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Comments
Completely agree with you !!!!
This also saves them R&D costs passed on to the consumer. I look at Hyundai, like Perrigo a store brand OTC drug producer. They copy and are able to sell their generic equivalent which is the same at a much cheaper price.
Hyundai, will spend some R&D on personal touches but not nearly as much as their more expensive competitors. The bottom line is Hyundai, is the luxury brand for the buyer who is careful with his/hers money. They don't need a badge to "prove" status or net worth.
-Rocky
IIRC, the current Equus luxury sedan in the domestic market has used the V-shaped emblem at least on the steering wheel, which has also been caught during the BH testings. There were some rumors that might be the new emblem on the BH steering wheel.
Hyundai sold 250K total cars in the US ytd, Honda sold how many Accords ytd + Toyota Camrys ytd. IIRC it's a big number. That is one indication of how America feels.
Trying to extrapolate the discussions of a few Hyundai buyers in a forum, is like trying to predict the reliability of the G35 by reading through the Infiniti G35 Maintenance and Solutions discussion.
You are comparing a company that has sold in the U.S. for a little over 20 years to one that has sold here for 50 years. Apparently the fact that Hyundai has more than quintupled its U.S. sales in the past nine years is not enough for you. Nor that Hyundai/Kia group sold more cars last year than Honda, Nissan, Chrysler, or Daimler. If that is any indication of how America, and the world, feels about Hyundai, I'd say it's a pretty positive showing.
Maybe if more people would actually go check out what Hyundai has to offer instead of relying on inaccurate or old information to form their opinions, they would sell as many cars as you think they should.
Hyundai is up against some stiff competition, both in the non-luxury and the new to be luxury front.
If sales are any indication of the way America votes with it's dollars, it's going to be a very tough road ahead for Hyundai. While some may believe the Genesis is a 5 series beater at a fraction of the cost and the Veracruz is an RX beater at a fraction of the cost, there will some commparisons ...future sales figures will be there to tell the truth.
1) I don't own shares/stakes in any of the automakers
2) I don't work for any of the automakers
3) I buy cars that best suit my needs, not which company I want to support for so they can have x additional units sold
This whole "Hyundai can/can't compete with xxxx" discussion really doesn't interest me on a personal level. I don't have any benefit other than sharing a few rounds with some of you guys, which still means almost nothing since this isn't the board room at an automaker. In other words, as a consumer, product > the well-being of a company
Being a luxury manfacturer is not the same as producing a vehicle with a lot of toys and nice leather.
But again the topic is: Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai? It has taken Lexus years to attempt to sell an very expensive vehicle. Mercedes, Porsche (I'll leave ultra-luxury out of this) could debut another high-end vehicle in two minutes selling for $250K, they have a cachet like no other. That is the luxury market that Hyundai wants to enter.
It really doesn't matter if America feels the same as Hyundai, that's not the point. I didn't post what I posted to represent Hyundai's view, rather, I posted it as a representation of my own view. It's about how I feel, the car that suits me the best, whatever the brand which may be. I listed out my personal preferences, and if they are different than America's opinion, then so be it. The world would be boring place if everyone had the same opinion, and frankly drove the same car, has the same wardrobe, etc etc
Thanks for reading.
Mmmmm... maybe it's not moot. Think about the last 4 Hyundai releases. They really nailed the Sonata, Azera, Santa Fe, and Veracruz. I have no reason to think they won't keep the trend going, and the Genesis will be awesome.
I'm in 100% agreement with you. I only meant that the Genesis will be their first attempt at a luxury vehicle. I'll wait to see it and drive it before I try to convince anyone whether or not Hyundai can compete in the luxury car market. What's the point of evaluating their ability to compete when they haven't even brought their first luxury entry to market yet?
The truth is the Hyundai Genesis, is both a BMW 5 series and Lexus GS/LS killer. Yes, they both should pack their bags and go home. It's not a distorted view but merely a fact.
Being a luxury manfacturer is not the same as producing a vehicle with a lot of toys and nice leather.
