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Comments
Seeing as it is no official policy of any lux manufacturer (that I know of) to offer delivery of loaners, I don't know who is arguing it is a necessary step. Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, but I don't see it being a specific issue before...it is a long ways from offering free drinks and ostentatious dealer buildings. Kudos to H if they can make it work, but I do wonder how it will work for those living 50+ miles away from a dealership.
They didn't sink much into the styling...so there's savings. Maybe the KDM sales have already paid for the tooling and development, and it can be sold in NA for less. Does paying Edmunds to run a masked sales piece count as a marketing cost? :P
We'll have to see how the bring-the-loaner-to-you program works. But think of the convenience for those buyers who do live a long ways from a dealership. That could be a good way to entice buyers like that to spring for an Equus, if distance from a dealer was an issue. Unless there is some distance limit--we'll see.
Can you please post the link re the amount of money that Hyundai paid to Edmunds.com for running the piece by Krafcik? If there's no link, I think you'll agree it didn't happen, right?
If there's no distance limit for those loaners, that plan combined with the long warranty could be a money loser. Although that might be acceptable to H for the publicity, some costs can be written off for potential future gains.
I can't see any other glowing PR-crafted articles like that Equus posted as news here, but maybe it is a coincidence. I will post a link as soon as I see those tuned models I can go down and buy today :P
Speaking of loaners...a friend of mine's father has an 09 Santa Fe that just lost its transmission at 18K miles - the car replaced one of those ghastly first generation models that was actually trouble-free, He has a lowline Elantra for a loaner. So that might be the fleet so far...but with the amount of new Sonatas I see as rentals, maybe they will move up.
As for your question... I answered it and explained how you could look up the info for yourself on google, even provided the search string for you. And you call that being "snapped at"? Talk about drama.
As for a link to a tuned Genesis coupe you can buy today, here you go:
1) Buy your choice of Genesis coupe--new or used. (I expect you know the links to find those, if not let me know.)
2) Buy your choice of tuning kits/parts made specifically for the Genesis coupe by suppliers such as HKS (http://www.hksusa.com/).
3) Either install the parts yourself or pay someone to install them for you.
There you have it! A tuned Genesis coupe that you can shell out your bucks to buy any time you feel like it.
I am not sure what your reference to the Santa Fe was all about, and what it has to do with this discussion, since it's a fact (which you choose to ignore, apparently) that the loaners for the Equus will be another Equus or a Genesis--not an Accent with manual windows or a "lowline" Elantra. So I am missing your point and its relevance.
The tuned car discussion was never about DIY.
The Santa Fe loaner story relates to Hyundai loaners. If a Genesis goes on the fritz, I wonder what kind of loaner is given out. Likely not another Genesis.
Regards:
OldCEM
No luck for me on a Google search for 2011 Sonata rentals. I could only find one hit that had anything to do with renting the car in the US. There were a lot of the previous generation Sonatas in rental fleets; I rented quite a few of them over the years. Just haven't seen any 2011s in rental lots at airports of major cities like I see Camrys, Fulans, Malibus--lots of those out there. But I have to complement you on your keen observing skills, to notice the barcode stickers on 2011 Sonata rentals. I'm actually surprised there's ANY of those out there, given Hyundai doesn't seem to have any trouble selling them to the public with minimal incentives.
I don't know what the loaner policy of individual Hyundai dealers is wrt the Genesis. Maybe some do provide Genesis loaners, but maybe something less. If a car like a Lexus LS460 L, BMW 760Li, or C63 AMG is in for service, do you suppose the owners get the same kind of car as a loaner? I wouldn't think so--probably something more pedestrian. The Equus loaner deal is different, though--it's a general, corporate program, not something dependent on individual dealer policies. Which is a good thing in that it offers some consistency--Equus owners need fear they'll get an Accent loaner (although the upcoming Accent looks pretty decent, for an economy car).
I've been buying Jaguars since 2003. Various sources indicate that Jag's CPO vehicle warranty is one of the best in the business. Try to find out what it actually covers on their website - all it says is - see your dealer for details.
Regards:
OldCEM
Pore over this...you'll find something...for many years I have played around about observing rental cars, they are not difficult to spot once you get the hang of it. And minimal incentives? Local screamer ads for $199/month leases don't scream a product shortage.
