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Comments
PROVIDED Lexus actually was it's own company. They built not just a car, but a company, to beat any other.
I'll make a deal with you. If Hyundai can ever sit at the same table as Mercedes, in this country, I'll eat your hat!
DrFill
DrFill
The difference between these two? 10 years of development, thousands of sales a month, and the admiration of an entire industry.
You didn't think I could tell, did you?
DrFill
OH! And one is a Lexus. :shades:
DrFill
The planet where a "$40k+, 5 seat, luxury CUV" is a rebadged Toyota Harrier. There is a case to be made that Hyundai isn't ready to play in the high-mainstream luxury segment, but that case can't be built on the RX.
They have the right formula, and that hasn't changed.
Don't hate it 'cause it's beautiful.
DrFill
Dude it is not beautiful.
Have it your way, right away.
DrFill
I didn't say it was ugly I just said it wasn't beautiful.
But, what a knock-off! I didn't realize until you put the side by side up. That type of imitation is pretty bizarre to me - but it will sell like hot cakes to the people who are cheap, but don't want to appear that way. And, it's probably a great car too.
The look, the Motor Trend article, the advertising.
Hyundai orchestrated all of that. Bless 'em! They spent the dollars, and took a shot.
And the market has spoken. :lemon:
If they were selling 4-5k a month, Hyundai wouldn't let you hear the end of it. Even if they could outsell the CX-9, Hyundai would be knighted as the hottest thing since pockets! :surprise:
And the apologists here will rattle off all sorts of excuses, but how do they explain the Ford Edge? It can outsell a Toyota Highlander! And the vehicle isn't even that good! Look at the reviews! The Vereacruz is probably twice the vehicle the Edge is! :surprise:
As it turns out, greatness, thy name is not Hyundai..... :P
Are you surprised?
DrFill
I think with the luxury brands building entry level vehicles and the standard brands plushing out their top of the line vehicles, the water is very muddy. Why would anyone buy as ES350 when they can get a loaded Camry for a lot less?
It may take time but people will wise up.
We already have - a 2006 Azera Limited/Ultimate! When we wanted to replace my wife's 2003 Acura TL, we looked at the new TLs, the Infiniti G35s, the Accords, the Mercedes, the Mazdas, the Altimas, and the Camrys. Each was attractive in someways, but lacking in others. Although not greatly concerned about price, I insist upon getting excellent value. Then while looking at a Mazda the salesman asked: "Have you looked at the new Azera?". To which I of course replied: "The new what?!?". Well, it was love at first sight for both of us! When we examined the features, the build quality, the looks, the fact that each component of the car was better than it needed to be or than the competition had, (larger, more sophisticated engine, larger tires, plush interior, large inside but small outside, damped grab bars, fully lined trunk, LED tail lights, rear sunshade, better stereo, better warranty, etc, etc, etc!), plus the fire sale price, that was the car for her! Eighteen months later, she is still delighted!!
The Genesis looks to be a larger, more luxurious, more powerful, even more sophisticated, more upscale, Azera at a price that will outclass the competition by thousands of dollars. A loaded TL now lists for about $42,000! Apparently the Genesis will be significantly nicer for maybe $10,000 less!! Plus we really enjoy driving something special, not just another overpriced, mundane Mercedes or brassy BMW!
The Genesis should be most attractive to those of us who look for a high class car - not just a 'high class' nametag!
-Rocky
Who cares about market and sales voodoo? What difference does it make to the owner? Does sales make a car more reliable? More luxurious? A better value? A better warranty?
Go take a trip in your pile of sales charts, and I'll take a trip in my Hyundai. We'll see who gets there first. While on my trip, I'll be laughing at all those Toyata owners that paid too much, and got shorted on the warranty.
In all seriousness, Hyundai is in a part of the business cycle that Toyota was in over 20 years ago. Toyota had to garner 1. Name recognition 2. Respect for their quality and reliability. 3. Expand their line to more upscale markets.
Hyundai is just now making inroads into No. 2. Although Hyundai is fast tracking things, give them a little more time. The results will be the same as Toyota. How they get there doesn't matter. All is fair in business.
DrFill, I do believe I detect jealousy that your beloved Toyota is not busting out with fine new models like Hyundai is currently doing. All the :lemon: signs can only mean you are feeling threatened.
What owners? That's the whole point! :P
In all seriousness, Hyundai is in a part of the business cycle that Toyota was in over 20 years ago.
You said it! Hyundai is 2 decades behind Toyota. Now you're cookin' with gas!
DrFill, I do believe I detect jealousy that your beloved Toyota is not busting out with fine new models like Hyundai is currently doing. All the signs can only mean you are feeling threatened.
