't explain why else they do so well in this segment. You're point of view is "badge hounds" whatever that is. My point of view is being particular.
I live an extremely affluent area as well. This whole thread of the conversation is presumptous and off-topic. The attempt to say Hyundai is an RX with a different badge doesn't fly. And people are shallow because the buy the Lexus and not the Hyundai is ridiculous at best.
Talking about "the badge" is extremely condescending because it ignores why people keep going back because *you* don't understand it.
If Hyundai wants to edge Lexus, they first have to understand why the "badge hounds", keep going back for more. Even if someone goes for so-called status, Hyundai had better understand that.
According to you some who buys an Armani suit, does it for status andis a badge hound, but the person who buys a Mens Warehouse suit is your type person. :surprise Your posts clarify why you can't believe someone would doubt the Veracruz is a better RX for $10K less. To each their own.
So if the Genesis is Hyundai's Sega, then the new Accord and Camrys must be the SUPER NINTENDO, which made Sega the obsolete company it is today.
* The Genesis is dynamically and feature-wise equivalent, if not superior to, at least some luxury RWD sedans.
* Hyundai allows only dealers with exemplary customer service records and top-notch facilities to sell the Genesis.
* Hyundai keeps its long-term warranty (which is already superior to the warranties offered by several luxury brands) for the Genesis, and perhaps adds some other perks such as free service loaners.
Will that make Hyundai a bona-fide new entry in the luxury car market?
I don't believe I said the VC was an RX, just very very competitive as far as features, specs & road manners.
Well lets see how the current events surrounding Toyota play out as far as brand loyalists. This would be an indication of our theories as far as the badge goes.
Luxury manufacturers don't share space.
I believe the warranty is necessary to sell the product, but to some it's a selling point.
There are variations of the free loaner program. Luxury manufacturers try to give the same car you dropped off for service. (might not work with high-end cars)
There needs to be a line-up of "luxury" vehicles, not "near luxury" vehicles.
Yes, that is the successful blueprint.
You have this Genesis as the flagship, and you have that high-powered, rumored to compete with G37, RWD Tiburon replacement.
That's two. And you can phase in a spin-off of the legendary Veracruz as the 3rd side of the Triangle.
Hell, or just bring the Great One with you? Bolster your new brand with a stick of pure Dynamite!
Of course, this makes too much sense, and will never be done by Hyundai, but they are great enough to make Plan B work too...
DrFill
Do you know why Sony was dethroned?
Arrogance and over price.
Are you a Toyota or Lexus salesperson? :confuse:
:confuse:
It's not exactly a Tiburon replacement but rather a brand new model, esepcially considering another FWD coupe will slot in as the Tiburon replacement, with heavy cues from the Veolster concept. The BK will move upmarket both in size, price and pretty much everything else, you could say it's the coupe version of the BH, since it will be sharing the same platform. Turbo-4 and direct injection V6 are expected to be under the hood.
Counterexamples: Lincoln (with Mercury). Cadillac (with other GM brands, depending on dealership). Mercedes (e.g. with Nissan in my town). Volvo (e.g. with Nissan). Lexus (with Toyota, e.g. Don Valley North). Infiniti (e.g. Victoria Infiniti Nissan). There's probably others, but maybe that's enough to show that it's possible for a luxury brand to "share space" with a non-luxury brand to sell and service cars. So... why not Hyundai?
I believe the warranty is necessary to sell the product, but to some it's a selling point.
In the luxury market, people seem to expect a longer warranty than with non-luxury brands, so the luxury brand's warranty is longer than the standard brand's (examples: Honda and Acura, Toyota and Lexus,...). Hyundai has an advantage here in that they already offer a warranty that is very competitive if not better than what most luxury brands offer.
Cadillac (with other GM brands) you are right gm brands do share space.
Mercedes (e.g.) with Nissan in my town nowhere around here
Lexus (with Toyota) not around here
Not saying there aren't dealerships with multiple manufacturers, but they do not share space except for the non-luxury brands.
Luxury brands also share space - fyi
So you now are looking for examples of two luxury brands sharing space? :confuse: That's not what you were talking about before. And why is it pertinent? The fact is, luxury brands share dealership space with non-luxury brands. Your town is not the only place on earth where cars are sold.
It seems like most of this discussion involves Lexus. Is it because an overrated car rag decided to rate the VC above the RX?
Other than the IS350/IS-F and maybe the LS, the Lexus line of automobiles doesn't bring much anything new or exciting to the drawing table.