I know in my area, the MB dealer has some C and E loaners, Lexus has RX and ES, I don't know about BMW. If H is looking to blow away the competition, they'll need to at least match that.
So when will you be picking up that new Genesis coupe and having your mechanic of choice add the HKS et. al. tuning pieces for you? Or will you be going the tuned K-car or Metro route instead?
Thanks for the link, but you found the one report (from a CR blog) that I found--no other details on rentals of 2011 Sonatas. And after that one post about a trip in a rental, there was this post: "What company did you rent the Sonata from? I'm looking to rent one but can't find one. Any help would be appreciated!" So it looks like others are having the same problem I have, finding 2011 Sonata rentals. Hertz in particular would be good; I tend to rent mostly from them (company policy).
I think Hyundai can easily match Lexus and MB in having their lowest-line cars as loaners. But given that the Sonata is the biggest volume seller, it would probably make sense to provide those as loaners for Genesis owners, if another Genesis isn't available.
I don't get into the whole dealer experience thing anyway. If my car has to visit the dealer very often, I'll find another brand.
The tuned discussion was never about a DIY frankencar.
If you want to know who rents what, call some specific offices. Rental fleets often vary by region. This discussion claims National Maybe shell out a few bucks and do a rental on your own at another company. Or better yet, buy a Sonata, one can't go wrong, right?
There's a gigantic difference between a lowline MB or Lexus vs a lowline H and the cost of maintaining a fleet of loaners of the respective cars. Apples to oranges. It will be interesting to see what happens.
guess you really were born yesterday - exactly how would you think that Edmond's (or several other commercial rating orgs) make their money? Nothing to do with all those sidebars and links on their webpages, I suppose OR FTM a ridiculously self promotional article written by Hyundai's PR dept. Back in the old days this phenomena was called advertising, and historically it hasn't been cheap, FYI
Furthermore do you really think that if Edmund's were to allow for such self promotional garbage from one Co. 'no charge' that they wouldn't be obligated then to provide that same opportunity for others. Of course Hyundai paid to get Krafcik's PR statements on Edmund's, and you don't need links to substantiate such things - only the ability to get one's head out of the sand, and a bit of common sense.
If you really believe Hyundai paid Edmunds.com to post the op-end piece, why not contact Edmund.com's PR folks (email link is on the InsideLine page) and ask them what they paid? If it's so commonplace, they should have no problem providing that information, or at least confirming they paid for the piece. Then you can post that info here and get yourself a big "I told you so" in the bargain.
But not for $199/month, which is the deal you brought to the discussion. I am only pointing out that in the ads I've seen, there's big up-front costs for that deal--which has run since the debut of the 2011 Sonata. As for the ads proving there's no "run" on the car, are you suggesting that Hyundai should stop advertising its cars that are selling well? How about automakers like Toyota and Honda, then? Should they stop advertising or offering special lease deals or rebates because their cars are selling well?
Or better yet, buy a Sonata, one can't go wrong, right?
I already own one. How about you? How about getting some first-hand experience with the cars and brand that you like to talk so much about?
The tuned discussion was never about a DIY frankencar.
OK then. Here's your link to a tuned factory Genesis: tuned V6 and tranny (compared to the sedan), tuned suspension, special Brembo brakes, etc. Pricing information is in the article, so you know how much to withdraw from your piggy bank to buy one.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0905_2010_hyundai_genesis_coupe_3- _8_track_test/index.html
There's a gigantic difference between a lowline MB or Lexus vs a lowline H and the cost of maintaining a fleet of loaners of the respective cars.
One advantage of offering a full line of vehicles--loaners can be nice but less expensive cars like Elantras and Sonatas. Looks like Lexus and MB can catch up a bit though by offering owners of their high-end cars a low-end loaner, while Hyundai has committed to providing Equus or Genesis loaners for Equus owners.
How about me? I haven't owned anything other than a MB since I was 18 years old. I have more "first hand experience" than most. Nice try though. And you don't own a Genesis or Equus, right? The cars relevant to this thread.
Yes, the mildly souped up "track" coupe. It's been out for over a year now, why is it just brought up now? Nice car, yes. And why doesn't this variant exist in the more useful sedan form?
Why should a nice loaner only go to Equus and not Genesis buyers? Isn't 43K + taxes and fees enough to gain admission into this club? And what commitment...the program exists only on paper right now. I can't see where the "catching up" is to be done.