Nor is being a luxury manufactor a carwith a fancy emblem with fancy commercials. I as I told you many times in the ELLPS forum that a badge does not make a luxury car to all people. I know many people buy a Lexus ES series just to obtain the prestigous badge when all it really is a wooded and leather lined Toyota Camry. I'd be willing to bet you at least DrFill, would go to bat defending it as a luxury car. I'm not knocking the car as they are nice but come-on is it really a luxury car ???? Is the Honda Accord, reskinned Acura TL, really a luxury car ????? Just because they have a badge on them does't make em one IMHO. I think it's a lot more important to have the gadget's, premium leather, power, upgraded warranty, service, etc, to fit the criteria. Hyundai, is meeting all of those objectives.
-Rocky
Actually, the last four Hyundai releases were (in backwards order) the Veracruz, Elantra, Entourage, and Santa Fe. I think Hyundai did a fine job on the Veracruz and Santa Fe, and the Entourage is a good effort also considering it's Hyundai's first minivan for the U.S. (although really a Kia design). The Elantra is a good car too, although a couple of hammer strokes short of "nailed." But IMO Hyundai will have to execute better on the Genesis than they have for any previous launch--expectations are higher. Many people will be watching closely, waiting for Hyundai to make any small misstep. They will need to sweat every single detail for Genesis and other luxury models.
It will not have fake wood.
It will not use a lot of cheap, hard plastics in the interior.
It will have excellent interior lighting including "ambient" lighting, LED instrument lighting, F+R reading lamps, illuminated door openers, backlighting for ALL switchgear.
It will offer front and rear heated seats.
It will offer adaptive cruise control.
It will have an extremely quiet cabin at high speeds.
It will have pivoting bi-xenon headlights.
It will offer more than one type of suspension, allowing buyers to choose the one that best meets their needs.
The interior will feature a high grade of leather.
It will have full Bluetooth compatibility.
It will be available in colors not shared with other Hyundais.
It will have an exquisitely smooth and powerful powertrain.
If indeed the Genesis turns out to be a legitimate luxury car, people will buy it regardless of price rather than because of price. Time will tell.
Sadly, I disagree. Yes, a few astute buyers will steal themselves a new Genesis, but most will not even be smart enough to research and test drive the car. It may get rolling in year 2 or 3, but I think sales for year 1 will be mostly Hyundai owners moving up.
I thought "nailing" it was supposed to be a positive thing.
Put me in the "sales are everything" modifier (non-rental sales to be more specific) to be considered for the "nailed it" award.
Not so fast - I've noticed that the Azera is exactly the same car as the Sonata - with better trim, a wood steering wheel, and a little nicer dash. While this isn't unique to Hyundai, that car can't compete even with Acura in driving refinement. If it's what you want for the money, great - but it doesn't satisfy me. The Genesis needs to be RWD and available with a V-8 to play with the big boys. Are they going to be that way? If not, Hyundai will play with Lincoln, in the MKZ arena.....and maybe they'll win there.
Yes on both counts. It will be RWD and a V8 that according to Hyundai puts out "well over 300 horsepower" (rumored but not confirmed to be 380) will be one of the two engines offered.
I didn't want to imply the Hyundai lineup was a smashing sales success. All that I was saying is they are very nice cars. Me and others here have recently said that Hyundai will have to be patient and work through the outdated perception their cars are not reliable. I think sales is a lagging indicator of quality, and will improve when the buying public catch on.
High sales numbers do not guarantee a good car, nor does a good car necessarily guarantee high sales. I think plenty of examples of that can be cited both ways.
That's like saying the TL is exactly the same car as the Accord. The Azera is bigger inside and out compared to the Sonata, has a totally different body and interior, a bigger and more powerful engine, and many more standard and optional features (e.g. 8 airbags and alloys standard, memory seats and nav optional). They are much different cars.
But I agree the Azera is not a luxury car--it's a near-luxury car, meant to compete with the likes of Avalon and Lucerne rather than Acura. The RWD, V8 Genesis will be a direct competitor to Acura et. al.
Funny how many Hyundai experts there are in this thread, most of whom have never sampled their current product line.
Does anyone know if Hyundai has ever produced a RWD car with an independent rear suspension? Does the Equus have that, for example?
