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It is good that Hyundai dealers now are in the same level as other mainstream brands such as Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy and etc. However, do any of you seriously think that in the future Hyundai as a brand will be compete in the same level as MB, BMW and Lexus? Which one is more likely to happen in 20 years let's say:
1. Hyundai has overtaken Lexus as the number one selling luxury brand in the US.
or
2. __________(insert a Hyundai luxury brand name here, I'd just call it Genesis) has overtaken Lexus as the number one selling luxury brand in the US.
Although both scenarios probably won't happen but if I am a betting man I'll bet on scenario 2.
Why do you think it's necessary for Hyundai to overtake Lexus as the #1 selling luxury brand to be successful in the luxury market?
These are pretty interesting:
That we have intolerant robots?
We have more than 250 welding robots, and additional robots that check the work of those welding robots. Complex optical sensors at these check stations measure tolerances, ensuring tight welds and minimal gaps between panels.
Our cars take a primer and electricity bath?
We roll our car bodies through a paint primer bath 11 times. While it’s electrically charged. The bath and body have opposite charges, so that the bath is drawn to the body like a magnet, ensuring thorough coverage in all the little nooks and crannies, and ensuring a new level of corrosion protection.
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/abouthyundai/ourcompany/know.aspx
The RX is an excellent CUV, and so is the Veracruz. The differences between the two vehicles are marginal, at best. Of course, I can go through the pluses and minuses for both but overall, The VC and the RX compares favorably against each other.
I have voiced my opinion strongly that it's NOT impossible for Hyundai to get a piece of the luxury market but IMO the wise approach is to invest in a third brand and independent dealer network. I personally think Hyundai is taking shortcuts and it's such a waste to have Genesis carries a Hyundai badge. I see this car as Hyundai's LS400 and it deserves a better treatment.
Backy raises a good point above. I don't think Hyundai needs to reach #1 in the luxury market down the road to be successful. Hardly, actually. The road is going to be tough one but I believe Hyundai has taken the first step in the right direction.
What? Poor sales and customer service at a Hyundai dealer? I thought that was impossible according to the Hyundai club members here.
After riding in a Santa Fe all day yesterday I found it no marvel of engineering prowess.
For the most part, the poor sales had nothing to do with the dealers themselves, well, unless your dealer was underperforming. Most dealers I've talked have had excellent years, despite the downward trend ACROSS the auto industry. At my local dealer, among other reasons, the demand actually exceeded the supply, believe it or not, especially on some models.
Aside from the overall downward trend across the auto industry, Hyundai had been hit hard with the number of strikes over the years, the strengthen of the Won currency (for a few years now) certainly hasn't helped, plus the unfortunate scandal and other factors have greatly reduced production.
I can't vouch for ALL Hyundai dealers, but I have not heard customer service being a major issue at Hyundai dealers. It is entirely possible, of course, your local dealer has poor customer service, which is something need to be addressed, then again, it's probably getting the ax for that reason
I had a Santa Fe (3.3 SE) for a week or so. To sum it up, it wasn't a track handling sports car (perhaps that was your engineering prowess reference) but just a solid solid product with a fantastic look inside and out.
Read the article backy linked. Apparently Hyundai has a different opinion than you about the many underperforming dealers. Imagine that.
These dealers caused the underperformance themselves. Like Hyundai (and many other automakers would do), get better or move on. Hyundai can't hold the hands at every step of the way.
Oh - OK.
It appears nobody can tell you anything, which is what I expected since its clear you know everything about Hyundai.
Regardless, if the underperformance wasn't caused by the dealers, then how would you explain the poor customer service at these 50 dealerships?
* "Quality sucks--they need to improve it!" So they did, big time, comparable to that of Honda and Toyota per sources like CR and JD Power. Now it's, "They're not as good as Lexus yet!"
* "They sell too many cars to fleets!" So they cut fleet sales. Now it's, "Sales are flat!"
* "They need to cut incentives and raise prices to improve resale values!" So they did that. Now it's, "Sales are flat!"
* "They need to increase sales!" So they increased sales five-fold in nine years. Now it's, "They don't sell 2 million vehicles a year in the U.S. like Toyota does!"