Uh... the recession? I see lots of ads on the merits of the car, on TV and in mags.
I see lots of ads touting only price for MBs, Lexii, and Infinities. Low, subsidized lease rates. Why the heck do they do that, rather than just talking about how great the cars are? We have been told many times here that these luxury brands are worth paying more for than cars like the Genesis that are sold w/o a luxury brand--so why focus on price??
I have driven the Genesis. I've inspected the Equus up close and in person. How about you?
As for why I provided the link to the Track coupe... because you were begging for a link to a tuned factory Genesis. You're welcome, by the way.
I consider an Elantra or Sonata a very nice loaner, one I would be quite happy with on those rare occasions I'd have to bring in a Genesis sedan for service that I can't wait for. Why shouldn't MB provide an S Class loaner to C Class buyers?
Why would one waste the time of a salesman and test drive a car they had no intention to buy? Or did you know one well enough as to arrange a drive? I don't know any, and I have no desire to waste their time. But I've seen several and sat in both variants. I don't know if there's even an Equus in my area...and weird looking KDM designs aren't enough to get me going on a wild goose chase.
Why did it take so long to mention that "track" model? That wasn't what was linked before, was it? Is the coupe even a "luxury" vehicle to begin with? I don't know if that does it...no sedan, nothing really very intense...and I am not grateful :P
Sure there is nothing wrong with an Elantra or Sonata, but comparing loaning one to a Genesis owner a much lower car is kind of a distraction. How can an S-class even fall into discussion, when no credible person will equate it to any H product?
The GM and owner of the company I work for both drive BMWs (a 7 and a 5). When they are in the shop (often!) there is always a 3 series as the loaner.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I agree completely. I don't like wasting time of salespeople asking for a test drive of a car I have zero intention of considering for ownership. My policy on that is, if the salesperson offers to let me take a car for a test drive, I'll do it (assuming I have time and interest). But I won't ask for a test drive unless I'd consider owning that car. On the Genesis, Hyundai had a test-drive event in my town back in 2008, so I got the chance to compare the Genesis (I chose the 3.8) head-to-head with the likes of the CTS and E Class (I chose the CTS--a $50k model; the $38k Genesis blew it away). And I saw the Equus at my local auto show this spring. It's too bad you don't have an auto show in your area--they are lots of fun.
Most of the time when sweetheart leases are screamed on TV for highline cars, it is for an aging product, especially in the last model year or two to clear out stock. Not usually for the latest and greatest.
Not sure why you are focusing on TV ads, but I see lots of ads in the paper on high-line cars with the lease prices in big print--I guess that could be considered "screaming". Nothing on how great the cars are. And this is for relatively new models--C Class, E Class, ES, RX, and M for example. So I have no idea why you are singling out Hyundai here. Everyone advertises price in this tough market.
The S Class loaners fall into the discussion because you seem to be asserting that Hyundai should offer Genesis loaners for Genesis service work. So I think it's reasonable that automakers like MB offer like-for-like for service work, e.g. an E Class for an E Class, and an S Class for an S Class--and not a lowly C Class. If it's OK for MB to hand out C Class loaners for cars that cost twice as much, then IMO it's fine for Hyundai to offer loaners like the Sonata and even the Elantra for cars that cost twice as much (Genesis).
Re the Track Genesis, I gave you the link because you insisted you wanted a factory tuned car, not one that was DIY. (Most "tuned" cars use add-on products, btw. That's why they're called "tuned".) But I won't be providing you with any other links, no matter how many times you demand them. You'll have to find them yourself.
Heaven knows that there is a large J3 company right now, that would just love to tell us about how they're solving all their problems, extoll on their products virtues and other accomplishments etc - if only they could get Edmond's to help them do it - for nothing, of course.
Your problem is that you are all to quick to bite on anything anybody says as long as it is what you want to hear. Call me the proverbial doubting Thomas - I look deeper than that and recognize that money is ultimately behind almost everything
An op-ed, abbreviated from opposite the editorial page (though often mistaken for opinion-editorial), is a newspaper article that expresses the opinions of a named writer who is usually unaffiliated with the newspaper's editorial board. These are different from editorials, which are usually unsigned and written by editorial board members.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed
i.e., it's an OPINION. There's no harm in publishing opinions on a web site if they are clearly identified as such. I recognize an opinion piece when I see it. And I have no problem determining whether I agree with the opinion or not.