The full-court press by Hyundai to go after their American Idol says differently.
DrFill
Yes! Think about it! Although Toyota had a 20 year head start, Hyundai is already equal to Toyota in quality and reliability. Hyundai is improving at a rate that Toyota has never acheived. That doesn't bode well for Toyota. In only 2-3 years, Hyundai will best them (and make no mistake about it, that's Hyundai's goal) in every possible category. In 5-6 years, even your beloved sales will be in jeopardy.
That was a quick reply. It must be a slow sales day on the Toyota lot. :lemon:
You guys are pretty thick.
But you keep reach reaching for the stars!
Sorry to disturb your dream-posting. I'll keep it down.
DrFill
Toyota will have to drop prices to keep competing as people shop more and buy less. Hyundai is in a good position to make gains. To me it is design and warranty that is better than Toyota. I like my new Sequoia. You could not give me a Camry.
For around $30,000 for starters? Feel free to tell me they decided to make the Genesis FWD and this is all a dream. If you can. Otherwise I am going to continue to believe that there is a large amount of room in the luxury market for Hyundai.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Also, it is no more reliable than the Azera, comes with less and costs $5,000 more.
As for between Azera and Avalon I will choose Azera too. The Avalon is a better car IMO but at least for me, it is not $5K better. However, this could differ from people to people.
They have it shaming Avalon, and Lexus, and fortunately, the people know better.
Hasn't exactly moved the Earth in comparisons, either.
DrFill
It's just funny that some people would compare Azera to the ES (and GS, this is the first I'd have to say) and say that the Azera is better. It's even funnier that people would say something like the GS and ES doesn't look like a luxury car.
I really want to take them to the auto show and give them a lesson myself. :P
Crash tests, resale, word-of-mouth, sales increases, these are all indicators.
You can learn from them. Or not.
DrFill
People who are looking at a Ford Edge probably won;t look at a Vera Cruz they'll probably look at a Santa Fe if they are shopping an Edge against a Hyundai product.
I thought a TL lists for like 33.5K-35K not 42K like your saying.
A Type S with high-performance tires (the only available extra-cost option; nav is standard) stickers for $39,140 (including destination).
-Rocky
You've gone too far. :P
A base TL with the automatic is 33,725.
Oh, but they'll compare it with a Lexus $10k more expensive? But not a similar vehicle, at a similar price?
That makes sense! Explains the low sales targets. :surprise:
Now I understand.
DrFill
We will see but I have a feeling hyundai, will take enough away from Honyota, that real damage will be done.
-Rocky
What is Hyundai gonna jump up 100,000 with each passing year for the next 10 years to catch Honda? I don;t think so. I;ll give you Hyundai is making a good product but they are not gonna race up the sales charts that fast.
Looks like a vicious case of Dain Bramage!
#200! Woo-Hoo!
DrFill
No but they can take 50,000 sales away from Toyota, and 50,000 more sales from Honda, over 10 years and they will be a major player in a decade or so. I think Hyundia/Kia, in 15-20 years could be as larger than Honda or even as large as Toyota.
Call it brain damage DrFill, but my gut tells me I'm correct.
-Rocky
They are already larger than Honda worldwide but Honda sells more cars in US. :P
When they release Genesis and RWD coupe, US market will shake at least a little bit, IMO.
I was pretty sure they Hyundai/Kia were larger worldwide, but should of added in the U.S. to avoid the confusion.
-Rocky
Also, it does not look like a luxury sedan.
I even had a dealer tell me people were picking the ES over the GS because of its downsides.
Granted Lexus will have a better ride, re-sell, etc., but the Azera would be a close contender if they could get the suspension corrected.
I drove the ES, GS, etc. several times before forming my opinion. I looked in great detail, read a lot and used lots of research tools.
BTW, I have a Toyota RAV4, had a Camry XLE and placed my sister in a Camry.
The look, the Motor Trend article, the advertising.
Hyundai orchestrated all of that. Bless 'em! They spent the dollars, and took a shot.
And the market has spoken.
Right you are again, Dr..... As pretty as the Azera is, most sales are probably rentals, it's not popping..... I don't think people are anywhere close to considering Hyundai a "status brand", ie; Luxury.
Wow, where have I been - I had no idea the Azera was a RWD car! I'm a Hyundai fan, BTW - but think you're drunk if you can compare any of them to a Lexus - possibly the ES, (which I do not like), but not a GS. Not until Hyundai gets their RWD car out. Then, we can talk again...
I've forgotten that Hyundai is big into fleet, up to 30+% on some models. :surprise:
DrFill