Anyway, the only RWD Hyundai had to date, which sold very well by the way, the Pony, and I don't believe it had independent read suspension back then
Advanced adaptive cruise control
All of Hyundai standard safety features
Heat / cool seats
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps with adaptive leveling
Push-button start
Navigation with backup camera
Electric parking brake
Bluetooth technology
USB / Auxiliary input jack
HD Radio™ Receiver
XM Satellite Radio® · Infinity® Discrete Surround Audio System
It will offer more than one type of suspension, allowing buyers to choose the one that best meets their needs.
There was a spy shot, and on the Nav screen, it showed the leveling of the car, which seemed to indicate something along the lines of height adjustable suspension - we shall wait and see since it was a Korean spec mule.
I've also heard talks of XM NavTraffic but that is remained to be seen. Here is the HD radio press release:
Hyundai To Offer HD Radio™ Receiver On Future Premium Sports Sedan
NEW YORK, April 4, 2007 – Hyundai will continue to stay on the leading edge of automotive technology by offering HD Radio on its rear-wheel drive premium sports sedan scheduled for introduction in 2008.
“In 2005, Hyundai broke an industry barrier by announcing it would be the first automaker to standardize satellite radio in all of our vehicles,” said John Krafcik, vice president of Strategic Planning and Product Development, Hyundai Motor America. “By adding the option of HD Radio reception to our new premium sports sedan we will continue to provide Hyundai customers with the latest digital technology to enhance the driving experience.”
More than 1200 AM and FM stations, available to approximately 80 percent of the U.S. population, are using HD Radio technology to transmit digital audio and data to their listeners.
Consumer benefits of HD Radio broadcasting include:
* Across the country, 550 HD2 multicast channels on the FM dial offer additional, subscription-free content that can only be heard with an HD Radio receiver. These channels feature fresh new music and news formats, showcase young artists and local bands, air non-English language programming, and more.
* Crystal-clear, static-free reception
* CD-quality FM stations
* FM-stereo quality sound AM stations
* Text display on an LCD screen including: artist names, song titles, weather and traffic alerts, school closings, sports scores, etc.
* Best of all, there are no fees associated with HD Radio programming.
http://www.ibiquity.com/press_room/news_releases/2007/1008
Currently only BMW offers HD radio as factory-installed options; Jaguar and Hyundai to join the party soon. Ford has it as dealer-installed options, I believe.
I doubt the refresh will do much for the Sonata syndrome. The sales seems pegged at a number well below that of a CamCord, or even the Altima - not a real sales threat. The Sonata and Santa Fe tho seem to be the 2 vehicles that are putting Hyundai back on the map for American car buyers and opening their eyes to Hyundai.
All the better for the Genesis. The RWD format should be a hit for Hyundai. They'll sell more of them than Azeras.
And the Terracan, but that wasn't IRS either.
Was it RWD at some point during its life cycle?
Hyundai World-wide
I am often criticized by others for being too "particular" and I am not "cheap," just believe in the old American philosophy of getting what I pay for.
Actually I have written to Lexus and told them why I did not buy their cars without considering the cost at all. I would like nothing better than to find a Lexus GS or BMW 5 series or MB in a couple of years that provides what I want in a car, not considering cost. None did this year.
For me, the Lexus did not meet my needs and its chief attribute was an L on the front. If you lived in Upstate SC, you would know what I mean.
Kinda silly. So if they don't like that version, then what? Wait 3 more years til the porridge is just right?
Hardly scientific aha as to why Sonata sales languish in neutral.
If others are like me, this may be one of the reasons why the Sonata sales have stagnated. However, if there are those out there with your attitude, they can get super deals on the current version.
- Once out of the paint shop the cars are put under special lights where trained eyes look for imperfections - and around 10% don’t make it. They have to go back through the process.
- Once the car is assembled it has to go through quality checks involving a staggering 1,400 items.
-There are some 2.5 kilometres of quality check lines at Miyata [Japanese factory where the Lexus IS and ES are built] making sure that not only does everything work, but such things as the door closing speed and the sound of the seat and sunroof sliders are monitored.
-Such attention to detail means that currently around 30% of the IS sports saloons and RX sport utility vehicles are rejected by the quality police and have to go back for treatment.
Source: The Passionate Pursuit
That plus the level of customer service they offer worth the price difference? Heck yeah in my book.
On another topic, here's an idea of what Hyundai is doing to upgrade dealer service while getting ready for the Genesis launch:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/02/hyundai-brings-down-the-hammer-on-50-dealers/-