* "They need to beef up the brand!" So Hyundai added two near-luxury models and is adding a luxury model to do that. Now it's, "How dare Hyundai try to compete with luxury brands!"
* "They need to improve their dealer network if they are going to sell luxury cars!" So they are doing that, taking a hard line against dealers who don't perform up to snuff in customer service. Now it's, "Oh look, Hyundai admits not all its dealers are great!"
No matter what Hyundai has done or will do in the future, it will not be enough for those who still think of Hyundai as the company that launched the Excel.
Clearly my dealer is more focused on volume and less on quality. I agree this needs to change if they expect to lure luxury buyers. I have no doubt the products will be competitive but will Hyundai insure the dealer experience will match the cars?
I have been reading this forum for several days and many have made some valid points and caused me to really consider what would "I" do if I was making these decisions.
I am confident the Genesis is going to be one impressive vehicle. Distribution through all existing Hyundai dealers is not exclusive enough. Creating a new car brand with dedicated dealer stores is very expensive.
Here's what I'd do:
Select only the top tier dealers that offer service excellence. Offer the Genesis through these dealers but not under the Hyundai brand......Call this new brand "Genesis". Just like ford only sells SVT vehicles through select dealers Hyundai does the same. Eventually as the brand Genesis grows legs, then start opening the dedicated stores when additional luxury models are offered.
As many have said before....Buyers of this new Genesis brand get extraordinary service such as car pickup at your location where a like-car loaner is left and when your car is completed it is dropped off to you.
Craig
I hope, if this is what HMA does, that my nearby dealer is one that gets Genesis.
It appears nobody can tell you anything, which is what I expected since its clear you know everything about Hyundai."
What's with the attitude? Joe's comment was dead-on. The underperforming dealers are definitely responsible for their own underperformance. How can you argue that? For right now, Hyundai is going after the bottom 50 and trying to invoke positive change. That's a positive move. Joe's further observation is that the dealer network as a whole does not appear to suck. That may or not be true but there's absolutely nothing in the article posted by Backy to indicate otherwise. Many here (including myself) have had excellent experiences with our respective Hyundai dealers. Lexus dealers aren't the only decent dealers out there!
To those expecting Hyundai to create a new brand for the Genesis, forget it. It ain't gonna happen, nor does it need to IMO. What they should do, however, is what VW did with the Phaeton, Audi with the RS6, and other companies that introduced new high-end models. That is, they should require that sales and service departments be trained and certified in everything that is Genesis before a dealer is allowed to carry the car. They could go a step further and allow only those dealers that meet other specific and strict customer satisfaction standards to sell Genesis. In other words, a dealer would have to earn the right to sell and service the car.
As long as the product is excellent, making sure from the point vehicle comes off the line to the customer delivery (and consumer experience during the ownership period) is as flawless as it can be should come before volume. Of course volume is going to be important, but getting trusted consumers, and better brand recognition should in turn increase volume anyway.
Man the repercussion of my above posts, I can see this when the BH goes on sale - Hyundai only sold x units of the BH, while x maker sold a lot more units of y product
I must've missed it in this thread stated before but when does Hyundai plan to launch the Genesis in the U.S. in 2008? And is the $30,000 figure fairly close to reality?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Ah...er...no, the Phaeton is a large luxury sedan. In both V8 and W12 guise, it's a legitimate challenger to the Audi A8, M-B S Class, and BMW 7 Series. Though it bombed here, it's still being sold in Europe; in fact the 2nd generation of the car will be available there soon. I had the pleasure of having a brand new Phaeton W12 ($100,000!) for a weekend long "extended test drive" and it was nothing short of magnificent. It didn't make it here not because of any shortcomings of the car itself, but because Americans didn't buy into the idea of a $70,000 VW (V8 version).
My understanding is the the Genesis will start at around $30K. That will be a V6 version without options. I'm guessing that a fully loaded V8 will top out at around $42K. The V8 will definitely be the one to buy.
What a doltous car company! I guess if I cared enough about VW's fantabulous stable I would've looked that schtuff up on the interweb before posting all of that garbarge about the ill-fated Phaeton. Could they pick a goofier name? VW's lost it big-time IM....H....O.
Is there room enough for any more VW mistakes in the luxury arm of their mystique-ables?