I admit they know how to treat their customers well. They have a good reputation for reliability. And they definitely know how to market their cars.
However, let's not blindly buy into the "Lexus costs $10K-$12K more" argument. I know from experience Lexus also discounts their better-selling automobiles, especially the ES and RX. Equip the Veracruz with leather and the same basic items common to the RX, and chances are you won't need to spend $10K more for the RX with the same features. Sure, the VC is a great value with cloth seats, but the minimum entry fee for leather seats is the mid-level trim with a $3350 option package. The "Lexus costs $10K more" argument loses more steam when compared to other Japanese competition.
Back to my original point: With all this discussion regarding the RX, why are there no discussions regarding the MDX? Is the "VC-MDX comparo" planned for next year's Motor Trend?
I'm comparing apples to apples when I look at pricing. We considered a 2007 VC for my wife. Unfortunately (for my bank account), my wife really wanted leather seats. The price of admission for leather upholstery in the VC results in some loss in VC's "value" argument. For us, it meant too many additional options added with the leather, which we didn't desire for this purchase.
I'm not arguing against the value of the VC, in general. I think the value is there if you are happy with the base trim, or if you want all the bells and whistles of a fully-loaded one.
they still make the very best TV's and monitors.
Maybe caddy and lincoln are pseudo-luxury and you've just proved my point luxury brands don't share space. :confuse
VHS vs Beta?? :confuse:
And I'm pretty sure that whatever it is that Sony does/did or did not do, doesn't really have anything to do with the topic either. :confuse:
Why do I get the feeling that some of you are just arguing with each other because you like to argue, not because you are trying to advance the subject. Hmm...
they still make the very best TV's and monitors.
I think my Hyundai monitor is better than Sony.
But I think you might be missing the point! My question was: Why is 99% of the luxury comparison in this topic emphasizing Lexus?? From your response, you seem to indicate it is because Lexus "reinvented" the CUV, and because Lexus has little to prove.
Ok.
The topic at hand involves Hyundai and the "Luxury Market".
I would argue the Acura Legend was the first Japanese car to enter as a luxury/upscale brand. Maybe Honda/Acura should be the model upon which Hyundai models itself?
That may sound ridiculous, but here's my rationale. Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti have already executed on their strategies successfully. They are all entrenched, with a lot of brand equity behind them. Suppose Hyundai tries to mimic them. What will buyers tend to choose: a well-known brand like Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti, or an unknown quantity in the luxury market, Hyundai?
Maybe instead Hyundai should try something different. I'm not quite sure what that is, but I gave one idea earlier (sell Genesis only through the top-notch Hyundai dealers, maybe augment the warranty with some special perks just for Genesis buyers, etc.).
There's a fascinating, classic book on this subject if you want to learn more about why a company might fail if it tries to mimic the marketing strategy of its major competitor(s): Crossing the Chasm.
I do think that Hyundai is going about this luxury-entry deal at a good angle, one that will enable them to guage the buying public's reaction to the new luxury entry while not revamping their entire U.S. showroom and overall approach to car-selling.
I think that the Genesis RWD 4-door will sell itself, look how it has interested someone like rockylee, who is a staunch GM fan, for the luxury Cadillac models for instance.
What was that you were a fan of for a while, too, rocky? An Acura? Anyhow, like rock says, this new Hyundai Genesis will offer so many gadgets as well as sound-as-a-pound drivetrain backed by a vibrant Long-Haul Warranty, that it already is attracting beaucoup interest in the automotive world. Two luxury or near-luxury models is only a start for Hyundai. Their progress is nothing short of phenomenal.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Didn't you forget something at the end of the sentence?
It may be that good. But we've seen that just having good cars isn't enough for Hyundai. More people have to get over their outdated view of the brand. If the Genesis debuts to a lot of critical acclaim, that will help. Just from looks alone it should raise some eyebrows about what Hyundai can offer.
Backy,
Thats not a bad concept. Something to offer buyers a premium perk. I think it was Louis mentioned a guaranteed loaner car when many of the luxury cars go in for service. What about included routine service for entire life of powertrain warranty? No charge navi data updates for life of warranty etc..
Has anyone heard or seen anything in regard to a new Hyundai logo? I recently read something about this but am unclear if this will be applied worldwide/line wide.
Craig
MIG #2
A little extra buyers "perk" is a great idea. More and more Americans are discovering the brand all of the time but as backy states more people are out there that still don't "trust" the brand. It's a perception thing that is getting better but still needs improvement.