Since you refuse to confirm whether or not Edmunds.com paid for the Krafcik piece, I'll ask their PR people about it and let you know what I find out.
I don't read newspaper car ads, maybe I am missing out. I am unaware of any loud sweetheart lease promotion for any of those cars within a few months of introduction - although admittedly they offer some amazing deals as a given model is nearing the end of its lifespan. Apples to oranges.
I'm just curious as why only the highest model gets the highline loaner, where if I buy a 43K highline make, I will get a loaner from the same make. Maybe once the Equus is offically here, the Genesis loaners will also be offered to Genesis owners. Of course, they will never be used anyway, as these are flawless machines.
Nice story about the "track" coupe...why wasn't it brought up when asked ages ago? It's not a new model. Was it the same link from before? I guess that will be a secret forever, as I couldn't find it, and nobody can produce it
I can't tell you the specific reason why a salesperson would offer a test drive in a car. Maybe they think that I'll love the car so much when I drive it that I'll trade earlier than I planned. But it's their choice to offer a test drive, and their decision to use their time that way.
FWIW, the M is a few months from introduction and already I see the newspaper ads touting the low lease rates. Just one example.
How do you know that at least some Hyundai dealers don't offer Genesis loaners to Genesis owners who have their cars in for service? The only thing we know for sure is, Hyundai (and every other manufacturer unless someone comes up with the evidence to the contrary) has no general loaner program for new cars that guarantees that the owner will receive the same model of car as a loaner, as the car that is in for service. Thus this seems to be a dead equus, er, horse.
You really are obsessed about links to tuned cars that you have no interest in buying. As for my original link to the tuned Genesis coupe, which I posted in Town Hall awhile back--why do you care so much about it? If you really do care that much about the link, go find it. And maybe explain to us the relevance of this very, very important link to this discussion, so we don't draw blood scratching our heads.
We invited him (John Krafcik) to submit his thoughts, and we certainly don't charge for publishing them. This isn't the first time we've had a contribution from an auto executive. Check out Carlos Ghosn's piece at http://www.insideline.com/nissan/leaf/electric-cars-now-not-tomorrow.html and Bob Lutz's article at http://www.insideline.com/features/general-motors-the-year-ahead.html. We're currently reaching out to other car companies in hopes to get more such submissions. I'm ccing Editor In Chief Scott Oldham to ensure that he considers the ideas you have presented, including the possibility of more clearly identifying that the op-ed is not an advertorial.
So can we stop the nonsense about Hyundai paying off Edmunds.com to run an op-end piece, and that publishing an opinion piece is somehow unfair to other auto companies?
I will take your word about the M...seeing that the previous one probably sold as much to Hertz as private buyers, I am sure they are doing what they can for exposure.
I just find it funny that 43K isn't enough to gain entrance into the fancy loaner club.
I am not as obsessed as some are with the Equus (and probably Genesis) they have no real interest in buying. I just like the crazy comparisons. Regarding the link, I don't claim it exists, the burden of proof isn't on me :P
I just find it funny that 43K isn't enough to gain entrance into the fancy loaner club.
BMW, MB, and Lexus don't seem to provide luxury loaners for their luxury car owners when their cars are in for service... unless you consider the 3 Series, C Class and ES to be "luxury" cars. So why should Hyundai? The double standard rears its head again. Oh, I forgot... you like crazy comparisons--like comparing Hyundai's standardized loaner policy for the Equus to... NO standard loaner policy for competitors. That's a crazy one, all right.
I don't know what a CL65 owner gets for a loaner - there might not even be an official policy, but if I buy a 43K MB I will likely get a fairly similar car for a loaner. H has a policy on paper, be interesting to see how it pans out, especially if any rural dwellers buy that big car.
"Crazy comparison" = Equus to 7er, A8, S, etc :shades:
Same thing with two local Lexus dealers of mine. One only has ES350s as loaner vehicles while the other has IS, ES, GS, RX and two or three LS's which they pair up with someone who is having their LS in for service. Again, they try to pair up the loaner with the same vehicle that is brought in as bests they can, depending on volume and models brought in of course, while the other one that only has ES350s for loaners obviously can not do that. If you come in with a LS you'll be given a ES.