Ahh...$30,000 for the stripped-down V6 version of the Hyundai Genesis. $42,000 for the V8...and with a name that just invites a closer look. Right guys?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Spot on backy. "No good deed goes upunished". That's what you get when people dislike a badge so much they are completely blinded to Hyundai's accomplishments. People that refuse to drive Hyundai's when car shopping are just shooting themselves in the foot. That's fine with me.
Call me selfish, but I don't care about Hyundai's success as long as I can buy their great cars at a great price. Everyone else can pay too much for all I care.
Yes. Hyundai can separate themselves from the others with this car in V8 form.
Why do you care that many people aren't as enamored with Hyundai as you?
Everyone else can pay too much for all I care.
Why DO you care? Not everybody uses price as the determiner as to which car to buy. What is "too much" to you may (and probably is) be money well spent to another.
Yea Hyundai builds a good car. But price them the same as a Honda and watch sales plunge.
You are exactly right, Lexus dealers aren't "decent", they are absolutely great. Even BMW dealers don't measure up to that standard.
To those expecting Hyundai to create a new brand for the Genesis, forget it. It ain't gonna happen, nor does it need to IMO.
Why not? Going back 17 years would you say the same thing to Toyota with the LS400 and 20 years for Honda with the Legend?? I know I kept bringing up the history but that's just me, I LOVE to learn from history because guess what, history does repeat itself. One is absolutely mad if he/she can just take a playbook right out of history but doesn't.
What they should do, however, is what VW did with the Phaeton, Audi with the RS6
Last I checked, Phaeton didn't exactly "shine" last time it was here. VW was trying to get into the high end luxury market with an above average mainstream brand, didn't work out too well for them. Wrong playbook here, Hyundai. The RS-line for Audi, M for BMW, AMG for MB and the future F-series for Lexus are totally different animals than the Genesis. They are factory-tuned sports cars for existing models, Genesis, on the other hand, is a brand new model. Again, wrong playbook here.
I sort of agree with Craig's idea. If Hyundai doesn't want to invest for a separate dealer network at this moment (which I think they should do), at least create a new brand with the Genesis. A Toyota/Scion type of relationship would not be my first choice but should work better than making the Genesis carries the Hyundai badge.
I really don't care. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I do hate to see people stretch their budget and pay $10K more than necessary just for a badge. However, I won't lose any sleep over it. Wish I would have had someone give me that advice when I bought an Audi way back in 86. Turns out that the badge was the only thing that didn't fall apart.
When choosing a car, quality, reliability, and warranty are of primary importance to me. Price is negotiable. I will spend what I must to get a good car. However, I would feel foolish for spending $10K more for a car of equal quality and reliabliity. Sporting a badge and grinning are not primary needs of mine. I realize that presteige is important to some, so I'm not criticizing you. If you can afford it, enjoy your Lexus. Life is too short to argue about cars, which are nothing more than steel, rubber, and glass.
Has the thought ever cross your mind that maybe, just maybe other people have different priorities than you while purchasing a car?
Yes, I realize that. I said so in my post.
Something other than badge and prestige?
No?
That covers just about everything except personal taste, for which there is no explanation.
Really? You sure you don't want to think harder?
Quality, reliability, and warranty are probably pretty important to everyone, while factors like badge, prestige, styling, handling, ride, quietness, price, room, economy, etc., are ranked as each buyer sees fit according to his personal tastes, needs, and pocketbook.
This statement,
The truth is the Hyundai Genesis, is both a BMW 5 series and Lexus GS/LS killer. Yes, they both should pack their bags and go home. It's not a distorted view but merely a fact.
is xxxxxx (whatever you want to fill in here.) I can tell you this, for sure, a Bimmer 5 or Lexas LS buyer, will not touch a hyundai with 10-feet pole, IRREGARDLESS how good a product hyundai can produce.
By the way, if you have ever been to a high line store, you can readily tell how much gap is there right now for hyundai dealers.
And with the "copy and paste" approach by the korean makers we are discussing here, the best it can do is to let someone who can't really afford a Bimmer thinks he is driving a Bimmer beater. Good thought.
I've been mostly wasting my time in the past week or so reading the hundreds of pretty silly postings in this thread, but you have absolutely nailed it.
Hyundai, at this point, offers only top of the line Veracruz or Azera models which approach near-luxury. Include the Genesis with those, and the total sales of those three models would not be enough to support a separate dealer network.
Don't expect the " Genesis " brand buyers to be treated any differently than the Hyundai buyer at those top tier dealerships, though. I was treated the same as a Focus buyer with my SVT Cobra at the Ford dealership - no free loaner, etc.
Handling, ride, and quietness fit under the "quality" umbrella. Price, room, economy fit under the "meet my needs" umbrella.
I would spend 50K for a car that met my quality and creature requirements... if I had to. I'm absolutely delighted that I don't have to.
Really? Let's take another look back at the history...
Honda debut the Acura line with 2 models: Legend and Integra.
Toyota debut the Lexus line with 2 models: LS400 and ES250.
If Hyundai debuts the luxury brand with the Genesis and Veracruz along with the RWD coupe coming a year later they are in a better position than Lexus and Acura back then.
There is nothing that convince me more that Hyundai is a value brand when I read stuff like this. You might not see any difference between an Outback steak and a $200 steak at the top steakhouse, but that doesn't mean the difference isn't real.
It's great you are happy with Hyundai as a brand, but not everybody wants to cut corners, and some are more than willing to shell out for it.
Do you think if Hyundai wants a piece of the luxury market in the future, which one is the better idea (not right now but let's say within the next 5 years)?
1. Launch a new brand and separate dealer network.
2. Turn Hyundai into a luxury brand and compete with MB, BMW and Lexus.
I think they should too. Why do they need to separate Hyundai products anyway? Just when Hyundai is starting to build a name for itself is not the time to try something new. Let the Genesis debut and see what happens.
If somebody buys a bottle/package of Tylenol for what $7.99 and they can get the same formula from a store brand made by Perrigo, for $4.99 I do not see how that's cutting corners ? :confuse:
-Rocky
P.S. $200 steak ? :surprise: I've seen $40 dollar ones but $200 must be on the East Coast. :surprise:
Because you don't see it, doesn't mean there is a difference.
P.S. $200 steak ? :surprise: I've seen $40 dollar ones but $200 must be on the East Coast.
Yeah, on the low end.
Their isn't no difference because I worked their and the formula's are exact copy's of the original's minus or adding a inactive ingredient.
-Rocky
That's a pretty good temporary solution and it should work for the meantime. However, what I am focusing is the long term strategy. I personally don't think the "brand within brand" strategy to go too far. After all, it is still called a Hyundai.
Like I've said, it takes money to make money. The return "usually" is directly proportional to the investment.
What is your background? Where do you live? It can't be on both coasts of the US. You seem to be very determined in knocking Hyundai down.
My final comment on this topic is that when Lexus, Acura and Infiniti came out, nobody thought they could take sales away from Lincoln and Cadillac, much less BMW, MB, Audi, et.al. Well they did and Hyundai may also with the right vehicles and right marketing. The Azera and Vera Cruz show that they are on the right path.
Of course Mazda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, etc. have not introduced a luxury line, so maybe there is a limit to how many can succed.
Hyundai could very well have three or four "luxury" cars being sold at their regular dealerships.
One advantage Hyundai has is that they have more dealers than Lexus, BMW, Audi, Acura, etc., at least in S.C.
BTW, maybe we all need to get back on topic and stop bashing other makes.
- Where do you live? It can't be on both coasts of the US. (Yes I've lived on both coasts)
- You seem to be very determined in knocking Hyundai down. (Nope, stating my viewpoint as a consumer)
My final comment on this topic is that when Lexus, Acura and Infiniti came out, nobody thought they could take sales away from Lincoln and Cadillac, much less BMW, MB, Audi, et.al
You seem to be believing that because Hyundai wants this market, it's a given it's going to get it. I'm sure their vehicles will sell, but leather seats do not a luxury vehicle make.
One of the best I've ever tried is off I-74 in corn country western Indiana. A family owned steak restaurant, the owner's (who are also Black Angus beef farmers) control the steak from hoof to the charcoal-grilled finished product. None in NYC or LA or SFO even come close to comparing.