Not everyone reads CR, JD Power, Motortrend, Car and Driver and other publications and periodicals that clearly have discovered and reported on the vast improvements in the Hyundai brand in the 2000's. That's when it's happened.
About Sept. of 2001 was when we traded our '99 Kia Sephia for our '01 Kia Sportage 4X4. The Long-Haul Warranty was included in the Sportage 4X4 deal but not the Sephia. Even in humble little Kia I could see great potential for their future and being bought by Hyundai has provided more security for Kia Motors and increased sales and another brand to offer over strictly Hyundai offerings for Hyundai, too. The sporty Korean brand is one way of describing Kia.
A Kia motorcar that has given buyers a luxury automobile for less money has been the Kia Amanti. Removing decals and emblems is not a necessary thing for me but people have done this with their Hyundai/Kia vehicles and fooled many, many people out there who couldn't believe that the vehicle they just rode in was a South Korean offering.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Agreed.
And just because any manufacturer makes a good product doesn't mean the public will embrace it when its in a sea of other good products.
The auto business is very crowded.
-Rocky
It took 15 years for the Japanese upscale divisions to gain traction and take customers from the Americans and Germans. While the Americans and Germans are now taking customers back, if history is any lesson Hyundai has 15 years to go after it proves itself, before gaining traction. Luxury as defined by Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, Audi, etc is a world away and Hyundai obviously isn't stepping into that anytime soon, again imo.
I don't know the perception "America" has on Hyundai, if you look at their sales numbers vs the competition you can gain some idea.
I know there those staunch supports who flatly disagree with me, but this is the obstacle Hyundai has overcome in America. If it weren't their sales numbers would be different.
Hyundai can use history to its advantage. When Honda, Toyota, and Nissan launched their luxury brands, they were the first Asian car companies to do so. It took awhile for U.S. luxury car buyers to warm up to the idea that an Asian car company could offer a luxury car as good as that from Detroit or Germany. That's been done now. All Hyundai has to do is prove that its luxury offerings are comparable to those of the Japanese car companies. They've already shown their vehicles are comparable to the Japanese non-luxury brands. So I don't think it will take 15 years to "prove itself" in the luxury space. I think 5 years is more like it, depending on how good the Genesis and whatever follows it are and how well Hyundai strokes the luxury car buyers.
There will be some car buyers, and I put you in that category based on your many posts on this subject, who will never accept Hyundai as a luxury brand or even on a par with the non-luxury Japanese brands. But there are many other buyers out there for Hyundai to go after.
P.S. I disagree that, for example, Lexus hadn't gained traction and wasn't taking customers from Americans and Germans before 2005. I think it happened well before that. With Acura and Infiniti also.
That is the point, there are 5 of us discussing this issue in this forum. I don't know how "America" feels. Maybe we should poll America?
Hyundai has way too much pride and tradition to copy from anyone. Unfortuantely, the letter H is common, and if it's disguised too much, it may not look like an "H" any more. The Hyundai emblem represents 2 people shaking hands, and is very creative and meaningful. Maybe they could shrink the styalized H and put it inside of a larger, more unique emblem. Even better, they should work hard and make their badge more recognizable than Honda's.
Hyundai admits that they copy all the time from other brands. For example, they admit they copied exterior cues for the Sonata from Audi. They also routinely disassemble competitor's cars and reverse-engineer features. This is common in the automotive world, so it's not just Hyundai.
But the new logo is very creative, with multiple images (shaking hands, sleek car shape).
I don't disagree with you at all on this point. It's obvious that Hyundai's brand is not as trusted as the top Japanese brands. However, I think Hyundai is about to break through. There is a "critical mass" point. I don't know exactly what that point is, but I think it's roughly when everyone either owns a Hyundai or knows someone who does, and are willing to go and test drive one. When the butts get in the seats, I think sales will start snowballing. That, of course depends on the economy, and Hyundai's future pricing.
I think that drivers of Hyundai's current lineup would be perfectly happy to step up to a new luxury offering. That's how Toyota pulled it off, by getting people to accept the brand. People that have never driven a Hyundai, well, they probably wouldn't consider a Hyundai luxury car. At least not initially.
I meant the emblem.
I know Hyudai and everyone else dissect the competition and incorporate the best designs into their own cars. I'm glad they do. It's the American way.
You're saying that Hyundai has a new badge??? How did I miess that!?!?