I'm just using these two examples to illustrate how stealership specific the loaner policies and options are when your car needs to go in. I agree that I don't think any luxury manufacture in the US has a set policy for loaners and options for loaners national wide. Each stealership decides what they want to do.
The Genesis sedan is a bit big for my needs, and the Equus moreso, but I am intrigued by the rumors of an upcoming model that would slot in below the current Genesis sedan--maybe a 3 Series/G/C Class fighter. Now THAT would definitely interest me--but only when my kids are out of the house, as I want it all for myself.
Why don't we see when the Equus actually hits the US roads whether the comparison to those cars is as crazy as you make it seem? Maybe you'll actually drive an Equus to see for yourself how it compares to other luxury cars... ROFL, oh my gosh, I almost split a spleen on that one!
I have only seen RX and ES loaners from the Lexus dealer down the street from me...but maybe they have higher models that aren't marked. It's a huge and busy dealer, so it could be possible. Same for the MB dealer.
Yeah, I will await credible comparisons between the Equus and the proven competition. It should be fun. Doubt I will drive one though, especially if it aims at Lexus driving characteristics (which in my book are not positive)...maybe in another 30 or 40 years, if we even have personal transport then.
you know what - that's all fine BUT if we are to assume that Edmond's can absolve itself from any journalistic responsibilites (fairness, equal time etc.) by simply 'noting' this PR BS as a Hyundai execs 'opinion' then they do need to be on the phone with anybody and everybody who'd like to enjoy this supoosedly free press.
I can't help but think that some VP of Toyota would love to be able to use Edmond's resources right now for a PR blurb about how well Toyota is handling its recalls IN HIS OPINION, because Edmond's is prone to providing these kind of services and because we all KNOW that 'opinion' is not self serving and/or biased. And Edmond's publishes this kind of thing, in the case for Hyundai - for nothing - according to you.. Yeah right!
Nothing, in my mind, is really free these days - except in the skewed visions of swoopy H fandom
Maybe you could contact Toyota USA and recommend that they ask Edmunds.com for "equal time"? That would be more constructive than multiple posts here whining about the Krafcik piece.
But you are stepping over the line with comments such as: "And Edmond's (sic) publishes this kind of thing, in the case for Hyundai - for nothing - according to you.. Yeah right!" You are not only calling me a liar, but you are calling Edmund.com's Jeannie Fallon a liar.
Yep, it's getting really hard to come up with anything new to say here against Hyundai's efforts in the luxury market, isn't it? So you resort to calling people liars. There isn't even the Equus hood ornament for some folks to complain about.
As for Mini Coopers not being BMWs... do you have a reading problem? I have stated clearly in the past that I know the difference between a BMW and a Mini Cooper. But they are sold at the SAME DEALERSHIPS, side by side. So it is reasonable to imagine a scenario in which the BMW/Mini dealership would give Mini Cooper loaners to BMW owners who bring in cars for service.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
BMW apparently decided to sell cars from a different manufacturer at its dealerships. Kind of an odd marketing strategy, though...
To which I say he's right if you can accept the competition he is defining. Genesis 's competition, IMO, is not $50 or $60k Japanese or German sedans, it is those other $40k upscale sedans. The Avalons, the Maxs, the TLs and the like. On that basis then the Gen is not such a resounding success is it? You really want to look at market share when you put the Gen sedan in the class where the majority are sold? Probably not, it would blow Krafcik's entire argument.
As for the Genesis vs. the likes of Avalon, Maxima, and TL, and talking intelligently and (we hope) using facts vs. insults... let's look at the Acura, which at least has luxury pretensions. And sales-wise, it is not far ahead of the Genesis. In May, it was 2925 TLs to 2480 Genesii. There's some coupes in there, but not that big a difference, is it really? And Avalon sold only 3029 copies in May, even though a refresh is out now, and Toyota has twice as many dealers as Hyundai. And you are comparing FWD V6 sedans to RWD sedans, the majority of which are sold with V8s (per Krafcik). Apples to oranges. Yet the Genesis is doing fairly well against 2 of the 3 cars you cited.
Thanks.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/take-that-mustang-hyundai-develops-429-hp-5-0-liter- -tau-v-8-will-hook-it-to-eight-speed-auto/?zeta_mid=HFMU_303243&zeta_rid=5918951-
They're junk cars, after all.
Thanks.
That's all, folks.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick